@juanrapegaso Claro pues como no tienen algo deberas de valor para mostrar como para acallar imagenes como esta crean mentiras como: El laberinto del fauno, amar en tiempos revueltos o cuentame lo que paso. y esto que si es historia esta proscrito.
Thanks to Franco, his followers, a bunch of illiterate fanatics, and the Church contritubed to the downfall of Spain. No wonder Spain, a country with such rich history, fell to the lowest level any nation can fall and become one of Europe's poorest countries. Franco paved the way for Hitler's invasion of Europe. Remember Guernica? Think about that!
@mabodomoca Franco took a piece of land than has no more worth that its name and left the 9 world econmomy, I sugest you to read a book insted of learning from discovery chanel, becasuse to many "good" people help hitler, however Franco gave the spanish nationality to many sefarditas (spanish jews) saving many of them.
On the other hand the reds much more places than guernica (actually a fake work, coz Picasso gave that name to a paint he started a long time before guernica)
Me dá verguenza ser español leyendo esta mierda que expulsais por la boca unos y otros fanáticos de los cojones, suscribo la frase del ministro inglés que djo en el 36 hablando de nuetra vergonzosa guerra civil:
Los ingleses odiamos el fascismo, pero odiamos en igual medida al bolchevismo. Si en un país fascistas y bolcheviques se matan entre ellos, será un gran bien para la humanidad
Viva Franco! sólo hay que ver videos de las entradas triunfales en distintas ciudades para ver como eran recibidos por la multitud. Nos quieren hacer creer que los rojos eran unos pobres angelitos. No nos van a engañar. En España se mató y se fusiló a mucha gente sólo por ser Católica. La izquierda sólo trae miseria y hambre. Sólo hay que ver como esta el país tras 8 años de Gobierno izquierdoso y manipulador.
estan los fascistas muy nerviosos desde que en españa esta la democracia: llevan 24 años aguantando al gobierno que derrocaron, la diferencia es que por mucho que berreen y pataleen como cerdos, ya no se pueden salir con la suya.
ahora se casan los homosexuales, se dan papeles a inmigrantes, se quitan estatuas de franco, se puede votar, la iglesia esta mas hundida que nunca, se desentierran fosas de represaliados, tenemos a un rojo de presidente.
AQUI NO HAY QUIEN SEPA DECIR LAS COSAS COMO SON, LO CIERTO ES QUE EN ESPAÑA HUBO UNA CAUSA LEGAL,ELEGIDA POR EL PUEBLO,POR ELECCIONES DEMOCRÁTICAS,Y HUBO TAMBIEN UNOS MILITARES TRAIDORES,UNA MONARQUÍA SIBILINA UNA ALTA SOCIEDAD Y UNAS CORPORACIONES ECONÓMICAS Y UNA IGLESIA QUE SE VIERON JODIDAS EN SUS INTERESES. Y NADA MÁS.
Franco did win, and survived the next 36 years, so he was succesfull. An oldfashioned conservative dictator. But an effective one. This cannot be said about the present Zapatero government, especially on economic policies. More than 20% unemployment and an enormous debt due to wrong political decissions. What is worse a succesfull dictator or a failing democrat?
@AndreasAntoniusMaria Zapatero is a Marxist in disguise of "Social Democracy". They wait to unleash a Second Spanish Civil War from 2011-2014. They want to destroy e.g. the Catholic Church, the Spanish national honour, Catholic in public schools. They have already succeeded in spreading huge apostasy and huge decadence within 25 years now. By modern media. New Anti-Catholicism. New Anarchism. New Communism (due to protests against reductions). All upcoming. Only few loyal Roman Catholics.
VIVA EL LIBRE PENSAMIENTO,VIVA LA MORAL Y ETICA LAICA Y HUMANISTA, NI CRISTO ES REY NI EL REY ES CRISTO,ES UN SÁTRAPA Y ASESINO DEL PUEBLO,AL IGUAL QUE SU MENTOR,GENOCIDA Y ASESINO DE UN PUEBLO QUE EMPAZABA A LEVANTAR VUELO Y LE CORTÓ SUS ALAS,LAS ALAS AL PENSAMIENTO LIBRE,A LA EDUCACION,AL CIVISMO,A LA CULTURA,A LA IGUALDAD,AL RESPETO MUTUO ENTRE SERES HUMANOS Y ENTORNO,A LA CIENCIA Y AL AVANCE TECNOLOGICO,A LA DEMOCRACIA..
@depolonia jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajjajajaja is that, what you want. jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja eat my cock
@jcamontflor ROJOS Y LIBERALES: ASESINOS Y TERRORISTAS CONTRA LA LIBERTAD DEL PENSER< CONTRA LA LIBERTAD DE CONSCIENCIA.
VIVA LA CIENCIA Y LA AVANCE TECNOLOGICO, VIVAN LAS UNIVERSIDADES FONDADAS PAR NUESTRA SANTA MADRE IGLESIA CATOLICA APOSTOLICA ROMANA! VIVA ESPAÑA CRISTIANA
@IustitiaPax gente como tu tendria que estar donde dejaban tus asquerossos fascistas en una fosa, payaso enterate de ke va un poco i ablaaaaa! pero primero piensaaa!
@IustitiaPax la victoria de franco,el nacional catolicismo y sus secuaces leales lacayos,fueron la ruina de españa, la demora en todos los avances, y el retroceso social,cultural y económico que españa tuvo en 40 años que duró la tiranía.
@jcamontflor El Marxismo es la tiranía del materialísmo. Tiranía. Cristo Rey = Libertad y Progresión y paz social. Anarquía, asesinos, genocidio = Marxismo-Leninismo y Anarquísmo.
Franco era un general, un hombre español como todos los otros.
Viva España. Viva la justícia social. Viva Cristo Rey. Viva la paz social y las universidades catolicas en Europa!
@IustitiaPax ABERRACIÓN TOTAL........SIN COMENTARIOS, USTED NO SABE NI DONDE ESTÁ DE PIÉ. YO CON USTED DE ESTAS COSAS ¡NI HABLARRRR!. NI EL RÉGIMEN DICTATORIAL NI LA IGLESIA CATÓLICA ALABA EL LIBRE PENSAMIENTO Y LA LIBERTAD DE CONCIENCIA QUE SÍ DIFUNDÍA LA REPÚBLICA Y SUS VALORES COMO ASÍ ERAN LA CULTURA,LA CIENCIA,LA IGUALDAD DE SEXO Y TODO AVANCE TECNOLÓGICO,PERO YA VEO YA.....NI PUTA IDEA SEÑOR NI PUTA IDEA, ME APENA SU ENAJENACIÓN MENTAL.
@IustitiaPax Pero vamos a ver buen hombre, el terrorismo contra la libertad del pensar, vamos lo que comúnmente se conoce como fascismo, como sinónimo, creo yo que fue más por parte de los fascistas que de los no fascistas, o sea pienso yo, no sé quién hará más fascismo según tu opinión. En todo caso, la ciencia y el avance tecnológico es lo que fue más vilipendiado, precisamente, a parte de la libertad de expresión, dada la presión moralista de la iglesia. Lee un poco y lo aprenderás.
@alvaradico Sé que las mentiras de este "anti-fascistas." Yo soy un historiador. El progreso científico llegó a la iglesia! Los católicos establecidos universidades. Los terroristas rojos no eran pensadores y científicos. Heisenberg, Copérnico, Louis Pasteur, Padre Gregor Mendel (Reverendo Padre). Sólo unos pocos ejemplos. La Iglesia ha informado aún los españoles. Sólo la Santa Iglesia. No terroristas rojos y liberales falsificadores de la historia.
@auricalco ¡Gracias! Georges Lemaître fue un sacerdote y físico. Galileo sólo tiene arresto domiciliario debido a su afirmación "teológica" (anti-bíblica, anti-iglesia). No por su heliocentrismo! >> Copérnico era un canónigo y el cura!
@IustitiaPax Terrible tragedia para los españoles y parala humanidad esa dolorsísima derrota. El avance tecnológico y la ciencia solo podrán librarnos cuando terminemos con el egoismo y las ambiciones de los cerdos burgueses..
@huguitosoul Usted es un guerrero de clase, edad. Teoría curiosas! ¿Todavía quieres asesinar a los "civiles"? Asesinos marxistas ..!. Progreso significa: orden, familia, universidad, Creatividad. El estado terrorista izquierda no hay creatividad. Ninguna ciencia. España católica era fuerte, y nacional. Su marxistas y los anarquistas han tenido su día. ¡Abajo la tiranía de la izquierda. Libertad para Europa. Libertad para España. ¡Viva Borbón. Dios bendiga a España!
el pp será lo q sea según las encuestas q haga sobre sus votantes más adeptos, medio votantes suyos y los q no lo son ; los partidos deben cambiar como la sociedad sino los q conocen más las necesidades, preocupaciones e intereses sociales se la meteran bien; si no ¿cómo iba a seguir el PCE con esas siglas? pocos tras franco y especialmente tras final de la urss iban a votar a un pce; ni el soe radical, ni pce ni falange podrían sobrevivir. Bueno quzas como los batasunos en ayuntamientos.
Os equivocáis, la Pasionaria amenazó de muerte a Calvo Sotelo, y a los pocos días le asesinaron, se pusieron a quemar iglesias los socialistas y volvieron a asesinar. Entonces como se esperaba una reacción del ejercito, se fueron a detener a los generales sospechosos, entre los que se encontraba Franco, y en defensa propia, empezó una guerra que no quería Franco, sino que se vio obligado a defenderse. Lo demás que os inventéis los rojos manipuladores es todo mentira... Consultar las hemerotecas
@banhopi ¡Muy bien! Comunistas: mentiras! Y la mentira prensa socialista. Y la prensa anglo-americana se encuentra la Costa Este. El mariscal de campo de Franco llegó sólo para la autodefensa. Contra la amenaza más grande contra el bolchevismo. Contra el anarquismo. Y para España, por Dios, por la santa religión católica. Para construir un Estado de bienestar. ¡Viva Cristo Rey. ¡Viva España!
@IustitiaPax y tú no serás falangista verdad? jajajajajajajajajajjajajajajaja estás más colgao que la vieja loca facha. cómo apesta esto.......voy a lavarme las manos.
@IustitiaPax yo te respeto ¿tú nos respeta? tu iglesia no respeta al individuo,no respeta otras creencias,no es tolerante con el libre pensamiento,tu iglesia es imposición. Tu monarca juró lealtad al movimiento franquista.
@jcamontflor Te respeto como personas. Tú eres mi hermano como una persona. Sin embargo, su ideología de izquierda es asesina, lamentablemente. La Santa Madre Iglesia es así con todos. Sin embargo, la iglesia debe condenar a los asesinos y los errores para que los niños de la iglesia no se pierda. La extrema izquierda / librepensadores mismos son intolerantes y asesinos. Católicos vascos han llegado a un acuerdo con los republicanos, 1936-1939, por cierto. Diferente opinion dentro de la iglesia
@IustitiaPax NO, NO CREO SUS PALABRAS,LE RESPETO COMO PERSONA "Y COMO CREYENTE", LA INTOLERANCIA NO PARTE DEL OBRERO NI DEL CAMPESINO NI DEL COMUNISMO NO,ELLOS NO PUEDEN SER INTOLERANTES POR UNA SENCILLA RAZÓN,ELLOS SON PUEBLO,Y EL PUEBLO QUIERE,DESEA LA PAZ. LA IGLESIA POR EL CONTRARIO,TIENE UNA LARGA TRAYECTORIA DE ASESINATOS Y CON SAÑA. MUY GRAVE.
