Steffi was 1 of the Greatest Champions of all time, however Steffi's best would not have been better than Venus's best! Venus arguably is the Best wta mover to ever play the game? In 1999 Vee still hadnt peaked with her power game (2007 US Open hit a 129mph serve)....
hoffenheim talks about how graf was better than ever at the 94 ao yet she lost a few months later to mary peirce at the fo.i wish seles was around to kick grafs ass at the 94 ao like she did in the 93 ao final.seles had 7 grand slams by age 18 and graf had only 2.you do the math as to who was on there way to winning more grand slams.
You say Seles at the AO 93 was better than ever yet she lost to a 36-year-old Navratilova three weeks later. Never ever in the history of women's tennis did the #1 player lose to an older player.
Yes, Seles holds indeed some nice world records (eg. highest loss ever of a #1 player in a slam final, worst H2H record ever against her main opponent).
@Hoffenheim08 im not wrong i said by age 18 not over the age of 18 you fool.and i provided video proof onyoutubefro cbs unlike you who provide lies.either way seles had way more grand slams by age 18 than graf.seles didnt care about the smaller tournaments.everybody knows this she lost to sabatini weeks before in rome then beat her at the french in 91 and 92,she lost to capriati too in 91 before beating her a few weeks later at the french.you know nothing.
You need some serious fact checking. You say never in the history of women's tennis did the #1 lose to an older player? Steffi was ranked #1 when she lost the 1987 US Open final to Navratilova....she was ranked 1 when she lost the 1991 US Open SF to Navratilova too. Not to mention many, many other matches lost by various number 1's to older players '85 and '86 french open finals.. older Christ Evert beat #1 Navratilova in each final...there are many more as well..
Graff said later that this was the toughest match for her to win at Wimbledon that wasn't a final or semi... She also said the Venus will win this title very soon. .. The next year boom Venus is Champion!!!
I can't stand Venus's screaming. It's beyond grunting, it is screaming. She even screams on volleys which shows me it's not the amount of effort she's putting into her shots. It's so satisfying to see her scream/shriek and miss that volley by five feet at 3:49.
Wow... impossible to see any video that Graf is in without her retarded fanatics spamming the chat box.
Its like if they scream hard enough, everyone will eventually agree with their "points" (also known as statistics that have been carefully selected and manipulated for a given purpose).
Where did I mention Seles? I would say retarded is a word that better befits someone who replies to imaginary arguments.
Not to say Seles was not great, she was. But sadly she was robbed of her chance.
I have on previous occasions explained to you why Martina is the greatest female player of all time, so if I have any "universe" its Navratilovian :D (btw, using my crystal ball, I am going to guess that if you reply to this, you will suddenly no longer highlight Wimbledon wins).
Graf played an old Navratilova and still managed to get a 9-9 h2h. Martina played alongside Chris Evert, one of the greatest of all time and alongside other big names. Graf had Seles... we know what happened there.
Martina has some 60 total slams and a career GS in singles, doubles and mixed doubles. 160 something singles titles and 170 something doubles titles. All this in a far more competitive era.
You alway maintain that Navratilova played "in a more competitive era". But when asked who this impressive competition might have been you come up with players who were 33-38 years old when Martina won her first slam.
I maintain that Martina shared her era with the 3rd best player ever (or so - I have even seen her ranked number 1), namely Chris Evert - a player with 157 titles, 18GSs, and (apparently) the best win loss percentage in women's tennis history. Apart from the "regular" competition (e.g.. taking over from previous champs and running into new up and comers) this is the most important difference.
lol, there was two years difference in age between them. This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen. Thats less than most major tennis rivalries.
Its hard to get them to be the exact same fucking age or to peak at the exact same moment...
Bottom line, this is considered one of the greatest tennis rivalries of all time.
Defined how? Because Martina won more of their matches later? The woman still managed to defend the most impressive win-loss ratio in the history of tennis, despite playing (according to you) some 7 or so years "way past" her prime. Not just "past", but "WAY past" :) So maybe its 8 or 9 years if we are just talking "past" her prime... wow!
Wiki captures it best with "It is considered to be one of the greatest [rivalries] in tennis history and in sports in general".
In wiki is states "Evert's career win–loss record in singles matches of 1,309–146 (.900) is the best of any professional player in tennis history". If thats an error, then my apologies, but as far as I can see Martina's is about 86% and Steffi's about 88...
In the end, we can only speculate why some players can do it and others cant. As with everything, it probably boils down to genetics - at least partially. On the male circuit, Connors outlasted many players who fought their asses off to remain at the top and failed. In any case, player longevity is an attribute just like everything else.
I've learnt that Graf's fans are domineering people, dictators, bad, a little nazi towards other tennis players. They want their idol to be #1 for ever and win all titles at all costs.
They are never satisfied in spite of destiny (G. Parche) gave them all titles on a silver plate. What happened (stabbing) is something awful in tennis. They have destroyed tennis and made it a farce. Graf-Parche titles are all faked
Without all her injuries and her father's scandals Steffi would have lost only a few slam tournaments in 1987-99.
Maybe 4 of 5. Maximum!
Don't forget that Steffi won most matches against Seles EVEN when Seles was #1. Enough said. She was SO much better than any of her opponents. Simply the greatest ever!
what a classic!2 legends!But why people always mention Seles' stabbing though it did help more players like Sanchez,Martinez,Majoli,Hingis,Davenport etc to win Slams Steffi was Monica's number 1 threat.will always love both of them!
In what regard did Graf win "11 GS titles thanks to G. Parche"?
Graf won only 6 slams during Seles' absence, 2 of them being Wimbledons and 1 being a US title.
Fast surfaces on which Seles never had a chance against Graf.
So you might be discussing Graf's FO 93 & 95 and AO 94 titles? At AO 94 Graf was better than eve, definitely better than Seles ever played. And on clay both were about even anyway.
@kingwillbe and artisking are one of the same. A new alias by the SELES arsekisser. Keep on making this your life's work, LOL LOL LOL American retard....
love both these ladies. i remember thinking that it was only a matter of time before Venus made Wimbledon her playground. this was such an intense match from both these greats.
As for Evert missing some Australian and French Opens, Court missed out on many possible slams due to 3 breaks from the game. One that lasted from July 1966 to the start of 1968. One that lasted from July 1971 to the end of 1972. And another where she missed all of 1974. Heck already continuing to dominate the slams at aged 30/31 in 1973 she might have kept winning slams until atleast age 32 without the break to boot.
