石山流抜刀術 Ishi Yama Ryu RSW Sparring Night

[JeongMuKwan]

When contact is made to an unarmored partner, how is it as compared, say to a shinai making contact in an off-armor strike in kendo? Thank you.

[the1lyden]

Poor fella on the left didn't score 1 point....

[Kizenkai]

I don't understand why this is posted as being battojutsu? there is no drawing element? it's just kumitachi... i noticed the comment about the kaiso of ishi yama ryu holding the guiness world record, this was for senbongiri in 2000 which is very good, this is now held by Isao Machii who is the headmaster of Syuushinryuu school of swordsmanship in Japan... it would be nice to see some batto elements bought into this randoori style kumitachi

[allgXXd]

kendo at 4kyu level?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@allgXXd

...which would be good considering one of the guys in the video was only 7th kyu at the time of filming.

...and since this was our first time doing any type of sparring.

I'll take your attempt at an insult, as a compliment. thank you.

[allgXXd]

@IshiYamaRyuSeattle

hmm, i thought that it was some promo video, or what ever it was meant to be.

to me theres few things wrong that these guys do, and if you know anything abt sword fighting the you should too.

i just dont understand why but so much effort of making training video from where to analyze yourself.

i wouldnt dare do but my sparring videos on internet.maybe if i get dan , maybe then.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@allgXXd

Well my original intent was to have multiple sparring videos online as a means of showing our progress over time, and to allow experienced individuals an opportunity to offer constructive criticism. As you note, there are a lot of things wrong, even things that make me cringe a bit when I watch it back, but that is why we train. Though I'm happy to say a lot has improved over the last 2 years since this was filmed.

[allgXXd]

@IshiYamaRyuSeattle

thats cool.

anyway, i wanted to ask you how are the injuries?

to me it seems that only protected area there is your head.if this "katana" is even little bit hard, wouldnt it hurt when struck by medi or high power/speed?

to my amateur eyes it seems that wouldnt kendo men/kote/do help a bit?

wrongly and hard struck kotes would hurt like hell =)

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@allgXXd

You're correct, these do sting quite a bit if struck hard. We've since upgraded our protective gear to include kote since we did experience some hand/finger injuries, and have switched to better helmets.

We're not going for more complete protection since we feel that a bit of pain is an incentive avoid getting hit, and therefore is a disincentive to avoid taking unnecessary risks and look for "real" openings before striking so it emphasizes reading your opponent more.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

It is still a learning process, but we've improved quite a bit. I won't pretend that I've mastered it, because I'm still a student myself.

I'll be sparring with some kendoka(shodan/nidan level) at an event in April, and I'll post some video from that.

[chucknorrispranks]

why are you starting so close, and why are you leaning forward so much? starting close takes away the very difficult task of entering your opponents ma ai and leaning forward makes you off balance and in a bad position to actually cut through something.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@chucknorrispranks

Starting at issoku ittō-no-maai, which we did most of the time, is a standard starting interval in kendo. Occasionally we started at chikama. this was our first time using these weapons and since these weapons hit pretty hard, we didn't swing at full speed.

As for body position, we are actually not off balance. Also, considering that the founder of our style holds the Guiness world record for tameshigiri, the stance does not impede cutting ability as you suggest.

[staffsarge192]

RSW katanas? do u mean sakabatos or somthin else?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@staffsarge192

RSW is a small manufacturer of sparring weapons based out of Hong Kong. We are using one of their sparring katana for this exercise. Also, sakabato don't exist outside of the anime Rurouni Kenshin...the actual forging process and properties of a Japanese sword would make a sakabato (reverse blade sword) impractical.

[OBrien19]

I bet there was a few swollen knuckles after that dual

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@OBrien19

...which is exactly why we started wearing hand protection. lol.

[evilgummieshark]

We are all excited about the 27th, I am quite curious about the rsw, and if my suspicions are correct, we will also be adding it to our toolset. Im a bit curious as to how a POB of 6 affects the blade, and I suspect that it might make it act like more of a 'cutter' and have a bit of a commanding presense.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

@evilgummieshark

Lance (RSW Owner) accepts custom work, so I actually had him make a couple that were about 28.5" instead of 29.75" and had a POB of about 4". If you prefer a sword with a POB closer to the tsuba, you just need to specify that when making an order. Either way they still hit pretty hard. I think we all got bruised up pretty good after our sparring session last weekend. Wish I would have had the camera out for that one.

[mkkraze]

This song reminds me of what was played in Kung Fu Hustle.

[TomoeMichieru]

I can answer the question about crossing blades: it's meant to give a sense of ma'ai, or distance.Also, crossing swords near the kissaki (tip) allows you to get control of the centre line of the engagement. The closer your sword is to centre, the more control you have over the duel in most cases if not all.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Well stated. Thank you for your comment.

