Hello Mega, You sound like may Africans who point to Western countries as role model, that is total illusion. The good role models that we Africans can enthusiastically emulate are Asian Nations. Westerners are built on invasions, looting and war cards, but Asians are self-made nations, which started from scratch. American democracy and judicial system are joke, the only thing they have is people, very powerful individuals. changing leaders is not a big deal, than having effective one’s
@kirundo1 first of all, i did not say that western nations are saints but also, you will not convince me that the east is any better. have you tried to scrutinize chinese business deals in africa? may be I should suggest you watch katanga business documentary. Having said that, i do concur that Asia, despite having known colonialism just as Africa, has actually risen to build a viable economy when in Africa we digressed.
@kirundo1 But again, as long as we have a self aggrandizing attitude as yours: i am better than my neighbour or our ethnic is better than your or our country better than our neighbour, we will still lag behind since no matter what we can try to build, we will be building on shifting sand.
@MegaKingleo1 There is some thing that I noticed from this short period of time I took to exchange with you: you don’t feel comfortable to reveal your origin!!!!!! You keep taking me to Burundi, but I asked you before and, I’m asking you once more: what is your nationality?
@kirundo1 I refered you to Burundi since those two countries are way much similar than any other example i might come up with. Again, i do not see why you are obsessed with my nationality. how is it going to advance your historical fact?
@MegaKingleo1 You can conclude that I’m short of arguments, and that’s your absolute right. I’m not arguing you, rather exchanging. It means that I can learn from you and vice versa. I never debated with “gotch ya” in my head. I always believe in power of cooperation and partnership rather than confrontational one. If you think that I wanted to prove you wrong, then you are wrong. All I do is two things: 1 is to defend my point, the other is learn from any one
@MegaKingleo1 I knew from the beginning that we’ll finally reach a middle ground. Even if we still don’t see things the way about Kagame, I believe that we’ll agree on many facts. About Rwanda and Africa, believe me when I tell you that it’s frustrating and has nothing to do with colonial powers. I did many travelling around this globe and we need to accept openly our failures, may be we can learn from them.
@MegaKingleo1 Rwandan sense of superiority is even different in its sense, from the universal sense and use. We Rwandans use it for our own benefits. For instance, we use to control our kids in the sense that they avoid bad behaviors for not being called inferior and that had helped us more than you can imagine. It has become like a tool to use in controlling or motivation. I don’t know how can I put it out for you to understand it the same way we do, but it’s not disrespectful to others.
@MegaKingleo1 About Kagame, it can take even a month debating about that, but the bottom line is that many Westerners or Amnesty International don’t really get the whole picture about Kagame. We Rwandan refugees know Kagame better than any body else, and there will never be another genocide even after 30 years. Yes Kagame was among the highest officers, but was NOT among the first chosen to lead. For many reason though, it came down to him, and he’s performing well in that capacity.
@MegaKingleo1 If you remember correctly my first entry in this whole thing, I wrote that if those incompetent leaders would have been in different field other than leadership, we could be all living well. That was not confrontational or disrespectful, it was rather frustration for having leaders who can not lead us to prosperity. If you know Rwanda enough, we Rwandans don’t disobey orders based on leader’s ethnic background, it’s always political.
@kirundo1 i understand your frustration, i have been there, it is disappointig to have leaders without a vision, But i was ticked of when you tended to raise rwanda to an other status while putting down every other african. the other thing is when your tendancy to view hutus as incompetent as if they were any different from their contemporaries when they were on power.
@MegaKingleo1To respond to your question about knowing every thing, is NO. but I’m talking about some thing I can prove. Let me give you an example: we grow up as refugees in many places and were never been happy to be outside of our country. Long story short, in 1987 we initiated dialogue with Habyarimana, to facilitate our return in our country. Habyarimana at 60% accepted that idea, but never been able to convince his lieutenants.
@MegaKingleo1 We, I mean Rwandan refugees, tried to go back to Rwanda peacefully because it was in our best interests since we had had many successes in our host countries, like Uganda, Congo, Burundi and elsewhere. Habyarimana himself is the one who pinned highest military ranks on the shoulder of the late RPF commandant Fred Rwigema, in Uganda. Habyarimana met all high ranking Ugandans of Rwandan origin, and they asked him politely in Military tradition to facilitate that repatriation.
@MegaKingleo1 During all that time, the pressure was mounting among Rwandan refugees who thought that senior officers in Ugandan Army don’t want to go back because they got good life. But that was social frustration based on typical civilian assumptions. Habyarimana was not really extremist but was too weak to confront the extremist Hutu elements in his entourage, especially from his wife’s corner. The rest in two sides agreeing in disagreeing, and all of us paid heavy price.
@MegaKingleo1 Now you see, our destruction could have been prevented without even the foreign help or intervention, but here we are, no winner but loser. I don’t have to read that from a White person and I don’t see how can we relate all that to White people? You and I can agree on things that are of mutual benefits without abandoning our ways of life. Two Hutu presidents were enough to have prevented that destruction. That’s where my argument is
@kirundo1 I do understand your point of view. It is hard to live in a foreign land as a refugee, it is hard to be robbed, denied and deprived ones identity, right of return, it is wrong to be deprived the right of citizenship. yes, i do feel you. And i totally agree with a people when they rise up to demand their basic right and that's exactly what you did.
@kirundo1 the problem i had with you in your narrative is that you viewed Rwandan as superior to other african, it went further, from my opinion, you branded a whole ethnic group as incompetent. Then it degenerated to a point where you say one thing and later you blame others using the same concept you were denouncing.
@kirundo1 The serious disagreement we had is that you do not want to put Rwanda in the global and african context, treating it as an island that is immune to external influence and above all refusing to see the various phases that post colonial africa has undergone and the impact it had on local policies and politics. That's where we disagreed. well, i guess i need some bed. got to work
@kirundo1 Asians have a sense of respect to each other, a strong cultureand a sense of unity and support. We are riddled in divisions, ethinicity, nepotism and favoritism, we will make one step forward and 3 backward and distruction and poverty will always be at our doors
Ariko se ubundi bwo aba bagyeze k'ubutegyetsi bate, ko gutegyeka atari ibyabo? Iyo bikomereza mu bindi nk'ubuhunzi, ubukanishi.......... ntituba twese tubayeho neza? Every thing happens for reason, I just don't know what was the reason for these folks to hold power.
@kirundo1 What are the qualifications to hold power according to you? Going by your statement, what do Hutus lack to be excellent leaders? was Rwanda worse compared to other african countries when Hutus were on power? if they had no leadership skills, how come Tutsi continued where Hutus left off rather than starting from the scratches.
The most powerful qualifications to hold power are wisdom, vision and self-esteem to name few, and you don’t have to graduate from Western Universities to acquire those characters. Hutu leaders have shown, time and time again, to lack those qualities and the reason is so simple: qualified and pragmatic Hutu leaders have never been given any chance to lead. Tutsi leaders rose to power from aristocratic families, but Hutu leaders came from broken families. We don't even know their parents
@kirundo1 You said that one needs self esteem, vision and wisdom to hold power,i assume Tutsi's were deprived of the same when they lost power in Rwanda in 1959 if that is the premise of your argument. If holding power is the end itself, i am inclined to believe that all democratic states in the west have no vision, wisdom or self esteem since there is succession every few years. I am not sure where you get your theory but holding onto power is the very reason Africa has wars hence poor
You said is that the most pragmatic Hutu leaders were never given a chance to lead...i agree with you. How could they be given a chance to lead in a country whose institution were based on seclusion long before the white man came along. Are you suggesting that the same family based leadership was willing to let a Hutu become the king. If not, then at least you have subscribed to a mea culpa. wherever you get the aristocratic argument am convinced that kagame isn't one of it.
You said that Hutu leaders have shown time and time again that they no leadership skills. i wonder how you measure your time. Since Hutu took over Rwanda until their over throw, it was a span of 30 years. i am not sure what you expected within such a short period from a a people who took over a country that, due to colonialism, had no graduate,no qualified doctor, no university, no army...and all over a sudden become a super modern state.
@kirundo1 Rwanda by far was even much better governed compared to most African state. infrastructures: roads, telephone, electricity, school & health systems were better maintained, well functioning. You should appreciate that the post colonial Africa was at formation stage where it was trial and error and that Rwanda was not an exception. Your time and time again is actually time warped
This is not to say that Hutu don’t produce great leaders, but the good one’s are lost between the rivalry conflicts between aristocratic Tutsi sinecure and thug-like Hutu political opportunists. Just look carefully at the leadership of Kayibanda, then Habyarimana; you would definitely agree with me that those were not the best Hutu could offer, for leadership. You made a great point when you said that Tutsi leaders continued from where Hutu's left off. That's the way it supposed to be.
@kirundo1 When you mention that great Hutu leaders are lost between rivalry conflicts between Tutsi's and Hutus, then you agree with me that the problem is not actually about competency but power struggle and societal problem leadership is assigned not to the most competent but the the strongest. If you base your statistical probabilities on how competent Hutus can be on two people out of millions, then i am left wondering on what school you attended.
@MegaKingleo1 Listen my friend, I don’t have to graduate from University in order to fully understand Rwanda, my country. That is the illusion that encompassed many Black Africans who up to this time believe with their whole hart, the history as it is written by Whites. From 1959 to 1994, we could have done a lot better had we had visionary leaders. Jawaharlar Nehru did it in India. Kayibanda was put in power by Belgium’s but they missed the target in Burundi. Get the facts my friend.
