Refilling a 1lb campstove propane bottle from a 20lb grill tank.

[MoralDelima]

I think in general it might just be easier to use a propane hose/adapter kit and run your camp stove off a 20lb bottle. Saves you time you would spend refilling and you don't have to worry about the little bottles wearing out. Thanks for the video.

[ssj4goko4]

@MoralDelima yes very much so and safer. but some stoves are only rated for the 1 pound bottles but most are able to accept the 20 pound bottle it should be in the manual if the stove is rated for 20 pounds as well as 1 pound or not.

[OffCamberTJ]

ive been filling tanks like this for several years at my weekend cabin. filled hundreds of them w/o issue. the only real precaution i take is swapping out the 1 pounders every season or so just to make myself feel better because i do refill them so much.

[fourhume]

the refilling process of adding propane by turning the 20lb tank upside down and then opening the valve to anything, is extremely dangerous...why?. The upside down position of the 20lb tank will pass propane in a liquid form. Propane in a liquid state converts into an enormous amount of vapor. Never, ever do this kind of refilling or otherwise inside of any building or structure. The fittings to do this sort of thing should not be available to anyone. It just isn't worth the associated risks.

[BiggsWorld]

@fourhume I disagree. If I were to follow your logic, gasoline is extremely dangerous and only qualified technicians should be allowed to fill my car or lawnmower.

I think it's an awesome tool.

Having said that, if you do it while smoking or wearing polyester clothes, then you'll probably get what you deserve. :-)

[fourhume]

@BiggsWorld .I'm not to sure which State it is but I recall travelling thru an eastern state which does not allow self serve at all.The gasoline tanks are under zero atmospheric pressure, LP is completely different .I have been a licensed gas and propane fitter/inspector for 30 years...if you're bravado keeps you from respecting the advice of an expert, I'm afraid that it's just going to be a matter of time before an awful accident occurs....please abstain from refilling bottles...

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume you what the liquid if you do not turn the tank all you get is vapor you don't fill it all. propane is always at the same pressure no matter ow big or small the bottle. in order to even make this even work you need to chill the tank you want to fill because if you don't the tank will not fill. even chilled the fill amount is only around 1/3 to 1/2 still well in the safe zone.

[fourhume]

@ssj4goko4 You're not qualified to state that anything about this practise is safe...Most of the video's available to view have been filmed inside a structure. It's proof enough that i'ts a risky process done by unqualified people. 

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume safe zone was not telling you to safe to do this safe zone is the amount of lp in the bottle after doing this aka not overfilling. and how do you know what certs i have oh you don't. i have seen some dumb moves with people doing this like chilling it twice to overfill them. people do this because lp is cheaper the more you get. but if you do not use alot of lp i would not bother with this method anyways.

[fourhume]

@ssj4goko4 OK I'll go for it...what certs do you have?? I would enjoy a much deeper technical discussion with anyone who is qualified to do so..this kind of dialogue is made possible because of you tube's existant...It provides an oppourtunity for one's professional due diligence to respond when a highly questional practise or procedure is presented....

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume me i have had certs in gas control being the job i had required it becous we worked with alot of it. trust me i agree and even stated the 1 pond bottles are not built for this method. do so at your own risk. do so outside or in a well vented area with no heat sources so if a leak does happen it can be vented safely. but for the most part bad things do not happen doing this if you handle it correctly.

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume trust me i have seen lp accidents and even a guy die. but normally the 1 pound bottles do not contain enough lp to have that happen. unless its in a very small non vented area lp is heavy and normally takes a good amount to fill a room enough to couse bad shit to happen.

[fourhume]

@ssj4goko4 my concern isn't towards the one pound bottle, the issue is the 20 lb tank. As you know, the volume of escaping propane vapor by volume is much smaller than the volume of vapor from propane leaking in a liquid state. If "everyone" who undertook this practise did so in the same manner and responded to a refill failure in the same manner the risk maybe contained. Well, .great info has gone back and forth...give respect and caution to the dynamics of propane.. injury is preventable

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume acully lp is a strange gas in that manor. the size of the bottle does not change its volume enough to matter. if i took a 1 pound bottle and a 20 pound bottle at the same temp the fill would fail you would get very little lp. this is why this trick works without overfilling the bottles if anything there under-filled even by lp standard. temp changes its pressure why you need to chill the bottle you wanna fill.

