UniverSoul Circus-Schizophrenic Elephants & Training

[myprophet1]

"make em scream. take their head off, sink that hook in till you hear them screamin." comon' that's just sick!

[mizzluscious08]

and be all end all. i went to the universoul circus LAST NIGHT. The very same elephants gave over 100 children elephant rides during intermission....

So much for schizophrenia.... pathetic bastards. They were fine.... not sedated either because ur cheeky pathetic lives will probably come up with that excuse. They were active, curious about their surroundings, touching ppl, everything...

They do, however, display this behavior in their acts. TRAINED behavior can be shown in times of leisure.

[truthIsStranger]

@mizzluscious08

Innocuous YouTube comments are the new front in global P.R. Corporations pay people to act like they disagree with evidence, know better, or to attack credibility.

"I ain't gonna touch her in front of a thousand people. She's just gonna do what I say, and that's the way it is."

People who watch videos containing proof and then act like they didn't see it want to keep other people from looking. Watch the video.

[mizzluscious08]

elephants always sway... even when happy. not saying they are really excited. but they do that when they are hungry... excited. everything.

performance anxiety

wutever. at least they arent aggressive or back there beating them. no animals are gonna be the gladdest creatures around, but at least they arent hung on someones wall or fighting for their lives in a dying forest. or being beat around to play soccer. theres worse fates for such animals. especially endangered ones.

[patcuvie]

@mizzluscious08 -"elephants always sway?" That is the kind of misinformed statement someone who works, or has worked, for the circus says. mizzluscious08, you obviously know nothing about elephants. Elephants do not sway when they are free and wild. Swaying is a pathological reaction to severe deprivation.Only elephants held in captivity sway.

[mizzluscious08]

@patcuvie I am a college student... of course i don't work for a circus. I HAVE been on an African safari in 2006, however. And in their wild environment. i SAW. with my eyes, those things you are born with in your head, elephants, in their herd. Swaying. Have a nice day, jackass.

[patcuvie]

@mizzluscious08 - WOW! A College Student! Impressive! I guess being a college student doesn't prevent you from lying. Researchers who have been observing African elephants for more than 30 years all agree: ELEPHANTS IN THE WILD DO NOT SWAY. You obviously have some connection to Universoul Circus which is blinding you to cruelty and reality.

[truthIsStranger]

@mizzluscious08

Animals are happiest living in the wild. They belong in the forest. A hundred years ago people understood this, but the modern Zombie Sapien is a perversion of nature itself... I'm sure you can imagine what this is like. I just don't think you'll try to imagine it for more than two or three minutes. Any human in that situation would rather be fighting to survive in the woods.

"LMAO" @ people who think animals are jealous of our tech... or unhappy without it, or whatever.

[crxtech1]

@mizzluscious08 Search youtube for the video called " Our Elephants in 2010 " tell us how many you see swaying

[mudflapthefirst]

again they sway in the wild, watch some wild kingdom

[patcuvie]

Elephants do not sway in the wild. There is no video of wild elephants swaying.

[mizzluscious08]

@patcuvie LMAO there is NO video? u watched them all huh. lucky you for shavign such time on your hands.

[Timothy2035]

Those Carson people are cruel.

[TrainedElephants]

OH BULLSHIT ! There's NOTHING WRONG with this healthy elephant. I suppose you want the elephant to stand real still, would that be better.

[jtrubilla]

you're a fucking idiot. Elephants don't sway back and forth in the wild.

They're being tortured and forced to perform for human entertainment, and you defend it? What a douche. You should be locked up.

[TrainedElephants]

@jtrubilla Fuck you Ass whore! You dont know what your talking about, so shut your dumb ass mouth up! Your the kind of person that points and dont know what your talking about, dumb fucking asshole idiot. Elephants do sway everywhere, biotch.

[jtrubilla]

No they don't

[TrainedElephants]

Yes they do. Also sorry for swearing its just that this is such a touchy subject. Did you even know elephants stay with their Mahoots from when they are both only a few years old, all their lives & have been doing this for centurys. You just dont know the love a trainer can have for their elephant. I know some people are cruel & thats with everything in life there is gonna be bad people, but remember there are real ggod trainers out there that love their elephants.