@IustitiaPax CREO QUE TE TIENEN DEMONIZADO EL COMUNISMO AMIGO,NO PRETENDO CONVENCERLE,YA ES USTED MUY MAYORCITO,PERO SI NO FUERA POR EL MOVIMIENTO OBRERO JUNTO CON SU VANGUARDIA EL COMUNISMO,LOS OBREROS ESTARIAMOS CURRANDO DE SOL A SOL COBRANDO UN JORNAL MÍSERO,PERO DE ÉSTO QUE HABLO YA ESTÁ LA DERECHA DEL CAPITAL TACHANDOLO DE SU AGENDA,PRIVATIZAR Y JODER AL OBRERO.
@jcamontflor VOLVER AS SIGLO XXI. NO AL STALINISMO, NO A LAS REVOLUCIONES. EL MOVIEMENTO OBRERO SERA SOCIAL Y CATOLICO. NO AL MATERIALISMO, SÍ A LA FAMILIA, LA RELIGION, LA JUSTICIA SOCIAL, LA SOLIDARIDAD, LA CRISTIANDAD. VIVA LA MONARQUIA, ARRIBA ESPAÑA. VIVA CRISTO REY.
@IustitiaPax ¿ves como al final eres franquista amigo?,¿dices que eres monarquico?¿arriba españa? yo lo que pienso es que usted ha nacido y se ha criado",porque no educado entre otras cosas porque franco no dió educación ni espiritu crítico a su pueblo eso si lo esclavizó" bajo el régimen franquista.
Responder a este vídeo...la monarquía señor es del siglo X, ¿volver al siglo X? NOO hombre NOOO, la republica fue futuro,libre pensamiento,avance,ciencia,cultura, y es lo que va a volver a ser,en españa sobra lo arcaico,lo que usted representa es sinónimo de atraso asesinato crueldad y oscuridad,necesitamos luz,conocer las cosas y no que se nos oculten como bajo el régimen totalitario de la iglesia. el materialismo nunca mató a nadie,la iglesia asesinó a millones de criaturas.
@jcamontflor El comunisme y el ateismo: asesinos de biliones de innocentes. Comunismo (revolución): sinónimo de genocidio y crueldad (KGB, Anarquístas). No al anarquísmo. Cristo Rey: futuro por España y todo el mundo. Ciencia: universidades catolicas. Union Sovietíca: ignorancia, propaganda, materialismo, destrucción de la família. Moviemento nacional: por Dios, patria, familia y justicia social. Viva Cristo Rey y arriba España.
@IustitiaPax oye estás peor que una regaera,y no perderé mi tiempo en decirte nada así que vayase usted con su dios y su cristo rey y su patria y su justicia social que para justicia social la de CUBA. VIVA FIDEL VIVA LA REVOLUCION.
@IustitiaPax es una bendición,y te diré más,desde el vaticano,quien os gobierna vuestra fé,no es el sucesor de dios en la tierra,no,es el sucesor de satanás.y toooodas sus sotanas negras esparcidas por el mundo son sus esclavos fervorosos ,sus más lascivos discípulos que engañan cuando predican la palabra del anticristo. estan al lado del poderoso,bendicen bombas armas soldados que asesinan destruyen la vida,los sueños,escuelas y viviendas.
@IustitiaPax quien eres? la vieja loca de los videos? jajajajajajajajajajajajaja ¿héroes,santos?, los únicos héroes y santos fueron el pueblo español masacrado y asesinados por el fascismo.
@banhopi quien te habrá contao la historia amigo mio quien jajajajajajajajajajajajajajjajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja amos a darle una cru par pecho ome que sa la ganao. joé jajajajajajajajajajajajajaj muy bueno sí señor muy bueno.
fascistas, sabed que la historia volverá a repetirse,pero esta vez,no venceréis,porque la humanidad respira libertad y socialismo. una vez tuvisteis suerte,pero dos no se repiten.
Sí es verdad, cada vez somos más socialistas.. pero de boquilla; sino mira al gobierno socialista de España. Lo que parece que se va a repetir o se está repitiendo mas bien, es la derecha más extrema debido recesiones económicas, paro galopante y la indigente masa de inmigrantes que son perfectos echarles la culpa. Y además ¿a quien te refieres? los causantes de la sublevación ya como que no los pilla nadie: ni unos ni otros son ya los de antes. Vamos a mirar al futuro mejor.
@TheCafesquare Vamos,creo que tú no te enteras de que vá la sátira, si te refieres al Psoe, te estas refieriendo a un partido No socialista por supuesto, y traidor de la clase obrera, eso No es socialismo, el poder politico en un sistema capitalista,está supeditado al poder económico que es quien manda,si no lo sabías ya lo sabes.y el Pp es el fiel heredero de las ideas nacionales de franco,falange y rateros que sólo les importa el bollo y el obrero como el muerto al hoyo.
@jcamontflor Pues eso de q las ideologia izquierda/derecha solo es propaganda y votos;es el mercado quien de verdad pone las reglas dl juego..en eso estoy de acuerdo; pa qué? si así están cómodos: sus votantes en general no están mal del todo, q más dá 3º mundo o las 3 mil viviendas? hay 20 mill de trabajadores y más consumidores. Un gobierno debe buscar estabilidad y en la 2º republica los radicales izquierda ganaron a moderados gracias al apoyo social y se creyeron rusos: inestabilidad
@lox12 Truly an amazing impression - the National cause against Communism united all: both workers and nobility and clergy and farmers. All against tyranny, all in favour of stability. As Samaranch stated in August 2009: never did Spain have a more tranquil and peaceful era than under El Caudillo, Gen. Franco.
@markvanleeuwarden Freedom and peace come at a price. If you think that combatting guerilla Communists is "murder", you should go protest the anti-Taliban actions of current armies. General Franco never "murdered" thousands of people. I disagree with some of Franco's policies (e.g. on the Basques and Catalonia), but you should deprogramme yourself. You have been indoctrinated with too much Communist and Liberal lies on the Franco era. Franco was a man of peace ánd order.
@markvanleeuwarden Defending civilians against Communist and Anarchist mass murderers is not "murder", but indeed an act of love of one's nation. Your view of Franco is wrong and anti-historical. Franco was attacked often, because he did the best for his own country and for his own people - before the interests of international finance or of the communist bloc. You should see how the normal people, farmers, workers and scientists loved the National crusade. See the video.
@IustitiaPax He did his best for HIS OWN people indeed. He had a lot of people killed, not for being communist or anarchist, but simply for being suspected of having leftist sympathies or even defending their own country against military rebels. For being republicans, liberals or moderate socialists. His 20% max. rule is a famous example of this. That had nothing to do with justice or a crusade.
@markvanleeuwarden Nonsense. After April 1, 1939, Franco's government cleansed the governmental institutions of pro-Republican sympathizers of course, but they were not executed at all. Hundreds of thousands went to France in Red Cross camps and other went to the USA, Soviet Union and Léon Blum's social-democrat France. You should stop repeating your left-wing propaganda knowledge. You try to defend Republican terrorists who raped and murdered nuns and who murdered nationalists WITHOUT process.
@IustitiaPax I hope you not saying here that no people were executed in Spain for being (suspected of or related to(!)) left wing activists or symphatisers? I'm not defending terrorists and murderers, that is what you are doing!!! I repeat again that the Franco regime was very repressive in many ways. That does NOT mean that I say the republic was a utopia and everything was perfect there! It is NOT okay to rape and murder people, whether they are nuns, priests, left or right winged!!
@markvanleeuwarden In 1939 and 1940, numerous court martials were organized against politicians and Republican soldiers and officers involved in units or propaganda leading to the Republic massacres of priests and of other Spanish citizens. Sometimes even those members of the CPE or Unión Marxista were condemned and executed, but these excesses quickly stopped. These excesses were often built on popular consent, and not organized by Franco himself.
@markvanleeuwarden The Republic was "not perfect"? Not everything? The Republic after 1936 was a government which massacred hundreds of thousands of Catholic clergy, monarchist civilians, Falange adherents, farmers and other 'reactionary families' alike. The Republic was a terror regime, and Franco struck it and restored order. In Valle de Los Caídos, Franco even had Republican (if Catholic) officers buried next to him. Franco was a man of honour, not like Communist torturers.
@markvanleeuwarden The Nationalist troops were received everywhere (except in the - Catholic - separatist Basque Region) as liberators, even in Barcelona itself. Despite the excesses. You can view all videos. The Republican regime was built only on the terror of the Anarchists, POUMA, CPE and later of the Cheka itself. The Republic was not democratic at all. It was a phoney "democratic" state like the DPRK (North Korea).
@IustitiaPax Spain was split in 2, of course the nationalists were welcomed as liberators by their supportes, just like the republicans would be by theirs and the nazis also were in Austria and Poland. There are videos from that as well.
@markvanleeuwarden No, the Nationalists during the conflict gained the sympathies of a majority of the Spaniards, because the Nationalists did not seek to re-impose a liberal capitalist monarchy, but also imposed the Auxílio Social etc. And the common people saw Franco as their liberator from a Republican regime which after 1936 only stood for chaos, leftist terrorism and random injustice.
@IustitiaPax Anyway, I don't think we are going to convince each other, you have your view, I have mine. I'm not going to continue this discussion any longer. I did learn 1 (very scary) thing from this discussion though and I want to thank you for that; I agree with Franco on 1 thing! We both wished he had stayed an officer instead of becoming head of state.
@markvanleeuwarden This is not about views. This is about historical truth. About historical facts. You should read Pío Moa, César Vidal Manzanares. Prof. Stanley G. Payne has proven irrefutably, how the left-wing in the West and Protestant anti-Spanish anti-Catholic bias have influenced the view of the conflict. And Payne has proven how the left-wing and the anti-clerical liberals were responsible for the Civil War. The fact that you refuse to answer to argumentation proves your subjectivism.
@IustitiaPax I don't refuse to answer to anything. And I don't know how many times already I said I'm not defending the republic, and certainly not the (mass) murders that occured during the existance of the republic. All I'm saying saying is that Franco was not a hero and that there was political violence under his 'command'. Badajoz, Durango, Guernica, bombing of Madrid & Barcelona are also historical facts.
@markvanleeuwarden General Franco was a hero for liberating Spain from Communism and Anarchism. Or do you prefer those left-wing ideological regimes? Of course during the Franco era, the supression of Basque separatism was violent. The rest is left-wing propaganda. Gernika/Guernica was a military target, and the number of victims inflated. War is always horrible though, even just revolts.
@lox12 To be replaced by the psycho Franco who killed thousands and thousands of people. They were 'free' from the communists and emprisoned by the fascists, much worse!
@markvanleeuwarden No, communists are far, far worse. Soviets would pull the strings, and it would be red hell on earth, and eventually drawn into ww2.
Spain would suffer thousandfold damage compared to civil war.
@lox12 I guess we will never know what would have been worse. Either way I'm not promoting a communist state in Spain. All I'm saying is that Franco was far from a liberation for Spain.
@markvanleeuwarden General Franco liberated Spain from the threat of Communism and Anarchism. You have not seen the era of 1938. You have not seen your parish priest be executed and be mutilated in cruel ways by so-called "Socialists" and Anarchists and Communists. General Franco is a hero to the majority of Spaniards, even if many today trust the Socialists more, because the young were brainwashed by Marxist teachers in the early 1980s secondary schools.
@IustitiaPax I think you are stuck in your right-wing conviction and fear of left. Not for 1 second have I defended the violence against priests or anyone. The spanish civil war was horribly cruel from both sides. There is no excuse for that. Unfortunately Franco won this war and had the chance to exercise a crude regime to anyone suspected of opposing him. That Franco is a hero for most Spaniards is a lie though, most people hate him. Saying he is a hero is a big insult for a large part of the
@markvanleeuwarden I know you yourself did not defend the cruelties, but the Republican government did. The very constitution of the Republic was anti-Catholic and anti-Christian, and not democratic át áll. The Spanish people democratically wanted Catholicism in the public sphere too, and not the anticlerical campaign of Socialists, Communists, Anarchists and Liberals.
