Chris Thile - Michael Lawrence Films Bach Project

[tasdvl9]

That dude from "Twilight" sure can play lol!

[sosome57]

"... all of the folk guys now ... are all playin' a little bit of Bach." Play more. Please.

[paolitas7]

un sonido hermoso bastante armonia

[bestscps]

There's just one thing I don't get:

Why isn't he able to pronounce "Bach" correctly? Considering all the time he spends playing his music, why doesn't he bother learning to pronounce the name of his 'hero'?

No offense. I'm just wondering. :/

[ConcertoInEminor]

It's the American pronunciation; not everyone will pronounce Bach with the guttural"ch".

[bestscps]

It's still wrong. :/

"Bach" isn't only a surname but it's also a German word (brook should be the English equivalent) and in this case there's absolutely no reason to pronounce "ch" as "k".

[ConcertoInEminor]

I'm aware of it's German pronunciation, but not everyone is familiar with German phonetics. Maybe he can't pronounce the "ch". I mean I can relate, it bugs me when people say "Mo-zart" instead of "MoaTS-art", but it doesn't make me think they hold the composer with any less regard.

It seems like you're insinuating that Thile respects Bach less than you do, simply because of his pronunciation of "Bach".

PS: I've studied German for 6 years. :]

[bestscps]

I don't think this is a good comparison, since "Mo-zart" is the correct German pronounciaton. So imho there's nothing wrong with this.

Nope, I'm surely not saying I'm respecting Bach more than he does. It's no great achievement to pronounce his name correctly, cause I'm German. ;)

The thing I'm saying is:

If a German can't pronounce the English "th", no one will take him seriously. But the other way around, German phonetics aren't necessary if you pronounce a German word? That's weird.

[ConcertoInEminor]

Regardless, "Mo-zart" is incorrect; the English z isn't the same as the German one, I'm sure you're well aware.

And I've had plenty of professors that have heavy accents (be it Indian, German, or Russian) that I think very highly of.

Eitherway, I think we can both agree that Bach is freaking awesome. He's the reason I wanted to study in Germany.

[ukulelebailey]

Get a life.

[ukulelebailey]

Maybe he was too busy trying to learn to play the man's music.

[TaterGumfries]

@bestscps You expect Americans to pronounce foreign words correctly. The British intentionally mispronounce foreign words. Pretend he's half British and give him a break.

[YoungFredrick43]

I went to his show at the ryman. It was the best performance I have seen in a long time.

[wcbroccoli]

FROM YOUR FRIEND GORDOIRE:

"Wow, for a bunch of people who clearly consider themselves well-informed when it comes to music, it's amusing none of you can recognize a mandolin.

Say it with me: Man-Do-Lin. That wasn't so hard, was it? "

[gordoire]

Already posted that Broccoli, in response to your idiotic failure to identify a mandolin. While it's an amusing rhetorical device to take another's comments out of context, in this case you simply re-post my criticism of you. Thanks!!

[wcbroccoli]

Since you said "bunch of people", your criticism was surely directed at others.

And I actually did identify Thile's instrument as a "bastardized version of mandolin". But even if I had "failed" to do so, how would that be an "idiotic failure"?

Even though Thile is playing a so-called mandolin, he himself says "that's like a "banjo" goin'..." instead of "that's like a mandolin goin'..."

Thanks!!

And best of luck!!

[gordoire]

WCBROCCOLI, I'm pretty sure the only thing you play is the SKIN FLUTE. Regardless of how adept you may be at your instrument of choice: Capo carefully. You don't want to ruin your teeth!

Anytime!

[wcbroccoli]

GORDOIRE, are you really 32 years old? I'm sure your kind of crude, sarcastic humor is very appealing to 6th graders.

[kidsinsuits]

I'm curious, do you consider what you call the bastardized mandolin to be somehow "less than" a historical mandolin? An instrument of less worth? Or does it just bother you that people have labeled what Chris Thile plays a mandolin when it is really quite different from its origins?

[hyaenidae]

You can say the same thing about any of the classical instruments. Look at guitar, as an extreme example.

[gordoire]

FROM OUR FRIEND WCBROCCOLI:

I like to think Thile deliberately says "banjo" because he wants to compare the refined sound of the Bach violin bariolage passage to a passage of low down, idiomatic Appalachian white trash banjo playing, the banjo itself being on one of the lowest of low instruments, the instrument of African slaves in America.

