But that's old testament!

[ThomasTrue]

You could also have added that when Christians condemn gays it is the Old Testament that they point to.

The bilebull makes it clear that the Holy Trinity are God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit (aka Big Daddy, Junior and The Spook), and all three are one and the same being. Therefore, Jesus and the god of the Old Testament, by the rules of Christian theology are one and the same being. Therefore, Christians who ignore the Old Testament are hypocrites (well they all are anyway).

[SQuiRR3LM0nk3y]

Jeremiah 31:31-33. Aren't you Christians a part of the new covenant? Suck it OT dodgers.

[dude12nothin]

Good video and good points. I dont know how they watch this and get mad or upset rather then taking the time to think about it. Sad really.

[paidmeat]

Dude - You think because you have a slide show and a webcam you are correct? Jesus is the NEW Testiment Moron he's not dicounted in the OLD testiment he just wasn't "there" yet. Moses spoke of his coming. Just because YOU don't understand it doesn't mean its a "Christian lie" - Tell you what pal...If your right then at the end of your life there wil be Nothing - Zero-Gooseegg - However if I'm right - Your Fucked. Have a nice day jackass.. Liberals! they are the spawn of Stalin and all bad

[malignantpoodle]

It would take an ignorant, uneducated fool such as yourself to believe such things, but I can forgive that because most Christians are ignorant and uneducated, can't spell, can't use grammar, etc.

A slideshow is more than Jesus has. Way more. And that's without considering that I make very humble claims. I win.

Pascal's wager? Ok, a Muslim can make the same argument to you; "if you're right and there is no Allah, there will be nothing. But if there is, you're (not your) fucked".

I win.

[TimCubUAkbar]

Dear malignantpoodle,

I'm glad to see that you're still coming around to YouTube now and again. Your other video, "Blind leading the blind", is anymore the only reference to guideoftheblind's assertion that he loves atheist [sic] and homosexuals. It's true, you do win.

[malignantpoodle]

@Anarchy17SB

Oh, well aren't we so fortunate to have you go around to declare winners and losers of YT comment sections!

[Anarchy17SB]

@malignantpoodle Just trying to save you wasted time in the future =)

[wizard970]

@malignantpoodle According to your book, you cannot forsake one part of it. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". 2 Peter 1:20-21

[bektex]

Nice Christian attitude. Way to win people to Christ. You should be ashamed of your self.

[Devalmont2]

It surprises me that the persons on this thread with the FOULEST mouths are the Christians.

And Christians claim to have some special brand of superior religion, and yet it has no power on them to speak to others with dignity and respect?

[nightw4tchman]

@ Devalmont2. You've not met many have you?

There is a saying that Atheists make better Christians than Christians, it's true trust me.

[Devalmont2]

I've not met many Xtians?

Please .. our nation is 80% Xtian. I think I've met quite a few, and I don't see how much "better" they are than non-Xtians.

[nightw4tchman]

Their values, mainly being nice to each other, see Venomfagx for example and compare him to dprjones. Who would make a better moral person in the eyes of the bible? How many of the ten commandments has vfx broke?

I didn't mean you haven't met any seriously, please... I meant you shouldn't be surprised at the foul language

[MarvelsofaLifetime]

@paidmeat: If it had not been for religion constantly stagnating scientific progress and the development of our moral intuitions and civilization, then you would be living in space right now exploring the billions of worlds in our solar system alone – comets, planets, asteroids, moons, etcetera.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

malignant poodle, you sir have a very bad understanding of the bible and of the correlation between the new and old testament.

In short, you just don't get it.

I can help you w/ that.

[malignantpoodle]

Christians themselves cannot agree. As a matter of fact, it's the most splintered religion with complex factions not present in any other ideology.

But, feel free to debate specific points in the video, which is something you've ignored. You just post the general "you don't understand", rather than taking on specific issues in the video. So, which part is wrong? Christians don't want creationism taught in schools, protest the 10 commandments being removed... what?

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

The Old Testament is not wrong or simply dismissed. It's just that we don't have to be under the curse of the Old Testament anymore, because a new covenant has been made.

Of course, you ARE still under the curse of the old testament, because you refuse to believe in Jesus.

It's like if you're drowning, I throw you a life saver, and you refuse to grab it.

[JimTL1000R]

"the curse" hmmm , well dont worry about me I have a rabbits foot.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

HAHAHA...

no.