@kirundo1 i never said that everything we read in history is 100% true. however, it is true that what ever we read in history has some truth in it. beside, if i don't read history as it was written by the whiteman when he came to rwanda in the 18th century, who else should i read. May be you should direct me on writings left by your forefathers so i can compare.
@kirundo1 Rwanda just as the rest of Africa has no choice but to rely on what was written by others since us ourselves didn't have a writing culture a 100 years ago. Then you mentioned of Kayibanda with some Indians, how about comparing him with Micombero who was also Tutsi that took over after the King? How about comparing habyarimana with Bagaza and Museveni? definetly those latter two did not outshine habyarimana in terms of economic performance or even managerial skills.
@kirundo1 so Belgians missed the target in Burundi? where do you get your facts? what if that's how they had designed the succession and mode of power distribution in Ruanda-Urundi? all you are saying is speculation with no facts! As of that Indian first of all you should know that india is almost twice as old as Rwanda. The colonialist powers had different style of governance and a different vision of the future. So just dropping names and a superficial evaluation is just misleading
@MegaKingleo1 My statistical probabilities are on individualism when it comes to leadership, two are plural, just one is enough to turn things around, positively or negatively. Kayibanda and Habyarimana were enough to lead us into prosperity, all we need is to complete one another rather than compete against each other. Do you this that the change, taking place in Rwanda is made by Kagame or led by him? There's a huge difference between making some thing and leading the way to making some thing
@kirundo1 I agree with you that one person can make a difference but when you start branding a whole ethnic of incompetency due to two people who took over by force and self appointed as leaders, then you open yourself to a debate. Funny enough you mentioned Kagame. When did Kagame take over? well in the 90's. over 30 years after rwanda had gained independence and over 30 years the white man's attitude towards the negro had changed.
@kirundo1 he took over when Africa was actually discovering itself, when may people who were born at the dawn of independance were graduating from universities with new ideas and new visions of where their countries should go. He took over when the western attitude on african governements was moving from supporting dictatorship to encouraging democracies. Then you compare him and his team with people who took over when few blacks had any formal qualifications due to colonial oppression.
@MegaKingleo1 Yes I agree totally with you that Rwanda is and will always be part of Africa, but the difference between us we Rwandans and many on this continent of ours, using as example, we Rwandans don’t feel ashamed to mention where we come from, but you could not have the guts to proudly say where you from. That is what we call in Rwanda: Agaciro ( Audacity )
@kirundo1 Your first part on this post and the latter are just disconnected. Since when did africans other than rwanda feel ashamed. If you are reffering to this conversation, i have my own reasons, and the reasons are that my origin have no bearing on the discussion. As of Audacity, i wonder if you had the same before 1994. I know quite a number of your people ho didn't and i know quite a number from your other ethnic who don't. There is aways two sides on the coin
@MegaKingleo1 We Rwandans have made mistakes and we did earn them, we had flaws but tried to fix ourselves and still trying, we had a horrible genocide but moved from it with a lesson. With all that, we Rwandans can never be ashamed of saying who we are, despite any thing. You can’t even have the pride of revealing your origin to me, but then you want to debate me? Bizarre.
Now you get the clear picture about where we Rwandans get our self-esteem from? From the fact that we are may be the only Blacks who don’t feel shy about revealing their identity. I asked you to tell me your nationality, you feel shy. That’s how and why many like you were rounded by Arabs into servitude. You need to walk tall, with head high. I’m trying to have a self-made proud interlocutor, at no avail. What’s wrong with you guys. Just say like we do or repeat after me: I’m.......... Rwandan
@kirundo1 I did not feel shy to tell who i am however, i felt it unnecessary and with no bearing in the debate. i am proud of who i am and hell, i think no people who are prouder of who they are and proud of their country as congolese. I have met many rwandans in different spheres of life, and they are far from being what you are saying!
@kirundo1 funny thing is, you moved from the debate to the trivial. should i conclude that you are short of argument that you are trying to me me rwandan...under no circumstance i would be cought dead rwandan. i do respect them tho, well, at least those with a tamed ego. You don't look like one!
@kirundo1 how many doctorate degree holders are in rwanda now and how many were there in 1960? not even doctorate, just a degree! rwanda like i said is part of the african story. Almost every african country got independence with no competent leaders due to oppression, it has taken 30-40 years for a new generation of leaders, with skills,education, and know how to rise and take over and that's why accross the continent there are changes.
@MegaKingleo1 All we Rwandans need is leadership that creates a conducive environment in which every individual could become productive. Previous leaders could have done it, but they were less qualified. Put our problems apart, and tell me if we really need 100 leaders in order to turn things around positively? I don’t think so. Just one patriotic, competent, visionary leader is enough in Rwanda. All we need is unity only, and nothing more. there's no society that never had flaws in the past
@kirundo1 It's not just a rwandan discovery or invention, it's a continental reality. We don't need 100 leaders to to productive but also you can't rule out that development is a process in itself. The west did not become prosperous in 30 years, it took them 300 years to be where they are today. You said rwanda had less qualified leaders, have you ever asked yourself why? and analyse the socio-political environment they lived in?
@kirundo1 Kayibanda grew up when whites were restricting any competion hence rationing education, Habyarimana came from the same mold, took over at a time when africa was experimenting with military leadership and you blame the Hutu for trial and error when the whole of africa was in the same process! Also, even a 100 leaders can still lead a country to prosperity.countries in the west are close to that number and it never hindered them to move ahead! Actually, am not fond of the one man's style
@MegaKingleo1 I never questioned the competence of Hutu leaders in general, but I did question it in particular to those who already had it, not on presidential level alone, but in every sector of our society. Hutu had control of entire nation for almost a half century, but failed to solve previous mistakes, but tried to correct them by making different one’s. I agree that Rwanda had flaws long before White people arrive in the country, but we need to solve them, not to continue them
@kirundo1 First of all, you are amplifying time, hutus were on power a little over a 1/4 centrury. Tutsi were and are on power for 5 centuries, what have they done to the country that's different from what other african countries in similar conditions are doing? Trying to impress the gallery that Rwanda is doing wonders is just an egostatistical.
@kirundo1 if you look at the African level, not only rwanda but the whole of Africa is experimenting new ways of doing business that's why the economic growth is in Africa. Again, i get amazed when you panda on Hutus in rwanda and gets quiet on tutsi in Burundi who were doing the same things as Rwanda at the same times in the history on those two countries and with the same results. Hummm, should i say that you are practising double standards?
@MegaKingleo1 My theory of wisdom, self-esteem and vision does come the fact that those who overthrew Rwandan Monarch were the very same people that the monarch was count on, to counter-attach European dominance. Rwanda refused long before, the dominance of Westerners but was eager to benefit from them, that is where we made mistakes. We did not foresee the manipulation of our own young people against us. All those Hutu did not come from out, they were students in Rwanda under monarch.
@MegaKingleo1 Tell me why the Rwandan Monarch was overthrown by Hutu, but the Burundian one was overthrown by Tutsi? I don’t want to elaborate for you, I just want to read from you about this one.
@MegaKingleo1 Kagame is not from aristocratic family just because of the events of 1959 that turned many well-to-do Rwandans into destitute, but him and many more around him have Rwandan utopian ideals, whether you agree or not. I’m not trying to teach you or vice versa, but the bottom line is that we all have contributed to our own destruction, and must do the opposite. It's very hard now to live in Rwanda like before where leaders never believed in social overlapping.
@kirundo1 I do not contest that kagame is trying to improve the economy, just like all other african in their 40's meaning born shortly after independence, most have ideals on where they want their countries to go and their younger brothers have even wilder and better ideas and are even more conversant with technology than their predecessors. each generation has its time to implement its idea. the tragedy is that in rwanda or burundi, these ideas were underlined with an ethnic flavor
@MegaKingleo1 You know what? I gave up my quest to know your nationality, there’s reason you can’t reveal it and I have to respect that. Here’s what you need to know about Rwanda now: we are not like those others you mentioned. Please quit comparing us to this and that, we Rwandans don’t like that. We don’t like some one to define us. I’m the one to say that comparison, and not you. All you said are behind us, we don’t believe that Africa was or will be shaped by Whites only.
@kirundo1 It's interesting that you say that you don't like to be compared but incessantly, you compare yourself to others by raising yourself up and treating others as beneath you. when challenged, you run saying that comparison isn't part of you.
@kirundo1 You should note that i wasn't even defining you, i was justing pointing out that rwanda isn't what you have, probably with the rest of your people, in your imagination. your story, success or failures is part of the african story. i do not believe that africa will be shaped by whites but also, i do not believe that rwanda is any different from the rest of us
@MegaKingleo1 you keep saying Whites before and Whites after. You are attributing every mistake to Whites, and every recovery to Whites. We Rwandans don’t believe that. We made colossal mistakes before and we still making them up to this moment. Just forget blaming any thing to Whites, then we can have a professional debate. If Whites told HABYARIMANA to say that Rwanda is small and can’t accept Tutsi, why then the same Whites don’t tell KAGAME the same?
@kirundo1 There is enough blame to assign to everyone. However, it is interesting that you blame me for blaming whites during colonial times as well as neocolonialism. The suprising part is that you blame the same white saying that they gave rwanda to hutus and failed to do so. Also, i am surprised that you think kagame got to power by himself. Do you know how much money war cost?
@kirundo1 do you think uganda by its self with its struggling economy had enough money to wage a 4 year war against rwanda. What was the financial and military assistance from UK and US? how about the financial and military assistance from france, did kagame have a gun's factory or does uganda manufacture weapons?