[curlywolf]

i think you guys are on the right track. it reminds me of my hokushin itto ryu training i did before. and it is true, many times one side sent their worst guy to run up the sword of the other side's best guy and nail him. a simple sacrifice for the greater good.

[SenseiAndyTengu]

This is good realistic technique. In my experienc it is the elusive single strike, where one fighter hits and the other fails that is the very hardest thing to do. I think that is the essential art of kenjutsu technique, its very hard. In Cobu we practice with modern armour/protective equipment and bokkens and this style is very close to what we do at the Tengu Dojo in the UK. Check out cobu warriors vids on youtube. We try to get as close as possible to real fencing with bokken.

[D04S02B04]

I have some questions to ask pertaining the techniques. I noticed the fighting is very linear. Are there any merits to fighting off the centre line with attacks delivered from the flanks? Or to attack with action on the blade through deflection? Or a firm dedicated attacking guarding the centre line instead of reaching precariously for the forearm? The defences seem limited, are there more variations of play/parry/deflection that can be used?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

With respect to your questions...

Well first we have to take into consideration that this is a training exercise since there is a huge disparity between the experience level of the participants. So this is not representative of how IYR technique actually functions; in fact the person on the right is going very easy. There are a multitude of deflections/parries which exist, and we do use off-line attacks extensively.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

The multitude of wrist (kote) strikes in this video was simply a result of the student leaving his wrist exposed for an easy strike.

The following video shows a greater array of technique than this one:

/watch?v=BPH09fZ0-XU

However, it is still between an advanced practitioner and less experienced students.

[PCDental1]

AWESOME!!!

[stalker1983]

Hi

Well is certainly the most controlled sparing I have ever seen on youtube. Which is very nice to see :) As for criteque of your school I am sure you have realised (Reading you answers), people tend to have issues with schools that portray themselves as traditional when they are not, and assume all new schools portray themselves as traditional. Ofcourse it is always up to the individual, if they want the history go for a traditional school, if a new school appeals to you go there :D

[Saemaey]

hmm..i dont get it..what is the difference between this style and toyama ryu?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Actually, quite a bit. Stance, posture, swing mechanics, pre- and post-cut positioning, chiburi/noto, etc. are all different from Toyama Ryu. There is some overlap, but the two styles are pretty distinct.

[Saemaey]

I see...or i understand..not sure wich...anyway wich one would be better to start with for a beginner? im more laid towards the defensive side if that matters

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

All martial arts are geared for beginners. What is important is that you enjoy the style, find with and connect with its teachings/philosophy, and have an instructor who can communicate the teachings effectively. There are many styles of swordsmanship, and most often we are limited to what is available in our community. Look and see what is available, meet with the instructors, observe a class, do some background research, and make an informed decision. Good luck in your journey.

[jkasonwolf]

hi...

how many styles do u usually practice in a day?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

In our school the only style we practice is Ishi Yama Ryu. There are currently schools in Seattle, Dallas and Washington D.C., and an affiliated school in Los Angeles.

Personally, I also train in Mugairyu Iaihyodo under a different instructor.

[Naisho07]

I was watching the sparring and was just wondering if the normal posture is supposed to be leaning forward so far? Some of the leaning seems to come from the very wide stance that looks a like a karate style zenkutsu-dachi with the back foot turned outward. Seems like they would have more spring with a straighter posture and a less-wide stance with a straight back foot. Thanks for posting :-)

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Our style uses this particular kamae to create a more stable stance with a lower center of gravity. It allows us to make short, but quick movements in any direction. Ultimately, we don't want to be the ones springing forward, but rather allowing the opponent to attack and then being able to respond appropriately (katsujinken). Since this was training, it was more me being offensive and trying to get the other student to respond...it takes a while, but that is why we train.

[Naisho07]

Nice, thank you for the explanation. I understand now :-) Keep up the good training

[jkasonwolf]

may i ask how far is your achievement in practicing or rank for now?

and how many years have you practiced so far... :D

I'm quite interested in this art...

[shintogunjin]

にんてんど wii song

[yetzirahsan]

So many people fail to realize that the more realistic you get, the less flash is necessary. Even in kendo, the philosophy of "one cut" or "striking from the void" is the highest goal. Musashi said that a master strategist of long sword would never look exceedingly fast, but in perfect rhythm to his opponent. Also, speed is not possible in the way it is with shinai, when using a true weighted weapon. Try using one of these and youll quickly see that fact.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Well stated. Thank you for your comment.

