The Holt Bill is a Poison Pill

[rt3253]

Very good post. Secrecy is evil. Too many bad/unjust laws are passed simply because they were slipped into this bill or that. We need simple straightforward laws, answers to our questions and politicians need to be held accountable. This nation is screwed. However, I will contact my reps and insist that we do not pass this Holt Bill at all. It is FULL of RADICAL-SOCIALIST laws that BASH our liberties. Holt is a maniac and should be thrown out of office. God, NJ people drinking the" Koolaid"?

[pandabead]

That is ok this was snuck into the stimulus package. we are screwed

[lukekobilan]

No cheaters! Yaya!

[crackaline]

right on! no secret vote counting!

[NAIParty]

newamericanindependent dot com

[emmalina12345]

--Dennis Kucinich took away his co-sponsorship of the Holt bill after it came out of Committee badly flawed.

--Passing the present Holt Bill will validate secret vote counts and produce only "sales receipt" paper trails.

--The only solution, the totally cost-free one, is to eliminate the touch-screen machines in their entirety.

[TheBRADBLOG]

Foilhatter - Wish you knew what you were talking about. The meltdown will be worse than ever in '08 if HR 811 passes. But more insidiously, you may or may not know it.

If you're willing to give your vote away to unverifiable secret vote counting with electronic ballots, it's only your democracy your throwing away.

[TheBRADBLOG]

(and finally...)

It's not about hand-counting. It's about having a paper ballot -- one that is actually tabulated -- for every vote cast.

HR 811 does nothing of the kind. No matter how much nonsense folks who ought to know better will keep telling you in order to get their bill passed.

Shame on them.

[foilhatter]

First, always check the website for a pay pal button or credit card donation button, then weigh what is being said with a grain of thought.

Second, DRE or optical scan, it is the ballot image or digital interpretation of the scanned ballot that is counted, not the ballot itself. So is Brad going to advocate that the country switch to hand counted paper ballots? Since thats a no go for congress? But always remember, buy the book and please don't think for yourself.

[TheBRADBLOG]

(continued...)

To paraphrase PamVV: "You may not be too stupid to read the bill, but you may be stupid enough to be fooled by her and Holt's wholly and completely, scientifically inaccurate statements like PamVV's above.

[TheBRADBLOG]

(continued...)

Support this bill as written if you want. That is, if you support the ideas of a vote on a DRE which is physical impossible for any human being to verify before the vote is cast and counted (as required by the Help America Vote Act, btw.)

But at least, tell the truth about it. PamVV above did not do so. She continued the disinformation that Holt's office and People for the American Way (PFAW) have been perpetrating about this bill.

That is simply reprehensible.

[TheBRADBLOG]

(continued...)

HR811 will allow touchscreen DREs forever. Yes, they will require a "paper trail" (which he calls a ballot) but that trail is never counted on Election Night, only the internal, unverifiable numbers on the DREs. And after Election Night, 97% of those paper trails will NEVER be counted either (though, in some rare cases, only 90% of them will go uncounted.)

[foilhatter]

None of the optical scan ballots are counted. They are fed into the machine. The ballot is scanned, a digital image or record is created, and then that digital record is counted.

[TheBRADBLOG]

That's correct. And if there are any questions (as there should be, no matter what), we at least will know that there is a voter verified paper BALLOT for every vote cast. Not possible with a DRE.

[TheBRADBLOG]

Yes. Read the bill yourself. And in it -- if you are able to get past Holt's deceptive use of the words "paper ballots" when he actually means "paper trails or receipts" which are never counted, you'll find that the bill is a shameful scam as currently written.

PamVV incorrect reported above that "HR811 requires voter-verified paper ballots, not 'receipts' + e-voting machines. It bans paperless computerized voting.

She is 100% wrong.

[foilhatter]

the optical scan paper ballot isn't counted. It is scanned by the optical scanner and converted into a digital representation of the ballot. It is the digital representation that is counted.

[TheBRADBLOG]

That's correct. And if there are any questions (as there should be, no matter what), we at least will know that there is a voter verified paper BALLOT for every vote cast. Not possible with a DRE.

[andinovick]

"Find out just what the people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress" Frederick Douglas

[foilhatter]

The Holt Bill is a Poison Pill for Mark Crispen Miller's bank account. Same goes for some of these other "snake oil" salesmen. If HR 811 passed, there wouldn't be a gigantic meltdown in 2008 and book sales will go down. Don't let anyone tell you what to think, read the bill for yourself.

[joebeone]

This is pretty naive. Many of the academics involved in disclosure issues in e-voting recognize that we should eventually be in a place where something close to full disclosure is the reality. However, we can't just flip a switch and disclose source code publicly... similarly, we can't just get rid of the machines. The political and pratical reality requires compromise and HR811 does a very good job in this respect. We know that incremental improvements are a very good thing.

[PamVV]

HR811 requires voter-verified paper ballots, not "receipts" + e-voting machines. It bans paperless computerized voting. HR811 funds states to replace e-voting machines with paper ballot systems. You're not too stupid to read the bill; read it, or basic provisions pdf at least, at Holt's website.

Software disclosure clause was the strongest achievable in this committee.

Last year's hand-count paper ballot bill got no support; was not re-introduced.

[TheBRADBLOG]

"HR811 requires voter-verified paper ballots, not "receipts" + e-voting machines" No. Unfortunately, that's what it says, but it's not what it does, by any means. Only "receipts" are required. An electronic vote is cast and counted on a DRE and can never be verified by any human being. That's with or without a "paper trail" as required by Holt.

[conquip]

Thank you Mark for explaining the basic issues so well. I urge everyone who views this to pass it on to your email lists, incluidng friends and family. Then call or write your Congressperson.

[kroses]

Our system of elections is as scary as hell! In fact our entire government is scary as hell! We must replace them all!

[lenaw70]

WELL said. I am adding this video to my website djlenaDOTcom right now.