i call bs anytime i see something like "New Testament scholar" this gives way too much credit to a book with a talking snake, talking donkey, unicorns, incest, rape, slavery, a jewish bastard who curses a fig tree, etc. seriously people, it's 2012...
FAIL at 0.22. The infinitely powerful God couldn't muster up enough power to get ANYONE from the time of Jesus to write about his son that could be verified? Huh. Well I guess the default assumption is that like alot of religions from that time period, it started small and then grew until people wrote down the legends, and then the legends became part of the Bible. Thanks for clearly that up.
They lied about that- it has been tested that that sort of trick works well on aloof bypassers and brainwashed people. The power of suggestion is strong! These 3 kids were duping others and admitted it! Yet, it is still considered by the HRC as a miracle!
did Jesus carry the cross- john 19:17), yes, till the seized Simon of Cynere (mark 15:21, matthew 27:32:"... as thet were going out, they met a man from Cyrene... and they force him to carry the cross.").
did both robbers mock Jesus? mark 15:29, yes, but one repent and "defend" Jesus, luke 23:40-43
@2black4bet How does my exposing your violations of the law amount to my trying to get you arrested? I have not turned you in to the FBI nor contacted those whose intellectual property you illegally used. Are you trying to score some persecution or martyrdom points?
As anybody can see, my responses to you have been attempts at rational discussion. Your responses have been fully of ad hominems. You are either incapable of or unwilling to in rational debate.
@2black4bet "you cannot stop me from reaching masses with the truth lol"
On the contrary, I want you to keep at it. Few things cure people of their faith than Christians like you, going on endlessly. I would prefer it if you would cease breaking the law, although claiming that you are exempt from international laws as long as you steal the words from other Christians is definitely the sort of testimony I want others to see.
@2black4bet "The first thing you must learn before you open up the bible". I was a fundamentalist Christian, far more radically devout than you seem to be, for some 20 years before my faith was cured. I know the Bible well enough, probably better than you would seem to.
It is strange that you would invoke Job, since that is one of the primary books of the Bible that cured my faith. Few things are more effective at creating atheists out of Christians than thoroughly reading the entire Bible.
@2black4bet BTW, I keep encountering Christians who speak of something called an "evolutionist". What in the world is an "evolutionist"?
Your statement "I thought science was fact not theory" is one of the most uneducated statements I've seen in many years. Please tell me you're not THAT badly educated. If you meant that statement sincerely, you should sue whatever schools you might have attended to get your money back (including taxes your family paid to any public school you attended).
@2black4bet I do not debate creationism with adults for the same reasons that I don't debate the possible existence of the Easter Bunny with adults. For some reason you seem to be of the mistaken belief that I am going to suddenly decide that there is enough doubt about Easter Bunnyism and/or creationism to warrant a debate.
The scientific use of the word "theory" is not the same as the everyday, common use of that term. If you'd ever opened a science book you'd ought to know that.
@2black4bet "Works that are not protected by copyright law include" None of which has anything to do with the works you plagiarized. Don't you think it would do more for your public image and credibility just to admit your fault, and then not to plagiarize any longer, instead of trying to mount some sort of defense against your actions? Your continued defense of deceptively presenting the words of others as your own only decreases your public image. Be an adult, admit fault, move on.
In compliance with MrScientists aka Mrcopyright lawyer new copyright laws I will cite my last post taken from nova.edu [online]retrieved Resurrection day he is risen! 2011
Off topic: Your grammar has been inconsistent in these posts 2black, so I googled a few words and it seems you are copying and pasting roughly 75% of your replies here. Got any thoughts of your own?
No I dont have any thoughts of my own NONE of us have a single thought of our own But instead knowledge is obtained knowledge which ultimately comes from God. that's the problem with you atheist you think just because you discover it (really you uncovered it, it was already was there God always existed he is self existent ) u created it WRONG you will find truth everywhere you turn you cant deny that voice in your head speaking as you speak or right before how does the naturalist explain that?
were do you think Dr Erhman obtained his knowledge you think it fell out of the sky? or maybe he was born with the knowledge of the contradictions of the bible? Is it genetic/ is there a smart gene? lol please you atheist kill me with your predisposed conditions for life based on nothing but a made up theory which you call science why dont u google science tell me if what you believe, Darwinism, matches those qualifications. If your so much smarter than God make another earth and live there
Anyone can see the blatant contradictions in the gospels by doing a horizontal reading. As for evolution...Science has moved on since Darwin's day friend. Evolution has been independently confirmed in at least a dozen different fields of study. Everything points to the same conclusion, and there is a good reason why evolution is the unifying theme in biology. Look up "Modern evolutionary synthesis" and learn a thing or two before embarrassing yourself further on this issue.
@bdwilson1000: 2black's own words are easy to identify. If the sentence has anything approaching good grammar and spelling, then 2black probably copied it. When the text is rambling nonsense, it is probably 2blacks. Nothing unusual here, Christian who frequent these social media to "defend" Christianity routinely plagiarize. And, for that matter, they routinely commit libel.
lets look past the smoke screens fellas and get back to debate Its your turn to defend what you believe and you are allowed to use other sources you have no choice no idea is original there is nothing new under the sun! do I have to cite that truth too ok (King Solomon)lol science-a branch of knowledge or study dealing with the facts or truths,not theories,systematically, not randomly, arranged and showing the operation of general,not incidental or secondary.EXPLAIN how Darwinism isscience
There is no such thing as Darwinism. I told you to look up the modern evolutionary synthesis. We know that you are familiar with Google, so try using it to learn something outside Christian mythology. Learn about atavisms, vestigial organs, endogenous retroviruses, human chromosome #2, and various other pieces of evidence that prove beyond doubt that humans are the products of evolution and related to every other animal on planet earth, some more closely than others.
@bdwilson1000 there is no real evidence for your mythology science cannot prove beyond a doubt that humans evolved from turnips just because you find an extra toe on a horse does not prove macro evolution occurred there are extra toes on humans. your confusing an observation like vestigial organs with a non repeatable origin science like creationism and macroevolution. in other words just because you observe something in nature does not mean you solved the question of the origin of nature
@bdwilson1000 all these fancy terms and scientific studies do not explain the origin of species where did matter come from? Its sort of like you asking me who invented basketball and I start telling you about Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen! lol in other words im using the icon (Micheal Jordan) as the argument When I combine H + O2 we get water every time.That is science not some theory at best some made up fantasy about rats becoming dolphins and apes becoming astronauts you need more proof
I gave you suggestions for further research on another thread such as Talkorigins and the Berkley evolution page. Please take a break for a few weeks and learn what the science says. You are confusing multiple disciplines with each other as well as misrepresenting what the science says in each area. For biological facts, I recommend "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne and perhaps "The Grand Design" by Hawking in the area of physics. Come back after you learn a thing or two.
@2black4bet ignorantly said, "When I combine H + O2 we get water every time." Answer: Actually, no, you don't. First of all, you cannot combine Hydrogen and Oxygen in those ratios, and even if you could the result wouldn't be water. It is 1/2 H2 + O2 to get water, and then only when there is a spark or sufficient heat. Plus, you don't always get water: sometimes you get H2O2, which is hydrogen peroxide. You really should learn something about science before posting in your ignorance.
You're wasting your time. Before I will even talk about science with someone I first have to see some evidence that they understand what science is. When someone suggests that science can "prove beyond a doubt" then I know I'm dealing with someone ignorant of what science is. He also seems to think that scientific conclusions have to be observable or they don't count. That's funny because that's the whole point of science, to explain things that can't be directly observed.
@h8uall66 Thanks. I am, obviously, quite aware that @2black4bet is utterly ignorant of science -- or, for that matter, even basic critical thinking skills. I just want to make that point clear to people -- this is what devout Christianity does to people, it causes them to reject rationality, to reject multiple branches of scientific study, all to maintain belief in ancient myths. Though I have to admit I was totally astonished when 2black claimed to be exempt from laws b/c they were "pagan".
@ScientistKeith my point was not to be molecularly correct if there is such a term lol why dont you address the issues instead of bring up non essentials like whether or not I plagiarized or not Ridiculous you have no solid argument for any of your beliefs so this has become your argument sort of like evolutionist who have no solid proof of the origin of species or macroevolution so they make up arguments We are one body in Christ we dont care about pagan copyright laws man were Christians lol
@2black4bet "my point was not to be molecularly correct"
Keith -- I have no doubt that you have no interest in whether you post CORRECT claims. You posted a FALSE claim about chemistry, I corrected you. How is that off-topic? How is making ACCURATE statements "ridiculous"?
@2black said, "we dont care about pagan copyright laws man were Christians lol"
Keith -- So, now you're exempt from the laws because the laws are "pagan"? Jury deliberations ought to be fun on that defense.
And even if evolution were disproven tomorrow, it would not justify the "magic man did it" hypothesis by default. Let's assume that all of our knowledge of biology vanished and we had no explanation for the diversity of life. You still have ALL your work ahead of you to make the case for magic man. You need to show that an immaterial being is something other than a contradiction in terms, then you need to explain how such a being can influence the physical realm. Readyyy? Go.
Ehe resurrection is not something we believe through blind faith, but rather something we accept through faith in evidence. Christ suffered fatal torment, the tomb was empty, He appeared and gave many convincing proofs that He was alive and a band of scared, scattered disciples were transformed into lions of the faith who turned an empire upside down.
Matthew Mark Luke dont give any accounts for the deity of Christ? that was an idea invented later by John really? what bible is this guy reading ? the Jehovah witness cult bible?lol read Christs words to the Sanhedrin in Matthew 24:30 and tell me He wasn't saying metaphorically He was God lol doesn't get any bolder than that! a biblical illiterate person or someone with a clear intent to discredit truth like Dr Erhman might not get it but the Jews did this is why they sought to kill him
WHAT DAY DID HE DIE? WHAT TIME OF DAY? b4 i totally dismantle this so called contriadiction let me first say that I read the Drs book on contradictions in the bible and it is clear he is bent on making Christ out to be a false prophet and why do I care? u ask because "truth matters" "what is truth" u and Piliate asks?learn how to read// In Jewish idiom any part of a day counted as a day–night unit. Therefore, there is no need to literalistically demand that seventy two hours be accounted for.
we must be carefull not to confuse the bible with contemporary writings Scribes wrote what was dictated to them so the author is irrelevant marks gospel for instance is based on the testimony of Peter written down by mark Mark was not an eyewittness Its assinine to think that someone is walking behind Christ with a pen and paper taking notes lol peter carried a sword my friend not a PEN Matthew was originally in Aramaic or Hebrew and attributes the gospel to Matthew the apostle.
who is this guy?historians and credible scholors look for this reliable core of an event to validate historical accounts liberal and conservative scholars agree that the body of Jesus was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and as a member of the Jewish court that convicted Jesus Christ to death, he's unlikely to be Christian fiction. if the post said there were 2 million at the yankees parade and the daily news said 3m do they contradict or complement? think people
@2black4bet Having read your comments on the gospels, I am not all that concerned with whether they contradict each other (which they most certainly do). What I *am* concerned about is the complete lack of ANY reference to him made during his alleged lifetime. Now, if he was just an ordinary person, it would be completely understandable if there were no surviving references to him. But, surely there would be some independent documentation of some sort if he really were doing (continued...)
.... independent documentation of some sort if he really were doing the amazing things depicted in the Bible. He's raising the dead, has thousands following him around, performing healing miracles, walking on water, getting in trouble with the Romans and the Sanhedrin, goes before Pilate and Herod Antipas, got crucified, rose from the dead, etc. That is far from being an ordinary Joe, don't you agree? And yet, there's not a single word about him written at the time
@ScientistKeith there was not 50 differenct news channels back then CNN CNBC NBC ABC the bible is all you will get but as formentioned the bible is just not one source its many sources in one cannon they didnt have the internet where you can send information across the world as soon as it happens this is ancient times people wake up Americans i tell you we live in a microwave society It took Hanibal 5 months to travel just from Spain to Italy! REGARDING YOU TOTAL DISCREDIT OF NON CHRISTIAN
sources such as Cornelius Tacitus, Josephus AGAIN you and the idiot in this clip are clearly bias on this subject .For one if I told you that a well known and respected historian such as Alison Weir wrote an bio MLK jr and you told me she was not credible and MLK jr didnt exist because she was not a direct eye wittness I would say you had a bias towards the subject and maybe your a racist If she wrote a bio on hitler and the holocaust and u said No didnt happen she wanst there....u get my point
".For one if I told you that a well known and respected historian such as Alison Weir wrote an bio MLK jr and you told me she was not credible and MLK jr didnt exist because she was not a direct eye wittness"
There are many thousands of independent references to MLK Jr. to corroborate such a book. I would still want independently corroborated sources on EVERY CLAIM the book made about MLK Jr.