[curlywolf]

i agree. this training situation is stressing "keep in mind these are supposed to be live blades" not "try to make a point with a bamboo sword"

[HijoDelMarte]

Cool! So this is how Japanese Swords Fighting can look like if you train with weapons of realistic weight?

Still appears to be rather quick and agile but certainly far away from that flashy hack´n slash crap you see in modern Kendo.

5 stars for this one. :-)

[Delmo67]

Do these swords have tsuba? Also, does anyone have a link to a website that gives more info about the weapons? I practice Sei-too ryu Kenjitsu, and as of late we have used actionflex for sparring but these seem to be much more suited for kenjistu practice. Could someone help me out so i could perhaps inform my sensei?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Thank you for your comments.

They are manufactured by "Realistic Sparring Weapons" in Hong Kong, and they do have functional tsuba. You can find them via a Google search pretty easily. They do custom orders as well, in fact I just ordered a few custom sparring katana from them a few days ago. I highly recommend them if you don't mind a little pain.

[jcpsky]

look wow how to say this umm this sucks . a kendo practitioner will eliminate you from the battle field . this is really sad . its kid play its was it is . cuts are wronf posture everything is wrong ........learn perhaps more if this is what you are teaching then plz dont go to japan ... soke yahagi sensei will just look down being ashamed of this .

[3dssd3]

I have never heard of a "soke [name] sensei". I'm inclined to think that you don't really know very much about Japanese swordsmanship in general.

Regardless, I think there is a difference between something being wrong and something being done in a different way. Even in the Seitei Iai, there are sensei which teach it differently than one another. Are they all wrong?

I tend to classify something as being wrong if it serves no purpose or would reasonably get the practitioner killed.

[Delmo67]

well said. I have no use for people who decide to bash a style because it is different. A true martial artist is to be humble. While i feel that the techniques in this video would only slightly hinder an opponent(the wrist attacks) i respect the style that is presented in the video. Perhaps instead of searching for faults in others, Jcpsky should instead turn his attention inwards and focus on his own short comings.

[dalaeck]

Interesting. Many of the attacks you're counting as legitimate here would never cause significant damage - perhaps it's the nature of the RSW weapons you're using. Very little foot movement and the deliberate crossing of swords is odd.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

You're correct. Since we had not used these before we were being cautious in order to prevent possible injury. We kept it simple and close which is why there was little footwork. However, some of the "surface" cuts, while not causing significant damage, would still cut to the bone which would disable muscle function. Maybe we could say this was more katsujinken than setsuninto, lol. It was a good exercise, and we've been able to open out our technique a lot more since this video was taken.

[curlywolf]

i disagree. a naked blade on a naked wrist could cause enough damage to end a fight.

[ronin2167]

@curlywolf Yep...in a real fight the shock from losing a hand would probably end it. Even if it didn't, the injured swordsman would be disabled and wouldn't have much of a chance if the attacker pressed the fight immediately.

[Shiakumu]

Why aren't they just using shinais and bogu. I've never seen what they're using.

[dexo180]

why did't you try another kamae? you could also attack sune

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Thanks for the comment. We actually do incorporate sune strikes quite regularly, although none are in this particular clip. Since Brandon was still new to sparring, we kept things fairly basic which is why we stuck with chudan no kamae for this excercise. Also, we do incorporate jodan, gedan, hasso and waki as part of our standard curriculum. Chudan is a fairly decisive kamae, which is why we tend to develop proficiency with it early on. Knowing when and how to use other kamae comes with time.

[mightydagon]

If you would like to see some slick kenjutsu, look up gohatto on youtube. Though choreographed, its still great to see. By the way, sweet video. I spar with jo on ken, as i love my shinto muso ryu.

[belisariusorb]

Excellent video, I'm hoping to take up kenjutsu soon...

[KhuranDixal]

Really good job guys! At last i found some sword sparring using a real sword style without using kendo or what.

I practice Kyushin Ryu Kenjutsu, and we do sparring mantaining our sword style too.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Thank you for your comment. Actually, I'm hoping that in the future we can meet up with other schools that practice sparring in order to have an inter-style tournament, so it is nice to hear that Kyushin Ryu incorporates sparring into their curriculum especially since a majority of schools do not.

[Samuraigothlord]

Whats the matter with kendo? -_-

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Nothing. In fact I've started training in kendo recently as well. ;)

The reason I'm interested in "inter-style" tournaments is because when you face someone who practices the same style, you know what techniques your opponent has at their disposal (e.g. you can anticipate what they will do based on a few ques). When you face someone of another style, there is another level of uncertainty involved, and therefore you must expand your perceptions in order to react appropriately to the situation.