[malignantpoodle]

Your statement is only relevant from the perspective of one that believes all of the bible.

I don't really care about why Christians believe more in the NT than the OT. Non-sequitur notions there.

What I'm talking about in this video is how Christians use the OT as the source of their arguments on public policy (creationism, ten commandments, the foundations of marriage, etc), but then turn around to claim the OT "defense" (to say the OT is no longer relevant) whenever criticism of it arises.

[malignantpoodle]

"Of course, you ARE still under the curse of the old testament, because you refuse to believe in Jesus."

Oh if that's the case, then I can still get to heaven by sacrificing animals... unless of course you believed that everyone before Jesus went to hell.

"It's like if you're drowning, I throw you a life saver, and you refuse to grab it."

Already have one, see above.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

IDK if everyone went to hell, but I know no one went to heaven, or better said, everyone was shut off of God's presence.

[malignantpoodle]

Including Enoch?

It appears you haven't thought this thing through.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

oh and the bible doesn't scream out it's legitimacy by saying "I'm real!", you misunderstood.

what I meant was that the bible is so OBVIOUSLY legitimate because of the way that you see it just making prophecies, and you see them being fulfilled later in the bible. We even see prophecies of the end being fulfilled now-a-days. all the time. It's like if you're reading a newspaper.

[malignantpoodle]

Prophecies fulfilled later on in the bible? Many of these prophecies are following OT direction for the purpose of fulfilling prophecy, that's without even taking into account the incredulity of the whole work in the first place.

Circular logic; the bible is real because the bible fulfills prophecy in the bible.

"We even see prophecies of the end being fulfilled now-a-days."

Same thing with Nostradomus; vague predictions with ambiguity meets interpretation with vested interest.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

To begin w/ you are just assuming that the NT writers just wrote things in order to pretend like they were getting fulfilled in the OT. of course, you take this position, because the other position is a very inconvenient one.

btw, NEVER has the world had global warming. NEVER has the world's environment been in the danger it is in today. Famine and hunger have not been as prominent in the past as they are now.

Therefore, if what you're trying to say is that those prophecies could be...

[malignantpoodle]

"To begin w/ you are just assuming that the NT writers just wrote things in order to pretend like they were getting fulfilled in the OT."

What I'm saying is that claiming the bible to be true because the bible says it's true is meaningless and is not evidence.

"btw, NEVER has the world had global warming."

Actually, we have. The earth has consistently fluctuated between hot and cold throughout its history. Manmade global warming is accelerating this however.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

sure, the Earth (according to scientists) has had hot and cold cycles, but never has the atmosphere and ozone layer been in depletion. THIS is what I'm referring to.

[malignantpoodle]

"but never has the atmosphere and ozone layer been in depletion. THIS is what I'm referring to. "

you said,

"btw, NEVER has the world had global warming."

In any case, the bible doesn't describe depletion of the ozone in any fashion, so that's not biblically accurate EITHER.

[rationalmuscle]

// We even see prophecies of the end being fulfilled now-a-days. all the time. It's like if you're reading a newspaper. //

Point out ONE. Just ONE. ONE prophecy that was 'fulfilled' that wasn't equally fulfilled in every generation of man since it was uttered.

I'll wait....

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

let me just start by saying that even though we see the prophecies of the end times vaguely in other generations, the bible doesn't say, "there will NOT be earthquakes until the end. there will NOT be famines and pestilence until the end comes. but when the end comes, all these things will occur."

this is not the case. even though we see these things in all generations, the end will have a concentrations of the aforementioned. it's like noah's ark: there was always sin, but it was in concentr..

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

...ation during his time.

even though there has always been degeneration, never has it been present in the concentration in which it is today.

even though there has been secularism in the past, never has there been a more blatant and directed attack against God in society as today.

older folks talk about how in their day, doors could be left open. we are now in the end, morals degenerate.

back in the day, it was illegal to sell alcohol on sun., and 10 comman's were publicly displayed in...

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

...schools. now, God is being kicked out of every aspect of society. You secularists are telling God to pack up his bags and leave, and he's doing just that. Then things like columbine, teen pregnancies, suicide, gangs, drugs, etc. become problems in schools, and you have the nerve to say, "How could God allow this?" well, you kicked God out, and he respected ur decision. this leads to moral deterioration. soon, no "under God" in pledge. I spoke to my grandpa, never has society been like this.

