House Passes Healthcare Reform

[FlowerClown]

Somebody here has a God complex.......

You should get into Government, You'll fit right in.

[BattlefieldDoktor]

I've to underline what rewboss said ...

Paying something into a pot and the people who have the damage will get the money ... This is how insurances work ... no matter if it is about a car or health. As long as you don't have a damage then it sounds bad to actually pay for someone else. But once you're having an accident and you can't pay it - or you have to sell your house. At the end it is a question of the price - how much you would have to pay for your safety of health ...

[rewboss]

I live in Germany. The German model is a sort of halfway house -- it's not completely "socialised", and the system is administered by insurance companies. The 15% is not a "tax", it's the state insurance premium.

And it is horribly expensive. It's the worst of both worlds: we have to pay for a state bureaucracy AND the insurance companies' own bureaucracies. Not all NHC systems are the same, and if the govt is clever, they'll make sure they don't repeat other countries' mistakes.

[rewboss]

However, the idea of you paying for me is inherent even in a purely private insurance scheme. The money might not come straight out of your paycheck, but you have to pay it all the same, if you want to be insured. Whether it's tax or private insurance, the end effect is the same: everyone throws something into a pot and those who need to can draw from that pot. The issue is who you can trust to administer the pot properly and fairly.

[HappyCabbie]

I have been doing research on this, but the problem is coming up with responses to your wild allegations such as Germany scrapping their healthcare plan and adopting ours. Now you are suggesting that Senator Reid is giving Senator Mary Landrieu 300 million dollars for her vote.

First it would be illegal to give that much money to a Senator according to campain finance laws so what on earth are you talking about?

[HappyCabbie]

Well after talking with several Germans, something I can do via the internet instead of just reading some random news article. There is no plan to scrap their healthcare and adopt ours.

Now what expert has said that Senator Reid's figures would land the normal person in Prison.

When making claims like this you need to cite evidence.

[FlowerClown]

Thank you for being so negative.

And for being worse at grammar than me. :O)

[DeliriumReal]

that is new to me... since when do they wanna change that (I am from Germany...) would be interesting... do u have any links for me?

[HappyCabbie]

Funny I was able to read the house bill just fine. The Senate bill will take a little longer as I hear it is over 2000 pages. I hope to get to that one later this week. That being said, I am on record for not being a fan of the current legislation. For example the Senate version will pass a tax on Health plans that cost more than 8000 bucks. Thus teachers, firefighters, and police officers might get hit with an extra tax. Will finish this up in the next comment

[HappyCabbie]

As far as Germany wanting to drop their NHC and adopt our system? Any idea where I can look that up. Maybe I need to ask a few Germans about this.

[HappyCabbie]

Just to jump into this, how many other countries have you traveled to and had the chance to see their health care systems first hand?

I already have a good guess on FlowerClown because of the amount of videos he has posted from around the world.

[FlowerClown]

What is bullshit is that I helped pay for 2 wars that cost over a trillion dollars.

Give me Socialism, at least we will get something for our tax dollars and not just killing in our name.

[ismfofbiggestfan]

ok man explain to me what's going on, beucase the youth is so blind right? don't get all ignorant beligerant on me pal, the youth is more intellegent than you. we're the future, you think we don't know it? get your head out of the propaganda and jargon and take in some worth-while information,i'd be happy to direct you to some. i'm not even American, and i will bet my life i'm more of educated on the subject than you are. older folks like yourself make the youth look bad, head outta ass please.

[ismfofbiggestfan]

oh my heavens! those dirty socialist wanna help the unfortunate! how unfortunate!

get real man, we live in the future. it might not be as cool as the 70's thought it was gonna be, but get your head outta your ass.

[verodefacto]

Goddamit! People are complaining that america is going socialist with this bill and i'm complaining that the bill doesn't go far enough! WTF? Have you people(the ones complaining about socialism) ever been to a socialist country?? If this bill is the most we going to get out of these cowards up in congress than is better than nothing!

[ubertytasticSTUDIOS]

were all fucked if this pill passes and goes in front of obama,.....wait scratch that the whole world is fucked cause america has gone socalist

[ralasinchains]

@ubertytasticstudios Hi I align with socialist party, I just want to say Obama isn't even near a socialist, I cant stand his new bill either.