@ScientistKeith So, we have corroboration on MLK Jr. But what of claims made about G W Bush in books by either his most devoted supporters or his worst enemies, claims that are not corroborated anywhere else by anyone else? We know he exists, we know these people personally know him. So, shall we accept everything they say about him? No, of course not. We ask for corroboration, both from his supporters and his enemies.
Luke, who was not an apostle, had no biases,but because he is in the BIBLE he is for some odd reason is considred part of the same "CULT" of christianity He would be a present day Sherlock Holmes He gathered eyewitness testimony and “carefully investigated everything” (Luke 1:1-3). Peter reminded his readers that the disciples “were eyewitnesses of His majesty” and “did not follow cleverly invented stories” (2 Pet. 1:16). Truly, the Bible affirms the eyewitness credibility of its writers.
@ScientistKeith this is the reason I beleive God incarnate did not write the "book of Jesus" we dont just have Jesus and his followers writing about miriacles and his diety. we have luke a historian and the forementioned jewish historians which corroborate Luke. On one hand you say the bible was not written by the disciples but on the other hand you say the bible cant be trusted cause the apostles were the only ones who wrote about Christ," they were in the same cult" well which one is it?
@2black4bet What can be trusted is evidence from multiple sources (but not all on the same side, we need both sides of the story), as well as corroborating archeological or other physical evidence. Even then, it can only be trusted to the extent of the quality of the data. I SAY THIS ABOUT ALL CLAIMS, whether someone claiming something about Obama, G W Bush, Jim Jones, or Jesus of Nazareth. Testimonies need to be first hand, eyewitness accounts, written at or near the time the events occurred
@ScientistKeith were talking in circles here AGAIN you are under the false notion that everyone in the bible was on the "same side" that is a falsehood and a dogmatic assumption that doesn't line up with the facts Dr Luke was not an apostle or a disciple but a private investigator who just researched the facts in addition there are several non christian historians verified Christ as an actual person are non bias credible sources as well no need to elaborate further Ive posted enough evidence
@2black4bet As you are willing to denounce entire fields of scientific study, it is no surprise that you are unwilling to accept routine study of history. Instead you keep informing me of what it is that I supposedly believe, though you don't know me. I asked for the same level of evidence that you yourself would require from similar claims from other groups, and for this you denounce me.
So, yes, there is no reason for you to continue posting until you're willing to have civil discussions.
@ScientistKeith I just systematically proved the historical evidence in the bible is reliable go back and read the prior post U would accept a 21st century's account of MLK if there were 'independently corroborated sources on EVERY CLAIM the book made about MLK Jr.than you must accept Dr Lukes version of Christ which was corroborated by the synoptic gospels and later non christian historians if your honest u would admit whether or not Dr King smoked cigarettes is not an essential CLAIM lol
@2black4bet On the contrary, you provided no INDEPENDENT corroboration at all. As I've stated before, trivial contradictions aren't very interesting to me. I am very concerned about evidence for major claims. The material that is nearly the same in all the gospels is adequate SAME SOURCE corroboration for establishing what some of the beliefs some early Christian groups taught. It says nothing about whether those beliefs were factual.
It is not possible for persons within a group to provide independent corroboration. Go back to my cult testimony example. Or consider members of a gang all telling the police they didn't break into that house. It doesn't matter how many of them tell their tale, they are coming from the same source, that being the community whose claims are in question. Only outside EYEWITNESSES can provide INDEPENDENT corroboration.
@2black4bet [part 3] Ancient historians, no matter how well-respected, didn't have scientific means to examine testimonies. All they could do is pass along what tales were being told. Therefore, they cannot provide CORROBORATION. And, the ancient non-Christian historians you mention do not even discuss the details in the gospels. The historians just mention the existence of first century Christians in passing, and nobody is denying that those Christians existed.
@ScientistKeith "didn't have scientific means to examine testimonies" .lets move on lol clearly your bias on the subject when u make comments like this what scientific means does one need to conduct an investigation of an event a lie detector test ???lol aww man lets move on here now its your turn you prove what you believe to be true since you like using the word scientific and science all the time i took the liberty to look it up for you as i previously stated science supports ID
@2black4bet "i previously stated science supports ID"
I will not debate with you the claims of creationists, even when they make-believe they are real science by calling their religious doctrines "ID". The nonsensical claims of creationists have been thoroughly and repeatedly refuted. They have nothing to do with science. Again, I will no more debate this topic with you than I would debate the relatively more likely issue of whether there is an Easter Bunny
@ScientistKeith I didnt say ID doctrines were real science I said science supports a ID biblical worldview you claim you dont want to make this an ID vs Darwinism/philosophical naturalism debate but you say comments like prove the deity of Christ well since Christ is the one who spoke and the universe came into existence ultimately this is a ID vs Darwin debate there is no denying that When you deny the deity of Christ and the validity of those who wrote about him you are denying there is a GOD
again Dr Luke is an INDEPENDENT corroboration he was not an apostle or a disciple but you ignore that historical fact.Luke is considered one of the 4 gospels but he is not the SAME SOURCE as M Mk and John since it is well known that he was not an eyewitness In fact James the half brother of Christ did not believe until after he saw Him resurrected from the dead Familiarity breeds contempt!! The evidence collected by Luke and James most likely is what convinced him just like it convinced myself
@ScientistKeith 2ndly I think ive proven the non-christian Jewish sources such as Josephus I cited which u ignore are all INDEPENDENT corroborations of Dr Lukes version of Christ the fact that they wrote after the advent is irrelevant since we accept a current day historians versions of "the life of MLK jr" SO now MR SCIENTIST its your turn to prove what you claim I love science I dont denounce science Science proves ID not anything else you may believe what is this "scientific study"u speak of?
@2black4bet Please study up on Josephus, with particular emphasis on what scholars say about his alleged remarks about Jesus, to learn why I wouldn't take much account of that. Likewise, kindly study what scholars have to say on the nature and origin of the gospels, to learn why I respond as I do.
I don't know who "we" is in "we accept a current day historians" (sic), might include, but it wouldn't be myself. I examine evidence the historian might present, I don't just take their word for it.
@ScientistKeith clearly have a bias against the evidence in the bible for one you continue to claim it is "the same source" simply because it is in the same book isn't it a fact that the bible was not canonized until 3rd century?so in fact the bible is not one independent source on the same side but a collection of independent sources over a span of 1500 years written by 40 different authors both new and old testaments secondly Josephus wasnt the only historian i cited as a corroboration of luke
ID, like all forms of creationism, is less worthy of debate than whether there is an Easter Bunny. I will not make believe that there is something worthy of adult conversation, when there is none. You keep bringing it up, but to embrace creationism is to embrace something sillier than believing in the Easter Bunny. I refuse to debate anyone on that topic as there isn't anything to debate.
@2black4bet Again, on the issue of early non-Christian sources: those sources confirm the existence of Christianity in the second half of the first century. However, that Christianity existed at that time is not in question or disputed by anyone that I know of, since there are multiple sources demonstrating that. But, there is no CONTEMPORARY non-Christian sources that discuss whether the Christian claims about Jesus were factual.
@ScientistKeith now your changing the requirements on me of course you make the requirements stringent for Luke because your a skeptic. so now not only do you want non christian sources but now they have to be "contemporary" after 18th or 19th C?21st C a few weeks ago you told me Luke and the other non christian sources were not credible because they came after the death of Christ and now you telling me you need a source from 2000 yrs after the death of Christ well which one is it?
@2black4bet said: "a few weeks ago you told me Luke and the other non christian sources were not credible because they came after the death"
I really don't know why I bother to continue this conversation (sigh). Contemporary, in this context, means at or near the time of the events in question. I checked several online dictionaries, which list this as primary meaning of "contemporary". Thus, as I said, they weren't written at or nearly at the time of the events, while memories were fresh.
@ScientistKeith BUT MY POINT WAS YOU GLADLY ACCEPT OTHER ACCOUNTS OF HISTORY WITHOUT THAT SAME REQUIREMENT LIKE HOMER OR PLATO you said you would compare a bio of MLKjr with others to validate its authenticity right well thats what the bible is Its a comparison of thousands of manuscripts from hundreds of sources 2.ancient text cannot be analyzed the same way we analyze literature today why one reason is because they didnt record events the same way we do 2day authorship were not relevant
other accounts of history don't go contrary to ALL of our background knowledge in the realm of biology (resurrection), medicine (spontaneous healing), gravity, (floating bodily up to the sky) etc. At most historically you can establish there was an apocalyptic Jewish teacher around that time. Historians must establish what most probably happened in the past, and magic/miracles are by definition the least likely things imaginable. Otherwise they would not be called miracles.
@bdwilson1000 were open minded to the realm of the supernatural you who have closed your mind to this realm and are clearly in denial, just by the literal meaning of the word you cannot explain the conscience with science.so to defend your faith you make dogmatic assertions like "God must not exist" or "well science hasnt figured it out yet" lol well you never will Let me also tell you for certain what you will never "figure out " or duplicate scientifically 1 GOD 2 HUMAN LIFE 3 G-FORCES
medicines dont cure your sickness they only alleviate certain symptoms until body thats right your body heals itself! MIRACLE of God not science! I know what your thinking natural selection has killed everyone who could not heal their cuts, they all bleed to death right lol we believe in miracles like the human eye but not in false prophets like Todd Benley or Benny Hinn but in the creator God who doesn't need to perform any more miracles for he raised himself from the dead "it is finished"
@2black4bet You keep insisting that you know what I think or how I would react, you've done that several times. You have been wrong on all occasions. Kindly stop.
I do not accept Homer or Plato as history and for the same reasons I don't accept the Bible as history.
If we are not able to establish whether an account is historical, then we need to just say so, instead of saying it is historically accurate without adequate reason.
Quantity of manuscripts doesn't affect historical accuracy.
@ScientistKeith dont believe there was a city of Atlantis either but do u believe a man named Plato actually existed? that he was a historical figure?But Christ as you claim was a Myth?The Bible, compared with other ancient writings, has more manuscript evidence than any 10 pieces of classical literature combined the point being that we accept these writers as actually existing but we for some reason degrade Christ to a myth. we could take the next step and consider its theological reliability
@2black4bet Someone claiming to be Plato wrote the Platonic literature, so yes, that author exited. Whether his name was actually Plato, or whether that was a pen name, I have no idea. Socrates might have been fictitious, however. I don't know. I think it is likely that there was some preacher or preachers upon whom the Christ story may have been based. But, the Jesus of Christian literature appears to be a myth.
@ScientistKeith whether or not you believe Christ was resurrected is up to the individual but to say Christ wasn't a historical figure is an outright lie. the apostles claimed that Christ appeared to hundreds of people who were still alive and available for cross-examination (1 Cor. 15:6)no one has ever come up with a credible means to explain away the post-resurrection appearances of Christ. the references to Christ’s appearances are early and free from legendary corruption.
There is a clear legendary development from Paul's "vision" experience..to Mark's physical resurrection (but no appearances)..to the later more embellished resurrection appearances...ultimately ending up with John's "doubting Thomas" story which appears nowhere else. I don't know what you are talking about if you don't see legendary development here. The evidence is scant at best..but even if we had 10X as many written reports, it would not establish the magical conclusion.
if your professor is Bart Ehrman, watch out for the obfuscation! a suggestion that the Gospels contain contradictory versions of Christ’s life is never substantiated. In reality, far from being contradictory, the Gospels are clearly complementary. If they all had the same events skeptic would scream collusion. I did not see Mickey but i saw Goofy you went and did not see Goofy but did see Mickey Does this mean that we both are liars and did not go to Disney at all ?or Mickey/Goofy don't exist?
