Full Show - 5/9/11. Ryan budget, Military spending, Religions relationship with authority

[jeffiek]

Stop calling it "defense spending". Its military spending. You're falling for their game of "framing" the subject.

A small percentage is defense. The rest abominable.

[ccam96]

The top teir pays the lowest tax rate in the history of the tax code in this country. The middle class subsidizes your tax deductions, shelters, etc. as they don't have the capital or income to qualify for these very same loopholes. You pay an almost infintesimal percentage of your incomes on FICA and yet you go around hammering states to cut back on Medicaid and push for reductions in Medicare.

Pay your taxes! End the Bush tax cuts, bring back the full estate tax. You people are selfish.

[VexZeez]

Get rid of the corporate tax loopholes. Corporations like Google should pay what they're suppose to not 2.4%.

[jeremybjohn]

@xelenty Are you saying that he shouldn't have been on the show because he holds contradictory viewpoints? Are you saying that he was too boring? Too stupid? Should all hypocrites and all old school authoritarians be disallowed? Will you please verify for me if these are your positions or not. I just want to make sure that I understand correctly.

[xelenty]

@jeremybjohn yes, I'm saying he had nothing useful to say..

[theropingeffect]

I I would like to hear from Logan more.I don't want to listen to the other guests again. Sorry.

[meberic]

Where's Stefan Molyneux???

[mrmailmandudebro]

RT: Fair and Balanced

[gozxdesastros]

They can talk as much about cutting budget or anything about the money spending of the government as they want. As long as the money and credit system wont be changed nothing special is going to happen. And about this las guest. He must be totally insane to give his children the advice to join the military.

[jcase15]

how come no giant forehead of truth?

[MabusZero]

A lovely job today of being non-confrontational yesterday, Adam. While I'm sure we more libertarian/anarchic minded people have our differences with the likes of Logan Mehl-Laituri and many in his and similar organizations, it is important in the struggles of today that we find common cause with allies that we can rely on to defer to some sense of practicality and conscience.

[jeremybjohn]

It is most certainly appropriate for a Christian to take up arms in defense of their spouse, children, or freedom. Resisting an illegal order must start with an individual soldier. Let us likewise take personal responsibility for determining which conflicts are lawful and just, or otherwise. Best that we teach our children all that we know, and best that we realize that the decision is ultimately up to them. Better that they answer for themselves then pass the buck.

[xelenty]

Not sure how useful this religious debate was.. I mean, the focus on the family guy never served in the military, admits that the military has the worst family problems.. but then suggests we send our kids into the military.. And the CO guy says there are some christians that serve and others go CO, with coherent reason as to 'why'?.. man, the inconsistency is more than stark in both these fellas..

[jeremybjohn]

@xelenty While it is true that the messages presented by the guests you mentioned lacked polish, I do not think it was the purpose of the show to flush out every detail in all their glorious minutia.  Such a task would be impossible in a fifteen minute segment anyway. I suspect that much of the inconsistency you mention would fall away if these two fellas had more time to present their cases. If Adam's goal was to bring this discussion to the attention of his viewers; I'd say he did fine.

[xelenty]

@jeremybjohn With respect my point wasn't directed at you, but at Adam and his producers.. 15 minutes is more than enough time for the guests to iron out any inconsistencies. The trouble with the 'focus on he family' chap in particular. Is he will alienate more viewers than encourage, because although he makes some useful points regarding the modern family he then contradicts them by suggesting parents should send their kids to war. This is an aneurysm waiting to happen. He was pompous and wrong

[jeremybjohn]

@xelenty I agree that Mr. Goeglien's position on encouraging his own children to join the military is probably not popular among most of AvtM's viewers. I would be greatly surprised if this episode was the direct cause of any aneurysms. I refuse to fault any anchor for having guests whose views do not match my own. How may I sharpen my own views If they are never challenged? What if an FotF supporter changed their view as a result of the show? Help me to understand your expectations better.

[xelenty]

@jeremybjohn The aneurysm was meant to be a metaphor of course for his contradiction.. However, his views are old hat frankly and whilst some of them may bear re-iterating again.. Sending ones children into a military that clearly has no interest in family values (currently) is a contradiction that nullifies his own position on family values.. At best he's a hypocrite or at worst he truly dislikes his own children, when he takes that position.. He just comes off as an old school authoritarian..

[salo73]

sorry adam, i'm voting with my character every day, but hey, if i may be so proud, i'll say this, i've improved my community a little, oh and VERY EXCELLENT WORK:(): the articulation is excellent, the approach is excellent, the delicacy is excellent, the delivery is incredibly SOLID, as the wise might say, the truth will win out:)(: also, the light in your eyes is brilliant:)

[salo73]

sorry adam, i'm voting with my character every day, but hey, if i may be so proud, i'll say this, i've improved my community a little, oh and VERY EXCELLENT WORK:(): the articulation is excellent, the approach is excellent, the delicacy is excellent, the delivery is incredibly SOLID, as the wise might say, the truth will win out:)(:

[MrMaxBoivin]

Adam, I usually really like the show and that's why I'm really disappointed when , instead of having good intellectual discussion (more Stefan Molyneux), you're serving us some religious bullshit.

