EVER HEARD OF 'chinese whispers' So imagine a story told by a peasant 2,000 years ago to a friend, and then pass that down for another 200 years when this 'Book' of stories was put together. Yes there is a chance that the VIRGIN was an unmaried woman...which meant stoning to death....so there we have one of loads of stories. DO YOU BELIEVE your local papers? EXACTLY..SAY NO MORE.
@MacamVideos bibles are for kids ... and its not real....
BIBLE IS AN NOOB copy... they change chapter.. they make it not real... u will see... bible is fake.. quran they never chng it words even for billion years
@GMX1Pred4t0r Yeah,i also sometimes thought of that..that believe that the bible was written billion of years ago...and even though their is no more even one original copy of it,written by number of people..is i think its real..because the places,cities in their were existing,like the jerusalem etc..i think people who wrote this would not waste their time writtng this much words and books..
@GMX1Pred4t0r wow you take god knows how long to come up with this reply, truly sad.....lets say both are fake the bible and the quran, which one preaches love and tolerance ????may god help u
It's irrelevent where Moses is supposed to have crossed the Red Sea.
The Israelites were never in Egypt in the first place, but were actually a small Canaanite tribe, who never left Canaan, which was then a province of the Egyptian empire at the time. Therefore, there was no Exodus, so there was no Crossing of the Red Sea. The whole thing is just a myth.
Galileegirl, I'm nobody special but before you are so quick to judge this research you may wish to see the discovery by Steven DeNoon scholars all over the world rabbinical and Christian are supporting his discovery that has final explained the Biblical Narative. As he writes about Ron Wyatt DeNoons research supports Mr Wyatts and so Mr Wyatts work gives validity to DeNoon. Hold your peace be patient, God was hiding a mystery and at last He is revealing it.
@BenDeNoon Check out "Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud" at Tentmaker website. There are several links at the bottom of the page proving that Ron is a total and complete fraud. Where is the sample of Jesus' blood now? In what museum has this Ark of the Covenant been resorted and preserved? All of Wyatt's evidence seems to mysteriously disappear.
There will always be skeptics but for the sake of those like myself that want to support Ron's incredible work leave it open. I would love to know who has the videos of Ron could you be so kind to respond we wish to ask permission for the use.
The problem with people is that they think you have to have deep water for the Exodus, you don't. even 20 ft of water would have been a problem for Israel to cross over with Pharoah's army chasing them. The other problem is that people today look at the land and think it was like this back in Moses' time, it wasn't. The entire landscape of the sea was different, in fact it almost extended up to the Med Sea, they called it the Reed Sea back then, need to study more and study the Bible account!
Exodus 14 speaks about the crossing of the Red Sea, then it says, after they crossed the Red Sea, they entered into the Wilderness of Shur, This wilderness of Shur is in the North, east of Succoth between Egypt and the land of the Philistines. Exodus 15 vs 22 says, Moses bought Israel from the Red Sea and they went into the Wilderness of Shur, and they went 3 days without water, The bitter waters of Marah.. and notice, this was AFTER they crossed the red sea from Egypt, guess u missed it eh!
Galatians 4:24 says, This is an allegory for these are the 2 covenants, One is to Jerusalem and one is to Saudi, what the scripture is saying is that the 2 women, represent Freedom and Bondage, Sarah is Jerusalem and she represents Freedom, Hagar is Saudi, and represents Bondage. The Name of Mt Sinai is in the Hebrew and identified by that Name, Mt Horeb is in the Sinai not in Saudi Arabia, dont confuse an allegory with Geography....
Galatians 4 is not about the Geographical place of the Mountain. It is about the 2 women, and what they represent in the scriptures. Hagar was Egyptian, and she was the mother of Ishmael, the first born of Abraham, If you study hagar, you will see that her heritage by her son, takes her to Saudi Arabia. This is why the Biblical narrative connects her to Saudi, and the Hebrew woman Sarah to Jerusalem. Sarah is Hebrew, Galatians 4 is an allegory only. Study it again.
It was mention in Part 3 of Moses throwing the Tablet of the Ten Commandments on the base of the altar of the golden calf. How much would it be worth to see God's own writing? I think they may have taken the pieces of tablets because their hatred can be that great. They want to deny the Jews were ever there. If the Tablets were found, I am afraid you may have to send $19.95 to to see it or worse get a piece of it
WHITE YOU DO REALIZE THIS ALL IN AFRICA...NOT ENGLAND OR IRELAND FRANCE NOR GERMANY...BUT AFRICA...OPEN YOU BIBLES AND SEE THE LAND OF CUSH WHICH IS MORDEN DAY SUDAN
I love this world we live in, vast landscapes, hidden treasures, this world is full of adventure, too bad we live in a confined town or city fulled with noisy people and stereotypes that only care about sex fame and money....and we go to work every single day to make a living, where we sit and watch spoon fed rubbish on our televisions... why does this life seem meaningless? i just want to be free to see the world for my self, but to do that, you need money...? why god why?
whatever u want to think monkey is all right by me, if u dont see a difference between the thoughts of a monkey and the thoughts of a human being then this discussion ends here since u are incapable of seeing things from a different more logical perspective. u think im ignorant i have no prob with that i dont need to prove anything to you :) & since u dont have the mind capacity to think for yourself i dont blame you. peace be to you and your own delusions
@ash0806: no individual thinks the same as an other. We're all different, and we all think differently. Also note that humans are still monkeys, regardless of your mental retardation. "you think I'm ignorant", no, I KNOW you're ignorant...you've already proven this. "you don't have the mind capacity to think for yourself", says whom? You? Who can't even type correctly in his own language?
Get an education, grow up, get a degree and conform to reality. Then we can talk with ease.
@PJDesseyn the reason u call yourself a monkey is because u you are a monkey! im not thats the difference between u and me. im not english im dutch :) my own language along with 5 other languages :) i study at a university as i mentioned before i study science/chemistry and the evolution theory is nothing more than a THEORYYwhich has never been proven, so like i said keep on living ur delusional life! ur in such a sad state, and will never win this discussion!! thats proven
@ash0806: "you call yourself a monkey, because you are a monkey"...indeed. I also call a cat a cat, a dog a dog, a horse a horse, etc. So why not call a monkey a monkey? "I'm Dutch"...then why didn't you say so? Lets talk Dutch instead. Ja, ik ken ook een paar talen. "ik studeer aan een universiteit...de evolutietheorie is niets meer dan een THEORIE" -> dit bewijst dat je liegt. Als je echt aan een universiteit studeerde, wist je wat "theorie" eigenlijk betekend in de wetenschap...(cont)
@ash0806: "evolutie is nooit bewezen", het wordt elke dag bewezen. Echter, je negeert het overweldigend bewijs, vanwege je strikt-religieuze indoctrinatie. "je zal nooit deze discussie winnen!"...ik heb ze al gewonnen. Als je ECHT wetenschap studeerde (wat je overduidelijk niet doet), dan zou je inzien dat ik gelijk heb.
Trouwens, leuk weetje: het was Carolus Linnaeus, een creationist, die de mens correct classificeerde als aap.
Ik volg enkel de realiteit. Stop met in sprookjes te geloven.
Thanking the Lord for preserving these sites...and for Ron, his sons, Mary Nell, Jonathan Gray, Richard & Elizabeth Rives and all of the helpers I don't know....who assisted Ron and put up these videos for us to share far and wide! Bless you all.
If you belive this, I'll show you the TV studio where they simulated the 1969 "moon landing." This has nothing to do with the Bible or Moses. "Yeah, see it's all here in this coral." "Here you see a chariot wheel, certain evidence.... oops, we couldn't bring it up. I have a couple more at my house if you don't believe me. Can I have money now? My sons need new shoes"
if human are from the monkey...y still got monkey left? did they cannot be like us??? y?? can u tell me?? darwin are rubish...theres no logic monkey can be human...y bear cant be like human 2? y we must take monkey as our grand grand father? stupid??? yes u are..
@21pencil okay one thing, learn to type please! also the reason he believes we came from monkies and not from bears as you asked, is since Monkeys have move able thumbs and they have very similar characteristics as us. I do not believe we came from monkeys but were born human by God.
I can't believe that people are still believing this rubbish from Ron Wyatt.
Even creationist organisations, who will believe almost anything, have actually put up websites warning their supporters about Ron Wyatt and his claims.
Even emminent people who were involved with Wyatt at the time have now distanced themselves from him, but his foundation are still claiming them as verification.
Scientist went to God giggling with arrogance and said, "I can create life." God said, "OK, show me." The scientist reached down and picked up some dirt in his hand. God said, "No. Get your own dirt."
Wow... The facts are here and people still refuse to believe.... Yet they believe that something came from nothing (big bang) and the humans came from monkeys... I see why guys have a hard time believing. Science actually proves that the story of Exodus is true... So does history . But if you wanna be ignorant be my guest . Just know that Jesus loves you all.
@Eian117: I agree with: "the facts are here and people still refuse to believe". Unfortunately, you're one of those people...something coming from nothing is what the bible says, not the Big Bang Theory. Energy is eternal and cannot be created nor destroyed. It existed when our current universe began. "humans came from monkeys", first learn what Evolution actually claims, then realise we still ARE monkeys. We're also human, primates, apes, mammals, vertebrates, etc. (cont)
@PJDesseyn thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard in my lifetime, the fact u see a difference between a rat and a mole and a monkey and u cant see a difference between a human being and a monkey leaves me to think ur logical thinking hasbeen obstructed by your own ignorance. i have nothing to say here and u if u are a monkey u shouldnt be able to participate in this conversation cuz ur opinion to me is useless as you regard urself as an animal which cannot think for himself :)
@ash0806: The reason why you think I'm ignorant, is because, ironically, YOU'RE ignorant...all humans are monkeys, but not all monkeys are humans. Humans are primates, apes, monkeys, mammals, vertebrates, tetrapods, bipedals, eukaryotes, etc. You simply deny science, because science proves your fairy tale beliefs to be false...it's a common crime.
Humans are animals and monkeys can think for themselves...maybe you should stop reading the bible, and start looking at reality for a change, retard.
@ash0806: I used to be a Christian, and I've read the bible. In fact, it's the bible which made me an atheist. Sure, there are SOME true parts in the bible, but the overwhelming majority of it is fiction. No more real than the Greek myths and various other fairy tales.
Maybe you should read more than 1 book, before concluding the bible is the most reliable one on Earth.
I can say with absolute certainty, that it's filled with mistakes, falsehoods, fairy tales and contradictions.
@PJDesseyn the bible didnt make u an atheist, but ur lack of faith did. ive read lots of books, maybe u should think before u open ur mouth to say that ive only read one book? that goes to show that there is no point in discussing anything with you, since u read my comments only to critisize them, just like u read the bible to only find wrongs? haha do u expect any growth from that? grow up i do not play these childish games, even though i may be much younger than you. have a nice day
@ash0806: faith is for the gullible. I rely on facts, and the facts prove the bible's full of shit. I only became an atheist after reading the bible, so the bible DID make me an atheist. On books, let me rephrase it: you should read pro-reality books, not other fairy tales and creationist propaganda. If you had read pro-reality books, and understood them, you wouldn't claim the bible is the most reliable book there is. The bible is filled with fallacies. (cont)
@ash0806: "you read the bible to only find wrongs", no, I didn't. I originally read it to make me more knowledgeable about what the bible says...however, since it's filled with so many wrongs, it made me an atheist. I didn't write the bible, so don't blame me for all the wrongs in it. "grow up", let me give you a bible verse: "do not point out the splinter that is in thine brother's eye, but point out the beam that is in thine own eye". Maybe you should read it too and become an atheist as well.