@kirundo1 where do they come from and who paid and under what terms? all this ending in one country and you have the guts to say that whites have no part in rwandan story. I never said white are the only people to blame but they are also part if the story. As of Congo blaming others for political interferance, i do not have to elaborate on that, just search on any scholarly article and investigative reports. I don't write them by the way. yes, whites and us africans have some blame in this
@kirundo1 You should know that one was a civilian who didn't last on power where as the other was a military man who took the country by force. how hard is it for you to understand that coup d'etat do not hold public consultation or vote on who should lead.
@kirundo1 it is interesting that you say that Hutu's can't be leaders and then you turn around and say that Tutsi continued where Hutu left of simply because that's how it should be. One can continue from where the other left of if the first doer was on the right path else, it becomes demolishing and starting all over. Again, rwanda was not an island in Africa and forces and politics of of the time 1962-1990 were well in tune was the post colonial Africa.
@kirundo1 So quit treating Rwanda as if it was supposed to be any different. It's like saying that rwanda was not supposed to be a colony where as the the rest of Africa was. Rwanda both in pre and post colonial times is a reflection of the african reality and it evolution even in its present state is exactly what the rest of Africa is or becoming
Look at UMUGANDA, that was started by Habyarimana, but Kagame continued that tradition. That is the way we supposed to be sorting out problems out. Starting from scratch blindly takes us back. We supposed to be correcting our past mistakes while building on an already accomplished milestone to move forward quickly. If President Kayibanda and Habyarimana could have corrected the mistakes of the past Monarchs, we’d be far ahead by now. But they led us to where we are now: killing each other
@kirundo1 At least in this case you admit that the monarch hence the Tutsi also had their own mistakes. this is in contrary with your initial statement that Hutus are not good in governing where as Tutsi are. while on the same case, could u tell me how Tutsis in Burundi changed the country into a first world if only Tutsi are the most qualified leaders. Burundi since time immemorial way up to 1993 was a Tutsi state and yet it wasn't any different from Rwanda in its socio- economic state.
Your hypothetical question as to how Rwanda is different from other African countries? I’m assuming you are a Rwandan, but if you aren’t, here are few differences: Rwanda up to this moment is the most capable self-made and governing society in the whole continent; from every aspect of Rwandan existence. We are poor yes, but that has not even made us succumb to any invasion. The only society on African Continent to never lost a single person to slavery, due to well-organized governing system
@kirundo1 First of all am not Rwandan but i am from the region, when you say that Rwanda is the only self made and governing society on the whole continent, what do you mean. Have you read the books of history. Rwanda just as the rest of Africa owes it`s current boundaries to the white person. You should know that even the current name is actually different from the original one which was Ruanda. So the rwandan existence again is not divorced from the African history and white domination
@MegaKingleo1 Okay, good. Now at least I know that you were talking about Rwanda from books written by Whites, and not from actually Rwandans who made the written. Now you see the difference between you and I? you are end user in this context, and I’m the maker, the producer. You read what a White Man wrote about me, but you can’t take it from me? Strange isn’t! Rwanda did not change a name from Ruanda to Rwanda, that’s not a name change, my friend, it a pronunciation correctness. That is 1.
@kirundo1 I do not see the difference between you and me since in historical issues,there are primary and secondary sources. yes i read books and i talked to people just the same way you did since you can't convince me that you were their in the colonial times,Kayibanda or habyarimana. Even now, you can't convince me that whatever happens in rwanda, you do witness it first account. Oneway or an other, you have to read and talk to people coz you can't be everywhere to see it yourself
@kirundo1 As of the change of name, having one letter altered on a name, just like having it changed completely, is in itself a change and has paper work,submitted to habilitated bodies. the same applies to a country. A country does not wake up one day and have letters changed, there is a process and it is a long one.
@kirundo1 Also, just as you have tried to rationalize the change such as its a pronounciation correctness,congolese also have their own little story. so there is always a story on why things happen, have you tried to find out for them what it is rather than judging them? .
@MegaKingleo1 My God grants you wisdom. I don’t have to thing about the reason that made Congolese change their county’s name, because they said the reason. It was irrelevant then, as it’s now to invest in changing names while marching backward. I just don’t get your point. You are justifying the failures and stupidities of humans. May be you don’t know that Human stupidity is INFINITE !!!!! All those leaders you mentioned were plain stupids. no Whites then and no Whites now.
@MegaKingleo1 One of many things KAGAME brought about in new Rwanda is: “QUIT BLAMING “. That is why KAGAME era will indeed go down in Rwandan history as an ERA that ended ERROR. Quit blaming Whites, or Blacks or Asians. PLEASE QUIT BLAMING. The more you blame some body, the easier it gets to forget your share in that blame. That is what made us survive every thing until we came back to our Home Land: Rwanda. We never blamed any body, NEVER . never blamed Whites or Asians or our Hosts
@kirundo1 Seems like you don't quit blaming Hutus on the genocide! so where does it stop? never blamed any body when you were blaming kayibanda and habyarimana....are you suffering from amnesia?
@MegaKingleo1 I have never seen a White person getting in my way of doing what I want, but I always hear that such and such went wrong because of White people. We Rwandans don’t believe in that non sense. How can you know the cause of problem but fail to prevent it or correct it? You sound like Congolese who say that Rwanda is stilling their minerals and rebuilding Rwanda, but they fail to use the same minerals to build Congo? That’s INFINITE stupidity and the cause is that culture of BLAMING
@kirundo1 like i said, congolese are not the sole custodian of blame. Infact, that word "blame" is not even of a congolese origin! also, throughout this conversation, i over and over again, i read you blaming this or that on this or that and all over a sudden, you have become a man that blames no one. Even Paul on the damscus road did not experience such a conversation! But again, may be contradiction are part of the rwandan reality!
@MegaKingleo1 2: Burundi fought a vicious battle against Arab slave catchers led by: RUMARIZA and Burundians defeated Arabs, same goes to Rwandans. 3: Rwanda was not invaded, but Belgium was appointed as Tutor, there was not even a single bullet fired, and that was based on the agreement that Whites won’t disrupt Rwandan governing system. We were already well organized more than Belgium’s but under-developed. we even initiated the independence of three countries: Congo, Burundi and Rwanda
@kirundo1 As of Rumariza (Mohamed Bin khalfan), he actually setteled in the Buzige (current Bujumbura) and controled the whole Imbo region from his residence in Magara. He was removed by the help of white people. also, you should know that slavery started in the 16th century and that by the 1885 when khalfan got to burundi, in many countries, importation of slaves was oulawed. the US outlawed it in 1865 and so are many countries in the Americas.
@kirundo1 Your mythic battle and prevention of slave importation is just a construction. You mentioned that Belgium was appointed as tutor and that no bullet was fired. you make it sound like rwandans were consulted when in real facts, they got passed over to belgium like a basket of beans.
@kirundo1 The germans invaded, fought anything that stood their way, then established their rule and when they got beaten by their bothers, their properties including rwanda were handed over to others. If that's not an invasion story, then i wonder how you define invasion.You initiation of independance for three countries is even weider.
@kirundo1 Congo got independance in 1960, how could rwanda that was still a colony initiate independance for a country that was independant before it. Who is your independance father to begin with? the other historical error you made is saying that rwanda was tutored in trio with Congo Rwanda Burundi.
@MegaKingleo1 Knowing your nationality is not obsession, it’s normal in debate. Historical facts from End-users ( those who read about it) are way different from the Maker ( those who made it). It’s not the same to discuss a historical fact of Burundi with a Russian citizen or a Ugandan who read about it in books but never been in Burundi, than talking to a Burundian citizen who live in Burundi. Now you get my obsession of knowing your nationality?
@MegaKingleo1 All you have said is based on what you read. I told before, and I’m repeating it: you are end-user in the sense of just hitting books and then spread the news. Just because they were written by Westerners, you just approve it! You see, my debate is around personal accountability, and nothing more. You took me North and South, but my concern is PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. That is what we lack the most, and that is what we have now in Rwanda, and that sets Kagame positively apart
@kirundo1 talking about reading, I challenged you with a question on whether you are present on every corner to witness every happening, I am yet to get the answer! if you are not God to be omnipotent, then to some extent, you have to read. By reading, that makes you a reader and going to western university or an african one still boils down to the same thing. Rwandan universities are modeled to western university and knowledge is shared among them so, what's your point?
@MegaKingleo1 Once you have a leader with wisdom and vision, and the audacity to lead from front, that is accountability and we never had those leaders before, moreover, you don’t need to graduate from West to have those leadership values or qualities. Kayibanda and Habyarimana both lacked those qualities, but yet played the HUTU card indefinitely to gain constituents, just to end up in social-political ditch. That has nothing to do with White people. That’s where my argument is.
@kirundo1 I will not engage again in kayibanda and habyarimana, if you want to know my opinion on them, may be you should scroll up.As of kagame, history will judge him. it's too early to say. In the same way, seems like those who knew him, stood by him when he was still a nobody are actually denouncing his incompetency. Again, his iron fist rule does not inspire me. And if Rwanda keeps going the way it does, it won't take another 30 years before another blood bath has taken place.
@kirundo1 All politicians play cards that help them gain constituancies and Kagame is not different from those who went before him. How much real power do Hutu hold in Rwanda/ all international agencies including amnisty international, human right, Hutu Rwandan have over and over again pointed out the stiffling nature of the randan politics on the person of a hutu. Tell me of a different leadership!