[CoffeehouseSchmuck]

So used to seeing you laying on your left ear, Now at Motel 6 you are laying on your right ear

[mfaulkner12]

Did this one have a public option?

[HappyCabbie]

the senate version has a public option but faces a filibuster that must be defeated.  If the Senate passes it then it must go to conference commitee to work out the differences. When that happens the public option may disappear.

[mfaulkner12]

Depending on the committee. I have no idea on how conference committee members are appointed. We'll see. I have hope, not expectations.

[coolintruddle]

I guess I'm happy for all of you south of the border . Unfortunately, Canada has been dragged through the mud for too long on this issue for me to care anymore . All I want now is for the u.s. government to start paying their electricity bill .

[lacigreen]

love you cabbie :)

[FlowerClown]

Cabbie, you look good and are in a happy mood.

Nice shirt.

Flower

[FlowerClown]

If you can just hold on till 2013 you should be able to get health coverage but it will still cost you and it will still be up to an insurance company if they want to pay out on your care.

Stupid Government. PASS HR676 Single payer / Medicare for all.

China just got single payer for 1 billion people and they did it 1 year.

American GREED is all to blame, oh and there Lobbyists buying off politicians.

Bring back "We the People"

[DemonBiking]

health care works differently in every country

[masticina]

Mmm not sure if the current Bill is worth it. But .. it will shake those private insurance companies up. Those leeches been blocking claims and hicking up rates for to long.

[quakertownjackass]

Nobama

[th3w01fv2]

This is great news!! The way things were going you'd almost think that it wouldn't even pass that first hurdle.

[Hill568]

fuk the pollys

[arequipa1]

this legislation IF it passes will doom america. people who jump up and down and squeal with excitement about this really don't understand it. i have told my senator to filibuster.

[MrKrov]

Doom! Vague prophecies of doom!

[arequipa1]

i can be specific if you'd like. there's nothing vague about it.

[MrKrov]

By all means.

[arequipa1]

okay, well your senator should vote for this tripe if they want to balloon deficit spending, run the private insurers out of business, raise taxes on the middle class (ZOMG!!!!), and completely ruin healthcare as we know it. (i.e. it's no longer what you want, it's what the gov't will give you.) CASE FUCKING CLOSED.

[MrKrov]

We already pay more than twice everyone else. Guess why.

See FedEx.

And?

So you like having a healthcare that's 72nd out of 191 counries?

[arequipa1]

i'm not sure i understand the format of your comment, but whoever told you "72 out of 191" is ridiculous. that's an awful and completely subjective argument.

[MrKrov]

What is subjective about having the US population having worse health by every criteria than 71 countries, including things like life expectancy and infant mortality, by an independent organization?

What is not to understand about the format?

[arequipa1]

because a lot of different factors can go into the crunching of those numbers. to reduce the whole thing down to a simple "72 out of 191" is childishly simplistic.

nothing is wrong with the system. yes people are uninsured, and that's not good. but if you have a government-run system, you will see people denied coverage in the same fashion they're denied today by insurance companies. this is more politically-motivated garbage from the democrats. it will create miles of red tape and bureaucracy.

[MrKrov]

It was by every criteria health of a country is measured by. Unsusprisingly, socialistic countries always did better, regardless of survey.

I did ask you to be specific. Some examples of these "denials".

[arequipa1]

well if we're going by that criteria, i've read numerous comments from people who live in such socialistic countries who complain about their own system and wish they had one like ours. see? it's completely subjective.

denials are inevitable since funds are limited due to the system being government-run. they are not going to allow someone to siphon up resources like a vacuum under socialized medicine, whereas under our current system you can get whatever you want so long as you pay for it.

[MrKrov]

It is most certainly not subjective; how are things like life expectance subjective?

Can you give a statistic or is it just an anecdote?

I asked for examples, not conjecture. There are plenty of socialistic countries to draw from.

So it's only okay to get medical treatment if you can afford it? It's allright that 45,000 die each year because they can't? Because that's what happens now.

