why does he use Lain as an example. Terrible example because then people ask "why didn't the R1 release have the anti-american feeling to it". Ugh.. I know what he's saying, but don't use Lain, because then peopel go "I want to watch fansubs, it's better duhhh!" Sigh...He should use some other example, where he fansubbers got it wrong, but the R1 kept it in tack, thus proving his point a little better.
Why not cite a fansub inaccuracy from something more recent, something that -doesn't- scream, "I haven't seen a fansub since 1998"? Transport-stream raws with Japanese closed-captions = almost as good as having the recording scripts.
And regarding SEL, I'd much rather deal with fansubbers' honest mistakes than a company making deliberate omissions and misrepresenting their translations as professionally accurate, which appears to be the case for Pioneer's SEL.
It's hard to complain about fansubs ever being inaccurate, because even if they are, /they're free/. And I think that's an important point. I don't think it's too much to ask that the official product that I pay for does it properly, no? If fansubbers get it wrong, big deal. No loss, no gain. If ADV gets it wrong, then I care. In that situation I lose.
The question wasn't about anime being free, it was about subtitle accuracy. I was saying that pointing out that when fansubbed anime subtitles are occasionally wrong, who cares. When official subtitles are wrong, then it matters very much, since you've paid for it. You had to invest in it. It's pretty terrible when you have to pay for a product that isn't any better than someone doing it for free can make it.
You do realise that offical translators have many proof readers and actually work with the Japanesse companies, fansubs actually have a couple of collage kids who have a Japanesse dictionary. Of course there are some companies that do rush jobs and do piss poor versions thats why you should read up on a realse before you by it, same with any foreign film.
That's the problem in particular. Companies like ADV have real official translators, and as we find here, they still mess up. And we pay for the mistakes. If a college kid fansubbing something makes a mistake, it doesn't cost me anything anyway. (that's not an argument for downloading fansubs, mind you, as I'm not trying to make one) Perhaps the best option we can come up with is to buy the anime, leave it unopened, download the fansub, and then watch it. (And I've done just that before)
I don't see your Logic that fansubs are free so it equals more acurate,real companies hire many translators you have had years experiance and often check things out with the creators. What I ment is that there is a lot explotacion companies who churn out cheep shit but the professional companies do a proper job. Do you honestly think some collage kid and his friends have more knowlage that expert translators.
The problem is that companies like ADV don't always want to, or can't do an exact translation (like with SEL, where they didn't want to do an exact translation because Americans might be offended by what was /really/ being said) Take Abenobashi Mahou Shoutengai, for example. Their subtitling job was horrendous. I bought it anyway, but I watch the fansubs for it. Professional companies don't always do a good job. Sometimes official subs are fine, even great, but that's not the issue here.
I happen to know for a fact that all changes in Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden were done with the blessing of its creator. Why does 100% accuracy matter so much..? Shouldn't the fact that the industry is in trouble matter MORE to you? If it goes down, there won't BE any anime to fansub -.-
thats because its no use watching naruto shippuuden if the subs suck. I mean they didn't translate the opening the and ending japanese karaoke songs so u can't enjoy the music. The censored words like "fuck" "asshole" "motherfucker" "dickhead" and other words and replaced it with words like bastard and other stuff and especially the word bitch they have also censored i mean whats the use of anime subbed if its not even subbed properly.
You do realize that most of the time those swear words are NOT actually being said by the characters and are just added by the fansubbers to spice up the text right? .__. Cuss words sell, and fansubbers know this. Why not add something to the script if it will appeal to people who somehow think those words make something more mature? =/
thats because its no use watching naruto shippuuden if the subs suck. I mean they didn't translate the opening the and ending japanese karaoke songs so u can't enjoy the music. The censored words like "fuck" "asshole" "motherfucker" "dickhead" and other words and they also censored the word bitch and replaced it with words like bastard and other stuff. The timing is also off and sometimes the english doesn't even make sense.I mean whats the use of watching anime if its not even subbed properly.
look at the age group naruto is aimed for. the cut version is rated 13 and up, of course they won't drop the F bomb in the translation. along those lines, a word like 'teme' can be translated as asshole, bastard, dickhead because it all means the same thing; it's to demean the other person.
its no fun watching naruto if the words r censored. And also it is shown online on crunchyroll and the viz media website. And there is no rating on it. The dub naruto on television is censored but i'm ok with that since viz is releasing uncut episodes of naruto on dvd. With engish dub and jap dub and subtitles and those subtitles r fantastic. I don't know the reason to y can't viz sub shippuuden properly like they did with naruto on the dvds.
on the viz site, they rate the cut version as teen (13 and up on most sites) while the uncut version is rated older teen (16 and up). i think with shippuden they're going to wait and see if it's worth coming out with the uncut version.
i'm talking about the naruto shipuuden episodes which viz subs and puts them on the viz site and crunchyroll. They sub it very badly. The english most of the time doesn't make sense the timing is off in most cases, they didn't sub the japanese opening and ending karaoke and they censored a lot of words. Try comparing them with the dattebayo subs than you'll see
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I like how you make up shit. Kishimoto would never approve any changes in his own product. So by saying you know for a fact he did is just plain bullshit.