[patcuvie]

As Michael W. Fox stated, "[e]ven if the "trainer" loves the animal, as soon as they begin to perform, what is manifested is not love, but domination. Domination-the need to have power and control over others-comes not from love, but from fear. Therefore, performing animals are not an expression of love and understanding but fear, ignorance and the desire for power and control." The relationship between the animal and trainer is akin to slave and master.

[TrainedElephants]

How about the newborn's that are born to trained elephants. Ringling has been more succesful at newborns than any Zoo I can think of.

[sarahsum1]

I can't beleive that human beings do this to such magnificent, intelligent animals. Then people go to watch this so called 'entertainment' it's appauling and it's abuse. Every body should watch the documentry 'earthlings' then you will understand the impact humankind has on animals.

[southernman517]

why is the elephant rocking his head back and forth.

[Puppyzluv77]

coping behavior + stress sign

[mayflowerbaby]

are they abusing them?

[patcuvie]

Mayflowerbaby, imagine being taken away from everything that you love and that makes your life worth living; family, friends music, etc.. Essentially all your freedom. Then imagine that you have to do whatever you are told by another person who will use physical punishment if you don't. Next imagine that you kept in a space about the size of your house. Now you tell me is that abuse.

[abran2323]

I agree with what you are saying and I agree that we would have psychological disorders if we were taken away from our loved ones by force. But the thing with schizophrenia is, you cannot BECOME schizophrenic, you are BORN schizophrenic. It doesn't show its symptoms until puberty. Schizophrenics have different brain structure, and if they are calling this elephant "schizophrenic", then they must have made a brain tomography. Or else, it is just a defense mechanism against stress.

[chiboiu3]

the use of animals in a circus shud be illegal

[trackstarartist]

Elephants do sway even if it doesn't come natural to dance to music.If they become accustomed to hearing it yes they enjoy music In elephant sanctuary they are catered to & roam free. Staff often play music for them while they paint and depending on if the elephant likes the song he will sway to the beat however if theres no music and hes swaying theres something wrong. I don't agree with animal abuse of any form The bible says we must protect animals from harm except those the bible says to eat

[patcuvie]

Elephants do not naturally sway. It is an abnormal behavior that is a reaction to the stress and boredom of severe confinement. There are two Elephant sanctuaries in the US who do not exploit the elephants. I have never heard one of them say the elephants sway to music. Being kind to others is just simple decency. When someone (circuses) is making money off the exploitation of someone else (elephants)the desire to be kind is secondary, at best, to making money.

[journeyman47]

Yes, Patcuvie, thanks for once again highlighting the plight of circus elephants all over the world. Many of us are with you and are against this degrading form of exploitation whose time has long since passed. It should have been banned decades ago, along with big-game trophy hunting and other idiotic, thoughtless forms of "entertainment". (Unfortuntately even trophy hunting continues today for such fellow animals as bears and big cats in the U.S. amazingly enough.) Anyway, thanks.

[inwiththenu1]

Our shows aren't allowed 2 b taped (like most professional shows of anykind) to prevent the reproduction of acts or as in this case, people using the vids 2 fuel their own biased agendas. I do wholeheartedly respect the effort of those of you who genuinely care for the well being of these (and all) animals, but the fact that you guys post vids that are blatently one-sided with no accompanying evidence & give a thumbs dwn to anyone who disagrees, just detracts credibilty from ur point.God Bless!

[nonymoos]

patcuvie, thank you for showing the world what they cannot see for themselves. This rhythmic swaying is truly a sign of mental illness. Elephants who have been rescued and sent to sanctuary look so much different and healthier within months. A year or two after receiving sanctuary, you wouldn't even recognize the elephants as the same tortured souls who had been enslaved by the circus. I pray that someday all circus elephants will receive sanctuary. Until then, don't pay to see them.