[arequipa1]

i'd be willing to bet the US has one of the top life expectancies in the world.

health insurance is not prohibitively expensive. MOST people do have it. under your system, the problem of denial of care is not solved. i didn't want to use this term, but i have to use it in order to make my point: "rationing." obama only wants to raise taxes and massively increase the size of the fed gov't, and that's unacceptable.

[MrKrov]

We're number 34.

Doesn't help those without it, or not enough of it. Doesn't improve the crappy healthcare that is give out.

If you want to continue the point of rationalizing, you have to provide specific examples in countries that have socialized medicine, or your "denials" are simply a scare tactic.

[arequipa1]

you aren't really trying to argue that under a system of socialized medicine, you can get whatever care you like, are you? because it isn't true.

also, to compare what is being proposed in this country to what is currently in place in other countries is a red herring because it depends on the specifics of whatever bill hopefully doesn't pass.

neither system is perfect but obama's system kills the middle class with taxes, expands the fed gov't and doesn't solve anything.

[MrKrov]

But you can get what you need.

So a bill to socialize healthcare can't be compared to any of the many, varied socialized healthcare systems out there?

See, I had already asked about the significance of raising taxes on the middle class and you didn't give an answer.

And the objection to the expansion is based on what?

[arequipa1]

i don't want some bureaucrat deciding what i "need"! come on now.

wait a second, are you really saying raising taxes on the middle class isn't such a bad thing? you aren't really saying that, are you?

[MrKrov]

Strawman. A bureaucrat does not have to be consulted for a procedure in any country with socialized healthcare. That's what the doctor is for.

You can scream "X bad!", but you are going to have be more specific than that.

You tend to drop a lot of things.

[arequipa1]

do you have a job and pay income tax? because your kind gets really excited about spending others' money, but when you actually have to fork over large chunks of your paycheck to uncle sam yourself, you change your tune. i have known many people fitting this description. they usually understand very little and talk too much.

[MrKrov]

Acknowledge the strawman.

Yes. And?

[arequipa1]

i guess then you don't seem to care if your taxes get raised to pay for this nightmare. do you have health insurance?

[MrKrov]

We could compare cost and note evey other socialized healthcare system costs half what it does in the US.

Don't forget: you don't have to pay both more taxes and premiums.

I was waiting for you to ask: not one shred of it.

I'm waiting for you to acknowledge the strawman.

[arequipa1]

well you have a job, why don't you get some health insurance???

"strawman!" -- there you go.

cost comparison is a very tricky subject that transcends youtube comment boxes. the project has to be financed. and by saying you dont have to pay premiums you are acknowledging the total destruction of the private industry, which is also unacceptable.

[MrKrov]

I can not afford the premiums.

See FedEx. See private schools. See more erroneous claims.

[arequipa1]

you have a job. unless you're working part time for $7 an hour, there is health insurance out there for you.

[MrKrov]

So I'm supposed to be able to afford housing, utilities, car/gas, groceries, and health insurance on nearly minimum wage? Need I inform you I live in rural Appalachia? Need I remind you some people aren't middle class?

[arequipa1]

well fair enough. we will agree to disagree. most people are middle class though, and most have some form of healthcare. i love how obama and pelosi propose this as being some sort of panacea. well, they're both idiots and the public is lapping this crap up like my dog laps up my yogurt.

[th3w01fv2]

As a Canadian, I can assure you that it's not how it works. Quite frankly I would suggest that you look at how we are organized thru our governmental sites and see for yourself.

[arequipa1]

why don't you just tell me what i'm wrong about?

also, an american system is not identical to a canadian system.

[rwmtiger]

i hate US big time now. i cant pay for it. i am F???! will, they cant put me in jail. lol!

[MissPickletoes]

Jail, no...but I heard that they WILL impose huge fines on those of us who do not get SOME form of healthcare insurance...or was that changed?

[rwmtiger]

ya. that the problem. if they pass it. people like me be fuck. i still try get a job for 2yr and no one in my town dont seem want to hire. so people like me is f???! i dont need to pay some i dont have the money for. what do they think? money come from tree. as far what i see now. we got hell of lot of A?? in office :(