So it may have done - but what about landing? (Also needed a drag 'chute which needed repacking). Impractical in a combat zone / airfield. TSR = Tactical Strike Reconaissance. It would have been a superb long range Recon aircraft, but would have been a liability in other roles. To be a true success, it needed to be more versatile. The retard is the person who feels the need to resort to insults...
@ThadYaltis dick turd! full blown flaps helped make the tsr2 a STOL aircraft you retarded badger!!! ffs read up on it! your way out of your depth douchebag.
Im a fuckin expert..
Whats a dragchute got to do with anything??
TSR = Tactical Strike Recon?!?!?! REALLY??? Look up XR219!!!
This plane was created by the british, then the americas liked the idea of a 'supersonic strike aircraft' and offered us help to build it.
Once the Amerifags got hold of the plans, they took what they thought was a great idea, and created there own aircraft (f111)..
Stupid Amerifags couldnt get the blown flaps to work and decided rather than trying to fix the problem, they'd start again thus why the F111 had sweeping wings.
Americans cant engineer, They can steal ideas real good though
I used to know a chap who worked on the TSR2 project, and he said that at the time they thought that it was actually cancelled for several reasons; firstly, it needed a long runway, and these were thought to be a weakness due to missile technology being developed by the Eastern bloc countries. Secondly, the Hawker P1127 (Harrier) was becoming a reality (thus eliminating the need for runways). Thirdly, the McDonnell Douglas F4 Phantom was on the table as a serious alternative. Shame really.
@binaway Well Lockheed Bribed West-Germany to buy just a handful of the F-104G, & in fact with each Aircraft being worth Millions of Pounds 24 is actually quite a lot, plus almost all initial orders are of such numbers.
If Bombers really were that vulnerable in the 60's the Tornado would never have been built.
That & the Mirage IV was Inferior to the Vulcan & the Valiant B2, so buying that Plane would have been a really Stupid move
(EVEN more Stupid than Cancelling TSR-2 for the F-111K was).
It certainly was a gorgeous aircraft and ahead of its time but was it as good as we all think? I mean it was designed for low level attack yet that wing seems pretty small for low level, or have I got it wrong? Sad none the less, interesting that the tail end looks like the Tornado.
Apparently later production versions would have had variable pitch rectangular intakes similar to the tornado or F-15. That would have looked awesome!
Folks: I know you're pissed at America for this, and rightfully so, but please remember, other than Duncan Sandys being on the take from Lockheed corp, PM Harold Wilson was a Soviet Agent, and that's why both the U.K. and Canada where lead into destroying all their beautiful things!
You did a really great tribute animation, in lieu opf what Sonicboom put forth, which i believe was deleted (thanks for nothing youboob!). And I really like the what should be video as well, I just think you should've squeezed more weapons onto the wings and fuesilage!
What 'should' have ben rather than 'could' perhaps?
I think one aspect behind domestic American pressure to kill the TSR.2 was that just like the Americans had chosen the Canberra over the B-51 (which they did an admirable job of modifying into the B-57), they would really have seriously considered cancelling the F-111 and going for the TSR.2 Eagle.
Under pressure the UK not only killed the TSR.2, it killed its aviation industry like the Canadians killed theirs with the Arrow.
If only the Yankee's had done just that (bought the "BAC TSR-2 Eagle" instead of just playing dirty in order to keep their own Less capable "F-111 Raven" from being out competed by her), they would have got a massively superior Plane a lot sooner than F-111 & (ironically) cheaper overall than it too.
It is quite disturbing how similar the fates of TSR-2 & the "AVRO-C Arrow" were/are, dispite that the Arrow was almost 10 years before TSR-2 & a Fighter-Interceptor.
@TSR1989FF The Yanks played dirty, and they did use the IMF loan Britain was seeking to pay for its bloated welfare state as leverage. However, we shouldn't overlook the role spectacularly piss poor project management played in the disaster. Sadly, considering the farce that was the Nimrod MR.4 programme and such, the British arguably still haven't learnt their lesson. I think it's entirely feasible to say that British failures merely allowed the French and Germans to walk in and take its place.
@AntelopeUHA i agree with you politicians certainly played a huge part in the disgusting episode i believe the project manedgement were hugely responsable too.
despite all the crap that was going on the engineers (ie what britain does best) produced what wouldve almost certainly brilliant and world beating airplane (not to mention very very beautiful).
the yanks were deffinately worried about it because it was better than the f111 but i dont know that they had any real input in the tsr2s demise
@eatthisvr6 Considering Australia was the only export customer for the F111 and the RAAF order was only for 24 aircraft I don't think what the Americans wanted played much part in the cancellation. I think the creation of the SLBM and vulnerability of RAF bases to the Soviet ICBM force made the TSR2 obsolete. A smaller TSR2, ie the Tornado or Mirage IV would have made more sense together with the Polaris system.
@binaway yep but success would have generated orders. great success would have generated even more. it would have totally wiped the floor with the f111 and the americans knew it. The f111 came in even more expensive than the TSR 2. Its the way the project was TOTALLY erased which leaves a bad smell. We were after a loan from the IMF at the time and the USA were needed on board for the thumbs up for it. I believe that they arm twisted and the project was lost. Typical USA IMHO.
It's been a few days since i was last here but this Yank's Ageist Blabbering is even more stupid than i remember (the only worse example being that spammer).
@Choxster1 It seems your propensity for Inaccuracy & wild assumation are the same as always then.
If you bothered to check before you babble (something obviously beyond your limited IQ) you'd know that Apache & I are unrelated as Y.T. Users (exept from being Friends) GESU-BAKA.
WARNING ALL VIEWERS. (For your own well being & to safeguard the Truth of this subject)
Their is a Spammer on this Video called "Choxter1" who has been spreading false Infomation about
the "BAC TSR-2 Eagle" Interdictor & the Event's surrounding Her Contriversial Demise.
The "TSR Foundation" has no tolerance for Spammers with reguards to this Aircraft & Her Fatefully Short History & will track down & Reprimand those who do Anything of the Kind.
No idea who the person below is. For the information of the more intelligent readers of this thread, he is of course talking nonsense.
As I said previously, if you want to read the truth about this subject, buy my book, or get it from the library? Far better than reading endless rubbish from people who patently haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
@Choxster1 "Everything you say... Like Glue... Sticks back to you"
"Counter Conspiracist's" like you are a Disgrace who will do anything to Flog a quick Debunking of Historical Fact (just like the Tabloid's do to sell their cheap Rag's).
The ""Truth"" as you put it is the Utter Nonsense here, Not I.
Next time you try this kind of Scam don't do so with someone who's Studied this Subject a great deal more than you ever have.
I Think you should quit while you're behind Fraudster.
The F-111 wasn't a competitor. There was no serious prospect of either aircraft being exported to anyone other than Australia. Australia bought F-111 because they wanted to be politically tied to the US (this is stated in Government papers).
Warhead design had no influence on TSR2 at all and never did. It was designed to carry Red Beard and subsequently WE.177.
By the time that TSR2 was cancelled, the RAF had decided that they didn't want it.
As has been said, if you want to read the true story of TSR2, have a look at my book. There are endless myths and bogus stories about TSR2 (some repeated on this thread) and they're all nonsense I'm afraid.
The real story isn't as mysterious or exciting. I was delighted to rectify so many misconceptions so that the subject can now be discussed without so many false assumptions... although I fear the myths will continue to be perpetuated. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story...
@Choxster1 Since your "Statement" is riddled with Blatent ERRORS about the TSR-2 Programme
(which i have studied for years) i find your claim about having the ""True story of TSR-2"" to be a load of Hogwash.
This has to be the worst form of Plugging i've ever seen (at least it explains the Misconseptions "Liverpool Scottish" had when i first met him, having been yours in origin).
Don't come here again whoever you are as the "TSR Foundation" will Weed out your Rubbish werever it appears.
I've always loved the TSR.2, my dad worked on XR220 back in the 60's and still has his TSR.2 tie that the engineering team were given. I wore it to school a few years back and the technology teacher saw it and asked where I'd got it from, when I told him my dad had worked on it he started telling the rest of the class about it. A few years ago we went to Cosford and my dad saw "his" TSR.2 which he thought had been scrapped. Got a photo of him standing in front of it in the front room.
My Congratulations this is One of the Best "BAC TSR-2 Eagle" Interdictor Tributes i have Ever seen, (& I've seen a Great many so far)
Out of Curiousity Where did you source this Fantastic C.G.I. Footage?
I'm Planning to Make a Tribute of my own as soon as My Computer Upgrades are Completed & The More Material the Better since their is Limited Test Footage of
The TSR-2,
Anyone Reading this who would like to see TSR-2's "XR220" or "XR222" Surrviving Planes Restored Don't Hesitate to Respond.
such a fantastic plane that was murdered by the government it even looked fantastic. if it had entered service the raf woulve had the best interceptor on earth (lightning) and the best low level bomber too it was supposed to be even better than the tornado which was 15-20 later!!
oh and it could run away from a lightning with engine engine in reheat i doubt any other fighter or bomber could manedge that before or since!!
thank fuck the ira blew mountbatten up,before he could open his mouth and do anymore damage to this country,the german prick.maybe he was upset because his missus was shagged by a paki...LOL
@junkman19571 I agree wholeheartedly, bar the last point. Nehru was Indian.
