La verdad solo empezando la aplicación del kata no es la correcta. Aún no entiendo por qué después de bloquear con aiwan nagashi uke, sueles sacar en la aplicación un ashi barai; ya que no hay ningún barrido en la aplicación. Entiendo la concepción de muchos de querer adornar un kata con cosas adicionales para embellecerlo, pero de pierde la "esencia" del bunkai como tal. Saludos, e igual un gran trabajo.
I like the second third and fourth bunkai..................not that I'm not fond of throws.............these looked unrealistic compared to the fluid and powerful throws we are taught in Judo...........
but the rest, particularly the fifth bunkai was awesum!!
This one's ok, but veered to far from the kata. If you want to put throws in almost every move, go ahead... why not... how about a monkey throw? What about a body slam? Hell, why not a POWER BOMB!!! This is WWF style Karate at its best!!!
The more comfortable one becomes with throwing and take downs, the less apt one is to be thrown or taken down because they will recognize the technique the opponent is attempting before it's too late. To not become proficient with throws in an age where everyone and their mother trains in judo and jui jitsu is just plain foolish, wouldn't you agree?
That's why most of the throwing/grappling techniques are not realistic/useless in many of these "invented" bunkai. If you haven't mastered grappling, don't try to put it in bunkai. It's like a dancer decided to add a Karate kick to her routine, not knowing if the kick is actually effective or not. In the end your just fooling yourself. That's why I compared this video to WWF/professional wrestling. Nice to see, but all throwing applications are unrealistic (opponent is not resisting).
@chudanjufood Also, I'm tired of seeing Age-Uke as a grappling technique (putting it under the attacking arm). Before I studied grappling, I always thought it was useless because to opponent could easily remove his arm. All effective grappling strategy requires you to secure a joint first so that the opponent can't release it, before you apply pressure.
@Bassai That I would have to agree with, Age-Uke is not to be used this way as far as I'm concerned. I have always seen the sets of Age-Uke at the end of this kata as maybe blocking a strike with the first and coming up into the opponents face with the second. My point was that its not a bad thing to look into the throws. You cannot master anything if you don't experiment with it. Besides, this was a demonstration, of course they're not resisting. Not all good, but not all bad either.
I train in Brazilian Jujitsu, but I'm also a sandan in Shotokan. Trying to combine the two is, especially in bunkai, is tricky. You must MASTER the art of throwing/grappling before you decide to add a technique to bunkai. To understand how to throw or grapple effectively, one must forget kata for a minute and concentrate on throwing/grappling practice with the opponent resisting or attempting to counter your techniques as well. Oi-Tsuki practice in grappling is useless and leads no where.
This is great bunkai. Well at least for its purpose. IMO, this bunkai is made for WKF style competions and demonstrations. Its purpose is to look "good." It is not for practical application, otherwise the attacks would resemble more realistic attacks.
@ronin752 surely though bungkai is used for application? although kata is more for showing off my understanding was that bungkai was turning it into application?
I really dont think so. Bunkai is a Japanese concept. Karate-do, which tends to emphasize character development, and so the applications tend to be unrealistic. They don't address attacks from people who are not trained fighters. When was the last time you saw an street fighter step back and throw a straight punch. The Okinawans have another term they use for real life interpretations of the kata.
@ronin752 Sorry, but Bunkai is not a Japanese concept. Both Goju-Ryu (Okinawan) of Morio Higaonna's school as well as Toguchi's (Shorei-Kan) always taught bunkai along with kata. It's always been that way as it is the same training model handed down from its Chinese lineage (Fukien White Crane). Many schools of Okinawan Shorin-Ryu also practice it, such as the Matsubayashi and Kobayashi schools, as following the Shuri-Te tradition. There are 3 interpretations: Omote, Ura and Okuden bunkai
Sorry, but from my understanding, bunkai is a Japanese concept. The original hogen word for what the Japanese call bunkai is ti chi ki, or what the hand is doing. While they might seem similar, the Okinawans seem to explore a moment and all possiblities of what the hand is doing. This is quite different from the bunkai approach, which tends toward inflexiblity (the moment is only this with little variation). Even oyo bunkai is often discredited or undervalued unless it comes...
from an acclaimed master. One of the things that I like about many of the BBJ/MMA practicioners is their laboratory approach to training. I wish more karate-ka took this approach, maybe we would move back toward bujutsu. Two things: One, I know of some seminars you may be interested in, and two check out a post by a shotokan practicioner on habitual acts of violence. I think it simplifies the concepts McCarthy addresses.