@markvanleeuwarden The Spanish Civil War was fought with fierceness, but humanness by the Nationalist side. And with cruelty by the Republicans. This is demonstrated by Pío Moa and other historians with a clear sight. Once upon a time, Pío Moa was a left-winger and even a Maoist. Without the victory of General Francisco Franco, Spain and Europe would have been lost to civilization.
@IustitiaPax You are a bit over the top here 'Without the victory of General Francisco Franco, Spain and Europe would have been lost to civilization.'????? There's civilization without the Catholica church as well. Cela was a Franco supporter who turned to the other side. There's no point in giving examples of people that swapped sides.
@markvanleeuwarden There is no civilization in societies which have rejected Christianity actively. Of course ancient civilizations existed as well, but they were often unhuman in aspects. I meant that Spain and Europe would be lost to Communism without a victory of Franco. Soviet Communism and Communist ideologians are anti-humanitarian.
@IustitiaPax - I think that usually Franco and the Spanish Civil war is not being assessed objectively. He is either seen as 'fascist' and 'pure evil' fighting against a 'democratically elected government' or admired as a 'saviour of Spain and civilization', who although had some political opponents killed, but they deserved it. I think neither of these pictures is true.
@OlenkaWagner I base my opinion not on allegations or sentiment, but merely on facts. I have stated that I know of the Nationalist excesses in revenge from 1939-40 and maybe even up to 1942 or 1943. But after 1940, virtually all executed political criminals were given a fair trial. The victims of the Republicans never got a fair trial. Remember Jóse Calvo Sotelo's death. General Francisco Franco was not a fascist, and never wanted to become the Leader of Spain at all. Just accidentally.
@IustitiaPax - I am not talking about sentiments, if I based on sentiments I would pobably support Franco without much criticism. I also know about the crimes of the Republicans and I oppose any effort to present them as fighting for the right cause. With few exceptions they were murderers. However, I cannot overlook crimes like the one in Badajoz, which really happened. Even if some crimes were exaggerated or invented, enough real crimes remain.
@OlenkaWagner The massacre of 1,400 Republican militia members in Badajoz happened indeed, but in August 1936, during the Spanish Civil War (not after it), and Franco was not even the head of the Uprising of the Nationalists yet. Yagüe was responsible for it. And I can assure you, that this incident was enlarged, because US Reporter Jay Allen sent reports of it to the USA. The murder of 44,000 Catholic clergymen and sacristans etc. was ignored in the American press.
@IustitiaPax - I am not arguing that the 'incident' waspresented accurately. But even if it was enlarged, it happened. Franco might have not been responsible or initially might have not even known about this, but he already knew that when he appointed Yagüe a minister rather than having him tried for war crimes.
@OlenkaWagner You are right. But do you realize that Pilsudski did the same to Soviet troops from the Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1921? Thousands were shot by the Polish Army, other died in POW camps by 1922. Again, I fear that Yagüe intended to execute political criminals and milicians on the spot. He did take official Republican troops as POWs in Barajoz, but those were few. Most executed were milicia members. "Terrorists" without military statute. He feared their partisan activicites.
@IustitiaPax - The number of Soviet troops who died in Polish captivity is not known. Soviets did not raise the issue at the beginning and the issue became only raised nowadays when it was not longer possible to hide (in Russia) the truth about the Katyn massacre. So Russians had to convince the public that Poles did something equivallent if not worse. Many Soviets did die in the prison camps due to diseases....
cont. - Bad conditions were responsible, for sure, but these bad conditions were rather caused by the inability to provide necessary facilities than by any deliberate action. Of course, there were also some prisoners killed deliberately, but the number is uncertain. It looked rather like some uncoordinated actions (sometimes revange) rather than something organized. Nevertheless, when happened it was unacceptable.
@OlenkaWagner There are always causes for starvation. Like with Nazi concentration camps (which were inspected by the Red Cross and approved of in September 1944) in early 1945 until May 1945, the collapse of nutrition supplies makes regimes choose to feed their own civilians before detainees. There were executions of Soviet political commissars by Poland too in 1921. Be sure of that. It is well referenced even by Norman Davies. Germany just did that at a larger scale. In a bloody war.
@OlenkaWagner We should not overlook crimes. Guernica/Gernika remains a propaganda piece from the Republicans and the left-wing international press. Guernica was a defended town, with militar units, and the civil casualties were exaggerated. In fact, many Legion Condor volunteers afterwards did not even remember its bombing. It was insignificant. The early 20th century started with atrocity propaganda by journalists serving politics, rather than vice-versa.
@IustitiaPax - Notice, I did not mention Gernika. It was popularized, because of the painting by Picasso and became an icon, but I know the truth was different. I have even heard an anegdote (true or not) that Picasso initially painted his picture to honour his friend - torreador who was killed by a bull, but when Gernica was bombed, he decided to dedicate it to the victims.
@IustitiaPax - to make it clear, I am happy that it was Franco who won and not the communists. In this sense he did save Spain. But I cannot overlook the scale of repressions. You admitted that he violantly crushed Basque separatism (BTW, most Basques were strongly linked to the Catholic Church and not communists). Also executions of prisoners were not justified. Also his anti-democratic views have to be criticized. He allowed only referenda on minor issues and was againt the elections.
@OlenkaWagner Thank you, that is exactly my point. Personally I regret that he won the war, but I can see why you are happy he won. As long as we keep seeing the good AND the bad there is a healthy balance.
@markvanleeuwarden Yes, of course. But one should not invent "bad things" which never happened. The West and the left-wing politicians in Europe have invented all kinds of atrocity lies and propaganda against Franco and Spain. We know this from Mr Joop Den Uyl and his socialist hate mongering in The Hague against the government of Spain. Franco liberated Spain, but every civil war brings war casualties with it. Did Stalin bury enemies within his tomb? No. Franco did. A Catholic.
@IustitiaPax - Here I agree, if someone wanted to bring the case to court he/she should bring the case against both sides. On the other hand it does not make much sense, because most of the perpetrator are dead and you cannot sue dead people. Well, Santiago Carrillo (republican) is still alive...
@OlenkaWagner I know of many failed policies and wrong opinions (from my point of view) of General Franco, but Franco knew the fragile order in Spain. His strict regime must be interpreted in this way; he knew what laxity from 1931-36 had led to. The Basque separatists indeed were Catholics and Christian-Democrats, but until 1938 they all allied with the Republican cause, and implicitly accepted the anticlerical mass murders. Not very Christian to do so.But I personally like Basques.
@IustitiaPax - Basques had no choice. Spanish nationalists wanted unified Spain. To have autonomy they had to rely on Republicans. Their dilema was tragic, but I fully understand them. I do not know any Basques personally. I was in San Sebastian for several hours and I met one Basque (I think he was Basque) on YT. But I think he blocked me, because we disagreed about Franco. He said Franco was fascist, I said he was antidemocratic, but not fascist. ;)
@OlenkaWagner The Basque Region is difficult. Please notice, that a Basque ethnic nation-state never existed. Nor did Slovakia before its independence in 1939. I do sympathize with Basque culture etc. But the Kingdom of Navarre of old had a Basque majority, but large Spanish-speaking and French-speaking minorities, collectively forming a majority.
@markvanleeuwarden Most people "hate" him? You mean, that ex-Republicans hate him. But they are only a loud 20 % Socialist minority. The majority is neutral and apolitical (more like regionalist, like in Galicia), but 40 % of the Spaniards venerate general Franco and his era of order and progress. You think you know every Spaniard? I even spoke to ordinary people in Barcelona who loved the Franco era.
@IustitiaPax No, I mean that most Spaniards do not look back positive on the Franco era. Just like you I don't know every Spaniard, but if 40% venerates Franco and his politics I would expect the falange to do better in the elections.
@markvanleeuwarden Do you know, that most of the Moviemento Nacional joined the Partido Popular? Not all pro-Franco supporters support the revolutionary social-nationalism of the Falange splinter movements. And Carlism was lost due to Carlos Hugo and his flirts with marxist ideology.
@IustitiaPax Spanish population, I know descendents from people that were faced with a choice to either defend their government or support military rebels. Not extreme left, never used violence against priests or anyone. Shot years after the civil war against a cemetery wall. Leaving a wife in Spain in the 40s without any means of support, children that never saw their father again, grandchildren that never new their grandpa. I can follow you view that Franco defended Spain against extreme left
@IustitiaPax wing threats, I don't agree with it but I can understand it. But please don't call him a hero, that is a really nasty thing to say and insulting to thousands and thousands of people currently in Spain. Just like Stalin is not a hero for defeating the nazis, he just mass murdered too many people. I'm sure Pol Pot did some good things as well, a hero?? Not for me.
@markvanleeuwarden General Franco was a hero for defending Spain against Communism and Anarchism indeed. He was a hero, and he was a man of honour who even respected his enemies. Of course executions and martial courts in 1939-40 took place against Republicans accused of crimes of war. And many were shot. But you cannot compare Franco to Stalin or Pol-Pot. You are just a biased and ignorant man spouting lies and calumny.
@markvanleeuwarden You cannot blame some incidents or tragedy of a Republican soldier in a unit which committed war crimes, and all officers were shot, on General Franco. This is a war and martial courts. Overall, Franco unlike Stalin and unlike Pol-Pot and other of your left-wing mass murderers, was a pious man who never even wanted to become Leader of Spain. On the contrary, he wished just a military peaceful career.
@IustitiaPax Thank you for acknowledging that many people were shot after the civil war. There were after 39/40 as well but okay. And to be honest I don't care whether he was pious or what his hobbies or ambitions were... And I'm not biased or ignorant or spouting lies. A bit disappointed that our interesting discussion has to end like that, yes. And for the last time; I'm not defending left-wing or republican violence, not in Spain, not in Russia, nowhere.
@markvanleeuwarden Who were after 1940 or 1943? None that I know of. Franco's Spain was an orderly state, not a state with senseless killing of political opponents at all. You mean anti-OUMPA anti-guerilla tactics in Catalonia in 1945? If you oppose left-wing killing and left-wing terrorism, you should have defended the purpose of the Nationalist cause. Despite the excesses of which Nationalist troops were also guilty of, although Nationalists were more civilized than Republican units.
@markvanleeuwarden Much worse? Whát? You think that the authoritarian government of General Francisco Franco, who strove for national reconciliation even with his own former Republican enemies, was "worse" than to be mass-murdered by Bolshevik commisars like in the USSR and Cuba? Spain under Franco was an orderly state: flourishing tourism and economy (SEAT etc.), social welfare, safety on all streets. Today with democratic socialism: prostitution, crime, chaos - soon again Civil War.
@IustitiaPax Spain under Franco was a terrible state. Where a Russian salad was not even allowed to be called a russian salad because Russia was the enemy. In all countries with a former tolitarian regime (Russia, Rumenia, etc.) you see conservative movements saying in the 'past everything was better'. Be honest, there was a lot of (political) violence in the Franco era. And do you honestly think there was no crime and other problems in Spain then??
@markvanleeuwarden I agree that some policies of the Franco era were ridiculous and that Franco's treatment of the Basque and Catalan autonomy question created problems. But this is not to be compared with the USSR and its mass murder policy. From 1940 until 1975, Spain was a harbour of peace and economic development in tourism and factories. Of course it took a long time for Franco to reach social welfare levels of Holland and Belgium, but he succeeded in it.
@markvanleeuwarden For all Spaniards, he wanted reconciliation. There was little political violence after 1940 and certainly none after 1945. During the Franco era, tourists and Spaniards could safely walk on the streets and criminals were duly punished. There were no Russian Comsomol plutocrat criminals buying up Marbella and no Romanian Roma and Sinti child prostitution like today. It was a clean state. I am not nostalgic at all, as I am a historian. I just compare. I also admit some problems.
@IustitiaPax Sorry, but being shot without trial against the cemetery wall for defending the republic is political violence. It happened to a relative in 1943!