[TABRUTAL]

@MrMaxBoivin Just a disclaimer to relinquish any power trolls may have, I am not religious. I am agnostic, but I believe in the freedom of religion as any devout religious person would.

He wasn't really talking about religious "bs". Just because someone mentions religion doesn't mean they are preaching "bs" to you. They were talking about Christianity, sure, but they were not telling you that Jesus is YOUR savior and whatnot. Don't be so defensive against religion.

[MrMaxBoivin]

@TABRUTAL I gess you,re right, I have been a little harsh in my comment. This wasn't really preachy and I believe in religious freedom (but IMO religion is not freedom) but I believe that nobody shouldn't have any privilege granted for any religious reason.

What disappointed me in yesterday show is while they where discussing christian pov on the problem of serving in the military and killing people they weren't discussing real problem like... serving in the military and killing people.

[salo73]

sorry adam, i'm voting with my character every day, but hey, if i may be so proud, i'll say this, i've improved my community a little,

[1ASHKENAZI]

Focus on the family is a Non Profit Corporation ran by PULPIT PROSTITUTES. They're no different than the ADL, AJC and many Non Profits that simply want to destroy the US Constitution.

[1ASHKENAZI]

1) CUT THE $10 BILLION A YEAR IN SECURE FOREIGN AID TO ISRAEL

2) END THE WARS

3) END THE PRIVATE FEDERAL RESERVE in which BEN SHALOM BERNANKE is chairman.

The rest is chump change.

[kmg501]

Good show, wish you had more time.

I'm an atheist but I'm certainly very interested in ethics and the American family which I am completely convinced has been under decades of assault by Cultural Marxists intent on national destruction or at least a type of captivity.

All anyone has to do to prove that to themselves is look at our tax structure and socialist (inhuman) programs. The war machine is just another component of Americans being duped & pushed into a vicious agenda.

-

[salo73]

@kmg501, i do concur, what point i've been trying to make lately is this: THEY HAVE FAILED THUS FAR:)(: it shows the human dynamic is absurdly durable, also the next generation will not know the disgusting aneurysm that is unnecessary bureaucracy:)(: 

[TTT1776]

Focus on the Family is the last thing I ever wanted to see on this show. In fact it's one of the last things I ever wanted to see in any other part of life. I am a Christian and I loath what they stand for.

[benmcfee]

I would like to know if there is any way for non-christians to conscientiously object to killing others for the profit of the elite. Particularly for Atheists and Agnostics. There is a real tendency in both the US and Canada to say that because they don't believe in a higher power, then they: a) have no morals, or b) are not welcome to the same benefits that we grant those believers among us. Can those non-believers in uniform, those who DO oppose the illegal wars, conscientiously object? How?

[miketherevolutionary]

I'm impressed how much discussion there is in just a 30 minute show... the typical discussions on the main stream are usually 3 people talking over each other and nothing really gets advanced. A couple hickups... but overall another great show! When are we going to hear about Sovereign Immunity? And is Adam vs. the Man going to do any road trips on foreign policy? Lot's of people loving liberty around the world!

[cogrn73]

i wonder who cut out the abolish the government part?

[taylor4ronpaul]

Wow the focus on the family guy wants his family to fight in the middle east and potentially die for corporate profits. Awesome. uh..God bless America....I guess??

[cplot]

Why not discuss the People’s Budget? That budget actually avoids the corporate welfare of the Ryan budget and balances the budget by 2021 without raising taxes on the poor or middle class. Plus it cuts the military which is the portion of the budget that ballooned under the last administration. Ryan’s budget pretends to cut the military by imagining how much it could increase and then cuts it from those imagined levels. Even where Ryan cuts it is corporate welfare disguised as false budget cuts.

[cplot]

I have to laugh at Jake suggesting a 15% cut in intelligence spending. The United States has no genuine enemies right now. All of the US entanglements come from our participation in NATOs ambitions to conquer the World. Given the current state of the World,,I find it hilarious that someone claiming to be a small government advocate thinks 16 separate espionage bureaucracies are just the right number of bureaucracies but just 17% too high in expenditures. We could cut by 90% with no danger.

[aircooledvw62]

God should have as much of a role in governing, as the tooth fairy has in regulating your teeth. Religion should stay at home.

[natritious1]

"but but but but" at the end before adam cut him off. My uncle served in the first gulf war, he was part of the initial ground "invasion". he strictly told me to stay away from the military. I however like how you portray the troops Adam. THE MEN THE ARE. not the "bloodthirsty-murderers" some anti-war activists portray them as. keep up this, you've changed my perception.