@kirundo1 Several errors in this claim: congo was not under tutelage, it was a full colony, Ruanda-Urundi formed one district with one resident and was under tutelage (colonialism by proxy). Your well organized compared to the Belgium is yet to be proven!
@MegaKingleo1 You need to know that Rwanda was tutored by Belgium in trio ( Congo-Leopoldville-Burundi-Rwanda ) but Europeans feared to attach Rwanda and Burundi to Congo, because they were aware of Burundi and Rwanda in terms of organization skills. The White’s man math was: if Rwanda and Burundi are attached to Congo, Whites will face ferocious resistance; therefore, they left Burundi and Rwanda alone, and went for Congo, because Congo was unorganized lawless vast rich land.
@kirundo1 It makes me wonder when you say that Congo was vast and lawless. first of all, Congo, just like rwanda, was a colonial creation. before the berlin conference in 1885, rwanda just as well as congo didn't have current boundaries and it was a conglomeration of varius kingdoms that were fighting each other. How could congo be lawless when it was not in existance in the first place.
@kirundo1 When it came to be, how could it be lawless when the white man had it on its knees, imposing his law, marching his army and dispensing justice.Congo is vast because the white man wanted it to be vast. If they wanted it small in 1885, they could have made it small.
@MegaKingleo1 You should have the courage to tell me where you originated from, as I did tell you who am I, then I can explain to you. Why can’t you have the guts to say proudly where you are from? That is another difference between us we Rwandans and the rest, in spite of any thing, it’s impossible to see a Rwandan hiding his/her origin. Tell me where you are from, then lets go form there. Just say it, don’t hide it
@kirundo1 As of my origins, first of all i am proud of me and i never refused to say where i come. i believe that it has no bearing on the subject under discussion. We are talking of historical facts and my origins in no way contributes to the debate. If you have a fact to present, it can be presented with or without having my name, address, country... stated.
@kirundo1 What you have as explanation can still be done despite else, if you have to change the story depending on who i am, your story becomes subjective Also, your mythic Rwandan is just in your imagination since i have met quite a number that are not proud of Rwanda, unless you want to call them non Rwandans
@kirundo1 the other thing you mentioned is the self governing, you should be aware that given the size of rwanda, it should be normal that a more or less uniformed governing style was possible.This is not different from other kingdoms in africa that occupied almost same size of territories but whose white man`s boundaries lumped them together with other kingdoms hence forming huge countries. Beside, the kingdom of Rwanda isn`t even among the powerful and known kingdoms and empires in Africa.
@kirundo1 So, Rwanda never succumbed to any invasion. where do you read your history. As far as the books are concerned, Rwanda was part of the Aest Africa German territory, then the Belgian protectorate. If this wasn`t invasion by foreign powerswhere they even defined the limitations the king`power rendering him a messengers whose actions were limited to transmit the wishes of the master in Berlin and belgium, then i wonder what is invasion to you
@kirundo1 If Rwanda never contributed slaves, it is not because of governing system, it is its remoteness ( deep inside the continent) and a late discovery. You should not that the mode of transport up to early 20th century was navigation and Rwanda is far away from any ocean. Burundi which is deep inside was discovered in late 19th century by Arabs and this was due to lake Tanganyika. Also, by the time Burundi was discovered, slavery was falling into disfavour in the West. Quit building myth
We never faced starvation, no epidemics or pandemics’, we don’t need foreigners to secure us or to show us how to do things except in technological fields. All we need is a little push economically, and that’s it. I swear God, if we had had those minerals you see around in Africa, we would be running Europe today. Have you ever heard any Rwandan ( Hutu or Tutsi) complaining about racism or segregation? NEVER. That’s because we believe so much in ourselves to the highest point you would imagine
@kirundo1 Your argument on starvation, epidemic and pandemics are quite amusing. may be you should read medical admission reports from Mulago hospital in Uganda between 1950-1961. You should also research on famine in the 1940 in Ruanda-Urundi. As a rwandan, you have such an ego that you give an impression that Rwandans are the only people in Africa that are endowed with leadership skills when for thousand of years they haven`t shown any difference from the rest of the continent.
@kirundo1 Your question about racism from Rwandan people is even weirder. How can people of the same race (the negroid race) complain about racism among themselves. Yes, i have heard rwandans complaining of racism when they met the caucasoid and mongoloid in the west and Europe. As of ethnicity, well, rwanda is the champion and proof is in the pudding; Genocide! talk of believing in yourself when you can`t agree on who should lead what!
@kirundo1 So the self starting, self believing, self reliant brief the advanced people all over a sudden becomes not economically advanced and self sustaining and are also technologically backward! i wonder what is your thought processes when you write all these contradictions
Look at Nigeria, the most powerful Black nation on earth, but its citizens are killed in Libya on live TV broadcast, and Nigeria never said any thing about their innocent citizens who were caught between Libya national conflicts, the same goes to Mali, Ghana. Did you see that Ethiopian nanny who was brutally burned by the Gaddafi’s? if that was a Rwandan girl, we would have requested Interpol arrest. But let me take you to another topic just to show you how Rwanda is unique:
@kirundo1 As much as I do not support the kilings of our brothers in Libya, your claim that if they were Rwandan, you would have requested an interpol arrest is even laughable. To arrest who. Who runs the interpol, isn`t it the west. yet the west are the once who were arming the rebels who were also killing those poor africans. Dude, you make me laugh.
@kirundo1 What do you think Rwanda is. NOTHING! proof is, 800 hundred thousands were killed and the world just watched. Why, Rwandans mean nothing to the west. Just an other bunch of niggers who are hungry and need hand outs to pay their civil servants and run the country How do you know that there were no Rwandans in Libya.
Just look at Senegal, when France wanted to honor Africa in the name of Leopord Sedar Senghor, France dedicated a powerful University in his name, but Egyptians convinced France that Africans will destroy it, thus it should be built in Egypt. Now, that prestigious university in honor of “ Enfant Negre “ ( Nigro Child ) is built in Alexandria, Egypt; and country that forbids a Black journalist to appear on national TV. If SENGHOR were Rwandan, that university would never has been built in Egypt.
@kirundo1 the more i read you, the more am inclined to believe that you are on joint. Who paid for the construction of the memorial. If it was Senegalese, then i will agree with you that it makes no sense to beuild it in Egypt. lets take it closer to home. How come the International criminal justice on Rwanda put office in Tanzania. Weren`t the atrocities committed in Rwanda. how come its not in Rwanda. Simple: you do not dictate those who have the money where they use it. Quit blaming others
Look at Congo, all they can do is to change names from Zaire to Congo from Congo Leopoldville. Their minerals are managed by foreigners, and some end up in Rwandan market. Angola is managed by Portuguese and Asians. Zimbabwe up to this moment had never been able to sort out national problems, and don’t get me started about South Africa. The bottom line is this: the Eldorado environment is not measured in GDP alone, and if that is your standard, then give us just 15 years more from today
@kirundo1 You talk of name changing, Rwanda isn`t any different. t started with Ruanda, then Ruanda-urundi when joined to burundi by the invader then Rwanda after independance. Even the flag kept changing! As of foreigners profiteering from African wealth, you should have known that colonialism was replaced by neocolonialism. Rwanda is not any different since it operates under the directions of the Americans and European.
@kirundo1 For your information, Angola is the fasted growing economy in the world, SA is the largest economy on the continent and it will take light years from Rwanda to catch up, Zimbabwe is the victim of neo colonialism and mismanagement that are linked to . Overall, Africa is changing. If anything, it is the only place on earth where the economy is growing above world average.
@kirundo1 In 10 countries whose economies are rising faster in the world, half are African! by the way, Rwanda doesn t appear there. i am not saying rwanda isn t doing well economically, all am saying is, it doing doing well in the new african economic dynamic. not as an island or a separate entity but as a part in the bigger picture. and Your ego is just too big!
@kirundo1 How is Rwanda different from other African countries which by the way are not lead by Tutsi (definetly not an eldorado). Burundi which was lead by Tutsis since time immemorial to 1993, how different was it from Rwanda? With ideas like yours, we are still light years away from peace and prosperity.
ntekereza ko uno mugabo yashaka ko intambara itaba mu rwanda aba yarayibujije aliko kubera politike ye yo kuvangura abanyarwanda no kubuza impunzi gutahuka byatumye RPF INKOTANYI bafata intwaro barwanira uburenganzira bwabo nk'abanyarwanda. byatumye abanyarwanda benshi batakaza ubuzima bwabo kandi bitali ngombwa. mu ngaruka mbi z'iyo ntambara halimo itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi nyuma y'urupfu rwa nyakwigendera HABYALIMANA
Kinani kweli. Ubu aho ari yibaza iki uwamuha akarunguruka uko dutuye muRwanda twe kandi atari ruto, dukwiye twese. Dore ngo imana irahana! nkubu Imana yatangirirahe ihana uyumugabo bangamwabo, Narebe Kanziga we aho yumiye mumahanga, abana be se, abambari be, uresteko Leta yubumwe nabo basabye imbabazi baza bakabaha imbabazi da, igihano kyo kwica cyavuyeho...Imagine these fools to prohibit others to come home...
SURELY YOU LEFT BEHIND A PLAN THAT COULD ALLOW YOUR CHOSEN ONES TO FIT IN RWANDA WHILE AS YOU PLANNED TO DO AWAY WITH THOSE WHO OVER POPULATED THE COUNTRY. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU PLAN DIDN'T MATERIALIZE AS YOU WISHED. HOPE THE MOST HIGH IS STILL AWAKE AND YOU HAVE ALOT TO TELL HIM.
