F1 KERS system 2009

[AndreiMikhailovich]

Супер!!!!!

[manytoolsmike]

Notice the designer is running XP on his laptop. Hahahaha.

[ale03000]

Does it reduce brake wear for the friction brakes like for road cars (which could reduce maintenance fees :], less brake pads changes)?

[devilselbow]

@ale03000 Any reduced maintenance fees would be offset by the fact that's there's a whole new system requiring maintenance...

[jas0609]

Although F1 cars have all this amazing technology, F1 races are still very boring. There is hardly any overtaking and only the top three teams wins races. F1 one was good back in the eighties and early nineties. Now, the sport is nothing but a bore.

[MRNU979]

@jas0609 have you even watched any of the races in 2011? because there is no lack of overtaking this year.

[TheSimCaptain]

@jas0609 Are you you kidding? Where have you been during this F1 season? The Canadian Grand Prix was the best I've seen yet! Amazing! Apart from that, there's a good article about the electric motor/generator version of KERS at - suite101.com/content/formula-o­ne-is-kers-a-blessing-a363152, and it also has some good video links.

[ResultantForce]

KERS system in general is amazing however I think that the flywheel itself could be improved

[legioner9]

THey care about money, not the beauty of the sport!

[chewser117]

I give it 10 years and all the tuners will be throwing this in their WRXs and FT86s.

[Kreisais]

Bring back the time when Aerton Senna jumped on 3 wheels around the track, no pussy electronics or systems, just raw power and skill.

[XcopeS]

@Kreisais And balls.

[GHOSTTOYS]

hahahahahaha ford model t idea still are good lol its not like the invent something new they just reintroduce it ....

[MrTenek07]

@GHOSTTOYS ford model t.... was the first model being mass produce..

[MrAmoury]

@MrTenek07 are you aware that the model T prototype from Henry Ford was powered by an Alcool engine , an that the alcool was self produce by him whit is own seeds that came fr0m is Hemp field!!! Amm0 , para la terra

[leva9382]

FIA, We love Formula 1 !!!! Don`t kill her!!!!

[shabiz12345]

i want KERS in my car....

[LoserMcBeaver]

@shabiz12345 same here! DAMN

[MrSlowestD16]

Yeah, if you're only pushing 10k you can do that on a standard train, I really hope they don't cap RPM that far down...like 17 I gues I could see, but 10??

[MrSlowestD16]

Look, I don't mean to be a dick here...and I'm sure I'm going to piss somebody off by saying so...but they're making this sound RIDICULOUSLY REVOLUTIONARY. The concept of using kinetic energy to produce electricity isn't anything new...we've been doing it in alternators/generators for 50 years...yes, the applications change, technology allows for different materials, etc., but the concept of turning something already rotating into electrical energy isn't anything new....not by a long shot...

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 lets face it, many revolutionary ideas are other ideas reinvented for another use - or in the case of formula one - old revolutionary ideas that didnt would but were reinvented and did work. the shark fin was a reinvented idea, ferrari hole nosecone on the f2008, ferrari angleing their engine and transmission 3.5deg to increase ground clearance for diffuser on the f10 (copying arrows a2), the rb6 exhaust-blown diffuser (common in early 2000s), and more. thats f1. thats engineering

[MrSlowestD16]

@JamesHol100 Oh, no doubt, and I'm not saying it's not a brilliant idea - it is. I was just musing the way they were making it sound so revolutionary. If we take one of the examples you gave us, it'd be like everybody talking about how revolutionary it is that they were able to angle the engine/trans 3.5* to get the necessary ground clearance. Great idea, def wouldn't have thought of that, but I wouldn't say it's revolutionary b/c it was a (smart) small tweak to what they had.

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 well as an engineer i find that interesting and revolutionary, so maybe i find the smaller things more intriguing but it is an evolution and in formula 1, evolution is happening all the time. revolutionary ideas, like what you are suggesting, are rare with the tight regulations (which are always getting tighter to prevent them - consider the F-duct) they will become more scarce (but more important) - so evolutionary ideas like angleing the drivetrain is a major idea.

