Low Thia Khiang vs Christopher de Souza on GST Cut - 28 Feb2011

[votemiles]

De Souza is a worthless backbenching leech. The very epitome of a sycophant.

[limyengchuan]

Chris D Souza may be English speaking and a lawyer, but his grasp of the English language is pathetic compared to Mr. Low. LTK is asking for GST to be lowered for BASIC items. CDS rebuttal is rubbish. Aiyo....this lawyer CMI.

[SpecialNerfServices]

speaking of taxes, Can we total abolise the paying of income tax and raise GST to 10%? Will this benifined singaporean more?

[Notlisteningagain]

This garment everything also increase their pay also increase, no end. They are richer and all of us get poorer. The poor where got benefit ? What formular is that ? White idiot Robin hood .. you are rich good live now cos salary very high, your future generations because of you these good and capable ppl have died, will suffer for their lives. Where on earth you can have merry lifestyle in all your generations ? Fengshui changes. Watch out.

[lkf2005]

GST will keep going up till GST's building just like CPF's building, isn't it?

How else they could generate revenue to "benefit" the poor? The obvious fact is most goes to them without much efforts on their part!

[lmatthew]

@ 0.40 the minister is sleeping..

[clb012669]

We support you..Mr Low Thia Khiang!

[youziness]

the ultimate reason is increase gst to trade off with highest income tax bracket's decrease. Currently its 20% for 320,000/yr income. Used to be 21% and 5% gst, HK is 17%. SG wants to compete with HK in terms of lowest income tax and attracting the riches. Now SG can't increase gst further because of watershed election. LOL. The poor ain't happy with high gst.

[youziness]

I dont understand why PAP keep saying the tax did transfer to the poor, more likely transfer very little and far from optimum point. It don't mean rich always eat in restaurant, many of them eat 1 plate of chicken rice in hawker like the poor. The tax for basic items can be failed to capture this way. Better off to have 0 tax for basic items. PAP is defending its revenue to fund temasek, GIC and their salaries.

[corytan5]

@youziness yes agree with you. GST for basic necessities should be removed, GST for luxury can be raised to cover for this.

[scumofpluto]

Generally higher income group spend more on everything. This means total GST taxed from the higher income group is a large proportion of the total GST collected

GST would be unfair to the lower income group if there was no transfer. However govt do give a rebate to the poor that is significantly higher than the GST incurred by them. Furthermore taxes collected are often use to uplift the lower income group through skill training.

I interested in seeing solutions to higher HDB cost and FT

[isaaccyl280793]

If the government refuses to reduce GST, I have an alternative plan here. It is to implement negative income tax where an income earner earns below a certain threshold, the government will pay them, in proportion to their income deficit. This way, GST is neutralized for the poorer people and there is a guaranteed social security net at the bottom of our society.

[8zz8]

For the poor, essentials like food, medical and rent takes up 100% of income.

For the rich, such essentials takes up less than 10% of their income. The rest is spent on luxuries, trips, investment etc which can continue to be taxed.

For the poor, a $1 loaf of bread or a plate of rice may be all he can afford for 1 or 2 days. For the rich, he eats plain food only when he got sick of restaurant food and looks around for something novel to try.

[taylawrence]

wat rubbish... high income holders may pay more...but they can afford it dude...shit fer brains.... $10000 to a very rich man may be the equivalent of road tax on 3 of his cars...while $10 may mean less food from a poor mans table.... truely to support his party blindly at the expense of logic....the ultimate sacrifice to ones honor!