[inwiththenu1]

The naration of this video is BULL! I was a showgirl in the Universoul Circus (check my vids) and I rode the elephant on the right. Her name is Susie. These elephants live better than most of the people commenting. They are treated awesome! Elephants actually sway ALL the time, even in the wild! It is a sign of calm and relaxtion. Check your facts! Besides that our animals (or show) aren't allowed to be taped, so you'll probably have to take this down! But I do respect ur beliefs,you're WAY off!

[patcuvie]

ELEPHANTS DO NOT SWAY IN THE WILD. It is a pathological response to severe confinement. You are in the circus by choice. How would you like being taken from your home and family, kept in severe confinement and forced to work not for your benefit but for your "owner's." I clearly understand why Universoul does not want people taping the animals. It does not help the circus' business to expose the cruel treatment of the animals. Universoul does not need degrading animal acts.

[clarasfriend]

oh , you are so brainwashed. does this look like a normal happy ele to you?

Please watch some wild elephants. you wont't see them losing their minds like this.

[journeyman47]

Inwiththenu: you need to get "in with" reality, Ms. Showgirl. I worked with elephants at a rescue center in Thailand, where the happy elephants showed NO signs of swaying or other stereotypic behavior. Just because you were thoughtless enough to work at a circus and rode beaten, depressed elephants doesn't make you an expert on their natural behavior in the wild.

P.S. I wonder why your "shows" aren't allowed to be taped? Is their something you're ashamed of going on?

[inwiththenu1]

Journey, I respect your theory but stil find it to be misinformed and biased. No need for sarcasm or cheap shots. For the record, our animals or NEVER beaten or abused, so pls don't spew hateful, defamatory info that is just plain untrue. Their are animal control employees at every show, in every city to investigate the treatment and conditions of the animals. The elephants are taught tricks by rewards (treats) much like dogs, not by physical force.

[journeyman47]

Ok, let's say your trainers are the best in the world, and never beat or use bullhooks on their elephants (unlikely). I still believe that keeping elephants imprisoned, and let out only to perform degrading, unnatural acts for clueless humans is inherently wrong. I know, you're gonna say your pachyderms are the happiest, most joyful creatures on Earth and just LOVE practicing their silly routines daily (when not caged). Somehow I don't think I'll believe you.

PS Where do they spend the winter?

[gardenwife]

I can't believe you're saying this, inwiththenu1. Watch any documentary about elephants in their natural habitat and family groups, read scientific journals about their behavior.

[patcuvie]

The video is clear and speaks for itself. If you don't see or understand the abuse shown then you either don't care or need to question the schools you went to.

[SexiestMama]

So your trying to say that all elephant trainers that care for, feed, clean up & take care of elephant medical need's are all heartless & mean people & beat elephant's into submission? Where did you go to school?

[patcuvie]

The video is clear and speaks for itself. If you don't see or understand the abuse shown then you obviously don't care and need to question the schools you went.

[SexiestMama]

All I see in the video is some elephants swaying & enjoying themselves. Just today I saw people in line at the store doing the same thing, swaying & they didn't look abused either.

[ploxsicle]

Are you really not capable of understanding scientifically proven signs of mental illness in mammals? Primates such as humans sit in fetal position hold themselves and rock, cats pace the bars, elephants sway, horses toss their heads endlessly- these are signs of going insane and being severely abused. If you don't understand something as simple as this, please sterilize yourself. You are too stupid to breed.

[SexiestMama]

Oh I get it now, you say your people came from primates. So that's why your such an idiot, you've been bred from a primate. Primates, such as human's you say. Hahha, your really dumb! You know 0 about elephants, or animals. You should be a comedian, your funny and good for a laugh.

[patcuvie]

People who resort to name-calling do so because they have nothing rational to say. Your defense of the enslavement of animals in circuses is blind and clearly not based on knowledge or love for the animals themselves.

[SexiestMama]

I wont waste anymore of my time on a dumb ass as yourself, you breeder you.

[cemetaryappletree]

There is nothing like freedom. If the elephants need a sanctuary they should be somewhere else, not a circus. You have no right to dominate them, esp because crap happens and bad trainers come along, and as long as the circus continues using animals, bad trainers will also continue, and animals will suffer for it. Just let them be elephants.