Sorry, but from my understanding, bunkai is a Japanese concept. The original hogen word for what the Japanese call bunkai is ti chi ki, or what the hand is doing. While they might seem similar, the Okinawans seem to explore a moment and all possiblities of what the hand is doing. This is quite different from the bunkai approach, which tends toward inflexiblity (the moment is only this with little variation). Even oyo bunkai is often discredited or undervalued...
I do agree with you about the throws. The angles are all wrong. Don't forget though, to the Okinawans, karate is a striking art. Therefore tuite, or grappling is used as a set up for the strike, as oppose to only using the strike to set up the throw.
@ronin752 I agree with you on that point, as Funakoshi himself writes in his "Karate-Do Kyohan", that Karate throws are performed after an initial strike.
Sorry, but from my understanding, bunkai is a Japanese concept. The original hogen word for what the Japanese call bunkai is ti chi ki, or what the hand is doing. While they might seem similar, the Okinawans seem to explore a moment and all possiblities of what the hand is doing. This is quite different from the bunkai approach, which tends toward inflexiblity (the moment is only this with little variation). Even oyo bunkai is often discredited or undervalued...
While I agree with your analysis of this bunkai, Okinawan karate has always had and contained throws. Not to the degree of judo or jujutsu, but tode jutsu (the original name for karate) was a complete art. By complete I mean that it addressed all ranges of combat striking, trapping, and grappling. I do think that there was little emphasis on groundwork. I think that the early shotokan-ka eliminated the grappling, they felt that the butoku-kai already had arts to address this.
All in all, I do not believe that you have to study jujutsu to address throwing. By the way, most of the BJJ I have see (and that is limited to MMA) doesn't seem to have the refinement when it comes to throwing. The judoka seem more skilled at throws. I do like the BJJ for the ne waza though!!! Have you checked out any of McCarthy's videos?
@ronin752 I agree that Judoka are more skilled at throwing. BJJ training opened my eyes to the reality of grappling, both standing and on the ground. To see if a throwing/grappling technique is effective, you have to practice it against a partner who will do everything to stop you from successfully executing it. Grappling is not as easy as it looks on TV. Example, it took me months to learn how to effectively apply an arm bar from full, half and cross positions against an unwilling partner.
@ronin752 Yes, I have checked out McCarthy's vids and admire his work, both in his research and progressive material (he's pulling classical Okinawan out of its shell of stagnation). I have three of his books and would love to join a seminar if he ever decides to teach in NYC.
@ronin752 Another theory I came across was that most of the early Japanese students of Funakoshi were already Judo / Jujitsu practitioners who had knowledge of basic Newaza or grappling techniques on the ground, and therefore probably disregarded Karate-based Newaza. Evidence of this would be Hironori Otsuka (founder of Wado-Ryu) and Yasuhiro Konishi (founder of Shindo Jinen Ryu), who were both established masters of Judo / Jujitsu before studying under Funakoshi.
Two things I don´t like at this performance 1st of all: NEVER EVER perform your Bunkai / Oyo Waza against Karate-like attacks. In real life nobody attacks you with an "perfect" Oi Zuki.
2nd: The Takedown at 0:43 won´t work against a real opponent because the Girl doesen´t use her arm and leg (correctly).
Nevertheless a goog "show" but not my style of Karate.
nice, love the take downs. Just like to say Bunkai is different for everyone because everyones interpretation of the kata is different. Bunkai is only limited by your imagination and knowledge of martial arts.
Very nice. Interesting takedown. I always understood the opening second technique (shortribs punch with other hand to ear) to be a block with a simultaneous punch (a shotokan rarity) After seeing this, I now wonder whether it COULD be a takedown. It is simple, (unlike other youtube bunkai) and does fit there. Sometimes things get lost in translation, but this is very interesting. I am going to bring this up at the dojo. Thank you. All of your techniques look very nice.
Master Funakoshi trained with Master Kano in Judo. So it is possible that this could be a takedown. At first, I ALSO thought it was a bit of a stretch, but it does seem to fit here. (who knows?) I understand what you are saying though. I look at some of the bunkai on you tube, and I think that I am looking at ju jitsu. It is very nice to watch, and the people are skilled, but karate is very simple, as it should be. The takedown here seems to fit. I could be wrong.
