Ha, you will find those kinds of verses ALL through scripture! It's inescapable. The thing is that when classical theists approach texts like this they've already made up their mind that God cannot change his mind and that he must know all things exhaustively. But anyone can see that when you approach ANYTHING with your mind already made up about it, you're bound to be unfair in your judgement, and here, your interpretation.
He can throw "Sola Scriptura" out the door at this point
@fractalfires God is like the producer,writer & director of a movie,He has the whole movie in His mind and He directs the cast to preform exactly as the movie should be,there's no improvising in God's production either.Open Theism is just one more excuse for man to not believe in the God of the Bible.
I would contend that the premise of your comment is not biblical, but rather admittedly philosophical. There is nothing harmful about it unless it contradicts scripture.
Assuming he is like an author of a book is to already assume he knows the end.
On the side: not all "authors" (as the example suggests) know the end of their story from the beginning.
What's different here is that God is intimately involved with the very outworking of the plot, being fully omnipotent in his activity.
@DanPrinMan God does know the end from the beginning and everything in between.God does everything for His Glory alone,men's salvation is done by Him alone to glorify Himself.
Ordain1. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) to consecrate (someone) as a priest; confer holy orders upon
2. (may take a clause as object) to decree, appoint, or predestine irrevocably
3. (may take a clause as object) to order, establish, or enact with authority
God has ordered and established what the future will be,so He's not merely observing the future beforehand,He's causing it to be as it is,everything is happening as God has planned that it would.
@seanpaynedotnet Amen, Obviously the danger of open theism is that it strips away God's power and attributes,until he’s a cute, little purring kitten.Open Theism says God makes mistakes and that the future could change if God didn't guess right.I hope these O.T. aren't depending on this god to save them,how can they even know? He might just change his mind after having a bad day and send everybody to Hell.LOL
Open Theists don't believe "God has gaps in His knowledge". They believe that God knows everything that can be known ie that He is omniscient. The dispute over 'the nature of the future'. Is the future at least partially Open to the choice of free will creatures. Open Theists believe it is. Hence, God (or any being for that matter), can't know the future in fixed terms because the nature of the future isn't fixed. Like God making square circles. He can't because of the nature of circles.
proverb 16:4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil
This one vs(of course there are others too,)makes it clear,God makes what He make for specific purposes,He made the wicked for the day of evil and all who follow the beast will do so because their names weren't put into the Lamb's book of Life before time began Rev 13:8 and 17:8.God knew those HE would save before creation and those who wouldn't saved,So God did make a group exclusively for hell.
@CBALLEN 2Peter 3 :9 is a perfect example of Arminian misunderstanding.Peter tells us that the Lord is being patience with us or you ,not wanting any of us or you to perish ,meaning believers alone,it means those in that time and also all believers of the future.Why would God be waiting on goats to come to Christ when God has already known before time that they aren't the elect that He chose to save?
@colinb890
I'm glad you've been open minded about it. I can agree that it has put a lot of things at rest for me as well.
DanPrinMan 4 months ago
@fractalfires
Ha, you will find those kinds of verses ALL through scripture! It's inescapable. The thing is that when classical theists approach texts like this they've already made up their mind that God cannot change his mind and that he must know all things exhaustively. But anyone can see that when you approach ANYTHING with your mind already made up about it, you're bound to be unfair in your judgement, and here, your interpretation.
He can throw "Sola Scriptura" out the door at this point
DanPrinMan 4 months ago
@fractalfires
Couldn't agree more.
DanPrinMan 4 months ago
@fractalfires God is like the producer,writer & director of a movie,He has the whole movie in His mind and He directs the cast to preform exactly as the movie should be,there's no improvising in God's production either.Open Theism is just one more excuse for man to not believe in the God of the Bible.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@CBALLEN
I would contend that the premise of your comment is not biblical, but rather admittedly philosophical. There is nothing harmful about it unless it contradicts scripture.
Assuming he is like an author of a book is to already assume he knows the end.
On the side: not all "authors" (as the example suggests) know the end of their story from the beginning.
What's different here is that God is intimately involved with the very outworking of the plot, being fully omnipotent in his activity.
DanPrinMan 4 months ago
@DanPrinMan God does know the end from the beginning and everything in between.God does everything for His Glory alone,men's salvation is done by Him alone to glorify Himself.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
Ordain1. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) to consecrate (someone) as a priest; confer holy orders upon
2. (may take a clause as object) to decree, appoint, or predestine irrevocably
3. (may take a clause as object) to order, establish, or enact with authority
God has ordered and established what the future will be,so He's not merely observing the future beforehand,He's causing it to be as it is,everything is happening as God has planned that it would.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@colinb890 I think you made some interesting points
FuroraCeltica 10 months ago
@fractalfires that is a very interesting perspective
FuroraCeltica 10 months ago
@colinb890 the whole OT debate is very complex
FuroraCeltica 11 months ago
Amen open theism is damnable heresy.
seanpaynedotnet 11 months ago
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@seanpaynedotnet Amen, Obviously the danger of open theism is that it strips away God's power and attributes,until he’s a cute, little purring kitten.Open Theism says God makes mistakes and that the future could change if God didn't guess right.I hope these O.T. aren't depending on this god to save them,how can they even know? He might just change his mind after having a bad day and send everybody to Hell.LOL
CBALLEN 5 months ago
Open Theists don't believe "God has gaps in His knowledge". They believe that God knows everything that can be known ie that He is omniscient. The dispute over 'the nature of the future'. Is the future at least partially Open to the choice of free will creatures. Open Theists believe it is. Hence, God (or any being for that matter), can't know the future in fixed terms because the nature of the future isn't fixed. Like God making square circles. He can't because of the nature of circles.
timthemartin 1 year ago
@timthemartin
You'd like David Basinger.
DanPrinMan 4 months ago
proverb 16:4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil
This one vs(of course there are others too,)makes it clear,God makes what He make for specific purposes,He made the wicked for the day of evil and all who follow the beast will do so because their names weren't put into the Lamb's book of Life before time began Rev 13:8 and 17:8.God knew those HE would save before creation and those who wouldn't saved,So God did make a group exclusively for hell.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN 2Peter 3 :9 is a perfect example of Arminian misunderstanding.Peter tells us that the Lord is being patience with us or you ,not wanting any of us or you to perish ,meaning believers alone,it means those in that time and also all believers of the future.Why would God be waiting on goats to come to Christ when God has already known before time that they aren't the elect that He chose to save?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN
My reply was entirely to lengthy. I will send it as a message. You opened up a can of worms mentioning Proverbs 16.
DanPrinMan 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DanPrinMan "My reply was entirely to lengthy. I will send it as a message. You opened up a can of worms mentioning Proverbs 16."
There's a whole lot more where that came from.
CBALLEN 4 months ago