[cemetaryappletree]

those people should drowned in a river of vomit

[SamanthaRod318]

Also, just b/c you see a tape of this particular traineracting they way he does, doesnt mean that ALL trainers are this way! There are any people out in the world who beat there own pets or children..but does that mean everyone does?!?

NO it doesnt! My cousin in Europe owns 3 asian elephants and they are treated like her own children (they never used a bullhook to even train them). So you see i can honestly say that not all trainers are alike

[patcuvie]

All elephants that are trained to do tricks are trained through violence with a bullhook. If you worked in a circus around elephants you know this and by stating otherwise you are being dishonest. All circuses that use animals lie about how they are treated as they live by the old adage "there is a sucker born every minute. That circuses treat the animals like their children is one of the biggest lies and only a person who doesn't care or doesn't want to see the cruelty would fall for it.

[SamanthaRod318]

I've never seen on be trained before. all the ones i've worked w/ are already trained. I dont need to lie about anything, im a very honest person. I love elephants with all my heart. Like i said before just because you see one trainer be cruel doesnt mean they are all like that! Theres really no point in arguing b/c you assume you know it all and i know you dont.

[patcuvie]

Well now some truth slips through. You have never seen the training. Nevertheless, you are not honest if you rode elephants and say you never saw an elephant "trainer" use the Bullhook to inflict pain. Your love for elephants is perverted, similar to the plantation owner who loved his slaves. Do you really think elephants like being taken away from their families? You spend time around elephants yet you don't even know them. To you their pathological swaying and rocking behavior is adorable.

[SamanthaRod318]

Well i've rode on elepants before..(im a circus performer) and one show i was walking back to the elephant tent and there was about 6 of them standing in line right next to one another..and the trainer had on music.. and all 6 of them were swaying back and forward to the music (like they were rocking to the beat!) it was one of the most adorable things i had ever seen! I could tell since i have spent time around these animals that they were enjoying themselves, not b/c they were distressed!

[patcuvie]

You clearly don't know what you are looking at or talking about. You obviously just want to defend your insensitivity to the elephants you "rode" in the circus. Elephants that are rocking or swaying ARE NOT DANCING. Rocking and swaying are pathological behaviors and that you see it as adorable shows your own emotional pathology. If your "talent" is riding on the backs of enslaved elephants then you are talentless.

[SamanthaRod318]

i didnt say they were dancing you moron! i said it looked like they were moving to the beat! funny enough when they turned the music off they all stopped....hmmmmm. coinsidence?! Dont call me talentless, i ride on elepohants on occasion! im a performer im an aerialist i have more talent than you ever will. Elephants are not even my main act. & how the hell do you know what you're talking about? Are you a elephant pyschologist? Or might you have been an elephant in a past life?

[journeyman47]

Ah, the ones who are the most difficult to teach are the ones who refuse to hear.

Wake up, "elephant rider", and listen to the truth!

Ban circuses with animals!

[TrainedElephants]

KEEP ELEPHANTS IN THE CIRCUS, THEY ARE SO HEALTHY THERE AND LOVED !

And why don't you go peddle something somewhere else !

[journeyman47]

Um, I think it's you who needs to peddle something somewhere else. "Healthy and loved"? Elephants? In circuses??

Don't make me laugh. Even children know that a circus is no place for huge, endangered mammals like the intelligent elephant.

I don't know what kind of fantasyland you come from, but maybe you should go back until you wake up and see the truth.

Better hurry, the good ship Lollipop is leaving!

PS your Utube nickname reveals your bias... as someone who makes money off them.

[TrainedElephants]

Looks like your the peddler, not I. I have lived this have you? KEEP ELEPHANTS IN THE CIRCUS, someday there may not be anymore elephants left in the wild because that is where the elephants are being killed for their ivory and even eaten.

Good sip Lollipop cool, when you leaving onthat ship anyway? Bias I'm not, I have cared for elephants for years, and you, never, I didnt think so. Make money off of elephants, hah, not me.