Mountbatten had a sidekick though, and that was Solly Zuckerman, the 'Scientific Adviser' to the government who did what ever it took to slag the TSR.2 off at every opportunity. What did he know about the subject? Nothing. He was a zoologist.
@AntelopeUHA Mountbatten Had Nothing Personal against the
"BAC TSR-2 Eagle" Interdictor he was just Dead Set on Saving
The Plans to build Replacment's for the Ageing Centaur & Audatious Class Carriers
(which That Worthless Burk Wilson would also Kill off) & Was prepaired to do anything To Insure that (The Planned Class had the same name as the New Carriers being built now Ironically)
Mountbatten Was a Great Man & was in part to Thank for Booting Wilson out in 1974 (By threat of Army Coup).
@TSR1989FF Sorry, WRONG! Mountbatten went out of his way to undermine th TSR 2 project. MB was instrumental in killing off Australian interest as a potential purchaser of TSR 2. He implied to the Australian's that "enthusiasm for the project came mostly from the manufacturer rather than the customer," ie the British Gov. He emphasised it's 'huge' cost compared to Polaris subs. MB's biographer stated, " MB pushed his campaign against TSR2 to the limit of the scrupulous, some would say beyond it."
Mountbatten (Who had served with Distinction in the Navy During WWII) Was Dedicated to Keeping the Royal Navy in good Health by Insuring She Continued to Get as much of the Defence Budget as Possible (As She had always Done), Besides the Tactical Strike Role that The
"BAC TSR-2 Eagle" was Intended,She was a Gifted Low Level Interdictor in the Conventional role as well, Plus (as the Name imply's) Was designed for Recon.
@TSR1989FF In Conclusion Mountbatten was Determend to Do everything in his Power to Save the Royal Navy from the Cut's that would have Crippled her (& He's to thank for getting Wilson Booted out in 1974 by threatening Him that if he did not Resign he would Face a Military Coup [The Only Known example of the Army Planning to Overthrow the Goverment])
@TSR1989FF Sorry, read Tim McLelland's latest book on TSR 2, he completely demolishes many of the conspiracy myths surrounding the demise of TSR2. Whilst it is true that MB wanted to ensure money was available to build new carriers for the RN, and that he was anti-TSR 2, his actual influence was next to ZERO. McLelland's book reveals the truth and he shreds the theory that the US was behind it's demise.
The U.S. Had it's Grubby little Fingers in Just about every Pie you could imagine,
They weren't just a Factor Behind TSR-2's Demise,(Of Many) But the "Miles-52" Supersonic Test Aircraft (Which Unlike the Bell X-1 Was Powered by a All British Jet Engine giving unto it a Top Speed of over 1000MPH & could Take off & land Under Her own Power). And the "Saunders Roe SR177"(A Interceptor Inspired by the WWII German "Komet" ....T.B.C.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH ... The SR-177 Was to be Sold to the West German Airforce in the 1960's... But then quite Suddenly the Germans Changed their Minds &
Accepted a Offer from the U.S. For a Modified "F104 Starfighter" (The "F104G")
Which as any Well Versed Areonautical Historian Knows.. Was a Miserable Failure in this Form, (The Number of German Pilots Killed in Accidents with the F104G Became quite a Scandal in later Years & Questions are still asked to this day as to what the Motive was for..
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH ... Buying an Aircraft (& sticking with it for quite some time) that was clearly Unsuited to the Role of which was Required of it by the Germans when far more Suited Aircraft Had been offered (Of which the SR-177 Was the Front Runner).
I am not Someone who has time For Conspiracy Theorys, But the Most likley Reason for the Abrupt Cancelation of the Miles-52, The Germans Taking on the F104G, & The Cancelation of TSR-2 Is U.S.Financal "Insentive's" & Treatening like in Suez.
@TSR1989FF Sorry, I don't understand your point, other than the fact that you acknowledge that MB's main concern lay with securing/ring fencing funds for the RN. Even his own biographer has stated that his conduct re TSR 2 bordered on the "unscrupulous." It is rumoured that MB had playing cards made up, one with the TSR 2 on, and five with a Buccaneer on. He would lay them on the table & state, "You can have five of these (Buccaneer), for everyone of these- TSR2."
Beside's The Primary Factors in TSR-2's are as such, 1:The Limitation by Macmillan (One of the Worst Conservative Leaders in the Whole of History) of the Warhead Size of all British Nuclear Weapons (Which Proved a Headache for the Armed Forces for years & was a Considerable Setback for the TSR-2)
2:The U.S.'s "F-111 Raven/Ardvark" Interdictor, Which was in Direct Competition with Her but Further away from Completion & the U.S. Knew it.
@TheIceman567 If someone turned up & started spreading Nonsense about something you cared about would you find it acceptable??
No i don't thimk so.
Besides this Foolish Fopp is going to be massively outnumbered before long by better informed & far less Restrained users than i so the outcome is enevitably in my favour in any case. Anyway Why are you on a page that is obviously of no interest to you anyway??
@TSR1989FF Wow? Now you can talk for me you really are a nerd. Like i said get a life and a girlfriend. Because all you're doing is bad mouthing. I liked the Tsr2. But one fact for it's down fall was cost. And i was in the USMC fought next to British troops. You you're nothing more then a keyboard Warrior.
@TSR1989FF Yeah I do know. But you never were in the field nothing more then a Nerdy Keyboard Warrior. Only way you know how to fight is on Youtube and and to make allies on Youtube 100% Nerd.
In my Country only the base Working Class Commoners call anyone a "Nerd" so that say's a lot about you then doesn't it?
Besides have you ever seen me use Base Language? No i didn't think so.
Plus as i made Very clear my training (& many others) was cut short by the Defence Cuts & we were told to Re-apply at a later date when the number of new Recruits needed Inproves.
I for one can wait for now, Since i have Stable Interim Employment.
@TSR1989FF So meaning till then you are nothing more then a Keyboard warrior. And stupid i was on a base before i went to Iraq in '03 and worked with the RIR and RMC. So when you were still a glem in your father's eye i was in combat.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 3: The "Spiraling Costs" (which were more to do with Under-Estimation & inaccuratcy by the Goverment rather than anything Attributable to the Aircraft Herself.
4:Zukerman, Who Was the Primary Factor Behind the Campaign to Slander the TSR-2 & a Utterly Odious Little Pen Pushing Creep it has to be said (then again their are plenty of those.. In The Tax Office. (Laugh)
5: The Labourites. Aguably the Largest (& Worst) Factor of all since it was them who Had "XR-119" Destroyed.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH In Conclusion... I'm a Ardent TSR-2 Entusiast & have Studied Her ever since I Discovered Her in a Airfix Catalog Years Ago,
After all... My User & Foundation Name wasn't Chosen at Random, The
"British Aircraft Corperation Tactcal Strike/Reconnaissance -2 Eagle" (To Give Her Her full Hame) Is A Shining Example of The Finest of British Engineering &
of why we can Never Trust The U.S. (Anymore than we can trust Labourites with Defence Spending or the French as Allies in war).
@TSR1989FF "why we can Never Trust The U.S" Jesus you are stupid if it wasn't for the USMC the Harrier GR1 wouldn't be in service in the RAF. There is your trust.
@TheIceman567 Besides explain your sudden failure to honour your agreement to Mutually Share your Areospace Technology with us in the late 1940's once we'd given you all of ours.
2: The Backstabbing in Suez in 1956.
3:That the last Anglo-American war was in 1911 (over the Remains of the Spanish Empire in the Carribean).
4:That after WWI & till 1922 All British War Planning was made with the US as the Enemy.
you can check that & there is both Document's & Historian's own statement's as Proof.
@TSR1989FF Oh my god really? There were no shots fired in 1911 retard. The Suez was your own damn fault you tried keeping your Empire but you failed to see see how the world didn't support it anymore stupid. And even to today Britain is nothing more then the 51st state of America. And again you changed the facts that i was talking about your service to the past. What a sad nerd you really are.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH No if it wasn't more the USMC the Harrier wouldn't exist! fact in the 1960's British government didn't have the money for it the USMC like the fact that it didn't need a runway and put money into it and even made the first 2 seater.
@TheIceman567 Wrong. The US played NO role in the initial development of the Harrier, it was an entirely British project- HAWKER SIDDELEY. The US bought the Harrier & then embarked on developing it further. The genius behind the concept was British. The British even made the mediocre P-51 into the superb escort fighter that it became. Rolls Royce engineers threw the aesthmatic Allison engine out, modifed the airframe & slotted the British Merlin in. The British even named it 'Mustang.' lol
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The Us did play a role i think you should read about it before you comment on it. The RAF was broke in the 60's it liked the harrier idea but didn't have them money. Read about you fool.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Don't mind "Ice for brains" he's just like that, the "Hawker-Siddeley Harrier" (Like the
"EE Canberra" [which the Yank's also bought ]) is a ALL BRITISH Plane & they could do to remember that.