Hello Mega, You sound like may Africans who point to Western countries as role model, that is total illusion. The good role models that we Africans can enthusiastically emulate are Asian Nations. Westerners are built on invasions, looting and war cards, but Asians are self-made nations, which started from scratch. American democracy and judicial system are joke, the only thing they have is people, very powerful individuals. changing leaders is not a big deal, than having effective one’s
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 first of all, i did not say that western nations are saints but also, you will not convince me that the east is any better. have you tried to scrutinize chinese business deals in africa? may be I should suggest you watch katanga business documentary. Having said that, i do concur that Asia, despite having known colonialism just as Africa, has actually risen to build a viable economy when in Africa we digressed.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 But again, as long as we have a self aggrandizing attitude as yours: i am better than my neighbour or our ethnic is better than your or our country better than our neighbour, we will still lag behind since no matter what we can try to build, we will be building on shifting sand.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 There is some thing that I noticed from this short period of time I took to exchange with you: you don’t feel comfortable to reveal your origin!!!!!! You keep taking me to Burundi, but I asked you before and, I’m asking you once more: what is your nationality?
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I refered you to Burundi since those two countries are way much similar than any other example i might come up with. Again, i do not see why you are obsessed with my nationality. how is it going to advance your historical fact?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 I, am a Rwandan born and raised in Burundi. What about you?
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I am Congolese, born and raised in Burundi. Does that satisfy your curiosity
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 You can conclude that I’m short of arguments, and that’s your absolute right. I’m not arguing you, rather exchanging. It means that I can learn from you and vice versa. I never debated with “gotch ya” in my head. I always believe in power of cooperation and partnership rather than confrontational one. If you think that I wanted to prove you wrong, then you are wrong. All I do is two things: 1 is to defend my point, the other is learn from any one
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 At least this comment is well thought! for once you have restore faith in the rwandan imagination
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 I knew from the beginning that we’ll finally reach a middle ground. Even if we still don’t see things the way about Kagame, I believe that we’ll agree on many facts. About Rwanda and Africa, believe me when I tell you that it’s frustrating and has nothing to do with colonial powers. I did many travelling around this globe and we need to accept openly our failures, may be we can learn from them.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Rwandan sense of superiority is even different in its sense, from the universal sense and use. We Rwandans use it for our own benefits. For instance, we use to control our kids in the sense that they avoid bad behaviors for not being called inferior and that had helped us more than you can imagine. It has become like a tool to use in controlling or motivation. I don’t know how can I put it out for you to understand it the same way we do, but it’s not disrespectful to others.
kirundo1 4 months ago
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kirundo1 4 months ago
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kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 About Kagame, it can take even a month debating about that, but the bottom line is that many Westerners or Amnesty International don’t really get the whole picture about Kagame. We Rwandan refugees know Kagame better than any body else, and there will never be another genocide even after 30 years. Yes Kagame was among the highest officers, but was NOT among the first chosen to lead. For many reason though, it came down to him, and he’s performing well in that capacity.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 If you remember correctly my first entry in this whole thing, I wrote that if those incompetent leaders would have been in different field other than leadership, we could be all living well. That was not confrontational or disrespectful, it was rather frustration for having leaders who can not lead us to prosperity. If you know Rwanda enough, we Rwandans don’t disobey orders based on leader’s ethnic background, it’s always political.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 i understand your frustration, i have been there, it is disappointig to have leaders without a vision, But i was ticked of when you tended to raise rwanda to an other status while putting down every other african. the other thing is when your tendancy to view hutus as incompetent as if they were any different from their contemporaries when they were on power.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1To respond to your question about knowing every thing, is NO. but I’m talking about some thing I can prove. Let me give you an example: we grow up as refugees in many places and were never been happy to be outside of our country. Long story short, in 1987 we initiated dialogue with Habyarimana, to facilitate our return in our country. Habyarimana at 60% accepted that idea, but never been able to convince his lieutenants.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 We, I mean Rwandan refugees, tried to go back to Rwanda peacefully because it was in our best interests since we had had many successes in our host countries, like Uganda, Congo, Burundi and elsewhere. Habyarimana himself is the one who pinned highest military ranks on the shoulder of the late RPF commandant Fred Rwigema, in Uganda. Habyarimana met all high ranking Ugandans of Rwandan origin, and they asked him politely in Military tradition to facilitate that repatriation.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 During all that time, the pressure was mounting among Rwandan refugees who thought that senior officers in Ugandan Army don’t want to go back because they got good life. But that was social frustration based on typical civilian assumptions. Habyarimana was not really extremist but was too weak to confront the extremist Hutu elements in his entourage, especially from his wife’s corner. The rest in two sides agreeing in disagreeing, and all of us paid heavy price.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Now you see, our destruction could have been prevented without even the foreign help or intervention, but here we are, no winner but loser. I don’t have to read that from a White person and I don’t see how can we relate all that to White people? You and I can agree on things that are of mutual benefits without abandoning our ways of life. Two Hutu presidents were enough to have prevented that destruction. That’s where my argument is
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I do understand your point of view. It is hard to live in a foreign land as a refugee, it is hard to be robbed, denied and deprived ones identity, right of return, it is wrong to be deprived the right of citizenship. yes, i do feel you. And i totally agree with a people when they rise up to demand their basic right and that's exactly what you did.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 the problem i had with you in your narrative is that you viewed Rwandan as superior to other african, it went further, from my opinion, you branded a whole ethnic group as incompetent. Then it degenerated to a point where you say one thing and later you blame others using the same concept you were denouncing.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 The serious disagreement we had is that you do not want to put Rwanda in the global and african context, treating it as an island that is immune to external influence and above all refusing to see the various phases that post colonial africa has undergone and the impact it had on local policies and politics. That's where we disagreed. well, i guess i need some bed. got to work
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Asians have a sense of respect to each other, a strong cultureand a sense of unity and support. We are riddled in divisions, ethinicity, nepotism and favoritism, we will make one step forward and 3 backward and distruction and poverty will always be at our doors
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
byibura wowe ntutukana! ntiwatukanaga!
matrix6524 4 months ago
byibura wowe ntutukana!
matrix6524 4 months ago
Ariko se ubundi bwo aba bagyeze k'ubutegyetsi bate, ko gutegyeka atari ibyabo? Iyo bikomereza mu bindi nk'ubuhunzi, ubukanishi.......... ntituba twese tubayeho neza? Every thing happens for reason, I just don't know what was the reason for these folks to hold power.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 What are the qualifications to hold power according to you? Going by your statement, what do Hutus lack to be excellent leaders? was Rwanda worse compared to other african countries when Hutus were on power? if they had no leadership skills, how come Tutsi continued where Hutus left off rather than starting from the scratches.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
The most powerful qualifications to hold power are wisdom, vision and self-esteem to name few, and you don’t have to graduate from Western Universities to acquire those characters. Hutu leaders have shown, time and time again, to lack those qualities and the reason is so simple: qualified and pragmatic Hutu leaders have never been given any chance to lead. Tutsi leaders rose to power from aristocratic families, but Hutu leaders came from broken families. We don't even know their parents
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 You said that one needs self esteem, vision and wisdom to hold power,i assume Tutsi's were deprived of the same when they lost power in Rwanda in 1959 if that is the premise of your argument. If holding power is the end itself, i am inclined to believe that all democratic states in the west have no vision, wisdom or self esteem since there is succession every few years. I am not sure where you get your theory but holding onto power is the very reason Africa has wars hence poor
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
You said is that the most pragmatic Hutu leaders were never given a chance to lead...i agree with you. How could they be given a chance to lead in a country whose institution were based on seclusion long before the white man came along. Are you suggesting that the same family based leadership was willing to let a Hutu become the king. If not, then at least you have subscribed to a mea culpa. wherever you get the aristocratic argument am convinced that kagame isn't one of it.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
You said that Hutu leaders have shown time and time again that they no leadership skills. i wonder how you measure your time. Since Hutu took over Rwanda until their over throw, it was a span of 30 years. i am not sure what you expected within such a short period from a a people who took over a country that, due to colonialism, had no graduate,no qualified doctor, no university, no army...and all over a sudden become a super modern state.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Rwanda by far was even much better governed compared to most African state. infrastructures: roads, telephone, electricity, school & health systems were better maintained, well functioning. You should appreciate that the post colonial Africa was at formation stage where it was trial and error and that Rwanda was not an exception. Your time and time again is actually time warped
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
This is not to say that Hutu don’t produce great leaders, but the good one’s are lost between the rivalry conflicts between aristocratic Tutsi sinecure and thug-like Hutu political opportunists. Just look carefully at the leadership of Kayibanda, then Habyarimana; you would definitely agree with me that those were not the best Hutu could offer, for leadership. You made a great point when you said that Tutsi leaders continued from where Hutu's left off. That's the way it supposed to be.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 When you mention that great Hutu leaders are lost between rivalry conflicts between Tutsi's and Hutus, then you agree with me that the problem is not actually about competency but power struggle and societal problem leadership is assigned not to the most competent but the the strongest. If you base your statistical probabilities on how competent Hutus can be on two people out of millions, then i am left wondering on what school you attended.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Listen my friend, I don’t have to graduate from University in order to fully understand Rwanda, my country. That is the illusion that encompassed many Black Africans who up to this time believe with their whole hart, the history as it is written by Whites. From 1959 to 1994, we could have done a lot better had we had visionary leaders. Jawaharlar Nehru did it in India. Kayibanda was put in power by Belgium’s but they missed the target in Burundi. Get the facts my friend.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 i never said that everything we read in history is 100% true. however, it is true that what ever we read in history has some truth in it. beside, if i don't read history as it was written by the whiteman when he came to rwanda in the 18th century, who else should i read. May be you should direct me on writings left by your forefathers so i can compare.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Rwanda just as the rest of Africa has no choice but to rely on what was written by others since us ourselves didn't have a writing culture a 100 years ago. Then you mentioned of Kayibanda with some Indians, how about comparing him with Micombero who was also Tutsi that took over after the King? How about comparing habyarimana with Bagaza and Museveni? definetly those latter two did not outshine habyarimana in terms of economic performance or even managerial skills.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 so Belgians missed the target in Burundi? where do you get your facts? what if that's how they had designed the succession and mode of power distribution in Ruanda-Urundi? all you are saying is speculation with no facts! As of that Indian first of all you should know that india is almost twice as old as Rwanda. The colonialist powers had different style of governance and a different vision of the future. So just dropping names and a superficial evaluation is just misleading
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 My statistical probabilities are on individualism when it comes to leadership, two are plural, just one is enough to turn things around, positively or negatively. Kayibanda and Habyarimana were enough to lead us into prosperity, all we need is to complete one another rather than compete against each other. Do you this that the change, taking place in Rwanda is made by Kagame or led by him? There's a huge difference between making some thing and leading the way to making some thing
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I agree with you that one person can make a difference but when you start branding a whole ethnic of incompetency due to two people who took over by force and self appointed as leaders, then you open yourself to a debate. Funny enough you mentioned Kagame. When did Kagame take over? well in the 90's. over 30 years after rwanda had gained independence and over 30 years the white man's attitude towards the negro had changed.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 he took over when Africa was actually discovering itself, when may people who were born at the dawn of independance were graduating from universities with new ideas and new visions of where their countries should go. He took over when the western attitude on african governements was moving from supporting dictatorship to encouraging democracies. Then you compare him and his team with people who took over when few blacks had any formal qualifications due to colonial oppression.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Yes I agree totally with you that Rwanda is and will always be part of Africa, but the difference between us we Rwandans and many on this continent of ours, using as example, we Rwandans don’t feel ashamed to mention where we come from, but you could not have the guts to proudly say where you from. That is what we call in Rwanda: Agaciro ( Audacity )
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Your first part on this post and the latter are just disconnected. Since when did africans other than rwanda feel ashamed. If you are reffering to this conversation, i have my own reasons, and the reasons are that my origin have no bearing on the discussion. As of Audacity, i wonder if you had the same before 1994. I know quite a number of your people ho didn't and i know quite a number from your other ethnic who don't. There is aways two sides on the coin
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MegaKingleo1 I’m a Rwandan born and raised in Burundi. What about you?