@markvanleeuwarden So? Martial courts and punishment for war criminals was a normal procedure in all countries. The Republican units involved in massacres of religious sisters and the killing of Falange and even very democratic royal CEDA politicians (José Calvo Sotelo!) were all registered and those complicit in Republican massacres, were executed after a military trial in Spain in 1943. Not without trial. That phase ended in Sept. 1939.
@markvanleeuwarden I know the martial courts, and numerous Republicans were freed and absolved, if they only would leave into Franco and never enter Spain again. Even criminal Republicans were pardonned. But if your relative was a complicit in a crime against humanity (like murdering Catholic seminarians or killing the children of a Falange sympathizer), he was shot duly. This is not about sentimentalism, but about justice. The Republic was a terror regime. Franco's was never.
@markvanleeuwarden Jij weet als naïeve Nederlander niets over historische feiten over het Spanje ten tijde van Franco. Ik wel. Als je zo graag een Communistische staat wenst, dan emigreer je toch naar Cuba of Viëtnam! Generaal Franco heeft Zuid-Europa bevrijd van het Communisme en heeft Spanje opgebouwd, zonder zelf ook maar één cent regeringsgeld voor eigen familie en voor eigen gewin te gebruiken. Hij was een nederige politicus. Hij was liever marine-chef gebleven.
@IustitiaPax Sorry, you don't know me. Don't tell me what I do and don't know. I happen to know a lot about Spain under Franco.And I'm not promoting a communist state. I'm just saying Franco was a disgrace for Spain. He brought Spain to ruins and suppressed the major part of it's population. And why this communism against Franco always?, in the 1936 elections the communists got about 3% (!!) of the votes. Only because Stalin was the only person willing to help the democracy the communists grew.
@markvanleeuwarden What do you know about Spain under Franco? From Socialist sources? From wikipedia or English "historians"? Franco brought Spain to "ruin"? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement. Until 1975, Franco succeeded (despite international blockades by socialists and liberals) to make Spain a success story in tourism and construction and industry, giving wealth to many. The Spanish guest workers of 1965 in Holland all went back by 1974, to a wealthy Spain of Franco and Juan Carlos.
@IustitiaPax I'll give you the Spanish miracle. Indeed there has been an economic good period under France. You do sound a bit negative on the English historians though. Concerning the Spanish Civil War and the Franco era I believe they are better (at least more objective) than many Spanish historians though. The Spanish historians seem to choose sides always, left or right. Sometimes a bit of distance is better. The BBC made an excellent and objective documentary on the civil war.
@markvanleeuwarden So Franco reconciled with (Catholic) Republicans, rebuilt Spain, created social welfare, created social wealth, tourism, but you still are trying to hate Franco for some Nationalist excesses. While you continuously relativize or deny Republican mass murders. I condemn many aspects of Anthony Beevor and Ian Gibson and other left-wing "historians", because they falsify history. This is defamation of the victims of the decadent-terrorist 2nd Spanish Republic.
@markvanleeuwarden I have a lot of distance, so has prof. Stanley G. Payne. Pío Moa once was a pro-Republican ideologian, but he was confronted with the facts from the Spanish Civil War. And they made him think critically about his own ideology, and now he is a conservative. The BBC? Excuse me? The BBC? This propaganda institute full with anti-Spanish "Black Legend", anti-Catholic and pro-left-wing collaborators? The BBC only since 2009 has become more neutral on internal politics.
@markvanleeuwarden Stanley Payne has proven the bias of all "establishment" Spanish Civil War historians. I personally exclude most of Anthony Beevor's work, but even Beevor is a clear British anti-popery sympathizer of the Republican side and an enemy of "Fascism" (which makes him "a good guy" in academicis). Gabriel Jackson and many others like Paul Preston are clear Socialists in every aspect. Hugh Thomas is the only neutral exception. And even he has some prejudices.
@markvanleeuwarden Democracy? The Republican government was no democracy. Democracies do not allow the political assassination of opposition leaders and they do not enforce laws against the majority of the people. The 1936 Spanish elections were widely held to have been left-wing frauds, at that time. Even the League of Nations was critical. Anarchists were as violent and bloodthirsty as the OGPU. Read César Vidal. Even Anthony Beevor (left-wing socialdemocrat) admitted the leftists wanted war.
@markvanleeuwarden Who started the murdering of "clericalists"? Of the peaceful Renovación royalist-Alfonsist political leader Calvo Sotelo. The death threats against José María Gil-Robles. The killing of peaceful CEDA local democratic politicians by "central" Liberals (Freemasons), Socialists, Social-Democrats, Guardía Civil left-wing officers, Trotskists, Stalinists (the latter only 2 % of Spanish politics)? The Nationalist Uprising was only a logical consequence of state terrorism.
@masterchris84 liberar Espana del Communismo? .La dictadura la impuso Franco y los Fascistas no la Republica..Y l el Frente Popular no era communista...fue elijido por el pueblo en las elecciones de 1936 Que elecciones ganaron los fachas? Y vuestro appoyo a Hitler y los Nazis Y viceversa? No te accuerdas o no te quieres accordar?.Goebbels se queda corto con vosotros..Yo pensaba que Goebbels era el rey de la propaganda pero veo que los fascistas espanoles apprendieron bien y lo superaron
@Salmirche aki nadie es tonto para no saber que era el marxismo stalinismo contra españa aliada de musolini,hitler y los moros, definitavamente fue el mal menor , ya que a franco nadie lo puede acusar de nazi , porque lo que se repudia de eso es la masacre y perseccucion por causas de ser judios, franco ofrecio ayuda a decenas de miles de judios y nunca permitio que se los lleven o los persigan cuando los protegio.
@masterchris84 Franco offrecio ayuda a miles de judios pero se cargo a miles y miles de republicanos, socialistas liberales, communistas, anarchistas y demas solo porque decian NO al fascismo. y a los curacos...y si al libertad ....asi...no sigas mas con tu propaganda....la suerte que tubieron los fascistas en Espana a la fin de la segunda guerra mundial fue la guerra fria immediata....porque si non, los alliados os hubieran pegado una bofetada y hubieran salindo buffando Franco y compania
@Salmirche dicen que la gente normal y decente si puede asustarse y repudiar las matanzas con razon , pero un rojo un comunista socialista progre y demas , debe tener la concha del tamaño del colorado para atreverse a hablar de genocidio cuando su macabra idiologia a cometido los peores genocidios 10 veces mas que hitler .stalin mao polpot ,abimael guzman , hacen ver a hitler un bebe de pecho
@masterchris84 Hitler fue responsable de la muerte de mas de 50 milliones en menos de 5 anos...a ese paso , cuantos mas hubieran muerto en 25 anos mas?
Stalin y Mao fueron assesinos? Es verdad pero no cambia el hecho Franco, Hitler y Mussolini, con la complicidad de la Iglesia lo fuerron tambien
@Salmirche lo siento pero aqui no defiendo y repudio al nazismo y al comunismo, y genocidio es especifico no es guerra ni responsables, es exacto solo por exterminio de gente inocente de una manera calculada y macabra , no en guerra, ni por sus efectos,asi hablariamos de napoleon y nadie lo considera
El franquismo asesino a miles de personas, dio un golpe de estado antes un gobierno elegido democraticamente por su ciudadanos. Sabeis lo que hizo el genearl yague en badajoz? Asesino a nada menos que 4000 personas... Por suerte Franco y sus generales fallecieron ya. Por la TERCERA REPUBLICA ESPAñOLA!
@zipoletas y lo que hizo el presidente del gobierno arias navarro?? el de franco a muerto, o mejor dicho el carnicerito de malaga con casi 20000 fusilados en malaga ..
JAJJA!! me has quitado el comentario de la boca!! todos apuntados por francotiradores!! mentiras de esas nos contaban en la escuela "democrática" aquí en Barcelona... no tenian ganas esas nobles gentes del Madrid de entonces de que se terminara la guerra y, sobretodo, el caos y el desmán en que se convirtió España durante las Repúblicas (en especial, claro está, la segunda...). Me pongo en situación y tuvieron que ser momentos más que emotivos..
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
El pueblo, o los republicanos, luchaban con pasion y honrando a unos principios; en el frente franquista estaban la mayoria obligados a luchar en ese bando.... FRANCO CABRON!! FRANCO FUCK YOU!!
liberador??? te recuerdo que fue el originzador de cientos de muertes (tanto de un bando como de otro).. fue un personaje que no supo respetar unas eleciones votadas por todos los españoles y tuvo a españa presa dirante 40 años de dictadura
Si liberador! Tu es indoctrinado par las fuerzas marxistas en las universidades occidentales desde 1968. Elecion 1936? Falsificada par los socialistas! Falsificada. Dictadura? No. Autocracia del pueblo español acclamante el suo Caudillo.
!Viva FRANCO! Ahor tendría que venir a ver si quitaba a tanto delincuente y politicucho chupóptero de éste pais.Democracia de mierda,que sólo ayuda a inmigrantes irregulares con el dinero que los dem´s curramos, porque a la izquierda le interesa, sin control.Dios mio, en lo que hemos transformado este pais.Descontrol absoluto.
ARRIBA ESPAÑA
VIVA LA VIRGEN MARIA
VIVA CRISTO REY
franmon88 4 months ago 4
ARRIBA ESPAÑA
COTO A LOS 35 AÑOS DE PROPAGANDA SOCIALISTA DEFORMANDO LA REALIDAD HISTORICA.
REPOSICION DE LOS HONORES A FRANCISCO FRANCO
juanrapegaso 4 months ago 4
@juanrapegaso Claro pues como no tienen algo deberas de valor para mostrar como para acallar imagenes como esta crean mentiras como: El laberinto del fauno, amar en tiempos revueltos o cuentame lo que paso. y esto que si es historia esta proscrito.
auricalco 2 weeks ago
Thanks to Franco, his followers, a bunch of illiterate fanatics, and the Church contritubed to the downfall of Spain. No wonder Spain, a country with such rich history, fell to the lowest level any nation can fall and become one of Europe's poorest countries. Franco paved the way for Hitler's invasion of Europe. Remember Guernica? Think about that!
mabodomoca 4 months ago
@mabodomoca Franco took a piece of land than has no more worth that its name and left the 9 world econmomy, I sugest you to read a book insted of learning from discovery chanel, becasuse to many "good" people help hitler, however Franco gave the spanish nationality to many sefarditas (spanish jews) saving many of them.
On the other hand the reds much more places than guernica (actually a fake work, coz Picasso gave that name to a paint he started a long time before guernica)
auricalco 2 weeks ago
¡Menudo error tipográfico! Querrás decir "tropas rebeldes" o "facciosas" o "traicioneras."
Veovis523 5 months ago
Me dá verguenza ser español leyendo esta mierda que expulsais por la boca unos y otros fanáticos de los cojones, suscribo la frase del ministro inglés que djo en el 36 hablando de nuetra vergonzosa guerra civil:
Los ingleses odiamos el fascismo, pero odiamos en igual medida al bolchevismo. Si en un país fascistas y bolcheviques se matan entre ellos, será un gran bien para la humanidad
Cefalopodo73 7 months ago
@Cefalopodo73 Que interesante cita y cuanta verdad hay en ella.
sfowatcher 1 month ago
Viva Franco! sólo hay que ver videos de las entradas triunfales en distintas ciudades para ver como eran recibidos por la multitud. Nos quieren hacer creer que los rojos eran unos pobres angelitos. No nos van a engañar. En España se mató y se fusiló a mucha gente sólo por ser Católica. La izquierda sólo trae miseria y hambre. Sólo hay que ver como esta el país tras 8 años de Gobierno izquierdoso y manipulador.
84Spanish 9 months ago 6
@84Spanish si señor, más claro el agua. ARRIBA ESPAÑA.
juryops 6 months ago
La 3a república será vuestro fin!