[MrSlowestD16]

@JamesHol100 As an ex-mechanical engineer, and somebody that loves innovation, cars, and technology in general, I also find it interesting.  Though by no means would I call it revolutionary, that's all. I agree, with the increasing restrictions/regulations on many aspects it becomes increasingly hard to give you the cutting edge in terms of tech (which is kind of why these restrictions are there), it's definitely a nice system, a brilliant idea. I just don't believe it's revolutionary O.o.

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 i agree. but formula one is a business - as well as a sport and a r&d project. they use this to improve the image of the sport for the business side of things - sponsorship!!!!! i think that is why it is hyped up. as you say, it not revolutionary (but not much is in f1 now) and its not producing great racing from my view (kovalainen reovertaking barrichello at turkey 09 springs to mind). but then again, most people dont understand the system and believe it is revolutionary...

[MrSlowestD16]

@JamesHol100 Yeah, I guess if you're trying for the business side of things, it makes a lot of sense to push it like that. I definitely like the aspect of the system, regardless of how it's implemented, though, as it gives drivers an extra strategy piece to manage.

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 i think a good route (and also green) formula one should take is a 6-stroke engine. upto 40% greater efficiency than a 4-stroke can be achieved at minimal powerloss. rather than the old otto cycle,and extra two cycles are added. water injection (turns to steam due to heat and expands pushing the piston) and exhaustion of the steam. an old idea than never really kicked off due to cost and complexity to replace 4-strokes but f1 could get it going. what would you say?

[MrSlowestD16]

@JamesHol100 I don't know any more of a 6 stroke than what you've provided here, so I can't think much. I'm not too fond of the idea as I believe it separates the F1 cars' heart too much from that which is attainable by "regular" cars (though comparing the two is a joke). Though yeah, F1 could definitely get it off the ground, it would most definitely then help trickle down into the consumer market, but only at top end cars at first, it'll take some time to reach cheaper, affordable, cars..

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 well f1 used kers really to fire it into the consumer market for road cars fundamentally. but no radiators are required (well on one type of 6-stroke cant remember) as the injected water acts as the coolant. so bernie, if your browsing this webpage, send the cheque!!!... but i always felt, what got me into f1 as a kid was the fact it was technologically advanced and i didnt understand the cars, it was fascinating. i dont thin kfans need to understand the cars in my opinion :S

[MrSlowestD16]

@JamesHol100 Yeah, they probably don't. Utilizing newer tech would definitely be an improvement, but you need one company to take the initial step and sink all the money into R&D before F1 is even open to the idea..

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 thats true. what is your opinon on the 2013 engines. 4-cyclinder 1.6ltr turbos? this is to try and get road car tech in f1 to develop the road car aspect, but i would have thought using spring valves or desmodromic valves would be better as no road car is ever going to rev high enough that it needs pneumatic valves.

[MrSlowestD16]

@JamesHol100 I actually hate the idea for 2013. Yeah, they're probably not going to go back to spring valves as they need to wind those things out hard to make power, but with FI it might be a different ball of wax, depending on the turbo size. I liked the V10's....I'm going to lose a lot of interest if they drop down to "tuned performance" car state..nothing they do should be achievable on the street (easily) :-\. I don't like the 2013 plans and I'd be pissed if they ban pneumatic valves.

[JamesHol100]

@MrSlowestD16 i think in 1988 the honda 1.5 v6 turbo could get 1200bhp ish in qualifying trim. but the 2013 engines might be 10000rpm limited - so i might be pointless have pneumatic valves for that. but its only a suggestion i think to cap rpm to that. i dont think it would be so bad reducing the power if there was a huge increase in the downforce of the cars. everyone hates the 2013 plans.

[circusboy90210]

formula 1 should be tottally unlimted rules, run what you brought stay in, on or close to the surface of the track(flying cars should not be excluded from doing what they are), anti gravity (if it were possible, ask the nazi's), etc... we should expect nothing but the next millenias' technology, as sits rules keep cars from being 500mph or better.

[zulx07]

KERS-KONEK ENGKAU RASA STRAWBER( YOUR DICK IS STRAWBERRY FLAVOR)

[rolandvanderent]

i would say make it a generator, run most efficient. select for charging or upright power input. than you save some weight maybe and friction losses..

[rolandvanderent]

Off course we already hear about the electro magnetic shockabsorbers, you can dampen a(control the ride) or get a little juice if you want. Electric motor are most powerfull, but storageproblems. Gasoline has lots of btu's in small container.