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 We Rwandans have made mistakes and we did earn them, we had flaws but tried to fix ourselves and still trying, we had a horrible genocide but moved from it with a lesson. With all that, we Rwandans can never be ashamed of saying who we are, despite any thing. You can’t even have the pride of revealing your origin to me, but then you want to debate me? Bizarre.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Rwandans learned from their genocide! make me laugh!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 I’m telling you proudly that I’m Rwandan. Who are you? Where you come from? Just curious
kirundo1 4 months ago
Now you get the clear picture about where we Rwandans get our self-esteem from? From the fact that we are may be the only Blacks who don’t feel shy about revealing their identity. I asked you to tell me your nationality, you feel shy. That’s how and why many like you were rounded by Arabs into servitude. You need to walk tall, with head high. I’m trying to have a self-made proud interlocutor, at no avail. What’s wrong with you guys. Just say like we do or repeat after me: I’m.......... Rwandan
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I did not feel shy to tell who i am however, i felt it unnecessary and with no bearing in the debate. i am proud of who i am and hell, i think no people who are prouder of who they are and proud of their country as congolese. I have met many rwandans in different spheres of life, and they are far from being what you are saying!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 funny thing is, you moved from the debate to the trivial. should i conclude that you are short of argument that you are trying to me me rwandan...under no circumstance i would be cought dead rwandan. i do respect them tho, well, at least those with a tamed ego. You don't look like one!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 how many doctorate degree holders are in rwanda now and how many were there in 1960? not even doctorate, just a degree! rwanda like i said is part of the african story. Almost every african country got independence with no competent leaders due to oppression, it has taken 30-40 years for a new generation of leaders, with skills,education, and know how to rise and take over and that's why accross the continent there are changes.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 All we Rwandans need is leadership that creates a conducive environment in which every individual could become productive. Previous leaders could have done it, but they were less qualified. Put our problems apart, and tell me if we really need 100 leaders in order to turn things around positively? I don’t think so. Just one patriotic, competent, visionary leader is enough in Rwanda. All we need is unity only, and nothing more. there's no society that never had flaws in the past
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 It's not just a rwandan discovery or invention, it's a continental reality. We don't need 100 leaders to to productive but also you can't rule out that development is a process in itself. The west did not become prosperous in 30 years, it took them 300 years to be where they are today. You said rwanda had less qualified leaders, have you ever asked yourself why? and analyse the socio-political environment they lived in?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Kayibanda grew up when whites were restricting any competion hence rationing education, Habyarimana came from the same mold, took over at a time when africa was experimenting with military leadership and you blame the Hutu for trial and error when the whole of africa was in the same process! Also, even a 100 leaders can still lead a country to prosperity.countries in the west are close to that number and it never hindered them to move ahead! Actually, am not fond of the one man's style
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 I never questioned the competence of Hutu leaders in general, but I did question it in particular to those who already had it, not on presidential level alone, but in every sector of our society. Hutu had control of entire nation for almost a half century, but failed to solve previous mistakes, but tried to correct them by making different one’s. I agree that Rwanda had flaws long before White people arrive in the country, but we need to solve them, not to continue them
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 First of all, you are amplifying time, hutus were on power a little over a 1/4 centrury. Tutsi were and are on power for 5 centuries, what have they done to the country that's different from what other african countries in similar conditions are doing? Trying to impress the gallery that Rwanda is doing wonders is just an egostatistical.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 if you look at the African level, not only rwanda but the whole of Africa is experimenting new ways of doing business that's why the economic growth is in Africa. Again, i get amazed when you panda on Hutus in rwanda and gets quiet on tutsi in Burundi who were doing the same things as Rwanda at the same times in the history on those two countries and with the same results. Hummm, should i say that you are practising double standards?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 My theory of wisdom, self-esteem and vision does come the fact that those who overthrew Rwandan Monarch were the very same people that the monarch was count on, to counter-attach European dominance. Rwanda refused long before, the dominance of Westerners but was eager to benefit from them, that is where we made mistakes. We did not foresee the manipulation of our own young people against us. All those Hutu did not come from out, they were students in Rwanda under monarch.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Tell me why the Rwandan Monarch was overthrown by Hutu, but the Burundian one was overthrown by Tutsi? I don’t want to elaborate for you, I just want to read from you about this one.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Kagame is not from aristocratic family just because of the events of 1959 that turned many well-to-do Rwandans into destitute, but him and many more around him have Rwandan utopian ideals, whether you agree or not. I’m not trying to teach you or vice versa, but the bottom line is that we all have contributed to our own destruction, and must do the opposite. It's very hard now to live in Rwanda like before where leaders never believed in social overlapping.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I do not contest that kagame is trying to improve the economy, just like all other african in their 40's meaning born shortly after independence, most have ideals on where they want their countries to go and their younger brothers have even wilder and better ideas and are even more conversant with technology than their predecessors. each generation has its time to implement its idea. the tragedy is that in rwanda or burundi, these ideas were underlined with an ethnic flavor
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 You know what? I gave up my quest to know your nationality, there’s reason you can’t reveal it and I have to respect that. Here’s what you need to know about Rwanda now: we are not like those others you mentioned. Please quit comparing us to this and that, we Rwandans don’t like that. We don’t like some one to define us. I’m the one to say that comparison, and not you. All you said are behind us, we don’t believe that Africa was or will be shaped by Whites only.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 It's interesting that you say that you don't like to be compared but incessantly, you compare yourself to others by raising yourself up and treating others as beneath you. when challenged, you run saying that comparison isn't part of you.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 You should note that i wasn't even defining you, i was justing pointing out that rwanda isn't what you have, probably with the rest of your people, in your imagination. your story, success or failures is part of the african story. i do not believe that africa will be shaped by whites but also, i do not believe that rwanda is any different from the rest of us
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 you keep saying Whites before and Whites after. You are attributing every mistake to Whites, and every recovery to Whites. We Rwandans don’t believe that. We made colossal mistakes before and we still making them up to this moment. Just forget blaming any thing to Whites, then we can have a professional debate. If Whites told HABYARIMANA to say that Rwanda is small and can’t accept Tutsi, why then the same Whites don’t tell KAGAME the same?