Makidura 9 months ago
Ya pueden decir lo que quieran, que una imagen, vale más que mil palabras.
Artesanaenvideo 10 months ago
Viva Franko!
PoulMeyr 10 months ago
@1984madridista lo dicho, por mucho que berreen y pataleen como cerdos.. XDDD mas razon que un santo hoyga!!
QQWEERTTYUUI 10 months ago
@jcamontflor Siempre ha habido tontos del culo como los gilipoyas como tú
bdurruti58 10 months ago
estan los fascistas muy nerviosos desde que en españa esta la democracia: llevan 24 años aguantando al gobierno que derrocaron, la diferencia es que por mucho que berreen y pataleen como cerdos, ya no se pueden salir con la suya.
ahora se casan los homosexuales, se dan papeles a inmigrantes, se quitan estatuas de franco, se puede votar, la iglesia esta mas hundida que nunca, se desentierran fosas de represaliados, tenemos a un rojo de presidente.
ahora a cascarla!!
QQWEERTTYUUI 10 months ago 4
Qué alegría en las caras del pueblo al haber sido liberados de la plaga roja! Es palpable tantos años después...
wirbelw2 10 months ago
Comment removed
wirbelw2 10 months ago
Por qué siempre hay muchas mas imagenes de soldados republicanos que de nacionalistas?
olvoro11 11 months ago
AQUI NO HAY QUIEN SEPA DECIR LAS COSAS COMO SON, LO CIERTO ES QUE EN ESPAÑA HUBO UNA CAUSA LEGAL,ELEGIDA POR EL PUEBLO,POR ELECCIONES DEMOCRÁTICAS,Y HUBO TAMBIEN UNOS MILITARES TRAIDORES,UNA MONARQUÍA SIBILINA UNA ALTA SOCIEDAD Y UNAS CORPORACIONES ECONÓMICAS Y UNA IGLESIA QUE SE VIERON JODIDAS EN SUS INTERESES. Y NADA MÁS.
jcamontflor 11 months ago
Europa wartet auf den neuen Einmarsch der neuen Frankisten! Tod dem Kommunismus. Marxismus muss sterben!
depolonia 1 year ago 19
let's fuck euro-communists and other pedophils!
depolonia 1 year ago
Franco did win, and survived the next 36 years, so he was succesfull. An oldfashioned conservative dictator. But an effective one. This cannot be said about the present Zapatero government, especially on economic policies. More than 20% unemployment and an enormous debt due to wrong political decissions. What is worse a succesfull dictator or a failing democrat?
AndreasAntoniusMaria 1 year ago
@AndreasAntoniusMaria Zapatero is a Marxist in disguise of "Social Democracy". They wait to unleash a Second Spanish Civil War from 2011-2014. They want to destroy e.g. the Catholic Church, the Spanish national honour, Catholic in public schools. They have already succeeded in spreading huge apostasy and huge decadence within 25 years now. By modern media. New Anti-Catholicism. New Anarchism. New Communism (due to protests against reductions). All upcoming. Only few loyal Roman Catholics.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
VIVA EL LIBRE PENSAMIENTO,VIVA LA MORAL Y ETICA LAICA Y HUMANISTA, NI CRISTO ES REY NI EL REY ES CRISTO,ES UN SÁTRAPA Y ASESINO DEL PUEBLO,AL IGUAL QUE SU MENTOR,GENOCIDA Y ASESINO DE UN PUEBLO QUE EMPAZABA A LEVANTAR VUELO Y LE CORTÓ SUS ALAS,LAS ALAS AL PENSAMIENTO LIBRE,A LA EDUCACION,AL CIVISMO,A LA CULTURA,A LA IGUALDAD,AL RESPETO MUTUO ENTRE SERES HUMANOS Y ENTORNO,A LA CIENCIA Y AL AVANCE TECNOLOGICO,A LA DEMOCRACIA..
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor , fuck you!!!
depolonia 1 year ago 3
@depolonia jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajjajajaja is that, what you want. jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja eat my cock
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor ROJOS Y LIBERALES: ASESINOS Y TERRORISTAS CONTRA LA LIBERTAD DEL PENSER< CONTRA LA LIBERTAD DE CONSCIENCIA.
VIVA LA CIENCIA Y LA AVANCE TECNOLOGICO, VIVAN LAS UNIVERSIDADES FONDADAS PAR NUESTRA SANTA MADRE IGLESIA CATOLICA APOSTOLICA ROMANA! VIVA ESPAÑA CRISTIANA
IustitiaPax 1 year ago 14
@IustitiaPax gente como tu tendria que estar donde dejaban tus asquerossos fascistas en una fosa, payaso enterate de ke va un poco i ablaaaaa! pero primero piensaaa!
ke verguenza me da este video
instantemagico 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax la victoria de franco,el nacional catolicismo y sus secuaces leales lacayos,fueron la ruina de españa, la demora en todos los avances, y el retroceso social,cultural y económico que españa tuvo en 40 años que duró la tiranía.
jcamontflor 11 months ago
@jcamontflor El Marxismo es la tiranía del materialísmo. Tiranía. Cristo Rey = Libertad y Progresión y paz social. Anarquía, asesinos, genocidio = Marxismo-Leninismo y Anarquísmo.
Franco era un general, un hombre español como todos los otros.
Viva España. Viva la justícia social. Viva Cristo Rey. Viva la paz social y las universidades catolicas en Europa!
IustitiaPax 11 months ago
@IustitiaPax otro meapilas pederasta
bdurruti58 10 months ago
@IustitiaPax ABERRACIÓN TOTAL........SIN COMENTARIOS, USTED NO SABE NI DONDE ESTÁ DE PIÉ. YO CON USTED DE ESTAS COSAS ¡NI HABLARRRR!. NI EL RÉGIMEN DICTATORIAL NI LA IGLESIA CATÓLICA ALABA EL LIBRE PENSAMIENTO Y LA LIBERTAD DE CONCIENCIA QUE SÍ DIFUNDÍA LA REPÚBLICA Y SUS VALORES COMO ASÍ ERAN LA CULTURA,LA CIENCIA,LA IGUALDAD DE SEXO Y TODO AVANCE TECNOLÓGICO,PERO YA VEO YA.....NI PUTA IDEA SEÑOR NI PUTA IDEA, ME APENA SU ENAJENACIÓN MENTAL.
jcamontflor 11 months ago
@IustitiaPax Siempre ha habido tontos del culo como los gilipoyas como tú
bdurruti58 10 months ago
@IustitiaPax Pero vamos a ver buen hombre, el terrorismo contra la libertad del pensar, vamos lo que comúnmente se conoce como fascismo, como sinónimo, creo yo que fue más por parte de los fascistas que de los no fascistas, o sea pienso yo, no sé quién hará más fascismo según tu opinión. En todo caso, la ciencia y el avance tecnológico es lo que fue más vilipendiado, precisamente, a parte de la libertad de expresión, dada la presión moralista de la iglesia. Lee un poco y lo aprenderás.
alvaradico 10 months ago
@alvaradico Sé que las mentiras de este "anti-fascistas." Yo soy un historiador. El progreso científico llegó a la iglesia! Los católicos establecidos universidades. Los terroristas rojos no eran pensadores y científicos. Heisenberg, Copérnico, Louis Pasteur, Padre Gregor Mendel (Reverendo Padre). Sólo unos pocos ejemplos. La Iglesia ha informado aún los españoles. Sólo la Santa Iglesia. No terroristas rojos y liberales falsificadores de la historia.
IustitiaPax 10 months ago
@IustitiaPax Falto mencionar a LeMaitre quien era sacerdote, y ke la hija de galileo era Monja
auricalco 7 months ago
@auricalco ¡Gracias! Georges Lemaître fue un sacerdote y físico. Galileo sólo tiene arresto domiciliario debido a su afirmación "teológica" (anti-bíblica, anti-iglesia). No por su heliocentrismo! >> Copérnico era un canónigo y el cura!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Terrible tragedia para los españoles y parala humanidad esa dolorsísima derrota. El avance tecnológico y la ciencia solo podrán librarnos cuando terminemos con el egoismo y las ambiciones de los cerdos burgueses..
huguitosoul 9 months ago
@huguitosoul Usted es un guerrero de clase, edad. Teoría curiosas! ¿Todavía quieres asesinar a los "civiles"? Asesinos marxistas ..!. Progreso significa: orden, familia, universidad, Creatividad. El estado terrorista izquierda no hay creatividad. Ninguna ciencia. España católica era fuerte, y nacional. Su marxistas y los anarquistas han tenido su día. ¡Abajo la tiranía de la izquierda. Libertad para Europa. Libertad para España. ¡Viva Borbón. Dios bendiga a España!
IustitiaPax 9 months ago
Liberación! Liberación! Viva Cristo Rey y arriba España!
Video: Un verdadero Moviemento NACIONAL y POPULAR!
Gen. Francisco Franco: requiescat in pace!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
el pp será lo q sea según las encuestas q haga sobre sus votantes más adeptos, medio votantes suyos y los q no lo son ; los partidos deben cambiar como la sociedad sino los q conocen más las necesidades, preocupaciones e intereses sociales se la meteran bien; si no ¿cómo iba a seguir el PCE con esas siglas? pocos tras franco y especialmente tras final de la urss iban a votar a un pce; ni el soe radical, ni pce ni falange podrían sobrevivir. Bueno quzas como los batasunos en ayuntamientos.
TheCafesquare 1 year ago
Os equivocáis, la Pasionaria amenazó de muerte a Calvo Sotelo, y a los pocos días le asesinaron, se pusieron a quemar iglesias los socialistas y volvieron a asesinar. Entonces como se esperaba una reacción del ejercito, se fueron a detener a los generales sospechosos, entre los que se encontraba Franco, y en defensa propia, empezó una guerra que no quería Franco, sino que se vio obligado a defenderse. Lo demás que os inventéis los rojos manipuladores es todo mentira... Consultar las hemerotecas
banhopi 1 year ago
@banhopi ¡Muy bien! Comunistas: mentiras! Y la mentira prensa socialista. Y la prensa anglo-americana se encuentra la Costa Este. El mariscal de campo de Franco llegó sólo para la autodefensa. Contra la amenaza más grande contra el bolchevismo. Contra el anarquismo. Y para España, por Dios, por la santa religión católica. Para construir un Estado de bienestar. ¡Viva Cristo Rey. ¡Viva España!
Honra a tus héroes y los santos españoles!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax y tú no serás falangista verdad? jajajajajajajajajajjajajajajaja estás más colgao que la vieja loca facha. cómo apesta esto.......voy a lavarme las manos.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor No soy falangista personalmento. Soy un monarquísta y Católico apostolico romano.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax yo te respeto ¿tú nos respeta? tu iglesia no respeta al individuo,no respeta otras creencias,no es tolerante con el libre pensamiento,tu iglesia es imposición. Tu monarca juró lealtad al movimiento franquista.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor Te respeto como personas. Tú eres mi hermano como una persona. Sin embargo, su ideología de izquierda es asesina, lamentablemente. La Santa Madre Iglesia es así con todos. Sin embargo, la iglesia debe condenar a los asesinos y los errores para que los niños de la iglesia no se pierda. La extrema izquierda / librepensadores mismos son intolerantes y asesinos. Católicos vascos han llegado a un acuerdo con los republicanos, 1936-1939, por cierto. Diferente opinion dentro de la iglesia
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax NO, NO CREO SUS PALABRAS,LE RESPETO COMO PERSONA "Y COMO CREYENTE", LA INTOLERANCIA NO PARTE DEL OBRERO NI DEL CAMPESINO NI DEL COMUNISMO NO,ELLOS NO PUEDEN SER INTOLERANTES POR UNA SENCILLA RAZÓN,ELLOS SON PUEBLO,Y EL PUEBLO QUIERE,DESEA LA PAZ. LA IGLESIA POR EL CONTRARIO,TIENE UNA LARGA TRAYECTORIA DE ASESINATOS Y CON SAÑA. MUY GRAVE.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor COMUNISMO ES ASSESINO.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax CREO QUE TE TIENEN DEMONIZADO EL COMUNISMO AMIGO,NO PRETENDO CONVENCERLE,YA ES USTED MUY MAYORCITO,PERO SI NO FUERA POR EL MOVIMIENTO OBRERO JUNTO CON SU VANGUARDIA EL COMUNISMO,LOS OBREROS ESTARIAMOS CURRANDO DE SOL A SOL COBRANDO UN JORNAL MÍSERO,PERO DE ÉSTO QUE HABLO YA ESTÁ LA DERECHA DEL CAPITAL TACHANDOLO DE SU AGENDA,PRIVATIZAR Y JODER AL OBRERO.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Y VOLVER AL SIGLO XIX . SI ES ESO LO QUE QUIERES??