And lastly head to head means nothing compared to important titles. Otherwise I could claim Graf was the best in the World and not Seles in 91-93 due to the head to head matches, but even I wouldnt do that. Court in 72-73 won 3 slams vs 0 for Evert so the aging Court was clearly better than the young Chris. In fact from 70-77 overall Court won 8 slams vs 7 for Chris, a women aged 28 to 35 outperformed Evert.
@grafgirl27 Yep, I would still place Evert above Court for Evert's match record at the US Open, the French, and even Wimbledon. Grass was meant for Court, and Wimbledon is the place to shine where Court fell to the young Evert. Also, regarding Austin, Evert's last win over Austin was 6-0,6-0. Austin had won matches indoors within two months, and later when Austin should have been in her prime, she faltered. Evert continued to grow as a player-another testament to her greatness.
@jpeyton62 Austin was already a shadow of herself by 1982 due to injuries and would soon retire. If you break the matches down to the period when Austin wasnt only 14 or 15 and look at the period of 79-81 where she was still only 16-18 and nowhere near her potential peak (though it turned out to be the best she would get due to injuries) I believe she was something like 9-4 vs Evert who unlike the aging Court when she played Evert was in the absolute heart of her own career.
And again I dont give a shit what Billie Jean King says when it comes to Court. King is a great champion and ambassador for tennis of course but it is a well known fact she hates Court and is jealous of her success and the fact she is a distant 2nd fiddle to Court as far as the best player of her generation. And the King, Navratilova, Evert clique do their best to downplay foreign champions.
To finish my point, maybe Steffi shouldn't have agreed to play mixed since to her singles was everything and to MacEnroe, it was doubles. I think she had planned to quit all along, but this just brought home to her that it was no longer fun and so she decided to skip the U.S. Open and go ahead and retire.
I remember this well; I blame McEnroe; he talked Steffi into playing mixed doubles at Wimbledon and they would have won, but rain delayed their match and she had the final the next day against Davenport and was afraid that playing the mixed late with McEnroe in the damp would stiffen her back so she decided not to withdraw. This upset Mac and he made a lot of statements about how disappointed he was and how they would have won. Next day Steffi was listless in final and lost.
at the ime when margaret court played, there was no tough competition. even the records say that. there was no female player of great caliber at that time. that was why she won so many of them.another point, she played at the time when there were no hard courts.steffi is the only player to have calender year grand slam on all variety of courts.
and dont count doubles and mixed doubles titles as we all have seen players who aren't capable of getting to the second round in singles often win them.
@grafgirl27 Billie Jean King stated that if someone looked at Court's record outside of the Australian, a very different picture would appear. That Evert beat the number one Court in 1970 when Ever was only 15 says a lot. Also, Evert always maintained a winning edge over Court argues against Court being to superior.
@jpeyton62 Billie Jean King hates Court so she is not a credible source when it comes to Court. It is true of course that Courts record is inflated a bit by the depleted fields in Australia. However with the home court advantage she probably wins atleast 7 even had everyone played. And Everts win at 15 over Court was some tiny event, hardly significant. More telling is that an 18 year old Evert lost 2 of 3 slam meetings with a 31 year old pregnant Court in her last full year on tour.
Hum, I just looked at Evert's record against Court and while the record is correct for 73-outside of that year, Evert won all of their matches from 1970 to 77 except one (9-4 Evert). Billie Jean and Chris Evert have always been effusive in stating what a great talent Court was. However, mentally, tactically, and technically, King said there were areas to exploit with Court. Finally, I think also one has to look at the total careers.
@jpeyton62 Court turned 30 in 1972 and by 77 was 35. A fellow all time great should be beating a women aged 30-35. I guess you hold Everts record against Graf againgst her by that logic. Or even worse a totally peak Evert with a losing head to head with a teenage Austin.
I agree one should look at total careers. Court has 24 slam singles titles and 62 total slam titles counting doubles. She won 3 or more slams in the same year 5 times and 11 years apart. Nuff said.
@grafgirl27 Evert's against Court pre-73 was 3-1. Evert was still winning grandslams after 30 against Navratilova. Court won none after 30. Last (which cannot be an adverb-lastly), Sampras said Evert's 13 years with a grandslam title was the biggest achievement in tennis. I'd go with the 125 claycourt match streak followed by another 81, or the 17 years as a top three player. Also, Evert didn't play the French for three years during the streak and rarely played the AO during the 70s.
@jpeyton62 I am not sure where you get that stat from. Court won 2 slam titles at 30 and 1 at 31. Chris won 1 at 30 and 1 at 31. So Chris did not do better there. Court of course had a 3 slam year in 1973 aged 30/31 beating the likes of Evert, King, and Goolagong, while Evert was no longer a dominant player at that age. Court also had a 3 slam year at only age 17/18 in 1962. Evert didnt win her first slam until she was 19. Court was on top longer and was a dominant force longer.
@grafgirl27 I do hold Graf as a greater player than Evert. Evert would agree with that and has. Graf's record speaks for itself as to her place as does Evert's. Graf played against so many great players and won so many championships.
@Hoffenheim08 I think those are great accomplishments from all those players, but the difference between them and Evert is that they, Austin and Capriati in particular, did not maintain their peak as Evert did. What happened to Seles at the hand of a crazed Graf fan in incomprehensible, a true tragedy for Seles who could have beaten Evert's French record.
disappointed this doesn't show the 4 all game- If I remember correctly- Venus had a total melt down over a line call- yelling at the umpire, 'This is the most important match of all time.'
Like I said...a win is a win...a loss is a loss. 1 Grand Slam title is 1 Grand Slam title - they call them: 1 Grand Slam wunder. 1 GS is much better than No Grand Slam. Who the effin are you to discredit that.
Youre in denial !!
Not a fan of hate but.....have you thought about maybe the reason why shes a homophobe is because she wants join in youre annual parade and be a queen for a day but you wouldnt let her, Mookusness?
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@rehabboy01 She only has two more major singles titles than Steffi. Doubles titles don't count cause doubles sucks. I think not being a batshit crazy homophobe christian lady is worth at least two more major titles.
Also, stop calling them grand slams, you nerd. A grand slam is when you win 4 major titles in a row.
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@rehabboy01 M. Court-Smith is not the best. Before Open Era 1968 she won easy in australia (ameatur). After Open Era 1968 is right Tour and she won only 11 GS! Open Era-GS-Record 1. Steffi Graf 22 GS 2. Navratilova 18 3. Evert 18 4. Williams 13 . .
It's hard to imagine that she felt after Wimbledon that she no longer had motivation to train and compete - she seems to thrive and love the competition so much even at this late point in her career. And to retire at #3 in the world was the highest until Henin called it at #1, and of course that doesn't countbecause she came back ;)
If both at their prime, Venus in her wedding dress can beat Graf. Venus is too powerful in her prime. Venus has incredible serve and agility that can put Graf's game to shame.