Trade off! every otto engine has its range in which it works best.. add range and power by adding electric engine. off course weight is an issue. Race is something other than day by day driving.. you really need 400 horses at peak by using max 100?

[rolandvanderent]

@ marinracer88 A little more continuesly ;-) offcourse need charging and release. And not suitable whole track long (corners). But why only on the straight? Btw how strong can magnetic brakes be? take that energy to charge. off course top it off with ordinary brakes. Kers is nice especially put into a little vacumed magnetic spinner at 100.00rpm.. no friction just charge. For these charges are fast and small. what will take it without much loss or heat buildup otherwise? capacitors? :)

[archreaper990]

Stick some NOS in there while you're at it.

[adfadfewfrewafawefaw]

@archreaper990 yeah lol

[MagnetalAB]

About gyro inertia that is not a problem

See calculation at Magnetal homepage

[xST4RSCREAMx]

if there is anything worse than an american sanctioning body is a european sanctioning body

[ksandom40]

If this furthers the research into this technology for other uses like mainstream cars, I'm all for it!

[rolandvanderent]

why at the push of a button.. Make it continuesly!

[marvinracer88]

@rolandvanderent Lol at that comment.

[SeeEverythingisEasy]

I love the abbreviations: KERS - Kinetic Energy Recovery System, MERS - Magnetic Energy Recovery System, WERS – Wind Energy Recovery System, SERS - Solar Energy Recovery System, BERS – BEERS Energy Recovery System (Have a drink and you’ll feel like you have more power too) JOKE. P anf F have some but not all of these. All this is easy to figure out if you have money. Just like fixing the economy, I can do that too just need money.

[Ezroable]

The should bring back the A1 Ring instead of working on those stupid technologys !

A1 = Best Race Circuit ever <3

[RedhotIta1]

1970 - 1990 ... Thats was good times for F1 :)

[10ssomeone]

@RedhotIta1 It certainly was, but i would say the days off hakkinen fighting shumi were beautifull days for F1 asswel , still i remain a F1 fan for life.. beautifull sport!

[noslover11]

what a bout gyroscopic inertia which resists changes in orientation thats very bad

for the driver it will by like driving a car with a mind of its own

[stellpoons]

lol that shit is spinning right behind the drivers head. Fuk that!!!

[comali2212]

All these technologies and millions of dollars to gain one more fraction of a second.

That's how F1 is becoming, more machine, less skills.

[doormagic]

The only limitation that ought to exist in F1 is in liters of fuel.Why not make a system with compressed air instead of batteries?

[Donut3010]

Kers: 6PS for 82sec.

[EVOLUTIONVIIIMRFQ400]

making a track is not that cheap broodyart...but the regulations are bull, I understand safety and all just that some of them are made there for closer racing to compete with NASCAR...I say the hell with the 80hp limit nd go to 100hp and unlimit the amount of "boost" the racers can use per lap...this will bring about even more technological advances and even more efficient hybrid systems like the GT3-R Hybrid

[broodyart]

We don't need the rules to be so restricting. Make bigger tracks for 300mph plus racing. To let progress happen, other things have to go with it. Safety...carbon weaves, better bonding materials other than the epoxies, that are more impact compatable. Possible advances, better than carbon fibers? But big turned, long straights on tracks, and flat out, top tech...That I'd like to see! 10 mile straightaways with giant gears added? Dangerous huh?

[circusboy90210]

@broodyart people have forgotten what racing is all about, it's not about the spectator @ all its a battle for supremacy of man & machine.

[JamesHol100]

he made a slight mistake. he said 60bhp but its actually 60kW of power which is 80bhp. using formula p=E/t , 400kJ/6.67s = 60kW of power. being bit of a smart arse :)

[5ky5tr1d3r]

@JamesHol100 60 kw is about 72-3 hp

[justingarak]

another one of al gore's garbage trickling down to humanity's doom & gaydom.

[McLarenMercedes]

@justingarak

idiot

[kaymanclark]

lol if i was a racing team i wouldn't have told anyone about it and just put it in the car and win two racing seasons THEN put it into the consumer cars then announce what we've done

[crichichi]

@kaymanclark its not that anyone didn't know about this system. it's been in place throughout the formula 1 world the past two seasons. it was strictly regulated by the f.i.a. anyway many teams decided not to use this system because it adds weight & it's weight that cannot be moved it must remain in a specific location on the car, so the teams couldn't add more weight where the needed it because of the kers system.