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor VOLVER AS SIGLO XXI. NO AL STALINISMO, NO A LAS REVOLUCIONES. EL MOVIEMENTO OBRERO SERA SOCIAL Y CATOLICO. NO AL MATERIALISMO, SÍ A LA FAMILIA, LA RELIGION, LA JUSTICIA SOCIAL, LA SOLIDARIDAD, LA CRISTIANDAD. VIVA LA MONARQUIA, ARRIBA ESPAÑA. VIVA CRISTO REY.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax ¿ves como al final eres franquista amigo?,¿dices que eres monarquico?¿arriba españa? yo lo que pienso es que usted ha nacido y se ha criado",porque no educado entre otras cosas porque franco no dió educación ni espiritu crítico a su pueblo eso si lo esclavizó" bajo el régimen franquista.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
Responder a este vídeo...la monarquía señor es del siglo X, ¿volver al siglo X? NOO hombre NOOO, la republica fue futuro,libre pensamiento,avance,ciencia,cultura, y es lo que va a volver a ser,en españa sobra lo arcaico,lo que usted representa es sinónimo de atraso asesinato crueldad y oscuridad,necesitamos luz,conocer las cosas y no que se nos oculten como bajo el régimen totalitario de la iglesia. el materialismo nunca mató a nadie,la iglesia asesinó a millones de criaturas.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor El comunisme y el ateismo: asesinos de biliones de innocentes. Comunismo (revolución): sinónimo de genocidio y crueldad (KGB, Anarquístas). No al anarquísmo. Cristo Rey: futuro por España y todo el mundo. Ciencia: universidades catolicas. Union Sovietíca: ignorancia, propaganda, materialismo, destrucción de la família. Moviemento nacional: por Dios, patria, familia y justicia social. Viva Cristo Rey y arriba España.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax oye estás peor que una regaera,y no perderé mi tiempo en decirte nada así que vayase usted con su dios y su cristo rey y su patria y su justicia social que para justicia social la de CUBA. VIVA FIDEL VIVA LA REVOLUCION.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor VIVA LA CONTRA-REVOLUCIÓN! VIVA CRISTO REY! VIVA LA LIBERTAD VERDERA! ARRIBA ESPAÑA, ARRIBA EUROPA LIBRE. A MUERTE EL COMUNISMO ASESINO!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax es una bendición,y te diré más,desde el vaticano,quien os gobierna vuestra fé,no es el sucesor de dios en la tierra,no,es el sucesor de satanás.y toooodas sus sotanas negras esparcidas por el mundo son sus esclavos fervorosos ,sus más lascivos discípulos que engañan cuando predican la palabra del anticristo. estan al lado del poderoso,bendicen bombas armas soldados que asesinan destruyen la vida,los sueños,escuelas y viviendas.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor Si, los bolchevistas eran asesinos y terroristas. Viva Cristo Rey y arriba España libre y indivisíbile! Viva la Santa Religión!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago 2
@IustitiaPax ezo ezo, que biba er farcismo frankista de franzisco franko!! la cultura frankista eh la mehó curtura que ezizte!! BIBA CRISTO REI !!
QQWEERTTYUUI 10 months ago
@IustitiaPax como una chota. como una regaera,
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax quien eres? la vieja loca de los videos? jajajajajajajajajajajajaja ¿héroes,santos?, los únicos héroes y santos fueron el pueblo español masacrado y asesinados por el fascismo.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@banhopi quien te habrá contao la historia amigo mio quien jajajajajajajajajajajajajajjajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja amos a darle una cru par pecho ome que sa la ganao. joé jajajajajajajajajajajajajaj muy bueno sí señor muy bueno.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
fascistas, sabed que la historia volverá a repetirse,pero esta vez,no venceréis,porque la humanidad respira libertad y socialismo. una vez tuvisteis suerte,pero dos no se repiten.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor
Sí es verdad, cada vez somos más socialistas.. pero de boquilla; sino mira al gobierno socialista de España. Lo que parece que se va a repetir o se está repitiendo mas bien, es la derecha más extrema debido recesiones económicas, paro galopante y la indigente masa de inmigrantes que son perfectos echarles la culpa. Y además ¿a quien te refieres? los causantes de la sublevación ya como que no los pilla nadie: ni unos ni otros son ya los de antes. Vamos a mirar al futuro mejor.
TheCafesquare 1 year ago
@TheCafesquare Vamos,creo que tú no te enteras de que vá la sátira, si te refieres al Psoe, te estas refieriendo a un partido No socialista por supuesto, y traidor de la clase obrera, eso No es socialismo, el poder politico en un sistema capitalista,está supeditado al poder económico que es quien manda,si no lo sabías ya lo sabes.y el Pp es el fiel heredero de las ideas nacionales de franco,falange y rateros que sólo les importa el bollo y el obrero como el muerto al hoyo.
jcamontflor 1 year ago
@jcamontflor Pues eso de q las ideologia izquierda/derecha solo es propaganda y votos;es el mercado quien de verdad pone las reglas dl juego..en eso estoy de acuerdo; pa qué? si así están cómodos: sus votantes en general no están mal del todo, q más dá 3º mundo o las 3 mil viviendas? hay 20 mill de trabajadores y más consumidores. Un gobierno debe buscar estabilidad y en la 2º republica los radicales izquierda ganaron a moderados gracias al apoyo social y se creyeron rusos: inestabilidad
TheCafesquare 1 year ago
I can only imagine the joy of people of Madrid at this moment, when they were free and safe from communist scum, and their ridicolous "republic".
lox12 1 year ago
@lox12 Truly an amazing impression - the National cause against Communism united all: both workers and nobility and clergy and farmers. All against tyranny, all in favour of stability. As Samaranch stated in August 2009: never did Spain have a more tranquil and peaceful era than under El Caudillo, Gen. Franco.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Peaceful????? How do you call the murder of the thousands of people under Franco?? An act of love???
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Freedom and peace come at a price. If you think that combatting guerilla Communists is "murder", you should go protest the anti-Taliban actions of current armies. General Franco never "murdered" thousands of people. I disagree with some of Franco's policies (e.g. on the Basques and Catalonia), but you should deprogramme yourself. You have been indoctrinated with too much Communist and Liberal lies on the Franco era. Franco was a man of peace ánd order.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Defending civilians against Communist and Anarchist mass murderers is not "murder", but indeed an act of love of one's nation. Your view of Franco is wrong and anti-historical. Franco was attacked often, because he did the best for his own country and for his own people - before the interests of international finance or of the communist bloc. You should see how the normal people, farmers, workers and scientists loved the National crusade. See the video.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax He did his best for HIS OWN people indeed. He had a lot of people killed, not for being communist or anarchist, but simply for being suspected of having leftist sympathies or even defending their own country against military rebels. For being republicans, liberals or moderate socialists. His 20% max. rule is a famous example of this. That had nothing to do with justice or a crusade.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Nonsense. After April 1, 1939, Franco's government cleansed the governmental institutions of pro-Republican sympathizers of course, but they were not executed at all. Hundreds of thousands went to France in Red Cross camps and other went to the USA, Soviet Union and Léon Blum's social-democrat France. You should stop repeating your left-wing propaganda knowledge. You try to defend Republican terrorists who raped and murdered nuns and who murdered nationalists WITHOUT process.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax I hope you not saying here that no people were executed in Spain for being (suspected of or related to(!)) left wing activists or symphatisers? I'm not defending terrorists and murderers, that is what you are doing!!! I repeat again that the Franco regime was very repressive in many ways. That does NOT mean that I say the republic was a utopia and everything was perfect there! It is NOT okay to rape and murder people, whether they are nuns, priests, left or right winged!!
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden In 1939 and 1940, numerous court martials were organized against politicians and Republican soldiers and officers involved in units or propaganda leading to the Republic massacres of priests and of other Spanish citizens. Sometimes even those members of the CPE or Unión Marxista were condemned and executed, but these excesses quickly stopped. These excesses were often built on popular consent, and not organized by Franco himself.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden The Republic was "not perfect"? Not everything? The Republic after 1936 was a government which massacred hundreds of thousands of Catholic clergy, monarchist civilians, Falange adherents, farmers and other 'reactionary families' alike. The Republic was a terror regime, and Franco struck it and restored order. In Valle de Los Caídos, Franco even had Republican (if Catholic) officers buried next to him. Franco was a man of honour, not like Communist torturers.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden The Nationalist troops were received everywhere (except in the - Catholic - separatist Basque Region) as liberators, even in Barcelona itself. Despite the excesses. You can view all videos. The Republican regime was built only on the terror of the Anarchists, POUMA, CPE and later of the Cheka itself. The Republic was not democratic at all. It was a phoney "democratic" state like the DPRK (North Korea).
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Spain was split in 2, of course the nationalists were welcomed as liberators by their supportes, just like the republicans would be by theirs and the nazis also were in Austria and Poland. There are videos from that as well.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden No, the Nationalists during the conflict gained the sympathies of a majority of the Spaniards, because the Nationalists did not seek to re-impose a liberal capitalist monarchy, but also imposed the Auxílio Social etc. And the common people saw Franco as their liberator from a Republican regime which after 1936 only stood for chaos, leftist terrorism and random injustice.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Anyway, I don't think we are going to convince each other, you have your view, I have mine. I'm not going to continue this discussion any longer. I did learn 1 (very scary) thing from this discussion though and I want to thank you for that; I agree with Franco on 1 thing! We both wished he had stayed an officer instead of becoming head of state.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden This is not about views. This is about historical truth. About historical facts. You should read Pío Moa, César Vidal Manzanares. Prof. Stanley G. Payne has proven irrefutably, how the left-wing in the West and Protestant anti-Spanish anti-Catholic bias have influenced the view of the conflict. And Payne has proven how the left-wing and the anti-clerical liberals were responsible for the Civil War. The fact that you refuse to answer to argumentation proves your subjectivism.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax I don't refuse to answer to anything. And I don't know how many times already I said I'm not defending the republic, and certainly not the (mass) murders that occured during the existance of the republic. All I'm saying saying is that Franco was not a hero and that there was political violence under his 'command'. Badajoz, Durango, Guernica, bombing of Madrid & Barcelona are also historical facts.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden General Franco was a hero for liberating Spain from Communism and Anarchism. Or do you prefer those left-wing ideological regimes? Of course during the Franco era, the supression of Basque separatism was violent. The rest is left-wing propaganda. Gernika/Guernica was a military target, and the number of victims inflated. War is always horrible though, even just revolts.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@lox12 To be replaced by the psycho Franco who killed thousands and thousands of people. They were 'free' from the communists and emprisoned by the fascists, much worse!
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden No, communists are far, far worse. Soviets would pull the strings, and it would be red hell on earth, and eventually drawn into ww2.