The only reason wht Steffi has 22 slams is because of the Seles stabbing.
Her record will always be in doubt because 11 of her 22 slams were won AFTER Monica Seles was stabbed and Monica would never be the same player again and she was at the top of the game and the undisputed #1 when she was attacked by a Steffi Graf crazy fan.
@italo36 u think graf would have never won antoher slam after seles was stabbed amd u really think graf would have stayed no2....dream on pal, for a start the way graf destroyed seles at wimby 92 was the start of her reagaining no 1 imo she blew seles of the court it was amazing
What a great match. I remember watching this and rooting for Steffi with all my heart. I like Venus too but that shrieking makes it so unbearable to watch her.
absolutely kaytaster, steffi graf is the best no discussion. graf 22 slams, evert and navratilova 18 and serena 13 (she' s very far of these champions)
SERENA-BEST OF ALL TIME!!! Graf was just lucky to get so many slams.....she was good but not the best of the best, just remember how monica used to dismiss her when she showed up!!!
@Keytaster yeah yea, right for your information MARGARET COURT has 24 GS titles (obiously better than graf) if we look at it that way! And naratilova`s got 167 career titles (again better than graf) ! Like I said before it`s praticly irrelevant, cause older generation players were just about tennis,tennis tennis and nothing else, as they were entering every possible event, in order to win more! Nowadays u can only see jankovic o
@petronije1001 So if number of tournaments won are that important what does it say about Serena who has less than 40, and even less than Davenport, Henin, and Clijsters, hahah. And Court's slam tally is inflated by the Australian Open status then, everyone knows that including past champions of the game who mention that whenever the record is brought up. It wasnt just one top player missing for awhile like Monica but nearly all of them every year besides Court and the other Australians.
@Keytaster Nowadays u can only see jankovic or Wozniacki doing so, playing poor quality tennis and being no 1 or 2! On the other hand, there`s serena dominating the sport, while taking part in only 6 events so far this year! She`s a genius, she`s not a wta driven robot like naratilova, JJ, Wozniacki to play eery single event...but whenever it`s nessessary she can be a tennis machine better than all of them!!! Btw I wasn`t insulting graf...
I really hate when I read that Steffi only won lots of slams because of the stabbing. It's not her fault. There was nothing she could do about it. She beat everyone who showed up against her and that's all we can ask. What, was she supposed to sit out two years as well?
Graf thought she had this Wimbledon won after she beat Venus in the semis. BUT.. big hitting CONSISTENT power player Davenport awaited in the final, and that was the end of ever winning Wimbledon again for Graf.
@SoulPowerful This wasn't the semifinals, this is the quarterfinals, Steffi Graf went on to play Mirjana Lucic in the semifinals, she beat her before she lost to Davenport
@pearpeas I don't think Venus was intimidated by Steffi, she had after all won their last 2 matches. I thought Venus was very bold in this match and played very well, but Graf was just the better player that time.
@yevshif Yeah she announced her retirement in SanDiego but the writing was on the wall as she said after the French it was her last French Open and the same after Wimbledon. Wimbledon meant the most to her so once it ended so did Graf's passion for the sport. Many felt she should have played the US Open but at that stage her drive had gone and no player is any good without that.
@mattkris2007 She'd been hinting at it for a while, like after she won the French she said it was her last appearance there. Then after the Wimbledon final she said she wouldn't be back next year. It wasn't until after Wimbledon, August I believe, when she had to retire from a match during a tournament in California that she decided to retire shortly after.
Yes, Graf is the greatest. She was No. 1 for a record 377 consecutive weeks, has won the most grand slam singles titles in the open era, has won every single grand slam at least 4 times, is the only player to have won the Calender Golden Slam. Won the Calender Grand Slam when the slams were on 3 different surfaces. reached 31 grand slam finals....need I go on? She also managed to have a winning record against all of the other top female players when she was past her peak.
All those saying Venus was near her prime are delusional, Come on you can see how emotional she is and how immature her game is, yeh she was playing great wimbledon 00 onwards but The venus of 02/03 was nearer to her prime, and the venus of 08 Wimbledon was some of the best ever, in terms of her grass court prowess, and of course her volleys were alot stronger too. Wimbledon is the only place I believe Venus would beat her these days though. And yes Steffi is one of the greatest
@quiet1234 And do you think Graf was near her prime here!? That is even more delusional. 1999 was in fact one of Venus's best overall years ever, atleast her 4th best behind 2000, 2001, and 2002. She won 6 tournaments this year, did well in all the slams, and was a contender on all surfaces. Graf had already lost to Schnyder, Halard, Sugiyama, Serna, in the past year at the time of this match, players she beat everytime in her sleep in her prime.
@Hoffenheim08 LOL! U must be smoking drugs! Steffi was one of the greatest players ever, yes, BUT in their Primes on grass at Wimbledon, Steffi would have been SMOKED liked bacon against either Serena/Venus.... pleeeease. The Williams OWN Wimbledon, 9 out of the last 11 wimbledons they've WON.... with more to come and they are not fully fit yet, still on come-backs, yet still winning Slams in new Era outlasting their former rivals, i.e. Hingis, Henin, Davenport, Mauresmo etc. Williams own Grass!
@Hoffenheim08 U lost the plot! Steffi was not over the Hill in 1999. In fact she was playing some of her best Tennis, esp after beating Hingis, Davenport et al in French Open and reaching Wimbledon Final '99. In fact Venus and Serena are approaching Steffi's age when she bowed out in '99 and still winning Slams, Serena twice this year. Venus won NO slams in 1999. But she went on to win many thereafter, so your 'point' is pointless!
If was 'far over the hill' like you say, then I guess it makes it even more amazing she beat the 20 year old Venus, who was almost unbeatable at the time, here at Wimbledon! Go Steffi!
Venus was not unbeatable in 1999. And she had better years in 2000-02. But the fact remains that 1999 was one of her best years ever. 6 tournament wins, 61 matches won. In that regard only 2002 was better.
1999 Venus was definitely better than Venus from 2004 until today. Close to her peak.
I can see what you mean about Steffi in 1999. At the French I truly feel she played the best tennis of her life. That final against Hingis was incredible. I felt like something was off by the time Wimbledon came around.
No way Steffi played the best tennis of her life at the FO 99!
Especially the Hingis match - in part due to the windy conditions - was only an average performance from her. Considerably worse than the Venus match at Wimbledon.
Perhaps you are too young to have watched Steffi's truly great matches in Wimbledon 88, 89, 92 (semis and finals). And in several other slams in the mid-90s.