@2black4bet Christian literature, which contains much that was not canonized into the NT, contain many contradictory claims about Jesus. This is exactly what one would expect of a mythological character. While there very well may have been some historical preacher(s) upon whom the myths were based, You mentioned "early" references to so-called post-resurrection appearances. I am not aware of any such documentation. Kindly specify what those might be.
@ScientistKeith Gnostic writings were left out of the cannon because of the lack of authenticity Exactly why did apostolic Christianity survive and thrive? Robert Speer proclaims that "Christianity lived because it was true to the truth" The New Testament consistently claims that Jesus Christ is God (e.g., His deity is unequivocally affirmed by the Gospel writers (Matt. 1:23; John 20:28), the Apostle Paul (Rom. 9:5; Col. 2:9), and Jesus Himself (John 8:24 and 58)
friends and foes, reported that Jesus had risen from the dead and had appeared to them. this is reported by Paul (1 Cor. 15:11), by a disciple of Peter named Clement (1 Clement 42:3), and by various early oral traditions in the NT(1 Cor. 15:3–7).4 a skeptic (James) and an enemy of Jesus (Paul) became followers of Jesus after experiencing post- resurrection appearances,willing to suffer continuously and die for their testimony that they had seen the risen Jesus. Liars make poor martyrs
You are basing all this on one report from one guy (Paul) who likely had epilepsy judging from the description of his conversion experience. One guy who witnessed none of this stuff is giving you an **anecdote** that he heard about "hundreds" of people who saw Jesus. Be honest. If I produced a book today claiming that the author knew about 1,000 people who saw Ronald Reagan raised from the dead, would that "evidence" count for a damn thing in your eyes? Would you believe it?
why didn't anyone refute Paul then why wait till 2011 on youtube lol If the resurrection appearances were merely hallucinations, Jesus’ body would have remained in the tomb. show me Regans empty tomb If the tomb had been occupied, authorities would only have had to go to the tomb and view the corpse and the claim of a resurrection would have been demolished immediately, but there is no indication that this occurred.
@2black4bet "why didn't anyone refute Paul then" They did - look up Celsus and Lucian for starters, and they were only part of a tradition of Roman philosophers who opposed Christianity. As for the empty tomb, the four Gospel accounts are inconsistent with one another. Graves are robbed, people in comas wake up, people hallucinate, women tell stories. The simplest explanation cannot be that an extradimensional being resurrected the body and then teleported it to Cloudcuckooland. Read David Hume.
Paul wrote the first epistle to the Corinth (53-57AD) Lucian was born until 125AD Celsus? 2nd C come on man how could they have possibly refuted Paul or interviewed any possible eyewitness of Christs resurrection? why didnt anyone after 60AD check Pauls account there were 500 witnesses? Rome opposed Christianity all right they even claimed that someone stole the body embarrassed and ashamed at the reality of the fact of Christs deity they probably sought to destroy any evidence he even existed
@2black4bet The ancient Egyptians built the pyramids as resurrection machines. Those tombs are empty. Does that mean those pharaohs were resurrected. The Muslims say that Mohamed ascended into heaven and his body has never been found. So, does that mean he really ascended bodily into heaven? By you logic it does.
BTW, the location of Jesus tomb, if there ever were one, is not known. So, we can hardly know that it is empty or even whether it ever existed.
@ScientistKeith Muhammad's body is still buried in Medina. In fact according to the Koran when jesus returns he will die again lol and his body will be buried next to Muhammad in Medina where he awaits judgment from Allah because he died not knowing if he would go to heaven (please note Allah is not the same God of the Bible but a false god lower case g) Jesus according to the Koran is in heaven with Allah(Koran 3,55;4,158,159) lol confusing isnt it I know please dont compare myths to the bible
@2black4bet I am happy to admit it when I make a mistake. Although Muhammad is said to have ascended bodily into heaven, he supposed came back and got buried. So, I was partly wrong on that bit.
However, there are leaders of other religions whose tombs are empty.
What I said about the pharaohs is definitely true: all of the bodies of those pharaohs who were buried in the pyramids are missing. Those tombs are empty. So, doesn't that mean they got resurrected?
@ScientistKeith Egyptian pharaohs are dead mummified but clearly dead. there bodies were preserved by people not God. check out Ramses II 3000 yr old dead body in an Egyptian Mummy museum in Cairo, By the way Krishna is dead too. where are you getting your facts from sci fi films like Indiana Jones and the temple of doom? Buddha, Joseph Smith, James Warren "Jim" Jones, Muhammad, Oprah and her spiritual guru will die but Jesus is alive forevermore!
@2black4bet I was not referring to Egyptian mummies nor to the New Kingdom practice of burying pharaohs in King's Valley. I was VERY CLEAR. I stated the Pharaoh's that were buried in the PYRAMIDS. Those tombs are empty and have been for thousands of years. Since an empty tomb, according to you, means a certainty of resurrection, if believers claim there was a resurrection, then you must conclude those Pharaohs buried IN PYRAMIDS (not elsewhere) were resurrected.
@ScientistKeith are there any accounts for the missing bodies other than there not there today or a mythological belief in a resurrection perhaps a tomb raider like Indiana Jones or my favorite Angelina Jolie took them lol the bible has Manuscript, Archeological ,and Predictive Prophetic evidence we have more evidence than an empty tomb which is essential to the Christian world view but its not the only natural evidence we have to validate the faith
@2black4bet The pyramids were built as resurrection machines, complete with corridors the dead were supposed to traverse to ascend to the gods. The fact that they are not in those tombs is proof positive, according to your standards, that the devices actually worked (on at least some of the pharaohs). As with you and your Jesus character, there are always naysayers who speak of tomb robbers or something, but you know that resurrection is the real truth.
@ScientistKeith No religion or culture on earth has more specificity in its earliest historical records than the Torah The myth of the Isis cult concerned Osiris, her husband during the earlier Egyptian and nonmystery stage of the religion.Comparisons between the resurrection of Jesus and the resuscitation of Osiris are greatly exaggerated.Not every version of the myth has Osiris returning to life; in some he simply becomes king of the underworld. its an interesting story makes 4 good movies too
you don't know much about religion or history do you? yet you pretend to...
google "Zoroastrianism", it predates christianity by 3000 years...and guess what? the exodus NEVER happened! i wonder what else isn't true in the bible?
No exodus?a nomadic,tribal migration would hardly leave behind permanent stone foundations of imposing buildings en route. what does that mean the Magi predated Christianity? Moses predated Jesus whats your point lets look at what the Magi believed shall we?The Zoroastrians main vehicle for discovering God's nature and uncovering His plans was the stars. We have the stars(creation)and Christ So they are going to heaven Gandhi who had the revelation of Christ and rejected him, HELL very simple
check your inbox sparkles! and if ghandi is in 'hell', it just confirms that your chosen 'god' is a fucking PSYCHOPATH that i want nothing to do with.
and so...the only 'proof' you have for your 'god' is "stars" and "christ"? god thing you weren't born in the middle east or you'd be telling me bullshit about allah.
equip.org Hank (the bible answer man) I also like my spiritual father Bishop Eric Lambert Jr's interpretation of scripture Its pure, that is based purely on the infallible word of God unlike false teachers like TD Jakes, Benny Hinn google him for a good laugh. I listen to Hank and others like him who are preaching the truth every night Christians dont care about quoting each other because we understand all truth ultimately comes from God THIS2ndly IS YOUTUBE MAN IM NOT SELLING ANY POST!
when did you become a copyright lawyer? I always use other peoples words as my own as you do. you weren't born with the knowledge of anything including natural selection buddy We believe Christ was the only man on earth who presented His own words because He is God-the sole creator of matter itself Im sure Hank and all the apologists Ive studied under would be honored I used some of their arguments( which they've obtained from someone over them and so on all the way back to Moses)
@ScientistKeith u see how the athiest ducks and dodges the truth by accusing someone of plagiarism on a youtube debate what is this grad school? do you want me to send a post of all my sources? Citation laws on utube you kidding me? you dont have any sound argument so you attack my grammar and my use of other sources 75% you or someone said right lol really did you take the time to calculate that percentage? now I see why your an atheist you spend time calculating nothing for nothing
On the contrary, I have PROVEN that you committed plagiarism.
@2black4bet said "Citation laws on utube you kidding me?" Keith Answers: Youtube is not exempt from the legal statutes governing plagiarism. You have repeatedly committed a civil offense and could be sued for thousands of dollars. You have also violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
YOUR DISDAIN FOR THESE LAWS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE YOUR BEING EXEMPT FROM THE LAWS.
again your thinking like a sinner Christians don't sue each other (1Cor 6:1-8)were not concerned (the genuine believers that is) with using truth the word of God which explains everything you need to know about your existence as a pawn for profit. contact my pastor or Hank Hanegraaff the bible answer man or any parishioner, mentor, teacher ive studied under, they would be honored i used any of there arguments in debate just like Darwin would be pleased with a Richard Dawkins and yourself lol
@2black4bet And so, your response is that it's okay to break the law if you feel sure you won't get sued over it? If you can get away with it, then it's just fine to break the law? That is what you're saying! What a Christian concept! After all, in Christianity, you can be absolved and forgiven of any offense, even the most heinous of crimes.. all you have to do is repent, confess, and/or accept Jesus as your savior.
I, however, believe in honesty and taking responsibility for your actions.
@ScientistKeith everyone will take responsibility for their actions on judgment day including Hitler who otherwise, if there were no Hell, would get away with murdering millions Christians are different from sinners in that we accept the truth that no information we obtain comes from our own validity info is posted for everyone to use to defend the cross Check out the websites ive used there are no DISCLAIMERS you are ignorant of the law buddy so stick to trying to discredit the bible
@2black4bet "there are no DISCLAIMERS" Copyright disclaimers are not legally required, they're only a courtesy lawyers like to present. You broke the law, that is all there is to it. It is you who is ignorant, it is you who try to act like you are a representative of what is good and right while simultaneously LYING (or at least being deceptive) by presenting other people's words as your own (which is also illegal).
@ScientistKeith secondly in the concept of being absolved from any sin by confession is not a Christian concept I hate to bash our brothers and sisters in the Lord in the Catholic church but thats what they believe. You can only be forgiven by accepting Christ as Lord not a confession to the pope or priest in a boz behind some veil My favorite scene was in the Godfather when Micheal Corleone went to church and asked for forgiveness really? lol but back to the topic where did matter come from?
@2black4bet Who said anything about popes and priests? I was referring to confessing to god in reverent prayer, but I'd agree with you it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
What sort of matter are you asking about? Different answers for different kinds.
I have honestly answered the few coherent questions you have posed to me. You have not answered all of mine, but still accuse me of "ducks and dodges". Ask me ANY on-topic, cogent question and I will answer it directly. (NOTE: Questions about what I'd do if you put a gun to my head OR about long-since disproved creationist claims are NOT cogent questions and won't be answered.)
@ScientistKeith "who is your Rabbi?" they asked Jesus they wondered where he obtained all this knowledge and truth You know Christ was the only man to not have an earthly teacher He says I only do what I see the Father doing in heaven"(John 5:19) So where did you guys learn all this stuff about Darwin
? is this your own thoughts or did he email you a copy of the origin of the evolution of species?
@2black4bet What is your obsession with Charles Darwin? You have probably used his name more times in this thread than have ever made mention of him in the last 5 or 6 years. I just don't understand your Darwin fixation. It's been 150 years since he published his findings. He was right about some things, he was wrong about some things. Science has moved on quite considerably since his days. You might want to read up a bit before denouncing things you don't understand.
@ScientistKeith who are the pharaohs anyway?ONLY Jesus claimed to be God incarnate and that wasn't an empty boast because through the historic fact of resurrection in which we will celebrate today Christ vindicated his claim of deity Christianity is unique in that it is a coherent belief structure. It has more extra-biblical evidence than any other religion.Some Christian doctrine may transcend comprehension however unlike the claims of other religions they are never contradictory or irrational
@flashoftruth "You didnt watch the video?"lolol aww man where do they find these guys ive also read many of Dr Ehrmans books which one of his so called contradictions( some of which Ive already with no problem debunked days ago go back and read the prior post) do you have a question about? Id like to help you dig through the pile of sensationalist dung the Dr has so successfully dumped on your front lawn I said this was my last post but God said otherwise GO ahead shoot!
for example...let’s review 'free will' versus a 'god-given plan'. you simply cannot have both. if you have free will, then it is not possible for 'Yhwh' to have a plan made out for you. if 'Yhwh' does have a plan for you, then you cannot truly have free will for your destiny is already mapped.
this is an absurdly conflicting paradox, but i'm sure you can "debunk" this right?