[ambee514]

@kaymanclark right because the f1 governing body doesn't inspect every aspect of the cars before races

[hellusbattus]

seems a little dangerous to put a spinning disk right next to the drivers head

[ToroQ3000]

Ya like the engine, transmission, and four wheels isn't scarry enough?

[IvanMD09]

@ToroQ3000 Good answer!!

[ChromatopelmaDude]

@ToroQ3000

Well, every second counts. Bad turn? Recover with KERS. Not really meant for top speed.

[aboothroyd0110]

As opposed to the volatile fluid that's being combusted and the parts of the engine already rotating at nearly 20,000 times per second which are located a couple of feet behind the driver?

Pretty sure there are more important concerns!

[aboothroyd0110]

Do apologise, I meant per minute.

[dodoshlodo]

it shouldnt be banned... its a great technology that will spill out onto the road car market by implementing regenerative braking into all vehicles

[foreclosurecity]

Dear 666Jet,

Why is it not fair. All these teams have sponsorship. They all have the ability to have this system on their cars. If a team chooses not to obtain it that's thier own fault isn't it?

Sorry for disagreeing with you but your analagy is like saying it's not fair for some of the cars to use radial ply tires while some cars on the track are still running with single ply tires, or it's not fair that some of them use turbo while others don't.

[DiscoBiscuitMan]

Well there are drawbacks to having KERS also, read up on it before you post you views, they carry no weight.

[666jet]

yeah, either they all use it or none of them use it. that should be the rule. i watched a race the other day and ferrari smoked the field with KERS. i thought it was a little unfair because the other teams weren't using it. i don't know if it's a money issue for the other teams or a lack of development but either way it's unfair...

[4B11T]

no its not an issue for teams to get a KERS. The difference is: F1 cars must weigh atleast 605kg including the driver. But teams usually make it much lighter and have around 70kg of weight to place where ever the feel necessary (front, rear, etc) With KERS, this takes away from the weight they can play around with. So ultimately, the benefits are unclear. Wether you should have a little bit of boost but worse geometry, or vice versa..

[DePalmez]

The biggest bullshit is forcing teams to spend millions on designing kers and then not obligating them to use it - Mosley is a real ignorant

[Ch1n4tw]

unbelievable how many people just have absolutely NO IDEA what they are talking about... stop posting BULLSHIT

(you know if i am talking to you)

[kikijv97]

I like KERS. I have big magination: I wnt to have KERS in my cart LOL, funny but serious. BTW Nitro oxygen is good for F1 . I do not know so much about TURBO cause when they were driving with it I was not even born.

From Croatia.

[vjanik]

KERS is banned for next year I I doubt that Williams F1 will use their fly-wheel system in the remianing 4 races. so this video is just a bunch of bullocks and marketing chatter, nothing more.

another thing: why ban KERS if teams invested millions of dollars developing it? what happened to cost cutting? either dont introduce a totaly idfferent technology, or let it stay for long term. why limit the teams in the amount of energy they can extract from KERS? shouldnt F! be at the limit?

[jraybay]

Yea I know... and i heard v6's for 2013 -_- . but with kers I wish they would just equip all cars with it instead of some having it and some not. either f1 has it or they don't. Also where did you here it banned for 2010? is true?

[vjanik]

well its not technically banned, but FOTA "agreed" not to use KERS. but now williams are saying they will use it in 2010 (they were not part of FOTA when the agrement was made). But in order to ban KERS all teams (including the new ones) have to agree to this. we will have to wait and see..

[jraybay]

...which one is worse f.i.a or fota? lol. I would like to see all cars with it because without it these new traks like valencia singapore and abu dhabi have no passing places :\ . Kers is like a for sure >__>

[singningwongho]

kers is crap. get rid of it.

[alexwribs19]

F1 died when Senna died. Those were the days...