Funakoshi did not create the kata. So his training with Kano would not change the movement. Okinawan karate had throws prior to its introduction to Japan. Throwing and joint locking art parts of the original Chinese arts which form the basis of karate. However, this is not a particularly logical place for the throw.
@ronin752 Thanks for the response. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I guess I didn't make my point clear enough, so I'll clarify. Of course Funakoshi didn't create the kata.They were passed on to him by Itosu & Azato, and he to Nakayama. Than, Funakoshi changed the order of the Pinans, and called them heians. I'm arguing that, although it is understood that Okinawan karate most definitely had throws, Kano may have taught Funakoshi some NEW throws that he added to his personal karate. Osu
@ronin752 Don't misunderstand me. I can tell by your posts that you are very knowledgeable of kara-te. I simply want to clarify my point. Now, as to one of your points... could you please explain a little bit about ti chi ki? This is the first I've heard of it. I'd like to look into it a little further, but I don't know where to begin. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
La verdad solo empezando la aplicación del kata no es la correcta. Aún no entiendo por qué después de bloquear con aiwan nagashi uke, sueles sacar en la aplicación un ashi barai; ya que no hay ningún barrido en la aplicación. Entiendo la concepción de muchos de querer adornar un kata con cosas adicionales para embellecerlo, pero de pierde la "esencia" del bunkai como tal. Saludos, e igual un gran trabajo.
marloxini 4 months ago
Thi is a sirt bunkai
miriamloka135 1 year ago
I like the second third and fourth bunkai..................not that I'm not fond of throws.............these looked unrealistic compared to the fluid and powerful throws we are taught in Judo...........
but the rest, particularly the fifth bunkai was awesum!!
SheguftaHasnine 1 year ago
Oo the girl instantly told she was being hurt...
great video
asuraywolfgang 2 years ago
This one's ok, but veered to far from the kata. If you want to put throws in almost every move, go ahead... why not... how about a monkey throw? What about a body slam? Hell, why not a POWER BOMB!!! This is WWF style Karate at its best!!!
Bassai 2 years ago
The more comfortable one becomes with throwing and take downs, the less apt one is to be thrown or taken down because they will recognize the technique the opponent is attempting before it's too late. To not become proficient with throws in an age where everyone and their mother trains in judo and jui jitsu is just plain foolish, wouldn't you agree?
chudanjufood 2 years ago
By the way, very good video.
chudanjufood 2 years ago
That's why most of the throwing/grappling techniques are not realistic/useless in many of these "invented" bunkai. If you haven't mastered grappling, don't try to put it in bunkai. It's like a dancer decided to add a Karate kick to her routine, not knowing if the kick is actually effective or not. In the end your just fooling yourself. That's why I compared this video to WWF/professional wrestling. Nice to see, but all throwing applications are unrealistic (opponent is not resisting).
Bassai 2 years ago
@chudanjufood Also, I'm tired of seeing Age-Uke as a grappling technique (putting it under the attacking arm). Before I studied grappling, I always thought it was useless because to opponent could easily remove his arm. All effective grappling strategy requires you to secure a joint first so that the opponent can't release it, before you apply pressure.
Bassai 2 years ago
@Bassai That I would have to agree with, Age-Uke is not to be used this way as far as I'm concerned. I have always seen the sets of Age-Uke at the end of this kata as maybe blocking a strike with the first and coming up into the opponents face with the second. My point was that its not a bad thing to look into the throws. You cannot master anything if you don't experiment with it. Besides, this was a demonstration, of course they're not resisting. Not all good, but not all bad either.
chudanjufood 1 year ago
I train in Brazilian Jujitsu, but I'm also a sandan in Shotokan. Trying to combine the two is, especially in bunkai, is tricky. You must MASTER the art of throwing/grappling before you decide to add a technique to bunkai. To understand how to throw or grapple effectively, one must forget kata for a minute and concentrate on throwing/grappling practice with the opponent resisting or attempting to counter your techniques as well. Oi-Tsuki practice in grappling is useless and leads no where.