The 1960's "GT40 Supercar" is also British (Designed & Built by "LOLA Racing Cars" of Cambridgeshire BEFORE Ford & Ferrari fell out to begin with, she was the winner of the subsiquent Competition Ford held to find a Ferrari beater for
I'm Of Irish Decent (Stretching back 800 Years before the Troubles even Existed) & the I.R.A. Are just a Load of Republican, Murdering Scumbags who deserve Nothing more than the Sharp end of A SA-80 Assault Rifle, If Not for the Libyan & U.S. Arm's & Explosive's they were fed for Years they would Have Been Exterminated for Good & my Ancestral Homeland would be a Better Place for it.
Leave the Base Language out or just Keep your Mouth Shut.
We could not have afforded the TSR.2. We should have built it as a tech demostrater. The Blackburn Bucaneer should have been brought from the beginning for both the FAA and the RAF. A Joint Force Bucaneer (JFB), perhaps?
@ConciseOxford100 We could have built it. it was just our government was under extreme pressure to cancel it from the US Government. The americans were scared we had made something better and tried to force us into ordering the F111 instead.
I keep watching this video, even though it brings tears to my eyes when I think of how we (Uk) gave SO much of our aviation industry away. We could have been first to Mach 1 with the M.52, Investigated swing wing during WW2 but gave it away, gave away the jet engine, gave up on the TSR.2, which would have been the most awesome low level strike aircraft ever to see service.
@sagacix Didn't you think with the title "what it could have been " should have given a hint , unless you thought he made one and then fly it around .
My dad flew the F-111. The fastest anyone ever got it was an australian pilot in the US for training. His name was Andy Pellequin, and he achieved 1463 KTAS 200 ft off the deck in death valley california in an F-111. That's the fastest low level speed ive ever heard of officially or unofficially.
no it wasn't it was the new goverment in the uk at the time decide that it wasordered under the old govement that it would make them look like idenitysthat a plane like that was under the pervious people incharge
People who Denegrate this Beautifull & Reverlutional Aircraft
(eg"Jers59" [or Jarhead59 to be more Accurate])
Do Not even Deserve to be Feeling the Same Flow of Time or Breathing The same Air as Decent Hard Working Terran's (Humans)[That said The U.S. is also the Second Largest Polluter of our Planet so their Air Quality must be Truly Disgusting]
Our Aviation Industry Never Truly Recovered from TSR-2's Axing or
the Saunders-Roe SR-177 Interceptor (Also the US's Fault)
Brilliant video of the TSR2. Ongoing in-service development would have kept it in the forefront of modern military aviation well into the 1990's - had it entered service.
A complete TSR2 - XR222 - is also displayed at RAF Duxford museum.
the tsr2 was a great aircraft intended to fly at supersonic speeds at 50 feet. pity the programme cost too much but the odd thing was all airframes and jigs were destroyed which leads to to conspiracy that the americans were scared of it and did not want it to go into production incase the russians got hold of it
The truth is, and it was explained very clearly at the time (I was there, I remember!) is that, while no one doubted the technical excellence of the plane, and its potential, Britain just could not afford the development costs.
The main fear for the West was thousands of tanks rumbling in from the USSR. There was no money in post-war Britain for this "cherry on the cake" and other similar projects.
I might be talking through my arse but from what I gather about this plane, the development of cruise missiles ,Concord, HUD,s and even the PC would have been retarded! I,m not an aviation nurd, so could someone with a bit of nouse tell me , is this so?
Love to see that these possibilities in FS are real in some viewing angels, I'm carrying away, is did see in the 70's and 80's the last of the cold war planes fading away, sadly but true. I have them still on photo and here on You Tube we and other enthousiasts can still see them flying. Please more footage.......... let all video of the past come to us.
Where the hell do you get these planes from and those beautiful markings.........!
TSR.2 might have entered service before 1970, (avionics could have been an issue here), P.1154 unlikely to be operational before the early/mid 70's, assuming problems were not insurmountable, HS.681, doubtful to be in service before the C-130's were.
And coming along was the Jaguar, what would become the Tornado and the Hawk.
The 1957 White Paper made the situation in 1964/65 inevitable. Someone had to resolve it, even if the economy had been in better shape that in actually was.
I remember a reference to 138 RAF TSR-2's, what the Treasury (no matter who is in power) thought of that, I suspect was the same as the Navy with their 3 or 4 CVA-01 carriers.
Before Wilson was in office, the Treasury had already told the RN that 1 CVA, with HMS Eagle and HMS Hermes was more like it. For the next 15 years.
The same would have applied to TSR-2 no doubt,.
I do regard axing P.1154 a lucky escape. Even it's proponents admitted it would have had serious issues.
The Australian government of Robert Menzies ordered the F111 (TFX as it was known at the time) in October 1963 against the wishes of the RAAF which had recommended the RA-5C vigilante. Cost was cited as the reason although the TSR2 would have been in service before any of its competitors. The decision was probably political but motivated by what, who knows.
Thanks for the info......crackin' stuff...I met a couple of chaps at the Bae stand at Leuchars last year who worked onTSR2 and their still p****d off about it being cancelled, got a great TSR2 poster from them as well.
138 TSR2s were planned for the RAF with production ending in 1973. The RAF did have ambitions for 320. Nuclear weapon clearance was intended to have been achieved by the time the 21st airframe was in production.
Air to air radar, semi recessed AAM's under fuselage?
What about the need for a cheaper, more agile fighter?
Proposals in the early 70's for a new ground attack but agile light fighter type were a dead end.
Later changed to something like the F-16/F-18 types, the BAe P.96?
But, that would have had to be started sooner than proposed and being just before the unstable/canard types like Gripen and Typhoon, likely another poor selling dead end?
TSR.2 might have been bad for industry in the end?
Never the TSR 2 was a fantastic piece of kit a lot that was learned on the TSR2 went into the Pannavia Tornado and the Sepecat Jaguar if TSR2 would of gone ahead it would still be in service as it was a large and adaptable airframe
Exports were unlikely due to the expense and sophistication of the airframe although the Australians would have still gone for it over the F111. BAC attempted to resurrect the TSR2 in 1981 with a version featuring 2-dimensional (i.e. Tornado style) inlets, but this came to nothing. Had TSR 2 gone ahead, we might also have had the P1154 (no F4K then?) and possibly the Hawker Siddeley HS. 1173 instead of Jaguar. An anglicised F15 would have been very costly to develop...great idea though.
Indeed, the RAF did did learn to love the Buccaneer after despising it for so long but the debate as to why the TSR 2 would have been vastly superior is perhaps for later. The supersonic hunter was never feasible as its internal fuel capacity (pretty poor as it was) would never have sustained an afterburner for long. Sir Sydney Camm attempted to address this with the use of "kidney" shaped fuel tanks surrounding the engine in the rear fuselage, but even these wouldn't have made much difference.
Fairey proposed an FD2 development to meet the OR.329 requirement for 1962 which incorporated a Spectre rocket giving Mach 2.5 performance and 90,000 feet. A further proposal, the FD3 also for the OR, would have been a very large peripheral interceptor capable of Mach 3. Constructed of stainless steel to bust through compressibility (a brute force solution a la MiG 25), the aircraft featured 2 Spectre Juniors. Fairey didn't proceed on the grounds that neither could be in service by 1962.
Potentially a great plane, but production would have been small with likely no exports.
The REAL killers of the TSR.2 were the Navy (Lord Mountbatten would produce 5 pics of the Buccaneer and one of TSR.2 and say 'same cost').
Plus the project management was awful, costs went crazy, Mountbatten in 1963 had advised Australia-the one potential export customer for TSR.2-not to consider it as it's bound to get axed.
A shame but the project should not have got as far as it did,
But not as Vulcans were in the 'Black Buck' raids which were empty prestige for the RAF.
TSR2s have 2 great strengths - great range & very robust undercarriages.
Atlantic Conveyor carried temporary runway;construct an air-head on South Georgia & from there attack mainland airbases & ∴stop nearly all raids on UK ships.
Cool video, it's a fantastic looking aircraft. I'm sure if we'd have built it it would have been retired in the late 90s, but what would have replaced it would have started to be phased in at the beginning of the 90s, rather than the Tiffie at the beginning of the 2000s. I reckon the loss of TSR.2 set us back 10yrs...
Not sure about setting us back 10 years. Let us not forget what the TSR2 was all about. High level bombers were finished against a warsaw pact enemy or anyone else with missiles. TSR2 was designed to fly at tree top height at mach 2!!!
:-o
That essentially made it a stealth bomber - nothing could possibly intercept it. Actually, the whole concept died with it - today stealth bombers rely on a small radar signature to get through. I'm sure if TSR2 had been ordered we would have a TSR3 by now...
I mean like the video says itself the aircraft was from 1960's designs i'd of rather of seen the F111K go into RAF service but due to defence cuts that to was a no go to. Thanks alot Harold wilson
I'm not sure, you know. The Aussies are still running the F111 and if they come to their senses about the long range strike inadequacies of the F35 in comparison, they may run it on yet.