Prove Kishimoto would never approve the changes. I don't recall ever hearing about him pitching a fit over any changes. As a writer, I sure as hell would have. IF the changes were made withOUT my blessing. But I have heard many times from random Naruto fans how Kishimoto chose the voice actors for the dub, and approved changes. Prove me wrong. Do it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
You proved yourself wrong already. I was pointing out what you said was bullshit. You don't know for a "fact" that he approved any changes. You said it yourself. You heard from "fans" not official members of Studio Pierrot or Shounen Jump. So there you have it. You're proven wrong.
Things are not changed in animes without the approval of its creators, and rights holders. You fucking dumbass. If changes had been made without approval, SOMEONE would have flipped out, wouldn't they? Well? Have they?
Obviously any and all changes were approved. You stupid shit. "Kishimoto would never approve any changes in his own product." How the hell do you know that to be true? I really like how you make shit up, loser.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The point is you said the word "fact" You don't know for a fact that he approved everything because you do not know Kishimoto himself. Also mangaka rarely have anything to do with anime adaptations. All they give the animators is some guidelines to follow and very rarely some rules.
You're a stupid shit. You don't know shit about shit, and you should drop off the side of the earth. Because all you have to look forward to is living on your mothers couch watching anime and dreaming up sex scenes with random anime characters, as you grow further grotesque, and make up bullshit things about manga creators like you actually KNOW them or something. You pathetic loser.
Funny thing is you call me pathetic yet you got all your friends to give me thumbs down. The really funny thing is you said I made up shit when you're the one who said you know for a FACT he approved the changes. The irony is hilarious.
Only stupid fucks like you have 'friends' on youtube. The simple fact that changes were made to Naruto is proof enough that your darling Kishimoto approved the changes, dick-lick. Changes can't be made without his approval. You did make up shit. You don't know Kish, and you stated that he'd never approve changes (like you know it for a 'fact') without any proof to back up that claim. By your way of thinking, shouldn't you flame yourself?
@DONGERDUCK o because they said more curse words in it I do not thinks so I rather get it subbed by a professonial company like viz them someone out there in street that think he know more japaense and dattebayo subs are not accurate
So Media Blasters edited a sex scene out of the Kite OVA. It wasn't until people compared it with the fansub and noticed the missing portion that Media Blasters got caught with their pants down and had to admit to it.
I don't have much of a problem with the edit, just the fact that they didn't tell anyone so that puppy would sell.
I am a fansubber myself, and there are 2 types of fansubbing groups, the "OMGZ WE R GOTA GET THIS OUT IN 4 HOURZ!", called speedsubs, which are pretty much what he described in theis video. There are quality groups who will take time to make sure they have a good translation, correct spelling, timing, and everything. Just know there's more out there.
Greg Ayres is just trying to say that official subtitles are generally not any less accurate than fansubs. He never said that fansubbers don't try to make quality works.
so the next time someone makes a half-assed argument about american VA's insulting the seiyu's work as a character they'll remember that the japanese have a large say in casting, which is what I've known and been telling people for ages.
"Did you pick up on the anti-American sentiment in Serial Experiments Lain? The fansubbers didn't! O-ho ho... It was so obvious to our trained translators! Those lousy fansubbers messed up big time, huh??"
"In regards to the official release, it too lacked the translation of the anti-american sentiment inherent to the series, because we wanted you to buy it, so we just took it out. We didn't want you to feel insulted. But /we/ knew it was there..."
And that's where the sentiment of fansubs being more accurate comes from. Fansubs have no reason to not have an accurate translation because it's not a commercial release. Of course, that doesn't mean fansubs are generally better, but both formats have their own set of problems.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If Greg Ayres had ever encountered a fansubber, he would know we have no reason to limit our translations. Fansubbing is not one person who goes "I think that's right", it's a very long (in most groups) process, which involves the translation being checked, and producing a much better quality episode then a dub.
retards serial experiments lain subbers didn't pick up on it because they where subbing as it was released and weren't sure if they should add the notes. Then when they realized they fucked up it was too late. The DVD subs are more accurate however as they saw the whole series first and got a better idea of how to subtitle it and it was more consistent.
that i don't get but cause then why would japanese companies give their show to 4kids who will totally destroy the show not to mention their cast on it?