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 There is enough blame to assign to everyone. However, it is interesting that you blame me for blaming whites during colonial times as well as neocolonialism. The suprising part is that you blame the same white saying that they gave rwanda to hutus and failed to do so. Also, i am surprised that you think kagame got to power by himself. Do you know how much money war cost?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 do you think uganda by its self with its struggling economy had enough money to wage a 4 year war against rwanda. What was the financial and military assistance from UK and US? how about the financial and military assistance from france, did kagame have a gun's factory or does uganda manufacture weapons?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 where do they come from and who paid and under what terms? all this ending in one country and you have the guts to say that whites have no part in rwandan story. I never said white are the only people to blame but they are also part if the story. As of Congo blaming others for political interferance, i do not have to elaborate on that, just search on any scholarly article and investigative reports. I don't write them by the way. yes, whites and us africans have some blame in this
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 You should know that one was a civilian who didn't last on power where as the other was a military man who took the country by force. how hard is it for you to understand that coup d'etat do not hold public consultation or vote on who should lead.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 it is interesting that you say that Hutu's can't be leaders and then you turn around and say that Tutsi continued where Hutu left of simply because that's how it should be. One can continue from where the other left of if the first doer was on the right path else, it becomes demolishing and starting all over. Again, rwanda was not an island in Africa and forces and politics of of the time 1962-1990 were well in tune was the post colonial Africa.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 So quit treating Rwanda as if it was supposed to be any different. It's like saying that rwanda was not supposed to be a colony where as the the rest of Africa was. Rwanda both in pre and post colonial times is a reflection of the african reality and it evolution even in its present state is exactly what the rest of Africa is or becoming
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
Look at UMUGANDA, that was started by Habyarimana, but Kagame continued that tradition. That is the way we supposed to be sorting out problems out. Starting from scratch blindly takes us back. We supposed to be correcting our past mistakes while building on an already accomplished milestone to move forward quickly. If President Kayibanda and Habyarimana could have corrected the mistakes of the past Monarchs, we’d be far ahead by now. But they led us to where we are now: killing each other
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 At least in this case you admit that the monarch hence the Tutsi also had their own mistakes. this is in contrary with your initial statement that Hutus are not good in governing where as Tutsi are. while on the same case, could u tell me how Tutsis in Burundi changed the country into a first world if only Tutsi are the most qualified leaders. Burundi since time immemorial way up to 1993 was a Tutsi state and yet it wasn't any different from Rwanda in its socio- economic state.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
Your hypothetical question as to how Rwanda is different from other African countries? I’m assuming you are a Rwandan, but if you aren’t, here are few differences: Rwanda up to this moment is the most capable self-made and governing society in the whole continent; from every aspect of Rwandan existence. We are poor yes, but that has not even made us succumb to any invasion. The only society on African Continent to never lost a single person to slavery, due to well-organized governing system
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 First of all am not Rwandan but i am from the region, when you say that Rwanda is the only self made and governing society on the whole continent, what do you mean. Have you read the books of history. Rwanda just as the rest of Africa owes it`s current boundaries to the white person. You should know that even the current name is actually different from the original one which was Ruanda. So the rwandan existence again is not divorced from the African history and white domination
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Okay, good. Now at least I know that you were talking about Rwanda from books written by Whites, and not from actually Rwandans who made the written. Now you see the difference between you and I? you are end user in this context, and I’m the maker, the producer. You read what a White Man wrote about me, but you can’t take it from me? Strange isn’t! Rwanda did not change a name from Ruanda to Rwanda, that’s not a name change, my friend, it a pronunciation correctness. That is 1.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I do not see the difference between you and me since in historical issues,there are primary and secondary sources. yes i read books and i talked to people just the same way you did since you can't convince me that you were their in the colonial times,Kayibanda or habyarimana. Even now, you can't convince me that whatever happens in rwanda, you do witness it first account. Oneway or an other, you have to read and talk to people coz you can't be everywhere to see it yourself
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 As of the change of name, having one letter altered on a name, just like having it changed completely, is in itself a change and has paper work,submitted to habilitated bodies. the same applies to a country. A country does not wake up one day and have letters changed, there is a process and it is a long one.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Also, just as you have tried to rationalize the change such as its a pronounciation correctness,congolese also have their own little story. so there is always a story on why things happen, have you tried to find out for them what it is rather than judging them? .
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 My God grants you wisdom. I don’t have to thing about the reason that made Congolese change their county’s name, because they said the reason. It was irrelevant then, as it’s now to invest in changing names while marching backward. I just don’t get your point. You are justifying the failures and stupidities of humans. May be you don’t know that Human stupidity is INFINITE !!!!! All those leaders you mentioned were plain stupids. no Whites then and no Whites now.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 So you have a right to justify your name change and others have no reason to justify theirs. What a moron!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 One of many things KAGAME brought about in new Rwanda is: “QUIT BLAMING “. That is why KAGAME era will indeed go down in Rwandan history as an ERA that ended ERROR. Quit blaming Whites, or Blacks or Asians. PLEASE QUIT BLAMING. The more you blame some body, the easier it gets to forget your share in that blame. That is what made us survive every thing until we came back to our Home Land: Rwanda. We never blamed any body, NEVER . never blamed Whites or Asians or our Hosts
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Seems like you don't quit blaming Hutus on the genocide! so where does it stop? never blamed any body when you were blaming kayibanda and habyarimana....are you suffering from amnesia?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 I have never seen a White person getting in my way of doing what I want, but I always hear that such and such went wrong because of White people. We Rwandans don’t believe in that non sense. How can you know the cause of problem but fail to prevent it or correct it? You sound like Congolese who say that Rwanda is stilling their minerals and rebuilding Rwanda, but they fail to use the same minerals to build Congo? That’s INFINITE stupidity and the cause is that culture of BLAMING
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 like i said, congolese are not the sole custodian of blame. Infact, that word "blame" is not even of a congolese origin! also, throughout this conversation, i over and over again, i read you blaming this or that on this or that and all over a sudden, you have become a man that blames no one. Even Paul on the damscus road did not experience such a conversation! But again, may be contradiction are part of the rwandan reality!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 2: Burundi fought a vicious battle against Arab slave catchers led by: RUMARIZA and Burundians defeated Arabs, same goes to Rwandans. 3: Rwanda was not invaded, but Belgium was appointed as Tutor, there was not even a single bullet fired, and that was based on the agreement that Whites won’t disrupt Rwandan governing system. We were already well organized more than Belgium’s but under-developed. we even initiated the independence of three countries: Congo, Burundi and Rwanda
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 As of Rumariza (Mohamed Bin khalfan), he actually setteled in the Buzige (current Bujumbura) and controled the whole Imbo region from his residence in Magara. He was removed by the help of white people. also, you should know that slavery started in the 16th century and that by the 1885 when khalfan got to burundi, in many countries, importation of slaves was oulawed. the US outlawed it in 1865 and so are many countries in the Americas.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Your mythic battle and prevention of slave importation is just a construction. You mentioned that Belgium was appointed as tutor and that no bullet was fired. you make it sound like rwandans were consulted when in real facts, they got passed over to belgium like a basket of beans.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 The germans invaded, fought anything that stood their way, then established their rule and when they got beaten by their bothers, their properties including rwanda were handed over to others. If that's not an invasion story, then i wonder how you define invasion.You initiation of independance for three countries is even weider.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Congo got independance in 1960, how could rwanda that was still a colony initiate independance for a country that was independant before it. Who is your independance father to begin with? the other historical error you made is saying that rwanda was tutored in trio with Congo Rwanda Burundi.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Knowing your nationality is not obsession, it’s normal in debate. Historical facts from End-users ( those who read about it) are way different from the Maker ( those who made it). It’s not the same to discuss a historical fact of Burundi with a Russian citizen or a Ugandan who read about it in books but never been in Burundi, than talking to a Burundian citizen who live in Burundi. Now you get my obsession of knowing your nationality?
kirundo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 All you have said is based on what you read. I told before, and I’m repeating it: you are end-user in the sense of just hitting books and then spread the news. Just because they were written by Westerners, you just approve it! You see, my debate is around personal accountability, and nothing more. You took me North and South, but my concern is PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. That is what we lack the most, and that is what we have now in Rwanda, and that sets Kagame positively apart
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 talking about reading, I challenged you with a question on whether you are present on every corner to witness every happening, I am yet to get the answer! if you are not God to be omnipotent, then to some extent, you have to read. By reading, that makes you a reader and going to western university or an african one still boils down to the same thing. Rwandan universities are modeled to western university and knowledge is shared among them so, what's your point?