Thanks for this. Its ashame that this aircraft was betrayed by the ignorance of government. What could have been indeed.
I always find the TSR.2 and F-20 (F-5G) to share the same tragic fates,great potential aircraft. Sadly the Australian Govt could have saved both in selecting them for service at key times. Instead we got F-4 Phantoms and then eventually the F-111's. And instead of the F-20, the F/A-18 which in essence was an adaption of a Northrop design any how. Politics is cruel.
a super design but I think the UK just didn't have the funding to carry on, same with the Canadians with their Avro jet airliner on 1952..better now with airbus competing strongly..I hope airbus gets the tanker contract instead of the unwanted 767 from boeing...:)
Woah, I really liked the video. Nice piece of work for a flight sim video, but my only question is, which flight sim was it made on? Microsoft Flight Sim, X-plane 8/9??? Cheers, flanker.
First Sim video I really liked, but then the subject is TSR-2... 2nd half music, well not to my taste, but hey!
Nice thought that - when F-111 structural problems, cost overruns and re-design crisis occurred, that we might have twisted 'their' arms for once, to buy one of ours - and of course like all EE designs, was spot-on straight off the drawing board.
Twin fins someone said a few pages back - what on earth for, had great lateral stability and control as it was.
WOW! Beautiful video. forgetnatly, the TSR2 isn't completely gone/forgotten. XR220 and XR222 both made it into preservation while at a VA i belong to, they operate 2 improved TSR2 under the designation TSR2X and TSR2XB.
Like another video I have seen on this great aircraft, it has brought me to tears. If this project wasn't cancelled, I guarantee that this plane would still be in service today, probably even equipping the USAF. It's potential was so great, that only the F-117 can come close in some respects. But as a first strike aircraft, it was perfection.Fact is, the Tornado only does some of the jobs that this plane was desinged to do. This plane was a true multi role combat aircraft. Even now, we miss it.
This is a superb piece of work. Faultless. I often wonder what TSR2 would have been named. The Tornado was called the Panavia MRCA originally so I suppose TSR2 would have been given a name too. Any ideas?
Comment removed
gamerbwoi 3 days ago
So it may have done - but what about landing? (Also needed a drag 'chute which needed repacking). Impractical in a combat zone / airfield. TSR = Tactical Strike Reconaissance. It would have been a superb long range Recon aircraft, but would have been a liability in other roles. To be a true success, it needed to be more versatile. The retard is the person who feels the need to resort to insults...
ThadYaltis 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ThadYaltis dick turd! full blown flaps helped make the tsr2 a STOL aircraft you retarded badger!!! ffs read up on it! your way out of your depth douchebag.
Im a fuckin expert..
Whats a dragchute got to do with anything??
TSR = Tactical Strike Recon?!?!?! REALLY??? Look up XR219!!!
What a massive faggit!
gamerbwoi 2 days ago
You wot?
This plane was created by the british, then the americas liked the idea of a 'supersonic strike aircraft' and offered us help to build it.
Once the Amerifags got hold of the plans, they took what they thought was a great idea, and created there own aircraft (f111)..
Stupid Amerifags couldnt get the blown flaps to work and decided rather than trying to fix the problem, they'd start again thus why the F111 had sweeping wings.
Americans cant engineer, They can steal ideas real good though
gamerbwoi 4 days ago
I used to know a chap who worked on the TSR2 project, and he said that at the time they thought that it was actually cancelled for several reasons; firstly, it needed a long runway, and these were thought to be a weakness due to missile technology being developed by the Eastern bloc countries. Secondly, the Hawker P1127 (Harrier) was becoming a reality (thus eliminating the need for runways). Thirdly, the McDonnell Douglas F4 Phantom was on the table as a serious alternative. Shame really.
ThadYaltis 5 days ago
@ThadYaltis And the TSR2 only needed 600 yard to take off- RETARD!!!
gamerbwoi 4 days ago
@binaway Well Lockheed Bribed West-Germany to buy just a handful of the F-104G, & in fact with each Aircraft being worth Millions of Pounds 24 is actually quite a lot, plus almost all initial orders are of such numbers.
If Bombers really were that vulnerable in the 60's the Tornado would never have been built.
That & the Mirage IV was Inferior to the Vulcan & the Valiant B2, so buying that Plane would have been a really Stupid move
(EVEN more Stupid than Cancelling TSR-2 for the F-111K was).
TSR1989FF 2 months ago
@binaway Well Lockheed Bribed East Germany to buy just a handful of the
F-104G, & in fact with each Aircraft being worth Millions of Pounds 24 is actually quite a lot, plus almost all initial orders are of such numbers.
If Bombers really were that vulnerable in the 60's the Tornado would never have been built.
That & the Mirage IV was Inferior to the Vulcan & the Valiant B2, so buying that Plane would have been a really Stupid move
(EVEN more Stupid than Cancelling TSR-2 for the F-111K was).
TSR1989RN 3 months ago
@binaway - Lol, I think you mean West Germany.
spinacilight 3 months ago
@spinacilight Yes, West-Germany not Eastern
(Verdammit Typos).
TSR1989FF 2 months ago
love the vid it inspired me to make 2 what if tsr2's 1/48th airfix kits one gulf war and one 2011 version love the vid
kiffer1981 6 months ago
It certainly was a gorgeous aircraft and ahead of its time but was it as good as we all think? I mean it was designed for low level attack yet that wing seems pretty small for low level, or have I got it wrong? Sad none the less, interesting that the tail end looks like the Tornado.
tournon71 6 months ago
Apparently later production versions would have had variable pitch rectangular intakes similar to the tornado or F-15. That would have looked awesome!
xoio 9 months ago
@xoio iv built a model with lerx, rectangular intakes and canards looks cool as hell
eatthisvr6 4 months ago
Brilliant video. Does anyone know where you can get this TSR2 model from? i think its the alphasim but i can't find it anywhere
daleksec245 10 months ago
Folks: I know you're pissed at America for this, and rightfully so, but please remember, other than Duncan Sandys being on the take from Lockheed corp, PM Harold Wilson was a Soviet Agent, and that's why both the U.K. and Canada where lead into destroying all their beautiful things!
Dreaded88 10 months ago
You did a really great tribute animation, in lieu opf what Sonicboom put forth, which i believe was deleted (thanks for nothing youboob!). And I really like the what should be video as well, I just think you should've squeezed more weapons onto the wings and fuesilage!
Dreaded88 10 months ago
with them short wings it would have been great on a big fleet carrier Oh dear! we got rid of them too
chitlika 10 months ago
What 'should' have ben rather than 'could' perhaps?
I think one aspect behind domestic American pressure to kill the TSR.2 was that just like the Americans had chosen the Canberra over the B-51 (which they did an admirable job of modifying into the B-57), they would really have seriously considered cancelling the F-111 and going for the TSR.2 Eagle.
Under pressure the UK not only killed the TSR.2, it killed its aviation industry like the Canadians killed theirs with the Arrow.
AntelopeUHA 11 months ago
@AntelopeUHA Exactly right.
If only the Yankee's had done just that (bought the "BAC TSR-2 Eagle" instead of just playing dirty in order to keep their own Less capable "F-111 Raven" from being out competed by her), they would have got a massively superior Plane a lot sooner than F-111 & (ironically) cheaper overall than it too.
It is quite disturbing how similar the fates of TSR-2 & the "AVRO-C Arrow" were/are, dispite that the Arrow was almost 10 years before TSR-2 & a Fighter-Interceptor.
TSR1989FF 11 months ago
@TSR1989FF The Yanks played dirty, and they did use the IMF loan Britain was seeking to pay for its bloated welfare state as leverage. However, we shouldn't overlook the role spectacularly piss poor project management played in the disaster. Sadly, considering the farce that was the Nimrod MR.4 programme and such, the British arguably still haven't learnt their lesson. I think it's entirely feasible to say that British failures merely allowed the French and Germans to walk in and take its place.
AntelopeUHA 11 months ago
@AntelopeUHA i agree with you politicians certainly played a huge part in the disgusting episode i believe the project manedgement were hugely responsable too.
despite all the crap that was going on the engineers (ie what britain does best) produced what wouldve almost certainly brilliant and world beating airplane (not to mention very very beautiful).
the yanks were deffinately worried about it because it was better than the f111 but i dont know that they had any real input in the tsr2s demise
eatthisvr6 11 months ago
@eatthisvr6 Considering Australia was the only export customer for the F111 and the RAAF order was only for 24 aircraft I don't think what the Americans wanted played much part in the cancellation. I think the creation of the SLBM and vulnerability of RAF bases to the Soviet ICBM force made the TSR2 obsolete. A smaller TSR2, ie the Tornado or Mirage IV would have made more sense together with the Polaris system.
binaway 4 months ago in playlist tsr 2
@binaway yep but success would have generated orders. great success would have generated even more. it would have totally wiped the floor with the f111 and the americans knew it. The f111 came in even more expensive than the TSR 2. Its the way the project was TOTALLY erased which leaves a bad smell. We were after a loan from the IMF at the time and the USA were needed on board for the thumbs up for it. I believe that they arm twisted and the project was lost. Typical USA IMHO.
stubbostubbs 1 month ago
It's been a few days since i was last here but this Yank's Ageist Blabbering is even more stupid than i remember (the only worse example being that spammer).