Steffi was 1 of the Greatest Champions of all time, however Steffi's best would not have been better than Venus's best! Venus arguably is the Best wta mover to ever play the game? In 1999 Vee still hadnt peaked with her power game (2007 US Open hit a 129mph serve)....
vencent905 4 months ago
@vencent905
You think 2007 was the best of Venus?
When she lost to Golovin, Rezai, Jankovic, Chakvetadse, Razzano, Penetta?
Yeah, Steffi would have been shaking in her boots ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
hoffenheim talks about how graf was better than ever at the 94 ao yet she lost a few months later to mary peirce at the fo.i wish seles was around to kick grafs ass at the 94 ao like she did in the 93 ao final.seles had 7 grand slams by age 18 and graf had only 2.you do the math as to who was on there way to winning more grand slams.
jayfey77 5 months ago
@jayfey77
You are wrong - as always.
At age 18 Graf had won FO 87, AO 88 and FO 88.
You say Seles at the AO 93 was better than ever yet she lost to a 36-year-old Navratilova three weeks later. Never ever in the history of women's tennis did the #1 player lose to an older player.
Yes, Seles holds indeed some nice world records (eg. highest loss ever of a #1 player in a slam final, worst H2H record ever against her main opponent).
Hoffenheim08 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 im not wrong i said by age 18 not over the age of 18 you fool.and i provided video proof onyoutubefro cbs unlike you who provide lies.either way seles had way more grand slams by age 18 than graf.seles didnt care about the smaller tournaments.everybody knows this she lost to sabatini weeks before in rome then beat her at the french in 91 and 92,she lost to capriati too in 91 before beating her a few weeks later at the french.you know nothing.
jayfey77 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
You need some serious fact checking. You say never in the history of women's tennis did the #1 lose to an older player? Steffi was ranked #1 when she lost the 1987 US Open final to Navratilova....she was ranked 1 when she lost the 1991 US Open SF to Navratilova too. Not to mention many, many other matches lost by various number 1's to older players '85 and '86 french open finals.. older Christ Evert beat #1 Navratilova in each final...there are many more as well..
atreju1979 2 months ago
@atreju1979
Navratiova was 36 years, 3 months old when #1 Seles lost to her.
Never lost a #1 player to an older player.
What is so difficult understand here, son?
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
best match of that wimbledon.
idontsignin 6 months ago
Graf has a long nose like pinochio, I wonder what Agassi found attractive!
Trent689 7 months ago
@Trent689
Son, when you grow older you will know what attractive body parts women can have.
Graf had a LOT of them ...
Hoffenheim08 7 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Yeah, Graf was hot. She still is.
trha2222 5 months ago
@Trent689 if you base attraction on looks then god help help you. vanity is a terrible thing
idontsignin 6 months ago
@idontsignin
Graf is attractive look-wise. But of course in any other departmet as well!
Hoffenheim08 6 months ago
Graff said later that this was the toughest match for her to win at Wimbledon that wasn't a final or semi... She also said the Venus will win this title very soon. .. The next year boom Venus is Champion!!!
lesguy19 7 months ago
I can't stand Venus's screaming. It's beyond grunting, it is screaming. She even screams on volleys which shows me it's not the amount of effort she's putting into her shots. It's so satisfying to see her scream/shriek and miss that volley by five feet at 3:49.
eric251982 8 months ago
stupid williams sisters, they would have been best of all time if they had a brain
MrKingDMan 8 months ago
@MrKingDMan
I fully belive they are or where on something as they are a little big for the average womens tennis player, as we all know Daddy liked to cheat!
Time will tell
leverwork1 8 months ago
why are people commenting about navratilova and evert? you guys do know niether of them are playing in this video dont u? :s
crombot77 8 months ago
@crombot77
No but I would really like to see the steroid twins play with a wood racket, I am pretty sure it would have been a much different career
leverwork1 8 months ago
Wow... impossible to see any video that Graf is in without her retarded fanatics spamming the chat box.
Its like if they scream hard enough, everyone will eventually agree with their "points" (also known as statistics that have been carefully selected and manipulated for a given purpose).
alin1975 9 months ago
@alin1975
"Statistics manipulated"?
What about 22-9 slams, 7-0 Wimbledons, 10-5 H2H career-wise and 5-2 H2H when Seles was #1 is "manipulated"?
I mean in real life, not in your retarded Selesian parallel universe?
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Where did I mention Seles? I would say retarded is a word that better befits someone who replies to imaginary arguments.
Not to say Seles was not great, she was. But sadly she was robbed of her chance.
I have on previous occasions explained to you why Martina is the greatest female player of all time, so if I have any "universe" its Navratilovian :D (btw, using my crystal ball, I am going to guess that if you reply to this, you will suddenly no longer highlight Wimbledon wins).
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
Navratilova won 9 of 22 Wimbledons, Steffi 7 of 14.
Steffi leads Navratilova in Wimbledon with 2-1 in matches and 250-220 in points played.
Advantage Graf ...
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Lol, we have argued this before.
Graf played an old Navratilova and still managed to get a 9-9 h2h. Martina played alongside Chris Evert, one of the greatest of all time and alongside other big names. Graf had Seles... we know what happened there.
Martina has some 60 total slams and a career GS in singles, doubles and mixed doubles. 160 something singles titles and 170 something doubles titles. All this in a far more competitive era.
Game, set and match Navratilova.
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
Who was Navratilova's competition?
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Do you even remember having argued all of this with me several times before?
Because each time its like the slate is wiped clean and we start over...
I call it the Graf fan memory span :D
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
You alway maintain that Navratilova played "in a more competitive era". But when asked who this impressive competition might have been you come up with players who were 33-38 years old when Martina won her first slam.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
I maintain that Martina shared her era with the 3rd best player ever (or so - I have even seen her ranked number 1), namely Chris Evert - a player with 157 titles, 18GSs, and (apparently) the best win loss percentage in women's tennis history. Apart from the "regular" competition (e.g.. taking over from previous champs and running into new up and comers) this is the most important difference.
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
When Navratilova won 15 of her 18 slams in 1981-87 Evert was 27-31 years old. Way past her prime.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
lol, there was two years difference in age between them. This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen. Thats less than most major tennis rivalries.
Its hard to get them to be the exact same fucking age or to peak at the exact same moment...
Bottom line, this is considered one of the greatest tennis rivalries of all time.
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
Evert peaked in the 70s, starting in 1974. To expect from her to be a major threat to Navratilova in the mid-80 is insane.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Defined how? Because Martina won more of their matches later? The woman still managed to defend the most impressive win-loss ratio in the history of tennis, despite playing (according to you) some 7 or so years "way past" her prime. Not just "past", but "WAY past" :) So maybe its 8 or 9 years if we are just talking "past" her prime... wow!