Toei had no idea that 4Kids would end up ruining One Piece here, stateside. Apparently 4Kids did get the show on TV, edits and all, but people didn't like it, and the merchandise didn't sell well at all, and so after 3 years, Toei finally pulled the anime license from 4Kids. It's not like Toei knew of its bad reputation for American-izing shows, but still, at least Toei did something about the show so that it can be enjoyed here stateside.
man 4Kids ruined so many good shows but I do understand why but they could have esaily just taken kids animes and keep the others to funimation or ADV films
search "fansub documentary part 5" and see just how bad fan subs translations are.
mrzisawesome 7 months ago
As crappy as 4Kids may make their shows, I still enjoy it.
Xundoshi 2 years ago 4
@Xundoshi 4kids rule
mrzisawesome 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
why does he use Lain as an example. Terrible example because then people ask "why didn't the R1 release have the anti-american feeling to it". Ugh.. I know what he's saying, but don't use Lain, because then peopel go "I want to watch fansubs, it's better duhhh!" Sigh...He should use some other example, where he fansubbers got it wrong, but the R1 kept it in tack, thus proving his point a little better.
prede89 2 years ago
As I've said before, it'd also be better to use an example that doesn't scream "I haven't seen a fansub since 1998 when we traded VHS tapes!"
Zalis116 2 years ago
Why not cite a fansub inaccuracy from something more recent, something that -doesn't- scream, "I haven't seen a fansub since 1998"? Transport-stream raws with Japanese closed-captions = almost as good as having the recording scripts.
And regarding SEL, I'd much rather deal with fansubbers' honest mistakes than a company making deliberate omissions and misrepresenting their translations as professionally accurate, which appears to be the case for Pioneer's SEL.
Zalis116 2 years ago
it's so hard to find box sets DX
xOxTEHCOOKIExOx 3 years ago
It's hard to complain about fansubs ever being inaccurate, because even if they are, /they're free/. And I think that's an important point. I don't think it's too much to ask that the official product that I pay for does it properly, no? If fansubbers get it wrong, big deal. No loss, no gain. If ADV gets it wrong, then I care. In that situation I lose.
poperuku 3 years ago
But by that being free you are taking money away from the creators and hurting the industy, I mean you do want Anime to still be produced right?
almanacofsleep 3 years ago 4
The question wasn't about anime being free, it was about subtitle accuracy. I was saying that pointing out that when fansubbed anime subtitles are occasionally wrong, who cares. When official subtitles are wrong, then it matters very much, since you've paid for it. You had to invest in it. It's pretty terrible when you have to pay for a product that isn't any better than someone doing it for free can make it.
poperuku 3 years ago
You do realise that offical translators have many proof readers and actually work with the Japanesse companies, fansubs actually have a couple of collage kids who have a Japanesse dictionary. Of course there are some companies that do rush jobs and do piss poor versions thats why you should read up on a realse before you by it, same with any foreign film.
almanacofsleep 3 years ago
That's the problem in particular. Companies like ADV have real official translators, and as we find here, they still mess up. And we pay for the mistakes. If a college kid fansubbing something makes a mistake, it doesn't cost me anything anyway. (that's not an argument for downloading fansubs, mind you, as I'm not trying to make one) Perhaps the best option we can come up with is to buy the anime, leave it unopened, download the fansub, and then watch it. (And I've done just that before)
poperuku 3 years ago
I don't see your Logic that fansubs are free so it equals more acurate,real companies hire many translators you have had years experiance and often check things out with the creators. What I ment is that there is a lot explotacion companies who churn out cheep shit but the professional companies do a proper job. Do you honestly think some collage kid and his friends have more knowlage that expert translators.
almanacofsleep 3 years ago
The problem is that companies like ADV don't always want to, or can't do an exact translation (like with SEL, where they didn't want to do an exact translation because Americans might be offended by what was /really/ being said) Take Abenobashi Mahou Shoutengai, for example. Their subtitling job was horrendous. I bought it anyway, but I watch the fansubs for it. Professional companies don't always do a good job. Sometimes official subs are fine, even great, but that's not the issue here.
poperuku 3 years ago
yeah agree like the naruto shippuuden subs done by viz media they r terrible. Dattebayo subs were 100% accurate and enjoyable to watch.