[malignantpoodle]

He did this with me too. Just talk about a bunch of random shit.

Hey "Witness", I believe you were asked to name one prophecy. Instead you gave three responses that didn't include any.

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

okay, the bible foretells that the jews would regain their land.

this happened after the 2nd world war.

[hoffman164]

@WitnessofTheHolyOne

Texas schools, the most christian funamentalist/conservative states, have the highest rates of teen pregnancies in the whole country. And our country survived just fine until the 50's, when the words under god were inserted into the pledge as a part of the red scare, without those stupid indoctrinating words.

[rationalmuscle]

Hi Witness,

Do you believe that modern attacks on Christians are worse now or worse in regard to history?

Let's start there... thanks.

Trent

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

To start, rejecting the bible doesn't make logical sense. It's ostentatiously screaming out it's validity. Ignoring it is not reasonable.

And the point I'm making is that those people are not contradicting themselves.

You see, in many aspects, the LAW portion of the book of the old testament, is not completely relevant.

For example, the Sabbath and eating swine. Those are rules and laws that God disestablished.

However, that doesn't mean you are ignoring the books in it, like Genesis.

[malignantpoodle]

"To start, rejecting the bible doesn't make logical sense. It's ostentatiously screaming out it's validity. Ignoring it is not reasonable."

Actually, rejecting it makes perfect logical sense. Faith without evidence isn't logical. Screaming out its validity? So does the Koran, and the Communist Manifesto.

"For example, the Sabbath and eating swine. Those are rules and laws that God disestablished."

Oh I see, you have the "pick and choose" version :)

[WitnessofTheHolyOne]

I don't have any pick and choose version.

God told Peter in a vision in the book of Acts "kill and eat".

Jesus healed the sick on the Sabbath.

Paul also told people of his time to stop making Gentiles get circumcised, because they were no longer under the law.

Jesus said you can't put new wine into old wine skins, or both would be ruined.

the new covenant is the new wine and the old wine skin is the old covenant. you can't mix them together.

[malignantpoodle]

"the new covenant is the new wine and the old wine skin is the old covenant. you can't mix them together."

Ok, so you believe in Jesus, but not creationism, marriage, or the ten commandments?

To talk about the new covenant and the diminished relevance of the OT, and then all of the issues Christians push for on public policy are OLD TESTAMENT.

If you believe in creationism, but not killing people that work on the Sabbath, then you DO use the pick and choose version.

[resistanceunion]

Seriously great point ... nice video :)

[myp410up]

Ask any Hebrew speaker to translate "hayah" into English or look up that verb in an elementary Hebrew grammar. To speak authoritatively about the meaning of a text in a language you neither read, write or speak is ill advised. While I'm no expert, I do know much more than you. Besides, this passage isn't a chronology. 1:1-2 form a parenthetical comment, setting the stage for v. 3. Also please read Rashi (if you can) on 1:14. He knew much more Torah than either of us ever will. Peace.

[myp410up]

You obviously have not studied Hebrew whereas I have. I don't rely on translations because I can read the Torah and the commentaries on it in the original. Can you? A LOT of meaning is lost in translation. There is no verb in 1:14 that refers to creation. Since God is "speaking", He must be addressing something already in existence. To create ex nihilo does not require "speech", since there is nothing to address. Insert ".": answers yahoo com/question/index?qid=2007122­5115240AAlEzHB Peace.

[malignantpoodle]

I know Hebrew well enough to see that you can't tell the difference between very simple words that have no ambiguity to them.

"Since God is "speaking", He must be addressing something already in existence."

Wrong, considering that God supposedly speaks things into existence.

[myp410up]

"hayah" is a past tense verb meaning "it/he was". "Yehi" is a jussive implying a command or permission. It does NOT mean "come into being" and this is evident since the verse states the POSITION of the celestial bodies, not that the bodies came into being. The root b-r-a' is used to indicate creation ex nihilo, or in the case of the "taninim", because of their exceptional size. Verse 1:1 clearly indicates that all the celestial bodies were created on the 1st "day". Peace.

[malignantpoodle]

""hayah" is a past tense verb meaning "it/he was"."

Looking at the original text and direct translation...

You're wrong, sorry.

You can even google "hayah Hebrew" and get many sources defining the world. None of them say, "it/he was".

"Verse 1:1 clearly indicates that all the celestial bodies were created on the 1st "day"."

Wrong. It clearly states that the stars were created on day 4, after the earth had plants even.