Bassai 2 years ago
This is great bunkai. Well at least for its purpose. IMO, this bunkai is made for WKF style competions and demonstrations. Its purpose is to look "good." It is not for practical application, otherwise the attacks would resemble more realistic attacks.
ronin752 2 years ago
@ronin752 surely though bungkai is used for application? although kata is more for showing off my understanding was that bungkai was turning it into application?
nonpoint1108 1 year ago
@nonpoint1108
I really dont think so. Bunkai is a Japanese concept. Karate-do, which tends to emphasize character development, and so the applications tend to be unrealistic. They don't address attacks from people who are not trained fighters. When was the last time you saw an street fighter step back and throw a straight punch. The Okinawans have another term they use for real life interpretations of the kata.
ronin752 1 year ago
@ronin752 Sorry, but Bunkai is not a Japanese concept. Both Goju-Ryu (Okinawan) of Morio Higaonna's school as well as Toguchi's (Shorei-Kan) always taught bunkai along with kata. It's always been that way as it is the same training model handed down from its Chinese lineage (Fukien White Crane). Many schools of Okinawan Shorin-Ryu also practice it, such as the Matsubayashi and Kobayashi schools, as following the Shuri-Te tradition. There are 3 interpretations: Omote, Ura and Okuden bunkai
Bassai 1 year ago
@Bassai
Sorry, but from my understanding, bunkai is a Japanese concept. The original hogen word for what the Japanese call bunkai is ti chi ki, or what the hand is doing. While they might seem similar, the Okinawans seem to explore a moment and all possiblities of what the hand is doing. This is quite different from the bunkai approach, which tends toward inflexiblity (the moment is only this with little variation). Even oyo bunkai is often discredited or undervalued unless it comes...
ronin752 1 year ago
@ronin752
from an acclaimed master. One of the things that I like about many of the BBJ/MMA practicioners is their laboratory approach to training. I wish more karate-ka took this approach, maybe we would move back toward bujutsu. Two things: One, I know of some seminars you may be interested in, and two check out a post by a shotokan practicioner on habitual acts of violence. I think it simplifies the concepts McCarthy addresses.
ronin752 1 year ago
@Bassai
Sorry, but from my understanding, bunkai is a Japanese concept. The original hogen word for what the Japanese call bunkai is ti chi ki, or what the hand is doing. While they might seem similar, the Okinawans seem to explore a moment and all possiblities of what the hand is doing. This is quite different from the bunkai approach, which tends toward inflexiblity (the moment is only this with little variation). Even oyo bunkai is often discredited or undervalued...
ronin752 1 year ago
I do agree with you about the throws. The angles are all wrong. Don't forget though, to the Okinawans, karate is a striking art. Therefore tuite, or grappling is used as a set up for the strike, as oppose to only using the strike to set up the throw.
ronin752 2 years ago
@ronin752 I agree with you on that point, as Funakoshi himself writes in his "Karate-Do Kyohan", that Karate throws are performed after an initial strike.
Bassai 1 year ago
@ronin752
Sorry, but from my understanding, bunkai is a Japanese concept. The original hogen word for what the Japanese call bunkai is ti chi ki, or what the hand is doing. While they might seem similar, the Okinawans seem to explore a moment and all possiblities of what the hand is doing. This is quite different from the bunkai approach, which tends toward inflexiblity (the moment is only this with little variation). Even oyo bunkai is often discredited or undervalued...
ronin752 1 year ago
@Bassai
While I agree with your analysis of this bunkai, Okinawan karate has always had and contained throws. Not to the degree of judo or jujutsu, but tode jutsu (the original name for karate) was a complete art. By complete I mean that it addressed all ranges of combat striking, trapping, and grappling. I do think that there was little emphasis on groundwork. I think that the early shotokan-ka eliminated the grappling, they felt that the butoku-kai already had arts to address this.
ronin752 1 year ago
@ronin752
All in all, I do not believe that you have to study jujutsu to address throwing. By the way, most of the BJJ I have see (and that is limited to MMA) doesn't seem to have the refinement when it comes to throwing. The judoka seem more skilled at throws. I do like the BJJ for the ne waza though!!! Have you checked out any of McCarthy's videos?
ronin752 1 year ago
@ronin752 I agree that Judoka are more skilled at throwing. BJJ training opened my eyes to the reality of grappling, both standing and on the ground. To see if a throwing/grappling technique is effective, you have to practice it against a partner who will do everything to stop you from successfully executing it. Grappling is not as easy as it looks on TV. Example, it took me months to learn how to effectively apply an arm bar from full, half and cross positions against an unwilling partner.
Bassai 1 year ago
@ronin752 Yes, I have checked out McCarthy's vids and admire his work, both in his research and progressive material (he's pulling classical Okinawan out of its shell of stagnation). I have three of his books and would love to join a seminar if he ever decides to teach in NYC.