@PJDesseyn ur so stupid i already said i read the bible are u blind? cant u read?? or are u a ten year old wanting to win a discussion for the first time? ur a waste of time but because i care ill spend some time trying to explain some things to you- first of all i certainly dont consider you to be the brother which jesus was referring to in that passage :) so good day and i will NEVER EVER become an atheist peace be to you and ur delusions
@ash0806: You CLAIM to have read the bible, but you also claimed it's the most reliable book there is. So either you're lying about having read the bible, or you're lying about it being the most reliable book, because the bible is VERY unreliable. "I will never become an atheist"...why do you limit yourself to archaic mythology, while you have the entire world of knowledge open to you? I say: get a good education. If you do so, chances are high you'll become an atheist anyway.
how did the bible make u an atheist? u are the reason for your own misconceptions dont try to blame it on everybody and everything else, thats what i mean with grow up. YOU choose to do whatever u like, NOTHING not even the bible MAKES u do anything, stop blaming and accept responsibility for choosing a certain theory that fits you best, we all know that, but apparently u dont.
@ash0806: Well, I decided to read the bible objectively (without bias), to learn more about what I (used to) believe. Reading it, made me realise how much of it is just plainly wrong. Atrocities, amoral behaviour, mistakes, foolishness, contradictions, downright fairy tales, etc. I simply could no longer believe. Thus, reading the bible without bias, made me an atheist. "misconceptions": I simply read what it says, not what I wanted it to say. Try reading what it actually says. (cont)
@ash0806: I didn't write the bible, I merely read it. So don't blame me for what it says. And what theory? I read the bible, I realised it's bullshit, so I no longer believe in God...That's not a theory, that's a religious stance. The lack of belief in gods = atheism. I lack the belief in gods, hence I'm an atheist. This isn't a theory in any way.
@Eian117: (cont) science and history (history actually IS science) prove exodus DIDN'T happen, as I've proven to your ignorant friend Marty. "if you want to be ignorant"...how is knowing the scientific facts and presenting them to you guys, ignorant?
"Just know that Jesus loves you all", a non-existing person loves me? whoopty fucking doo.
@PJDesseyn : hahahahaha your funny my guy... God made science, science can't prove that the miracles of God couldn't have happened... And if history is science then it proves that the Bible is right. That God is king of the universe and that Jesus is alive and the savior of man kind...But go ahead trust in "science" and I'll trust in the King of Kings. Much love bruh bruh!
*Israeli product deflects cell phone radiateion from body and reduces electromagnetic exposure by 98 percent
*only 2 countries increased the area covered by forest and agriculture-US,Israel
*Israeli Emergency Bandage is used by US soldiers preventing them from bleeding out in battle
*Team of Physicists UK Canada US Brazil Israel claimed a breakthrough in solving one of the biggest riddles of physics:What happened to all the antimatter that has vanished since the Big Bang
all praises to the one god.there is no other god but only one truely god who created all universal the heaven and hell.who is always watching his slave.knowing everything even it 's hidding deepest place.he promised he always be there when his kids call ...so..let us prayed and praises him..what ever u r ,a jew.chirstian, or muslim.
It amazes me that people choose to disbelieve solid, physical evidence that supports the bible's account of miraculous events. But, disbelief has a future home in a lake of fire. (Oh, I forgot, that's a fable too.) Time will tell.
@christsminstrel Because the evidential standard of people like Wyatt is so low as to be tripped over. In fact after Wyatt publishes a thing like this secular archeoloigsts (real ones because Wyatt is not an archeologist) come through after him & continual correct his finds (which so far have all been completely bogus).
@matthewlane yeah you're right. ron wyatt wasnt an archeologist when he found this landbridge, he was an atheist explorer that loved traveling the world with his sons. funny how things turned out. now after over several years of legitimate archeological schooling, practice, and teaching, Ron Wyattt is a world renoun archeologist. and to your comment on his findings being "bogus" i'm a logical thinker and i think that sinai and the crossing sight were his only legit findings. the ark...plausible?
@Japheth19 Hahaha Ron Wyatt was never an atheist, he was an anaesthetist. LOL
"legitimate archeological schooling." At no point did Wyatt ever recieve a BA in archaeology, the minimum needed to even get onto an archeological dig (even though he at times claimed that he did, no university has him on there records).
At best Ron Wyattt is a world renown Pseudoarchaeologist, who wouldn't know archeology if he had tripped over it.
@matthewlane yes he was an atheist. it was the whole noahs ark deal that made him change his mind. and he did schooling in the middle east. i have no clue where but then again i only know the names of a handfull of colleges in my area
@Japheth19 I dont know where you got your information, but Ron Wyatt was never an atheist & he never studied archeology & he most certainly did not get a BA. You've been mislead by propoganda, but thats not at all surprising. Most people who believe in Ron Wyatt by neccisity have a evidential standard as low as Wyatts own (otherwise you wouldn't believe in his findings). This is what comes of needing to believe the foundation of ones life is not built on a self perpetuating falsehood.
My opinion is any action never happen without a reason. I say u majority of Bible scenarios are true.The problem is Bible also genarate through human hand. If you love someone you always tend to tell about him/her to others with adding more decorations. Bible written with adding decorations & give a perception of the power of GOD. My conclusion is Bible almost with real things with more decarations. Actually we can find solutions for some unsolved problems seen the Bible.
"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom." - Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, Tel Aviv University
Hhhhmmm I seem to see a lot of irrelevant comments going on... But for anyone that is actually watching the video and finds this interesting visit my channel for more videos like this with more footage
Our life on earth is just one speck of sand in all the beaches of time so far but, nothing compared to eternity. I do not know how God will judge these that died before Christ but I do know this, He will be very harsh on those who lied and misled these people to practice worshiping idols and doing things against God's will. Satan made a choice along with a third of the angles and will pay the price in the end. Will you join him?
@pbodymathis: would I disagree with an infinitely evil tyrant guilty of mass murder, slavery, rape, human and animal sacrifices, lying, deceiving, causing plagues and diseases, etc. and who punishes everyone he doesn't like with the worst torture of all, continuously, for all eternity? Yes, I would.
I have good news for you though: HE DOESN'T EXIST! No need to fear his infinitely evil wrath, for he doesn't exist. Now we can all be good, civilised people without fearing the monster named "God".
The problem is that Moses never crossed the Red Sea, but the Sea of Reeds. The latter becomes dry from time to time, when the tide goes out and the Sun evaporates the water left.
So if you see any claims of having found proof in the Red Sea, you already know it's false. It's the Sea of Reeds you need to look for. Also note that the Red Sea was a popular trading route between Egypt, Nabataeans, and even Indians, hence the sunken ships and chariot wheels.
@PJDesseyn So many think God is limited. The creator of everything that is good and seen. I do not know where Moses crossed, but you are only breathing because God said so. Anyone can believe a lie, that includes you. People can twist things into whatever they like. Darwin was wrong and so are you. Keep believing a myth- that God does not exist- and you will face His wrath if you believe it or not.
@anointedsword: I don't think God is limited...I think God is non-existing. So far, billions of believers over the course of millennia, have failed to present even a single piece of evidence for the existence of any god...I simply conclude the most obvious: gods don't exist. "I don't know where Moses crossed": according to the original manuscripts, the Sea of Reeds. And sure, I can be wrong...but Evolution remains a fact, just like Gravity. And I don't fear the wrath of the non-existing beings.
@PJDesseyn god doesnt want to tell that he is real. if he wanted to prove he was real. he would make the seas come to gether (sorry for bad spelling) and hit us or make the contiens (again sorry) form back to the one big contient (AGAIN). im not a priest nor a pope or munk but i just want to say. i have athesist freinds and they dont care about if he is real or not.
@rougeninja99: so God wants us to worship him, and would send us to Hell if we don't do as he says, but he refuses to even prove he exists? Sorry, but that's condition #1 for me. If you want me to listen to you, you must first actually exist, as I can't listen to non-existing beings. "he would make the seas come together and make 1 big continent" -> nature can do that and HAS done that all on its own...no god needed.
@PJDesseyn im not saying that we would go to hell. if we did not worship him. soo ur saying that the freaking egyptian gods were real. just wait and u will find out the truth
@rougeninja99: every god is equally real as the other. Ra, Vishnu, Zeus, Thor, Izanagi, Quetzalcoatl, Yahweh, they're all man-made.
Btw, I don't fall for your scare tactics. Granted, if that infinitely evil monster were real, I'd be scared shitless and abandon all notion of morality to do as he says. It'd do everything for him if he's real, no matter how evil. Fortunately, he doesn't exist, so I can be a good and moral person without fear of eternal torture for doing something he doesn't like.
"I can be a good and moral person without fear of eternal torture for doing something he doesn't like."
Same here. Whether there's a hell or not, I believe in doing good for the sake of good. There's nothing that says that you can't do good. The problem is figuring out what "good" actually is. As someone once said, "A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. "
@Snowmon89: Basically follow the golden rule: don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you. Following your nation's and international laws is also strongly advised.
Certainly don't follow the bible, because it's filled with bad things. But then, Yahweh was a polytheistic wargod, so it's rather logical to have cruelty coming from his part.
My daughter Melissa was given 1 hr to live at Columbia Presbyterian Hosp Bx NY. Both her lungs were destroyed her lungs couldn't stop bleeding. Drs said that not even a lung transplant would save her. I remember how in the supernatural God used Moses to part the red sea.So I prayed God in the supernatural power you gave Moses I ask you to close my daughter's lungs like you did to the red sea.. Drs call it miraculous. I say because I dared to believe I received
Moses did not hold the water with his cane , that is not physically possible , probably the tide in this area made it look like something out of the ordinary especially there were no Suez canal at the time. After all , the mericale is on following the laws of Physics not on breaking them.
It says in the bible this is wat happened, now this is Proof, anyone who doesnt believe in the bible Cannot say its fake after this, this is EVIDENCE!
@crackin113: except for the fact that it ISN'T evidence in the slightest. According to the original biblical manuscripts, Moses crossed the Sea of Reeds, not Red Sea. Also, the Red Sea has long been an important trade route for Egypt with the (far) east. To find chariots on the bottom is very normal, and has nothing to do with Moses, but everything with trade. To use your screwed up reasoning, I could say this: "I have fossils in my floor, ergo I made all life." your reasoning makes no sense.
@PJDesseyn This is just one of many historical sites that are documented in the bible that are being discovered. You do not believe because you are blind to the truth, that only God reveals to His believers. In your words it shows your hatred towards God's people, as predicted throughout the Bible! Jesus said that the world will hate you not for who you are but, for your belief in Me. Your stance shows that even though you do not believe in satan, you are one of his followers.
