MSS - Dublin, 5 June - Part 1 - Red underpants, sperm and testes

[squirreljester2]

How the hell I have not been subbed to this channel until now?!

[SolDeSaBelle]

(I arrive in the room at 11:22, with the backpack)

[SolDeSaBelle]

@TheMagicSandwichShow

I was there and it was awesome !

I missed the beginning, but all in all it was a great way to end this week end. Afterwards, we (me, AronRa, PZ Simmons and half a dozen others) tried to go find a pub in Dublin that would serve heathens at 11pm on a Sunday night, and pathetically failed, ending up in the hotel we came from in the first place. Then, PZ literally TELEPORTED himself into his room. (meaning, he disappeared without anyone noticing. He was quite tired I guess)

[luccaskunk]

"red underpants" in the title reminds me of the time I spent in the Order of the Golden Dawn before realizing it was all a bunch of bullshit and becoming an atheist. They insist that you have to wear red socks and no shoes inside their temples.

[sirjambo]

How can anyone deny islam is wrong when you know the man in red underpants?

It's the ULTIMATE miracle in islam!

[heloizyjhenifer]

The Seminal Vesicle is the place sperm as a liquid is produced.

[johncrab67]

Awesome

[marcarmstrong88]

if u live in any country in Europe u already new how great german economy is. its just so robust and yet still the 4th riches. maybe thats what happens when your country is not scared to elect a scientist

[SuperDESTROYER71]

Thanks for posting!

[rccaulfield]

very poor attendance no?

[pumpstations]

And Aronra Who requires no introduction.

Have you tried the black pudding? The Whiskey should help get the taste out of your mouth.

[krustofskie]

@pumpstations Black pudding is lovely, and originally its from the Black Country area of England, not Irish (if that's what you were presuming, I may be reading into things to much).

Anyhow Its a staple part of an English Breakfast and I love it.

[pumpstations]

@krustofskie Yes, Way too deep. Pardon me for the incorrect location. Was just thinking of things he would likely be trying for the first time. Thought they ate it in Ireland.

[HConstantine]

Its important to remember: 1) even the story Islam tells, is that Mohammed never wrote down the Koran. Rather, one of the early Caliphs ordered people who had heard him to write down what they had memorized of his recitations of the Koran about 20 years after his death.

2 ) Mohammed traveled extensively in the cities of the Roman Empire and demonstrated a curiosity about the learning on offer in those cities.

[HConstantine]

@HConstantine 3) Modern Western Scholarly research indicates that the Koran was compiled by scholars over a period of about 2 centuries after Mohammed's death (not that any Moslem would admit this), so there is no difficulty in hypothesizing a knowledge of late antique Greek learning on the part of the authors of the Koran.

[0ptimusbibIe]

@HConstantine "modern scholarly research" ?? instead of using an argument from authority you actually quote some of their arguments .. then you'll see why most "Modern Western Scholars" completely reject this notion as if you know Islamic history this attempt to reconcile Islamic teaching with Aristotelian philosophy came 500 years later (Averroism) and was reject bu the Muslim orthodoxy. Just read Al ghazalis "The Incoherence of the Philosophers" there is a huge difficulty with your hypothesis

[HConstantine]

@0ptimusbibIe Go and read them for your self:

Karl-Heinz Ohlig & Gerd-R Puin, edd., Hidden Origins of Islam : New Research into Its Early History, 2010.

Michael Cook, Studies in the Origins of Early Islamic Culture and Tradition 2004.

Patricia Crone amd M.A. Cook, Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World, (1977).

[0ptimusbibIe]

@HConstantine LOL i personally own 2 out of the three, Puin and his potato sack manuscripts are missionary favorites and i had a feeling you'd bring up Hagarism. i can give you direct refutation articles to their work and show you why their work holds no value but why not read about the "actual history""The Collection of The Quraan", 1979, John Burton << (his even an orientalist), Cambridge University Press, An introduction to the Qura̓an, Yasir Qadhi, Al-Hidaayah Pub., 1999.

[HConstantine]

@0ptimusbibIe Oh, you can give me the refutation? You read Arabic? You hold a PhD. in a relevant field?