[husnainanwaar1992]

this year for the first time bost is intrrodused to f1 cars

[yaivaa]

By the beggining of next year they will invent another device that will take hundreds of thousands of euros and that will keep the races EXACTLY THE SAME (or even worse)

Congratulations to the "overtaking group" of the FIA

[Cloxxki]

If road cars and the environment are to benifit, why limit the amount of energy reconvered by KERS to maybe 0.1% of total energy taken from burning fossile fuel? Make engines smaller still, and let team take substantial power from KERS. That some teams not even using it right now, speaks books about the limitations of the rule.

[blacky05hotmail]

It's only the first year they have had it, so obviously it's not going to be overly prominent. Like the guy said at the end, it will increase technology and that will in turn increase its use in F1

[maumuapaseh]

this is no fun at all !!

even an old lady can overtake the champion if she using KERS !!

look at motogp, bernie !!

please look at it !!

[darkoneforce2]

You must not know F1/GP racing history very well.

In the 60s amateurs could come in and be competitive against the top drivers because their cars were better (meaning more reliable in most cases ).

Slower drivers like Brabham could beat faster drivers like Moss/Clark to the victory and championship because their cars were more revolutionary/faster and reliable.

In a revolutionary mid-engined Cooper even grandma could beat a front engined "tractor" car.

Motorsport is not driver-sport.

[emetz44]

FIA kills the sports. All these restrictions brought this extremely expensive system. I hope that FOTA will really organize a new chamionship.

[PortugalGP]

Absolutely true!

For me, Formula One peak was in 1996 with Williams FW18.

Formula One is speed and with V-6 engines we can't get as much speed as with V-10

[darkoneforce2]

The peak was 1992 and 93 with the Williams FW14b and FW15C.

Active Suspensions, TC, ABS, semi-auto with full auto mode, even 4 wheels steering systems and and experimental eCVT that's wasn't allowed to race.

[PortugalGP]

@darkoneforce2

Thanks. Why all these regulations? If all of the cars were as advanced as Williams back in 1993, well, F1 would be a hell of a show...

P.S: Of course, safety is extremely important

[circusboy90210]

@darkoneforce2 amazing, how technology is reapeadatly suppressed , time after time.

[Evopoper95]

When KERS are here... there's no more TRUE RACING...

[ChromatopelmaDude]

KERS is a miracle-system, but highly dangerous as well. Red Bull's building caught on fire after a test went wrong, a BMW Sauber-mechanic got electricuted and another F1-car (can't remember which one), had to pit in again at a test, after KERS overloaded the engine and the cylinders cracked.

Using the right amount of kW to the engine, right time and well installed, it could be the succesor of nitrous oxide!

[seamaster007]

A clever implementation, and interpretation of the new rules.

[RCNewsARG]

Genial, reinventaron la máquina de movimiento perpetuo... jajajaja!!!

[JUFFAIR101]

THIS system is rubbish

[Clockworkster]

i miss the old DRIVERS battles....not siffusers and KERS battles...

[Yora21]

When your flywheel is lighter, you have extra capacity for other thingy, which you may have to leve out of the car if you use a heavier wheel.

[Itajiwolf]

he says that the flywheel they use is lighter and thus better

but all formula 1 cars have a minimum weight limit, and all of the cars run as close as they can to this limit at all times

so whats the point in looking for the lightest flywheel? why not just find the best regardless of weight and then lighten the car in other areas?

I just dont get that O.o

[clanOT]

they dont want to lighten the car. you underestimate the importance of ballasts, which are needed to control many things like weight distribution and centre of gravity. A heavier KERS will result in less ballast available to reach the weight limit of the car, which decreases flexibility in many other areas

[BenderRodrigez]

Also the center of gravity is much higher in a car using KERS, than in a car not using it... i think:P

[PortugalGP]

I want light and fast Formula One cars.

With that rear wing and with this KERS which weighs 60 kg, well that's not possible...

[clanOT]

i am not sure the minimum weight rules care about what you like

[PortugalGP]

As lighter the car is, the faster it can be

[clanOT]

are you joking

[PortugalGP]

It seems that you do not understand F1...

[clanOT]

weight is more down to fuel load than the car, the cars including drivers are all under 605kg and they add weights to meet the minimum. a light car will be useful if the driver is tall.

[cnknguyen]

bring back turbo f1...

[miguelsfilipe]

Very nice to see alternatives to chemical batteries in F1.

The flywheel is a very good choice for this kind of "workload".