Learn about an organization called the European Sunday Alliance, who seeks to create and enforce a law for all of Europe, forcing all people to rest on Sunday. Thereby preventing and controlling people's ability to "buy and sell" as commerce would be forbidden on Sundays. Except those business' the EU would decide could maintain the right to be open, by meeting Eu criteria. Penalties would be imposed upon those who defy the day of rest.
The church in croatia has a majority on it's side since forced conversions, mass murder of non-Catholics, Catholic extermination camps headed by Catholic clergy and their employ of the ustashi in wwII. Look up The Vatican's Holocaust
They are, with the aid of the u.s. unseating leaders in the middle east as we speak who will be replaced by dictators in order to enforce their rule on the whole of the middle east as well.
DEAR PEOPLE. PLEASE KNOW THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NEAR. MAY 21, 2011 WILL BE JUDGMENT DAY AND THE LORD WILL RETURN FOR HIS BELOVED. PRAY THAT YOU MIGHT BE ONE OF THE MULTITUDE THAT NO MAN CAN NUMBER THAT WILL BE SAVED ON THAT TERRIBLE DAY.
Colossians 2:16-17 says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." What do we learn here? 1. festival refers to annual sabbaths and 7th year sabbath; 2. New moon refers to monthly sabbath; 3. Sabbath day refers to the weekly sabbath or 7th day sabbath. The bible is crystal clear and why do people still bind?
My friend if you are saying that the Sabbath of the 10'C is blotted out, then you have to remove all. You have to make sure you are not referring to the ceremonial sabbaths in which they held sacrifices and feasts with the moral law Sabbath which identifies the creator as God
How long are we going to continue hearing this Colossians 2:16-17 argument? It has been proven a long time ago that the "Sabbaths" being spoken about here (plural that is) is referring to the Jewish Sabbaths such as Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles/Uneleavened Bread, Feast of Trumpets, etc. Not the Seventh-Day Sabbath. Colossians 2:16 is in context of "meat offerings and drink offerings and festivals", and the 4th commandment mentions NOTHING about these ceremonies!
@Lysimachus78 An apple is always an apple. You can't remove an apple from the bucket of apples and says it's not an apple. A day of rest is one of the day of rests.
That is simply untrue. I have evaluated the text of Colossians 2:16 in the Greek. It is referring to feasts being held ON these Sabbaths, not the observance of the day themselves. It has to do with regarding of HOW you worship on these days, NOT that you cannot worship. The Greek is very clear with the phrase "en mere". Also, you should read the new book entitled "Judging the Sabbath: What Can't Be Found in Colossians 2:16" by Ron du Preez, Th.D, DMin, Ph.D.
In addition, you are reading Col 2:16 without other Bible texts to help you understand Col 2:16. We Adventists use the principle of Isaiah 28:9-11, which states that doctrine must be formed "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept". Col 2:16 cannot be canceling out the 4th commandment, because Isaiah 66:22,23 mention we will be keeping it in the New Earth, and Luke 23:56 says they kept the Sabbath "ACCORDING" to the commandment AFTER Christ died on the cross.
Isaiah 66:22,23, is not speaking about every day worship. The fact that the word "Sabbath" is being used proves that it is a day of rest, because the very NAME "Sabbath" means "to pause", to "rest". You are a complete ignoramous if you wish to pretend that Sabbath observance is not implied in the text. Like I said, quit arguing! You're fighting a LOSING BATTLE! You are in rebellion against God, and you are on the highway STRAIGHT to perdition if you do not change.
Not to mention that Paul, just like Jesus' custom was, also worshiped EVERY Sabbath in the Synagogue and taught and persuaded both the Jews AND the Greeks (Acts 18:4), See also Acts 17:2, and Acts 13:42-44. Oh, and don't forget that Jesus told ALL those in the land of Judea (not just Jerusalem, so the locked gates are not in the equation here) to pray that their flight not be in the Winter neither on the Sabbath day (Acts 24:20).
@Lysimachus78 Romans 14:5 says that "One man (Jew or SDA) considers one day more sacred than another; another man (Gentile Christians) considers every day alike" If you consider the Sabbath more sacred, good for you. I'll consider all day alike. I am fully convinced in my mind.
Romans 14:5 is concerning days "men esteem", or "we esteem", not the Sabbath day of the Lord which "God esteems". So the subject for which you are proposing is OFF the panel! SORRY! :) Romans 14 is discussing days like we would think of Christmas or Thanksgiving. These days are not salvational, but if we are going to celebrate them, do them unto the Lord. Compare Romans 14 with 1 Cor 8, and you will see it is talking about eating meats sacrificed to idols on certain days.
Try to get my point. The Jewish festivals such as Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Day of Atonement, First Fruits, Feast of Trumpets, Passover, etc. etc..... were no longer required, but were not prohibited either. They were now like celebration days if they wanted. It was up to them. Paul in Romans 14 is in context of days then men "esteem". Also, the word "alike" is not in the Greek. Famous commentarians such as Adam Clarke and Albert Barnes agree with me
@Lysimachus78 Paul was a very high educated man. He knew what he meant by "every day alike". But he didn't exclude the Sabbath day. Paul did not say that the 7th day rest is more sacred still. In Paul's time, the Jewish Christians imposed their religious rules to the Gentile Christians, including imposing the 7th day rest as more sacred day. Paul said no. In Christ, anyone can choose what day is sacred as long as he does it to the Lord.
Paul does say the Sabbath day is still sacred. He says clearly in Hebrews 4:9:
"There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God." (Hebrews 4:9).
But even if Paul didn't, the burden of proof is on you where Paul would have to say the Seventh-Day is no longer sacred. But he did not. Whatever is given in the Old Testament remains in the New Testament, UNLESS it is clearly canceled out. And Colossians 2:16 doesn't do that, as it is talking about the festival Sabbaths.
@Lysimachus78 Are you sure you understand Hebrews 4:9? This is the true Sabbath for the people of God. I agree with you, but it's the reality of the 7th day sabbath, a shadow. Hebrews 4:9 is God's rest and we enter and remain in it. Do you remain in the 7th day Sabbath? No. You rest one day and works 6 days again. Tell me, how do we enter the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9?
You can trust me on Hebrews 4:9. I have read the whole chapter of Hebrews 3 and 4 many many times to grasp the concept, and also compared to the Greek to help conceptualize it. The message is this: The "rest" (katapausis) existed in the days of Joshua (old Covenant), but they failed to enter this rest, therefore, were not able to keep the Sabbath. In the day of David (New Covenant), the Sabbath rest STILL remains (from Joshua's day) as a sign to represent our "katapausis" (rest in Jesus)
@Lysimachus78 Hebrews 4:4 reminds us of God's rest (7th day). Adam and Eve remained in God's rest until they sinned and God kicked them out. No one had entered God's rest since. The 4th Commandment reminds the Israelites (now us) of what we had with God after creation. We had been kicked out. What then now? We have a second chance to enter God's rest (Hebrews 4:9)--our heavenly rest. How do we enter this rest? By believing in the good news preached to us.
In other words, the "Sabbatismos" rest in Heb 4:9 is the OUTWARD expression to represent our Rest in Christ. Only those who have entered into the "katapausis" rest can truly enter into the seventh-day rest. That is the message in Heb 4. Since the Jews failed to enter into the "katapausis", they were never able to keep the "Sabbatismos". That's what Paul is trying to say. Only those who enter into God's rest can keep the Sabbath, as the Sabbath is STILL a symbol of our rest in God.
@Lysimachus78 Therefore, keeping the 4th Commandment is no longer apply to us now that we enter God's rest by believing in the good news we heard and believed and accpeted Christ as our Lord and Savior. Keeping the 7th day sabbath is like walking with a shadow--it's not real. The reality is the Kingdom of Heaven coming to us by believing the message of the gospel. Luke 16:16 talks about the ending of the teachings of the law and prophets.
@Lysimachus78 Now we have the Holy Spirit sealed us to the day of redemption, we have peace for our souls and we enter God's rest and remain in it for eternity.
@Lysimachus78 The Jewish keep the 7th day sabbath. Why did they fail to enter the real Sabbath? They do not do it with faith, but keep it outwardly according to written code--the law. Hebrews 4:9 is the spiritual sabbath we enter by faith in Christ. The weekly sabbath is a type of the real sabbath--heavenly rest. Why do you rest the shadow and not in the reality?
All I'm saying is that these days were on the same par as Christmas or Thanksgiving. It's not dealing with the largest of the 10 commandments...the 4th commandment that says "Remember the Sabbath day".
God knew that men would one day forget. You are fulfilling prophecy. Why do you choose to forget the most powerful command of the 10 commandments? The largest? The one DEAD SMACK IN THE CENTER??
@Lysimachus78 The 4th Commandment reminds us our sin. It points back to creation of what happen. Now we are justified by our faith in Christ, you and I remember how Christ set us free from sin. We did with Christ. Our baptism is a proof of that. We live for God now.
the 4th commandment reminds us of our sins, yes. But does "justificaton" mean "I'm justified, now I can go back and sin?" That's not Grace! Grace puts MORE responsibility on you to "GO and SIN NO MORE!" (John 8:11). Brother, you are preaching a false Cheap Antinomian Grace! Grace does not mean we can go and continue sinning! It simply means pardon for our PAST sins, but strength to continue overcoming future sins!
@Lysimachus78 1 Corinthians 9:20 says, "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law." Paul went on the Sabbath to the synagogue for the purpose of winning the Jew for Christ. Don't conclude that Paul kept the Sabbath command. Paul also said he became like the Gentiles to win the Gentiles for Christ. We must follow Paul's example too.