[wafflemint]

@corytans :) hello Fellow Singaporean.. I greatly understand what U r going through, Yeah I too don't ve a Credit card too but something gd better as compare to U is I ve insurance and the insurer is Lord KRSNA. At the age of 30 I learned that I will fall sick just like any others So I Learn SCIENCE OF HUMAN BODY, which now I don't depend on drugs, very proud to say I ve not visit any doctors for donkey years. My advise to U, Medical fees in SG is terrifying So Why don't U learn how to manag

[corytan5]

@wafflemint Hey! We have the same mentality. I have been largely self medicating, and learning how to handle my health without medication. I find that TCM also a lot more effective, and much cheaper alternative. Sometimes just some pi pa gao and some cooling tea does wonders to alleviate flu. I still do see a doctor, but it's about once every year or 2. Learning to balance our body is i guess the best lesson we owe to ourselves

[dannylimasia]

Competition is already working its magic with MOF saying that there is no need to increase gst in the near future. This is why competition usually leads to a better outcome. 

[bananaman22]

lowering gst actually benefits the poor much more than the rich.

this is proven in many other countries so im not too sure what this christopher guy is talking about.

not sure if hes heard of income tax before but maybe not

[titanlyy]

i will vote for the one that comes up with the.. "I THINK SG IS SERIOUSLY TAXING TOO MUCH ON TOBACCO TAX". i mean come on. seriously. $12/pack?

[teeaxjay]

@titanlyy HAHA thats the govt's effort to discourage unhealthy behavior whattt.

[Believermagic]

The opposition promise alot of things. but many of it never come true. WHY? cuz PAP dun wan lah. SO dun blame them if you get your 9% GST, lol. Blame PAP.

[teeaxjay]

@Believermagic PAP usually justifies their actions. Anyway please, go and compare to overseas GST. We dam low already

[holybun]

take from rich give to poor, well i am poor, i dont see no money coming in from them!

[teeaxjay]

@holybun I think PAP have to address that now aint it!

[gngshuling]

Mr. De Souza, sales taxes (like GST) hit the poor the hardest because the cost of basic necessities take up a large proportion of their income. Trickle-down effects often take a long time to manifest themselves, and you cannot control/predict when and where the money will trickle down to. The poor cannot afford to wait for their next meal or their next hospital visit. As an elected people's representative, you should be more empathic towards these ground issues!

[dannylimasia]

The rich pays more gst in absolute numbers but it is a relative smaller portion of their income. Therefore consumption tax such as the gst is known and empirically proven to be regressive. That's is why, the govt is redistributing the additional tax revenue to those severely affected. On efficiency grounds, such redistribution distorts the markets and create economic dead weight loss. From an economic perspective, we should all be better off with a lowered gst rate so that there is a reduced ne

[teeaxjay]

@dannylimasia I think the PAP's point is that though regressive, the revenue collected in by the GST increased in absolute terms, resulting in more income for the government to do good things for the people. Rich pay more in absolute terms but less then the poor in relative terms (that is correct), but when you redistribute these money unevenly to the people, the poor end up benefiting more.

[dannylimasia]

@teeaxjay - Collecting revenue only to redistribute to the lower income causes economic deadweight loss and is not efficient. A more efficient redistribution method is to tax luxury items (giffen goods) and to subsidize basic items such as food. Lower overall gst rates, tax giffen goods higher and raise the sin tax.

[corytan5]

The words "Benefit the poor" is just bullshit, words that have no evidence to back them up. A $2 plate of chicken rice cost the same to a rich or poor person. 1plate per day for 1 month is $60. For a person earning maybe $5000/mth, $60 is 1.2%. For a person earning $600/mth that's 10%!!!

Benefit the poor? The fact is that GST ensures that nobody in sg can escape paying taxes, even if their income is too low to pay income tax. They can't hit you there, they'll find another way to hit you.

[teeaxjay]

@corytan5 The poor probably would buy the 2 bucks chicken rice every day. But the Rich tend to spend on restaurants, depending on their capacity, up to $30 on a meal maybe? 7% on 30 bucks is more then 7% on 2 bucks. And not just food, what about other luxury goods that costs loads more.

And you think PAP wants to rob poor Singaporeans of money? Think again, the PAP led us through thick and thin for so many years., they are too smart to do that.

I come from a low-income family.