DONGERDUCK 2 years ago
I happen to know for a fact that all changes in Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden were done with the blessing of its creator. Why does 100% accuracy matter so much..? Shouldn't the fact that the industry is in trouble matter MORE to you? If it goes down, there won't BE any anime to fansub -.-
rascapinto 2 years ago
thats because its no use watching naruto shippuuden if the subs suck. I mean they didn't translate the opening the and ending japanese karaoke songs so u can't enjoy the music. The censored words like "fuck" "asshole" "motherfucker" "dickhead" and other words and replaced it with words like bastard and other stuff and especially the word bitch they have also censored i mean whats the use of anime subbed if its not even subbed properly.
DONGERDUCK 2 years ago
You do realize that most of the time those swear words are NOT actually being said by the characters and are just added by the fansubbers to spice up the text right? .__. Cuss words sell, and fansubbers know this. Why not add something to the script if it will appeal to people who somehow think those words make something more mature? =/
CeruleanRogue 2 years ago
they do they do. Naruto used the word bitch many times in-front of guren and but viz never showed it.
DONGERDUCK 2 years ago
thats because its no use watching naruto shippuuden if the subs suck. I mean they didn't translate the opening the and ending japanese karaoke songs so u can't enjoy the music. The censored words like "fuck" "asshole" "motherfucker" "dickhead" and other words and they also censored the word bitch and replaced it with words like bastard and other stuff. The timing is also off and sometimes the english doesn't even make sense.I mean whats the use of watching anime if its not even subbed properly.
DONGERDUCK 2 years ago
look at the age group naruto is aimed for. the cut version is rated 13 and up, of course they won't drop the F bomb in the translation. along those lines, a word like 'teme' can be translated as asshole, bastard, dickhead because it all means the same thing; it's to demean the other person.
erieiseerie 2 years ago
its no fun watching naruto if the words r censored. And also it is shown online on crunchyroll and the viz media website. And there is no rating on it. The dub naruto on television is censored but i'm ok with that since viz is releasing uncut episodes of naruto on dvd. With engish dub and jap dub and subtitles and those subtitles r fantastic. I don't know the reason to y can't viz sub shippuuden properly like they did with naruto on the dvds.
DONGERDUCK 2 years ago
on the viz site, they rate the cut version as teen (13 and up on most sites) while the uncut version is rated older teen (16 and up). i think with shippuden they're going to wait and see if it's worth coming out with the uncut version.
erieiseerie 2 years ago
i'm talking about the naruto shipuuden episodes which viz subs and puts them on the viz site and crunchyroll. They sub it very badly. The english most of the time doesn't make sense the timing is off in most cases, they didn't sub the japanese opening and ending karaoke and they censored a lot of words. Try comparing them with the dattebayo subs than you'll see
DONGERDUCK 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I like how you make up shit. Kishimoto would never approve any changes in his own product. So by saying you know for a fact he did is just plain bullshit.
DrunkSamurai 2 years ago
Prove Kishimoto would never approve the changes. I don't recall ever hearing about him pitching a fit over any changes. As a writer, I sure as hell would have. IF the changes were made withOUT my blessing. But I have heard many times from random Naruto fans how Kishimoto chose the voice actors for the dub, and approved changes. Prove me wrong. Do it.
rascapinto 2 years ago 11
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You proved yourself wrong already. I was pointing out what you said was bullshit. You don't know for a "fact" that he approved any changes. You said it yourself. You heard from "fans" not official members of Studio Pierrot or Shounen Jump. So there you have it. You're proven wrong.
DrunkSamurai 2 years ago
Things are not changed in animes without the approval of its creators, and rights holders. You fucking dumbass. If changes had been made without approval, SOMEONE would have flipped out, wouldn't they? Well? Have they?
Obviously any and all changes were approved. You stupid shit. "Kishimoto would never approve any changes in his own product." How the hell do you know that to be true? I really like how you make shit up, loser.
rascapinto 2 years ago 14
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The point is you said the word "fact" You don't know for a fact that he approved everything because you do not know Kishimoto himself. Also mangaka rarely have anything to do with anime adaptations. All they give the animators is some guidelines to follow and very rarely some rules.
DrunkSamurai 2 years ago
You're a stupid shit. You don't know shit about shit, and you should drop off the side of the earth. Because all you have to look forward to is living on your mothers couch watching anime and dreaming up sex scenes with random anime characters, as you grow further grotesque, and make up bullshit things about manga creators like you actually KNOW them or something. You pathetic loser.
rascapinto 2 years ago 12
Comment removed
Hypeathon 2 years ago
Funny thing is you call me pathetic yet you got all your friends to give me thumbs down. The really funny thing is you said I made up shit when you're the one who said you know for a FACT he approved the changes. The irony is hilarious.