[jamichael138]

THAT IS SICKENING!!!! I wanna puke! People like that are the ones who deserve to get attacked by animals!! If man would leave animals alone they could take care of themselves. Circus crap.... Ugh... what a bunch of loser Carnys.

[lovelydiva06]

if they have to harm these animals in any way to train them then i think its cruel and enhumane because i don't know anything about animal training but i think animals can be trained without being treating them that way, i don't know who this guy is but he's disgusting an his methods for training thses animals are digusting as well as anyone else who treats animals like this.

[patcuvie]

Anyone who thinks the animals used by circuses are treated well should live in the same conditions, (ie, a cage, chained, deprived of your family and freedom), for a year and then tell us if you really think the circus treats the animals well and that living chained or caged is a good life.

[AngeLonerOner]

No, Who ever is talking, does not know what he's talking about. Often even people rock back and forth when they stand in line. I don't see any abuse here, only happy and healthy elephants. What did U want when their standing there a song & dance?

[justinp31233]

You are a dumb person. The elephants gone crazy!!!!

[AngeLonerOner]

And you are a IDIOT ! How much elephant shit have you shoveled? How many time's have you fed an elephant, or stood next to a Veternarian while the elephant was cared for. Most of all how many elephants have you had for a real friend. None, I thought so. Well I have dumb ass!

[masameus]

Repetitive movement observed in imprisoned wild animals is associated with stress and anxiety. When animals spend a large part of their time rocking their bodies back and forth or walking from one corner of the cage to another, this is stress-induced behaviour. The animals are in a stressful situation and are bored out of their minds, just like any developed sentient being in a similar situation.

[AngeLonerOner]

Like you.

[masameus]

Don't give me that tired BS about knowing things. Working in a circus does not automatically mean that you know better. In fact, if you work with circus animals, you are probably clueless as to what animals need, as being imprisoned by humans is HARDLY something that sensitive and intelligent animals like elephants will enjoy.

[TrainedElephants]

I have never worked in a circus, I dont talk BS, only facts. Elephants are being slaughter for their Ivory and some villagers eat them in the wild. People are having wars over this, elephants NEED people nowadays.Igrew up around elephants & worked around them helping over 8 years. I've raked alot of road apples. I love riding elephants bare back, something you will NEVER do!

[patcuvie]

You're right I will never ride an elephant, because I know they don't want people riding them, and I respect them for who they are not for what I can get from exploiting them. If you rode elephants then you know that the people used bullhooks on them and you are mis-representing your experience around elephants to the people reading these comments. You are truly talking BS.

[AngeLonerOner]

When you have had even 10 years of experience with feeding, cleaning, watching for an elephant health & care, then you can make a remard. You cant say what you dont know. Why dont you be the president of the United States, know-it-all. NOT!

[patcuvie]

AngeLonerOner clearly does not care about the cruelty involved in training elephants to do stupid tricks as she defends every video I put up with circus cruelty. AngeLonerOner I am very glad you are in the minority and that most people do not attend circuses with animals. One day you won't either as they will be outlawed. Until then I assume you will keep on posting your insensitive comments.

[journeyman47]

African elephants are rarely used in circuses, as they are more difficult to train and handle-- usually they are Asian elephants.

So don't try to con us with the lame excuse that somehow circuses are "saving" elephants. They actually help endanger them by buying captive babies that have been torn away from their mothers and families who try to protect them-- and who sometimes have to be killed.

Go peddle your lies somewhere else.

[CircusBabe108]

omg they actully put this up on youtube!?!?! my dad kicked the people out that was recording this! WE DONT ABUSE ANIMALS ON THE UNIVERSOUL CIRCUS!! WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING THIS UP HERE!?!?!?

trust me, i know. i worked there for 5 years

[dhoffryn]

Dumb bitch!

[CircusBabe108]

ohh im the dumb bitch bcuz i kno what the fukk i'm talking about right!?!?!

if you leave the elephants in the wild, they'll die, they'll get shot or something..We take of them in the circus.

We feed them when they need to be fed, we shower them & all that

so i think that u should think a little before you start talking shit!

[Cirkusnord]

i like you :)

you are he only one in america how know the true about the circus animals!

they don´t show the food, the candy, the love betwen the animal and trainer!!