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
I refer readers to my previous post
(incidentally, using another screen name achieves nothing)
Choxster1 1 year ago
@Choxster1 It seems your propensity for Inaccuracy & wild assumation are the same as always then.
If you bothered to check before you babble (something obviously beyond your limited IQ) you'd know that Apache & I are unrelated as Y.T. Users (exept from being Friends) GESU-BAKA.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
I refer readers to my previous post.
Choxster1 1 year ago
@Choxster1 And I to my own.
I wouldn't let a Yankee get away with saying even half of your Nonsense so you have no Mercy from
me Fraud.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@Choxster1 Please, don't make me laugh. Stop spreading false information.
Apache757 1 year ago
@Apache757 Hi, Esteemed friend & Ally.
I see you got my message about this Spammer, Hope you brought Friend's.
Let's Expunge this duplicitous charlatan once & for all.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
As you can see, the person is a luntic. Please ignore him.
Choxster1 1 year ago
@Choxster1 Since you didn't even spell that right who are the British & Global Internet's Users
going to beleave?
Just because it's in Print doesn't mean anyone of common sense will take it as Stated Fact
(just like Pravda).
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
WARNING ALL VIEWERS. (For your own well being & to safeguard the Truth of this subject)
Their is a Spammer on this Video called "Choxter1" who has been spreading false Infomation about
the "BAC TSR-2 Eagle" Interdictor & the Event's surrounding Her Contriversial Demise.
The "TSR Foundation" has no tolerance for Spammers with reguards to this Aircraft & Her Fatefully Short History & will track down & Reprimand those who do Anything of the Kind.
Thankyou.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
No idea who the person below is. For the information of the more intelligent readers of this thread, he is of course talking nonsense.
As I said previously, if you want to read the truth about this subject, buy my book, or get it from the library? Far better than reading endless rubbish from people who patently haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
Choxster1 1 year ago
@Choxster1 "Everything you say... Like Glue... Sticks back to you"
"Counter Conspiracist's" like you are a Disgrace who will do anything to Flog a quick Debunking of Historical Fact (just like the Tabloid's do to sell their cheap Rag's).
The ""Truth"" as you put it is the Utter Nonsense here, Not I.
Next time you try this kind of Scam don't do so with someone who's Studied this Subject a great deal more than you ever have.
I Think you should quit while you're behind Fraudster.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
NICE
SlavaSvarogu 1 year ago
This was another victim of the us.
joluqa 1 year ago
The F-111 wasn't a competitor. There was no serious prospect of either aircraft being exported to anyone other than Australia. Australia bought F-111 because they wanted to be politically tied to the US (this is stated in Government papers).
Warhead design had no influence on TSR2 at all and never did. It was designed to carry Red Beard and subsequently WE.177.
By the time that TSR2 was cancelled, the RAF had decided that they didn't want it.
Hope this clears-up some more misconceptions.
Choxster1 1 year ago
America didn't pressure the UK to abandon TSR2. hey wanted the RAF to have it, in fact.
Mountbatten didn't destroy the project - even though he liked to imagine that he did. In actual fact the Government simply told him to shut-up.
The Labour Government didn't "murder" TSR2. They simply inherited a project which should have already been cancelled.
The Government didn't "destroy" the surviving prototypes. They offered to allow BAC to continue flying them. BAC didn't want to.
Choxster1 1 year ago
As has been said, if you want to read the true story of TSR2, have a look at my book. There are endless myths and bogus stories about TSR2 (some repeated on this thread) and they're all nonsense I'm afraid.
The real story isn't as mysterious or exciting. I was delighted to rectify so many misconceptions so that the subject can now be discussed without so many false assumptions... although I fear the myths will continue to be perpetuated. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story...
Choxster1 1 year ago
@Choxster1 Since your "Statement" is riddled with Blatent ERRORS about the TSR-2 Programme
(which i have studied for years) i find your claim about having the ""True story of TSR-2"" to be a load of Hogwash.
This has to be the worst form of Plugging i've ever seen (at least it explains the Misconseptions "Liverpool Scottish" had when i first met him, having been yours in origin).
Don't come here again whoever you are as the "TSR Foundation" will Weed out your Rubbish werever it appears.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
I've always loved the TSR.2, my dad worked on XR220 back in the 60's and still has his TSR.2 tie that the engineering team were given. I wore it to school a few years back and the technology teacher saw it and asked where I'd got it from, when I told him my dad had worked on it he started telling the rest of the class about it. A few years ago we went to Cosford and my dad saw "his" TSR.2 which he thought had been scrapped. Got a photo of him standing in front of it in the front room.
HairySteveUK 1 year ago
My Congratulations this is One of the Best "BAC TSR-2 Eagle" Interdictor Tributes i have Ever seen, (& I've seen a Great many so far)
Out of Curiousity Where did you source this Fantastic C.G.I. Footage?
I'm Planning to Make a Tribute of my own as soon as My Computer Upgrades are Completed & The More Material the Better since their is Limited Test Footage of
The TSR-2,
Anyone Reading this who would like to see TSR-2's "XR220" or "XR222" Surrviving Planes Restored Don't Hesitate to Respond.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
excellent video :)
such a fantastic plane that was murdered by the government it even looked fantastic. if it had entered service the raf woulve had the best interceptor on earth (lightning) and the best low level bomber too it was supposed to be even better than the tornado which was 15-20 later!!
oh and it could run away from a lightning with engine engine in reheat i doubt any other fighter or bomber could manedge that before or since!!
eatthisvr6 1 year ago
@eatthisvr6 Indeed, The "TSR-2 Eagle" was a Gifted Interdictor
& Had Promise for a Verirty of other Roles (Even thoretically in A Naval Capacity given She was Designed for rapid Acceleration & Takeoff's.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
thank fuck the ira blew mountbatten up,before he could open his mouth and do anymore damage to this country,the german prick.maybe he was upset because his missus was shagged by a paki...LOL
junkman19571 1 year ago
@junkman19571 I agree wholeheartedly, bar the last point. Nehru was Indian.
Mountbatten had a sidekick though, and that was Solly Zuckerman, the 'Scientific Adviser' to the government who did what ever it took to slag the TSR.2 off at every opportunity. What did he know about the subject? Nothing. He was a zoologist.
Both dead. Both burning in hell.
AntelopeUHA 1 year ago
@AntelopeUHA Mountbatten Had Nothing Personal against the
"BAC TSR-2 Eagle" Interdictor he was just Dead Set on Saving
The Plans to build Replacment's for the Ageing Centaur & Audatious Class Carriers
(which That Worthless Burk Wilson would also Kill off) & Was prepaired to do anything To Insure that (The Planned Class had the same name as the New Carriers being built now Ironically)
Mountbatten Was a Great Man & was in part to Thank for Booting Wilson out in 1974 (By threat of Army Coup).
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Sorry, WRONG! Mountbatten went out of his way to undermine th TSR 2 project. MB was instrumental in killing off Australian interest as a potential purchaser of TSR 2. He implied to the Australian's that "enthusiasm for the project came mostly from the manufacturer rather than the customer," ie the British Gov. He emphasised it's 'huge' cost compared to Polaris subs. MB's biographer stated, " MB pushed his campaign against TSR2 to the limit of the scrupulous, some would say beyond it."
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH There is someone who is Wrong... But it Isn't Me...
Mountbatten (Who had served with Distinction in the Navy During WWII) Was Dedicated to Keeping the Royal Navy in good Health by Insuring She Continued to Get as much of the Defence Budget as Possible (As She had always Done), Besides the Tactical Strike Role that The
"BAC TSR-2 Eagle" was Intended,She was a Gifted Low Level Interdictor in the Conventional role as well, Plus (as the Name imply's) Was designed for Recon.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF In Conclusion Mountbatten was Determend to Do everything in his Power to Save the Royal Navy from the Cut's that would have Crippled her (& He's to thank for getting Wilson Booted out in 1974 by threatening Him that if he did not Resign he would Face a Military Coup [The Only Known example of the Army Planning to Overthrow the Goverment])
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Sorry, read Tim McLelland's latest book on TSR 2, he completely demolishes many of the conspiracy myths surrounding the demise of TSR2. Whilst it is true that MB wanted to ensure money was available to build new carriers for the RN, and that he was anti-TSR 2, his actual influence was next to ZERO. McLelland's book reveals the truth and he shreds the theory that the US was behind it's demise.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH He Mustn't be very well Informed,
The U.S. Had it's Grubby little Fingers in Just about every Pie you could imagine,
They weren't just a Factor Behind TSR-2's Demise,(Of Many) But the "Miles-52" Supersonic Test Aircraft (Which Unlike the Bell X-1 Was Powered by a All British Jet Engine giving unto it a Top Speed of over 1000MPH & could Take off & land Under Her own Power). And the "Saunders Roe SR177"(A Interceptor Inspired by the WWII German "Komet" ....T.B.C.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH ... The SR-177 Was to be Sold to the West German Airforce in the 1960's... But then quite Suddenly the Germans Changed their Minds &
Accepted a Offer from the U.S. For a Modified "F104 Starfighter" (The "F104G")
Which as any Well Versed Areonautical Historian Knows.. Was a Miserable Failure in this Form, (The Number of German Pilots Killed in Accidents with the F104G Became quite a Scandal in later Years & Questions are still asked to this day as to what the Motive was for..