[Samuraigothlord]

I agree. Those sort of fights make it a lot more interesting and unpredictable. Its a lot more realistic, if you know what I mean? But yeah...its fun. So is kendo of course. (I haven't done a kendo session for 8 weeks! *Cries*)

[EishinRyu]

this is by far the most controlled kumitachi jiyu randori that there is on youtube! good job! gannbatte ne keiko! also what are your opinions of the RSW katana?

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

どうもありがとうございました。

1) Personally, I absolutely love the RSW katana. Considering it is weighted and balanced like a shinken it allows for a much larger selection of waza to be incorporated while sparring. This creates a much more realistic experience especially when contrasted with a shinai, which lacks the feel of a shinken, or the padded foam and airsoft weapons used in chanbara which are extremely light and flexible.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

2) However, it does sting to get struck by the RSW weapons since they do have weight to them. In fact bruising is not uncommon. For this reason each student can elect to wear as much protection as they wish (helmets are absolutely mandatory). However, the fact that there is a consequence to getting struck (in the form of a little pain) creates a strong incentive to be more strategic in how you advance on your opponent.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

3)Similarly, getting struck also provides a quick lesson on where you are leaving yourself open. In fact the video I posted last night was filmed only a few weeks after this one and you'll notice that Brandon, the student on the left, does a much better job protecting his migi kote.

[and1kid23]

hey this is the music played in the nintendo wii comercial lol but nice vid

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Yep its the "Inside the Sun" remix of the Yoshida Brothers - Kodo. Its a fun track with lots of energy, so I thought it was appropriate. Glad you enjoyed the video.

[JesusFuckingChrist84]

Interesting choice of music my friend. :D

I have been fascinated with this style, and surprised at the lack of criticism, as it is a new style, I thought it would get the same complaints as Nami-Ryu.

How many Ishi-Yama dojos are their? I'd like to train at one when I travel, which should hopefully be soon.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Well we haven't been without our fair share of criticism. However, most of that was from individuals that heard about senbongiri but had never actually seen our technique, and were basing their opinions simply because we are a modern style. Obviously, many of the traditional means of testing the validity of ones style are no longer legal (e.g. dueling), so we challenge ourselves through more contemporary means such as sparring and tameshigiri.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

I believe there are still many out there that require concrete historical lineages as a means of determing the credibility of a style, and I believe those individuals will always be critical of new styles. We are not trying to parade as a traditional artform, but rather we present ourselves as a modern expression of japanese-style swordsmanship...essentially a different genre within the same artistic medium. Also, I think there are currently 4 or 5 dojos along the West Coast and in Texas.

[JesusFuckingChrist84]

I can understand, yet the criticism you receive isn't as bad as that of nami-ryu, and the only reason that it is receiving said criticism is because of James Williams and the fact that it is a new style. Sad that people pass judgement based on the age of the style.

Ishi-Yama ryu looks quite effective when it comes right down to tameshigiri, though I cannot say the same for sparring, as I haven't seen enough to offer an opinion.

[crookeyejim]

Additionally, since Seigan against Seigan doesn't seem to be working for you (addressing the guy on the left, of course), might I suggest pulling back into Daijodan no Kamae or Kasumi no Kamae? Kasumi is probably the most reliable counter, but if you're very quick on your feet you'll be in an ideal counter-cutting position once you avoid the first attack he launches from Seigan. He wont initially be able to attack your wrists, and as soon as he launches any attack, his wrist will be vulnerable.

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Thank you for your comments Jim. I just want to preface by saying we don't know necessarily focus on attacking the hands, but rather taking advantage of available openings...it just happened to be that Brandon (on the left) was vulnerable to kote strikes in these clips. Though admittedly, he is 5-kyu and I'm a nidan (on right) so the sparring match is a little one sided, but it is a good learning experience. We've actually been working on kasumi, perhaps we'll get some clips of that in action.

[crookeyejim]

If you're going to focus so heavily on attacking the hands, I encourage you to at least try a one handed grip with a more sideways facing stance. It'll allow you to disengage much faster. From a wide stance, when he cuts downwards at your hands, slide back and bring the sword to your body, stepping off-center. His cut will strike air and you'll be free to slide forward again and thrust to his torso or head.

[jackchn]

Greetings from Singapore.

Great to see Ishi Yama Ryu using RSW!

Thanks for uploading this. ;)

[IshiYamaRyuSeattle]

Thanks Jack. Maybe we can make a trip over to China for some friendly sparring matches with you guys sometime in the future ;)

[LancelotChan]

I'm happy to see you guys enjoying the sparring! :D It's the first time I see any videos of this particular style. It is quite different from other Japanese styles that I'm familiar of. Thanks for sharing.