GO CIRCUS POVER!! :)

[CircusBabe108]

thanks!

and yah thats true.

[justinp31233]

You work for the circus so your gonna defend them. And have you even looked at the other videos on animal abuse at the circus? And P.S., what do you do at the circus?

[CircusBabe108]

honestly, yes i have and SOME of it is true. but not all of it. some trainers might hit their animals, but the owners dont allow it. when the owners find out or see it, the trainers usually get fired. the thing that i hate is that everybody things that every circus abuses their animals which they dont. and im a performer

[patcuvie]

This is a load of crap. The owners know what is going on and they are perfectly fine with it. CircusBabe108, if you have spent any significant amount of time around a circus you know what you are saying is false and the only reason you would say it is because you are clearly a supporter of mistreating animals by using them in circuses.

[journeyman47]

Patcuvie is correct, circusbabe. When the video got out of Tim "Make 'em scream" Frisco, Carson & Barnes STILL did not fire him; he still works there today.

Circus owners know all about the cruelty and beatings, but of course don't care; all they care about is the money they get from exploiting the nonhuman animals they own, and will do anything to continue to get it.

[djmixmasterchino]

i work in universoul ok and that is not abnormal! they do cus they are heavy and they need to shift waight from leg to leg..go to a zoo and u will see alephants do the same thing . or got toafrica,,and u will see the same.if u want to save animals get some better info firts.!!!!

[dhoffryn]

Shows what you know Fuck Face. You ought be in jail.

[mejw1]

i used to work for george carden circus for 5 years and although i cared for and loved the elephants i worked with and never used the hook, i had to watch the trainers use excesive force on them (over hooking and proding)

at first i was clueless and just thought ok this is the way you handle an elephant and thats how much force you have to use, but as the years go by im thinking theres no need to have hooks at all,

[mejw1]

dam 500 character limit :(

i do missed the girls tho :( (elephants)

they are one of the most amazing creatures

i remember when we sent (mike the male african elephant) to a sanctuary, and 4 months later we heard he was killed in a fire :(

if anyone has questions of elephants might be able to awnser them

[patcuvie]

What years did you work with Carden? Was Jenny, an elephant, there when you worked with Carden?

[mejw1]

yes i worked with jeny, bimbo and bonnie, bimbo was sooo awesome, all i had to do was tickle her under her leg and she would bark like a dog lol

i missed them :(

[justinp31233]

Thank you, you are the only smart person whose ever worked the circus and that can expose what happens behind the curtain. CIRCUSES NEED TO STOP NOW!!!

[salom5]

how did u get this poor anmil abouse on tape

[patcuvie]

I stood by the fence to videotape the stereotypic swaying and rocking. The training footage was taken by someone else who was undercover.

[salom5]

oh thanks this is so mean to the elephant they sholuld be free

[salom5]

this is very mean did u say some thing to the people this so mean i hate the circus

[patcuvie]

I don't initiate conversations with the circus people but if they choose to talk to me I am always friendly but willing to state my position. The people I talk to are the patrons because if they don't spend their money at the circus, because of the animal abuse, the circus will die or change their ways to reflect want people want to see or don't want to see.

[salom5]

oh ok do protest for the anmils and try to save them

[MondoBeno]

I used to love circuses, but I no longer go to circuses that use animals. It's a shame, because I wanted to see that clown from Ringling Bros. who does the "flying wheel". But that circus has animals, so it's a no-no.

[BroadwayStAr1nce]

For all those who say there is no safer way to train elephants is wrong read the article as my home page new studies are coming out. Pat do you work with a place or what? just wondering I love the videos you make im hoping to start action but im waiting for some responses first.

[BroadwayStAr1nce]

thats what they do but it doesnt work

[patcuvie]

There is abuse by infliction, which is what you see in the Carson & Barnes video and abuse by deprivation. The cruelty of deprivation is harder for most people to comprehend. The freedom to move about, interact with their environment and socialize with their family is everything to an elephant. Deprived of this freedom they are deprived of life itself. The neurotic rocking & swaying is caused by the stress and frustration of being deprived of freedom. Free living elephants do not rock & sway.