1 Corinthians 9:20 -- There is a difference between worshiping on the Sabbath the "Jewish way" vs. worshiping on the Sabbath the "Christian way".
Acts 17:2 says "AS HIS CUSTOM WAS"...not his Jewish friends, but HIS custom. This is a reflection of Christ's custom: Luke 4:16 "AS HIS CUSTOM WAS". Not the Jewish custom. Proof that His Sabbath keeping was not part of the Jewish custom? Read Acts 21:21 -- the Jews are accusing Paul of teaching the Gentiles to "NOT WALKING AFTER THE JEWISH CUSTOMS"
This is dumb. SDA's are on their way out. Religion is on its way out. No sign of any Sunday anything. They sniff around to some fabricated info regarding Sunday, then they add to it to make it into something. This is stupid.
Amen Jonothan! You wonder when the stream will end of these same old arguments that have been so thoroughly refuted. It's like they plug their ears and don't want to hear the proper interpretation to those passages.
You need to watch the new DVD series the church has brought out, its called RevelationHope. It was done by Jon Paulien and Graham Bradford. It is a look at Revelation using the bible and the bible alone. The bible answers itself, it does not need any body else.
Yep, let's believe, homosexuals will suddenly start going to church on Sunday. Jewish people will suddenly go to church. Radical muslims who bomb christians and non muslims will suddenly stop going to church on Friday and go on Sunday.
Therefore, if we allow the Bible to interpret itself, the "remnant" of Revelation 12:17 could refer to those who hold onto the prophetic writings of the Apostle John (Testimony of Jesus), particularly the book of Revelation. Therefore, any church that has the prophetic writings of John has the Testimony of Jesus and the Spirit of Prophecy.
1. According to Rev 12, this woman, which is the church is to appear after 1798 (John was dead long before)
2. This churches keeps the commandments of God
3. This church must preach the everlasting gospel of Rev 14:6-12 as Matt 24:14 says
So for this church to have the testimony of Jesus which is given to His servants the Prophets, it means that a Prophet which upholds the law of God and encourages the 3angels message, is in the midsts of this
John had the testimony of Jesus which we see in Rev 1:1-3 and that is clear indicating that He was a Prophet which gives more Biblical proof that a Prophet is raised in the remnant church which came up after 1798 as the Christians fled to America from the Persecution of the papal system. It can only be then that God will can reform His people just like when He reformed His people AFTER they left Egypt.
From 1798 onwards, God was building back up His church
It is good reasoning with that quote you brought up but there are more to investigate because John was told by the angel in Rev:
"Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of THY BRETHREN the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."
This shows that it is not just John that had the testimony of Jesus, but it was all the Prophets of God and so it is today that the Prophet EGW is of God
The woman also gave birth to Jesus! The woman stands for the true church through all time, including Judaism! My friend, your historicist view is old and outdated! Buy a book called "the end of Historicism"
@cornerstone111 how in the can judaism be included in the discussion of christ new church when they do not even believe in jesus christ that is why every man child born in israel they think it is the christ they are still waiting for the messiah they do not believe he came yet do your research properly i stand to be corrected if i am wrong and i hope you too respectfully disagreeing with your comment
The Bible tells us the Apostle John had the "testimony of Jesus" (Read Rev. 1:2,9). Obviously John had the "gift of prophecy" because he wrote the book of Revelation. Therefore, we are safe to say that John had the Spirit of Prophecy.
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant.."
EGW was inspired by God and lets leave it at that. The prob most SDA make is that some tend to exalt her words over the Bible or so it seems. Tell people more about the Bible and show them scriptures, and use her writings to further clarify points. But when you engross your arguments with sis white said this and that instead of the Bible, then good luck keeping the attention of your hearers. The bible is complete and its the only Word we need as humans to honor our God the Most High.
Sabbath reminds us that we are to be a Holy people, peculiar people. Keeping the Sabbath the way it is suppose to be kept, will teach us to keep the commandments of God. I see what your saying but you are looking at it as just a day but the spiritual exceeds the letter. For you to even keep the Sabbath, you have to make sure that what you feed your mind in the week for you to enter into the Rest with the Lord, so we are to be Holy all the time as God is Holy. Only through the grace of God.
I agree to a point. Sabbath is suppose to be a lifestyle? I am not going to stop wathcing rated "R" movies on just sabbath.-I am going to stop watching rated "R" movies. Because your temple is the temple of the Holy Spirit. I try to tell people do not get comfortable just because you keep the sabbath. because if you are not converted then you are not saved. Those that are lead by the Spirit of God are the Son's of God. You first have to be converted.
Exactly and thats what many people teach that as long as you keep the Sabbath, you are ok but thats reading it according to the letter and some in my church believe this too. There is so much to Learn and so much to unlearn
Where does it say in the bible that we are going to be persecuted for sabbath. The new testament church was persecuted for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ-(The Good News unto Salvation). People were being healed, demons were leaving people and souls were being saved.
That was a threat to the devils kingdom. I not speaking against Sabbath. I remind people that you are in danger if you make that your foundation. We have to examine ourselves.
If you study Daniel 3, it will basically play out what will happen with the Mark of the Beast.
Instead the Mark of Beast (Beast being Babylon) in the time of Daniel was idol worship and the 3 Hebrew mens lives were threatened because they choose to keep the Law of God, so today it has happened again. The Mark of the Beast (the beast being the papacy) is chaning the Sabbath to sunday.
So the principle is will you obey Gods word of mans
"Sunday is our MARK of authority..... The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
not just the Sabbath, but the 10 commandments. also how to live a righteous life to the best of your ability. Romans 12 - 15:13, 1st Corinthians 5 - 6:20, Galatians 5, Ephesians 5:1 - 21, Colossians 3 & 4:2 - 6, the list goes on but live your life but ask yourself is whatever youre doing pleasing God or hurting Him?
People eager to claim EGW plagiarised have no idea of the history of copyright and plagiarism.Most classics of lit. and art were based on copying the masters and bulding up on them no reference to the author.All Western culture is built on that principle.Don't believe?Check !There was no copyright per se in 19th C and EGW NEVER plagiarised in the modern meaning of the word, as it did not apply.Besides, how come she astounded many secular people by being right about things misunderstood by others
I appreciated this update on the Sunday Law issue. Please keep us(Believers) informed as the events occur so we might share these clips with others not of our faith. The Sunday Law is coming whether you believe it or not so wouldn't it be better if you choose to understand it and save your soul? Time is running out for all of us so bury yourselves in the arms of Jesus and be saved!He loves you so much!-Stargazer
Denise, when I asked "do yo follow Elllen" I didn't mean literally. Adventist follow her writings as being equal to the Bible, and say she is the Spirit of Prophecy. When you are baptized into the SDA church, you agree to this.
Mrs. White herself said that her writings are only meant to point the reader to the Bible. She said that if people would only read the Bible that there would be no need for her writings. The SDA church agrees with her. We do not put her writings on the same level as the Bible. The Bible is the greatest light. Her writings are a lesser light that leads people to the Bible i.e. Steps to Christ. How many non SDAs have turned to Christ through reading this book? Many.
459, I disagree with you: Baptismal Vow #8: "I accept the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church." (see next post)
"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."
The problem is that you forgot to read the preceding verses to see that this was at night. The Bible writers all counted a day as it was in Genesis ch 1. This was a meeting on a Saturday night and this can be seen by the fact that "there were many lamps" in the room. It was dark. The evening (sunset) is the beginning of the day. They were together all day for the sabbath. After the sabbath ended, they continued together into the night and until daybreak. No Sunday sacredness here. None.
I think you confuse sabbath with day of worship. Yes, Saturday is the Sabbath, no argument there. But isn't the Sabbath a day of rest; refrain from work? I hardly think worshipping Jesus on any other day then Sabbath is hardly a sin.
Do you follow Ellen White? Even she says its ok to worship on Sunday ...
Do you realize that Daniel was a sabbath keeper who worshipped God daily? A sabbath keeper wrote, "I will bless the Lord at all times, His praise shall continually be in my mouth". This does not sound like a once a week relationship with God. The idea that sabbath keepers only worship on sabbath is ridiculous. For 6 days we work & worship God. We don't keep everyday holy as the sabbath. Holy means different. I work any day of the week except the sabbath because the Sabbath is HOLY. See?
Sorry, but worshipping Jesus on Sunday is not the mark of the beast ... How can I politely say, "you've been brainwashed by the SDA's teaching of Ellen G. White."
he is the new age Christ. And the false prophet, his disciple "Master Jesus".
And they are not alone, they call them "ascended masters", we call them fallen angels ... New Agers openly worship these beings and they are preparing for the arrival of Maitreya the world teacher, the Christ .... Share Intl. afiliated with Lucis Trust, formerlly Lucifer Trust, prints United Nations Materials. Also keep a special room in the UN with an alter ....
The beast has a MARK, NUMBER AND NAME. Three different characteristics. The name is one thing, the number is something else and the mark is something else altogether. 666 is only the number of the beast.
#17 "The gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.
You disagree but you quote the church as saying that the BIBLE is the standard and not the writings of Mrs. White. Your disagreement has no basis. Does the church consider her writings as important? Yes. Does the church place her writings above the BIBLE? No. And your quote proves it.
This copying that you are referring to hardly seems fair if she is quoting someone else and crediting them for it unlike the apostle Paul who quoted many OT writers and never mentioned his sources. Would you call him a false prophet because of this? Next, I apologize for saying you said above the Bible. You said equal to the Bible and that is still wrong. It is because of her writings pointing the reader to the Bible that she is considered a prophet. Her prophecies also come to past i.e: 9/11.