[gordoire]

Wow, for a bunch of people who clearly consider themselves well-informed when it comes to music, it's amusing none of you can recognize a mandolin.

Say it with me: Man-Do-Lin. That wasn't so hard, was it?

[annandmurph]

Very nice!

Hhhmmm, let's see. Who actually sounds precocious and uninformed about music? Not Chris, that's for sure. Oh, and before you criticize you should try to actually hear what he's saying.. it's not 'fiddle tuning', 'it's fiddle tuney". Big difference, and you if you new more about fiddle tunes you would realize it does sound quite similar.

[wcbroccoli]

Spare us your adolescent sarcasm.

And look up "precocious" before you misuse it again.

Whether Thile said the Bach bariolage passage he played was "fiddle tuning" or "fiddle tuney", it was neither.

Only people who can't discriminate between quality violin music and the music of common fiddlers would say the Bach passage and country fiddling "sound quite similar."

The two have nothing more common than technique.

[koreankayagum]

If you can't appreciate top-flight bluegrass musicians going for broke on an instrumental piece, then you are NOT a musician. I don't care how many years you've played or studied. Those guys are sublime virtuosos-PERIOD. MIght I recommend some Jerry Douglas, Tony Rice, Bela Fleck, or Mark O'Connor?

[wcbroccoli]

I'm sure they are all very good at what they do.

I will accept that on faith alone.

[koreankayagum]

"I will accept that on faith alone."

God, what arrogance. "I'm too good to go check out some bluegrass." People with limited vision (such as yourself) should perhaps be banned from playing music.

[koreankayagum]

Moreover, what does it matter if Bach did or didn't compose anything for the mandolin? My point was that he probably wouldn't have cared if any of his pieces were arranged for the instrument.

[wcbroccoli]

Arranging is common is all eras, not just the Baroque. The fact that arranging was done doesn't prove that the original composer would have liked the it. Would Bach have minded his music being arranged for kazoo? Did he like all instruments equally? I doubt it.

There were no banjos in Bach's Europe.

Although many Baroque composers did write for mandolin (the closest thing they had to a banjo) Bach was not one of them. If we wasn't writing for mandolin, why do you presume he'd like banjo?

[koreankayagum]

Hey, wild man, try these videos on for size.

Type in "Fisher's Hornpipe - Mike Marshall & Chris Thile", "Ode To A Butterfly - Chris Thile", "Waltz for Dewayne Pomeroy - Chris Thile", "Carpathian Mt. Breakdown - Mike Marshall & Chris Thile", and "Bach's Goldberg Variations - Mike Marshall & Chris Thile."

I think you'll quickly realize that Mr. Thile is one of the greatest virtuosos in the history of his chosen instrument.

[wcbroccoli]

Maybe you should circulate a petition.

[stefenhainbuch]

"...between quality violin music and the music of common fiddlers"

This excerpt from an earlier posting of yours sums up your idiocy and arrogance.

There is no "better" or "worse" in music; there is only difference. "Oh yes, the rarefied world of classical music. It's so special and so above the music of those common peasants." Jeez, what a jackass you are.

By the way, the original posting was about Bach on the mandolin, not the banjo.

[wcbroccoli]

You're entitled a strong opinion, even if it's utter nonsense.

For if, as you triumphantly declare, there is no "better" or "worse" in music, then how do you account for such widely accepted cultural concepts as "musical masterpieces"and "great composers"? The very existence of these terms implies that some music is considered "better", some "worse".

Isn't Chris Thile a "better" mandolin player than some? Are not some mandolin players "worse"?

[mandopickerer]

Really, that's not the point. Yes, music can be better or worse, but when you picked up your instrument and played your first song, how would you feel if someone walked up and said "your playing is 'worse' than anything I've ever heard"? You can't go around saying "that guy's playing is worse than anything I've ever heard" That discourages people, and who knows, the next person you discourage could have been the next Chris Thile.

[wcbroccoli]

That was not my intent.

I was merely rebutting the claim that 'There is no "better" or "worse" in music; there is only difference.'

The democratic notion that all in music

is created equal is contradicted by the fact that only some, but not all, works of music are widely regarded as "masterpieces" and only some, but not all, composers and players are widely regarded as "masters".

[YoungFredrick43]

I think wcbroccoli and jschubart base there opinion of the banjo off of old Beverly Hillbillys episodes. They should listen to Béla Fleck he plays a more intelligent style banjo.