[fourhume]

@ssj4goko4 It's the state and weight differential of the fuel that determines flow. Is it possible to overfill the bottle. The answer is yes.. Is it possible for propane to leak due to improper filling practise? The answer is yes. Is there an approved procedure for refilling bottles? No. Here in Ontario the sale of any fitting that could be used for refilling purpose is banned. Why because "shit happened". 

[fourhume]

@fourhume Also..propane is not a strange gas to someone who has a propane license..It's because of the training and stringent code requirements that prepares the license holder to be always mindfull of proper handling procedures of the fuel. I have seen the tragic consequence's that ignorance or disregard of proper handling procedures occurs. I don't understand why people choose to take the risk. Well I think I'm done..you Sir can have the last word..please do what's right.

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume acully the ban is bought tank labeling etc.basically a tanked marked non refill cant be sold if its been refilled etc. some states also have stricter transport rules on refilled tanks. but there is no ban saying you cant do it.

[fourhume]

@ssj4goko4 The ban in Ontario is on the sale and use of any fitting or practise involving any attempt to refill bottles. It has nothing to do with labelling. In my professional career, I met quite a few American HVAC equipment manufacturers. I was always alarmed at the lack of Regulatory controls in the States. I see no wisdom from anyone who is willing to take a significant risk rather than spend $5 for a bottle of propane. This is my final goodby. Take care!

[ssj4goko4]

@fourhume the only reason they do not recommend this is because those little bottles do not have valves designed for refills and some people are just plain stupid when it comes to handling vapor gas. i have done this tons of times and i think i only had 1 bottle ever leak. but i say after 4 or 5 uses toss the bottle anyways there valves do ware out being they are meant for 1 time use.

[ttenni]

What do you figure your effective refill cost is per 1 lb bottle? Will the more modern 20 lb tanks with the overfill safety valve not shut off the gas flow off if turned upside down?

[fourhume]

@ttenni the safety valve is designed to open on an over pressure situation...but being mechanical it can open for others reasons....propane released from an upside down tank will be in a liquid form...danger!!!...a static electrical buildup and discharge can easily take place..I can't stress how dangerous this is....if you have any kind of cylinder that relieves propane, don't touch it..let it blow...of course you would never draw from or store a 20lb cylinder inside of a building or structure.

[BiggsWorld]

@ttenni I've done it with a couple of different tanks, never had a problem. Both with refills and with exchanged tanks. The last time I got my tank filled, I got a 20lb tank filled for $14. I figure I could get 14 one-lb cylinders from it, so about $1 a tank. Doing an exchange for $25 would make it about $2 a tank.

[BiggsWorld]

@ttenni If you used a LOT of tanks it might be worth it, but cost wasn't my motivator. When I bought this, I lived in the country in WV, and we had frequent power outages in winter, sometimes lasting for 3 or more days. When that happened, the only way I had to heat my house (or cook!) was to use a couple small propane stoves that used the 1lb canisters. It just wasn't practical to store 30 or 40 one-lb cylinders just in case we had a power outage. I kept 10 or so and refilled them.

[hombredepechosfirmes]

what will happen if i get a little 'squirt' of propane on my face?

[fourhume]

@hombredepechosfirmes ..the danger that exists from doing anything like refilling a bottle is the presence of static electricity. If you absolutely feel that it's something you must do, then do it outside away from any building or structure. I've seen some video's were guys were refilling the tanks inside their garage....I've been to fires caused by this type of thing.....guess what, no insurance company will cover you if it happens.

[1beinki]

why the freezing of small tanks prior to filling?

[BiggsWorld]

@1beinki You freeze the tank to make it colder than the larger (warmer) tank. Cooling the small tank makes the gas take up less volume and allows the transfer to work easier, faster and more complete.

[IamTeHe]

I have a question, because i airsoft i use propane as a cheaper alt. for green gas. I was wondering with my empty propane tank(Mini one) can i push down the needle and put alot of silicone oil in it then refill it? Thanks

[BiggsWorld]

@IamTeHe I am sorry, I don't know anything at all about airsoft guns. I use these for campstoves and for heating.