Bassai 1 year ago
@ronin752 Another theory I came across was that most of the early Japanese students of Funakoshi were already Judo / Jujitsu practitioners who had knowledge of basic Newaza or grappling techniques on the ground, and therefore probably disregarded Karate-based Newaza. Evidence of this would be Hironori Otsuka (founder of Wado-Ryu) and Yasuhiro Konishi (founder of Shindo Jinen Ryu), who were both established masters of Judo / Jujitsu before studying under Funakoshi.
Bassai 1 year ago
awesome
RaitoNg 2 years ago
very nice the gurls awsome
mmalover16 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
well done guys
NakhitX 2 years ago
wow amazing do one for takeya ku showdown and hiyan nidan was always my favorite bunkai
bkballer2008 2 years ago
Two things I don´t like at this performance 1st of all: NEVER EVER perform your Bunkai / Oyo Waza against Karate-like attacks. In real life nobody attacks you with an "perfect" Oi Zuki.
2nd: The Takedown at 0:43 won´t work against a real opponent because the Girl doesen´t use her arm and leg (correctly).
Nevertheless a goog "show" but not my style of Karate.
Kind regards.
Jorikidojo 3 years ago
Excellent. Great Bunkai.
triplehthemesong 3 years ago
hehe very nice it was fun to watch
007Joakim 3 years ago
very nice ! nice yoko geri and a lot of control on it .
newpainlucifer 3 years ago
nice, love the take downs. Just like to say Bunkai is different for everyone because everyones interpretation of the kata is different. Bunkai is only limited by your imagination and knowledge of martial arts.
Keep up the good work guys
sixyears 3 years ago 2
Very nice. Interesting takedown. I always understood the opening second technique (shortribs punch with other hand to ear) to be a block with a simultaneous punch (a shotokan rarity) After seeing this, I now wonder whether it COULD be a takedown. It is simple, (unlike other youtube bunkai) and does fit there. Sometimes things get lost in translation, but this is very interesting. I am going to bring this up at the dojo. Thank you. All of your techniques look very nice.
njtr 3 years ago
Nicely done.
Massdojo 3 years ago
Um.... I don't get how the takedowns come in to the bunkai? This seems to be a common thing with a lot of people...
Woolfrey 4 years ago
Why not? Takedowns are great at discouraging attackers. A takedown can cause serious damage and give you time to escape.
Hotora86 4 years ago
yeah it is the use of the stance.
jion080981 4 years ago
Master Funakoshi trained with Master Kano in Judo. So it is possible that this could be a takedown. At first, I ALSO thought it was a bit of a stretch, but it does seem to fit here. (who knows?) I understand what you are saying though. I look at some of the bunkai on you tube, and I think that I am looking at ju jitsu. It is very nice to watch, and the people are skilled, but karate is very simple, as it should be. The takedown here seems to fit. I could be wrong.
njtr 3 years ago
@njtr
Funakoshi did not create the kata. So his training with Kano would not change the movement. Okinawan karate had throws prior to its introduction to Japan. Throwing and joint locking art parts of the original Chinese arts which form the basis of karate. However, this is not a particularly logical place for the throw.
ronin752 1 year ago
@ronin752 Thanks for the response. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I guess I didn't make my point clear enough, so I'll clarify. Of course Funakoshi didn't create the kata.They were passed on to him by Itosu & Azato, and he to Nakayama. Than, Funakoshi changed the order of the Pinans, and called them heians. I'm arguing that, although it is understood that Okinawan karate most definitely had throws, Kano may have taught Funakoshi some NEW throws that he added to his personal karate. Osu
njtr 1 year ago
@ronin752 Don't misunderstand me. I can tell by your posts that you are very knowledgeable of kara-te. I simply want to clarify my point. Now, as to one of your points... could you please explain a little bit about ti chi ki? This is the first I've heard of it. I'd like to look into it a little further, but I don't know where to begin. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
njtr 1 year ago
nice
vandelayindust 4 years ago
ive seen bunkai for that using a bo. interesting
brodieboy143 4 years ago
@brodieboy143
Really? Could you give me a link for that?
SheguftaHasnine 1 year ago
never seen it done like that before, will try that at dojo.
tabascojazz 4 years ago
cagata
wikerness1 4 years ago
nice
cafardothefirst 4 years ago
EXCELENT!! CONGRATULATION!!!
Goofy46 4 years ago
Cool bunkai.
pgong 4 years ago