[texcan74]

Are you a professional on elephants? Were there 3 elephants when you shot The Univeroul clip? Usually there were 3 elephants. If one was missing they were probably nervous. The Carson and Barnes video is abuse. The Universoul part was nothing. Those girls were waiting outside because their act was coming up. The swaying is mostly for circulation, also because they were not allowed to roam backstage.

[masameus]

You can see all kinds of animals, from camels to great cats, swaying their bodies and doing other frustrated movement routines in captivity. Animals suffer in unnatural confined spaces in which they are forced to live in circuses and zoos.

[texcan74]

Again. Are you a professional? Let me answer that. No. Cause you immediately go and mention other animals. So you do not seem to know much. The cats on our show never swayed either. I remember when you shot this video. We heard about you. You were in the nose bleeder section way upstage left.

[BrianAStier]

Haha you actually work for the show. Your elephants have severe anxiety. Another case of elephants in distress. No one needs to be a professional to see it. What are you fucking blind or just retarded.

[masameus]

"Again. Are you a professional?"

Define "professional". Elephant trainers certainly aren't. They know how to handle the animals but do not necessarily know anything else about the them. If they knew something about their anatomy and natural behaviour, they simply wouldn't force them to behave the way they do. Exploitation for profit does not equal being professional.

[AngeLonerOner]

I've seen elephants cared for in circus's, in most circus's elephants care is excellent, but like ANYTHING ELSE, this world ain't perfect, & there are some meanies out there, but NOT ALL.

[masameus]

Imprisoning wild animals, depriving them of their natural habitat and forcing them to stand on their heads, balance on objects, etc. is in and of itself animal cruelty. There is no such thing as a happy circus elephant. Each and every elephant you see in a circus was brutally beaten to submit to the will of humans and is being controlled with fear of pain.

[AngeLonerOner]

Sorry, I cant agree with you on this. I've known quite a few Ringling trainers, and they never mistreated these elephant. You cant judge all trainers in the circus by one man.This would mean that no animals should be trained, did you know dogs and cats were once wild too? Now look at them.

[masameus]

It is not one or two people. The violence is inherent in the system. The only way you can control those animals is by threat of pain, which is why they use those hooks. I know for a fact that elephants caught in the wild do not submit to the will of humans until they have been systematically tortured to submission.

[AngeLonerOner]

Actually in the wild they usually get an elephant when it is very young and coral it, so there is no torture there. I've never heard of getting an older elephant from the wild. However to move some elephants to safety they will put them out to move them. Either that of they would most likely be killed for their ivory, or more parts.

[patcuvie]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. When a young elephant is captured in the wild they are severely confined and subjected to a constant barrage of hitting, jabbing and poking. They are also deprived of sleep and food until they submit to human domination. It is one of the ugliest human behaviors I have ever seen and is indefensible.

[TrainedElephants]

Hello! First I don't believe in torturing elephants! Secondly, an elephant has more of a chance for survival by moving it to somewhere safe.Being left in the wild is a sure early death, like you say for their ivory.And I clearly do know what I'm talking about, how many road apples have you shoveled?And how many times have you fed & bathed an elephant?Absolutely not, a real professional trainer doesnt poke or jab, only guide with the hooks.

[patcuvie]

Pure unadulterated circus BS. The Bullhook is a weapon designed to inflict pain. It is negative reinforcement. If you have spent anytime around elephants and "trainers" in circuses then you know what you are saying is false. Unless you just have a perverted understanding of what it means to torture an elephant. BTW the only road apples I shovel come from people such as yourself.

[TrainedElephants]

How many time's have you walked an elephant or petting an elephant or even rode an elephant bareback, NEVER, I thought so. People like you that talk out of your ass should justshut up when it come's to matter's you have NO experience in. I've alway's been kind to elephant's I've help to train.