Wiki captures it best with "It is considered to be one of the greatest [rivalries] in tennis history and in sports in general".
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
The most impressive win-loss ratio in the history of tennis"????
Are you on crack or what?????????????????
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
In wiki is states "Evert's career win–loss record in singles matches of 1,309–146 (.900) is the best of any professional player in tennis history". If thats an error, then my apologies, but as far as I can see Martina's is about 86% and Steffi's about 88...
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
No, that's not an error.
But it's not what you said.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
I said she managed to defend the most impressive win-loss ration in the history of tennis... how is that not exactly what those statistics show?
alin1975 8 months ago
@alin1975
Maybe Martina wins just because she stayed in the game longer and her body didn't break down like Graf. And love never kept her from the game.
eric251982 8 months ago
@eric251982
In the end, we can only speculate why some players can do it and others cant. As with everything, it probably boils down to genetics - at least partially. On the male circuit, Connors outlasted many players who fought their asses off to remain at the top and failed. In any case, player longevity is an attribute just like everything else.
alin1975 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Navratilova won more Wimbledon titles. Had Steffi stayed around longer, she might have had more, but we can only imagine. Game set match Martina.
eric251982 8 months ago
@eric251982
Graf won more slams than Navratilova.
Game, set, match Steffi.
Oops, suddenly numbers don't count anymore, right ... ?
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Yep it's manipulated. 7-0 Wimbledons kiss her ass.
volvariella 8 months ago
I've learnt that Graf's fans are domineering people, dictators, bad, a little nazi towards other tennis players. They want their idol to be #1 for ever and win all titles at all costs.
They are never satisfied in spite of destiny (G. Parche) gave them all titles on a silver plate. What happened (stabbing) is something awful in tennis. They have destroyed tennis and made it a farce. Graf-Parche titles are all faked
kingwillbe 10 months ago
@kingwillbe
Without all her injuries and her father's scandals Steffi would have lost only a few slam tournaments in 1987-99.
Maybe 4 of 5. Maximum!
Don't forget that Steffi won most matches against Seles EVEN when Seles was #1. Enough said. She was SO much better than any of her opponents. Simply the greatest ever!
Hoffenheim08 9 months ago
@kingwillbe thats y they r called FANS. FAN is someone LOYAL by all means.
lilnastiaaa 9 months ago
what a classic!2 legends!But why people always mention Seles' stabbing though it did help more players like Sanchez,Martinez,Majoli,Hingis,Davenport etc to win Slams Steffi was Monica's number 1 threat.will always love both of them!
lesfigurines 10 months ago
@lesfigurines I doubt very much Hingis or Davenport gained any slams from the Seles stabbing. It was a new era by then.
grafgirl27 10 months ago
@grafgirl27
BS.
Seles would have won 3 or 4 slams each year at least until 1999.
Hoffenheim08 10 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 or dont you mean until 2009 perhaps. :P
grafgirl27 10 months ago
@grafgirl27
No, only 2 or 3 each year in the 00s ...
Hoffenheim08 10 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 yea seles record a Wimbledon was amazing ....she won ...ummmm 0 titles
dwaynebuddha 10 months ago
@dwaynebuddha
Graf won..........ummmmm......11 GS titles thanks to G. Parche.....ohhhhhhh......how disgusting!
It's good to win titles in that way, isn'it? It's mean action, that was the only way to Graf to win again, lousy coward people
kingwillbe 10 months ago
@kingwillbe Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT , Accept the fact and move on with your life, Seles Arsekisser, LOL
tenniscollector 9 months ago
@kingwillbe
In what regard did Graf win "11 GS titles thanks to G. Parche"?
Graf won only 6 slams during Seles' absence, 2 of them being Wimbledons and 1 being a US title.
Fast surfaces on which Seles never had a chance against Graf.
So you might be discussing Graf's FO 93 & 95 and AO 94 titles? At AO 94 Graf was better than eve, definitely better than Seles ever played. And on clay both were about even anyway.
Hoffenheim08 9 months ago
@kingwillbe and artisking are one of the same. A new alias by the SELES arsekisser. Keep on making this your life's work, LOL LOL LOL American retard....
tenniscollector 9 months ago
love both these ladies. i remember thinking that it was only a matter of time before Venus made Wimbledon her playground. this was such an intense match from both these greats.
ErinAlexis86 10 months ago
I never liked Steffi Graf until during 1998 ~ 99 when she proved me wrong about ...
beavertown2006 10 months ago
stefi rules here , so perfect
jelenapametnica 11 months ago
It is fine if you rate Evert over Court however. I dont though, and I see no reason at all I should.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
As for Evert missing some Australian and French Opens, Court missed out on many possible slams due to 3 breaks from the game. One that lasted from July 1966 to the start of 1968. One that lasted from July 1971 to the end of 1972. And another where she missed all of 1974. Heck already continuing to dominate the slams at aged 30/31 in 1973 she might have kept winning slams until atleast age 32 without the break to boot.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
And lastly head to head means nothing compared to important titles. Otherwise I could claim Graf was the best in the World and not Seles in 91-93 due to the head to head matches, but even I wouldnt do that. Court in 72-73 won 3 slams vs 0 for Evert so the aging Court was clearly better than the young Chris. In fact from 70-77 overall Court won 8 slams vs 7 for Chris, a women aged 28 to 35 outperformed Evert.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
@grafgirl27 Yep, I would still place Evert above Court for Evert's match record at the US Open, the French, and even Wimbledon. Grass was meant for Court, and Wimbledon is the place to shine where Court fell to the young Evert. Also, regarding Austin, Evert's last win over Austin was 6-0,6-0. Austin had won matches indoors within two months, and later when Austin should have been in her prime, she faltered. Evert continued to grow as a player-another testament to her greatness.
jpeyton62 11 months ago
@jpeyton62 Austin was already a shadow of herself by 1982 due to injuries and would soon retire. If you break the matches down to the period when Austin wasnt only 14 or 15 and look at the period of 79-81 where she was still only 16-18 and nowhere near her potential peak (though it turned out to be the best she would get due to injuries) I believe she was something like 9-4 vs Evert who unlike the aging Court when she played Evert was in the absolute heart of her own career.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
And again I dont give a shit what Billie Jean King says when it comes to Court. King is a great champion and ambassador for tennis of course but it is a well known fact she hates Court and is jealous of her success and the fact she is a distant 2nd fiddle to Court as far as the best player of her generation. And the King, Navratilova, Evert clique do their best to downplay foreign champions.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
To finish my point, maybe Steffi shouldn't have agreed to play mixed since to her singles was everything and to MacEnroe, it was doubles. I think she had planned to quit all along, but this just brought home to her that it was no longer fun and so she decided to skip the U.S. Open and go ahead and retire.
antinotis 11 months ago
I remember this well; I blame McEnroe; he talked Steffi into playing mixed doubles at Wimbledon and they would have won, but rain delayed their match and she had the final the next day against Davenport and was afraid that playing the mixed late with McEnroe in the damp would stiffen her back so she decided not to withdraw. This upset Mac and he made a lot of statements about how disappointed he was and how they would have won. Next day Steffi was listless in final and lost.
antinotis 11 months ago
stupid power against amazing talent and skill
Arjetube 1 year ago
@Arjetube what an ignorant comment this is..