@flashoftruth good question! ill answer only if you answer a question of mines what was your relationship like with your father? I must admit this is an in house debate among Christians Calvinist believe you are pre destined to follow a plan of God if you are elect you will make it to heaven if He God being didnt choose you, your destined for hell. rather harsh wouldn't you think? I dont hold the Calvinistic view but rather I believe in the sovereignty of God in that He is not the author of evil
what the hell does my relationship with my father have to do with anything? and you are so used to having unreasonable, illogical, asinine conditions put on you by your 'god' that you think it acceptable to attempt to apply conditions on me? sorry, life doesn't work like that. here i am god and you are just another theist with bullshit excuses for a bullshit story.
fine, don't answer the question i could give a shit. tells me all i need to know..thx!
@flashoftruth now now now your not being fair mr flash i answered all your silly questions which could have been googled by a 3rd grader why wont you answer mines which only you and your earthly father would know I cant google that lol It is said the relationship you have or had with your father could determine the way you think towards your heavenly Father. and yes it is acceptable to attempt to apply Gods conditions on you and everyone as commissioned to to so by God our Father in heaven AMEN
uh, no...no you haven't. you said you could "debunk" Dr. Ehrman's statements, then i gave you a "good question" of contradiction that you haven't "debunked" yet either...and why do you insist on writing "mines"? you look like a 3rd grader that refuses to google the proper spelling. no ebonics allowed here.
& my relationship with my father is NOTHING like the 'relationship' i have with imaginary, psychopathic, mass murdering dictators in the sky. what about MY god's conditions?
@flashoftruth who is this mass murderer you speak of in the sky stop reading ancient Greek mythology God is not in the sky on a cloud throwing lightning bolts lol stick to the bible which is rooted and grounded in history and evidence I apologize what so called contradiction did you want me to debunk there are many in the Dr's sensationalistic writings I thought I answered your question about free will do you have another? I do this for a living you know this is fun for me shoot
"what so called contradiction did you want me to debunk"
pick one...i only asked for one, & you most certainly did not answer my question about 'free will', because i went back to see if i missed something...& if you think what you wrote was an 'answer' you are loopier than i thought. as far as your mass murdering 'god', i must have read a different bible than you...the one i read has numerous accounts of atrocities committed & commanded by the 'god' "Yhwh", who is your 'god'?
@flashoftruth context context context ! Gods punishment for the atrocities (rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, of the Canaanites) was death, Capitol punishment not genocide. I said there are 2 beliefs in the christian world view Calvinism vs Non-Calvinist Google it. I hold the non Calvinistic view which holds to the sovereignty of God and that He knows who will willingly accept him and therefore that makes us "pre-destined" or elected
death death death ! your 'god' and religion are obsessed with it. all of those 'crimes' are punishable by "death"??? so you are admitting your 'god' has the morality of hitler and the logic of a psychopath?
it's FUCKING GENOCIDE & INFANTICIDE YOU DUMBASS no matter how much you want to attempt to put a cherry on a pile of shit. and you do this for a living? where? fantasyland? who pays you for making excuses for crimes against humanity as depicted in your book of bullshit?
Lev18 and elsewhere the Bible reveals that God punished the Canaanites for specific grievous evils.Also this wasn’t the entire destruction of a race as God didn’t order that every Canaanite be killed but only those who lived within specific geographical boundaries (Josh. 1:4).This wasn’t merely punishment, however. God sought to reveal His standards of righteousness to a thoroughly corrupted humankind, and He chose Israel why I don't know What I do know is were lucky we didnt live back then
(cont) instead actualized evil by giving us free will he doesnt make evil people He gave Hitler and you and me free will which actualizes us to do evil. Secondly since God is sovergn knows all sees all sits outside of time in eternity past meaning He is present past and future He already knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him so we are not so predestined by Gods forcing us to do His will but because He is sovereign He already knew before the world was created who would follow
and i'm sure you've seen this headline too...from oct. 5, 2005, "THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true."
I hold no ties with the ROMAN catholic church but instead to the historic Christian faith I could do a whole thesis on the problems with RCC but ill chose not to although they are very superstitious and very weird when it comes to some of there doctrine however they are part of the body of Christ because they do believe in Christ atonement So just like that crazy uncle we have to accept him as part of the family "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."
check your history the RCC was an invention of Emperor/Conqueror/Tyrant Constantine 300 yrs after Christs resurrection Some say he did it to immobilize a fallen Roman Empire they believe in the infallacy of the bible they also assert that the unwritten traditions of the Roman church are just as authoritative. In fact, that’s the reason scores of practices and beliefs which have no basis in Scripture practices like prayers for the dead and beliefs such as the infallibility of the pope.
@2black4bet said, "Some Christian doctrine may transcend comprehension however unlike the claims of other religions they are never contradictory or irrational"
THAT IS HYSTERICALLY FUNNY! Wow! Who knew you were such a comedian?
@ScientistKeith Ive been working with children in school for 3 yrs now in this short time ive learned one thing about children in respect to adults that is we are nothing but children grown up at least chronologically You Keith remind me of the bully in school who finds faults in everyone else to make his self or his situation look better because secretly he is miserable and unsure of himself and in your case what you believe in where you ultimately come from God or Chance? You decide lol
@2black4bet I give up. It is impossible to have any conversation with you. You have insulted me in nearly every post you've made to me. You have no ability to have a cogent, civil debate.
@2black4bet Now, obviously, Ramses II, Tutankhamen, and others must have done something wrong, since they didn't get bodily resurrected, since their remains are with us today. But so many other Pharaohs, especially those who were buried in the PYRAMID, have empty tombs, their remains nowhere to be found. Obviously, they must have been resurrected and taken their place with the other gods in heaven, since an empty tomb, according to you, is proof of resurrection.
@ScientistKeith you continue to play Duck, Duck, the truth !! okay I wont ask you any more questions about your beliefs cause I realize you cant answer to or for a lie unless you lie lol I'm not surprised the bible predicts your answer that you would reject truth for a lie Jesus explains why and this is my last post so pay attention!! "This is the verdict": Jesus says "Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." (John 3:19) AMEN
@2black4bet "you continue to play Duck, Duck, the truth !! okay I wont ask you any more questions about your beliefs"
I directly answered your questions. I don't know what you think it is that I am not willing to answer. Perhaps you thought I was not being forthcoming about the question on the beginning of the universe; however, I gave you an honest answer. The truth is that I don't have a particular opinion about that topic nor am I seeking any, since it doesn't affect my life in any way.
@2black4bet Paul and Clement were not eyewitnesses. And, liars do in fact make excellent martyrs. Public humiliation is a very difficult thing to endure, and a great many people would prefer death to that humiliation. Oral tradition isn't worth the paper it is written on, in terms of determining what is true. Leaders tell their followers whatever it takes to achieve the goals of the leaders, it happens in politics, it happens in religion.
there is no indication of any prior desire for conversion by either of these men.Paul and James are poor candidates for this belief they couldn't endure public humiliation and preferred to die, when they made a conscience decision to follow Christ after the crucifixion and resurrection not before as in the case of Peter subjective theories fail just as thoroughly as did those of 100 yrs ago to undermine the proclamation on which Christian faith has stood firm for 2,000 years: Christ is risen.
@2black4bet The first century was a very turbulent time for Jews and the early Christians. There are any number of reasons why they would have been initially drawn to one of the many messianic groups, from personal survival to survival of their countrymen. Desperate times lead to desperate acts and desperate choices. Caligula, Nero and other Caesars of that era created very desperate times, indeed.
@ScientistKeith well what do you believe ?would you die for your beliefs as Paul did and the apostles and boast about it in his letter to the churches? Keith would you die for your wife, kids, well how about a man who is supposed to be dead? Only if He is GOD would you die for a man you never met in person?what do you believe? what would you fight for? nothing? if i held a gun to your head and asked u to denounce atheism would you die and according to ur faith cease to exist in total darkness
@2black4bet What a strange question. Why in the world would my willingness to die or not to die for a particular reason have to do with whether that cause were factual in nature? Your question suggests that you have psychological problems and I suggest you have yourself evaluated if you spend your days thinking about murdering people to see what they are willing to die for or else contemplating what you might like to get murdered over.
@ScientistKeith ive answered all of your questions why wont you answer any of mines hmmm am i frightening ya pay attention you will DIE one day what happens when you DIE? ANSWER ME How do you believe the universe began and how do you think the first human life came into existence?rather than question my sanity just answer the question and stop playing dodge ball
What happens when we die? We're dead, of course. That seems rather obvious.
Universe began? I am not aware of the universe having a beginning. I have no particular belief on that topic.
First human life? We were crafted by natural selection, same as any other species.
Frightening me? No. But when you spoke of your putting a gun to my head that didn't exact bode well with me, it is not the sort of thing one speaks of duirng civil discourse.
@ScientistKeith Natural selection crafted the first life from what? The 2nd law of thermodynamics, the expanding universe, and Einstein’s general theory of relativity are all accepted observations of modern science they show us that the universe is not eternal it had a beginning. If it had a beginning, then it had a beginner. And this beginner left clear signs of intelligence because this universe includes more than 100 environmental conditions that are precisely tweaked to support life
@2black4bet You did not ask me about "the first life" you asked me about "the first human life". Those are fairly unrelated topics.
Again, I will no more debate creationism with you than I would debate the relatively more likely issue of whether there is an Easter Bunny. Kindly stop attempting to get me to debate that topic. All creationist claims have been thoroughly, repeatedly, and exhaustively refuted. There is nothing within creationist claims that is worthy of debate.
yet for whatever reason this doesn't hold true for your 'god'...why is that? and i think you meant this PLANET, not "this universe"...but that is still no proof that YOUR chosen 'god' exists, or that ANY 'god' exists.
@flashoftruth It is interesting, isn't it, we must answer where life comes from, but not where gods come from. Interesting that.
But, by what stretch of evidence or logic must we conclude that, even if life on this planet did have an "intelligent designer" that must have been a god. Maybe it was a bioforming project by some alien race, who took a lifeless planet and tweaked it to create life of their choosing. I doubt it happened, but it seems more plausible that saying magic gods did it.
i always thought it funny that we could be the product of some 6th grade alien's science project...i don't know how life got here, but i have no doubt it wasn't Yhwh...or Allah, or Ra, or any of the several 1000 'gods' created by man...
@flashoftruth "i always thought it funny that we could be the product of some 6th grade alien's science project."
If so, I think the kid probably got a C- on the project. Any science project that could led to something like bed bugs AND Glenn Beck really isn't all that great of a concept, in my humble opinion.
No.
Case closed.
MrRaspberryBeret 1 week ago
no
EMOspartan911 2 weeks ago
i call bs anytime i see something like "New Testament scholar" this gives way too much credit to a book with a talking snake, talking donkey, unicorns, incest, rape, slavery, a jewish bastard who curses a fig tree, etc. seriously people, it's 2012...
amphibient09 3 weeks ago
zombie jesus!!!
dkthg 1 month ago
FAIL at 0.22. The infinitely powerful God couldn't muster up enough power to get ANYONE from the time of Jesus to write about his son that could be verified? Huh. Well I guess the default assumption is that like alot of religions from that time period, it started small and then grew until people wrote down the legends, and then the legends became part of the Bible. Thanks for clearly that up.
nosuchthing8 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
watch?v=o9ktS2U53Qg Write "Logical Evidences for Islam" and watch it...
There is A Creator. There a religion. Islam is the true religion.
shncsr 6 months ago
@afortaleza
They lied about that- it has been tested that that sort of trick works well on aloof bypassers and brainwashed people. The power of suggestion is strong! These 3 kids were duping others and admitted it! Yet, it is still considered by the HRC as a miracle!
combatives 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
part 3:
oral changes- no. details, yes:
did Jesus carry the cross- john 19:17), yes, till the seized Simon of Cynere (mark 15:21, matthew 27:32:"... as thet were going out, they met a man from Cyrene... and they force him to carry the cross.").
did both robbers mock Jesus? mark 15:29, yes, but one repent and "defend" Jesus, luke 23:40-43
trightwingconspiracy 9 months ago
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trightwingconspiracy 9 months ago
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trightwingconspiracy 9 months ago
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trightwingconspiracy 9 months ago
I believe in Santa before I would believe in a boogey man in the sky!!!