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I do not know your personal accountability, until you publish a book that has been peer reviewed, don't expect me to know it.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 Once you have a leader with wisdom and vision, and the audacity to lead from front, that is accountability and we never had those leaders before, moreover, you don’t need to graduate from West to have those leadership values or qualities. Kayibanda and Habyarimana both lacked those qualities, but yet played the HUTU card indefinitely to gain constituents, just to end up in social-political ditch. That has nothing to do with White people. That’s where my argument is.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 I will not engage again in kayibanda and habyarimana, if you want to know my opinion on them, may be you should scroll up.As of kagame, history will judge him. it's too early to say. In the same way, seems like those who knew him, stood by him when he was still a nobody are actually denouncing his incompetency. Again, his iron fist rule does not inspire me. And if Rwanda keeps going the way it does, it won't take another 30 years before another blood bath has taken place.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 All politicians play cards that help them gain constituancies and Kagame is not different from those who went before him. How much real power do Hutu hold in Rwanda/ all international agencies including amnisty international, human right, Hutu Rwandan have over and over again pointed out the stiffling nature of the randan politics on the person of a hutu. Tell me of a different leadership!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Several errors in this claim: congo was not under tutelage, it was a full colony, Ruanda-Urundi formed one district with one resident and was under tutelage (colonialism by proxy). Your well organized compared to the Belgium is yet to be proven!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 You need to know that Rwanda was tutored by Belgium in trio ( Congo-Leopoldville-Burundi-Rwanda ) but Europeans feared to attach Rwanda and Burundi to Congo, because they were aware of Burundi and Rwanda in terms of organization skills. The White’s man math was: if Rwanda and Burundi are attached to Congo, Whites will face ferocious resistance; therefore, they left Burundi and Rwanda alone, and went for Congo, because Congo was unorganized lawless vast rich land.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 It makes me wonder when you say that Congo was vast and lawless. first of all, Congo, just like rwanda, was a colonial creation. before the berlin conference in 1885, rwanda just as well as congo didn't have current boundaries and it was a conglomeration of varius kingdoms that were fighting each other. How could congo be lawless when it was not in existance in the first place.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 When it came to be, how could it be lawless when the white man had it on its knees, imposing his law, marching his army and dispensing justice.Congo is vast because the white man wanted it to be vast. If they wanted it small in 1885, they could have made it small.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@MegaKingleo1 You should have the courage to tell me where you originated from, as I did tell you who am I, then I can explain to you. Why can’t you have the guts to say proudly where you are from? That is another difference between us we Rwandans and the rest, in spite of any thing, it’s impossible to see a Rwandan hiding his/her origin. Tell me where you are from, then lets go form there. Just say it, don’t hide it
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 As of my origins, first of all i am proud of me and i never refused to say where i come. i believe that it has no bearing on the subject under discussion. We are talking of historical facts and my origins in no way contributes to the debate. If you have a fact to present, it can be presented with or without having my name, address, country... stated.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 What you have as explanation can still be done despite else, if you have to change the story depending on who i am, your story becomes subjective Also, your mythic Rwandan is just in your imagination since i have met quite a number that are not proud of Rwanda, unless you want to call them non Rwandans
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 the other thing you mentioned is the self governing, you should be aware that given the size of rwanda, it should be normal that a more or less uniformed governing style was possible.This is not different from other kingdoms in africa that occupied almost same size of territories but whose white man`s boundaries lumped them together with other kingdoms hence forming huge countries. Beside, the kingdom of Rwanda isn`t even among the powerful and known kingdoms and empires in Africa.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 So, Rwanda never succumbed to any invasion. where do you read your history. As far as the books are concerned, Rwanda was part of the Aest Africa German territory, then the Belgian protectorate. If this wasn`t invasion by foreign powerswhere they even defined the limitations the king`power rendering him a messengers whose actions were limited to transmit the wishes of the master in Berlin and belgium, then i wonder what is invasion to you
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 If Rwanda never contributed slaves, it is not because of governing system, it is its remoteness ( deep inside the continent) and a late discovery. You should not that the mode of transport up to early 20th century was navigation and Rwanda is far away from any ocean. Burundi which is deep inside was discovered in late 19th century by Arabs and this was due to lake Tanganyika. Also, by the time Burundi was discovered, slavery was falling into disfavour in the West. Quit building myth
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
We never faced starvation, no epidemics or pandemics’, we don’t need foreigners to secure us or to show us how to do things except in technological fields. All we need is a little push economically, and that’s it. I swear God, if we had had those minerals you see around in Africa, we would be running Europe today. Have you ever heard any Rwandan ( Hutu or Tutsi) complaining about racism or segregation? NEVER. That’s because we believe so much in ourselves to the highest point you would imagine
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Your argument on starvation, epidemic and pandemics are quite amusing. may be you should read medical admission reports from Mulago hospital in Uganda between 1950-1961. You should also research on famine in the 1940 in Ruanda-Urundi. As a rwandan, you have such an ego that you give an impression that Rwandans are the only people in Africa that are endowed with leadership skills when for thousand of years they haven`t shown any difference from the rest of the continent.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 Your question about racism from Rwandan people is even weirder. How can people of the same race (the negroid race) complain about racism among themselves. Yes, i have heard rwandans complaining of racism when they met the caucasoid and mongoloid in the west and Europe. As of ethnicity, well, rwanda is the champion and proof is in the pudding; Genocide! talk of believing in yourself when you can`t agree on who should lead what!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 So the self starting, self believing, self reliant brief the advanced people all over a sudden becomes not economically advanced and self sustaining and are also technologically backward! i wonder what is your thought processes when you write all these contradictions
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
Look at Nigeria, the most powerful Black nation on earth, but its citizens are killed in Libya on live TV broadcast, and Nigeria never said any thing about their innocent citizens who were caught between Libya national conflicts, the same goes to Mali, Ghana. Did you see that Ethiopian nanny who was brutally burned by the Gaddafi’s? if that was a Rwandan girl, we would have requested Interpol arrest. But let me take you to another topic just to show you how Rwanda is unique:
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 As much as I do not support the kilings of our brothers in Libya, your claim that if they were Rwandan, you would have requested an interpol arrest is even laughable. To arrest who. Who runs the interpol, isn`t it the west. yet the west are the once who were arming the rebels who were also killing those poor africans. Dude, you make me laugh.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 What do you think Rwanda is. NOTHING! proof is, 800 hundred thousands were killed and the world just watched. Why, Rwandans mean nothing to the west. Just an other bunch of niggers who are hungry and need hand outs to pay their civil servants and run the country How do you know that there were no Rwandans in Libya.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
Just look at Senegal, when France wanted to honor Africa in the name of Leopord Sedar Senghor, France dedicated a powerful University in his name, but Egyptians convinced France that Africans will destroy it, thus it should be built in Egypt. Now, that prestigious university in honor of “ Enfant Negre “ ( Nigro Child ) is built in Alexandria, Egypt; and country that forbids a Black journalist to appear on national TV. If SENGHOR were Rwandan, that university would never has been built in Egypt.
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 the more i read you, the more am inclined to believe that you are on joint. Who paid for the construction of the memorial. If it was Senegalese, then i will agree with you that it makes no sense to beuild it in Egypt. lets take it closer to home. How come the International criminal justice on Rwanda put office in Tanzania. Weren`t the atrocities committed in Rwanda. how come its not in Rwanda. Simple: you do not dictate those who have the money where they use it. Quit blaming others
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
Look at Congo, all they can do is to change names from Zaire to Congo from Congo Leopoldville. Their minerals are managed by foreigners, and some end up in Rwandan market. Angola is managed by Portuguese and Asians. Zimbabwe up to this moment had never been able to sort out national problems, and don’t get me started about South Africa. The bottom line is this: the Eldorado environment is not measured in GDP alone, and if that is your standard, then give us just 15 years more from today
kirundo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 You talk of name changing, Rwanda isn`t any different. t started with Ruanda, then Ruanda-urundi when joined to burundi by the invader then Rwanda after independance. Even the flag kept changing! As of foreigners profiteering from African wealth, you should have known that colonialism was replaced by neocolonialism. Rwanda is not any different since it operates under the directions of the Americans and European.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 For your information, Angola is the fasted growing economy in the world, SA is the largest economy on the continent and it will take light years from Rwanda to catch up, Zimbabwe is the victim of neo colonialism and mismanagement that are linked to . Overall, Africa is changing. If anything, it is the only place on earth where the economy is growing above world average.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 In 10 countries whose economies are rising faster in the world, half are African! by the way, Rwanda doesn t appear there. i am not saying rwanda isn t doing well economically, all am saying is, it doing doing well in the new african economic dynamic. not as an island or a separate entity but as a part in the bigger picture. and Your ego is just too big!
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
@kirundo1 How is Rwanda different from other African countries which by the way are not lead by Tutsi (definetly not an eldorado). Burundi which was lead by Tutsis since time immemorial to 1993, how different was it from Rwanda? With ideas like yours, we are still light years away from peace and prosperity.
MegaKingleo1 4 months ago
ntekereza ko uno mugabo yashaka ko intambara itaba mu rwanda aba yarayibujije aliko kubera politike ye yo kuvangura abanyarwanda no kubuza impunzi gutahuka byatumye RPF INKOTANYI bafata intwaro barwanira uburenganzira bwabo nk'abanyarwanda. byatumye abanyarwanda benshi batakaza ubuzima bwabo kandi bitali ngombwa. mu ngaruka mbi z'iyo ntambara halimo itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi nyuma y'urupfu rwa nyakwigendera HABYALIMANA
itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi bagera kuli miliyoni
lechat100 5 months ago
Kinani kweli. Ubu aho ari yibaza iki uwamuha akarunguruka uko dutuye muRwanda twe kandi atari ruto, dukwiye twese. Dore ngo imana irahana! nkubu Imana yatangirirahe ihana uyumugabo bangamwabo, Narebe Kanziga we aho yumiye mumahanga, abana be se, abambari be, uresteko Leta yubumwe nabo basabye imbabazi baza bakabaha imbabazi da, igihano kyo kwica cyavuyeho...Imagine these fools to prohibit others to come home...
Chrisodeta 6 months ago
Kinani may your Soul rest in SHIT
51Kalimba 6 months ago
SURELY YOU LEFT BEHIND A PLAN THAT COULD ALLOW YOUR CHOSEN ONES TO FIT IN RWANDA WHILE AS YOU PLANNED TO DO AWAY WITH THOSE WHO OVER POPULATED THE COUNTRY. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU PLAN DIDN'T MATERIALIZE AS YOU WISHED. HOPE THE MOST HIGH IS STILL AWAKE AND YOU HAVE ALOT TO TELL HIM.
murangira1 8 months ago
i wish i know this language
bahamaboy25 9 months ago
Igendere gusa Kanyarengwe nizera neza ko aho ari atariho uli Mubyeyi...wazanye amahoro Kanyarengwe arayahunga Kagame aramwishura.Imana ikwifashirize dore na Rukokoma yaromonganye..
RWANDA4DEMOCRACY 1 year ago