Semella 1 year ago
@Arjetube good comment.
WielkiHrabia 1 year ago
at the ime when margaret court played, there was no tough competition. even the records say that. there was no female player of great caliber at that time. that was why she won so many of them.another point, she played at the time when there were no hard courts.steffi is the only player to have calender year grand slam on all variety of courts.
and dont count doubles and mixed doubles titles as we all have seen players who aren't capable of getting to the second round in singles often win them.
imholmes100 1 year ago
@imholmes100
Court beat King 4 times, Bueno 3 times, Evert twice and Goolagong twice in slams finals.
Great players all of them.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 Where do you rate Court all time. I think she belongs 3rd behind Graf and Navratilova. She is superior to Evert I believe.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
@grafgirl27
I never saw her play, so it's difficult to say.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@grafgirl27 Billie Jean King stated that if someone looked at Court's record outside of the Australian, a very different picture would appear. That Evert beat the number one Court in 1970 when Ever was only 15 says a lot. Also, Evert always maintained a winning edge over Court argues against Court being to superior.
jpeyton62 11 months ago
@jpeyton62 Billie Jean King hates Court so she is not a credible source when it comes to Court. It is true of course that Courts record is inflated a bit by the depleted fields in Australia. However with the home court advantage she probably wins atleast 7 even had everyone played. And Everts win at 15 over Court was some tiny event, hardly significant. More telling is that an 18 year old Evert lost 2 of 3 slam meetings with a 31 year old pregnant Court in her last full year on tour.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
@grafgirl27
Hum, I just looked at Evert's record against Court and while the record is correct for 73-outside of that year, Evert won all of their matches from 1970 to 77 except one (9-4 Evert). Billie Jean and Chris Evert have always been effusive in stating what a great talent Court was. However, mentally, tactically, and technically, King said there were areas to exploit with Court. Finally, I think also one has to look at the total careers.
jpeyton62 11 months ago
@jpeyton62
Court always found areas to exploit with Jelly Bean King as well.
After all she won 4 of 5 slam finals against her.
Hoffenheim08 11 months ago
@jpeyton62 Court turned 30 in 1972 and by 77 was 35. A fellow all time great should be beating a women aged 30-35. I guess you hold Everts record against Graf againgst her by that logic. Or even worse a totally peak Evert with a losing head to head with a teenage Austin.
I agree one should look at total careers. Court has 24 slam singles titles and 62 total slam titles counting doubles. She won 3 or more slams in the same year 5 times and 11 years apart. Nuff said.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
@grafgirl27 Evert's against Court pre-73 was 3-1. Evert was still winning grandslams after 30 against Navratilova. Court won none after 30. Last (which cannot be an adverb-lastly), Sampras said Evert's 13 years with a grandslam title was the biggest achievement in tennis. I'd go with the 125 claycourt match streak followed by another 81, or the 17 years as a top three player. Also, Evert didn't play the French for three years during the streak and rarely played the AO during the 70s.
jpeyton62 11 months ago
@jpeyton62 I am not sure where you get that stat from. Court won 2 slam titles at 30 and 1 at 31. Chris won 1 at 30 and 1 at 31. So Chris did not do better there. Court of course had a 3 slam year in 1973 aged 30/31 beating the likes of Evert, King, and Goolagong, while Evert was no longer a dominant player at that age. Court also had a 3 slam year at only age 17/18 in 1962. Evert didnt win her first slam until she was 19. Court was on top longer and was a dominant force longer.
grafgirl27 11 months ago
@grafgirl27 I do hold Graf as a greater player than Evert. Evert would agree with that and has. Graf's record speaks for itself as to her place as does Evert's. Graf played against so many great players and won so many championships.
jpeyton62 11 months ago
@jpeyton62
And what did 15-year-old Tracy Austin beating Navratilova twice in 1978 (once with 61 61) say? A lot, too?
And what about 15-year-old Capriati beating Seles twice in 1991/92?
And 15-year-old Hingis beating Graf in 1996?
Hoffenheim08 11 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I think those are great accomplishments from all those players, but the difference between them and Evert is that they, Austin and Capriati in particular, did not maintain their peak as Evert did. What happened to Seles at the hand of a crazed Graf fan in incomprehensible, a true tragedy for Seles who could have beaten Evert's French record.
jpeyton62 11 months ago
disappointed this doesn't show the 4 all game- If I remember correctly- Venus had a total melt down over a line call- yelling at the umpire, 'This is the most important match of all time.'
demc67 1 year ago
Like I said...a win is a win...a loss is a loss. 1 Grand Slam title is 1 Grand Slam title - they call them: 1 Grand Slam wunder. 1 GS is much better than No Grand Slam. Who the effin are you to discredit that.
Youre in denial !!
Not a fan of hate but.....have you thought about maybe the reason why shes a homophobe is because she wants join in youre annual parade and be a queen for a day but you wouldnt let her, Mookusness?
rehabboy01 1 year ago 6
Margaret Court's Record:
24 GS SINGLE titles.
19 Doubles titles.
19 Mixed Doubles titles.
Total Grand Slam: 62 GS titles - thats SIXTY TWO GS titles.
graffiti is NOT even half that.
rehabboy01 1 year ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@rehabboy01 Yeah but she was nutty homophobe so she doesn't count.
Mookusness 1 year ago
@Mookusness Im talking GS titles here, NUMBERS!!!! NOT personal reason or preferences. This is tennis !! A loss is a loss, a win is a win !!
She has 62 GS titles, shes entitled to that ! You cant deny her that !
Grow up and Get over it !!!!!!!!
rehabboy01 1 year ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@rehabboy01 She only has two more major singles titles than Steffi. Doubles titles don't count cause doubles sucks. I think not being a batshit crazy homophobe christian lady is worth at least two more major titles.
Also, stop calling them grand slams, you nerd. A grand slam is when you win 4 major titles in a row.