[patcuvie]

Your reasoning that because I have never exploited elephants for my benefit I cannot truly care about elephants is perverted. I guess because I have never owned slaves I cannot truly care about people who are enslaved or because I have never owned a sweatshop I cannot truly care about exploited workers or because I have never exploited children I cannot truly care about children. Your reasoning is truly distorted as is your definition of what loving elephants entails.

[TrainedElephants]

First of all, I dont believe in any kind of slavery, evidently you do & must practice it. Shut up if you dont know what your talking about & have no experience. I through with yhour dumbn ass remarks. Peace out anyway.

[TrainedElephants]

You have a fetish about slavery, you sound Perverted. Hope you dont own any dogs or cats, they were once wild too, and some still are. Do you eat beef, poultry or seafood? If you do that makes you a hipocrite. All you believe is what peta tells you, go to them!

[masameus]

"--an elephant has more of a chance for survival by moving it to somewhere safe."

Exactly the kind of bull you get from animal trainers and their sympathisers. Animals don't survive in the wild? How alienated does one have to be to believe that animals are better off in cages than in the wild? I even read about a study, conducted by someone who trains horses to dance to the music of The Beatles, which claims that wild animals are really much happier in captivity than in the wild.

[AngeLonerOner]

Forget capturing elephants. I am really talking about elephant's that are born on ranches where the male & female is. This is the best way of them not being wiped out.I took care of elephants for over 1o years & I NEVER beat them!Be serious, look at the size of a person next to an elephant, who win? Duhhhhhhhhh.

[patcuvie]

Violence is the method used to control elephants since people have been controlling elephants. There is no other way to get an elephant to perform stupid unnatural tricks and if you worked with elephants you are fully aware of this fact. In captivity the elephant has the slave mentality; Fear of being beaten if they rebel. Although, just like human slaves, some elephants get pushed to their limits and rebel. Protecting Elephants in their preserved habitat is the best way to save the species.

[AngeLonerOner]

I can tell you have no hand's on experience with elephants. A person with a hook has no chance if the elephant want's to hurt them, or if the elephant feels your so called fear that person is done for, you are tripping ! Go back to peta.

[patcuvie]

Elephants are taught from the time they are babies that the bullhook causes pain and when they rebel, no matter how small or great the rebellion, they learn that they will get beat even more. If you have "hands on experience" with elephants you know this. Accordingly, elephants develop a slave mentality wherein even when they can hurt the person causing them pain they don't because they are afraid of the retribution that will come after, not only from the injured person but others as well.

[TrainedElephants]

Wrong, I helped with a young elepant that was captured in the wild, and we did not do any of those awful things your talking about. And for anyone to do those things to a young elephant is so terrible, that I agree, but again one bad apple dont spoil the whole bunch. Your saying because someone has done this they all do it, and so goes everything else in life too right, NOT.

[masameus]

The cat and dog analogy doesn't work because elephants have not been bred to live with humans and are still wild at heart. Even if they were bred to be companions to humans, it wouldn't justify their use as circus entertainers because they are not physically or psychologically adapted to perform circus tricks, or to live in a cage separated from their family and tribe.

[patcuvie]

The only one way to get an elephant to perform the stupid unnatural tricks that Ringling makes them do is through brutal training. All circuses, including Ringling, use brutality to train elephants. If you didn't see Ringling trainers brutalizing the elephants during training then you didn't see the training. BTW circus life for an animal is inherently mistreatment.

[AngeLonerOner]

I really am no expert on circus elephants. However My good friend's own a rach with 12 elephant's. A let me tell you, those elephants are cared for and loved more than many people are. You dont get it, its not just to see an elephant preform but the communication is important to their very existance.!

[patcuvie]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Elephants existence is not dependent on humans communicating with them or exploiting them for profit. What are your friends' names? Do they use bullhooks? If they do then you clearly have a different definition of "cared for and loved" than I do. People who exploit elephants love them like slave owners loved their slaves. It is not real love to deny someone their freedom so you can make a profit off of them.

[TrainedElephants]

You dont know what you are saying, how much experience do you have taking care of elephants, Any at all? How many times have you been alone with an elephant?If you think elephant don't need the help of people in this day and age, you haven't done your homework!

[TrainedElephants]

Roam backstage?