[fourhume]

@IamTeHe never in any circumstance do you touch any kind of a built in relief valve..

[BiggsWorld]

As far as I know, the shelf life is infinite. It isn't exposed to air (like gasoline) so as long as the seal is intact the gas stays inside and usable.

[mercado391]

Whats the shelf life on those little bottles of propane i have some. had it for a few years now im wondering if there safe to use.thanks for sharing your info.

[BruceBocz]

Hey there, on most of my bottles I only get a 1/2 fill on some i get complete 1# any ideas why, ther 1# ers are chilled the same length of time.

[BiggsWorld]

@BruceBocz

Hi, I don't know why some would only fill halfway. One of the things I did to ensure a good fill was to make sure the regular (20 lb) bottle was room temperature. It doesn't matter in summer, but when I was doing it in the winter, I left the tank inside overnight. Obviously be smart about that, and don't store it someplace where it would ignite. The temperature (= pressure) difference appears to be key. With a warm 20 lb tank, it overfilled each of my 1lb bottles.

[BiggsWorld]

I would certainly expect that it would work fine. I know I can use the skinny bottles on my other propane devices, so the reverse is probably true.

[couchebag]

Will this work to fill the slightly smaller skinny 14 oz propane bottles (bernzOmatic) The fitting are the same thread as the 1lb Coleman style but not sure about the valve mechanism? I only ask because I have a vintage catalytic heater that uses the skinny bottles.

[melodicspeed]

I think it is NOT appropiate to put the tank inside the frozer because when you refill it, it will support a certain amount of gas. BUT once the bottle is at normal temperature (warmer) the temperature of the gas inside the tank goes up, and so the presion. and so less securirty.

[coilsinamotor]

why do u have to frezz the smaller tank?

[BiggsWorld]

@coilsinamotor

You freeze the smaller tank to ensure it accepts as much gas as possible. Freezing the tank lowers the internal pressure of any residual gas that may be inside. With the larger tank warm, and smaller tank cold, you'll get maximum transfer of the liquid propane. (including a slight over-filling - see related video).

[coilsinamotor]

@BiggsWorld ooh that is so cool so this filling process is totally safe :)

[BiggsWorld]

@coilsinamotor

Sorry for the late reply, I just saw your comment! You freeze the smaller tank to create a pressure differential to ensure maximum gas flow. For the same weight of gas, warmer gas will have a higher temperature. Since you want the gas to flow from one container to the next, you make the source container room temperature and the destination cold. That way the gas flows from the higher pressure (room temp) to lower (cold can).

[coilsinamotor]

@BiggsWorld oooh i c lol that was a nice review for my scince exam tomm :P

[jchambers2586]

@coilsinamotor It keeps the liquid propane at liquid state . If it was at room temp it would turn the liquid back to a gas.

[fourhume]

@jchambers2586 No it doesn't....the pressure differential and the rate of liquid propane fill will maintain it's state....never open the valve on any size tank that is upside down. A static electrical charge can buildup...guess what happens when the discharge happens around a vapor....fire...when a discharge happens around liquid propane....a really big fire.

[BiggsWorld]

@fourhume The orientation of the tank has nothing to do with static buildup. In general a steel tank can't build a static charge because it's conductive. PVC or polyester clothing can, but the tank cannot. Incidentally liquid propane isn't flammable, it has to vaporize first into a gas. Ignition conditions for propane are generally best at 2.15% to 9.6% by volume.

[fourhume]

@BiggsWorld It's apparent that you are not a licensed natural gas/ LP fitter.I have been for 30 years...The fitting that you're using is not allowed here in Canada...If you were technically qualified, you would understand why. There isn't such a thing as generally best UEL or LEL .. if the UEL or LEL where able to be measured...you are in a non- ventilated structure...get out...don't do it...this is just plain dangerous.

[jeepmor]

BiggsWorld - Look up MAC brand, they make a cap.

[BiggsWorld]

@jeepmor

This is an awesome product. I found them on Amazon by searching "propane mac cap". A litte expensive, but a great addition for any tank you might store indoors.