You hear that Santa?
I need a job as a really tall elf??? LOL!
mrfoltz 10 months ago 2
@2black4bet How does my exposing your violations of the law amount to my trying to get you arrested? I have not turned you in to the FBI nor contacted those whose intellectual property you illegally used. Are you trying to score some persecution or martyrdom points?
As anybody can see, my responses to you have been attempts at rational discussion. Your responses have been fully of ad hominems. You are either incapable of or unwilling to in rational debate.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet I'll see your Jesus and raise you three Tooth Fairies and a Bigfoot. LOL
JesusSuckedGayPenis 10 months ago 19
@2black4bet "you cannot stop me from reaching masses with the truth lol"
On the contrary, I want you to keep at it. Few things cure people of their faith than Christians like you, going on endlessly. I would prefer it if you would cease breaking the law, although claiming that you are exempt from international laws as long as you steal the words from other Christians is definitely the sort of testimony I want others to see.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
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2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "The first thing you must learn before you open up the bible". I was a fundamentalist Christian, far more radically devout than you seem to be, for some 20 years before my faith was cured. I know the Bible well enough, probably better than you would seem to.
It is strange that you would invoke Job, since that is one of the primary books of the Bible that cured my faith. Few things are more effective at creating atheists out of Christians than thoroughly reading the entire Bible.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago 3
@2black4bet BTW, I keep encountering Christians who speak of something called an "evolutionist". What in the world is an "evolutionist"?
Your statement "I thought science was fact not theory" is one of the most uneducated statements I've seen in many years. Please tell me you're not THAT badly educated. If you meant that statement sincerely, you should sue whatever schools you might have attended to get your money back (including taxes your family paid to any public school you attended).
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet I do not debate creationism with adults for the same reasons that I don't debate the possible existence of the Easter Bunny with adults. For some reason you seem to be of the mistaken belief that I am going to suddenly decide that there is enough doubt about Easter Bunnyism and/or creationism to warrant a debate.
The scientific use of the word "theory" is not the same as the everyday, common use of that term. If you'd ever opened a science book you'd ought to know that.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet "Works that are not protected by copyright law include" None of which has anything to do with the works you plagiarized. Don't you think it would do more for your public image and credibility just to admit your fault, and then not to plagiarize any longer, instead of trying to mount some sort of defense against your actions? Your continued defense of deceptively presenting the words of others as your own only decreases your public image. Be an adult, admit fault, move on.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
In compliance with MrScientists aka Mrcopyright lawyer new copyright laws I will cite my last post taken from nova.edu [online]retrieved Resurrection day he is risen! 2011
2black4bet 10 months ago
Happy Zombie Jesus Day.
JesusSuckedGayPenis 10 months ago 21
@JesusSuckedGayPenis coward
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet Ooga Booga LOL :D
JesusSuckedGayPenis 10 months ago
Off topic: Your grammar has been inconsistent in these posts 2black, so I googled a few words and it seems you are copying and pasting roughly 75% of your replies here. Got any thoughts of your own?
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
No I dont have any thoughts of my own NONE of us have a single thought of our own But instead knowledge is obtained knowledge which ultimately comes from God. that's the problem with you atheist you think just because you discover it (really you uncovered it, it was already was there God always existed he is self existent ) u created it WRONG you will find truth everywhere you turn you cant deny that voice in your head speaking as you speak or right before how does the naturalist explain that?
2black4bet 10 months ago
were do you think Dr Erhman obtained his knowledge you think it fell out of the sky? or maybe he was born with the knowledge of the contradictions of the bible? Is it genetic/ is there a smart gene? lol please you atheist kill me with your predisposed conditions for life based on nothing but a made up theory which you call science why dont u google science tell me if what you believe, Darwinism, matches those qualifications. If your so much smarter than God make another earth and live there
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
Anyone can see the blatant contradictions in the gospels by doing a horizontal reading. As for evolution...Science has moved on since Darwin's day friend. Evolution has been independently confirmed in at least a dozen different fields of study. Everything points to the same conclusion, and there is a good reason why evolution is the unifying theme in biology. Look up "Modern evolutionary synthesis" and learn a thing or two before embarrassing yourself further on this issue.
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
@bdwilson1000: 2black's own words are easy to identify. If the sentence has anything approaching good grammar and spelling, then 2black probably copied it. When the text is rambling nonsense, it is probably 2blacks. Nothing unusual here, Christian who frequent these social media to "defend" Christianity routinely plagiarize. And, for that matter, they routinely commit libel.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
lets look past the smoke screens fellas and get back to debate Its your turn to defend what you believe and you are allowed to use other sources you have no choice no idea is original there is nothing new under the sun! do I have to cite that truth too ok (King Solomon)lol science-a branch of knowledge or study dealing with the facts or truths,not theories,systematically, not randomly, arranged and showing the operation of general,not incidental or secondary.EXPLAIN how Darwinism isscience
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
There is no such thing as Darwinism. I told you to look up the modern evolutionary synthesis. We know that you are familiar with Google, so try using it to learn something outside Christian mythology. Learn about atavisms, vestigial organs, endogenous retroviruses, human chromosome #2, and various other pieces of evidence that prove beyond doubt that humans are the products of evolution and related to every other animal on planet earth, some more closely than others.
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
@bdwilson1000 there is no real evidence for your mythology science cannot prove beyond a doubt that humans evolved from turnips just because you find an extra toe on a horse does not prove macro evolution occurred there are extra toes on humans. your confusing an observation like vestigial organs with a non repeatable origin science like creationism and macroevolution. in other words just because you observe something in nature does not mean you solved the question of the origin of nature
2black4bet 10 months ago
@bdwilson1000 all these fancy terms and scientific studies do not explain the origin of species where did matter come from? Its sort of like you asking me who invented basketball and I start telling you about Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen! lol in other words im using the icon (Micheal Jordan) as the argument When I combine H + O2 we get water every time.That is science not some theory at best some made up fantasy about rats becoming dolphins and apes becoming astronauts you need more proof
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
I gave you suggestions for further research on another thread such as Talkorigins and the Berkley evolution page. Please take a break for a few weeks and learn what the science says. You are confusing multiple disciplines with each other as well as misrepresenting what the science says in each area. For biological facts, I recommend "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne and perhaps "The Grand Design" by Hawking in the area of physics. Come back after you learn a thing or two.
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
@2black4bet ignorantly said, "When I combine H + O2 we get water every time." Answer: Actually, no, you don't. First of all, you cannot combine Hydrogen and Oxygen in those ratios, and even if you could the result wouldn't be water. It is 1/2 H2 + O2 to get water, and then only when there is a spark or sufficient heat. Plus, you don't always get water: sometimes you get H2O2, which is hydrogen peroxide. You really should learn something about science before posting in your ignorance.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith
You're wasting your time. Before I will even talk about science with someone I first have to see some evidence that they understand what science is. When someone suggests that science can "prove beyond a doubt" then I know I'm dealing with someone ignorant of what science is. He also seems to think that scientific conclusions have to be observable or they don't count. That's funny because that's the whole point of science, to explain things that can't be directly observed.
h8uall66 10 months ago
@h8uall66 Thanks. I am, obviously, quite aware that @2black4bet is utterly ignorant of science -- or, for that matter, even basic critical thinking skills. I just want to make that point clear to people -- this is what devout Christianity does to people, it causes them to reject rationality, to reject multiple branches of scientific study, all to maintain belief in ancient myths. Though I have to admit I was totally astonished when 2black claimed to be exempt from laws b/c they were "pagan".
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith my point was not to be molecularly correct if there is such a term lol why dont you address the issues instead of bring up non essentials like whether or not I plagiarized or not Ridiculous you have no solid argument for any of your beliefs so this has become your argument sort of like evolutionist who have no solid proof of the origin of species or macroevolution so they make up arguments We are one body in Christ we dont care about pagan copyright laws man were Christians lol
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "my point was not to be molecularly correct"
Keith -- I have no doubt that you have no interest in whether you post CORRECT claims. You posted a FALSE claim about chemistry, I corrected you. How is that off-topic? How is making ACCURATE statements "ridiculous"?
@2black said, "we dont care about pagan copyright laws man were Christians lol"
Keith -- So, now you're exempt from the laws because the laws are "pagan"? Jury deliberations ought to be fun on that defense.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith corrects his typo: I meant to type H2 + ½ O2. Sorry about that.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet
And even if evolution were disproven tomorrow, it would not justify the "magic man did it" hypothesis by default. Let's assume that all of our knowledge of biology vanished and we had no explanation for the diversity of life. You still have ALL your work ahead of you to make the case for magic man. You need to show that an immaterial being is something other than a contradiction in terms, then you need to explain how such a being can influence the physical realm. Readyyy? Go.
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
Ehe resurrection is not something we believe through blind faith, but rather something we accept through faith in evidence. Christ suffered fatal torment, the tomb was empty, He appeared and gave many convincing proofs that He was alive and a band of scared, scattered disciples were transformed into lions of the faith who turned an empire upside down.
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "Christ suffered...turned an empire upside down"
Plagiarized verbatim from Hank Hanegraaff, hankhanegraaff.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html.
Plagiarism is illegal and frequently committed by you.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
Matthew Mark Luke dont give any accounts for the deity of Christ? that was an idea invented later by John really? what bible is this guy reading ? the Jehovah witness cult bible?lol read Christs words to the Sanhedrin in Matthew 24:30 and tell me He wasn't saying metaphorically He was God lol doesn't get any bolder than that! a biblical illiterate person or someone with a clear intent to discredit truth like Dr Erhman might not get it but the Jews did this is why they sought to kill him
2black4bet 10 months ago
WHAT DAY DID HE DIE? WHAT TIME OF DAY? b4 i totally dismantle this so called contriadiction let me first say that I read the Drs book on contradictions in the bible and it is clear he is bent on making Christ out to be a false prophet and why do I care? u ask because "truth matters" "what is truth" u and Piliate asks?learn how to read// In Jewish idiom any part of a day counted as a day–night unit. Therefore, there is no need to literalistically demand that seventy two hours be accounted for.
2black4bet 10 months ago
we must be carefull not to confuse the bible with contemporary writings Scribes wrote what was dictated to them so the author is irrelevant marks gospel for instance is based on the testimony of Peter written down by mark Mark was not an eyewittness Its assinine to think that someone is walking behind Christ with a pen and paper taking notes lol peter carried a sword my friend not a PEN Matthew was originally in Aramaic or Hebrew and attributes the gospel to Matthew the apostle.
2black4bet 10 months ago
who is this guy?historians and credible scholors look for this reliable core of an event to validate historical accounts liberal and conservative scholars agree that the body of Jesus was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and as a member of the Jewish court that convicted Jesus Christ to death, he's unlikely to be Christian fiction. if the post said there were 2 million at the yankees parade and the daily news said 3m do they contradict or complement? think people
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet Having read your comments on the gospels, I am not all that concerned with whether they contradict each other (which they most certainly do). What I *am* concerned about is the complete lack of ANY reference to him made during his alleged lifetime. Now, if he was just an ordinary person, it would be completely understandable if there were no surviving references to him. But, surely there would be some independent documentation of some sort if he really were doing (continued...)
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet [continuation]
.... independent documentation of some sort if he really were doing the amazing things depicted in the Bible. He's raising the dead, has thousands following him around, performing healing miracles, walking on water, getting in trouble with the Romans and the Sanhedrin, goes before Pilate and Herod Antipas, got crucified, rose from the dead, etc. That is far from being an ordinary Joe, don't you agree? And yet, there's not a single word about him written at the time
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith there was not 50 differenct news channels back then CNN CNBC NBC ABC the bible is all you will get but as formentioned the bible is just not one source its many sources in one cannon they didnt have the internet where you can send information across the world as soon as it happens this is ancient times people wake up Americans i tell you we live in a microwave society It took Hanibal 5 months to travel just from Spain to Italy! REGARDING YOU TOTAL DISCREDIT OF NON CHRISTIAN
2black4bet 10 months ago
sources such as Cornelius Tacitus, Josephus AGAIN you and the idiot in this clip are clearly bias on this subject .For one if I told you that a well known and respected historian such as Alison Weir wrote an bio MLK jr and you told me she was not credible and MLK jr didnt exist because she was not a direct eye wittness I would say you had a bias towards the subject and maybe your a racist If she wrote a bio on hitler and the holocaust and u said No didnt happen she wanst there....u get my point
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
".For one if I told you that a well known and respected historian such as Alison Weir wrote an bio MLK jr and you told me she was not credible and MLK jr didnt exist because she was not a direct eye wittness"
There are many thousands of independent references to MLK Jr. to corroborate such a book. I would still want independently corroborated sources on EVERY CLAIM the book made about MLK Jr.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith So, we have corroboration on MLK Jr. But what of claims made about G W Bush in books by either his most devoted supporters or his worst enemies, claims that are not corroborated anywhere else by anyone else? We know he exists, we know these people personally know him. So, shall we accept everything they say about him? No, of course not. We ask for corroboration, both from his supporters and his enemies.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
Luke, who was not an apostle, had no biases,but because he is in the BIBLE he is for some odd reason is considred part of the same "CULT" of christianity He would be a present day Sherlock Holmes He gathered eyewitness testimony and “carefully investigated everything” (Luke 1:1-3). Peter reminded his readers that the disciples “were eyewitnesses of His majesty” and “did not follow cleverly invented stories” (2 Pet. 1:16). Truly, the Bible affirms the eyewitness credibility of its writers.
2black4bet 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith this is the reason I beleive God incarnate did not write the "book of Jesus" we dont just have Jesus and his followers writing about miriacles and his diety. we have luke a historian and the forementioned jewish historians which corroborate Luke. On one hand you say the bible was not written by the disciples but on the other hand you say the bible cant be trusted cause the apostles were the only ones who wrote about Christ," they were in the same cult" well which one is it?
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet What can be trusted is evidence from multiple sources (but not all on the same side, we need both sides of the story), as well as corroborating archeological or other physical evidence. Even then, it can only be trusted to the extent of the quality of the data. I SAY THIS ABOUT ALL CLAIMS, whether someone claiming something about Obama, G W Bush, Jim Jones, or Jesus of Nazareth. Testimonies need to be first hand, eyewitness accounts, written at or near the time the events occurred
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith were talking in circles here AGAIN you are under the false notion that everyone in the bible was on the "same side" that is a falsehood and a dogmatic assumption that doesn't line up with the facts Dr Luke was not an apostle or a disciple but a private investigator who just researched the facts in addition there are several non christian historians verified Christ as an actual person are non bias credible sources as well no need to elaborate further Ive posted enough evidence
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet As you are willing to denounce entire fields of scientific study, it is no surprise that you are unwilling to accept routine study of history. Instead you keep informing me of what it is that I supposedly believe, though you don't know me. I asked for the same level of evidence that you yourself would require from similar claims from other groups, and for this you denounce me.
So, yes, there is no reason for you to continue posting until you're willing to have civil discussions.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith I just systematically proved the historical evidence in the bible is reliable go back and read the prior post U would accept a 21st century's account of MLK if there were 'independently corroborated sources on EVERY CLAIM the book made about MLK Jr.than you must accept Dr Lukes version of Christ which was corroborated by the synoptic gospels and later non christian historians if your honest u would admit whether or not Dr King smoked cigarettes is not an essential CLAIM lol
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet On the contrary, you provided no INDEPENDENT corroboration at all. As I've stated before, trivial contradictions aren't very interesting to me. I am very concerned about evidence for major claims. The material that is nearly the same in all the gospels is adequate SAME SOURCE corroboration for establishing what some of the beliefs some early Christian groups taught. It says nothing about whether those beliefs were factual.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet [continuation]
It is not possible for persons within a group to provide independent corroboration. Go back to my cult testimony example. Or consider members of a gang all telling the police they didn't break into that house. It doesn't matter how many of them tell their tale, they are coming from the same source, that being the community whose claims are in question. Only outside EYEWITNESSES can provide INDEPENDENT corroboration.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet [part 3] Ancient historians, no matter how well-respected, didn't have scientific means to examine testimonies. All they could do is pass along what tales were being told. Therefore, they cannot provide CORROBORATION. And, the ancient non-Christian historians you mention do not even discuss the details in the gospels. The historians just mention the existence of first century Christians in passing, and nobody is denying that those Christians existed.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith "didn't have scientific means to examine testimonies" .lets move on lol clearly your bias on the subject when u make comments like this what scientific means does one need to conduct an investigation of an event a lie detector test ???lol aww man lets move on here now its your turn you prove what you believe to be true since you like using the word scientific and science all the time i took the liberty to look it up for you as i previously stated science supports ID
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "i previously stated science supports ID"
I will not debate with you the claims of creationists, even when they make-believe they are real science by calling their religious doctrines "ID". The nonsensical claims of creationists have been thoroughly and repeatedly refuted. They have nothing to do with science. Again, I will no more debate this topic with you than I would debate the relatively more likely issue of whether there is an Easter Bunny
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith I didnt say ID doctrines were real science I said science supports a ID biblical worldview you claim you dont want to make this an ID vs Darwinism/philosophical naturalism debate but you say comments like prove the deity of Christ well since Christ is the one who spoke and the universe came into existence ultimately this is a ID vs Darwin debate there is no denying that When you deny the deity of Christ and the validity of those who wrote about him you are denying there is a GOD
2black4bet 10 months ago
again Dr Luke is an INDEPENDENT corroboration he was not an apostle or a disciple but you ignore that historical fact.Luke is considered one of the 4 gospels but he is not the SAME SOURCE as M Mk and John since it is well known that he was not an eyewitness In fact James the half brother of Christ did not believe until after he saw Him resurrected from the dead Familiarity breeds contempt!! The evidence collected by Luke and James most likely is what convinced him just like it convinced myself
2black4bet 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith 2ndly I think ive proven the non-christian Jewish sources such as Josephus I cited which u ignore are all INDEPENDENT corroborations of Dr Lukes version of Christ the fact that they wrote after the advent is irrelevant since we accept a current day historians versions of "the life of MLK jr" SO now MR SCIENTIST its your turn to prove what you claim I love science I dont denounce science Science proves ID not anything else you may believe what is this "scientific study"u speak of?
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet Please study up on Josephus, with particular emphasis on what scholars say about his alleged remarks about Jesus, to learn why I wouldn't take much account of that. Likewise, kindly study what scholars have to say on the nature and origin of the gospels, to learn why I respond as I do.
I don't know who "we" is in "we accept a current day historians" (sic), might include, but it wouldn't be myself. I examine evidence the historian might present, I don't just take their word for it.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith clearly have a bias against the evidence in the bible for one you continue to claim it is "the same source" simply because it is in the same book isn't it a fact that the bible was not canonized until 3rd century?so in fact the bible is not one independent source on the same side but a collection of independent sources over a span of 1500 years written by 40 different authors both new and old testaments secondly Josephus wasnt the only historian i cited as a corroboration of luke
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "Science proves ID"
ID, like all forms of creationism, is less worthy of debate than whether there is an Easter Bunny. I will not make believe that there is something worthy of adult conversation, when there is none. You keep bringing it up, but to embrace creationism is to embrace something sillier than believing in the Easter Bunny. I refuse to debate anyone on that topic as there isn't anything to debate.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet Again, on the issue of early non-Christian sources: those sources confirm the existence of Christianity in the second half of the first century. However, that Christianity existed at that time is not in question or disputed by anyone that I know of, since there are multiple sources demonstrating that. But, there is no CONTEMPORARY non-Christian sources that discuss whether the Christian claims about Jesus were factual.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith now your changing the requirements on me of course you make the requirements stringent for Luke because your a skeptic. so now not only do you want non christian sources but now they have to be "contemporary" after 18th or 19th C?21st C a few weeks ago you told me Luke and the other non christian sources were not credible because they came after the death of Christ and now you telling me you need a source from 2000 yrs after the death of Christ well which one is it?
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet said: "a few weeks ago you told me Luke and the other non christian sources were not credible because they came after the death"
I really don't know why I bother to continue this conversation (sigh). Contemporary, in this context, means at or near the time of the events in question. I checked several online dictionaries, which list this as primary meaning of "contemporary". Thus, as I said, they weren't written at or nearly at the time of the events, while memories were fresh.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith BUT MY POINT WAS YOU GLADLY ACCEPT OTHER ACCOUNTS OF HISTORY WITHOUT THAT SAME REQUIREMENT LIKE HOMER OR PLATO you said you would compare a bio of MLKjr with others to validate its authenticity right well thats what the bible is Its a comparison of thousands of manuscripts from hundreds of sources 2.ancient text cannot be analyzed the same way we analyze literature today why one reason is because they didnt record events the same way we do 2day authorship were not relevant
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
other accounts of history don't go contrary to ALL of our background knowledge in the realm of biology (resurrection), medicine (spontaneous healing), gravity, (floating bodily up to the sky) etc. At most historically you can establish there was an apocalyptic Jewish teacher around that time. Historians must establish what most probably happened in the past, and magic/miracles are by definition the least likely things imaginable. Otherwise they would not be called miracles.
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
@bdwilson1000 were open minded to the realm of the supernatural you who have closed your mind to this realm and are clearly in denial, just by the literal meaning of the word you cannot explain the conscience with science.so to defend your faith you make dogmatic assertions like "God must not exist" or "well science hasnt figured it out yet" lol well you never will Let me also tell you for certain what you will never "figure out " or duplicate scientifically 1 GOD 2 HUMAN LIFE 3 G-FORCES
2black4bet 10 months ago
medicines dont cure your sickness they only alleviate certain symptoms until body thats right your body heals itself! MIRACLE of God not science! I know what your thinking natural selection has killed everyone who could not heal their cuts, they all bleed to death right lol we believe in miracles like the human eye but not in false prophets like Todd Benley or Benny Hinn but in the creator God who doesn't need to perform any more miracles for he raised himself from the dead "it is finished"
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet You keep insisting that you know what I think or how I would react, you've done that several times. You have been wrong on all occasions. Kindly stop.
I do not accept Homer or Plato as history and for the same reasons I don't accept the Bible as history.
If we are not able to establish whether an account is historical, then we need to just say so, instead of saying it is historically accurate without adequate reason.
Quantity of manuscripts doesn't affect historical accuracy.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith dont believe there was a city of Atlantis either but do u believe a man named Plato actually existed? that he was a historical figure?But Christ as you claim was a Myth?The Bible, compared with other ancient writings, has more manuscript evidence than any 10 pieces of classical literature combined the point being that we accept these writers as actually existing but we for some reason degrade Christ to a myth. we could take the next step and consider its theological reliability
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet Someone claiming to be Plato wrote the Platonic literature, so yes, that author exited. Whether his name was actually Plato, or whether that was a pen name, I have no idea. Socrates might have been fictitious, however. I don't know. I think it is likely that there was some preacher or preachers upon whom the Christ story may have been based. But, the Jesus of Christian literature appears to be a myth.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith whether or not you believe Christ was resurrected is up to the individual but to say Christ wasn't a historical figure is an outright lie. the apostles claimed that Christ appeared to hundreds of people who were still alive and available for cross-examination (1 Cor. 15:6)no one has ever come up with a credible means to explain away the post-resurrection appearances of Christ. the references to Christ’s appearances are early and free from legendary corruption.
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
There is a clear legendary development from Paul's "vision" experience..to Mark's physical resurrection (but no appearances)..to the later more embellished resurrection appearances...ultimately ending up with John's "doubting Thomas" story which appears nowhere else. I don't know what you are talking about if you don't see legendary development here. The evidence is scant at best..but even if we had 10X as many written reports, it would not establish the magical conclusion.
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
if your professor is Bart Ehrman, watch out for the obfuscation! a suggestion that the Gospels contain contradictory versions of Christ’s life is never substantiated. In reality, far from being contradictory, the Gospels are clearly complementary. If they all had the same events skeptic would scream collusion. I did not see Mickey but i saw Goofy you went and did not see Goofy but did see Mickey Does this mean that we both are liars and did not go to Disney at all ?or Mickey/Goofy don't exist?