Next point is this...you seem to disagree that the Bible names prophecy as one of the gifts of the Spirit. Read Romans 12 from the beginning and pay close attention when you get to verse 6 and onward. The read 1 Cor 12 and pay close attention when you get to verse 8. Start at the beginning so you don't say I am taking anything out of context. Jondadon2006 has already given you the texts in the book of Revelation. Once again, your argument has no basis.
I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 131
This didnt happen that makes her a false prophet. She also copied most of her writings ...
This doesn't make any sense. The seven last plagues written in the book of Revelations has not come to past yet. How can you judge something that has not yet happened as a prophecy not fulfilled. That would be like Eve deciding that God lied when he prophecied the coming of Christ in the garden because Cain was not the Messiah.
Do me a favor. From Moses to John the beloved, tell me how they are on different levels as prophets. A prophet is a person who speaks to the people of God based on what God says. My God says He is no respecter of persons. I don't think God views her any different to the others. Why should I. If you choose not to believe, that doesn't make her false. Jeremiah wasn't believed either.
The Great Controversy contains the pillars and foundation of Adventist theology.Ellen White copied these key doctrine in the Great Controversy from books written by James White. James White copied his books from books written by J. N. Andrews. Thus the ultimate source of Seventh-day Adventist theology is not God inspiring new truths to White, but plagiarizing (copying) J. N. Andrews.
Repentance is mandatory for salvation. Of course it is the fruit, but faith without works is dead (James 2:20) and whoever loves Jesus they will keep the commandments (John 14:15) if they don't, they don't love Jesus (1 Corinthians 16:22) Simon BELIEVED, and was baptized, but he was not saved, because he did not repent in acts chapter 8. The GOSPEL is not only the good news, It consists of Repentance, death to self, burial, and the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (2 Thessalonians 1:8)
TRASHING the 4th commandment/Saturday sabbath (MEMORIAL OF CREATION) is the most obvious religious con job/deception on EARTH. Just compare how 99% of the church use ACTS 20:7 and never teach about ACTS 13:42-44, 16:13, 17:2 and 18:4. If PAUL trashed the sabbath, why didn't he warn all of the gentiles in ACTS to stop hanging around the Jews and come worship with him on the SUNday/Lord's day. Anti-evolutionists shoot their creation campaign in the foot by deleting the weekly creation reminder.
TRASHING the 4th commandment/Saturday sabbath (MEMORIAL OF CREATION) is the most obvious religious con job/deception on EARTH. Just compare how 99% of the church use ACTS 20:7 and never teach about ACTS 13:42-44, 16:13, 17:2 and 18:4. If PAUL trashed the sabbath, why didn't he warn all of the gentiles in ACTS to stop hanging around the Jews and come worship with him on the SUNday/Lord's day. Anti-evolutionists shoot their creation campaign in the foot by deleting the weekly creation reminder.
Well said! All these so called "creationists" make a mockery out of God's Creation by promulgating it, yet destroying the very DAY that represents CREATION!
Does that make any sense?
Creationists do not realize it, but if they would proclaim the Sabbath, teach it, do it, live it, and KEEP it, their Creation Campaigns would have 10 FOLD more spiritual and convicting power with them!
My hope is also in Christ and I pray with all courage that you will come to the knowledge of him more and more daily. We share this truth out love not out of hatred or enmity. May God encourage you and keep you in his Word. Jesus is that Word that was made flesh to give us the true life. Obedience to God is not a work. It is a fruit of the Spirt. Something we are all as believer's should support unwaivering. Deeply rooted in love for love helps us keep his word. Watch my vid
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole [duty] of man.Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether it be evil.Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.Now, with that being said, the forth commandment is the Sabbath, Remember the sabbath day.
(James2:11)"For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not Kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet thou Kill, thou art become A transgressor of the Law".(Romans7:7)"What shall we say then? Is the Law Sin?God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: For I had not known lust, except the law had said, thou shalt not covet".
(Romans2:12) For as many as have Sinned with out the Law, shall also perish with out the Law: And as many as have Sinned in the Law shall be judged by the Law;(Romans2:13) "For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law shall be Justified."(James2:10)For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of All.
its friday sunset already here in the philippines....happy sabbath guys!!! watching this video and reading your comments got me thinking, if I or anyone else should try to pull a John Connor thing and try to prevent things from happening, because, even though we're faithful in Christ, we cant deny that the future is quite scary. But then again, I remember what Kate Brewster said in the film "We could just...let it go." (meaning let things go as they should)
well sayd people.. christ is coming and as the holly bible says somethings are going to happen.. n profecy was given from christ himself through hes profets so we can understand the signs of the times... the time is coming.. the great day is approaching. :). and we will keep the sabbath for all eternity according to the scripture.. God bless u all
What kind of love is it that refuses to spend time with Christ on the day that HE specify's... It is Love when we follow His Sabbath... not some man's interpretation of sabbath...When someone places satans day of worship over God's day, what kind of love is that...?????
Jutta - all seven days of the week are days that the Lord has made, we can rejoice and be glad in them. So the day is not bad, nor is worshiping God on any other day bad either. We can lift our voices in praise on a daily basis to Jesus Christ.
The sabbath was a shadow of the rest provided in Christ Jesus. Everything about the sabbath is a shadow and was given to Moses.
The issue is regarding following the commandments of God or the traditions of men. Sunday is not in the bible as a specified commandment. That is what the issue is about. Lukewarm christians say we shouldn't keep the law of God. So in a twisted way they want to continue in lying, adultery, stealing. Then get angry when a real christian wants to forsake sin and keep the law of God. I hope I clarifed this issue for you.
Its not so much about not keeping the law of God ..its about not being under the law given to Moses. The law which is considered the law of slavery..or the law of bondage..
We haven't been given the spirit of bondage but of adoption. The law was our teacher until Christ, now that christ is here he is to lead us.
The law was a shadow, given to reveal sin, and to lead to Christ. When one comes to christ he hides them, and is the end of the law for them so that they might not be condemned.
Those are the only commanments that point to what sin is. Since Jesus keep the commandments of God it is only logical that the we keep his commandments too. I can give you scripture to prove this but I'd rather just make it plain. Shall we continue in sin because we are under grace. GOD FORBID. Jesus saves us from sin. But it also says we must overcome the world. The world is in sin and darkness and doesn't know that destruction is near, even at the door. Jesus saves us from the Wrath to come.
Do not forget, 28 years later after Christ died on the Cross, Luke pointed back and said that the women prepared spices, and "kept the Sabbath ACCORDING to the commandment". According to Luke, after the New Covenant had been ratified at the Cross, the keeping of the Sabbath was "according to the Commandment". That is enough to sink the "Jesus finished the law" battleship. The 10 commandments were INSIDE the Ark, the "book of the law" was on the "side" of the Ark.
It should be pointed out that when the woman rested on the sabbath they still had not yet understood exactly what Christ came to do, the verse you are referring to is in Luke 23..but if you look in Luke 24, Luke was inspired to say:
And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the "scriptures"
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This is basically a direct reminder of what he said in Matthew 5:17
The apostles were hidden away in fear. Their eyes hadn't yet been opened to the true fact that Jesus fulfilled the law, until he reminded them of that fact.
He satisfied the law, and all who believe are justified. Not through our actions, but through his.
You believe it to be the ten commandments..but if you back track a little bit to Romans 2:27, you'll notice something:
The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
The law that the writer is speaking about in the book of Romans is the written code..The letter of the law..the Torah, and not solely the ten commandments.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law.
As believers we should do our best not to sin, but when it all comes down to it, our deeds will never allow us to be justified because to be justified by our deeds we'd have to keep the law(torah) 100% and if that were possible Jesus need not have died.
A man is justified WITHOUT the deeds of the law...but which Law in context is he speaking of? The Mosaic Laws. You have to distinguish which Law Paul is speaking of. The term "law" was generally used, but there are 2 laws. Paul used "law" at times for the Mosaic, and "law" at other times for the "Moral Law".
Example: "For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED." Romans 2:13. You see? In this context, its the moral
In Romans 2:27 is simply saying that you go according to the Law of Moses, but still be a law breaker in God's eyes. The 10 Commandments were written in stone. What is written in stone does not change. Jesus does not change. The handwritten shadowy laws in the Torah became meaningless, and the Tulmid was out of the question.
Once again, Jesus was making known to them that the Law of Moses was abrogated. The 10 Commandments were not part of the Mosaic Laws. And you can't separate the 4th from the 10. Plain and simple.
Jesus was repeating what he had told them from matthew 5:17-18, and letting them know that yes he did fulfill the law(Torah) and the prophets(Nevi'im).
You want to say matthew 5:17-18 is a different law than Luke 24:44, but it is one and the same. There is no difference between the word "law" in Luke 24:44 and the word "law" in Luke 23:56 and the word law in Matthew 5:17.
To the Jews the word "law" meant the entire law of Moses, which is the entire Law of God.
The law and the prophets means the (torah) and the "Nevi'im". This is something that you all try to go around. They mean the first and section section of the hebrew bible.
The phrase "The law and the prophets" in one verse isn't going to change and mean something in another
Matthew 5:17-18 talks about fulfilling the law and the prophets, and Luke 24:44 talks about how Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets
Two nearly identical passages, yet you want to separate them for your doctrine sake
5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "
Why did he waste his time telling them that they need to be taught? I guess you better start keeping the Torah then Myhopeisinhim. Your problem is, in verse 21, Jesus made it clear he was referring to the 10.
Actually keep on reading you will see that he threw in commandments given in the torah as well, he wasn't referring to just the ten but the entire law.