DrunkSamurai 2 years ago
Only stupid fucks like you have 'friends' on youtube. The simple fact that changes were made to Naruto is proof enough that your darling Kishimoto approved the changes, dick-lick. Changes can't be made without his approval. You did make up shit. You don't know Kish, and you stated that he'd never approve changes (like you know it for a 'fact') without any proof to back up that claim. By your way of thinking, shouldn't you flame yourself?
rascapinto 2 years ago 6
@DONGERDUCK o because they said more curse words in it I do not thinks so I rather get it subbed by a professonial company like viz them someone out there in street that think he know more japaense and dattebayo subs are not accurate
cickmore12 1 year ago
the anime ayres mentions at 3:09 - 3:11. what anime was it?
element74 3 years ago
Well,in the scene your talking about,he says,"Le
Femme Nikita",which isn't an Anime,but a live-action French movie.
504NOSON 3 years ago
So Media Blasters edited a sex scene out of the Kite OVA. It wasn't until people compared it with the fansub and noticed the missing portion that Media Blasters got caught with their pants down and had to admit to it.
I don't have much of a problem with the edit, just the fact that they didn't tell anyone so that puppy would sell.
wartarot 3 years ago
I am a fansubber myself, and there are 2 types of fansubbing groups, the "OMGZ WE R GOTA GET THIS OUT IN 4 HOURZ!", called speedsubs, which are pretty much what he described in theis video. There are quality groups who will take time to make sure they have a good translation, correct spelling, timing, and everything. Just know there's more out there.
freakinowndnub 4 years ago 5
Greg Ayres is just trying to say that official subtitles are generally not any less accurate than fansubs. He never said that fansubbers don't try to make quality works.
Fireouch 4 years ago 5
so the next time someone makes a half-assed argument about american VA's insulting the seiyu's work as a character they'll remember that the japanese have a large say in casting, which is what I've known and been telling people for ages.
kaoishii 4 years ago 4
"Did you pick up on the anti-American sentiment in Serial Experiments Lain? The fansubbers didn't! O-ho ho... It was so obvious to our trained translators! Those lousy fansubbers messed up big time, huh??"
poperuku 4 years ago 4
(then later)
"In regards to the official release, it too lacked the translation of the anti-american sentiment inherent to the series, because we wanted you to buy it, so we just took it out. We didn't want you to feel insulted. But /we/ knew it was there..."
What kind of bullshit argument is that?
poperuku 4 years ago
And that's where the sentiment of fansubs being more accurate comes from. Fansubs have no reason to not have an accurate translation because it's not a commercial release. Of course, that doesn't mean fansubs are generally better, but both formats have their own set of problems.
Fireouch 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If Greg Ayres had ever encountered a fansubber, he would know we have no reason to limit our translations. Fansubbing is not one person who goes "I think that's right", it's a very long (in most groups) process, which involves the translation being checked, and producing a much better quality episode then a dub.
freakinowndnub 4 years ago
Good point. He's speaking out of both sides of his mouth and cherry picking what fits his argument.
wartarot 3 years ago
@poperuku Yeah, really. They have a name for that, it's censorship.
RockoMyler 1 year ago
retards serial experiments lain subbers didn't pick up on it because they where subbing as it was released and weren't sure if they should add the notes. Then when they realized they fucked up it was too late. The DVD subs are more accurate however as they saw the whole series first and got a better idea of how to subtitle it and it was more consistent.
anonpoolaidsect 4 years ago
Excuses, excuses. If it was too late they could always redo the subs. Did they do that?
Fireouch 4 years ago
Right at the end was he talking about Johnny Yong Bosch taking over for Yuri Lowenthal in Eureka 7?
Nhusky 4 years ago 2
yeah i think
Shinnoh4 4 years ago
that i don't get but cause then why would japanese companies give their show to 4kids who will totally destroy the show not to mention their cast on it?
Megami33 4 years ago
Toei had no idea that 4Kids would end up ruining One Piece here, stateside. Apparently 4Kids did get the show on TV, edits and all, but people didn't like it, and the merchandise didn't sell well at all, and so after 3 years, Toei finally pulled the anime license from 4Kids. It's not like Toei knew of its bad reputation for American-izing shows, but still, at least Toei did something about the show so that it can be enjoyed here stateside.
BrakusJS 4 years ago
Well alright I understand that. Well thank god they fix that then :D
Megami33 4 years ago
that's mentioned in part 6. The Japanese companies are the ones who decided most of the edits.
arx7arbalest 4 years ago 4
man 4Kids ruined so many good shows but I do understand why but they could have esaily just taken kids animes and keep the others to funimation or ADV films
Shinnoh4 4 years ago