[myp410up]

Great vid. But a point of clarification, if I may. The Torah (what some refer to as the "old testament") doesn't say that the earth was created first. The first few words in Genesis are "breishis barah elo-him es ha-shamayim v'es ha aretz", which means "in the beginning of... God created the heavens and the earth". The ellipses appears because the adverbial phrase ("breishis") has no complement or object in the original Hebrew. We don't what "beginning" is referred to. Peace.

[malignantpoodle]

It does say it was created before any stars, which came on day 4.

Pretty open and shut falsehood as we know today.

[myp410up]

Not true. You have to read it in the original. It says regarding the sun and moon (1:14) "yehi m'oros birkia hashamayim". "Yehi" = "let there be" does NOT mean they were created at that point, rather there were placed in position. Commentators point out that the untranslatable particle "es" as mentioned in 1:1 alludes to ancillary objects such as the stars and all earth based life, meaning that every object class was created on the 1st "day" but assumed its role over time. Just my $0.02. Peace

[malignantpoodle]

So what you're saying is that everything was created at once? The bible clearly says otherwise, and throughout the bible we see this.

There is a clear order to events of creation. Looking at Blue Letter Bible shows the same thing. I have looked at the original text and there is nothing whatsoever that describes all things being created at once. And neither is this the consensus among any group of biblical scholars.

"Let there be" is "hayah" (phonetically)which means "to come into being".

[DblOSmith]

Exactly! Ihate that "old testament" argument. They don't realize they're throwing out all their other evidence with it? Ugh.

Great vid.

[COMALiteJ]

If it hadn't been for the Dark Ages, we would likely have colonized other solar systems by now. Not to mention having cured most diseases.

[resistanceunion]

YEah especialy most effort at that time was too block science copernicus and others and raging wars against other religions.

[BattleshipTx]

The whole book of Galatians explains in detail that Christians don't have to keep the laws that apllied to Israel. That doesn't mean we don't read and respect the OT, just that its laws were applicable to Israel, not to Christians.

[malignantpoodle]

...and that makes the OT less absurd, silly, and unlikely how?

[BattleshipTx]

The OT has some of the greatest lessons and stories ever told. But if you are worried about the diameter of the mouth of the fish that swallowed Jonah, you won't understand the lesson that you can't run away from your responsibilities. Or worried about who Cain married, you won't learn the lesson about jealousy it was meant to teach. Or Noah and how to stand up to ridicule and peer pressure. David and Goliath and overconfidence, etc. Ditch the poison attitude you start with, and learn something.

[malignantpoodle]

You really think the countless absurdities and the barbaric nature of Christians and God in the old testament that I'm referring to have anything to do with those examples you mentioned?

I was a Christian for 20 years. I ditched THAT attitude, and am a lot better off, thanks.

[BattleshipTx]

the barbaric nature of Christians and God in the old testament"

Hunh? Christians didn't exist in the Old Testament. It was written long before Christ's birth. The OldTtestament was about the nation of Israel. Mostly set in the bronze age, where Israel was surrounded by enemies and the world was a rough place. The fact that the Bible doesn't sanitize how bad it was back then is one of its strengths. You want it to pretend the bronze age was all sweetness and nice on Earth?

[malignantpoodle]

Yahweh. Same God that Christians believe in today, and then of course same God that the majority of Christians believe that Jesus is of one and the same.

It's not that we expect bronze age sweetness, but that the God in question was no more forward thinking than the backwards people that followed him. Quite obvious that such a barbaric, selfish, jealous, and insecure God could be none other than the product of the attitudes of the time. Fiction, from bronze age perspectives.

[arcooke]

Awesome video, thanks!

[anarchyclayman]

well said

[KeyNesew]

Literal interpretation of the Bible appeared after 16th Century protestantism. Even by the 5th Century AD, we see a clear metaphorical interpretation of the Bible, instead of a litteral one.

Which make creationists more backwards than High Middle Ages thinkers.

[malignantpoodle]

Well we can debate that. Let's put it this way; the position of organized Christianity was that of a literal interpretation in regard to its stances on public policy. The geocentric model, a young earth, creationism (from dust), these were all the very widely accepted positions based on literal interpretation. They still exist as well, but they do not enjoy the solidarity that they once did.

[PiNGGTGTGTG]

great vid, nice job.

[REDBAG99]

Well said...hit the mark. 5 stars.