@pbodymathis: the problem is: the bible doesn't document that site. It documents the Sea of Reeds, NOT the Red Sea. (it's a known translation error) I don't believe, because there's no evidence for it. I only accept reality/the truth, and God isn't part of it. "your hatred towards God's people" -> I don't hate Christians in general, nor Jesus specifically. I hate all the evil committed by Christians and Christianity.
And note that Satan is the good guy in the bible. Try reading it for a change.
@PJDesseyn I think there is enough information there to indicate that there was no other possible site. However, one site does not make Christianity true and in fact, you can rationalize every fact about it false if you want to. Satan was never indicated to be a good guy in my bibles nor was he ever mentioned as one. Only the great deceiver. He uses many tools and all kinds of people to fall for his lies. I have fallen for them many of times. Only through Gods wisdom, can I see the truth
@pbodymathis: The Sea of Reeds exists, and the bible says he crossed there and NOT the Red Sea. Also, there's no evidence at all of Moses having ever crossed the Red Sea. Ruins on either side of the Red Sea? Chariots on the bottom? Sounds very normal, considering it has been used as a trade-route for a very long time. (and even still) Also, I don't claim this one event proves Christianity true or false, I say there's a far more logical explanation than what the bible says.
@pbodymathis: have you ever read any bible? Have you read how God murdered millions and how Satan is, at most, responsible for maybe 10 people's deaths? And how God caused plagues and how Satan revolted against God's oppression? How God hardened the Pharaoh's heart, so that he could kill and harm his people? Read the bible, it's in there.
Satan is NAMED as the bad guy, but if you read the actions, he's really the good guy in the story. Also note it's written by God's people, not Satan's. BIAS!
@PJDesseyn That doesn't make since to me. Haven't you read the story of Job? I'm quite sure that the devil was responsible for those deaths as well. Not to mention, if he was the serpent, then one could also blame him for all the suffering, even though it was man's free choice in the end. Plus the whole "killing equals murder and therefore evil" thing is kind of farfetched when I think about it. We kill animals to eat, so wouldn't that make us evil too? Truly, "good" is not so easily defined.
@Snowmon89: It's been a while since I've read it, but I do remember that he made a wager with God and God gave him permission to do those bad things, like killing people, causing diseases, etc. (in that situation) So while the devil may have killed some people, it was with God's permission. He had a "license to kill" sort of speak. According to the original manuscripts, the serpent in Eden wasn't Satan. That claim was added later. Also, Adam and Eve were completely ignorant, so no real choice.
Forgive me, I disagree on the "completely ignorant" part. Here's why: didn't God also tell them, "Stay away or else(dot dot dot)" Regardless of the "or else" part I think that a "good" person should stay away, if not for just the simple respect of one another as equals. Plus even before they did it, they did mention that they were told not to do it, so that's kind of like a man being told don't touch, but then their "friend" says "let's touch it".
@Snowmon89: the forbidden fruit was "the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil". This means that, before they ate it, they didn't know of good and evil. Hence "completely ignorant". While God may have told them not to eat it, the snake (not Satan) told them it was okay. Not being aware of deception and not knowing good nor evil, they saw no harm in eating the fruit. It's like talking to very little children. They can easily be tricked as well. (so don't do it)
Knowledge of a crime doesn't mean that they're innocent of the crime. Kleptomaniacs are a great example of this. The same can apply to other cases as well. How about when a child steals food? Should the mother not have to pay for the food that her child had stolen? Personally, My mother doesn't think so. Back when I was in diapers I took some candy and ate it. When the adults found out the cashier told her that it was alright, but my mother paid for the candy anyway saying, that it was not.
@Snowmon89: they didn't know it was a crime, THAT's the problem. Again: they didn't know right from wrong. Besides, God should've put a fence around it or something.
If your child, who doesn't know right from wrong yet, does something wrong, then you as a parent must take responsibility. So in the Eden-case, God was responsible yet again, on several levels. And infinitely cruel as well, as he didn't get punished, but mankind got punished for eternity...
They didn't know it was a crime? They weren't exactly mindless children you know. They knew that they shouldn't touch. Whether they understood it was a crime or not. They do, however, understand Action and Reaction. Even my mother knows that when you tell a child not to touch, that they will eventually learn not to do so or else you'd have to discipline them. One warning should be more than enough for people that you seem to think have no knowledge.
@Snowmon89: indeed, they didn't know it was a crime. They may not have been mindless children, but very close to it. And eventhough God told them not to eat it, they didn't know the severity of it. Again, they didn't know right from wrong until AFTER they ate the fruit. And children often learn AFTER they did something bad, although not always. And while discipline is good, being infinitely cruel and evil is not.
And they did have no knowledge of good and evil. Isn't that obvious?
Plus, considering that God set the rules and that Jesus died. I'd have to say that He did take responsibility and that He still does. Now, what about our crimes? Even if God is evil, does that excuse man for our own crimes as well? One philosopher asked the philosophical question, "Do the Gods do it because it's right, or is it right because the God's do it?"
@Snowmon89: indeed, Jesus died...God got his own son killed...not quite the example I'd follow! And no, our own crimes should be punished, but punished FAIRLY. And clearly God isn't up to the task. The gods are just characters of people. Gods of war are our aggressive side, gods of fertility our "industrious" side, etc. or they portray nature. The gods do things, because it's their nature. For example: the mass murders was when Yahweh was worshipped as a wargod, like Ares or Mars.
@PJDesseyn You do realize that Jesus, (even though he did claim to be the son of God) was also God incarnate? So he did pay for whatever crimes you seem to think that he committed. I'm still unsure if he did commit any crimes really, but I'd rather not get into that discussion right now. It's way late into the night. I need some sleep.
@Snowmon89: That's one of those issues...people say Jesus = God, but as he hung on the cross, why did Jesus yell "Father, why have you forsaken me?"? If Jesus was God, then surely such a plea would be absurd, as he'd be asking himself why he had forsaken himself...absurd. Hence why Jesus and God cannot be the same entities. Also, Jesus stayed 3 days in hell, versus all of eternity for us humans, who do far, far, FAR less evil than him...so no, he didn't pay.
@PJDesseyn Some people believe that Jesus was quoting scripture as his dying breath.
As for forsaking yourself, it certainly is possible.
Yeah, but do you only do one thing wrong? Jesus was apparently pure of sin. Not to mention that he claims to have died for everyone else's sins so that we wont have to go to Hell. Again, it's late here. This is a whole nother discussion entirely. Let's determine what's good or not, first, please and thank you.
@Snowmon89: "Jesus was apparently pure of sin", that's not what the bible says...remember the temple-market? He did some sinning right there! Not to mention the 20-30 years of his life which just happened to be unmentioned. It's like claiming Mary had a child as a virgin, rather than having had sex out of wedlock. And the bible doesn't say Jesus died for our sins, it says he died for the sins of our fathers, meaning we're no longer responsible for what our ancestors did wrong. and yet still are
@PJDesseyn "For who so ever believes in me will not perish but have eternal life."- Jesus just said it.
"For that while we were still sinners, God sent his only begotten son, so that we would not perish, but have eternal life." - there it said it again. Plus, when Jesus was on the cross, he said "It is finished" but the exact translation means "From now and on". Sounds like he died for our sins too. But if you still think that he died only for "our fathers". Sorry.
Just to clarify when I said, "but the exact translation means"
By this, I do not mean that the translation is wrong, but the "tense" of the words Jesus used doesn't exist in the English language. If you study latin then you might see what I mean here.
@Snowmon89: what you've just shown, is not that he died for our sins, but that there will be an eternal afterlife for everyone...Hell is also an eternal afterlife...and "perish" refers to what we atheists consider as death: put in the ground and that's it. And I said "for the sins of our fathers" which refers to the law which states that the guilt of your sins can be passed on to your children and future generations. (OT)
Either way, Jesus didn't abolish our sins in any way.
I'm going to hop of to bed now, so if you want to continue this conversation, can we continue it in PMs? This is kind of fun and surprisingly pleasant for me. And if not then, good bye. Thank you for the talk.
Plus shouldn't we consider what Adam and Eve did After they ate the fruit? From what I recall, Adam blamed God for giving him Eve, who "Tricked him" to eat the fruit. Then Eve blamed the serpent for her bad choice. Right there are two more apparent sins. I'm just clarifying here. Even if Adam and Eve were purely innocent before they ate the fruit, now they had the knowledge of good and evil, but they chose to do the evil thing instead. Then God, Instead of killing them, banishes them.
@Snowmon89: those aren't sins, but truths. Eve told Adam to eat it and the Serpent told Eve to eat it, all while both were ignorant of right and wrong. Only afterwards did they realise they were tricked, so they didn't sin, they were tricked. And yes, instead of giving them the very unjust punishment of a quick death, he instead let them suffer for almost 1000 years before allowing them to finally die...
@PJDesseyn But that wasn't the whole truth. Adam and Eve were responsible for their own choices, but now that they knew it, why didn't they say so? It doesn't really matter or not if they were tricked into anything. They were told Not to do something, but they clearly did it anyway. Today, I'm still apologizing for the ignorance of my youth. Suffer for a thousand years? Now you may be right, instead of living in a paradise they now lived in well earth, raising hundreds of kids.
@Snowmon89: how can they be held responsible for their choices, if they were oblivious to it? Again, they didn't know the very notion of right and wrong and were tricked. It's like a very young child: you can easily trick it and it's not the child's fault to get tricked, as it's incapable of understanding the concept yet. So Adam and Eve are not to blame. They were tricked and God should've done something to prevent it. And God was evil to make them suffer for his own mistakes.
@PJDesseyn(how can they be held responsible) Okay, then let's look @ a different situation. Let's say that a Janitor found a leak in a tank of a non-explosive gas. He figured it was nothing so he left it alone. The next morning it was found that the Gas gone through the ventilation and killed the entire infant ward. Should he not be responsible for his mistake? What about drunks? Should they be held responsible for what they urinate on while intoxicated?
@Snowmon89: your examples are completely different than the issue at hand. In the janitor's case, since he found the leak, it was his job (and he would be fully aware of this) to close the leak, even if it were harmless. And drunks should be held responsible for their drunkenness, hence why you're not allowed to drive while being drunk. The difference is, that Adam and Eve were COMPLETELY IGNORANT. They didn't realise they did anything wrong, until AFTER they did it. They knew no right or wrong.
Adam and Eve certainly knew Afterwards AND they knew that there was a Punishment Before hand AND while they were doing it. Why is it the drunk is given less leeway? Adam and Eve knew the consequences for their actions, even if they didn't know what "good or evil" was. Plus I said the Drunk "urinates", not "drive". The Drunk is completely oblivious of what he urinates on, while drunk. So why should he be held responsible at all?
@Snowmon89: hindsight is not foresight. Same with Pandora's box. And while God had spoken of punishment, the serpent contradicted God and his punishment.
Why is the drunk given less leeway? Because you know beforehand that being drunk can lead to bad behaviour, while Adam and Eve didn't know anything like this beforehand. That's why you're still held responsibly for your behaviour while drunk, but why Adam and Eve were clean.
@PJDesseyn What if the drunk didn't know how he'd react before he became drunk? After all, no one knows their limitations with alcohol until they try it. Shouldn't he still become responsible for his urination? I also haven't had such cases or abortion either. I know that having sex, causes pregnancy. So I don't plan on having sex until after I'm married. Remember, less than only 2% of known abortions are a case like you are suggesting. The rest is because they had conceptual sex.