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH ... Buying an Aircraft (& sticking with it for quite some time) that was clearly Unsuited to the Role of which was Required of it by the Germans when far more Suited Aircraft Had been offered (Of which the SR-177 Was the Front Runner).
I am not Someone who has time For Conspiracy Theorys, But the Most likley Reason for the Abrupt Cancelation of the Miles-52, The Germans Taking on the F104G, & The Cancelation of TSR-2 Is U.S.Financal "Insentive's" & Treatening like in Suez.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Sorry, I don't understand your point, other than the fact that you acknowledge that MB's main concern lay with securing/ring fencing funds for the RN. Even his own biographer has stated that his conduct re TSR 2 bordered on the "unscrupulous." It is rumoured that MB had playing cards made up, one with the TSR 2 on, and five with a Buccaneer on. He would lay them on the table & state, "You can have five of these (Buccaneer), for everyone of these- TSR2."
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I've Read that Quote too Attually,
Beside's The Primary Factors in TSR-2's are as such, 1:The Limitation by Macmillan (One of the Worst Conservative Leaders in the Whole of History) of the Warhead Size of all British Nuclear Weapons (Which Proved a Headache for the Armed Forces for years & was a Considerable Setback for the TSR-2)
2:The U.S.'s "F-111 Raven/Ardvark" Interdictor, Which was in Direct Competition with Her but Further away from Completion & the U.S. Knew it.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF man you need a life dude really. Or a girlfriend.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 I have both attually.
Tell that to the Spammer underneath.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Yeah but you keep feeding him. So it shows me a lot.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 If someone turned up & started spreading Nonsense about something you cared about would you find it acceptable??
No i don't thimk so.
Besides this Foolish Fopp is going to be massively outnumbered before long by better informed & far less Restrained users than i so the outcome is enevitably in my favour in any case. Anyway Why are you on a page that is obviously of no interest to you anyway??
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Wow? Now you can talk for me you really are a nerd. Like i said get a life and a girlfriend. Because all you're doing is bad mouthing. I liked the Tsr2. But one fact for it's down fall was cost. And i was in the USMC fought next to British troops. You you're nothing more then a keyboard Warrior.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 Show's what you know. (& to re-iterate i have both thank you).
The Badmouther is the Fraud below, not i attually.
Multiple Generations of my Family have Served in the British Armed Forces
(Including BOTH World Wars / the Kenyan Emergency & the Falkland's war) & I Myself was
3/7th's the way through the Process of training to be a "Tank Crewman" in the
"Royal Armoured Corp", Until the recent Defence Cut's put paid to that.
Thankfully i've found a Full time job to compensate.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Yeah I do know. But you never were in the field nothing more then a Nerdy Keyboard Warrior. Only way you know how to fight is on Youtube and and to make allies on Youtube 100% Nerd.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 No you don't know (Anything).
In my Country only the base Working Class Commoners call anyone a "Nerd" so that say's a lot about you then doesn't it?
Besides have you ever seen me use Base Language? No i didn't think so.
Plus as i made Very clear my training (& many others) was cut short by the Defence Cuts & we were told to Re-apply at a later date when the number of new Recruits needed Inproves.
I for one can wait for now, Since i have Stable Interim Employment.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF So meaning till then you are nothing more then a Keyboard warrior. And stupid i was on a base before i went to Iraq in '03 and worked with the RIR and RMC. So when you were still a glem in your father's eye i was in combat.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 Ageist as well are we?
Well right back at you you Retunned Bigot.
By all means keep blabbering to yourself, i'm off to have a Delectible Supper
(i'm after all from a country which still knows how to cook).
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Yeah you are. And tell your Mummy i said hi Sonny Jim.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF yeah what is Keyboard warrior?
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 3: The "Spiraling Costs" (which were more to do with Under-Estimation & inaccuratcy by the Goverment rather than anything Attributable to the Aircraft Herself.
4:Zukerman, Who Was the Primary Factor Behind the Campaign to Slander the TSR-2 & a Utterly Odious Little Pen Pushing Creep it has to be said (then again their are plenty of those.. In The Tax Office. (Laugh)
5: The Labourites. Aguably the Largest (& Worst) Factor of all since it was them who Had "XR-119" Destroyed.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH In Conclusion... I'm a Ardent TSR-2 Entusiast & have Studied Her ever since I Discovered Her in a Airfix Catalog Years Ago,
After all... My User & Foundation Name wasn't Chosen at Random, The
"British Aircraft Corperation Tactcal Strike/Reconnaissance -2 Eagle" (To Give Her Her full Hame) Is A Shining Example of The Finest of British Engineering &
of why we can Never Trust The U.S. (Anymore than we can trust Labourites with Defence Spending or the French as Allies in war).
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF "why we can Never Trust The U.S" Jesus you are stupid if it wasn't for the USMC the Harrier GR1 wouldn't be in service in the RAF. There is your trust.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 What you think Yankee isn't of ANY interest to us Brit's.
I'm not going to bother Explaining it to you because you wouldn't ever agree anyway.
Take my advice & go somewere else that attually has something to do with your lot.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 Besides explain your sudden failure to honour your agreement to Mutually Share your Areospace Technology with us in the late 1940's once we'd given you all of ours.
2: The Backstabbing in Suez in 1956.
3:That the last Anglo-American war was in 1911 (over the Remains of the Spanish Empire in the Carribean).
4:That after WWI & till 1922 All British War Planning was made with the US as the Enemy.
you can check that & there is both Document's & Historian's own statement's as Proof.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Oh my god really? There were no shots fired in 1911 retard. The Suez was your own damn fault you tried keeping your Empire but you failed to see see how the world didn't support it anymore stupid. And even to today Britain is nothing more then the 51st state of America. And again you changed the facts that i was talking about your service to the past. What a sad nerd you really are.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 Again with the Petty Insult's (with a arguement like that you could only be a Yank).
Plus we brit's Bow to no-one, Much less you chubby ignorant Useless Pudgebuckets.
To paraphrase a British Politician denouncing a Eurocrat....
"We don't need you... we don't want you... & the sooner your put out of your Misery... the Better"
The world would be better off to say the least.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TSR1989FF Yeah but that why that Eurocrat isn't in power. And with your PM calling the UK America's Jr. Partner we all know where you stand.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
To: @the Bigotist dried up old codger.
Junior Partner?? in your own excuse for a head maybe, You fat yank's couldn't flush a Toilet without we Brit's to help you work out how
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 If it wasn't for the British, the Harrier would not exist! lol Rather like man on the moon- GERMAN brains, US dollars.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH No if it wasn't more the USMC the Harrier wouldn't exist! fact in the 1960's British government didn't have the money for it the USMC like the fact that it didn't need a runway and put money into it and even made the first 2 seater.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@TheIceman567 Wrong. The US played NO role in the initial development of the Harrier, it was an entirely British project- HAWKER SIDDELEY. The US bought the Harrier & then embarked on developing it further. The genius behind the concept was British. The British even made the mediocre P-51 into the superb escort fighter that it became. Rolls Royce engineers threw the aesthmatic Allison engine out, modifed the airframe & slotted the British Merlin in. The British even named it 'Mustang.' lol
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The Us did play a role i think you should read about it before you comment on it. The RAF was broke in the 60's it liked the harrier idea but didn't have them money. Read about you fool.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Don't mind "Ice for brains" he's just like that, the "Hawker-Siddeley Harrier" (Like the
"EE Canberra" [which the Yank's also bought ]) is a ALL BRITISH Plane & they could do to remember that.
The 1960's "GT40 Supercar" is also British (Designed & Built by "LOLA Racing Cars" of Cambridgeshire BEFORE Ford & Ferrari fell out to begin with, she was the winner of the subsiquent Competition Ford held to find a Ferrari beater for
le man, which she cirtainly did with ease ; )
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@junkman19571 Oh Put a Sock in It whoever you are.
I'm Of Irish Decent (Stretching back 800 Years before the Troubles even Existed) & the I.R.A. Are just a Load of Republican, Murdering Scumbags who deserve Nothing more than the Sharp end of A SA-80 Assault Rifle, If Not for the Libyan & U.S. Arm's & Explosive's they were fed for Years they would Have Been Exterminated for Good & my Ancestral Homeland would be a Better Place for it.
Leave the Base Language out or just Keep your Mouth Shut.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
Fantastic video!
FrostbiteUK 1 year ago
Other than the usual flame war, this is a very good vid. It was edited superbly, and the songs match so well.
Firespectrum122 1 year ago 3
@Firespectrum122 Agreed, a fantastic Video & a great Tribute to this amazing Aircraft.