Spain would suffer thousandfold damage compared to civil war.
lox12 1 year ago
@lox12 I guess we will never know what would have been worse. Either way I'm not promoting a communist state in Spain. All I'm saying is that Franco was far from a liberation for Spain.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden General Franco liberated Spain from the threat of Communism and Anarchism. You have not seen the era of 1938. You have not seen your parish priest be executed and be mutilated in cruel ways by so-called "Socialists" and Anarchists and Communists. General Franco is a hero to the majority of Spaniards, even if many today trust the Socialists more, because the young were brainwashed by Marxist teachers in the early 1980s secondary schools.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax I think you are stuck in your right-wing conviction and fear of left. Not for 1 second have I defended the violence against priests or anyone. The spanish civil war was horribly cruel from both sides. There is no excuse for that. Unfortunately Franco won this war and had the chance to exercise a crude regime to anyone suspected of opposing him. That Franco is a hero for most Spaniards is a lie though, most people hate him. Saying he is a hero is a big insult for a large part of the
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden I know you yourself did not defend the cruelties, but the Republican government did. The very constitution of the Republic was anti-Catholic and anti-Christian, and not democratic át áll. The Spanish people democratically wanted Catholicism in the public sphere too, and not the anticlerical campaign of Socialists, Communists, Anarchists and Liberals.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden The Spanish Civil War was fought with fierceness, but humanness by the Nationalist side. And with cruelty by the Republicans. This is demonstrated by Pío Moa and other historians with a clear sight. Once upon a time, Pío Moa was a left-winger and even a Maoist. Without the victory of General Francisco Franco, Spain and Europe would have been lost to civilization.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax You are a bit over the top here 'Without the victory of General Francisco Franco, Spain and Europe would have been lost to civilization.'????? There's civilization without the Catholica church as well. Cela was a Franco supporter who turned to the other side. There's no point in giving examples of people that swapped sides.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden There is no civilization in societies which have rejected Christianity actively. Of course ancient civilizations existed as well, but they were often unhuman in aspects. I meant that Spain and Europe would be lost to Communism without a victory of Franco. Soviet Communism and Communist ideologians are anti-humanitarian.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - I think that usually Franco and the Spanish Civil war is not being assessed objectively. He is either seen as 'fascist' and 'pure evil' fighting against a 'democratically elected government' or admired as a 'saviour of Spain and civilization', who although had some political opponents killed, but they deserved it. I think neither of these pictures is true.
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner I base my opinion not on allegations or sentiment, but merely on facts. I have stated that I know of the Nationalist excesses in revenge from 1939-40 and maybe even up to 1942 or 1943. But after 1940, virtually all executed political criminals were given a fair trial. The victims of the Republicans never got a fair trial. Remember Jóse Calvo Sotelo's death. General Francisco Franco was not a fascist, and never wanted to become the Leader of Spain at all. Just accidentally.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - I am not talking about sentiments, if I based on sentiments I would pobably support Franco without much criticism. I also know about the crimes of the Republicans and I oppose any effort to present them as fighting for the right cause. With few exceptions they were murderers. However, I cannot overlook crimes like the one in Badajoz, which really happened. Even if some crimes were exaggerated or invented, enough real crimes remain.
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner The massacre of 1,400 Republican militia members in Badajoz happened indeed, but in August 1936, during the Spanish Civil War (not after it), and Franco was not even the head of the Uprising of the Nationalists yet. Yagüe was responsible for it. And I can assure you, that this incident was enlarged, because US Reporter Jay Allen sent reports of it to the USA. The murder of 44,000 Catholic clergymen and sacristans etc. was ignored in the American press.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - I am not arguing that the 'incident' waspresented accurately. But even if it was enlarged, it happened. Franco might have not been responsible or initially might have not even known about this, but he already knew that when he appointed Yagüe a minister rather than having him tried for war crimes.
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner You are right. But do you realize that Pilsudski did the same to Soviet troops from the Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1921? Thousands were shot by the Polish Army, other died in POW camps by 1922. Again, I fear that Yagüe intended to execute political criminals and milicians on the spot. He did take official Republican troops as POWs in Barajoz, but those were few. Most executed were milicia members. "Terrorists" without military statute. He feared their partisan activicites.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - The number of Soviet troops who died in Polish captivity is not known. Soviets did not raise the issue at the beginning and the issue became only raised nowadays when it was not longer possible to hide (in Russia) the truth about the Katyn massacre. So Russians had to convince the public that Poles did something equivallent if not worse. Many Soviets did die in the prison camps due to diseases....
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
cont. - Bad conditions were responsible, for sure, but these bad conditions were rather caused by the inability to provide necessary facilities than by any deliberate action. Of course, there were also some prisoners killed deliberately, but the number is uncertain. It looked rather like some uncoordinated actions (sometimes revange) rather than something organized. Nevertheless, when happened it was unacceptable.
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner There are always causes for starvation. Like with Nazi concentration camps (which were inspected by the Red Cross and approved of in September 1944) in early 1945 until May 1945, the collapse of nutrition supplies makes regimes choose to feed their own civilians before detainees. There were executions of Soviet political commissars by Poland too in 1921. Be sure of that. It is well referenced even by Norman Davies. Germany just did that at a larger scale. In a bloody war.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner We should not overlook crimes. Guernica/Gernika remains a propaganda piece from the Republicans and the left-wing international press. Guernica was a defended town, with militar units, and the civil casualties were exaggerated. In fact, many Legion Condor volunteers afterwards did not even remember its bombing. It was insignificant. The early 20th century started with atrocity propaganda by journalists serving politics, rather than vice-versa.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - Notice, I did not mention Gernika. It was popularized, because of the painting by Picasso and became an icon, but I know the truth was different. I have even heard an anegdote (true or not) that Picasso initially painted his picture to honour his friend - torreador who was killed by a bull, but when Gernica was bombed, he decided to dedicate it to the victims.
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - to make it clear, I am happy that it was Franco who won and not the communists. In this sense he did save Spain. But I cannot overlook the scale of repressions. You admitted that he violantly crushed Basque separatism (BTW, most Basques were strongly linked to the Catholic Church and not communists). Also executions of prisoners were not justified. Also his anti-democratic views have to be criticized. He allowed only referenda on minor issues and was againt the elections.
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner Thank you, that is exactly my point. Personally I regret that he won the war, but I can see why you are happy he won. As long as we keep seeing the good AND the bad there is a healthy balance.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Yes, of course. But one should not invent "bad things" which never happened. The West and the left-wing politicians in Europe have invented all kinds of atrocity lies and propaganda against Franco and Spain. We know this from Mr Joop Den Uyl and his socialist hate mongering in The Hague against the government of Spain. Franco liberated Spain, but every civil war brings war casualties with it. Did Stalin bury enemies within his tomb? No. Franco did. A Catholic.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - Here I agree, if someone wanted to bring the case to court he/she should bring the case against both sides. On the other hand it does not make much sense, because most of the perpetrator are dead and you cannot sue dead people. Well, Santiago Carrillo (republican) is still alive...
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner I know of many failed policies and wrong opinions (from my point of view) of General Franco, but Franco knew the fragile order in Spain. His strict regime must be interpreted in this way; he knew what laxity from 1931-36 had led to. The Basque separatists indeed were Catholics and Christian-Democrats, but until 1938 they all allied with the Republican cause, and implicitly accepted the anticlerical mass murders. Not very Christian to do so.But I personally like Basques.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax - Basques had no choice. Spanish nationalists wanted unified Spain. To have autonomy they had to rely on Republicans. Their dilema was tragic, but I fully understand them. I do not know any Basques personally. I was in San Sebastian for several hours and I met one Basque (I think he was Basque) on YT. But I think he blocked me, because we disagreed about Franco. He said Franco was fascist, I said he was antidemocratic, but not fascist. ;)
OlenkaWagner 1 year ago
@OlenkaWagner The Basque Region is difficult. Please notice, that a Basque ethnic nation-state never existed. Nor did Slovakia before its independence in 1939. I do sympathize with Basque culture etc. But the Kingdom of Navarre of old had a Basque majority, but large Spanish-speaking and French-speaking minorities, collectively forming a majority.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Most people "hate" him? You mean, that ex-Republicans hate him. But they are only a loud 20 % Socialist minority. The majority is neutral and apolitical (more like regionalist, like in Galicia), but 40 % of the Spaniards venerate general Franco and his era of order and progress. You think you know every Spaniard? I even spoke to ordinary people in Barcelona who loved the Franco era.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax No, I mean that most Spaniards do not look back positive on the Franco era. Just like you I don't know every Spaniard, but if 40% venerates Franco and his politics I would expect the falange to do better in the elections.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Do you know, that most of the Moviemento Nacional joined the Partido Popular? Not all pro-Franco supporters support the revolutionary social-nationalism of the Falange splinter movements. And Carlism was lost due to Carlos Hugo and his flirts with marxist ideology.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Spanish population, I know descendents from people that were faced with a choice to either defend their government or support military rebels. Not extreme left, never used violence against priests or anyone. Shot years after the civil war against a cemetery wall. Leaving a wife in Spain in the 40s without any means of support, children that never saw their father again, grandchildren that never new their grandpa. I can follow you view that Franco defended Spain against extreme left
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax wing threats, I don't agree with it but I can understand it. But please don't call him a hero, that is a really nasty thing to say and insulting to thousands and thousands of people currently in Spain. Just like Stalin is not a hero for defeating the nazis, he just mass murdered too many people. I'm sure Pol Pot did some good things as well, a hero?? Not for me.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden General Franco was a hero for defending Spain against Communism and Anarchism indeed. He was a hero, and he was a man of honour who even respected his enemies. Of course executions and martial courts in 1939-40 took place against Republicans accused of crimes of war. And many were shot. But you cannot compare Franco to Stalin or Pol-Pot. You are just a biased and ignorant man spouting lies and calumny.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden You cannot blame some incidents or tragedy of a Republican soldier in a unit which committed war crimes, and all officers were shot, on General Franco. This is a war and martial courts. Overall, Franco unlike Stalin and unlike Pol-Pot and other of your left-wing mass murderers, was a pious man who never even wanted to become Leader of Spain. On the contrary, he wished just a military peaceful career.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Thank you for acknowledging that many people were shot after the civil war. There were after 39/40 as well but okay. And to be honest I don't care whether he was pious or what his hobbies or ambitions were... And I'm not biased or ignorant or spouting lies. A bit disappointed that our interesting discussion has to end like that, yes. And for the last time; I'm not defending left-wing or republican violence, not in Spain, not in Russia, nowhere.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Who were after 1940 or 1943? None that I know of. Franco's Spain was an orderly state, not a state with senseless killing of political opponents at all. You mean anti-OUMPA anti-guerilla tactics in Catalonia in 1945? If you oppose left-wing killing and left-wing terrorism, you should have defended the purpose of the Nationalist cause. Despite the excesses of which Nationalist troops were also guilty of, although Nationalists were more civilized than Republican units.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
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markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Much worse? Whát? You think that the authoritarian government of General Francisco Franco, who strove for national reconciliation even with his own former Republican enemies, was "worse" than to be mass-murdered by Bolshevik commisars like in the USSR and Cuba? Spain under Franco was an orderly state: flourishing tourism and economy (SEAT etc.), social welfare, safety on all streets. Today with democratic socialism: prostitution, crime, chaos - soon again Civil War.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Spain under Franco was a terrible state. Where a Russian salad was not even allowed to be called a russian salad because Russia was the enemy. In all countries with a former tolitarian regime (Russia, Rumenia, etc.) you see conservative movements saying in the 'past everything was better'. Be honest, there was a lot of (political) violence in the Franco era. And do you honestly think there was no crime and other problems in Spain then??