@Snowmon89: I've never been drunk in my life, and have never drunk alcohol. However, I know the consequences it MAY bring. In knowing this, I simply avoid getting drunk, so that I wouldn't do anything bad because of it. Simple, isn't it? If you know drunkenness can cause harm, then make sure you don't get drunk...
Also, I added reasons like a change in relationship, or faulty anti-conception goods, which take up more than 2%.
@PJDesseyn I'm glad my parents don't feel the same way you do. Abortion never crossed my mother's mind, and she doesn't regret it. Despite everything that happened to her afterwords, including raising two kids on her own and having to deal with my father. But personal experience is beside the point, I guess.
@Snowmon89: And why would Adam and Eve punish their children? They didn't do anything...God is the evildoer in the story and they can't harm him in any way. So what they did, is accept the fact that they're powerless to do anything about their punishment and keep quiet not to get anything worse.
As per abortion: again, I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't have any. It's up to the pregnant person to decide. I'd still like 2 kids myself.
@PJDesseyn I didn't say anything about Adam and Eve punishing their children. I asked, "why didn't they pass down that anger from their experience to their children." In other words, when they ate the fruit, they would now know "Good&Evil". Since you believe God to be evil, Why wouldn't they know themselves. & as such why would they encourage their children to still worship God.
Psychologically, Adam and Eve don't match with your theory.
@Snowmon89: historically, Adam and Eve never existed. And psychologically: Stockholm Syndrome or simply the fact that God would be almighty and can do whatever he wants. It's like beating the obedience in a slave after he tried to run away. They wouldn't try to upset their master in any way after such severe punishment, no matter how unjust it is. Also, we do pass on our knowledge of good and evil. It's just that not everyone listens as well.
@PJDesseyn If they didn't exist then you have no argument to begin with. It's just like arguing about the physics of "superman comics" and then when you find out that you can't win the argument you blurt out "superman doesn't exist". It takes all the fun out of the argument. So overall, either God doesn't exist and therefore not evil, or he does exist and is still not evil. What exactly is you basis for what is "Good&Evil"? You're calling what God did unjust, no matter what he does. So, WTPoint?
@PJDesseyn As for Stockholm Syndrome, God didn't beat Adam or Eve, he did not hold them against their will at all. If anything, God said, "Get out of my house." Adam and Eve were more like freeloading americans that are asked to stop freeloading and get a job. Frankly, it's good for man to work for a living, instead of being kept in a cage and spoon fed everything that they'll need their entire lives. Wouldn't you agree about that much?
@Snowmon89: no, he didn't BEAT Adam and Eve, he merely bestowed upon them, all the suffering of the world, with an eternity of suffering and torture afterwards. I'd prefer the 1-time beating.
Also, Adam WAS working in Eden. He was God's gardener, and Eve was made to help him out. So he HAD a job, but got kicked out and was forced into slave labour. Suffering included.
@PJDesseyn Hold one here... They're going to be tortured anyway, and yet... they still encourage their children to worship him? I believe that you are forgetting that God also invented "Forgiveness". Adam and Eve were kicked out of paradise, so technically anything else would be torture. However, they were only "cursed" to "eat by the sweat of their brows" and "pains in childbirth" that we know that she wont remember anyways.
@Snowmon89: as said, the Stockholm Syndrome. People going through terrible things with their capturers, can create strong emotional bonds with them and would even defend them with their lives in some cases. So yes, the Stockholm Syndrome explains how they can be tortured and still worship God. Further, death and all the suffering in the world, THAT was their punishment, as in Eden, they couldn't die and couldn't get hurt in any way.
@PJDesseyn Stockholm Syndrome does not make since here, because it raises the question. "What terrible things did they go through?" Nothing. The only suffering that they went through was hard work. Hard work is not torture unless you're not used to it. Adam and Eve also lived at least 800 years longer than they should have (by law standards, therefore given mercy and grace.) How is that awful?
@Snowmon89: in Eden, they had no concept of pain, suffering, death, fatigue, hunger, etc. Then they were thrown out and were forced to go through all that, while having nothing of their own. They didn't get a survival pack or anything. So yes, they suffered a great deal, which is a kind of torture, which is how they can get the Stockholm Syndrome. Also, a normal lifetime of suffering is already too much, but 900+ years? That's just atrocious.
@PJDesseyn Says who? Just because there was no suffering, doesn't mean that Adam and Eve didn't know what it was. Afterall, God said, "If you should even touch the tree, you will surly die." Death also didn't exist. So how would they have a concept for what it was?
@Snowmon89: prior to eating the fruit, they were ignorant. Afterwards, they did know, and understood the concepts. It is then that the Stockholm Syndrome kicked in, as it is triggered by suffering. Also note that, had they eating of an other tree, the tree of life, then God wouldn't have been able to kill them. The bible says so!
@PJDesseyn From what I learned from Philosophy, The truth about such things as pain, suffering, death, fatigue, hunger, evil, and ect. is that they "don't exist". Like darkness, they are all the absences (or perversions) of something that already existed. Death -life. Fatigue -energy. Hunger- food. Evil-God. Dark -Light. Cold -Heat. (So long as we don't take the Descartes approach) These facts have been proven time and time again.
- there is no "cold", except for subjective perception. Absolute 0 is 0°K and nothing can get below that, so nothing can be objectively cold. There's only heat.
- a black hole contains a lot of light, yet is still dark, so darkness is not necessarily an absense of light
- the lack of life doesn't mean death either, as non-life concerns almost all inanimate objects, like rocks.
- good and evil are rather subjective as well. I consider the bible evil
@PJDesseyn Plus Adam lost his job because he Broke the rules and therefore "fired", so thank you for agreeing with me there.
Please don't argue against that. They were given only one rule, "don't touch the tree". Whether or not they knew what "good&evil" were, they still knew the rules and the consequences for breaking those rules.
@Snowmon89: they were given 1 rule, but no brains to understand the concept of rules. It's like having a puppy and presenting him with all kinds of food and then saying to him "you can eat from all bowls, but not from that one"...when the puppy eats from it anyway, you kick him out in mid-winter and stop feeding him. That's a very good analogy of what happened at Eden. In analogy, you think it's good to kick the puppy out. Think about THAT for a while.
@PJDesseyn Adam and Eve were not dogs. They had the same brains that We do, if not purer. Adam had the ability to name every animal in the garden, he had the ability to walk and talk with God as if they were equals. He also possessed the ability to reason, build and work. He was not a brainless animal sent out into the cold. If anything, he was a man sent out of his father's house, but trapped on his father's estate.
(on his father's estate.) Not to mention that he was also given a wife to spend his life with. He was also given a way OUT of this "awful world", instead of living forever as a sinner. While he was given his 800 years of life he also received Many years to redeem himself, so that he can go back into his father's house and restore the relationship that he had before.
Seriously, I ask the question, If you were God what would you have done? (AKA, What Should God have done fi you know better?)
@Snowmon89: if I were God, I would've made sure the event never took place. For example, I wouldn't place the tree there, or the snake, or make it unreachable, or would've undone the event, etc. Plenty of possibilities to make it right, yet God chose one that made it far worse and unjust. He tortured them and brough evil into the world.
Here's something else that you need to understand, once something is done, it can not be undone. What you're suggesting is destroying one existence so that another one may exist. As one philosopher stated, "I'm glad that I can use the same wood to build a house, as I can use to base the skull in of my enemy. It means that I do have a choice to do good or evil."
@Snowmon89: of course it can be undone. You have an ALL_POWERFUL GOD to do it. So either God is NOT all-powerful, or he doesn't exist, or it CAN be undone.
As for removing one existence to make place for another: multiple realities.
This woman's voice and the cheesy music ruins this video for me. I would prefer it not be told in some child's bible class format.
imsneaky 3 days ago
Wish I was there.
derekdon01 3 weeks ago
EVER HEARD OF 'chinese whispers' So imagine a story told by a peasant 2,000 years ago to a friend, and then pass that down for another 200 years when this 'Book' of stories was put together. Yes there is a chance that the VIRGIN was an unmaried woman...which meant stoning to death....so there we have one of loads of stories. DO YOU BELIEVE your local papers? EXACTLY..SAY NO MORE.
corporallee44 1 month ago
this video has proof that the bible is real!
MacamVideos 2 months ago
@MacamVideos bibles are for kids ... and its not real....
BIBLE IS AN NOOB copy... they change chapter.. they make it not real... u will see... bible is fake.. quran they never chng it words even for billion years
the bible chng it becuz they noob ;p
GMX1Pred4t0r 2 months ago
@GMX1Pred4t0r Yeah,i also sometimes thought of that..that believe that the bible was written billion of years ago...and even though their is no more even one original copy of it,written by number of people..is i think its real..because the places,cities in their were existing,like the jerusalem etc..i think people who wrote this would not waste their time writtng this much words and books..
MacamVideos 2 months ago
@GMX1Pred4t0r wow you take god knows how long to come up with this reply, truly sad.....lets say both are fake the bible and the quran, which one preaches love and tolerance ????may god help u
nabuchiznasar 1 month ago in playlist Christian Videos
@nabuchiznasar ha nice :) better than ever... not even a war lol all n o region hahaha
GMX1Pred4t0r 1 month ago
Her voice is soooooo annoying!
Clamavi77 2 months ago 2
Sei lá véio, na minha opiniao eram brigas de extraterrestres...
Alex80586 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The bible is real, god is love, jesus is gods son, the time is near...and its time for africa4africans to learn how to spell if it wants to argue.
MsTruthtella 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's irrelevent where Moses is supposed to have crossed the Red Sea.
The Israelites were never in Egypt in the first place, but were actually a small Canaanite tribe, who never left Canaan, which was then a province of the Egyptian empire at the time. Therefore, there was no Exodus, so there was no Crossing of the Red Sea. The whole thing is just a myth.
Darwinsman 3 months ago
Comment removed
Darwinsman 3 months ago
i recommend to try doing this again, only talk with Egyption, Saudi Arabian governments and ask them to allow you to explore that place.
Sheqardi 4 months ago
Mt. SINAI: New discovery of an human HAND sculpted in the most Holy Mountain of the Bible
See, please, my new discovery -in a bilingual website- about a surprising,
and very huge, human hand on two rectangles, all of them excavated on the hard rock of the Sinai mountain:
webspace.webring.com/people/or/ramonetriu/sinai.html
Other research fo RRRiu:
webspace.webring.com/people/or/ramonetriu/links2111.html
rrriu 4 months ago
Galileegirl, I'm nobody special but before you are so quick to judge this research you may wish to see the discovery by Steven DeNoon scholars all over the world rabbinical and Christian are supporting his discovery that has final explained the Biblical Narative. As he writes about Ron Wyatt DeNoons research supports Mr Wyatts and so Mr Wyatts work gives validity to DeNoon. Hold your peace be patient, God was hiding a mystery and at last He is revealing it.
BenDeNoon 6 months ago
@BenDeNoon Check out "Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud" at Tentmaker website. There are several links at the bottom of the page proving that Ron is a total and complete fraud. Where is the sample of Jesus' blood now? In what museum has this Ark of the Covenant been resorted and preserved? All of Wyatt's evidence seems to mysteriously disappear.
pirbird14 6 months ago
There will always be skeptics but for the sake of those like myself that want to support Ron's incredible work leave it open. I would love to know who has the videos of Ron could you be so kind to respond we wish to ask permission for the use.
BenDeNoon 6 months ago
@jamesjpn You should deactivate comments for these important videos to make it more difficult for trolls to ridicule these messages!
87solarsky 6 months ago
@87solarsky yeah, that's a good idea
Lynnmist 5 months ago
GAY.
sssdfrfwrgr 6 months ago
The problem with people is that they think you have to have deep water for the Exodus, you don't. even 20 ft of water would have been a problem for Israel to cross over with Pharoah's army chasing them. The other problem is that people today look at the land and think it was like this back in Moses' time, it wasn't. The entire landscape of the sea was different, in fact it almost extended up to the Med Sea, they called it the Reed Sea back then, need to study more and study the Bible account!
galileegirl 7 months ago
Exodus 14 speaks about the crossing of the Red Sea, then it says, after they crossed the Red Sea, they entered into the Wilderness of Shur, This wilderness of Shur is in the North, east of Succoth between Egypt and the land of the Philistines. Exodus 15 vs 22 says, Moses bought Israel from the Red Sea and they went into the Wilderness of Shur, and they went 3 days without water, The bitter waters of Marah.. and notice, this was AFTER they crossed the red sea from Egypt, guess u missed it eh!
galileegirl 7 months ago
Galatians 4:24 says, This is an allegory for these are the 2 covenants, One is to Jerusalem and one is to Saudi, what the scripture is saying is that the 2 women, represent Freedom and Bondage, Sarah is Jerusalem and she represents Freedom, Hagar is Saudi, and represents Bondage. The Name of Mt Sinai is in the Hebrew and identified by that Name, Mt Horeb is in the Sinai not in Saudi Arabia, dont confuse an allegory with Geography....
galileegirl 7 months ago
Galatians 4 is not about the Geographical place of the Mountain. It is about the 2 women, and what they represent in the scriptures. Hagar was Egyptian, and she was the mother of Ishmael, the first born of Abraham, If you study hagar, you will see that her heritage by her son, takes her to Saudi Arabia. This is why the Biblical narrative connects her to Saudi, and the Hebrew woman Sarah to Jerusalem. Sarah is Hebrew, Galatians 4 is an allegory only. Study it again.
galileegirl 7 months ago
It was mention in Part 3 of Moses throwing the Tablet of the Ten Commandments on the base of the altar of the golden calf. How much would it be worth to see God's own writing? I think they may have taken the pieces of tablets because their hatred can be that great. They want to deny the Jews were ever there. If the Tablets were found, I am afraid you may have to send $19.95 to to see it or worse get a piece of it
joseagosto1 7 months ago
WHITE YOU DO REALIZE THIS ALL IN AFRICA...NOT ENGLAND OR IRELAND FRANCE NOR GERMANY...BUT AFRICA...OPEN YOU BIBLES AND SEE THE LAND OF CUSH WHICH IS MORDEN DAY SUDAN
AFRICA4AFRICANS 8 months ago
THE WAS NEVER A EXODUS!!!!...THE ASHKENAZIES LIED IT IS ALL A LIE!!!
THEY CLAIM THE LEFT KEMET THEN WENT TO CANAAN BUT CANAAN WAS KEMETIC COLONY
AFRICA4AFRICANS 8 months ago
Funny but why does she talk like a retard?
OilyBoily84 8 months ago
I love this world we live in, vast landscapes, hidden treasures, this world is full of adventure, too bad we live in a confined town or city fulled with noisy people and stereotypes that only care about sex fame and money....and we go to work every single day to make a living, where we sit and watch spoon fed rubbish on our televisions... why does this life seem meaningless? i just want to be free to see the world for my self, but to do that, you need money...? why god why?
ShakaSamurai 8 months ago
whatever u want to think monkey is all right by me, if u dont see a difference between the thoughts of a monkey and the thoughts of a human being then this discussion ends here since u are incapable of seeing things from a different more logical perspective. u think im ignorant i have no prob with that i dont need to prove anything to you :) & since u dont have the mind capacity to think for yourself i dont blame you. peace be to you and your own delusions
ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: no individual thinks the same as an other. We're all different, and we all think differently. Also note that humans are still monkeys, regardless of your mental retardation. "you think I'm ignorant", no, I KNOW you're ignorant...you've already proven this. "you don't have the mind capacity to think for yourself", says whom? You? Who can't even type correctly in his own language?
Get an education, grow up, get a degree and conform to reality. Then we can talk with ease.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
Comment removed
ash0806 8 months ago
@PJDesseyn the reason u call yourself a monkey is because u you are a monkey! im not thats the difference between u and me. im not english im dutch :) my own language along with 5 other languages :) i study at a university as i mentioned before i study science/chemistry and the evolution theory is nothing more than a THEORYYwhich has never been proven, so like i said keep on living ur delusional life! ur in such a sad state, and will never win this discussion!! thats proven
ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: "you call yourself a monkey, because you are a monkey"...indeed. I also call a cat a cat, a dog a dog, a horse a horse, etc. So why not call a monkey a monkey? "I'm Dutch"...then why didn't you say so? Lets talk Dutch instead. Ja, ik ken ook een paar talen. "ik studeer aan een universiteit...de evolutietheorie is niets meer dan een THEORIE" -> dit bewijst dat je liegt. Als je echt aan een universiteit studeerde, wist je wat "theorie" eigenlijk betekend in de wetenschap...(cont)
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
@ash0806: "evolutie is nooit bewezen", het wordt elke dag bewezen. Echter, je negeert het overweldigend bewijs, vanwege je strikt-religieuze indoctrinatie. "je zal nooit deze discussie winnen!"...ik heb ze al gewonnen. Als je ECHT wetenschap studeerde (wat je overduidelijk niet doet), dan zou je inzien dat ik gelijk heb.
Trouwens, leuk weetje: het was Carolus Linnaeus, een creationist, die de mens correct classificeerde als aap.
Ik volg enkel de realiteit. Stop met in sprookjes te geloven.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
The crossing of the red sea .Was at the REED SEA which was in Egypt.The Gulf of Aqaba is to far from Egypt to be the crossing site
gaiuskaiser 8 months ago
Thanking the Lord for preserving these sites...and for Ron, his sons, Mary Nell, Jonathan Gray, Richard & Elizabeth Rives and all of the helpers I don't know....who assisted Ron and put up these videos for us to share far and wide! Bless you all.
7323Sharon 9 months ago
THE BUYBULL!!!
AFRICA4AFRICANS 9 months ago
If you belive this, I'll show you the TV studio where they simulated the 1969 "moon landing." This has nothing to do with the Bible or Moses. "Yeah, see it's all here in this coral." "Here you see a chariot wheel, certain evidence.... oops, we couldn't bring it up. I have a couple more at my house if you don't believe me. Can I have money now? My sons need new shoes"
forumghost1 9 months ago
What's the no-stop time for diving to 200ft, free diving?
gamesbok 9 months ago
if human are from the monkey...y still got monkey left? did they cannot be like us??? y?? can u tell me?? darwin are rubish...theres no logic monkey can be human...y bear cant be like human 2? y we must take monkey as our grand grand father? stupid??? yes u are..
21pencil 9 months ago
@21pencil okay one thing, learn to type please! also the reason he believes we came from monkies and not from bears as you asked, is since Monkeys have move able thumbs and they have very similar characteristics as us. I do not believe we came from monkeys but were born human by God.
EverydayTechable 9 months ago
thats legit! <3
RGCrazzy 9 months ago
I can't believe that people are still believing this rubbish from Ron Wyatt.
Even creationist organisations, who will believe almost anything, have actually put up websites warning their supporters about Ron Wyatt and his claims.
Even emminent people who were involved with Wyatt at the time have now distanced themselves from him, but his foundation are still claiming them as verification.
HonestMan395 9 months ago
Whack job video made by and for other whack jobs.
jw4wvu 9 months ago
Scientist went to God giggling with arrogance and said, "I can create life." God said, "OK, show me." The scientist reached down and picked up some dirt in his hand. God said, "No. Get your own dirt."
watchthemoviefitna 9 months ago
Wow... The facts are here and people still refuse to believe.... Yet they believe that something came from nothing (big bang) and the humans came from monkeys... I see why guys have a hard time believing. Science actually proves that the story of Exodus is true... So does history . But if you wanna be ignorant be my guest . Just know that Jesus loves you all.
Eian117 10 months ago
@Eian117: I agree with: "the facts are here and people still refuse to believe". Unfortunately, you're one of those people...something coming from nothing is what the bible says, not the Big Bang Theory. Energy is eternal and cannot be created nor destroyed. It existed when our current universe began. "humans came from monkeys", first learn what Evolution actually claims, then realise we still ARE monkeys. We're also human, primates, apes, mammals, vertebrates, etc. (cont)
PJDesseyn 10 months ago
@PJDesseyn MAN YOU ARE A MONKEY NOT ME
ash0806 9 months ago
@ash0806: all humans are monkeys, so if you're not a monkey, then you're not human either. So tell me, what are you? A weasel? A rat? A mole?...
PJDesseyn 9 months ago
@PJDesseyn thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard in my lifetime, the fact u see a difference between a rat and a mole and a monkey and u cant see a difference between a human being and a monkey leaves me to think ur logical thinking hasbeen obstructed by your own ignorance. i have nothing to say here and u if u are a monkey u shouldnt be able to participate in this conversation cuz ur opinion to me is useless as you regard urself as an animal which cannot think for himself :)
ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: The reason why you think I'm ignorant, is because, ironically, YOU'RE ignorant...all humans are monkeys, but not all monkeys are humans. Humans are primates, apes, monkeys, mammals, vertebrates, tetrapods, bipedals, eukaryotes, etc. You simply deny science, because science proves your fairy tale beliefs to be false...it's a common crime.
Humans are animals and monkeys can think for themselves...maybe you should stop reading the bible, and start looking at reality for a change, retard.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
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YOU ARE THE MONKEY
ash0806 9 months ago
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ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: I used to be a Christian, and I've read the bible. In fact, it's the bible which made me an atheist. Sure, there are SOME true parts in the bible, but the overwhelming majority of it is fiction. No more real than the Greek myths and various other fairy tales.
Maybe you should read more than 1 book, before concluding the bible is the most reliable one on Earth.
I can say with absolute certainty, that it's filled with mistakes, falsehoods, fairy tales and contradictions.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
@PJDesseyn the bible didnt make u an atheist, but ur lack of faith did. ive read lots of books, maybe u should think before u open ur mouth to say that ive only read one book? that goes to show that there is no point in discussing anything with you, since u read my comments only to critisize them, just like u read the bible to only find wrongs? haha do u expect any growth from that? grow up i do not play these childish games, even though i may be much younger than you. have a nice day
ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: faith is for the gullible. I rely on facts, and the facts prove the bible's full of shit. I only became an atheist after reading the bible, so the bible DID make me an atheist. On books, let me rephrase it: you should read pro-reality books, not other fairy tales and creationist propaganda. If you had read pro-reality books, and understood them, you wouldn't claim the bible is the most reliable book there is. The bible is filled with fallacies. (cont)
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
@ash0806: "you read the bible to only find wrongs", no, I didn't. I originally read it to make me more knowledgeable about what the bible says...however, since it's filled with so many wrongs, it made me an atheist. I didn't write the bible, so don't blame me for all the wrongs in it. "grow up", let me give you a bible verse: "do not point out the splinter that is in thine brother's eye, but point out the beam that is in thine own eye". Maybe you should read it too and become an atheist as well.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
@PJDesseyn ur so stupid i already said i read the bible are u blind? cant u read?? or are u a ten year old wanting to win a discussion for the first time? ur a waste of time but because i care ill spend some time trying to explain some things to you- first of all i certainly dont consider you to be the brother which jesus was referring to in that passage :) so good day and i will NEVER EVER become an atheist peace be to you and ur delusions
ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: You CLAIM to have read the bible, but you also claimed it's the most reliable book there is. So either you're lying about having read the bible, or you're lying about it being the most reliable book, because the bible is VERY unreliable. "I will never become an atheist"...why do you limit yourself to archaic mythology, while you have the entire world of knowledge open to you? I say: get a good education. If you do so, chances are high you'll become an atheist anyway.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
how did the bible make u an atheist? u are the reason for your own misconceptions dont try to blame it on everybody and everything else, thats what i mean with grow up. YOU choose to do whatever u like, NOTHING not even the bible MAKES u do anything, stop blaming and accept responsibility for choosing a certain theory that fits you best, we all know that, but apparently u dont.
ash0806 8 months ago
@ash0806: Well, I decided to read the bible objectively (without bias), to learn more about what I (used to) believe. Reading it, made me realise how much of it is just plainly wrong. Atrocities, amoral behaviour, mistakes, foolishness, contradictions, downright fairy tales, etc. I simply could no longer believe. Thus, reading the bible without bias, made me an atheist. "misconceptions": I simply read what it says, not what I wanted it to say. Try reading what it actually says. (cont)
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
@ash0806: I didn't write the bible, I merely read it. So don't blame me for what it says. And what theory? I read the bible, I realised it's bullshit, so I no longer believe in God...That's not a theory, that's a religious stance. The lack of belief in gods = atheism. I lack the belief in gods, hence I'm an atheist. This isn't a theory in any way.
PJDesseyn 8 months ago
@PJDesseyn ass hole piglet
rustyben911 8 months ago
@Eian117: (cont) science and history (history actually IS science) prove exodus DIDN'T happen, as I've proven to your ignorant friend Marty. "if you want to be ignorant"...how is knowing the scientific facts and presenting them to you guys, ignorant?
"Just know that Jesus loves you all", a non-existing person loves me? whoopty fucking doo.
PJDesseyn 10 months ago
@PJDesseyn : hahahahaha your funny my guy... God made science, science can't prove that the miracles of God couldn't have happened... And if history is science then it proves that the Bible is right. That God is king of the universe and that Jesus is alive and the savior of man kind...But go ahead trust in "science" and I'll trust in the King of Kings. Much love bruh bruh!
Eian117 10 months ago
Israeli news
*Israeli product deflects cell phone radiateion from body and reduces electromagnetic exposure by 98 percent
*only 2 countries increased the area covered by forest and agriculture-US,Israel
*Israeli Emergency Bandage is used by US soldiers preventing them from bleeding out in battle
*Team of Physicists UK Canada US Brazil Israel claimed a breakthrough in solving one of the biggest riddles of physics:What happened to all the antimatter that has vanished since the Big Bang
MordechayAriely 10 months ago
all praises to the one god.there is no other god but only one truely god who created all universal the heaven and hell.who is always watching his slave.knowing everything even it 's hidding deepest place.he promised he always be there when his kids call ...so..let us prayed and praises him..what ever u r ,a jew.chirstian, or muslim.
888888643 10 months ago
It amazes me that people choose to disbelieve solid, physical evidence that supports the bible's account of miraculous events. But, disbelief has a future home in a lake of fire. (Oh, I forgot, that's a fable too.) Time will tell.
christsminstrel 10 months ago
@christsminstrel Because the evidential standard of people like Wyatt is so low as to be tripped over. In fact after Wyatt publishes a thing like this secular archeoloigsts (real ones because Wyatt is not an archeologist) come through after him & continual correct his finds (which so far have all been completely bogus).
matthewlane 10 months ago
@matthewlane yeah you're right. ron wyatt wasnt an archeologist when he found this landbridge, he was an atheist explorer that loved traveling the world with his sons. funny how things turned out. now after over several years of legitimate archeological schooling, practice, and teaching, Ron Wyattt is a world renoun archeologist. and to your comment on his findings being "bogus" i'm a logical thinker and i think that sinai and the crossing sight were his only legit findings. the ark...plausible?
Japheth19 10 months ago
@Japheth19 Hahaha Ron Wyatt was never an atheist, he was an anaesthetist. LOL
"legitimate archeological schooling." At no point did Wyatt ever recieve a BA in archaeology, the minimum needed to even get onto an archeological dig (even though he at times claimed that he did, no university has him on there records).
At best Ron Wyattt is a world renown Pseudoarchaeologist, who wouldn't know archeology if he had tripped over it.
matthewlane 10 months ago
@matthewlane yes he was an atheist. it was the whole noahs ark deal that made him change his mind. and he did schooling in the middle east. i have no clue where but then again i only know the names of a handfull of colleges in my area
Japheth19 10 months ago
@Japheth19 I dont know where you got your information, but Ron Wyatt was never an atheist & he never studied archeology & he most certainly did not get a BA. You've been mislead by propoganda, but thats not at all surprising. Most people who believe in Ron Wyatt by neccisity have a evidential standard as low as Wyatts own (otherwise you wouldn't believe in his findings). This is what comes of needing to believe the foundation of ones life is not built on a self perpetuating falsehood.
matthewlane 10 months ago
My opinion is any action never happen without a reason. I say u majority of Bible scenarios are true.The problem is Bible also genarate through human hand. If you love someone you always tend to tell about him/her to others with adding more decorations. Bible written with adding decorations & give a perception of the power of GOD. My conclusion is Bible almost with real things with more decarations. Actually we can find solutions for some unsolved problems seen the Bible.
F22RR22F 11 months ago
I Sometimes question myself... There so many Great Miracles last time... Why don't I see it nor hear it anymore...
Why don't god open a sea for people to escape wars or etc?
Why don't god come mingling around anymore?
zTx1001 11 months ago
proof...my arse...was the sea of reeds and not the red sea anyway....usual bible crap...complete fiction as the rest of it is !
eggchipsandbeans1 11 months ago
Woah... The antiquities museum in Cairo. Some of Ron Wyatt's discoveries are based there!?! Awesome Charette Wheel. Awesome...
He's was an Archaeologist... Fascinating...
I'm not sure i understand all this stuff yet. But my heart is truly captivated by it...
And by your works Sir Ron Wyatt... God Speed to you and yours Always...
DIAMOND9777 11 months ago
The story of Moses is also written in the Koran 7 : 160.
BaronJi 11 months ago
Great video! Thank you so much.
0450marlin 11 months ago
"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom." - Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, Tel Aviv University
karlkarlkarl1234 1 year ago
Hhhhmmm I seem to see a lot of irrelevant comments going on... But for anyone that is actually watching the video and finds this interesting visit my channel for more videos like this with more footage
aroodawakening 1 year ago
@aroodawakening I'm very sorry for piling up comments that are not relevant to the video. I'll stop now.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
Our life on earth is just one speck of sand in all the beaches of time so far but, nothing compared to eternity. I do not know how God will judge these that died before Christ but I do know this, He will be very harsh on those who lied and misled these people to practice worshiping idols and doing things against God's will. Satan made a choice along with a third of the angles and will pay the price in the end. Will you join him?
pbodymathis 1 year ago
@pbodymathis: would I disagree with an infinitely evil tyrant guilty of mass murder, slavery, rape, human and animal sacrifices, lying, deceiving, causing plagues and diseases, etc. and who punishes everyone he doesn't like with the worst torture of all, continuously, for all eternity? Yes, I would.
I have good news for you though: HE DOESN'T EXIST! No need to fear his infinitely evil wrath, for he doesn't exist. Now we can all be good, civilised people without fearing the monster named "God".
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
Ol' Crackin is shakin' in his boots at thought of a real GOD! He lives and one day every knee will bow and one day every tongue will confess.
nipseysparkles 1 year ago
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Amen!! Our God is KING!! He is coming for us and we will dance on streets of GOLD!!! Come soon Lord!!!
nipseysparkles 1 year ago
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nipseysparkles 1 year ago
youre video is true good for our GOD YHVH-JHVH
romeo6211 1 year ago
is there even a moses to begin with?????
slowspeed888 1 year ago
@slowspeed888 yes hsi origional ejyptian name is in records
BeauMuseVids 1 year ago
The problem is that Moses never crossed the Red Sea, but the Sea of Reeds. The latter becomes dry from time to time, when the tide goes out and the Sun evaporates the water left.
So if you see any claims of having found proof in the Red Sea, you already know it's false. It's the Sea of Reeds you need to look for. Also note that the Red Sea was a popular trading route between Egypt, Nabataeans, and even Indians, hence the sunken ships and chariot wheels.
Reality always wins from superstition.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn So many think God is limited. The creator of everything that is good and seen. I do not know where Moses crossed, but you are only breathing because God said so. Anyone can believe a lie, that includes you. People can twist things into whatever they like. Darwin was wrong and so are you. Keep believing a myth- that God does not exist- and you will face His wrath if you believe it or not.
anointedsword 1 year ago
@anointedsword: I don't think God is limited...I think God is non-existing. So far, billions of believers over the course of millennia, have failed to present even a single piece of evidence for the existence of any god...I simply conclude the most obvious: gods don't exist. "I don't know where Moses crossed": according to the original manuscripts, the Sea of Reeds. And sure, I can be wrong...but Evolution remains a fact, just like Gravity. And I don't fear the wrath of the non-existing beings.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn god doesnt want to tell that he is real. if he wanted to prove he was real. he would make the seas come to gether (sorry for bad spelling) and hit us or make the contiens (again sorry) form back to the one big contient (AGAIN). im not a priest nor a pope or munk but i just want to say. i have athesist freinds and they dont care about if he is real or not.
rougeninja99 1 year ago
@rougeninja99: so God wants us to worship him, and would send us to Hell if we don't do as he says, but he refuses to even prove he exists? Sorry, but that's condition #1 for me. If you want me to listen to you, you must first actually exist, as I can't listen to non-existing beings. "he would make the seas come together and make 1 big continent" -> nature can do that and HAS done that all on its own...no god needed.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn im not saying that we would go to hell. if we did not worship him. soo ur saying that the freaking egyptian gods were real. just wait and u will find out the truth
rougeninja99 1 year ago
@rougeninja99: every god is equally real as the other. Ra, Vishnu, Zeus, Thor, Izanagi, Quetzalcoatl, Yahweh, they're all man-made.
Btw, I don't fall for your scare tactics. Granted, if that infinitely evil monster were real, I'd be scared shitless and abandon all notion of morality to do as he says. It'd do everything for him if he's real, no matter how evil. Fortunately, he doesn't exist, so I can be a good and moral person without fear of eternal torture for doing something he doesn't like.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
"I can be a good and moral person without fear of eternal torture for doing something he doesn't like."
Same here. Whether there's a hell or not, I believe in doing good for the sake of good. There's nothing that says that you can't do good. The problem is figuring out what "good" actually is. As someone once said, "A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. "
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: Basically follow the golden rule: don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you. Following your nation's and international laws is also strongly advised.
Certainly don't follow the bible, because it's filled with bad things. But then, Yahweh was a polytheistic wargod, so it's rather logical to have cruelty coming from his part.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
tentmaker dot org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam dot html
subculturistic 1 year ago
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Luck 5 FILM - search youtube:
Mountain Of Fire - The Search For The True Mount Sinai (Part 1)
Exodus Revealed trailer
Exodus Revealed part 1
Sodoma & Gomora cz1.
ARCHEOLOGIA - odkopywanie prawdy Biblii cz.1
;-)
TedNatanael 1 year ago
when did the exodus occur?
Uberrrrrrr 1 year ago
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@Uberrrrrrr "when did the exodus occur?"
It didn't.
Read "The Bible Unearthed" by noted archaeologists Finkelstein and Silberman.
The evidence is fairly conclusive at this point that the exodus never took place. It is simple folklore.
Ron Wyatt is a noted fraud... but of course that should be obvious to anyone who saw the above video and has a triple-digit IQ.
sincristo 1 year ago
@Uberrrrrrr roughly around 1300 BC
GabrielAnsley 1 year ago
People still cling to the hope these myths are historically true? How quaint.
newfagscanttrif0rce 1 year ago
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My daughter Melissa was given 1 hr to live at Columbia Presbyterian Hosp Bx NY. Both her lungs were destroyed her lungs couldn't stop bleeding. Drs said that not even a lung transplant would save her. I remember how in the supernatural God used Moses to part the red sea.So I prayed God in the supernatural power you gave Moses I ask you to close my daughter's lungs like you did to the red sea.. Drs call it miraculous. I say because I dared to believe I received
Godbtheglory1 1 year ago
Moses did not hold the water with his cane , that is not physically possible , probably the tide in this area made it look like something out of the ordinary especially there were no Suez canal at the time. After all , the mericale is on following the laws of Physics not on breaking them.
ol602801 1 year ago
It says in the bible this is wat happened, now this is Proof, anyone who doesnt believe in the bible Cannot say its fake after this, this is EVIDENCE!
crackin113 1 year ago
@crackin113: except for the fact that it ISN'T evidence in the slightest. According to the original biblical manuscripts, Moses crossed the Sea of Reeds, not Red Sea. Also, the Red Sea has long been an important trade route for Egypt with the (far) east. To find chariots on the bottom is very normal, and has nothing to do with Moses, but everything with trade. To use your screwed up reasoning, I could say this: "I have fossils in my floor, ergo I made all life." your reasoning makes no sense.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn This is just one of many historical sites that are documented in the bible that are being discovered. You do not believe because you are blind to the truth, that only God reveals to His believers. In your words it shows your hatred towards God's people, as predicted throughout the Bible! Jesus said that the world will hate you not for who you are but, for your belief in Me. Your stance shows that even though you do not believe in satan, you are one of his followers.
pbodymathis 1 year ago
@pbodymathis: the problem is: the bible doesn't document that site. It documents the Sea of Reeds, NOT the Red Sea. (it's a known translation error) I don't believe, because there's no evidence for it. I only accept reality/the truth, and God isn't part of it. "your hatred towards God's people" -> I don't hate Christians in general, nor Jesus specifically. I hate all the evil committed by Christians and Christianity.
And note that Satan is the good guy in the bible. Try reading it for a change.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn I think there is enough information there to indicate that there was no other possible site. However, one site does not make Christianity true and in fact, you can rationalize every fact about it false if you want to. Satan was never indicated to be a good guy in my bibles nor was he ever mentioned as one. Only the great deceiver. He uses many tools and all kinds of people to fall for his lies. I have fallen for them many of times. Only through Gods wisdom, can I see the truth
pbodymathis 1 year ago
@pbodymathis: The Sea of Reeds exists, and the bible says he crossed there and NOT the Red Sea. Also, there's no evidence at all of Moses having ever crossed the Red Sea. Ruins on either side of the Red Sea? Chariots on the bottom? Sounds very normal, considering it has been used as a trade-route for a very long time. (and even still) Also, I don't claim this one event proves Christianity true or false, I say there's a far more logical explanation than what the bible says.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@pbodymathis: have you ever read any bible? Have you read how God murdered millions and how Satan is, at most, responsible for maybe 10 people's deaths? And how God caused plagues and how Satan revolted against God's oppression? How God hardened the Pharaoh's heart, so that he could kill and harm his people? Read the bible, it's in there.
Satan is NAMED as the bad guy, but if you read the actions, he's really the good guy in the story. Also note it's written by God's people, not Satan's. BIAS!
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn That doesn't make since to me. Haven't you read the story of Job? I'm quite sure that the devil was responsible for those deaths as well. Not to mention, if he was the serpent, then one could also blame him for all the suffering, even though it was man's free choice in the end. Plus the whole "killing equals murder and therefore evil" thing is kind of farfetched when I think about it. We kill animals to eat, so wouldn't that make us evil too? Truly, "good" is not so easily defined.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: It's been a while since I've read it, but I do remember that he made a wager with God and God gave him permission to do those bad things, like killing people, causing diseases, etc. (in that situation) So while the devil may have killed some people, it was with God's permission. He had a "license to kill" sort of speak. According to the original manuscripts, the serpent in Eden wasn't Satan. That claim was added later. Also, Adam and Eve were completely ignorant, so no real choice.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
Forgive me, I disagree on the "completely ignorant" part. Here's why: didn't God also tell them, "Stay away or else(dot dot dot)" Regardless of the "or else" part I think that a "good" person should stay away, if not for just the simple respect of one another as equals. Plus even before they did it, they did mention that they were told not to do it, so that's kind of like a man being told don't touch, but then their "friend" says "let's touch it".
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: the forbidden fruit was "the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil". This means that, before they ate it, they didn't know of good and evil. Hence "completely ignorant". While God may have told them not to eat it, the snake (not Satan) told them it was okay. Not being aware of deception and not knowing good nor evil, they saw no harm in eating the fruit. It's like talking to very little children. They can easily be tricked as well. (so don't do it)
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
Knowledge of a crime doesn't mean that they're innocent of the crime. Kleptomaniacs are a great example of this. The same can apply to other cases as well. How about when a child steals food? Should the mother not have to pay for the food that her child had stolen? Personally, My mother doesn't think so. Back when I was in diapers I took some candy and ate it. When the adults found out the cashier told her that it was alright, but my mother paid for the candy anyway saying, that it was not.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: they didn't know it was a crime, THAT's the problem. Again: they didn't know right from wrong. Besides, God should've put a fence around it or something.
If your child, who doesn't know right from wrong yet, does something wrong, then you as a parent must take responsibility. So in the Eden-case, God was responsible yet again, on several levels. And infinitely cruel as well, as he didn't get punished, but mankind got punished for eternity...
Do you realise he's evil now?
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
They didn't know it was a crime? They weren't exactly mindless children you know. They knew that they shouldn't touch. Whether they understood it was a crime or not. They do, however, understand Action and Reaction. Even my mother knows that when you tell a child not to touch, that they will eventually learn not to do so or else you'd have to discipline them. One warning should be more than enough for people that you seem to think have no knowledge.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: indeed, they didn't know it was a crime. They may not have been mindless children, but very close to it. And eventhough God told them not to eat it, they didn't know the severity of it. Again, they didn't know right from wrong until AFTER they ate the fruit. And children often learn AFTER they did something bad, although not always. And while discipline is good, being infinitely cruel and evil is not.
And they did have no knowledge of good and evil. Isn't that obvious?
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
Plus, considering that God set the rules and that Jesus died. I'd have to say that He did take responsibility and that He still does. Now, what about our crimes? Even if God is evil, does that excuse man for our own crimes as well? One philosopher asked the philosophical question, "Do the Gods do it because it's right, or is it right because the God's do it?"
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: indeed, Jesus died...God got his own son killed...not quite the example I'd follow! And no, our own crimes should be punished, but punished FAIRLY. And clearly God isn't up to the task. The gods are just characters of people. Gods of war are our aggressive side, gods of fertility our "industrious" side, etc. or they portray nature. The gods do things, because it's their nature. For example: the mass murders was when Yahweh was worshipped as a wargod, like Ares or Mars.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn You do realize that Jesus, (even though he did claim to be the son of God) was also God incarnate? So he did pay for whatever crimes you seem to think that he committed. I'm still unsure if he did commit any crimes really, but I'd rather not get into that discussion right now. It's way late into the night. I need some sleep.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: That's one of those issues...people say Jesus = God, but as he hung on the cross, why did Jesus yell "Father, why have you forsaken me?"? If Jesus was God, then surely such a plea would be absurd, as he'd be asking himself why he had forsaken himself...absurd. Hence why Jesus and God cannot be the same entities. Also, Jesus stayed 3 days in hell, versus all of eternity for us humans, who do far, far, FAR less evil than him...so no, he didn't pay.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn Some people believe that Jesus was quoting scripture as his dying breath.
As for forsaking yourself, it certainly is possible.
Yeah, but do you only do one thing wrong? Jesus was apparently pure of sin. Not to mention that he claims to have died for everyone else's sins so that we wont have to go to Hell. Again, it's late here. This is a whole nother discussion entirely. Let's determine what's good or not, first, please and thank you.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: "Jesus was apparently pure of sin", that's not what the bible says...remember the temple-market? He did some sinning right there! Not to mention the 20-30 years of his life which just happened to be unmentioned. It's like claiming Mary had a child as a virgin, rather than having had sex out of wedlock. And the bible doesn't say Jesus died for our sins, it says he died for the sins of our fathers, meaning we're no longer responsible for what our ancestors did wrong. and yet still are
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn "For who so ever believes in me will not perish but have eternal life."- Jesus just said it.
"For that while we were still sinners, God sent his only begotten son, so that we would not perish, but have eternal life." - there it said it again. Plus, when Jesus was on the cross, he said "It is finished" but the exact translation means "From now and on". Sounds like he died for our sins too. But if you still think that he died only for "our fathers". Sorry.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
Just to clarify when I said, "but the exact translation means"
By this, I do not mean that the translation is wrong, but the "tense" of the words Jesus used doesn't exist in the English language. If you study latin then you might see what I mean here.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: what you've just shown, is not that he died for our sins, but that there will be an eternal afterlife for everyone...Hell is also an eternal afterlife...and "perish" refers to what we atheists consider as death: put in the ground and that's it. And I said "for the sins of our fathers" which refers to the law which states that the guilt of your sins can be passed on to your children and future generations. (OT)
Either way, Jesus didn't abolish our sins in any way.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
I'm going to hop of to bed now, so if you want to continue this conversation, can we continue it in PMs? This is kind of fun and surprisingly pleasant for me. And if not then, good bye. Thank you for the talk.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: sure, you may PM me. Might be easier too.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
Plus shouldn't we consider what Adam and Eve did After they ate the fruit? From what I recall, Adam blamed God for giving him Eve, who "Tricked him" to eat the fruit. Then Eve blamed the serpent for her bad choice. Right there are two more apparent sins. I'm just clarifying here. Even if Adam and Eve were purely innocent before they ate the fruit, now they had the knowledge of good and evil, but they chose to do the evil thing instead. Then God, Instead of killing them, banishes them.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: those aren't sins, but truths. Eve told Adam to eat it and the Serpent told Eve to eat it, all while both were ignorant of right and wrong. Only afterwards did they realise they were tricked, so they didn't sin, they were tricked. And yes, instead of giving them the very unjust punishment of a quick death, he instead let them suffer for almost 1000 years before allowing them to finally die...
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn But that wasn't the whole truth. Adam and Eve were responsible for their own choices, but now that they knew it, why didn't they say so? It doesn't really matter or not if they were tricked into anything. They were told Not to do something, but they clearly did it anyway. Today, I'm still apologizing for the ignorance of my youth. Suffer for a thousand years? Now you may be right, instead of living in a paradise they now lived in well earth, raising hundreds of kids.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: how can they be held responsible for their choices, if they were oblivious to it? Again, they didn't know the very notion of right and wrong and were tricked. It's like a very young child: you can easily trick it and it's not the child's fault to get tricked, as it's incapable of understanding the concept yet. So Adam and Eve are not to blame. They were tricked and God should've done something to prevent it. And God was evil to make them suffer for his own mistakes.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn(how can they be held responsible) Okay, then let's look @ a different situation. Let's say that a Janitor found a leak in a tank of a non-explosive gas. He figured it was nothing so he left it alone. The next morning it was found that the Gas gone through the ventilation and killed the entire infant ward. Should he not be responsible for his mistake? What about drunks? Should they be held responsible for what they urinate on while intoxicated?
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: your examples are completely different than the issue at hand. In the janitor's case, since he found the leak, it was his job (and he would be fully aware of this) to close the leak, even if it were harmless. And drunks should be held responsible for their drunkenness, hence why you're not allowed to drive while being drunk. The difference is, that Adam and Eve were COMPLETELY IGNORANT. They didn't realise they did anything wrong, until AFTER they did it. They knew no right or wrong.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
Adam and Eve certainly knew Afterwards AND they knew that there was a Punishment Before hand AND while they were doing it. Why is it the drunk is given less leeway? Adam and Eve knew the consequences for their actions, even if they didn't know what "good or evil" was. Plus I said the Drunk "urinates", not "drive". The Drunk is completely oblivious of what he urinates on, while drunk. So why should he be held responsible at all?
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: hindsight is not foresight. Same with Pandora's box. And while God had spoken of punishment, the serpent contradicted God and his punishment.
Why is the drunk given less leeway? Because you know beforehand that being drunk can lead to bad behaviour, while Adam and Eve didn't know anything like this beforehand. That's why you're still held responsibly for your behaviour while drunk, but why Adam and Eve were clean.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn What if the drunk didn't know how he'd react before he became drunk? After all, no one knows their limitations with alcohol until they try it. Shouldn't he still become responsible for his urination? I also haven't had such cases or abortion either. I know that having sex, causes pregnancy. So I don't plan on having sex until after I'm married. Remember, less than only 2% of known abortions are a case like you are suggesting. The rest is because they had conceptual sex.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: I've never been drunk in my life, and have never drunk alcohol. However, I know the consequences it MAY bring. In knowing this, I simply avoid getting drunk, so that I wouldn't do anything bad because of it. Simple, isn't it? If you know drunkenness can cause harm, then make sure you don't get drunk...
Also, I added reasons like a change in relationship, or faulty anti-conception goods, which take up more than 2%.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn I'm glad my parents don't feel the same way you do. Abortion never crossed my mother's mind, and she doesn't regret it. Despite everything that happened to her afterwords, including raising two kids on her own and having to deal with my father. But personal experience is beside the point, I guess.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: And why would Adam and Eve punish their children? They didn't do anything...God is the evildoer in the story and they can't harm him in any way. So what they did, is accept the fact that they're powerless to do anything about their punishment and keep quiet not to get anything worse.
As per abortion: again, I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't have any. It's up to the pregnant person to decide. I'd still like 2 kids myself.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn I didn't say anything about Adam and Eve punishing their children. I asked, "why didn't they pass down that anger from their experience to their children." In other words, when they ate the fruit, they would now know "Good&Evil". Since you believe God to be evil, Why wouldn't they know themselves. & as such why would they encourage their children to still worship God.
Psychologically, Adam and Eve don't match with your theory.
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: historically, Adam and Eve never existed. And psychologically: Stockholm Syndrome or simply the fact that God would be almighty and can do whatever he wants. It's like beating the obedience in a slave after he tried to run away. They wouldn't try to upset their master in any way after such severe punishment, no matter how unjust it is. Also, we do pass on our knowledge of good and evil. It's just that not everyone listens as well.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
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@PJDesseyn If they didn't exist then you have no argument to begin with. It's just like arguing about the physics of "superman comics" and then when you find out that you can't win the argument you blurt out "superman doesn't exist". It takes all the fun out of the argument. So overall, either God doesn't exist and therefore not evil, or he does exist and is still not evil. What exactly is you basis for what is "Good&Evil"? You're calling what God did unjust, no matter what he does. So, WTPoint?
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn As for Stockholm Syndrome, God didn't beat Adam or Eve, he did not hold them against their will at all. If anything, God said, "Get out of my house." Adam and Eve were more like freeloading americans that are asked to stop freeloading and get a job. Frankly, it's good for man to work for a living, instead of being kept in a cage and spoon fed everything that they'll need their entire lives. Wouldn't you agree about that much?
Snowmon89 1 year ago
@Snowmon89: no, he didn't BEAT Adam and Eve, he merely bestowed upon them, all the suffering of the world, with an eternity of suffering and torture afterwards. I'd prefer the 1-time beating.
Also, Adam WAS working in Eden. He was God's gardener, and Eve was made to help him out. So he HAD a job, but got kicked out and was forced into slave labour. Suffering included.
PJDesseyn 1 year ago
@PJDesseyn Hold one here... They're going to be tortured anyway, and yet... they still encourage their children to worship him? I believe that you are forgetting that God also invented "Forgiveness". Adam and Eve were kicked out of paradise, so technically anything else would be torture. However, they were only "cursed" to "eat by the sweat of their brows" and "pains in childbirth" that we know that she wont remember anyways.
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: as said, the Stockholm Syndrome. People going through terrible things with their capturers, can create strong emotional bonds with them and would even defend them with their lives in some cases. So yes, the Stockholm Syndrome explains how they can be tortured and still worship God. Further, death and all the suffering in the world, THAT was their punishment, as in Eden, they couldn't die and couldn't get hurt in any way.
PJDesseyn 11 months ago
@PJDesseyn Stockholm Syndrome does not make since here, because it raises the question. "What terrible things did they go through?" Nothing. The only suffering that they went through was hard work. Hard work is not torture unless you're not used to it. Adam and Eve also lived at least 800 years longer than they should have (by law standards, therefore given mercy and grace.) How is that awful?
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: in Eden, they had no concept of pain, suffering, death, fatigue, hunger, etc. Then they were thrown out and were forced to go through all that, while having nothing of their own. They didn't get a survival pack or anything. So yes, they suffered a great deal, which is a kind of torture, which is how they can get the Stockholm Syndrome. Also, a normal lifetime of suffering is already too much, but 900+ years? That's just atrocious.
PJDesseyn 11 months ago
@PJDesseyn Says who? Just because there was no suffering, doesn't mean that Adam and Eve didn't know what it was. Afterall, God said, "If you should even touch the tree, you will surly die." Death also didn't exist. So how would they have a concept for what it was?
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: prior to eating the fruit, they were ignorant. Afterwards, they did know, and understood the concepts. It is then that the Stockholm Syndrome kicked in, as it is triggered by suffering. Also note that, had they eating of an other tree, the tree of life, then God wouldn't have been able to kill them. The bible says so!
PJDesseyn 11 months ago
@PJDesseyn From what I learned from Philosophy, The truth about such things as pain, suffering, death, fatigue, hunger, evil, and ect. is that they "don't exist". Like darkness, they are all the absences (or perversions) of something that already existed. Death -life. Fatigue -energy. Hunger- food. Evil-God. Dark -Light. Cold -Heat. (So long as we don't take the Descartes approach) These facts have been proven time and time again.
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: actually, some have been disproven:
- there is no "cold", except for subjective perception. Absolute 0 is 0°K and nothing can get below that, so nothing can be objectively cold. There's only heat.
- a black hole contains a lot of light, yet is still dark, so darkness is not necessarily an absense of light
- the lack of life doesn't mean death either, as non-life concerns almost all inanimate objects, like rocks.
- good and evil are rather subjective as well. I consider the bible evil
PJDesseyn 11 months ago
@PJDesseyn Plus Adam lost his job because he Broke the rules and therefore "fired", so thank you for agreeing with me there.
Please don't argue against that. They were given only one rule, "don't touch the tree". Whether or not they knew what "good&evil" were, they still knew the rules and the consequences for breaking those rules.
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: they were given 1 rule, but no brains to understand the concept of rules. It's like having a puppy and presenting him with all kinds of food and then saying to him "you can eat from all bowls, but not from that one"...when the puppy eats from it anyway, you kick him out in mid-winter and stop feeding him. That's a very good analogy of what happened at Eden. In analogy, you think it's good to kick the puppy out. Think about THAT for a while.
PJDesseyn 11 months ago
@PJDesseyn Adam and Eve were not dogs. They had the same brains that We do, if not purer. Adam had the ability to name every animal in the garden, he had the ability to walk and talk with God as if they were equals. He also possessed the ability to reason, build and work. He was not a brainless animal sent out into the cold. If anything, he was a man sent out of his father's house, but trapped on his father's estate.
Snowmon89 11 months ago
(on his father's estate.) Not to mention that he was also given a wife to spend his life with. He was also given a way OUT of this "awful world", instead of living forever as a sinner. While he was given his 800 years of life he also received Many years to redeem himself, so that he can go back into his father's house and restore the relationship that he had before.
Seriously, I ask the question, If you were God what would you have done? (AKA, What Should God have done fi you know better?)
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: if I were God, I would've made sure the event never took place. For example, I wouldn't place the tree there, or the snake, or make it unreachable, or would've undone the event, etc. Plenty of possibilities to make it right, yet God chose one that made it far worse and unjust. He tortured them and brough evil into the world.
PJDesseyn 11 months ago
@PJDesseyn "would've undone the event"
Here's something else that you need to understand, once something is done, it can not be undone. What you're suggesting is destroying one existence so that another one may exist. As one philosopher stated, "I'm glad that I can use the same wood to build a house, as I can use to base the skull in of my enemy. It means that I do have a choice to do good or evil."
Snowmon89 11 months ago
@Snowmon89: of course it can be undone. You have an ALL_POWERFUL GOD to do it. So either God is NOT all-powerful, or he doesn't exist, or it CAN be undone.
As for removing one existence to make place for another: multiple realities.
PJDesseyn 1