Mookusness 1 year ago
@Mookusness
What's wrong with homophobes???
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 Homophobes are not cool, bro.
Mookusness 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i think it is odd that you are SO GAY, and yet have a problem with gays......
You must really dislike yourself.
artisking1 1 year ago 3
@rehabboy01
Yes, those AO mixed doubles titles Court has won in the 60s definitely are equal to Steffi's Wimbledon singles titles of the 90s ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
dfreund1981 8 months ago
amazing..she is 1 of the telanted women player of tenis
fathsomuch 1 year ago
but it wasnt the final why is she happy
beyoncemode 1 year ago
@beyoncemode
And Steffi is happy that she won the FO match.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 oh ok
beyoncemode 1 year ago
@lourdesbollera sad day
dwaynebuddha 1 year ago
how many players keep venus behind the basline like that today
lollipopdouche 1 year ago
steffi graf is tennis
lollipopdouche 1 year ago
Anyone else find 90's women's tennis much faster and agressive than nowadays wta?
TheListhename 1 year ago
It's hard to imagine that she felt after Wimbledon that she no longer had motivation to train and compete - she seems to thrive and love the competition so much even at this late point in her career. And to retire at #3 in the world was the highest until Henin called it at #1, and of course that doesn't countbecause she came back ;)
StewNWT 1 year ago
In the Open Era had Graf record grandslam 22 Titles. Margaret Smith NOT. only 13 Slams (Open Era).
Since 1968 right Open Era.
Graf ist the best all time
dfreund1981 1 year ago
@dfreund1981
actually, during the open era court won 11 slams, not 13.
saar144 1 year ago
@saar144 #
oh yes you have right. ;) thx
dfreund1981 1 year ago
i remember thinking what an incredible match. steffi is one of the greatest players to have ever played the game or even picked up a raquet.
idontsignin 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
don' t compare steffi graf ( the best of all time) with venus wiliams
TheSami75 1 year ago
don' t compare steffi graf ( the best of all time) with venus wiliams
TheSami75 1 year ago
If both at their prime, Venus in her wedding dress can beat Graf. Venus is too powerful in her prime. Venus has incredible serve and agility that can put Graf's game to shame.
TheSportslover2010 1 year ago
@TheSportslover2010
When was Venus "at her prime"?
In how many years did Venus win more titles and more matches than in 1999?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@TheSportslover2010
"venus in her prime"?
LOL!
how long did her prime last exactly? 3 months? LMAO
saar144 1 year ago
@saar144
Well, that is the question Venus fans never have an answer for ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@saar144
The only reason wht Steffi has 22 slams is because of the Seles stabbing.
Her record will always be in doubt because 11 of her 22 slams were won AFTER Monica Seles was stabbed and Monica would never be the same player again and she was at the top of the game and the undisputed #1 when she was attacked by a Steffi Graf crazy fan.
italo36 1 year ago
@italo36 she could also MAY have won more had Seles not been stabbed.
cassidyjaeson 1 year ago
@italo36 Statements like yours are so annoying and pointless. It was what it was. Accept that and move on!
bomb692001 1 year ago
@italo36 u think graf would have never won antoher slam after seles was stabbed amd u really think graf would have stayed no2....dream on pal, for a start the way graf destroyed seles at wimby 92 was the start of her reagaining no 1 imo she blew seles of the court it was amazing
dwaynebuddha 1 year ago
What a great match. I remember watching this and rooting for Steffi with all my heart. I like Venus too but that shrieking makes it so unbearable to watch her.
eric251982 1 year ago
yeah but margaret court didn' t win each grand slam four times.
margaret court was not number 1 during 377 weeks.
graf is the best
TheSami75 1 year ago
@TheSami75
Steffi won the three most important tournaments - the French, Wimbledon and the US Open - at least FIVE times.
That alone elevates her above the rest.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
absolutely kaytaster, steffi graf is the best no discussion. graf 22 slams, evert and navratilova 18 and serena 13 (she' s very far of these champions)
TheSami75 1 year ago
@TheSami75 margaret court has 24 gs titles!
petronije1001 1 year ago
SERENA-BEST OF ALL TIME!!! Graf was just lucky to get so many slams.....she was good but not the best of the best, just remember how monica used to dismiss her when she showed up!!!
petronije1001 1 year ago
@petronije1001 er... please refrain from such childish utterances. You can be a fan of Serena Williams without insulting Steffi Graf!
By the way, Graf 22 Majors against S. Williams 13; career titles Graf 107 opposed to S. Williams 36 (so far)
No.1 Rank: Graf 377 weeks against S. Williams 106
Keytaster 1 year ago
Comment removed
petronije1001 1 year ago
@Keytaster yeah yea, right for your information MARGARET COURT has 24 GS titles (obiously better than graf) if we look at it that way! And naratilova`s got 167 career titles (again better than graf) ! Like I said before it`s praticly irrelevant, cause older generation players were just about tennis,tennis tennis and nothing else, as they were entering every possible event, in order to win more! Nowadays u can only see jankovic o
petronije1001 1 year ago
@petronije1001 So if number of tournaments won are that important what does it say about Serena who has less than 40, and even less than Davenport, Henin, and Clijsters, hahah. And Court's slam tally is inflated by the Australian Open status then, everyone knows that including past champions of the game who mention that whenever the record is brought up. It wasnt just one top player missing for awhile like Monica but nearly all of them every year besides Court and the other Australians.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
@Keytaster Nowadays u can only see jankovic or Wozniacki doing so, playing poor quality tennis and being no 1 or 2! On the other hand, there`s serena dominating the sport, while taking part in only 6 events so far this year! She`s a genius, she`s not a wta driven robot like naratilova, JJ, Wozniacki to play eery single event...but whenever it`s nessessary she can be a tennis machine better than all of them!!! Btw I wasn`t insulting graf...
petronije1001 1 year ago
@petronije1001 Serena dominating the sport? By winning only 2 tournaments this year. Some dominance.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
@petronije1001 yes Monica just dismissed Graf when she showed up. That is why at her peak she lost the finals of Wimbledon 6-2, 6-1, ROTFL! Idiot.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
She retired in August 1999. So after Wimbledon.
ridesbuttons 1 year ago
she was the best never seen any player @ 30 beating world no. 1,2,3 in the same tournament
uttamccu 1 year ago
@uttamccu Who was no 1? If it wasn't Lindsay then what number was she?
Prolife29 1 year ago
@Prolife29 hingis 1 dav 2 graf 3 seles 4
dwaynebuddha 1 year ago
I really hate when I read that Steffi only won lots of slams because of the stabbing. It's not her fault. There was nothing she could do about it. She beat everyone who showed up against her and that's all we can ask. What, was she supposed to sit out two years as well?
aa330 1 year ago
Wow Venus had a really really slow second serve early in her career.