[MaxStirner4Lyfe]

@natritious1 There are a little of both; the real issue is "should there be soldiers paid with stolen money" not "are soldiers monsters or humanitarian greater-good sacrificers."

[MadXMax187]

@MaxStirner4Lyfe I agree but we have the largest mercenary army in the world, for every GI overseas we have 3 private sector contractors who get paid "cost plus" and purposefully waste resources and supplies for more government welfare. The mercenary thugs and use of chemical/biological/radioactiv­e weapons are main reason America is seen as so brutal, not to mention the terrible domestic human rights abuses. Either way its not the troops fault, most of them are brainwashed into it.

[MaxStirner4Lyfe]

@MadXMax187 Good points.

[kimshady4u]

“When I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing.” —Dr. Ron Paul

[popomp1]

nothing in the bible tells you anything is wrong with war-- or defending yourself the only time the bible talks of disarming is after the second coming in Luke 22:36 Jesus tells you to be armed with a sword or a gun in todays terms-- Deuteronomy 20 tells you that a war must be declared but to say its not Christian to fight for your country is wrong

[watcher8o]

@popomp1 James 4 reads:

1From whence are wars and contentions among you? Are they not hence, from your concupiscences, which war in your members?

2 You covet, and have not: you kill, and envy, and can not obtain. You contend and war, and you have not, because you ask not.

Also, Christ said: "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword." This would be relevant to our military personnel as they literally live by the sword, earning a living, not out of defense but in an offensive capacity.

[popomp1]

@watcher8o your kidding right thats your response james 4 -- among you is referring to fellow believers not the world -- why not quote james 4:4 4You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God-- no where in the bible does it say it is wrong to defend yourself-- and trying to bring peace to the world before Christ second coming is just wrong

[watcher8o]

@popomp1 I didn't say self defense was wrong, and neither did the bible verse I quoted. James 4:1-2 is basically just stating the root of war is internal to the natural man and we are called beyond that as citizens of the supernatural realm.

[popomp1]

@watcher8o I am against the wars we are in now do not get me wrong but we need to be armed -- I do think it is Christian to kill a enemy -- The Bible says you should not Murder -- and I agree that is wrong but the Bible is very Clear Defending your nation is a good thing --

[taylor4ronpaul]

blah blah blah im a christian warrior blah blah

[OhNoyate]

not quite an outright recruitment drive

[watcher8o]

Dear Tim Goeglein: 

"I saw in the whole Christian world a license of fighting at which even barbarous nations might blush. Wars were begun on trifling pretexts or none at all, and carried on without any reference of law, Divine or human"

~ Hugo Grotius, 1583-1645

[watcher8o]

Ann Coulter in 2006: "As for catching Osama, it's irrelevant. Things are going swimmingly in Afghanistan."

[jetlrn]

Timothy Goeglein, aka "Orville Douchenbacher" cracks me up.

[watcher8o]

The main thing to remember about our national debt and the taxes we pay is this:

Every tax dollar goes to paying off the INTEREST on the debt. It isn't going to government services or protection or infrastructure, as promised. That money goes directly to the banksters.

Every dollar that comes back from the Federal government in the form of govt. employee salaries, grants, and other assorted hush money is newly borrowed from the same banksters. It's NOT the same money you paid on April 15th.

[ShoveTyranny]

Amazing how politicians are always talking about cutting the US programs (I actually agree with cutting them as a libertarian) but never once talk about cutting foreign aid to places like Israel. We're in a position where politicians would rather cut Medicare and spending towards US citizens than touch funding to Israel. What an example of the power of lobbying and special interest.

[edersonh8me]

@ShoveTyranny Maybe that's because U.S. and the americans are OWNED by the Jews...

[watcher8o]

Anyone who advocates paying off "our debt" through taxation is either ignorant or working directly for the banks that are fleecing us.

First, it isn't "our" debt, because it isn't my debt. I doubt it's my neighbor's debt.

Secondly, "our" elected officials forced us into this debt. It's the debt of a government that looks to enslave us all, and that is an illegitimate government based on the Constitution.

Let's look to Iceland for an effective means of eliminating national debt.

[dasdeck]

@watcher8o so much is true, but how differentiated will china see that if "we" say : " no, screw you, this is not "our" debt, go talk to bill george and barack" ;) and all the other people around the world "we" owe money? Im aware that a lot of this debt is fraudulent from a natural law perspective, but not all of it. i'm from germany, so i'm not part of your "we" , but the german "we", as part of the empire, (will) face similar problems obviously.

[dasdeck]

of course i'm not advocating just giving in. just being realistic about possible solutions :)

cheers!

jm

[KollinC]

If Ron Paul wins ill get his name tattooed on my ass and streak across the White House lawn