Besides few great Vid's are without a exchange of verbal Salvos here & there
(theres always a militant disliker who get's the others cheesed off, the result being almost inevitable).
michaelfergusonuk 1 year ago
@michaelfergusonuk well, I guess we have to live with it. Cheers for taking the time to reply :)
Firespectrum122 1 year ago
@Firespectrum122 No trouble at all, always great to meet another liker of the TSR-2, quite an aircraft to put it mildly.
Plus at least this Feud (gone cold now i'd say) was a tame one overall, some can be quite viceral to put it mildly.
Still, doesn't change that this Video is very good indeed, makes me want Sony Vega's too
(shame it costs a bomb, [ bad pun i admit ]).
michaelfergusonuk 1 year ago
We could not have afforded the TSR.2. We should have built it as a tech demostrater. The Blackburn Bucaneer should have been brought from the beginning for both the FAA and the RAF. A Joint Force Bucaneer (JFB), perhaps?
ConciseOxford100 1 year ago
@ConciseOxford100 We could have built it. it was just our government was under extreme pressure to cancel it from the US Government. The americans were scared we had made something better and tried to force us into ordering the F111 instead.
i wish they hadnt :(
AtoZ0to9123456 1 year ago
I keep watching this video, even though it brings tears to my eyes when I think of how we (Uk) gave SO much of our aviation industry away. We could have been first to Mach 1 with the M.52, Investigated swing wing during WW2 but gave it away, gave away the jet engine, gave up on the TSR.2, which would have been the most awesome low level strike aircraft ever to see service.
fauxsham 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you're going to show animation, then
please title it as animation!!! I want video
not FSX or any of the other bullshit animation platforms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sagacix 1 year ago
@sagacix Didn't you think with the title "what it could have been " should have given a hint , unless you thought he made one and then fly it around .
BarefootBASE 1 year ago 2
what's the name of the song in the "what if" segment?
kcf881 2 years ago
@kcf881 Both songs are the following: FIrst, it's Mad World by Gary Jules and the next is the theme from Command & Conquer Generals.
Firespectrum122 1 year ago
This plane is like Concorde. All these years later and there is still nothing that comes close to it.
Mthtmty 2 years ago
My dad flew the F-111. The fastest anyone ever got it was an australian pilot in the US for training. His name was Andy Pellequin, and he achieved 1463 KTAS 200 ft off the deck in death valley california in an F-111. That's the fastest low level speed ive ever heard of officially or unofficially.
covingtonium 2 years ago
The TSR2 was the price Wilson paid the Americans for ready to go Nukes. Terrified them completely. Looked at a Rockwell B1 lately?
jdcm555 2 years ago
The americans asked the UK to cancel and destroy it, just because they were jelous. DAMN AMERICANS!!
alexgets98 2 years ago 27
no it wasn't it was the new goverment in the uk at the time decide that it wasordered under the old govement that it would make them look like idenitysthat a plane like that was under the pervious people incharge
12365paul 2 years ago
@alexgets98 Proof?
EESASTORM 1 year ago
@alexgets98 Indeed,
People who Denegrate this Beautifull & Reverlutional Aircraft
(eg"Jers59" [or Jarhead59 to be more Accurate])
Do Not even Deserve to be Feeling the Same Flow of Time or Breathing The same Air as Decent Hard Working Terran's (Humans)[That said The U.S. is also the Second Largest Polluter of our Planet so their Air Quality must be Truly Disgusting]
Our Aviation Industry Never Truly Recovered from TSR-2's Axing or
the Saunders-Roe SR-177 Interceptor (Also the US's Fault)
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
Comment removed
Choxster1 1 year ago
@alexgets98 sounds to me that you're the jelous one.
TheIceman567 1 year ago
@alexgets98
Didn't want their F-111 being challenged. Pathetic..
xoio 9 months ago
@xoio Yep totally.
alexgets98 5 months ago
Brilliant video of the TSR2. Ongoing in-service development would have kept it in the forefront of modern military aviation well into the 1990's - had it entered service.
A complete TSR2 - XR222 - is also displayed at RAF Duxford museum.
jasta42 2 years ago
love the vid. too bad the planes were destroyed.
wwclay86 2 years ago
not all destroyed-see XR220 at raf cosford
museum in the west midlands.
16blockheads 2 years ago
the tsr2 was a great aircraft intended to fly at supersonic speeds at 50 feet. pity the programme cost too much but the odd thing was all airframes and jigs were destroyed which leads to to conspiracy that the americans were scared of it and did not want it to go into production incase the russians got hold of it
robbo11211 2 years ago
Everybody loves a conspiracy!
The truth is, and it was explained very clearly at the time (I was there, I remember!) is that, while no one doubted the technical excellence of the plane, and its potential, Britain just could not afford the development costs.
The main fear for the West was thousands of tanks rumbling in from the USSR. There was no money in post-war Britain for this "cherry on the cake" and other similar projects.
We had the brainpower, but we were broke!
scotjack 2 years ago
I might be talking through my arse but from what I gather about this plane, the development of cruise missiles ,Concord, HUD,s and even the PC would have been retarded! I,m not an aviation nurd, so could someone with a bit of nouse tell me , is this so?
bt965 2 years ago
Fu@@@n Brilliant!!! Well done!! 100 out of 10
bt965 2 years ago
The black one is best..so sad to lose such a great potential...
DRIXTON444 2 years ago
Beautiful FS and what it should be...
Love to see that these possibilities in FS are real in some viewing angels, I'm carrying away, is did see in the 70's and 80's the last of the cold war planes fading away, sadly but true. I have them still on photo and here on You Tube we and other enthousiasts can still see them flying. Please more footage.......... let all video of the past come to us.
Where the hell do you get these planes from and those beautiful markings.........!
Ichikohsan 2 years ago
Fantastic job mate, well done. Just reminds me of just how big a disaster its cancellation was for British aviation.
malteserabroad 2 years ago 2
TSR.2 might have entered service before 1970, (avionics could have been an issue here), P.1154 unlikely to be operational before the early/mid 70's, assuming problems were not insurmountable, HS.681, doubtful to be in service before the C-130's were.
And coming along was the Jaguar, what would become the Tornado and the Hawk.
The 1957 White Paper made the situation in 1964/65 inevitable. Someone had to resolve it, even if the economy had been in better shape that in actually was.
SSCFPA 2 years ago
Including hot gas re-ingestion, heat and vibration in the rear fuselage (where much of the avionics were).
It was running before walking, much better to go with what became the Harrier, the P.1127 for the first ever operational VSTOL.
In 1964, the UK military aircraft industry was in chaos, it had been since 1957.
Meaning the RAF were still mostly flying Hunters and Canberras with a few Lightnings in the mid 60's.
5 years later the situation was different, F-4, Harrier, Buccaneer, C-130
SSCFPA 2 years ago
I remember a reference to 138 RAF TSR-2's, what the Treasury (no matter who is in power) thought of that, I suspect was the same as the Navy with their 3 or 4 CVA-01 carriers.
Before Wilson was in office, the Treasury had already told the RN that 1 CVA, with HMS Eagle and HMS Hermes was more like it. For the next 15 years.
The same would have applied to TSR-2 no doubt,.
I do regard axing P.1154 a lucky escape. Even it's proponents admitted it would have had serious issues.
SSCFPA 2 years ago
HA HA HA HA
Hilarious
Almost as funny as your pathetic profile you Neo Nazi Canadian idiot.
farterguff 2 years ago
Me again, Did'nt the Aussies order TSR 2 then have put up with F111s when the project was cancelled?
ValiantB1 2 years ago
Comment removed
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
The Australian government of Robert Menzies ordered the F111 (TFX as it was known at the time) in October 1963 against the wishes of the RAAF which had recommended the RA-5C vigilante. Cost was cited as the reason although the TSR2 would have been in service before any of its competitors. The decision was probably political but motivated by what, who knows.
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
Thanks for the info......crackin' stuff...I met a couple of chaps at the Bae stand at Leuchars last year who worked onTSR2 and their still p****d off about it being cancelled, got a great TSR2 poster from them as well.
ValiantB1 2 years ago
We should have had this Fantastic aircraft makes me wonder what we would be flying now
ValiantB1 2 years ago
Certainly some TSR.2 avionic components went into other aircraft, like Jaguar.
However, when TSR.2 was axed, for a brief period, F-111's were ordered instead.
An order for 50 aircraft.
Is it realistic to think that would not have been the numbers for TSR.2?
It's hard to see otherwise.
Then what?
SSCFPA 2 years ago
138 TSR2s were planned for the RAF with production ending in 1973. The RAF did have ambitions for 320. Nuclear weapon clearance was intended to have been achieved by the time the 21st airframe was in production.
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
Air to air radar, semi recessed AAM's under fuselage?
What about the need for a cheaper, more agile fighter?
Proposals in the early 70's for a new ground attack but agile light fighter type were a dead end.
Later changed to something like the F-16/F-18 types, the BAe P.96?
But, that would have had to be started sooner than proposed and being just before the unstable/canard types like Gripen and Typhoon, likely another poor selling dead end?
TSR.2 might have been bad for industry in the end?