MikeyMacky 1 year ago
skux
arashtennis 1 year ago
Graf thought she had this Wimbledon won after she beat Venus in the semis. BUT.. big hitting CONSISTENT power player Davenport awaited in the final, and that was the end of ever winning Wimbledon again for Graf.
SoulPowerful 1 year ago
@SoulPowerful This wasn't the semifinals, this is the quarterfinals, Steffi Graf went on to play Mirjana Lucic in the semifinals, she beat her before she lost to Davenport
Prolife29 1 year ago
@shirgen6 She was still 29 when she won the French Open, maybe that's what you were thinking of :-)
lionheart007 1 year ago
You can tell Venus was intimidated by her--NOT Serena.
That was the difference.
pearpeas 1 year ago
@pearpeas Thats what I thought, thanks
mattkris2007 1 year ago
@pearpeas I don't think Venus was intimidated by Steffi, she had after all won their last 2 matches. I thought Venus was very bold in this match and played very well, but Graf was just the better player that time.
lionheart007 1 year ago
Does anyone know if Steffi had announced her retirement before Wimbledon, or did she do it after the tournament?
mattkris2007 1 year ago
@mattkris2007 If I remember correctly, she announced her retirement several weeks after Wimbledon.
yevshif 1 year ago
@yevshif Yeah she announced her retirement in SanDiego but the writing was on the wall as she said after the French it was her last French Open and the same after Wimbledon. Wimbledon meant the most to her so once it ended so did Graf's passion for the sport. Many felt she should have played the US Open but at that stage her drive had gone and no player is any good without that.
mohawk393939 1 year ago
@yevshif Why did she reitre around this time? I mean she seemed very fit and healthy here. I saw atleast 3 or 5 more years of tennis in her.
nickelwindow53 1 year ago
@nickelwindow53 I guess you should ask Steffi :) She lost Wimbledon final and in SanDiego she was injured ...
yevshif 1 year ago
@mattkris2007 She'd been hinting at it for a while, like after she won the French she said it was her last appearance there. Then after the Wimbledon final she said she wouldn't be back next year. It wasn't until after Wimbledon, August I believe, when she had to retire from a match during a tournament in California that she decided to retire shortly after.
lionheart007 1 year ago
@mattkris2007
Yes she announced her retirement shortly before the US Open that year
StevieNicksfann 1 year ago
Comment removed
yescanto 1 year ago
Comment removed
mattkris2007 1 year ago
@shirgen6
She made the Wimbledon 99 final at age 30.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@shirgen6
Well, Graf wasn't 29.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
Yes, Graf is the greatest. She was No. 1 for a record 377 consecutive weeks, has won the most grand slam singles titles in the open era, has won every single grand slam at least 4 times, is the only player to have won the Calender Golden Slam. Won the Calender Grand Slam when the slams were on 3 different surfaces. reached 31 grand slam finals....need I go on? She also managed to have a winning record against all of the other top female players when she was past her peak.
oobalavivida 2 years ago
All those saying Venus was near her prime are delusional, Come on you can see how emotional she is and how immature her game is, yeh she was playing great wimbledon 00 onwards but The venus of 02/03 was nearer to her prime, and the venus of 08 Wimbledon was some of the best ever, in terms of her grass court prowess, and of course her volleys were alot stronger too. Wimbledon is the only place I believe Venus would beat her these days though. And yes Steffi is one of the greatest
quiet1234 2 years ago 2
@quiet1234
In 1999 Venus won 6 tournaments. In how many years did she win more?
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
@quiet1234 And do you think Graf was near her prime here!? That is even more delusional. 1999 was in fact one of Venus's best overall years ever, atleast her 4th best behind 2000, 2001, and 2002. She won 6 tournaments this year, did well in all the slams, and was a contender on all surfaces. Graf had already lost to Schnyder, Halard, Sugiyama, Serna, in the past year at the time of this match, players she beat everytime in her sleep in her prime.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
@grafgirl27
Just imagine what peak Graf of 88/89 or 95/96 would have done with 2003-2010 Venus ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 LOL! U must be smoking drugs! Steffi was one of the greatest players ever, yes, BUT in their Primes on grass at Wimbledon, Steffi would have been SMOKED liked bacon against either Serena/Venus.... pleeeease. The Williams OWN Wimbledon, 9 out of the last 11 wimbledons they've WON.... with more to come and they are not fully fit yet, still on come-backs, yet still winning Slams in new Era outlasting their former rivals, i.e. Hingis, Henin, Davenport, Mauresmo etc. Williams own Grass!
Galactus247 1 year ago
@Galactus247
A clearly over-the-hill Graf beat 19-year-old Venus in Wimbledon 99.
In one of Venus's best years ever, just 1-2 years before her peak.
In which year did Venus win more matches or tournaments than in 1999?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 U lost the plot! Steffi was not over the Hill in 1999. In fact she was playing some of her best Tennis, esp after beating Hingis, Davenport et al in French Open and reaching Wimbledon Final '99. In fact Venus and Serena are approaching Steffi's age when she bowed out in '99 and still winning Slams, Serena twice this year. Venus won NO slams in 1999. But she went on to win many thereafter, so your 'point' is pointless!
Galactus247 1 year ago
@Galactus247
In the last 12 months before her retirement in August 1999 Steffi lost to Serna, Sugiyama, Schnyder, Halard. She won only 3 tournaments.
That is far, far over the hill compared to her prime. She was visibly slower on the court, made more unforced errors.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
If was 'far over the hill' like you say, then I guess it makes it even more amazing she beat the 20 year old Venus, who was almost unbeatable at the time, here at Wimbledon! Go Steffi!
eric251982 1 year ago
@eric251982
Venus was not unbeatable in 1999. And she had better years in 2000-02. But the fact remains that 1999 was one of her best years ever. 6 tournament wins, 61 matches won. In that regard only 2002 was better.
1999 Venus was definitely better than Venus from 2004 until today. Close to her peak.
Steffi was far below her former peak, though.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
I can see what you mean about Steffi in 1999. At the French I truly feel she played the best tennis of her life. That final against Hingis was incredible. I felt like something was off by the time Wimbledon came around.
eric251982 1 year ago
@eric251982
No way Steffi played the best tennis of her life at the FO 99!
Especially the Hingis match - in part due to the windy conditions - was only an average performance from her. Considerably worse than the Venus match at Wimbledon.
Perhaps you are too young to have watched Steffi's truly great matches in Wimbledon 88, 89, 92 (semis and finals). And in several other slams in the mid-90s.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago