Toyota joins lawsuit to keep air dirty -- Tape 1

[juki0h]

they keep saying, get our airs cleaned up, but fuck man, its not just toyota! its every fukn car on the road! if one of them drives a gas car, their a hyprocrite! their just doing this because they hate toyotas success, they hate that toyota is number 1 in the world, jealousy

[Xytos]

because they're fucking dumb dirty japanese scumbags

[juki0h]

@Xytos smart japanese actually

[invicta62]

Screw California!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lexusES350h]

I thought this was about the recall haha, poor toyota, i feel bad for all the critismn they are getting. =[

[clos19851]

oops 2007 haha lol

[clos19851]

its is true most people would not want a car that only get 100 miles that too little of a range, and take too long to recharge and they will lose money cuz electric will not acommadate a person who is always on the go..that is why we must go fuel cell and not electric.

[AnytimeMinutes]

It'd be hilarious to run over there in circles with my diesel, even though it does get an efficient 22 mpg, they don't know that xD

[edstar83]

in other words... DO NOT BUY A NEW CAR UNLESS IT IS ELECTRIC. People power! yeah?

[edstar83]

If people want EV's... STOP BUYING every brand new $50 000 fossil fuel smog machine they release every year!!!! keep your current gas car until they listen to our demands and release EV's. its that simple.

[omarspence]

Biased US emissions laws keep fuel efficient diesel cars out of the US. one good example of this is the new landcruiser, which is only sold in a thirsty petrol powered version in the US barely making 15mpg while the diesel version sold everywhere else gets 30mpg. NOx and particulates for which diesels are maligned don't hold a candle to the copious amounts of CO2 put out by their petrol powered counterparts.

[libertariananarchist]

hands off my car enviro-nazis. f*^% your insane pollution laws on cars and the fix it tickets your nazi cops write to people who modify their cars california.should i say people peoples republic of california?

[MerryJoy123]

stupid enviromentalist wackos! They should go home and mind their own business!

[Rickdeckard2020]

People need to know which corporations takes sides againt the public to be on the side of Oil and polution

I look forward to the Mitsubishi iMiEV and other elecectric cars (that is if corrupt politicians and corporate lawyers dont prevent the sale of EVs with BS legislation)

[liveoilfree]

Toyota lost the lawsuit, but now the Bush oil-flunkies are denying California the EPA permission to continue to set its higher standards. So Toyota is allied with Bush as well as GM.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

This is dumb. Government shouldn't be regulating car companies telling them how many mpg they have to get. Companies will make more efficient cars over time without government restricting the crap out of everything. This will hurt they economy. Click on my name and see my channel...LIMITED GOVERNMENT!

[liveoilfree]

That's insane. Allow the auto companies to do what they want, and there would be no emission controls.

Government is needed as a 'fair broker' to level the playing field.

[terrorist420x]

I agree with KaneFenton4Freedom under one condition, that the automakers be made to pay for the social and environmental costs associated with the manufacturing of their vehicles and the oil companies with the manufacturing/storing of their fuel, and remove ALL government subsidies to both of these industries. Both these industries soak up government money like the fat welfare queens they are and this inevitably means higher taxes and more government for us.

[terrorist420x]

35 mpg CAFE is laughable. Look up VRI of Western Wash. University. Viking VII, 50 mpg, 0-60 in 5.3 second, 186 mph supercar from 1970s. 1983 Volvo LCP 2000, safe as new cars today, 0-60 in 11 seconds, 110 mph top speed, no cost penalty if mass produced, 56 mpg cty, 81 mpg hwy. PNGV cars of 1990s were midsize, 0-60 same as normal cars and 70-80 mpg. 35 mpg ain't shit, could do 70 mpg without the consumer sacrificing a thing. Industry refuses to make good, affordable, efficient cars on purpose.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Hmm...I sorta agree but making them pay for producing cars is going to hurt them badly leading to high priced cars, ect. It's causes a chain reaction. So I would leave the first part out...But I agree 100% with you on the whole subsidies. Our government shouldn't be subsidizing anything. So stop subsidies for everything and everyone...that cuts spending, gets government back into their own business, works great.

[terrorist420x]

They could produce EVs instead and lower their costs. That's how the market is supposed to work. Evolve or die. Igf the auto industry still refuses EVs then, they'd deserve to go under. Corporate welfare is $200 billion a year according to Public Citizen, nevermind all the defense budget associated with keepin the oil flowing. The real cost of gas is about $10/gallon without subsidy or Joe Taxpayer picking up the tab to keep the oil flowing! Big business and big government are one in the same.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Yes, some business are bad...fraud is supposed to be protected by the government and if they pollute terribly, then they should be fined...but define bad pollution. Everyone pollutes in some way...it could greatly hurt the economy if we just fined people and companies whenever. Governments biggest job is to protect freedom, our rights, and independence...but they must respect the 2 natural laws.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

And by intervening the government isn't protecting your rights, they are taking them away...or they take someone else's rights away...it's called free market and it works great. People...PEOPLE...The consumers will be aware of pollution and boycott companies that pollute terribly...they will go for cleaner cars or cleaner products instead forcing those companies to get clean or die from lack of business.

[terrorist420x]

Boycotting transportaton is impossible when there are few viable alternatives for most people on the market. The technology is here and the 'market' hasn't provided, because the 'market' doesn't want to. But we really don't live in a free market society. A true free market involves consumers and communities affected by business decisions in the decision making process, not just the sociopaths in the boardroom. The boardroom uses the government to enforce its will too...

[terrorist420x]

There exists a point where in order to maximize economic growth further, people's rights get shoved to the side. Oil refinaries pollute our air, everyone breathes it, even those who choose not to use cars. If fuel price goes sky high by forcing damages to be paid for and causes less spending and hurts the economy, so what. Peoples property rights remain preserved. Eliminating the military industrial complex would be bad for the economy too. Liberty or money, pick...

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

First of all, government isn't fair...not by any means at all. It's corrupt, too big and this would just make it bigger. Government was never meant to have any control over the economy. We were founded on British Common Law...that is basically the 2 natural laws...look them up!

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Government isn't fair. They are corrupt and have too much power already.This will just give them more power. Our nation was founded on Common British Law...basically the same as the 2 natural laws...look them up. Also, our government wasn't ever given the power to regulate or control the economy. When government intervenes, it messes things up alot.

[terrorist420x]

Not all government is bad. The government is supposed to intervene to protect the rights of people, first and foremost. A company that pollutes the air I breath and water I drink without compensating me for damages is violating the most fundamental property right, the right for a person to keep their body free from harm. Government has become tyrannical, and has done so usually on behalf of big business.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

Government has a simple job given to it by the constitution. Keep people from hurting one another or killing one another. It doesn't say anything about forcing companies to get certain mpg or tell banks what to do or whatever else. The reason our economy is hurting is because we already have too much government in it right now.

[terrorist420x]

I agree. And we have too much government because certain corporations inflated it through lobbying politicians to change the laws in their favor and fight wars in order to boost spending. Further, the constitution DOES NOT give corporations the same rights as people, even though the courts said otherwise. Giving them the rights of people allowed the Federal Reserve to be what it is today. Unconstitutional.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

You're not trying to get big companies to help clean the air, you're just running to the government to force them to comply even if it puts thousands out of jobs, messes up the companies which greatly effects the economy. Our economy was meant to be free...also known as free market...the free market can solve anything.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

Ex: Gas prices are very high. Few people are going to buy huge gas guzzlers when they know it will be exp4ensive, sooo, companies try and build new affordable efficient cars to attract costumers. They make a huge profit thus helping the economy and the company and the earth. Then another company follows that, creates competition and lower prices and better cars...

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

then someone will be motivated to find a new fuel source, they'll get rich, others will follow. it can all be solved by the free market with time. It will let the economy thrive. GOvernment has no power and business to step in and regulate everything thinking they are helping, they aren't helping, they are messing things up.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

Free markets should remain free and thing will work better. You just don't look at the economical side or political side of this, you just want clean air, but don't think of the side effects of what you're doing.

[terrorist420x]

And big business just wants profit, and doesn't care whos property they damage or whos civil liberties they have the government destroy to get it. The side effects of the 'free market' big business supports is a loss of liberty, loss of privacy, and dependence on others. Just like Stalin's perverted form of 'communism', the perverted 'capitalism' of our time is similarly disasterous. The suppression of the electric car and other alternatives exposes this maxim.

[terrorist420x]

The new fuel sources have been found. Industrial hemp was able to be used as fuel, plastic, other stuff since the 1920s, but large companies like Hearst, DuPont, and Standard Oil were threatened by its potential and used the government to get the war on drugs started. 300 gallons of seed oil per hectare per harvest, EROEI > 2, gentle on soil. Electric cars also work, but industry refuses to make them and government hates them.

[terrorist420x]

Wish it worked that way. Car companies don't build what they want the consumer to buy, not what the consumer wants. Few companies have a place in the US market. Competition is lacking. Efficient cars that the big three were willing to sell were purposely low quality. We could have had 30 mpg V8 musclecars in the 1970s by lowering aerodynamic drag. When consumers wanted efficiency, big 3 saw it fit to punish them with anemic econoboxes with little load reduction over cars previously sold.

[terrorist420x]

If the consumer wants an EV and the car company wants them to buy an SUV, they'll build the SUV. Since there aren't many companies to choose from and all of them refuse to build EVs, and everyone reliant on cars is going to buy something; no EVs get bought. But the consumer never had their choice to begin with. Choose a limited array of products that appeals to perhaps half the population, with little other choices. The market, though rigged by industry through government, has failed.

[terrorist420x]

In a free market, the consumers would actually have a choice. The auto industry certainly does not promote this at all. They in fact lobbied for much of the regulations in the 1970s that made it impossible for small automakers to ever gain a foothold. While I disagree with CAFE, it is a good temporary fix, IF it is given some teeth. 35 mpg is laughably inadequate and we could do double that no problem. I wouldn't support CAFE though if I wee in congress.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

The free market has failed because of greedy, idiotic politicians...government involvement. We shouldn't have subsidies or as many regulations as we do. If the free market were free, then things would be great. You can't say the free market is failing because you have never seen a free market.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

The freest markets in the world thrive...A lot. Things are great there. Auto Companies don't hurt anyone...or at least give me an example. I'm saying politicians shouldn't do what auto companies ask and politicians shouldn't get involved...both ways it's involvement and that's bad.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

There are cars from every price range...any range of efficiency..from 4 mpg to 90 mpg...to electric to air powered. People work on them everyday because they know they'll get rich when they find the new fuel...when they do, everyone wins...auto companies and the people

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

No one is forced to buy an SUV...people can find hybrids all over the place, people can find any kind of car...gas guzzler to gas sipper. Auto Companies can be greedy which is why government shouldn't be giving into them..so government stays out completely...then things can thrive.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

Consumers aren't idiots...they can find what they want and somebody is going to have it. There are so many car companies working to find renewable fuel...you make the auto industry sound almost evil...some PEOPLE are...but not the whole industry and it wouldn't be so "evil" if government stayed out. Completely

[terrorist420x]

There's lots of good people working in this industry, but the practices of it as a trend have been malignant. The demand for EVs is huge and the major automakers are outright refusing to meet it. Mitsubishi is willing to demonstrate prototypes and make promises, and may actually deliver to foreign markets, but that's about it as far as pure EVs are concerned. Technology viable since the 1990s, yet consumers still don't have an affordable long range EV available.

[terrorist420x]

'Gas sipper' is relative. In the U.S., the current 'choice' of cars available mostly get under 30 mpg. Opinion Research Corporation claims 88% of Americans agree U.S. automakers should make available to American market every car they sell outside the U.S. that gets over 35 mpg; survey concluded that the U.S. market for those fuel efficient cars currently available overseas but not in the U.S. was 2.5 million consumers, out of 7.7 million new cars sold each year. They refuse to meet the demand.

[terrorist420x]

You can't buy affordable long range EVs in the US or 80 mpg midsize cars in US don't exist, despite that the technology is there and is affordable if in volume. Industry has other ideas, despite that consumers would flock at the opportunity. Canyon racers want sub $20k sports car weighing under 2500 lb, know its possible and have strong demand; industry won't meet it. Consumer gets steered to other choices by refusing to place certain ones on the market. Also, research 'price discrimination'.

[terrorist420x]

China is often considered one of the 'freest' markets in the world today. They may have a thriving economy, but they also have lethal injection vans driving around Beijing and their industry and government are ruthless when it comes to using force to prevent people from unionizing or assembling to address grievances. Some nations without any real government(like Iraq today) are basically run by few conglomerates, there is virtually no freedom since it interferes with profit.

[terrorist420x]

You didn't understand why I put 'free market' in quotes then. The major players in the market have basically used politics and money to their advantage to place in power a government that would rig the laws and regulations in their favor. Small businesses thus are prevented from ever being a threat to established companies in the auto industry.

[terrorist420x]

A real free market would entail the consumer being able to know the exact specifications of the product they buy. When looking at a car, do they not have a right to know how safe it is relative to others? If industry won't provide an objective means of comparison(and they didn't), then another alternative is needed. Some simply looked to the government, flawed as it is.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Auto Industries aren't that evil. People can find out all the specs...some auto companies are so sure of their products, they get the consumer to look at the competition first, just to see. They provide fuel economy...safety, power, features. You can test drive it.I guess it just depends where you go, but most of the time they give customers the info they want.

[terrorist420x]

It was common practice for the Big 3 and other companies to exaggerate their specs. Remember the Dodge DeTomaso that got 50 mpg highway? Or the Chevy Luv pickup that got 53 mpg highway? Maybe at a steady 35 mph in top gear... Or GM's assurance how stable the Corvair's handling was despite the obvious lack of rear sway bars in a rear engine rear drive configuration? LOL

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Well, there should be government making sure companies aren't selling cars that are going to explode or anything or cause a lot of accidents, but there have been cars in the past that have been made illegal because they weren't safe but really they were...

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

so there should be limited regulation on the cars allowed on the road, but government shouldn't have power to determine fuels source, mpg, or price tag. It just has to fight fraud and if we get government totally disconnected then things will be good, that means no more companies getting laws in their favor and no more strict regulations hurting the economy..goes both ways!

[terrorist420x]

For this to work, we need some way to reign in the virtual monoplies we have. Achieve this, and this idea could work. The problem is, corporations are not inclined to control themselves. They'll hurt anyone and anything they can and manipulate what they can to make an extra buck, just like government! Human nature is one pesky bitch. But I like a lot of what you say.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

That would be fraud...that is the governments job. But people aren't idiots and we are capable of finding what businesses are bad and we are capable of boycotts. If they commit fraud...then the government gets to deal with them...fairly. 2 Natural laws...they never fail!

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

I totally get what you're saying...and that's very flawed. We shouldn't have politicians, government playing any part in the economy. There are big greedy companies who push for regulations that will help them, and if that's the case, then I don't like it. If the government stays out completely, then that could really help things, because those companies wouldn't have anyone making laws to help them out, it would be a totally free market and those guys would have to play fair.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

Government has a few jobs, a few small jobs...protect our freedom, independence and God given rights(bill of rights) Fight crime and fraud...so keep people or businesses from committing fraud and keep people from killing or hurting one another...2 natural laws...but now government has taken a massive role in not only the economy, but our everyday lives.

[terrorist420x]

Yeah. Individual people are regulated to within an inch of their lives today. Each major property you own is tracked by IRS without probable cause, personal information is routinely gathered and often misused through the use of background checks and other methods(mostly from the private sector, who sees it fit to profit by selling such info to government when they can! eg. Choicepoint), yet some corporations can get away with murdering thousands of people overseas to suit their agenda.

[terrorist420x]

It isn't always the government's fault for these problems in society, just as it isn't always industry's fault. Our Founding Fathers didn't shun the government outright. They shunned BAD government. A good government is a government that is subservient to and IS its citizens, and is willing to prevent others from defrauding or hurting these citizens. It doesn't matter whether its protecting them from crime, exploitation, or pollution. Currently, our government is anything but.

[filmmaker123]

hello. you sent me this video. When was this protest??? last year? ten years ago? i think you should go to borders and buy your self a video production book read it. then come back and look at this film and see just how crappy it is. =)

keep the filmmaking going!

peace!

[liveoilfree]

I'm not a film maker, just report the facts.

[maveric99]

It's a wonderful film. But that is a good question about when this protest occurred. Was it recent or did this happen years ago? I see that you added it to youtube on 10/23/07. Thanks for your efforts on this!

[liveoilfree]

That's when it was, it's all about AB1493, the auto alliance suing California to keep the air dirty.

[Nichen]

God I love your enthusiasm...I wouldn´t hesitate for a second if I could have joined you

[JUKIO01]

im sure ther is a good reason why toyota is sueing, just dont jump to conclucion right away. anyways, i dont think people really care about the air, only the hippies and tree huggers. people just dont care about these kind of things, i say just forget about it, and let toyota do it. plus you can always go live somewhere else if you dont like the air here.

[liveoilfree]

Yes, the Progressive Democrats may help. It's dolorous to picket Toyota, which was the only company to sell an Electric car, but the question is, why should Toyota sue for dirty air?

If Toyota is playing games, helping GM to commit hara-kiri, that' s not right either. We'd like Toyota to re-issue a pure Electric car, theirs was the best.

[terrorist420x]

I'd like Toyota to sell their 1991 Toyota AVX concept. 1,500 lbs curb weight, 0.26 drag coefficient, 56 horsepower direct injection diesel, and 89 mpg city, 110 mpg highway fuel economy.

Or better yet, a pure EV Prius with perhaps an AC100 drive and 26 kWh Panasonic NiMH pack for perhaps 150 miles highway range and 0-60 mph in 8 seconds. too bad Cevron holds back large format NiMH.

[Bogt]

I am getting flashbacks here.:-( Why is Toyota and other manufacturers) doing this? they can make it! easily! I hope your protest will have effect. Are you also looking @ getting media coverage and talk to let's say people with power(to change stuff)?