SSCFPA 2 years ago
Never the TSR 2 was a fantastic piece of kit a lot that was learned on the TSR2 went into the Pannavia Tornado and the Sepecat Jaguar if TSR2 would of gone ahead it would still be in service as it was a large and adaptable airframe
gaz11h 2 years ago
Thanks for info Grebe.
Question - TSR-2 is built. The production would end by 1972/3.
Exports unlikely.
What next for UK industry-assume no MRCA (Tornado).
Only Jaguar (perhaps) and Hawk on the way.
What replaces RAF Phantoms in from the mid 80's?
Then Jaguar a decade later?
Would a UK version of the F-15D/E been built (UK Avionics/licence production)?
Or would the funds be found for a new UK project?
(Maybe a swing wing TSR-BAC proposed this-with raised cockpit like the Sea Harrier with a big
SSCFPA 2 years ago
Exports were unlikely due to the expense and sophistication of the airframe although the Australians would have still gone for it over the F111. BAC attempted to resurrect the TSR2 in 1981 with a version featuring 2-dimensional (i.e. Tornado style) inlets, but this came to nothing. Had TSR 2 gone ahead, we might also have had the P1154 (no F4K then?) and possibly the Hawker Siddeley HS. 1173 instead of Jaguar. An anglicised F15 would have been very costly to develop...great idea though.
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
Not when a developed Buccaneer could do much the same job.
Ironic that once the RAF had to take the once rejected Buccaneer, they fell in love with it.
UK projects in the 50's and early 60's were often over ambitious, but designs like a supersonic Hawker Hunter version were rejected.
Hence we lost a lot of export markets, making UK projects even more expensive.
The French could not believe that we never made an operational Fairey Delta 2 version.
They did and called it the Mirage.
And it sold.
SSCFPA 2 years ago
Indeed, the RAF did did learn to love the Buccaneer after despising it for so long but the debate as to why the TSR 2 would have been vastly superior is perhaps for later. The supersonic hunter was never feasible as its internal fuel capacity (pretty poor as it was) would never have sustained an afterburner for long. Sir Sydney Camm attempted to address this with the use of "kidney" shaped fuel tanks surrounding the engine in the rear fuselage, but even these wouldn't have made much difference.
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
Fairey proposed an FD2 development to meet the OR.329 requirement for 1962 which incorporated a Spectre rocket giving Mach 2.5 performance and 90,000 feet. A further proposal, the FD3 also for the OR, would have been a very large peripheral interceptor capable of Mach 3. Constructed of stainless steel to bust through compressibility (a brute force solution a la MiG 25), the aircraft featured 2 Spectre Juniors. Fairey didn't proceed on the grounds that neither could be in service by 1962.
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
Potentially a great plane, but production would have been small with likely no exports.
The REAL killers of the TSR.2 were the Navy (Lord Mountbatten would produce 5 pics of the Buccaneer and one of TSR.2 and say 'same cost').
Plus the project management was awful, costs went crazy, Mountbatten in 1963 had advised Australia-the one potential export customer for TSR.2-not to consider it as it's bound to get axed.
A shame but the project should not have got as far as it did,
Contd.
SSCFPA 2 years ago
could these have been used in the falklands?
mbb05jb 2 years ago
@mbb05jb Yes I believe so.
But not as Vulcans were in the 'Black Buck' raids which were empty prestige for the RAF.
TSR2s have 2 great strengths - great range & very robust undercarriages.
Atlantic Conveyor carried temporary runway;construct an air-head on South Georgia & from there attack mainland airbases & ∴stop nearly all raids on UK ships.
UK deaths & casualties drop massively.
A job well done.
cyrillicsam 2 years ago
Cool video, it's a fantastic looking aircraft. I'm sure if we'd have built it it would have been retired in the late 90s, but what would have replaced it would have started to be phased in at the beginning of the 90s, rather than the Tiffie at the beginning of the 2000s. I reckon the loss of TSR.2 set us back 10yrs...
KrisRamJ 2 years ago
Not sure about setting us back 10 years. Let us not forget what the TSR2 was all about. High level bombers were finished against a warsaw pact enemy or anyone else with missiles. TSR2 was designed to fly at tree top height at mach 2!!!
:-o
That essentially made it a stealth bomber - nothing could possibly intercept it. Actually, the whole concept died with it - today stealth bombers rely on a small radar signature to get through. I'm sure if TSR2 had been ordered we would have a TSR3 by now...
SAHBfan 2 years ago
I mean like the video says itself the aircraft was from 1960's designs i'd of rather of seen the F111K go into RAF service but due to defence cuts that to was a no go to. Thanks alot Harold wilson
phoenix27flame 3 years ago
Don't forget that twat Dennis Healy.
theredraven 2 years ago
The thing is that even if the TSR2 had been produced it probably would of been retired now anyway
phoenix27flame 3 years ago
I'm not sure, you know. The Aussies are still running the F111 and if they come to their senses about the long range strike inadequacies of the F35 in comparison, they may run it on yet.
lesserspottedgrebe 2 years ago
Thanks for this. Its ashame that this aircraft was betrayed by the ignorance of government. What could have been indeed.
I always find the TSR.2 and F-20 (F-5G) to share the same tragic fates,great potential aircraft. Sadly the Australian Govt could have saved both in selecting them for service at key times. Instead we got F-4 Phantoms and then eventually the F-111's. And instead of the F-20, the F/A-18 which in essence was an adaption of a Northrop design any how. Politics is cruel.
ringworks 3 years ago
a super design but I think the UK just didn't have the funding to carry on, same with the Canadians with their Avro jet airliner on 1952..better now with airbus competing strongly..I hope airbus gets the tanker contract instead of the unwanted 767 from boeing...:)
granskare 3 years ago
Woah, I really liked the video. Nice piece of work for a flight sim video, but my only question is, which flight sim was it made on? Microsoft Flight Sim, X-plane 8/9??? Cheers, flanker.
Flanker414 3 years ago
Shame it's only been in, like, three video game.
peepeevagi 3 years ago
First Sim video I really liked, but then the subject is TSR-2... 2nd half music, well not to my taste, but hey!
Nice thought that - when F-111 structural problems, cost overruns and re-design crisis occurred, that we might have twisted 'their' arms for once, to buy one of ours - and of course like all EE designs, was spot-on straight off the drawing board.
Twin fins someone said a few pages back - what on earth for, had great lateral stability and control as it was.
TheHarryMann 3 years ago
Stunning!
fundiebasher 3 years ago
great work on this video. I like it.
loreztaken 3 years ago
that was great!
CJ7with285andt18 3 years ago
WOW! Beautiful video. forgetnatly, the TSR2 isn't completely gone/forgotten. XR220 and XR222 both made it into preservation while at a VA i belong to, they operate 2 improved TSR2 under the designation TSR2X and TSR2XB.
trainfan5 3 years ago
That was one very classy bit of work. Me likee very much.
ges2005 3 years ago
Like another video I have seen on this great aircraft, it has brought me to tears. If this project wasn't cancelled, I guarantee that this plane would still be in service today, probably even equipping the USAF. It's potential was so great, that only the F-117 can come close in some respects. But as a first strike aircraft, it was perfection.Fact is, the Tornado only does some of the jobs that this plane was desinged to do. This plane was a true multi role combat aircraft. Even now, we miss it.
hartcliffer 3 years ago
Great video and a even greater plane also wants the song called by the way.
APACHE666666 3 years ago
I seriously doubt if the yanks would have had NASA using one of our planes but you can dream eh? :)
Arcmate 3 years ago
I don't normally like watching FS videos, but that was bloody brilliant. Realy enjoyed it, editing was fab and choice of music was good too.
Leezyjet 3 years ago
Hmmm... Disregard the Merlin Video, I posted it by mistake... Soz!
The other I've tweaked, with a few new clips and replaced the original sound track with Linkin Park's 'No More Sorrow'...
Secudus 3 years ago
I designed the NASA scheme for a 1/72 decal for the Airfix kit that was obviously the inspiration for that one - AWESOME! Great video!
jrheilig 3 years ago
What game is that?.
driftability 3 years ago
In black. Stunning!
deephorse 3 years ago
Beautiful video.
gracko14 3 years ago
Great video, just imagine a twin vertical
stabilizer,it would not look out of place to day
peterwhizz 3 years ago
This is a superb piece of work. Faultless. I often wonder what TSR2 would have been named. The Tornado was called the Panavia MRCA originally so I suppose TSR2 would have been given a name too. Any ideas?
Arcmate 3 years ago
Tempest? Brimstone? How about Crusader II as we're fighting the muslims nowadays?
adendorff1879 3 years ago
You mean helping them. Fighting organizations within middle eastern counries.
randomusernamemygod 3 years ago
Who'd want to help them? Not me! I'd rather we could use the TSR.2 to bomb terrorists to oblivion.
adendorff1879 3 years ago
So what do you think is happening in Iraq and Afhganistan, re-building the country and helping the people.
randomusernamemygod 3 years ago
A mistake, that's what. We should be bombing them with a huge fleet of TSR.2s. Doing what TSR.2s were designed to do...obliterate the heathen!
adendorff1879 3 years ago