[corytan5]

@teeaxjay Yes they are too smart, to let most people know that they doing that. The income-expenditure curve from poor to rich isn't a straight line, but an exponential curve. Everything a poor person needs to spend on, house loans/rents, utilities bill, food, takes a huge chunk from their income, while someone with more money, such items cost them proportionally less. The rich can decide to eat cheap and save money, the poor don't.

Luxury items are an option, water from tap isn't.

[corytan5]

@teeaxjay You came from a low-income family, I AM in one. I struggle to pay my house loans and bills and eat cheaply, many times limiting myself to 1 meal a day, in order to save some money, to pay for next mths bills. I can't afford personal insurance, I don't have a credit card, which gives you savings on this and that. I save what ever I can, in case I need to see the doctor. I applied to CDC to find me a better job with no response. Every month end my bank account has less than $20

[nickelbatx]

@corytan5 You are blaming the government for your own problems which arises from your lack in skills. They cannot give you a high income. You have to get it yourself by working hard an improving yourself. They try to help you get a job, but they cannot give you a job. This is life and you have to deal with that. Singapore cannot afford to pay for your daily expenses. At the end of the day, you are the one supposed to be doing that.

[corytan5]

@nickelbatx lack of skills? so after paying for a diploma education, many self funded certifications, advanced diplomas, and still only offered $1500/mth job. So may I ask, how far in debt are you willing to go before you can earn enough to cover for all your education and certification expenses, living expenses, a govt "subsidised" 3 room HDB flat, utilities bills?

Or it doesn't matter to you because your parents are paying all that for you?

[nickelbatx]

@corytan5 I understand your frustration that despite going for so many diplomas, you are still under skilled and offered a job that pays less than what a taxi driver earns. However, is that the governments fault? They can try to provide diplomas, but you are the one that needs to do well academically to take degrees or better and more useful diplomas to be able to be wanted by employers. The government provides the education, you work for your own job.

[corytan5]

@nickelbatx 1. Govt provides the education, who provides the money? the 60k or more to attend SMU?

2. I have my diploma, my skills, why are there no suitable jobs for me, while they keep hiring foreigners for the same jobs?

3. unlike foreigners, I cannot work for $800-$1000. HDB loan, bills, parents to support, you can say it's too bad I don't live on rupee or baht or rmb. So I cannot ask for so little money.

4. it's the govt's policy that caused this, so yes it's the govt's fault.

[nickelbatx]

@corytan5 1.Govt already subsidizes a huge part of the universities fees in Singapore. And to your question, the government does not provide the money. I know you're thinking of robbing the rich and giving it to the poor, but Singapore is not a welfare state. Accept that.

2. If they do not import foreign workers and labour is so expensive here, firms will just go to other countries and you won't even have a job in the first place.

3) Why don't you get a degree and sign on to army?

[corytan5]

@corytan5 it's an unwritten practice that if the govt sets a criteria for employment of certain positions, the rest of the industry follows suit. So if degree holders are sort after, and diploma holders are cast aside, it is not the fault of the jobless. Humans have varying skills and abilities. If the employment market only just wants BA grads, is that the punishment for being weak in academics, but good in other aspects, i.e. art, technical, etc?

[zqrobertlee]

Low Thia Khiang is at a disadvantage when it comes to debating in english

[MrBlackjack211]

"for the benefit of singaporeans"

i love PAP!

[kanzie88]

f off la abunene

[stone3791]

Don't think WP is asking to cut for all products, just fundamental items, like food, transportation, etc. The rich can continue to make their spending on luxuries and contributes to the government majority GST income to "benefits the poors". While the low-medium class citizens can at least save a bit when struggling to survive with necessity expenses. Hope the MP can listen carefully before giving a non-convincing defense.

[teeaxjay]

@stone3791 GST means Good and Services Tax and this applies to all Singaporean spending on Any Goods or Services. Or at least thats what I understood. Mr Low's point seems to indicate that GST is a regression tax that would would impose a greater burden on the poor than the rich in absolute terms. Correct me if I am wrong there. PAP's explanation is good enough for me. I don't want our leaders advocating populist policies that are harmful to the country in the long run.