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden I agree that some policies of the Franco era were ridiculous and that Franco's treatment of the Basque and Catalan autonomy question created problems. But this is not to be compared with the USSR and its mass murder policy. From 1940 until 1975, Spain was a harbour of peace and economic development in tourism and factories. Of course it took a long time for Franco to reach social welfare levels of Holland and Belgium, but he succeeded in it.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden For all Spaniards, he wanted reconciliation. There was little political violence after 1940 and certainly none after 1945. During the Franco era, tourists and Spaniards could safely walk on the streets and criminals were duly punished. There were no Russian Comsomol plutocrat criminals buying up Marbella and no Romanian Roma and Sinti child prostitution like today. It was a clean state. I am not nostalgic at all, as I am a historian. I just compare. I also admit some problems.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Sorry, but being shot without trial against the cemetery wall for defending the republic is political violence. It happened to a relative in 1943!
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden So? Martial courts and punishment for war criminals was a normal procedure in all countries. The Republican units involved in massacres of religious sisters and the killing of Falange and even very democratic royal CEDA politicians (José Calvo Sotelo!) were all registered and those complicit in Republican massacres, were executed after a military trial in Spain in 1943. Not without trial. That phase ended in Sept. 1939.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Horrible!
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden I know the martial courts, and numerous Republicans were freed and absolved, if they only would leave into Franco and never enter Spain again. Even criminal Republicans were pardonned. But if your relative was a complicit in a crime against humanity (like murdering Catholic seminarians or killing the children of a Falange sympathizer), he was shot duly. This is not about sentimentalism, but about justice. The Republic was a terror regime. Franco's was never.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Jij weet als naïeve Nederlander niets over historische feiten over het Spanje ten tijde van Franco. Ik wel. Als je zo graag een Communistische staat wenst, dan emigreer je toch naar Cuba of Viëtnam! Generaal Franco heeft Zuid-Europa bevrijd van het Communisme en heeft Spanje opgebouwd, zonder zelf ook maar één cent regeringsgeld voor eigen familie en voor eigen gewin te gebruiken. Hij was een nederige politicus. Hij was liever marine-chef gebleven.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Sorry, you don't know me. Don't tell me what I do and don't know. I happen to know a lot about Spain under Franco.And I'm not promoting a communist state. I'm just saying Franco was a disgrace for Spain. He brought Spain to ruins and suppressed the major part of it's population. And why this communism against Franco always?, in the 1936 elections the communists got about 3% (!!) of the votes. Only because Stalin was the only person willing to help the democracy the communists grew.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden What do you know about Spain under Franco? From Socialist sources? From wikipedia or English "historians"? Franco brought Spain to "ruin"? Sorry, that is just a ridiculous statement. Until 1975, Franco succeeded (despite international blockades by socialists and liberals) to make Spain a success story in tourism and construction and industry, giving wealth to many. The Spanish guest workers of 1965 in Holland all went back by 1974, to a wealthy Spain of Franco and Juan Carlos.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax I'll give you the Spanish miracle. Indeed there has been an economic good period under France. You do sound a bit negative on the English historians though. Concerning the Spanish Civil War and the Franco era I believe they are better (at least more objective) than many Spanish historians though. The Spanish historians seem to choose sides always, left or right. Sometimes a bit of distance is better. The BBC made an excellent and objective documentary on the civil war.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden So Franco reconciled with (Catholic) Republicans, rebuilt Spain, created social welfare, created social wealth, tourism, but you still are trying to hate Franco for some Nationalist excesses. While you continuously relativize or deny Republican mass murders. I condemn many aspects of Anthony Beevor and Ian Gibson and other left-wing "historians", because they falsify history. This is defamation of the victims of the decadent-terrorist 2nd Spanish Republic.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden I have a lot of distance, so has prof. Stanley G. Payne. Pío Moa once was a pro-Republican ideologian, but he was confronted with the facts from the Spanish Civil War. And they made him think critically about his own ideology, and now he is a conservative. The BBC? Excuse me? The BBC? This propaganda institute full with anti-Spanish "Black Legend", anti-Catholic and pro-left-wing collaborators? The BBC only since 2009 has become more neutral on internal politics.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Stanley Payne has proven the bias of all "establishment" Spanish Civil War historians. I personally exclude most of Anthony Beevor's work, but even Beevor is a clear British anti-popery sympathizer of the Republican side and an enemy of "Fascism" (which makes him "a good guy" in academicis). Gabriel Jackson and many others like Paul Preston are clear Socialists in every aspect. Hugh Thomas is the only neutral exception. And even he has some prejudices.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Democracy? The Republican government was no democracy. Democracies do not allow the political assassination of opposition leaders and they do not enforce laws against the majority of the people. The 1936 Spanish elections were widely held to have been left-wing frauds, at that time. Even the League of Nations was critical. Anarchists were as violent and bloodthirsty as the OGPU. Read César Vidal. Even Anthony Beevor (left-wing socialdemocrat) admitted the leftists wanted war.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Indeed it was a democracy with problems. Torn apart by violent extremists on both ends.
markvanleeuwarden 1 year ago
@markvanleeuwarden Who started the murdering of "clericalists"? Of the peaceful Renovación royalist-Alfonsist political leader Calvo Sotelo. The death threats against José María Gil-Robles. The killing of peaceful CEDA local democratic politicians by "central" Liberals (Freemasons), Socialists, Social-Democrats, Guardía Civil left-wing officers, Trotskists, Stalinists (the latter only 2 % of Spanish politics)? The Nationalist Uprising was only a logical consequence of state terrorism.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
arriba ESPAÑA!
kalipoo9 1 year ago
tropas nacionales? MENTIRA!! Tropas Fascistas ...eso es la VERDAD
Salmirche 1 year ago
uno de los pocos paises que se libero del comunismo, las imagenes son claras, era españa contra el comunismo y gano españa
masterchris84 1 year ago
@masterchris84 liberar Espana del Communismo? .La dictadura la impuso Franco y los Fascistas no la Republica..Y l el Frente Popular no era communista...fue elijido por el pueblo en las elecciones de 1936 Que elecciones ganaron los fachas? Y vuestro appoyo a Hitler y los Nazis Y viceversa? No te accuerdas o no te quieres accordar?.Goebbels se queda corto con vosotros..Yo pensaba que Goebbels era el rey de la propaganda pero veo que los fascistas espanoles apprendieron bien y lo superaron
Salmirche 1 year ago 2
@Salmirche aki nadie es tonto para no saber que era el marxismo stalinismo contra españa aliada de musolini,hitler y los moros, definitavamente fue el mal menor , ya que a franco nadie lo puede acusar de nazi , porque lo que se repudia de eso es la masacre y perseccucion por causas de ser judios, franco ofrecio ayuda a decenas de miles de judios y nunca permitio que se los lleven o los persigan cuando los protegio.
masterchris84 1 year ago
@masterchris84 Franco offrecio ayuda a miles de judios pero se cargo a miles y miles de republicanos, socialistas liberales, communistas, anarchistas y demas solo porque decian NO al fascismo. y a los curacos...y si al libertad ....asi...no sigas mas con tu propaganda....la suerte que tubieron los fascistas en Espana a la fin de la segunda guerra mundial fue la guerra fria immediata....porque si non, los alliados os hubieran pegado una bofetada y hubieran salindo buffando Franco y compania
Salmirche 1 year ago
Una bomba le habria puesto yo a la maricona de paca.La unica cosa que cumplio en su vida fue su muerte
ruizdealda1985 1 year ago
Fachas Nazi assessinos con la complicidad de la Iglesia....sin verguenzas!!
Salmirche 1 year ago
@Salmirche dicen que la gente normal y decente si puede asustarse y repudiar las matanzas con razon , pero un rojo un comunista socialista progre y demas , debe tener la concha del tamaño del colorado para atreverse a hablar de genocidio cuando su macabra idiologia a cometido los peores genocidios 10 veces mas que hitler .stalin mao polpot ,abimael guzman , hacen ver a hitler un bebe de pecho
masterchris84 1 year ago
@masterchris84 Hitler fue responsable de la muerte de mas de 50 milliones en menos de 5 anos...a ese paso , cuantos mas hubieran muerto en 25 anos mas?
Stalin y Mao fueron assesinos? Es verdad pero no cambia el hecho Franco, Hitler y Mussolini, con la complicidad de la Iglesia lo fuerron tambien
Salmirche 1 year ago
@Salmirche lo siento pero aqui no defiendo y repudio al nazismo y al comunismo, y genocidio es especifico no es guerra ni responsables, es exacto solo por exterminio de gente inocente de una manera calculada y macabra , no en guerra, ni por sus efectos,asi hablariamos de napoleon y nadie lo considera
masterchris84 1 year ago
bravo españa!!!!!!!!!!!!
susaarg 1 year ago
El franquismo asesino a miles de personas, dio un golpe de estado antes un gobierno elegido democraticamente por su ciudadanos. Sabeis lo que hizo el genearl yague en badajoz? Asesino a nada menos que 4000 personas... Por suerte Franco y sus generales fallecieron ya. Por la TERCERA REPUBLICA ESPAñOLA!
LIBERTAD
IGUALDAD
FRATERNIDAD
zipoletas 1 year ago
@zipoletas y lo que hizo el presidente del gobierno arias navarro?? el de franco a muerto, o mejor dicho el carnicerito de malaga con casi 20000 fusilados en malaga ..
Viva españa
Hdmelmejor 1 year ago
@Hdmelmejor se fusiló igual en los 2 bandos
danielvartan 1 year ago
@danielvartan en numero los nacionales fusilaron mas.
ningun fusilamiento tenia que haberse hecho, al fin y al cabo todos luchaban por españa
Hdmelmejor 1 year ago
@zipoletas Mejor dicho,Franco dio un golpe de estado adelantántandose a la izquierda que quería darlo ella como en el 34
danielvartan 1 year ago
uno de los mejores días de España, por fin se acabó la maldita república que estaba aliada con los soviéticos de mierda. Viva la falange
olvoro11 1 year ago
verguenza
lisanecesita1aparato 1 year ago
Hijos de puta, ya os llegará la hora ya.
telondeacero 1 year ago
JAJJA!! me has quitado el comentario de la boca!! todos apuntados por francotiradores!! mentiras de esas nos contaban en la escuela "democrática" aquí en Barcelona... no tenian ganas esas nobles gentes del Madrid de entonces de que se terminara la guerra y, sobretodo, el caos y el desmán en que se convirtió España durante las Repúblicas (en especial, claro está, la segunda...). Me pongo en situación y tuvieron que ser momentos más que emotivos..
VIVA ESPAÑA!!
VIVA NUESTRO PUEBLO!!!!
unpocoharto 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
El pueblo, o los republicanos, luchaban con pasion y honrando a unos principios; en el frente franquista estaban la mayoria obligados a luchar en ese bando.... FRANCO CABRON!! FRANCO FUCK YOU!!
cocainakastil 2 years ago
Francisco Franco: Liberador de España y de los pueblos europeanos!
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
liberador??? te recuerdo que fue el originzador de cientos de muertes (tanto de un bando como de otro).. fue un personaje que no supo respetar unas eleciones votadas por todos los españoles y tuvo a españa presa dirante 40 años de dictadura
cocainakastil 2 years ago
Si liberador! Tu es indoctrinado par las fuerzas marxistas en las universidades occidentales desde 1968. Elecion 1936? Falsificada par los socialistas! Falsificada. Dictadura? No. Autocracia del pueblo español acclamante el suo Caudillo.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
jajajaja Vale! pues no fue una dictadura, fue el adoctrinamiento del pueblo español!! y debemos dar gracias ello!! jajajaja "pa ti la perra gorda"
cocainakastil 2 years ago
!Viva FRANCO! Ahor tendría que venir a ver si quitaba a tanto delincuente y politicucho chupóptero de éste pais.Democracia de mierda,que sólo ayuda a inmigrantes irregulares con el dinero que los dem´s curramos, porque a la izquierda le interesa, sin control.Dios mio, en lo que hemos transformado este pais.Descontrol absoluto.
arriate58 2 years ago