[GrantLogan2]

this is too risky for my liking...i think ill stick with buying 3 for 4 dollars

[BiggsWorld]

@GrantLogan2

That's great when you can get out to the store and buy them. My primary use is for heating/cooking when our power is out. I have a 6500w generator, more than enough to run the lights and heat pump, but not the stove. Plus the campstoves put off a lot of heat to keep your room comfortable.

[NoMoWires]

Thanks for this review. I have seen this on sale at Harbor Freight a few times, about $17 was best price but they have so many different sale prices you never know what you can get. And there is always the 20% off one item coupon thats floating around Google or go to Slickdeals DOT net .,

Anyway, like allot of Harbor Freight "deals" was leary. Glad to see it demonstrated and someone feels that it is a valid solution.

[BiggsWorld]

@NoMoWires

You are welcome. I was impressed so decided to post the review. I've been pretty happy with the device. Like you, HF can be a mixed bag. However my 6500w generator has been a gem so far, and at a great price.

[mstakenagain]

The last 3 Coleman camping tanks I've used have leaked (while on the trip) because we usually take them on and off the stove several times. Do you know of a fitting that we can use to keep the leak contained so that it doesn't permeate all the food utensils in the tub where we store it? Also we were driving quite a distance when I noticed the smell, which could probably be dangerous. I would like to be able to continue to use the tank for other parts of the trip, too. A plumbing fitting?

[BiggsWorld]

@mstakenagain I'm not aware of any fitting, but you might be able to find some type of metal cap in the plumbing section of your hardware store. Having said that, I would suggest this is a dangerous situation, and you should inspect your stove to ensure it's not damaging your tanks and throw them away if they leak. I can assure you it is quite dangerous, propane gas is very explosive. search "propane tank explosion" on youtube for an idea of how bad it can get.

[MrKgren]

@mstakenagain i've found with the coleman or other brands they do this to stop it if you look inside there is a valve just like a tire valve stem has just push it in & release quickly with a non metal object a little lpg will spurt out but it usually seals better if you do it quickly compared to slowly unscrewing it from your stove. test with a drop of alcohol right in that little valve look for bubbles. don't use water all the stuff in there rusts. Hope this helps

[BiggsWorld]

@MrKgren

Great idea to use alcohol for testing for leaks. I also like the idea of the propane mac caps. See my comment above on that one.

[coolclay1]

I believe that your bottle will only fill half full this way as the liquid will not fill above the valve

[BiggsWorld]

@coolclay1 - It certainly fills more than half way. If you look at my related videos, you'll see that it slightly overfills the tank. If you shake the refilled tank and compare it to a new one, there is much less "airspace" than standard.

[2066241]

@BiggsWorld Your only supposed to fil them %80 to allow for expansion..Im not positive propane expands But it is just what i heard

[BiggsWorld]

@2066241

Propane does expand, that's how it's able turn into a gas for combustion. The problem is I don't have any way to know when the tank is 80% full. I just fill it up, and carefully burn off the excess.

[UBERKron]

i pull a vacuum using my car engine. chilling can very rarely introduce water.

[VQ1whales]

Tip.1..Leak check your refilled bottles with some soap and water...If your1#er is leaking? Use a small pin or screw driver to reset the the valve seat, tap it, & recheck

Tip..2..Just after your bottle is filled, always flip the 20# right side up then shut the 20# valve off..

Reason for this is that some tanks have welding slag in then from the machine welding and could damage valve seat when shutting it off...In this case you'll have to re- hook the 1#er back up to prevent tank from leaking M-T.

[hamlet2800]

Thanks, I always wondered if there was a way to re-use, recycle the old propane bottles.

[ishotwapiti]

have you ever considered expansion? have you noticed the relief value located at the top of the tank? that sure would be fun(in a bad way i mean fun) if that were to open up anywhere. and it wont close untill its lowers the pressure or mabey it fails to close.

[BiggsWorld]

@ishotwapiti

Yep, that's why i did it outside... so if it went bad, I could toss it into the yard to vent harmlessly. Wouldn't want to have that happen in the living room.