You can't just stop in verse 21 and say oh he mentioned murder he must mean the ten commandments. He talks about divorce, oaths, and eye for an eye(vs 31-41), things that are mentioned in the torah.
Jesus was under the entire law when he came to earth, and it was the entire law he came to fulfill.
My question also is, why does James (after Christ was ascended into heaven) emphasize the point that if we offend one point of the law, we are guilty of all? What law was he talking about? If it's not the Mosaic Laws (which you obviously agree we don't have to keep), then what Law can he be referring to other than the 10 commandments?
He was talking about the entire law of God, not just the ten commandments, but the entire law he gave to Moses.
James was stressing that we're all sinners, all a person has to do is break one and you are a lawbreaker of God's law.
Some people seem to think that they can try to live good lives and that God will be happy with them, but all we need to do is break one of them, as adam did and we're lost.
The law was given that we might see our need for God.
Jesus was and is the only person who was without sin. He came to fulfill his law so that we might be set free.
The law was given so that it would stop every single persons tongue. We can't judge anyone as we are all guilty.
Only Jesus was never guilty, yet in the end he became sin for us. Just like the scapegoat became sin for the people, Jesus became sin for us, and paid the price for it.
Now all who believe are made dead to the law through him.
Of course they are still going to teach about how we're sinners, its how we learn that we need to get right with God through his son Jesus Christ.
The law is not put there to make us righteous, it was put there to show us how unrighteous we are and that the only way to be made righteous is through believing on Jesus and his shed blood, how he took our sins upon himself and paid our price.
We have no other hope, James told us it only takes one, and we have all broken one.
Luke 6:46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (Note the word DO) You imply that doing G-d's laws is secondary to the testimony of Jesus Christ when they are BOTH required. And in so doing, you ignore Luke and turn Jesus into an idol. Therefore you break the second Commandment. But most important you disobey G-d and so ALL G-d's Law of Love is broken. Keep G-d's Sabbath, obey G-d, obey Jesus and stop looking for ways to justify disobeying.
7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
What I mean to say is, How can Paul say this if Jesus fulfilled it in the sense that it was abrogated?
By the way, the Greek word "fulfill" [pleroo] means to "fill up", to "live up to fully", but it does not mean "to end", or "to complete" like the other Greek words for "fulfill" mean.
Jesus lived up to the law and satisfied it fully for our sake, so that all who believe will be declared righteous in the eyes of God because of what he did.
All who believe in him are made dead to the law that condemns. And whoever is dead to the law is not bound by it any further. It can no longer condemn them.
This is why when jesus was asked, what is the greatest commandment in the law, he quoted two from the Mosaic law, the book of the law of God, and didn't ask for clarification for the mens' sake.
The character of God never changes, but consider the fact he 'became' human when he wasn't human before. Now he has a glorified body that he never had before.
'Who' God is never changes, but that doesn't mean that the laws he gave can't change. He was the one that told us it would change.
You've got to be kidding me. I hate to break it to you, but you're in your own little camp, all by yourself. Not even anyone else who doesn't believe we should't keep the Sabbath believes that the 2 commandments of Love were the Mosaic Laws. The Prophets were the voices God lifted up to repent, it was not speaking of Moses' laws. The 2 commandments are like your 10 fingers thang hang on your 2 hands. Very simple, very straightforward, even a child can understand.
The prophets are not the torah. The prophets were the second section of the hebrew bible I said..a few examples are:
The book of Joshua
The book of Jonah
The book of Samuel
The book of Kings
and more...There are about 19 books in total that make up this section...and only 5 which make up the Torah. This is what is referred to when the phrase "the law and the prophets" is used....you will notice in Luke 24 that he adds the Psalms, a book from the third section called the "writings".
All the sacrifices and rituals given in the law were to be greater fulfilled by Jesus Christ on the cross.
The story of Noah, and Moses, they all contained shadows of Jesus Christ. Not just the sacrifices, but the entire book of the law and the prophets.
Jesus was the one and only person to ever fulfill the entire law and prophets. He lived a spotless, sinless life and satisfied the standard of perfection God requires.
Through the cross, he satisfied the law on our behalf.
You cannot connect the law of moses in Luke 24:44 with Luke 23:56. Even though they may have not understood anything, Luke would not have written 'according to the commandment", because even if they did not understand, and it was not an obligation, according to Luke, it could not be "according to the commandment". This was a perfect opportunity for Luke to write that the Sabbath was no longer necessary. But he did not. You can't take a chisel and destroy the largest of the 10
Those that follow Jesus follow his teachings. Do you agree? I'll assume that since you are a believer you will agree. So sin you agree with that statement that Christians should follow Christ, what part of turning from sin doesn't make sense? Adultery, stealing, murder, blasphemy, disrespecting parents is Sin. Do you agree? If you do agree these are all commandments of God. Since they are commandments so also the 7th Day Sabbath is made for mankind to rest from labor. It is not a "work" to rest.
@Myhopeisinhim .....Not in any way is the Seventh day Sabbath a shadow of anything. It is a remembrance of creation and who the Creator is. The bible says: REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it Holy, Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the SEVENTH day IS the SABBATH of the LORD THY GOD....
No way bro.Malcee you cant deceive us with your false teaching no word found in the bible that sabbath is ended when Jesus died or the 4th commandments will be removed after crucifixion in fact after he died the disciple still keep the sabbath the 7th day and if you say again after resurrection then why the people still keep the 7th day until constantine came & change it who is constantine? is he more knowledgeable about bible than the disciples? or you only think just like constantine.
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Learn about an organization called the European Sunday Alliance, who seeks to create and enforce a law for all of Europe, forcing all people to rest on Sunday. Thereby preventing and controlling people's ability to "buy and sell" as commerce would be forbidden on Sundays. Except those business' the EU would decide could maintain the right to be open, by meeting Eu criteria. Penalties would be imposed upon those who defy the day of rest.
European Sunday Alliance & COMECE
tot792 5 months ago
The church in croatia has a majority on it's side since forced conversions, mass murder of non-Catholics, Catholic extermination camps headed by Catholic clergy and their employ of the ustashi in wwII. Look up The Vatican's Holocaust
They are, with the aid of the u.s. unseating leaders in the middle east as we speak who will be replaced by dictators in order to enforce their rule on the whole of the middle east as well.
artsychic2000 7 months ago
Revelation 14
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.
artsychic2000 7 months ago
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DEAR PEOPLE. PLEASE KNOW THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NEAR. MAY 21, 2011 WILL BE JUDGMENT DAY AND THE LORD WILL RETURN FOR HIS BELOVED. PRAY THAT YOU MIGHT BE ONE OF THE MULTITUDE THAT NO MAN CAN NUMBER THAT WILL BE SAVED ON THAT TERRIBLE DAY.
biochemist1661 1 year ago
Colossians 2:16-17 says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." What do we learn here? 1. festival refers to annual sabbaths and 7th year sabbath; 2. New moon refers to monthly sabbath; 3. Sabbath day refers to the weekly sabbath or 7th day sabbath. The bible is crystal clear and why do people still bind?
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIsSovereignty
My friend if you are saying that the Sabbath of the 10'C is blotted out, then you have to remove all. You have to make sure you are not referring to the ceremonial sabbaths in which they held sacrifices and feasts with the moral law Sabbath which identifies the creator as God
Jondadon2006 1 year ago 3
@Jondadon2006 Hebrews 4:9 is the real Sabbath. The 7 day sabbath reminds us of our sin after creation. Resting is a religious ceremonial.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIsSovereignty
How long are we going to continue hearing this Colossians 2:16-17 argument? It has been proven a long time ago that the "Sabbaths" being spoken about here (plural that is) is referring to the Jewish Sabbaths such as Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles/Uneleavened Bread, Feast of Trumpets, etc. Not the Seventh-Day Sabbath. Colossians 2:16 is in context of "meat offerings and drink offerings and festivals", and the 4th commandment mentions NOTHING about these ceremonies!
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 An apple is always an apple. You can't remove an apple from the bucket of apples and says it's not an apple. A day of rest is one of the day of rests.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIs
That is simply untrue. I have evaluated the text of Colossians 2:16 in the Greek. It is referring to feasts being held ON these Sabbaths, not the observance of the day themselves. It has to do with regarding of HOW you worship on these days, NOT that you cannot worship. The Greek is very clear with the phrase "en mere". Also, you should read the new book entitled "Judging the Sabbath: What Can't Be Found in Colossians 2:16" by Ron du Preez, Th.D, DMin, Ph.D.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@GodIs
In addition, you are reading Col 2:16 without other Bible texts to help you understand Col 2:16. We Adventists use the principle of Isaiah 28:9-11, which states that doctrine must be formed "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept". Col 2:16 cannot be canceling out the 4th commandment, because Isaiah 66:22,23 mention we will be keeping it in the New Earth, and Luke 23:56 says they kept the Sabbath "ACCORDING" to the commandment AFTER Christ died on the cross.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Isaiah 66:22,23, describes an everyday worship. Isaiah used figurative speech here.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIsSovereignty
Isaiah 66:22,23, is not speaking about every day worship. The fact that the word "Sabbath" is being used proves that it is a day of rest, because the very NAME "Sabbath" means "to pause", to "rest". You are a complete ignoramous if you wish to pretend that Sabbath observance is not implied in the text. Like I said, quit arguing! You're fighting a LOSING BATTLE! You are in rebellion against God, and you are on the highway STRAIGHT to perdition if you do not change.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@GodIs
Not to mention that Paul, just like Jesus' custom was, also worshiped EVERY Sabbath in the Synagogue and taught and persuaded both the Jews AND the Greeks (Acts 18:4), See also Acts 17:2, and Acts 13:42-44. Oh, and don't forget that Jesus told ALL those in the land of Judea (not just Jerusalem, so the locked gates are not in the equation here) to pray that their flight not be in the Winter neither on the Sabbath day (Acts 24:20).