[daafactor929]

oh right wcbroccoli.. i am sure you know more about music than Chris thile.. that makes sense.. ya sure

[jschubart]

You're 26 years old, yet you express yourself in the sarcastic vernacular of an adolescent who thinks he knows it all.

Maybe Thile knows a thing or two about banjo twangin'.

But does that make him an authortity on music in general or Bach in particular?

And why do you presume Thile knows more about music than wcbroccoli? You know nothing about his musical training or experience.

[jschubart]

Around 0:47 Thile begins a ludicrous comparison between a bariolage passage ("it's fiddle tuning...all this... uh...that kind of thing...") from the Prelude and his example of "a banjo goin'..." .

He incorrectly refers to bariolage as "fiddle tuning".

You don't have to know much about music to hear that the violin bariolage ("that kinda thing") doesn't sound much "like a banjo goin'..".

It make me nauseous to hear that bariolage passage compared to idiomatic banjo twangin'.

[goopy630]

The great thing about Bach is it can be interpreted in many ways.

Yes this isn't the most conventional way, but Chris Thile is by all means not conventional.

It is however very interesting to hear a new take on Bach, which is how we progress music.

[wcbroccoli]

My previous comments were not about interpretation.

How is playing Bach on banjo a new take

on Bach?

And how is playing Bach on banjo progress in music?

And what IS "progress in music"?

Should we compare the works of Mozart to the works of Stravinsky as we would compare the invention of Watt's steam engine to the invention of the gas turbine?

Is that what music has been doing for the last 800 years? Progressing? Getting "bettah all the time"?

[goopy630]

Bach on banjo is a new take because it's not something done very often, thus it can lead to people interpreting how they play it in the future.

For example, yo-yo ma said in an interview after playing with Mark O'Connor and Edgar Meyer that really changed how he played and approached Bach. Someone could see these films and have the same reaction/response.

As far as music progressing, we shouldn't compare, or say it's getting better. By progressing I merely mean it's changing or advancing.

[gordoire]

Idiot, before you start criticizing the work, you might want to actually be able to identify the instrument Thile is playing. You'd still sound like a pretentious boob, but a slightly less poorly informed one.

[wcbroccoli]

There are different "conventional" ways of playing ("interpreting") Bach.

Some are historically informed.

Some are well meaning but clueless, e.g., a 21st c. symphony orchestra cluelessly playing 18th c. music on 19th c. instruments (except for a token harpsichord).

Whose convention? Historically informed,

or well-meaning but clueless?

The only thing unconventional about Chris Thile's bariolage passage from Bach's Prelude was that he played it on banjo.

[goopy630]

Please don't tell me you think that's a banjo?

[wcbroccoli]

Judging from the 4 pairs of strings, it looks like a bastardized version of a mandolin, except for the uncharacteristic body shape and soundholes.

[mandolin12348]

thats not bastardized, thats how they've been making mandolins for almost 100 years

[wcbroccoli]

Perhaps that's true of some so-called "mandolins" made in the U.S. But those instruments have carved top/back design inspired by the violin vs the traditional European bowlback design derived from the lute.

And mandolins have been around a lot longer than 100 years.

Over 250 yrs. ago Vivaldi was writing mandolin concertos for a small bowlback wide and shallow bodied mandolin with 5-6 courses (not 4) and tuned by 4ths and 3rds like a lute (not 5ths like a violin).

[mandopickerer]

So if you don't think this is what a mandolin should look like, then explain to me what one should look like. I have five setting in my room right now, and they all look like Thile's and they are called mandolins.

[wcbroccoli]

No doubt you have the latest electronic mandolins, just like the ones Vivaldi had in mind for his mandolin concertos.

Google "six course Baroque mandolin" to see a real mandolin.

Note the flat top and circular sound hole.

Real mandolins are designed like a lute.

The top of Thile's mandolin is carved like the top of a violin. That type of mandolin desgn popped up about 100 years ago.

But the manufacturer called it a "mandolin" & the buyers didn't know any better.

[mrtmat]

You have just noted, in your own comment that this is indeed a Mandolin,  it just happens to be a different design. You would be delighted to know that there are violins with non-traditional sound holes and body shapes, and even with 5 strings, that are still violins.

[wcbroccoli]

Not quite. I said it appears to be a bastardized version of a mandolin. (Bastardized = modified by introducing discordant/disparate elements).

Rock musicians play bastardized versions of guitars & organs

that are guitar & organs only in the imaginations of those who believe it.