[0ptimusbibIe]

@HConstantine i can read arabic but ill admit im still in the learning process to be honest its hard language to learn for me anyway let alone speak (the khha sound are the ones that will get you).nope no phd (yet). I am doing my seconds degree, my first was in economic (parents made me) and im currently doing a bachelor of philosophy. what about yourself? the refutation was by Prof. M.M Azami it was given to me by the MSA ill try and dig up a copy. im still waiting for the bart erhman of islam

[Perseveranze]

@HConstantine "modern western scholarly" also acknowledges apparent mystery of the Quran. Which one's right?

[kereng5]

@HConstantine

We don't know whether Mohammed lived at all. We don't know how many authors wrote the koran, if it happened in Mekka and so on. But this does not weaken your argument.

Galen's teaching was state of the art back then so it's no miracle to find it in the koran.

[AtheistIreland]

TheMagicSandwichShow hope you had a great time, and thanks for doing this.

[sleeper2008]

Man in the red underpants is superman. Yes, Superman!

Muslim apologist used that to explain what is be rational and whats not. Its not rational to believe a man in red underpants when he knocks on your door and tells you that he is from gas company, and he is there to read your gas meter. You shouldnt believe him on his word, but you should believe their holly book, coz [Kalam argument goes here].

Oh teh sweet irony!

[rictusgate]

I watched a debate with Tzortzis in which he used the following argument as proof of the divine nature of the Quran - Scholars consider the Quran to be so aesthetically perfect,; so internally consistent; and of such an unequaled quality that it cannot and can never be imitated by mere mortals - therefore, it must be divine. What a putz - using subjective arguments about aesthetics appeal is not logical nor rational - is Dali divine, Michaelangelo, Van Gogh, Mozart? So stupid.

[bcgonynor]

@rictusgate Not to mention that the Quran is ghastly, from a literary standpoint. It is in no particular order. It switches between the second and third person. It regularly cajoles or threatens the reader. The narrator's inconsistent. Is Allah speaking, or Gabriel, or Muhammad? Its poetry is mere lists of adjectives or simplistic metaphors. Compare it to the Aeneid - no contest. One needn't defend Virgil by saying it can only be appreciated in the original Latin. Is he a better poet than God?

[rictusgate]

@bcgonynor On a scale of "One to Wholeheartedly Agree" I would have to lean towards Wholeheartedly Agree. I've read thru the Quran and found it wanting in so many ways it's hard to know where to start. From its whiny-bitch, infantile ranting at backsliding christians/jews - to its completely misinformed views on the trinity (god, jebus and mary?) and other christian dogmas. It is a hodge-podge of desert-nomad ignorance at best - how anyone can find a single logical thought is beyond me.

[Numinous123]

@rictusgate

Remember that the kind of people who find ignorance reasonable are usually ignorant themselves. Either that, or crazy/brainwashed.

[Turandot29]

You know, rictusgate, this is virtually the same thing that Mormons say about their sacred text, the Book of Mormon. That it's full of accurate military tactics, internally consistent, full of profound truths, describes a bustling civilization of millions on the American continent (which left NO artifacts behind), it could not have been written by a semi-literate farm boy; therefore, it must have a divine origin, etc., ad nauseum. Funny isn't it?

[rictusgate]

@Turandot29 It pretty well sums up many of the "arguments" that theists posit. Many of their arguments - even from celebrated 'faux-intellectual' apologists like WLC are childish and infantile to the extreme. The logic he uses may win over the people in the pews - after all, their world is inhabited with talking snakes & donkeys, virgin births & miracles aplenty . . . the wool is already pulled tightly over their collective heads - and their logic keeps them spinning while we point and laugh

[Numinous123]

@rictusgate

Especially when you add to the fact that parts of the Quran are obviously plagiarized.

[luccaskunk]

@rictusgate I would say that yes, Salvidore Dali is, in fact, divine. The man was a god of surrealism. The others were divine as well. Van Gogh was a god of impressionism. Michaelangelo was a god of the Renaissance, and Mozart was a god of Classical and Baroque music.

[Domzdream]

I've been with you guys from the beginning. And I'm going to remain with you from here on. I love the show.

Best of luck to you all.