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Romans 14:5 says that "One man (Jew or SDA) considers one day more sacred than another; another man (Gentile Christians) considers every day alike" If you consider the Sabbath more sacred, good for you. I'll consider all day alike. I am fully convinced in my mind.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIsSovereignty
Romans 14:5 is concerning days "men esteem", or "we esteem", not the Sabbath day of the Lord which "God esteems". So the subject for which you are proposing is OFF the panel! SORRY! :) Romans 14 is discussing days like we would think of Christmas or Thanksgiving. These days are not salvational, but if we are going to celebrate them, do them unto the Lord. Compare Romans 14 with 1 Cor 8, and you will see it is talking about eating meats sacrificed to idols on certain days.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Sorry, but Christmas or Thanksgiving does not exist back then.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIsSovereignty
Try to get my point. The Jewish festivals such as Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Day of Atonement, First Fruits, Feast of Trumpets, Passover, etc. etc..... were no longer required, but were not prohibited either. They were now like celebration days if they wanted. It was up to them. Paul in Romans 14 is in context of days then men "esteem". Also, the word "alike" is not in the Greek. Famous commentarians such as Adam Clarke and Albert Barnes agree with me
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Paul was a very high educated man. He knew what he meant by "every day alike". But he didn't exclude the Sabbath day. Paul did not say that the 7th day rest is more sacred still. In Paul's time, the Jewish Christians imposed their religious rules to the Gentile Christians, including imposing the 7th day rest as more sacred day. Paul said no. In Christ, anyone can choose what day is sacred as long as he does it to the Lord.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIs
Paul does say the Sabbath day is still sacred. He says clearly in Hebrews 4:9:
"There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God." (Hebrews 4:9).
But even if Paul didn't, the burden of proof is on you where Paul would have to say the Seventh-Day is no longer sacred. But he did not. Whatever is given in the Old Testament remains in the New Testament, UNLESS it is clearly canceled out. And Colossians 2:16 doesn't do that, as it is talking about the festival Sabbaths.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Are you sure you understand Hebrews 4:9? This is the true Sabbath for the people of God. I agree with you, but it's the reality of the 7th day sabbath, a shadow. Hebrews 4:9 is God's rest and we enter and remain in it. Do you remain in the 7th day Sabbath? No. You rest one day and works 6 days again. Tell me, how do we enter the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9?
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIs
You can trust me on Hebrews 4:9. I have read the whole chapter of Hebrews 3 and 4 many many times to grasp the concept, and also compared to the Greek to help conceptualize it. The message is this: The "rest" (katapausis) existed in the days of Joshua (old Covenant), but they failed to enter this rest, therefore, were not able to keep the Sabbath. In the day of David (New Covenant), the Sabbath rest STILL remains (from Joshua's day) as a sign to represent our "katapausis" (rest in Jesus)
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Hebrews 4:4 reminds us of God's rest (7th day). Adam and Eve remained in God's rest until they sinned and God kicked them out. No one had entered God's rest since. The 4th Commandment reminds the Israelites (now us) of what we had with God after creation. We had been kicked out. What then now? We have a second chance to enter God's rest (Hebrews 4:9)--our heavenly rest. How do we enter this rest? By believing in the good news preached to us.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIs
In other words, the "Sabbatismos" rest in Heb 4:9 is the OUTWARD expression to represent our Rest in Christ. Only those who have entered into the "katapausis" rest can truly enter into the seventh-day rest. That is the message in Heb 4. Since the Jews failed to enter into the "katapausis", they were never able to keep the "Sabbatismos". That's what Paul is trying to say. Only those who enter into God's rest can keep the Sabbath, as the Sabbath is STILL a symbol of our rest in God.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Therefore, keeping the 4th Commandment is no longer apply to us now that we enter God's rest by believing in the good news we heard and believed and accpeted Christ as our Lord and Savior. Keeping the 7th day sabbath is like walking with a shadow--it's not real. The reality is the Kingdom of Heaven coming to us by believing the message of the gospel. Luke 16:16 talks about the ending of the teachings of the law and prophets.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Now we have the Holy Spirit sealed us to the day of redemption, we have peace for our souls and we enter God's rest and remain in it for eternity.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 The Jewish keep the 7th day sabbath. Why did they fail to enter the real Sabbath? They do not do it with faith, but keep it outwardly according to written code--the law. Hebrews 4:9 is the spiritual sabbath we enter by faith in Christ. The weekly sabbath is a type of the real sabbath--heavenly rest. Why do you rest the shadow and not in the reality?
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
All I'm saying is that these days were on the same par as Christmas or Thanksgiving. It's not dealing with the largest of the 10 commandments...the 4th commandment that says "Remember the Sabbath day".
God knew that men would one day forget. You are fulfilling prophecy. Why do you choose to forget the most powerful command of the 10 commandments? The largest? The one DEAD SMACK IN THE CENTER??
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 The 4th Commandment reminds us our sin. It points back to creation of what happen. Now we are justified by our faith in Christ, you and I remember how Christ set us free from sin. We did with Christ. Our baptism is a proof of that. We live for God now.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@GodIsSovereignty
the 4th commandment reminds us of our sins, yes. But does "justificaton" mean "I'm justified, now I can go back and sin?" That's not Grace! Grace puts MORE responsibility on you to "GO and SIN NO MORE!" (John 8:11). Brother, you are preaching a false Cheap Antinomian Grace! Grace does not mean we can go and continue sinning! It simply means pardon for our PAST sins, but strength to continue overcoming future sins!
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 I meant we died with Christ.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 1 Corinthians 9:20 says, "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law." Paul went on the Sabbath to the synagogue for the purpose of winning the Jew for Christ. Don't conclude that Paul kept the Sabbath command. Paul also said he became like the Gentiles to win the Gentiles for Christ. We must follow Paul's example too.
GodIsSovereignty 1 year ago
1 Corinthians 9:20 -- There is a difference between worshiping on the Sabbath the "Jewish way" vs. worshiping on the Sabbath the "Christian way".
Acts 17:2 says "AS HIS CUSTOM WAS"...not his Jewish friends, but HIS custom. This is a reflection of Christ's custom: Luke 4:16 "AS HIS CUSTOM WAS". Not the Jewish custom. Proof that His Sabbath keeping was not part of the Jewish custom? Read Acts 21:21 -- the Jews are accusing Paul of teaching the Gentiles to "NOT WALKING AFTER THE JEWISH CUSTOMS"
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
This is dumb. SDA's are on their way out. Religion is on its way out. No sign of any Sunday anything. They sniff around to some fabricated info regarding Sunday, then they add to it to make it into something. This is stupid.
NBAGOATS 1 year ago
@NBAGOATS
My friend it shows you have a hatred for SDA
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
@NBAGOATS then don't watch it.
ghostdancer1984 1 year ago
acts 20:7 and1 corinthians16:2 colossians 2:16-17 speak to warship on sunday
williemetoyer23 1 year ago
@williemetoyer23
Thanks for your comment. As you read these verses in context, you will see a clear understanding
Acts 20:7 was a Saturday night
1 Cor 16:2 was talking of when the collection was to be so when He was on His mission, He did not have to delay
Col 2:14-17 was talking of the ceremonial laws which had the ceremonial sabbaths and not the Sabbath of the 10'C
The Sabbath of the 10'C points out that Jesus is Creator
The ceremonial Sabbaths pointed to the feasts and sacrifices. Different
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
@Jondadon2006
Amen Jonothan! You wonder when the stream will end of these same old arguments that have been so thoroughly refuted. It's like they plug their ears and don't want to hear the proper interpretation to those passages.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@williemetoyer23
stop confusing idiot...
777kems 5 months ago
nicely done :)
808758 1 year ago
You need to watch the new DVD series the church has brought out, its called RevelationHope. It was done by Jon Paulien and Graham Bradford. It is a look at Revelation using the bible and the bible alone. The bible answers itself, it does not need any body else.
cornerstone111 1 year ago
@cornerstone111 you need someone to interpt it
williemetoyer23 1 year ago
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Yep, let's believe, homosexuals will suddenly start going to church on Sunday. Jewish people will suddenly go to church. Radical muslims who bomb christians and non muslims will suddenly stop going to church on Friday and go on Sunday.
JesusIsEnough777 1 year ago
Of the TEN Commandments... it is ALWAYS the focus of ONE.
eatatmargos 1 year ago
Therefore, if we allow the Bible to interpret itself, the "remnant" of Revelation 12:17 could refer to those who hold onto the prophetic writings of the Apostle John (Testimony of Jesus), particularly the book of Revelation. Therefore, any church that has the prophetic writings of John has the Testimony of Jesus and the Spirit of Prophecy.
cornerstone111 2 years ago
But you also have to note a few more things.
1. According to Rev 12, this woman, which is the church is to appear after 1798 (John was dead long before)
2. This churches keeps the commandments of God
3. This church must preach the everlasting gospel of Rev 14:6-12 as Matt 24:14 says
So for this church to have the testimony of Jesus which is given to His servants the Prophets, it means that a Prophet which upholds the law of God and encourages the 3angels message, is in the midsts of this
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
John had the testimony of Jesus which we see in Rev 1:1-3 and that is clear indicating that He was a Prophet which gives more Biblical proof that a Prophet is raised in the remnant church which came up after 1798 as the Christians fled to America from the Persecution of the papal system. It can only be then that God will can reform His people just like when He reformed His people AFTER they left Egypt.
From 1798 onwards, God was building back up His church
Joel 2:28,29
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
It is good reasoning with that quote you brought up but there are more to investigate because John was told by the angel in Rev:
"Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of THY BRETHREN the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."
This shows that it is not just John that had the testimony of Jesus, but it was all the Prophets of God and so it is today that the Prophet EGW is of God
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
The woman also gave birth to Jesus! The woman stands for the true church through all time, including Judaism! My friend, your historicist view is old and outdated! Buy a book called "the end of Historicism"
cornerstone111 2 years ago
Judaism left the path which Christ had established. My friend the book where I get the answers is in the Bible.
The woman is the people of God which was persecuted by the papal system for that 1260 years
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
@cornerstone111 how in the can judaism be included in the discussion of christ new church when they do not even believe in jesus christ that is why every man child born in israel they think it is the christ they are still waiting for the messiah they do not believe he came yet do your research properly i stand to be corrected if i am wrong and i hope you too respectfully disagreeing with your comment
timelesskoontah 1 year ago
@timelesskoontah Salvation is of the Jews, the Messiah came through the Jewish line. Before Christ they were the true Church.
cornerstone111 1 year ago
The Bible tells us the Apostle John had the "testimony of Jesus" (Read Rev. 1:2,9). Obviously John had the "gift of prophecy" because he wrote the book of Revelation. Therefore, we are safe to say that John had the Spirit of Prophecy.
cornerstone111 2 years ago
And still you're interested in there way of life?
qui3tude 2 years ago
The fool has said in his heart, 'there is no God.'" (Psalms 14:1)
jalisa146 2 years ago
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant.."
2 Pe 3:3-5
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
EGW was inspired by God and lets leave it at that. The prob most SDA make is that some tend to exalt her words over the Bible or so it seems. Tell people more about the Bible and show them scriptures, and use her writings to further clarify points. But when you engross your arguments with sis white said this and that instead of the Bible, then good luck keeping the attention of your hearers. The bible is complete and its the only Word we need as humans to honor our God the Most High.
pradaluggage2 2 years ago
I agree witht the fact that we should not consider EGW's writings as equal or more than the Bible. The Bible alone must be our sole reference.
sahvielle 2 years ago
So, all I have to do is keep the Sabbath and I can go to haeaven? Is this only thing that separates me from the remnant church?
ncdynasty 2 years ago
Sabbath reminds us that we are to be a Holy people, peculiar people. Keeping the Sabbath the way it is suppose to be kept, will teach us to keep the commandments of God. I see what your saying but you are looking at it as just a day but the spiritual exceeds the letter. For you to even keep the Sabbath, you have to make sure that what you feed your mind in the week for you to enter into the Rest with the Lord, so we are to be Holy all the time as God is Holy. Only through the grace of God.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, *we should live* soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:11,12
Hope this helps
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
I agree to a point. Sabbath is suppose to be a lifestyle? I am not going to stop wathcing rated "R" movies on just sabbath.-I am going to stop watching rated "R" movies. Because your temple is the temple of the Holy Spirit. I try to tell people do not get comfortable just because you keep the sabbath. because if you are not converted then you are not saved. Those that are lead by the Spirit of God are the Son's of God. You first have to be converted.
ncdynasty 2 years ago
Exactly and thats what many people teach that as long as you keep the Sabbath, you are ok but thats reading it according to the letter and some in my church believe this too. There is so much to Learn and so much to unlearn
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Where does it say in the bible that we are going to be persecuted for sabbath. The new testament church was persecuted for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ-(The Good News unto Salvation). People were being healed, demons were leaving people and souls were being saved.
That was a threat to the devils kingdom. I not speaking against Sabbath. I remind people that you are in danger if you make that your foundation. We have to examine ourselves.
ncdynasty 2 years ago
If you study Daniel 3, it will basically play out what will happen with the Mark of the Beast.
Instead the Mark of Beast (Beast being Babylon) in the time of Daniel was idol worship and the 3 Hebrew mens lives were threatened because they choose to keep the Law of God, so today it has happened again. The Mark of the Beast (the beast being the papacy) is chaning the Sabbath to sunday.
So the principle is will you obey Gods word of mans
Here is more info on the Mark of the Papacy
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
"Sunday is our MARK of authority..... The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
Hope this helps
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
not just the Sabbath, but the 10 commandments. also how to live a righteous life to the best of your ability. Romans 12 - 15:13, 1st Corinthians 5 - 6:20, Galatians 5, Ephesians 5:1 - 21, Colossians 3 & 4:2 - 6, the list goes on but live your life but ask yourself is whatever youre doing pleasing God or hurting Him?
xdst84 2 years ago
People eager to claim EGW plagiarised have no idea of the history of copyright and plagiarism.Most classics of lit. and art were based on copying the masters and bulding up on them no reference to the author.All Western culture is built on that principle.Don't believe?Check !There was no copyright per se in 19th C and EGW NEVER plagiarised in the modern meaning of the word, as it did not apply.Besides, how come she astounded many secular people by being right about things misunderstood by others
lukoza1 2 years ago
I appreciated this update on the Sunday Law issue. Please keep us(Believers) informed as the events occur so we might share these clips with others not of our faith. The Sunday Law is coming whether you believe it or not so wouldn't it be better if you choose to understand it and save your soul? Time is running out for all of us so bury yourselves in the arms of Jesus and be saved!He loves you so much!-Stargazer
StargazingForJesus 2 years ago 2
patienceprence - Are u a Jesuit or Freemason something or other?
elroytim 2 years ago
Denise, when I asked "do yo follow Elllen" I didn't mean literally. Adventist follow her writings as being equal to the Bible, and say she is the Spirit of Prophecy. When you are baptized into the SDA church, you agree to this.
patienceprence 2 years ago
Mrs. White herself said that her writings are only meant to point the reader to the Bible. She said that if people would only read the Bible that there would be no need for her writings. The SDA church agrees with her. We do not put her writings on the same level as the Bible. The Bible is the greatest light. Her writings are a lesser light that leads people to the Bible i.e. Steps to Christ. How many non SDAs have turned to Christ through reading this book? Many.
459triple3 2 years ago
459, I disagree with you: Baptismal Vow #8: "I accept the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church." (see next post)
patienceprence 2 years ago
Revelation 12:17
Compare with
Revelation 19:10 with Rev 22:8,9
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Acts 20:7
"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."
Look like Paul preached on Sunday ...
patienceprence 2 years ago
The problem is that you forgot to read the preceding verses to see that this was at night. The Bible writers all counted a day as it was in Genesis ch 1. This was a meeting on a Saturday night and this can be seen by the fact that "there were many lamps" in the room. It was dark. The evening (sunset) is the beginning of the day. They were together all day for the sabbath. After the sabbath ended, they continued together into the night and until daybreak. No Sunday sacredness here. None.
459triple3 2 years ago
Denise, so I can only worship on Saturday?
I think you confuse sabbath with day of worship. Yes, Saturday is the Sabbath, no argument there. But isn't the Sabbath a day of rest; refrain from work? I hardly think worshipping Jesus on any other day then Sabbath is hardly a sin.
Do you follow Ellen White? Even she says its ok to worship on Sunday ...
patienceprence 2 years ago
Do you realize that Daniel was a sabbath keeper who worshipped God daily? A sabbath keeper wrote, "I will bless the Lord at all times, His praise shall continually be in my mouth". This does not sound like a once a week relationship with God. The idea that sabbath keepers only worship on sabbath is ridiculous. For 6 days we work & worship God. We don't keep everyday holy as the sabbath. Holy means different. I work any day of the week except the sabbath because the Sabbath is HOLY. See?
459triple3 2 years ago
Oh, are you the children of Isreal???
patienceprence 2 years ago
Sorry, but worshipping Jesus on Sunday is not the mark of the beast ... How can I politely say, "you've been brainwashed by the SDA's teaching of Ellen G. White."
patienceprence 2 years ago
I think the Bible is clear. it is the number of a man (666). The mark will be his mark, the antichrist's.
Maitreya equates to 666 (in the Hebrew gemetria ; MUM=40, ALEPH=1, TAV=400, RUSH=200, YOD=10, YOD=10, HEI=5 = 666
Patience Prence Author Scars w w w (dot) thespringharvest (dot) com
patienceprence 2 years ago
does this have the other characteristice of Rev 13?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
ABSOLUTELY! Google "Maitreya share"
he is the new age Christ. And the false prophet, his disciple "Master Jesus".
And they are not alone, they call them "ascended masters", we call them fallen angels ... New Agers openly worship these beings and they are preparing for the arrival of Maitreya the world teacher, the Christ .... Share Intl. afiliated with Lucis Trust, formerlly Lucifer Trust, prints United Nations Materials. Also keep a special room in the UN with an alter ....
patienceprence 2 years ago
The beast has a MARK, NUMBER AND NAME. Three different characteristics. The name is one thing, the number is something else and the mark is something else altogether. 666 is only the number of the beast.
459triple3 2 years ago
459,
Official SDA Creed
#17 "The gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.
patienceprence 2 years ago
"The gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
You disagree but you quote the church as saying that the BIBLE is the standard and not the writings of Mrs. White. Your disagreement has no basis. Does the church consider her writings as important? Yes. Does the church place her writings above the BIBLE? No. And your quote proves it.
459triple3 2 years ago
459, Did I say the church put EGW's writings above the Bible? No ...
patienceprence 2 years ago
This copying that you are referring to hardly seems fair if she is quoting someone else and crediting them for it unlike the apostle Paul who quoted many OT writers and never mentioned his sources. Would you call him a false prophet because of this? Next, I apologize for saying you said above the Bible. You said equal to the Bible and that is still wrong. It is because of her writings pointing the reader to the Bible that she is considered a prophet. Her prophecies also come to past i.e: 9/11.
459triple3 2 years ago 2
Next point is this...you seem to disagree that the Bible names prophecy as one of the gifts of the Spirit. Read Romans 12 from the beginning and pay close attention when you get to verse 6 and onward. The read 1 Cor 12 and pay close attention when you get to verse 8. Start at the beginning so you don't say I am taking anything out of context. Jondadon2006 has already given you the texts in the book of Revelation. Once again, your argument has no basis.
459triple3 2 years ago
Ellen G white is a false prophet. No, I don't disagree with the Bible, but the Adventist hold her as an equal prophet of the Bible.
patienceprence 2 years ago
Ellen White Says,
I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 131
This didnt happen that makes her a false prophet. She also copied most of her writings ...
patienceprence 2 years ago
This doesn't make any sense. The seven last plagues written in the book of Revelations has not come to past yet. How can you judge something that has not yet happened as a prophecy not fulfilled. That would be like Eve deciding that God lied when he prophecied the coming of Christ in the garden because Cain was not the Messiah.
459triple3 2 years ago
Do me a favor. From Moses to John the beloved, tell me how they are on different levels as prophets. A prophet is a person who speaks to the people of God based on what God says. My God says He is no respecter of persons. I don't think God views her any different to the others. Why should I. If you choose not to believe, that doesn't make her false. Jeremiah wasn't believed either.
459triple3 2 years ago 2
No we don't . We use the Bible to prove her. We don't use Ellen White to prove the Bible.
stoag77 2 years ago
The Great Controversy contains the pillars and foundation of Adventist theology.Ellen White copied these key doctrine in the Great Controversy from books written by James White. James White copied his books from books written by J. N. Andrews. Thus the ultimate source of Seventh-day Adventist theology is not God inspiring new truths to White, but plagiarizing (copying) J. N. Andrews.
patienceprence 2 years ago
Repentance is mandatory for salvation. Of course it is the fruit, but faith without works is dead (James 2:20) and whoever loves Jesus they will keep the commandments (John 14:15) if they don't, they don't love Jesus (1 Corinthians 16:22) Simon BELIEVED, and was baptized, but he was not saved, because he did not repent in acts chapter 8. The GOSPEL is not only the good news, It consists of Repentance, death to self, burial, and the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (2 Thessalonians 1:8)
Jesusisthetruevine 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
TRASHING the 4th commandment/Saturday sabbath (MEMORIAL OF CREATION) is the most obvious religious con job/deception on EARTH. Just compare how 99% of the church use ACTS 20:7 and never teach about ACTS 13:42-44, 16:13, 17:2 and 18:4. If PAUL trashed the sabbath, why didn't he warn all of the gentiles in ACTS to stop hanging around the Jews and come worship with him on the SUNday/Lord's day. Anti-evolutionists shoot their creation campaign in the foot by deleting the weekly creation reminder.
gettalifenow 2 years ago
TRASHING the 4th commandment/Saturday sabbath (MEMORIAL OF CREATION) is the most obvious religious con job/deception on EARTH. Just compare how 99% of the church use ACTS 20:7 and never teach about ACTS 13:42-44, 16:13, 17:2 and 18:4. If PAUL trashed the sabbath, why didn't he warn all of the gentiles in ACTS to stop hanging around the Jews and come worship with him on the SUNday/Lord's day. Anti-evolutionists shoot their creation campaign in the foot by deleting the weekly creation reminder.
gettalifenow 2 years ago
Well said! All these so called "creationists" make a mockery out of God's Creation by promulgating it, yet destroying the very DAY that represents CREATION!
Does that make any sense?
Creationists do not realize it, but if they would proclaim the Sabbath, teach it, do it, live it, and KEEP it, their Creation Campaigns would have 10 FOLD more spiritual and convicting power with them!
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
brother Jon thanks for posting this, excellent and clear as crystal :) God bless man.
rusda2 2 years ago
To myhopeisinhim:
My hope is also in Christ and I pray with all courage that you will come to the knowledge of him more and more daily. We share this truth out love not out of hatred or enmity. May God encourage you and keep you in his Word. Jesus is that Word that was made flesh to give us the true life. Obedience to God is not a work. It is a fruit of the Spirt. Something we are all as believer's should support unwaivering. Deeply rooted in love for love helps us keep his word. Watch my vid
rickydepths1 2 years ago 3
"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Exodus 20:6
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
Mrand79 2 years ago 3
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole [duty] of man.Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether it be evil.Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.Now, with that being said, the forth commandment is the Sabbath, Remember the sabbath day.
dvining40us 2 years ago
(James2:11)"For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not Kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet thou Kill, thou art become A transgressor of the Law".(Romans7:7)"What shall we say then? Is the Law Sin?God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: For I had not known lust, except the law had said, thou shalt not covet".
dvining40us 2 years ago
(Romans2:12) For as many as have Sinned with out the Law, shall also perish with out the Law: And as many as have Sinned in the Law shall be judged by the Law;(Romans2:13) "For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law shall be Justified."(James2:10)For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of All.
dvining40us 2 years ago
its friday sunset already here in the philippines....happy sabbath guys!!! watching this video and reading your comments got me thinking, if I or anyone else should try to pull a John Connor thing and try to prevent things from happening, because, even though we're faithful in Christ, we cant deny that the future is quite scary. But then again, I remember what Kate Brewster said in the film "We could just...let it go." (meaning let things go as they should)
Hope we see each other in heaven guys
illusoryorbnurse 3 years ago 2
well sayd people.. christ is coming and as the holly bible says somethings are going to happen.. n profecy was given from christ himself through hes profets so we can understand the signs of the times... the time is coming.. the great day is approaching. :). and we will keep the sabbath for all eternity according to the scripture.. God bless u all
xzurdohuggo 3 years ago 2
Chick-fil-a
is a christian restaurant and they are not open on Sunday...
Xmokko 3 years ago
Well it is in vain.
DigitalPraise7 2 years ago 3
Don't worry if Sunday Law comes brother Jondadon. The thing that worried me only is that I might be separated from God.
ephraim123628 3 years ago
Stick with Jesus and you'd be safe.
KevinDukekmd 3 years ago 3
Thats true but we must alert people on the times we are living in to let them know that it is serious that we get our lives right with Christ.
God bless and thanks
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
What kind of love is it that refuses to spend time with Christ on the day that HE specify's... It is Love when we follow His Sabbath... not some man's interpretation of sabbath...When someone places satans day of worship over God's day, what kind of love is that...?????
juttakarin 3 years ago 5
Jutta - all seven days of the week are days that the Lord has made, we can rejoice and be glad in them. So the day is not bad, nor is worshiping God on any other day bad either. We can lift our voices in praise on a daily basis to Jesus Christ.
The sabbath was a shadow of the rest provided in Christ Jesus. Everything about the sabbath is a shadow and was given to Moses.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
The issue is regarding following the commandments of God or the traditions of men. Sunday is not in the bible as a specified commandment. That is what the issue is about. Lukewarm christians say we shouldn't keep the law of God. So in a twisted way they want to continue in lying, adultery, stealing. Then get angry when a real christian wants to forsake sin and keep the law of God. I hope I clarifed this issue for you.
rickydepths1 2 years ago 2
Its not so much about not keeping the law of God ..its about not being under the law given to Moses. The law which is considered the law of slavery..or the law of bondage..
We haven't been given the spirit of bondage but of adoption. The law was our teacher until Christ, now that christ is here he is to lead us.
The law was a shadow, given to reveal sin, and to lead to Christ. When one comes to christ he hides them, and is the end of the law for them so that they might not be condemned.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
May I ask you why you think that the word "commandments" refers to the ten commandments?
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Those are the only commanments that point to what sin is. Since Jesus keep the commandments of God it is only logical that the we keep his commandments too. I can give you scripture to prove this but I'd rather just make it plain. Shall we continue in sin because we are under grace. GOD FORBID. Jesus saves us from sin. But it also says we must overcome the world. The world is in sin and darkness and doesn't know that destruction is near, even at the door. Jesus saves us from the Wrath to come.
rickydepths1 2 years ago
Since Jesus keep the commandments of God it is only logical that the we keep his commandments too.
Why do you think Jesus kept the law of God? Don't forget, he was also circumcised after the manner of the law.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Myhopeisinhim,
Do not forget, 28 years later after Christ died on the Cross, Luke pointed back and said that the women prepared spices, and "kept the Sabbath ACCORDING to the commandment". According to Luke, after the New Covenant had been ratified at the Cross, the keeping of the Sabbath was "according to the Commandment". That is enough to sink the "Jesus finished the law" battleship. The 10 commandments were INSIDE the Ark, the "book of the law" was on the "side" of the Ark.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago 2
It should be pointed out that when the woman rested on the sabbath they still had not yet understood exactly what Christ came to do, the verse you are referring to is in Luke 23..but if you look in Luke 24, Luke was inspired to say:
And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
more...
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the "scriptures"
---
This is basically a direct reminder of what he said in Matthew 5:17
The apostles were hidden away in fear. Their eyes hadn't yet been opened to the true fact that Jesus fulfilled the law, until he reminded them of that fact.
He satisfied the law, and all who believe are justified. Not through our actions, but through his.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
You say is it about faith but Paul CLEARLY gives the answer
"Do we then make void the law THROUGH FAITH? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. " Rom 3:31
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
The question then stands what law?
You believe it to be the ten commandments..but if you back track a little bit to Romans 2:27, you'll notice something:
The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
The law that the writer is speaking about in the book of Romans is the written code..The letter of the law..the Torah, and not solely the ten commandments.
more...
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law.
As believers we should do our best not to sin, but when it all comes down to it, our deeds will never allow us to be justified because to be justified by our deeds we'd have to keep the law(torah) 100% and if that were possible Jesus need not have died.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Myhopeisinhim,
A man is justified WITHOUT the deeds of the law...but which Law in context is he speaking of? The Mosaic Laws. You have to distinguish which Law Paul is speaking of. The term "law" was generally used, but there are 2 laws. Paul used "law" at times for the Mosaic, and "law" at other times for the "Moral Law".
Example: "For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED." Romans 2:13. You see? In this context, its the moral
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
In Romans 2:27 is simply saying that you go according to the Law of Moses, but still be a law breaker in God's eyes. The 10 Commandments were written in stone. What is written in stone does not change. Jesus does not change. The handwritten shadowy laws in the Torah became meaningless, and the Tulmid was out of the question.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
Once again, Jesus was making known to them that the Law of Moses was abrogated. The 10 Commandments were not part of the Mosaic Laws. And you can't separate the 4th from the 10. Plain and simple.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
Jesus was repeating what he had told them from matthew 5:17-18, and letting them know that yes he did fulfill the law(Torah) and the prophets(Nevi'im).
You want to say matthew 5:17-18 is a different law than Luke 24:44, but it is one and the same. There is no difference between the word "law" in Luke 24:44 and the word "law" in Luke 23:56 and the word law in Matthew 5:17.
To the Jews the word "law" meant the entire law of Moses, which is the entire Law of God.
more...
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
No, Jesus in Matthew 5:17-18 was speaking of the 10 commandments. Not the Mosaic Laws. Don't try to rationalize your way around the truth.
It is different. It is NOT one and the same. No matter how you try to make it.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
The law and the prophets means the (torah) and the "Nevi'im". This is something that you all try to go around. They mean the first and section section of the hebrew bible.
The phrase "The law and the prophets" in one verse isn't going to change and mean something in another
Matthew 5:17-18 talks about fulfilling the law and the prophets, and Luke 24:44 talks about how Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets
Two nearly identical passages, yet you want to separate them for your doctrine sake
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Then why does Jesus say:
5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "
Why did he waste his time telling them that they need to be taught? I guess you better start keeping the Torah then Myhopeisinhim. Your problem is, in verse 21, Jesus made it clear he was referring to the 10.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago 2
Actually keep on reading you will see that he threw in commandments given in the torah as well, he wasn't referring to just the ten but the entire law.
You can't just stop in verse 21 and say oh he mentioned murder he must mean the ten commandments. He talks about divorce, oaths, and eye for an eye(vs 31-41), things that are mentioned in the torah.
Jesus was under the entire law when he came to earth, and it was the entire law he came to fulfill.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Myhopeisinhim,
So you are saying that the 10 commandments are no longer binding? That they are included with the rest of the laws?
Lysimachus78 2 years ago 2
My question also is, why does James (after Christ was ascended into heaven) emphasize the point that if we offend one point of the law, we are guilty of all? What law was he talking about? If it's not the Mosaic Laws (which you obviously agree we don't have to keep), then what Law can he be referring to other than the 10 commandments?
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
He was talking about the entire law of God, not just the ten commandments, but the entire law he gave to Moses.
James was stressing that we're all sinners, all a person has to do is break one and you are a lawbreaker of God's law.
Some people seem to think that they can try to live good lives and that God will be happy with them, but all we need to do is break one of them, as adam did and we're lost.
The law was given that we might see our need for God.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Jesus was and is the only person who was without sin. He came to fulfill his law so that we might be set free.
The law was given so that it would stop every single persons tongue. We can't judge anyone as we are all guilty.
Only Jesus was never guilty, yet in the end he became sin for us. Just like the scapegoat became sin for the people, Jesus became sin for us, and paid the price for it.
Now all who believe are made dead to the law through him.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Of course they are still going to teach about how we're sinners, its how we learn that we need to get right with God through his son Jesus Christ.
The law is not put there to make us righteous, it was put there to show us how unrighteous we are and that the only way to be made righteous is through believing on Jesus and his shed blood, how he took our sins upon himself and paid our price.
We have no other hope, James told us it only takes one, and we have all broken one.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
We need to be hidden in Jesus, made dead to the law which condemns, or we stand no hope.
We have no other plea, its all Jesus and only him.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
ofcourse We need to be hidden in Jesus.
What is your understanding to being dead to the law?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Think about marriage:
A woman is bound to her husband for as long as either of them is alive, right? What happens when her husband dies?
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
so your saying the Ten Commandments no longer apply including the ceremonial laws?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
What happens when her husband dies?
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
I already understand what you are saying when the husband dies, but are you saying the husband is ceremonial and ten commandments?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Luke 6:46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (Note the word DO) You imply that doing G-d's laws is secondary to the testimony of Jesus Christ when they are BOTH required. And in so doing, you ignore Luke and turn Jesus into an idol. Therefore you break the second Commandment. But most important you disobey G-d and so ALL G-d's Law of Love is broken. Keep G-d's Sabbath, obey G-d, obey Jesus and stop looking for ways to justify disobeying.
clarkewi 2 years ago
Notice what Paul says:
Romans
7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
How can Paul say this if Jesus fulfilled it?
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
What I mean to say is, How can Paul say this if Jesus fulfilled it in the sense that it was abrogated?
By the way, the Greek word "fulfill" [pleroo] means to "fill up", to "live up to fully", but it does not mean "to end", or "to complete" like the other Greek words for "fulfill" mean.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
Jesus lived up to the law and satisfied it fully for our sake, so that all who believe will be declared righteous in the eyes of God because of what he did.
All who believe in him are made dead to the law that condemns. And whoever is dead to the law is not bound by it any further. It can no longer condemn them.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
This is why when jesus was asked, what is the greatest commandment in the law, he quoted two from the Mosaic law, the book of the law of God, and didn't ask for clarification for the mens' sake.
The character of God never changes, but consider the fact he 'became' human when he wasn't human before. Now he has a glorified body that he never had before.
'Who' God is never changes, but that doesn't mean that the laws he gave can't change. He was the one that told us it would change.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Myhopeisinhim,
You've got to be kidding me. I hate to break it to you, but you're in your own little camp, all by yourself. Not even anyone else who doesn't believe we should't keep the Sabbath believes that the 2 commandments of Love were the Mosaic Laws. The Prophets were the voices God lifted up to repent, it was not speaking of Moses' laws. The 2 commandments are like your 10 fingers thang hang on your 2 hands. Very simple, very straightforward, even a child can understand.
Lysimachus78 2 years ago 2
The prophets are not the torah. The prophets were the second section of the hebrew bible I said..a few examples are:
The book of Joshua
The book of Jonah
The book of Samuel
The book of Kings
and more...There are about 19 books in total that make up this section...and only 5 which make up the Torah. This is what is referred to when the phrase "the law and the prophets" is used....you will notice in Luke 24 that he adds the Psalms, a book from the third section called the "writings".
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
This isn't fantasy, nor my own little concoction, this is exactly what the law and the prophets does mean.
Look up the prophets(nevi'im) and you'll see what I mean.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
The prophets and the torah all contained shadows of Jesus Christ, shadows that were meant to be fulfilled in a greater purpose in Jesus Christ.
Through Adam's disobedience all were made disobedient, Through Christ many will be made righteous through Christ's obedience
Jonas being in the belly of the whale was greater fulfilled in Christ when he was in the belly of the earth for three days
The story of abraham, Isaac and the ram shared how Jesus would take our place, greater fulfilled in him
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
All the sacrifices and rituals given in the law were to be greater fulfilled by Jesus Christ on the cross.
The story of Noah, and Moses, they all contained shadows of Jesus Christ. Not just the sacrifices, but the entire book of the law and the prophets.
Jesus was the one and only person to ever fulfill the entire law and prophets. He lived a spotless, sinless life and satisfied the standard of perfection God requires.
Through the cross, he satisfied the law on our behalf.
Myhopeisinhim 2 years ago
Myhopeisinhim,
You cannot connect the law of moses in Luke 24:44 with Luke 23:56. Even though they may have not understood anything, Luke would not have written 'according to the commandment", because even if they did not understand, and it was not an obligation, according to Luke, it could not be "according to the commandment". This was a perfect opportunity for Luke to write that the Sabbath was no longer necessary. But he did not. You can't take a chisel and destroy the largest of the 10
Lysimachus78 2 years ago
Those that follow Jesus follow his teachings. Do you agree? I'll assume that since you are a believer you will agree. So sin you agree with that statement that Christians should follow Christ, what part of turning from sin doesn't make sense? Adultery, stealing, murder, blasphemy, disrespecting parents is Sin. Do you agree? If you do agree these are all commandments of God. Since they are commandments so also the 7th Day Sabbath is made for mankind to rest from labor. It is not a "work" to rest.
rickydepths1 2 years ago 3
@Myhopeisinhim .....Not in any way is the Seventh day Sabbath a shadow of anything. It is a remembrance of creation and who the Creator is. The bible says: REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it Holy, Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the SEVENTH day IS the SABBATH of the LORD THY GOD....
juttakarin 1 year ago
No way bro.Malcee you cant deceive us with your false teaching no word found in the bible that sabbath is ended when Jesus died or the 4th commandments will be removed after crucifixion in fact after he died the disciple still keep the sabbath the 7th day and if you say again after resurrection then why the people still keep the 7th day until constantine came & change it who is constantine? is he more knowledgeable about bible than the disciples? or you only think just like constantine.
ephraim123628 3 years ago 4