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet Christian literature, which contains much that was not canonized into the NT, contain many contradictory claims about Jesus. This is exactly what one would expect of a mythological character. While there very well may have been some historical preacher(s) upon whom the myths were based, You mentioned "early" references to so-called post-resurrection appearances. I am not aware of any such documentation. Kindly specify what those might be.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith Gnostic writings were left out of the cannon because of the lack of authenticity Exactly why did apostolic Christianity survive and thrive? Robert Speer proclaims that "Christianity lived because it was true to the truth" The New Testament consistently claims that Jesus Christ is God (e.g., His deity is unequivocally affirmed by the Gospel writers (Matt. 1:23; John 20:28), the Apostle Paul (Rom. 9:5; Col. 2:9), and Jesus Himself (John 8:24 and 58)
2black4bet 10 months ago
friends and foes, reported that Jesus had risen from the dead and had appeared to them. this is reported by Paul (1 Cor. 15:11), by a disciple of Peter named Clement (1 Clement 42:3), and by various early oral traditions in the NT(1 Cor. 15:3–7).4 a skeptic (James) and an enemy of Jesus (Paul) became followers of Jesus after experiencing post- resurrection appearances,willing to suffer continuously and die for their testimony that they had seen the risen Jesus. Liars make poor martyrs
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
You are basing all this on one report from one guy (Paul) who likely had epilepsy judging from the description of his conversion experience. One guy who witnessed none of this stuff is giving you an **anecdote** that he heard about "hundreds" of people who saw Jesus. Be honest. If I produced a book today claiming that the author knew about 1,000 people who saw Ronald Reagan raised from the dead, would that "evidence" count for a damn thing in your eyes? Would you believe it?
bdwilson1000 10 months ago
why didn't anyone refute Paul then why wait till 2011 on youtube lol If the resurrection appearances were merely hallucinations, Jesus’ body would have remained in the tomb. show me Regans empty tomb If the tomb had been occupied, authorities would only have had to go to the tomb and view the corpse and the claim of a resurrection would have been demolished immediately, but there is no indication that this occurred.
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "why didn't anyone refute Paul then" They did - look up Celsus and Lucian for starters, and they were only part of a tradition of Roman philosophers who opposed Christianity. As for the empty tomb, the four Gospel accounts are inconsistent with one another. Graves are robbed, people in comas wake up, people hallucinate, women tell stories. The simplest explanation cannot be that an extradimensional being resurrected the body and then teleported it to Cloudcuckooland. Read David Hume.
bcgonynor 10 months ago
Paul wrote the first epistle to the Corinth (53-57AD) Lucian was born until 125AD Celsus? 2nd C come on man how could they have possibly refuted Paul or interviewed any possible eyewitness of Christs resurrection? why didnt anyone after 60AD check Pauls account there were 500 witnesses? Rome opposed Christianity all right they even claimed that someone stole the body embarrassed and ashamed at the reality of the fact of Christs deity they probably sought to destroy any evidence he even existed
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet The ancient Egyptians built the pyramids as resurrection machines. Those tombs are empty. Does that mean those pharaohs were resurrected. The Muslims say that Mohamed ascended into heaven and his body has never been found. So, does that mean he really ascended bodily into heaven? By you logic it does.
BTW, the location of Jesus tomb, if there ever were one, is not known. So, we can hardly know that it is empty or even whether it ever existed.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith Muhammad's body is still buried in Medina. In fact according to the Koran when jesus returns he will die again lol and his body will be buried next to Muhammad in Medina where he awaits judgment from Allah because he died not knowing if he would go to heaven (please note Allah is not the same God of the Bible but a false god lower case g) Jesus according to the Koran is in heaven with Allah(Koran 3,55;4,158,159) lol confusing isnt it I know please dont compare myths to the bible
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet I am happy to admit it when I make a mistake. Although Muhammad is said to have ascended bodily into heaven, he supposed came back and got buried. So, I was partly wrong on that bit.
However, there are leaders of other religions whose tombs are empty.
What I said about the pharaohs is definitely true: all of the bodies of those pharaohs who were buried in the pyramids are missing. Those tombs are empty. So, doesn't that mean they got resurrected?
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith Egyptian pharaohs are dead mummified but clearly dead. there bodies were preserved by people not God. check out Ramses II 3000 yr old dead body in an Egyptian Mummy museum in Cairo, By the way Krishna is dead too. where are you getting your facts from sci fi films like Indiana Jones and the temple of doom? Buddha, Joseph Smith, James Warren "Jim" Jones, Muhammad, Oprah and her spiritual guru will die but Jesus is alive forevermore!
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet I was not referring to Egyptian mummies nor to the New Kingdom practice of burying pharaohs in King's Valley. I was VERY CLEAR. I stated the Pharaoh's that were buried in the PYRAMIDS. Those tombs are empty and have been for thousands of years. Since an empty tomb, according to you, means a certainty of resurrection, if believers claim there was a resurrection, then you must conclude those Pharaohs buried IN PYRAMIDS (not elsewhere) were resurrected.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith are there any accounts for the missing bodies other than there not there today or a mythological belief in a resurrection perhaps a tomb raider like Indiana Jones or my favorite Angelina Jolie took them lol the bible has Manuscript, Archeological ,and Predictive Prophetic evidence we have more evidence than an empty tomb which is essential to the Christian world view but its not the only natural evidence we have to validate the faith
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet The pyramids were built as resurrection machines, complete with corridors the dead were supposed to traverse to ascend to the gods. The fact that they are not in those tombs is proof positive, according to your standards, that the devices actually worked (on at least some of the pharaohs). As with you and your Jesus character, there are always naysayers who speak of tomb robbers or something, but you know that resurrection is the real truth.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith No religion or culture on earth has more specificity in its earliest historical records than the Torah The myth of the Isis cult concerned Osiris, her husband during the earlier Egyptian and nonmystery stage of the religion.Comparisons between the resurrection of Jesus and the resuscitation of Osiris are greatly exaggerated.Not every version of the myth has Osiris returning to life; in some he simply becomes king of the underworld. its an interesting story makes 4 good movies too
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
you don't know much about religion or history do you? yet you pretend to...
google "Zoroastrianism", it predates christianity by 3000 years...and guess what? the exodus NEVER happened! i wonder what else isn't true in the bible?
flashoftruth 10 months ago
No exodus?a nomadic,tribal migration would hardly leave behind permanent stone foundations of imposing buildings en route. what does that mean the Magi predated Christianity? Moses predated Jesus whats your point lets look at what the Magi believed shall we?The Zoroastrians main vehicle for discovering God's nature and uncovering His plans was the stars. We have the stars(creation)and Christ So they are going to heaven Gandhi who had the revelation of Christ and rejected him, HELL very simple
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
check your inbox sparkles! and if ghandi is in 'hell', it just confirms that your chosen 'god' is a fucking PSYCHOPATH that i want nothing to do with.
and so...the only 'proof' you have for your 'god' is "stars" and "christ"? god thing you weren't born in the middle east or you'd be telling me bullshit about allah.
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@2black4bet No exodus.... & The Zoraastrians...
Plagerized verbatim from Paul L. Maier at thetruth737.tripod.com/archaelogybible.html
and from
Louis Markos at equip.org/articles/why-christians-should-read-the-pagan-classics
Plagiarism is against the law. That means you routinely break the law by presenting other people's words as your own.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
equip.org Hank (the bible answer man) I also like my spiritual father Bishop Eric Lambert Jr's interpretation of scripture Its pure, that is based purely on the infallible word of God unlike false teachers like TD Jakes, Benny Hinn google him for a good laugh. I listen to Hank and others like him who are preaching the truth every night Christians dont care about quoting each other because we understand all truth ultimately comes from God THIS2ndly IS YOUTUBE MAN IM NOT SELLING ANY POST!
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "IM NOT SELLING ANY POST!"
Please discuss this with your lawyer. Copyright violation doesn't require that you make or try to make any money.
The act of presenting someone else's words as your own is AGAINST THE LAW, whether you think you are above the law or not.
You acts could result in being sued for thousands of dollars and up to ONE YEAR IN JAIL.
You said, "Christians dont care about quoting each other". Keith answers: "That won't make a good defense in court."
ScientistKeith 10 months ago 2
when did you become a copyright lawyer? I always use other peoples words as my own as you do. you weren't born with the knowledge of anything including natural selection buddy We believe Christ was the only man on earth who presented His own words because He is God-the sole creator of matter itself Im sure Hank and all the apologists Ive studied under would be honored I used some of their arguments( which they've obtained from someone over them and so on all the way back to Moses)
2black4bet 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith u see how the athiest ducks and dodges the truth by accusing someone of plagiarism on a youtube debate what is this grad school? do you want me to send a post of all my sources? Citation laws on utube you kidding me? you dont have any sound argument so you attack my grammar and my use of other sources 75% you or someone said right lol really did you take the time to calculate that percentage? now I see why your an atheist you spend time calculating nothing for nothing
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "by accusing someone of plagiarism"
On the contrary, I have PROVEN that you committed plagiarism.
@2black4bet said "Citation laws on utube you kidding me?" Keith Answers: Youtube is not exempt from the legal statutes governing plagiarism. You have repeatedly committed a civil offense and could be sued for thousands of dollars. You have also violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
YOUR DISDAIN FOR THESE LAWS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE YOUR BEING EXEMPT FROM THE LAWS.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
again your thinking like a sinner Christians don't sue each other (1Cor 6:1-8)were not concerned (the genuine believers that is) with using truth the word of God which explains everything you need to know about your existence as a pawn for profit. contact my pastor or Hank Hanegraaff the bible answer man or any parishioner, mentor, teacher ive studied under, they would be honored i used any of there arguments in debate just like Darwin would be pleased with a Richard Dawkins and yourself lol
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet And so, your response is that it's okay to break the law if you feel sure you won't get sued over it? If you can get away with it, then it's just fine to break the law? That is what you're saying! What a Christian concept! After all, in Christianity, you can be absolved and forgiven of any offense, even the most heinous of crimes.. all you have to do is repent, confess, and/or accept Jesus as your savior.
I, however, believe in honesty and taking responsibility for your actions.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith everyone will take responsibility for their actions on judgment day including Hitler who otherwise, if there were no Hell, would get away with murdering millions Christians are different from sinners in that we accept the truth that no information we obtain comes from our own validity info is posted for everyone to use to defend the cross Check out the websites ive used there are no DISCLAIMERS you are ignorant of the law buddy so stick to trying to discredit the bible
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "there are no DISCLAIMERS" Copyright disclaimers are not legally required, they're only a courtesy lawyers like to present. You broke the law, that is all there is to it. It is you who is ignorant, it is you who try to act like you are a representative of what is good and right while simultaneously LYING (or at least being deceptive) by presenting other people's words as your own (which is also illegal).
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith secondly in the concept of being absolved from any sin by confession is not a Christian concept I hate to bash our brothers and sisters in the Lord in the Catholic church but thats what they believe. You can only be forgiven by accepting Christ as Lord not a confession to the pope or priest in a boz behind some veil My favorite scene was in the Godfather when Micheal Corleone went to church and asked for forgiveness really? lol but back to the topic where did matter come from?
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet Who said anything about popes and priests? I was referring to confessing to god in reverent prayer, but I'd agree with you it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
What sort of matter are you asking about? Different answers for different kinds.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet "you dont have any sound argument"
I have honestly answered the few coherent questions you have posed to me. You have not answered all of mine, but still accuse me of "ducks and dodges". Ask me ANY on-topic, cogent question and I will answer it directly. (NOTE: Questions about what I'd do if you put a gun to my head OR about long-since disproved creationist claims are NOT cogent questions and won't be answered.)
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith "who is your Rabbi?" they asked Jesus they wondered where he obtained all this knowledge and truth You know Christ was the only man to not have an earthly teacher He says I only do what I see the Father doing in heaven"(John 5:19) So where did you guys learn all this stuff about Darwin
? is this your own thoughts or did he email you a copy of the origin of the evolution of species?
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet What is your obsession with Charles Darwin? You have probably used his name more times in this thread than have ever made mention of him in the last 5 or 6 years. I just don't understand your Darwin fixation. It's been 150 years since he published his findings. He was right about some things, he was wrong about some things. Science has moved on quite considerably since his days. You might want to read up a bit before denouncing things you don't understand.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith who are the pharaohs anyway?ONLY Jesus claimed to be God incarnate and that wasn't an empty boast because through the historic fact of resurrection in which we will celebrate today Christ vindicated his claim of deity Christianity is unique in that it is a coherent belief structure. It has more extra-biblical evidence than any other religion.Some Christian doctrine may transcend comprehension however unlike the claims of other religions they are never contradictory or irrational
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
so basically you didn't watch the video? "historic fact"??? "never contradictory or irrational"???
wow...
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth "You didnt watch the video?"lolol aww man where do they find these guys ive also read many of Dr Ehrmans books which one of his so called contradictions( some of which Ive already with no problem debunked days ago go back and read the prior post) do you have a question about? Id like to help you dig through the pile of sensationalist dung the Dr has so successfully dumped on your front lawn I said this was my last post but God said otherwise GO ahead shoot!
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
go ahead...impress me...point out just ONE statement of contradiction that Dr. Ehrman points out in this video that you can "debunk"?
and i'll give you (at least) one you can't either...
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@2black4bet
for example...let’s review 'free will' versus a 'god-given plan'. you simply cannot have both. if you have free will, then it is not possible for 'Yhwh' to have a plan made out for you. if 'Yhwh' does have a plan for you, then you cannot truly have free will for your destiny is already mapped.
this is an absurdly conflicting paradox, but i'm sure you can "debunk" this right?
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth good question! ill answer only if you answer a question of mines what was your relationship like with your father? I must admit this is an in house debate among Christians Calvinist believe you are pre destined to follow a plan of God if you are elect you will make it to heaven if He God being didnt choose you, your destined for hell. rather harsh wouldn't you think? I dont hold the Calvinistic view but rather I believe in the sovereignty of God in that He is not the author of evil
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
what the hell does my relationship with my father have to do with anything? and you are so used to having unreasonable, illogical, asinine conditions put on you by your 'god' that you think it acceptable to attempt to apply conditions on me? sorry, life doesn't work like that. here i am god and you are just another theist with bullshit excuses for a bullshit story.
fine, don't answer the question i could give a shit. tells me all i need to know..thx!
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth now now now your not being fair mr flash i answered all your silly questions which could have been googled by a 3rd grader why wont you answer mines which only you and your earthly father would know I cant google that lol It is said the relationship you have or had with your father could determine the way you think towards your heavenly Father. and yes it is acceptable to attempt to apply Gods conditions on you and everyone as commissioned to to so by God our Father in heaven AMEN
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
uh, no...no you haven't. you said you could "debunk" Dr. Ehrman's statements, then i gave you a "good question" of contradiction that you haven't "debunked" yet either...and why do you insist on writing "mines"? you look like a 3rd grader that refuses to google the proper spelling. no ebonics allowed here.
& my relationship with my father is NOTHING like the 'relationship' i have with imaginary, psychopathic, mass murdering dictators in the sky. what about MY god's conditions?
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth who is this mass murderer you speak of in the sky stop reading ancient Greek mythology God is not in the sky on a cloud throwing lightning bolts lol stick to the bible which is rooted and grounded in history and evidence I apologize what so called contradiction did you want me to debunk there are many in the Dr's sensationalistic writings I thought I answered your question about free will do you have another? I do this for a living you know this is fun for me shoot
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
"what so called contradiction did you want me to debunk"
pick one...i only asked for one, & you most certainly did not answer my question about 'free will', because i went back to see if i missed something...& if you think what you wrote was an 'answer' you are loopier than i thought. as far as your mass murdering 'god', i must have read a different bible than you...the one i read has numerous accounts of atrocities committed & commanded by the 'god' "Yhwh", who is your 'god'?
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth context context context ! Gods punishment for the atrocities (rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, of the Canaanites) was death, Capitol punishment not genocide. I said there are 2 beliefs in the christian world view Calvinism vs Non-Calvinist Google it. I hold the non Calvinistic view which holds to the sovereignty of God and that He knows who will willingly accept him and therefore that makes us "pre-destined" or elected
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
death death death ! your 'god' and religion are obsessed with it. all of those 'crimes' are punishable by "death"??? so you are admitting your 'god' has the morality of hitler and the logic of a psychopath?
it's FUCKING GENOCIDE & INFANTICIDE YOU DUMBASS no matter how much you want to attempt to put a cherry on a pile of shit. and you do this for a living? where? fantasyland? who pays you for making excuses for crimes against humanity as depicted in your book of bullshit?
flashoftruth 10 months ago
Lev18 and elsewhere the Bible reveals that God punished the Canaanites for specific grievous evils.Also this wasn’t the entire destruction of a race as God didn’t order that every Canaanite be killed but only those who lived within specific geographical boundaries (Josh. 1:4).This wasn’t merely punishment, however. God sought to reveal His standards of righteousness to a thoroughly corrupted humankind, and He chose Israel why I don't know What I do know is were lucky we didnt live back then
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
"standards of righteousness"????
BWAHAHAHAhahahahahaha!
flashoftruth 10 months ago
(cont) instead actualized evil by giving us free will he doesnt make evil people He gave Hitler and you and me free will which actualizes us to do evil. Secondly since God is sovergn knows all sees all sits outside of time in eternity past meaning He is present past and future He already knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him so we are not so predestined by Gods forcing us to do His will but because He is sovereign He already knew before the world was created who would follow
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
and i'm sure you've seen this headline too...from oct. 5, 2005, "THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true."
NO? really???
flashoftruth 10 months ago
I hold no ties with the ROMAN catholic church but instead to the historic Christian faith I could do a whole thesis on the problems with RCC but ill chose not to although they are very superstitious and very weird when it comes to some of there doctrine however they are part of the body of Christ because they do believe in Christ atonement So just like that crazy uncle we have to accept him as part of the family "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
"I hold no ties with the ROMAN catholic church..."
but that isn't the point is it sparkles? keep dancing around the issue, this is fun...
flashoftruth 10 months ago
check your history the RCC was an invention of Emperor/Conqueror/Tyrant Constantine 300 yrs after Christs resurrection Some say he did it to immobilize a fallen Roman Empire they believe in the infallacy of the bible they also assert that the unwritten traditions of the Roman church are just as authoritative. In fact, that’s the reason scores of practices and beliefs which have no basis in Scripture practices like prayers for the dead and beliefs such as the infallibility of the pope.
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet said, "Some Christian doctrine may transcend comprehension however unlike the claims of other religions they are never contradictory or irrational"
THAT IS HYSTERICALLY FUNNY! Wow! Who knew you were such a comedian?
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith Ive been working with children in school for 3 yrs now in this short time ive learned one thing about children in respect to adults that is we are nothing but children grown up at least chronologically You Keith remind me of the bully in school who finds faults in everyone else to make his self or his situation look better because secretly he is miserable and unsure of himself and in your case what you believe in where you ultimately come from God or Chance? You decide lol
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet I give up. It is impossible to have any conversation with you. You have insulted me in nearly every post you've made to me. You have no ability to have a cogent, civil debate.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet Now, obviously, Ramses II, Tutankhamen, and others must have done something wrong, since they didn't get bodily resurrected, since their remains are with us today. But so many other Pharaohs, especially those who were buried in the PYRAMID, have empty tombs, their remains nowhere to be found. Obviously, they must have been resurrected and taken their place with the other gods in heaven, since an empty tomb, according to you, is proof of resurrection.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith you continue to play Duck, Duck, the truth !! okay I wont ask you any more questions about your beliefs cause I realize you cant answer to or for a lie unless you lie lol I'm not surprised the bible predicts your answer that you would reject truth for a lie Jesus explains why and this is my last post so pay attention!! "This is the verdict": Jesus says "Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." (John 3:19) AMEN
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet "you continue to play Duck, Duck, the truth !! okay I wont ask you any more questions about your beliefs"
I directly answered your questions. I don't know what you think it is that I am not willing to answer. Perhaps you thought I was not being forthcoming about the question on the beginning of the universe; however, I gave you an honest answer. The truth is that I don't have a particular opinion about that topic nor am I seeking any, since it doesn't affect my life in any way.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet Paul and Clement were not eyewitnesses. And, liars do in fact make excellent martyrs. Public humiliation is a very difficult thing to endure, and a great many people would prefer death to that humiliation. Oral tradition isn't worth the paper it is written on, in terms of determining what is true. Leaders tell their followers whatever it takes to achieve the goals of the leaders, it happens in politics, it happens in religion.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
there is no indication of any prior desire for conversion by either of these men.Paul and James are poor candidates for this belief they couldn't endure public humiliation and preferred to die, when they made a conscience decision to follow Christ after the crucifixion and resurrection not before as in the case of Peter subjective theories fail just as thoroughly as did those of 100 yrs ago to undermine the proclamation on which Christian faith has stood firm for 2,000 years: Christ is risen.
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet The first century was a very turbulent time for Jews and the early Christians. There are any number of reasons why they would have been initially drawn to one of the many messianic groups, from personal survival to survival of their countrymen. Desperate times lead to desperate acts and desperate choices. Caligula, Nero and other Caesars of that era created very desperate times, indeed.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith well what do you believe ?would you die for your beliefs as Paul did and the apostles and boast about it in his letter to the churches? Keith would you die for your wife, kids, well how about a man who is supposed to be dead? Only if He is GOD would you die for a man you never met in person?what do you believe? what would you fight for? nothing? if i held a gun to your head and asked u to denounce atheism would you die and according to ur faith cease to exist in total darkness
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet What a strange question. Why in the world would my willingness to die or not to die for a particular reason have to do with whether that cause were factual in nature? Your question suggests that you have psychological problems and I suggest you have yourself evaluated if you spend your days thinking about murdering people to see what they are willing to die for or else contemplating what you might like to get murdered over.
I won't humor such psychotic questions.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith ive answered all of your questions why wont you answer any of mines hmmm am i frightening ya pay attention you will DIE one day what happens when you DIE? ANSWER ME How do you believe the universe began and how do you think the first human life came into existence?rather than question my sanity just answer the question and stop playing dodge ball
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet
What happens when we die? We're dead, of course. That seems rather obvious.
Universe began? I am not aware of the universe having a beginning. I have no particular belief on that topic.
First human life? We were crafted by natural selection, same as any other species.
Frightening me? No. But when you spoke of your putting a gun to my head that didn't exact bode well with me, it is not the sort of thing one speaks of duirng civil discourse.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith Natural selection crafted the first life from what? The 2nd law of thermodynamics, the expanding universe, and Einstein’s general theory of relativity are all accepted observations of modern science they show us that the universe is not eternal it had a beginning. If it had a beginning, then it had a beginner. And this beginner left clear signs of intelligence because this universe includes more than 100 environmental conditions that are precisely tweaked to support life
2black4bet 10 months ago
@2black4bet You did not ask me about "the first life" you asked me about "the first human life". Those are fairly unrelated topics.
Again, I will no more debate creationism with you than I would debate the relatively more likely issue of whether there is an Easter Bunny. Kindly stop attempting to get me to debate that topic. All creationist claims have been thoroughly, repeatedly, and exhaustively refuted. There is nothing within creationist claims that is worthy of debate.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@2black4bet
"If it had a beginning, then it had a beginner."
yet for whatever reason this doesn't hold true for your 'god'...why is that? and i think you meant this PLANET, not "this universe"...but that is still no proof that YOUR chosen 'god' exists, or that ANY 'god' exists.
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth It is interesting, isn't it, we must answer where life comes from, but not where gods come from. Interesting that.
But, by what stretch of evidence or logic must we conclude that, even if life on this planet did have an "intelligent designer" that must have been a god. Maybe it was a bioforming project by some alien race, who took a lifeless planet and tweaked it to create life of their choosing. I doubt it happened, but it seems more plausible that saying magic gods did it.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago
@ScientistKeith
i always thought it funny that we could be the product of some 6th grade alien's science project...i don't know how life got here, but i have no doubt it wasn't Yhwh...or Allah, or Ra, or any of the several 1000 'gods' created by man...
flashoftruth 10 months ago
@flashoftruth "i always thought it funny that we could be the product of some 6th grade alien's science project."
If so, I think the kid probably got a C- on the project. Any science project that could led to something like bed bugs AND Glenn Beck really isn't all that great of a concept, in my humble opinion.
ScientistKeith 10 months ago