There are authentic (=historically accurate) cellos /w 5 strings, viols /w 5,6 or 7 strings, and mandolins /w 3, 4, 5 or even 6 courses. But none of these are bastardizations of 19th-21st c. pop culture.

[mrtmat]

I am happy to report, that the viol is just a bastardized lute and that the baroque organ is just a bastardized portative organ.

[wcbroccoli]

And I am happy to report that unlike the bastardized instrument that the manufacturer calls "mandolin", despite the dramatic differences of look and design compared to authentic mandolins, no one calls a viol a lute or confuses one with the other.

And no confuses a Baroque organ with a portative ("portable") or plays organ music /w pedal parts on a portative.

[mandopickerer]

Actually I only have two electric mandolins. I have a 1920's, 1930's Martin mandolin. It has an arched top and a circular sound hole. Is that what your saying a real mandolin is? Not trying to be rude or anything, but if you do know more than everyone else on here, than why are you even arguing with all these people? People have opinions, but that doesn't mean their all right. Point being, why would you even bother trying to get any kind of point through if no one is going to listen?

[wcbroccoli]

The "real" mandolin I have in mind has flat

tops (like a lute) instead of the curved top (inspired by the violin top) that appeared about 100 years ago. Not sure if your

"arched top" means the same as my "curved top."

Someone must be "listening" or else

I wouldn't be getting replies to my comments. Most of my comments are simply replies to other comments.

But I'm not on a mission to change minds that were obviously made up before I ever posted.

[gordoire]

Your claim that Bach's bariolage (or any bariolage) doesn't resemble the sound produced by a banjo reveals your ignorance; A banjo is played by repeatedly plucking a (static) drone note while playing an independent melody above or below that note. This is the very definition of a bariolage, be it on a violin, mandolin, etc. Your snobbery will be easier to pull off if you at least bother to be an informed critic. Best of luck!

[wcbroccoli]

I've played violin and classical guitar, so you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

Your reading comprehension is poor if you think my comments were about technique.

I wasn't comparing the technique of violin bariolage to the technique of Thile's example of "it's like a banjo goin'..."

I was comparing the beauty of the Bach bariolage passage Thile played

to the ugliness of the idiomatic "banjo"

pickin' he subsequently played for comparision.

[mandolin12348]

the banjo is not ugly, you are a queer

[wcbroccoli]

I didn't say the banjo is ugly.

I was talking about the ugliness of the characteristic Appalachian white trash "banjo" pickin' that Thile demonstrated after he said "that's like a banjo goin'..."

[mandolin12348]

that wasnt a white trash song that was ode to a butterfly listen to it

[wcbroccoli]

I didn't say it was a "white trash" song.

I was alluding to the origins of banjo idiom, the idiom reflected in the passage he played.

[gordoire]

Your comments relating to Thile's comparison of a bariolage in a fiddle tune to that found in Bach's passage are understood; your questionable taste is offended. While it's your decision to rationalize your limited ability to appreciate music of unique and distinct genre's in whatever way you see fit, insulting an instrument (the banjo) by way of denigrating those who've played it ("appalachian white trash","african slaves") draws into question much more serious things than your views on music.

[koreankayagum]

Well, sir, I'm sure Bach wouldn't have minded his music being played on the banjo since it was common practice in the Baroque era to arrange pieces for any number of combination of instruments. As far as "ugliness" goes, check out a harpsichord for some of the most annoying sounds known to man. THAT is one hell of an irritating instrument which, thank god, was supplanted by the pianoforte.

[wcbroccoli]

Well, m'am, while many Baroque composers wrote pieces for mandolin, which was perhaps the closest thing in Bach's Europe to a banjo, Bach did not write any mandolin music.

As far as "ugliness" goes, I wasn't talking about the sound of the banjo. I was talking about the sound of the Appalachian banjo idiom.

[wcbroccoli]

I don't have to have a Ph.D. in music to know that the beautiful bariolage passage from Bach's Prelude that Thile plays around 0:50 is NOT "fiddle tuning", as he naively calls it, and NOT at all like the idiomatic (and hideous) hootchie kootchie banjo twangin' example he plays at 1:00.

[wcbroccoli]

He's cute.

But "it's fiddle tuning, all this ah,,,,that kinda thing...that's like a banjo goin'...."

No.

Bach's praeludium doesn't sound anything like hootchie koochtie banjo twangin.

In their pop culture addicted minds, they *imagine* they're playing Bach.

[codeman2008]

I can't help but disagree. The 'hootchie koochtie banjo twangin', or as you so call it, is just as musical and just as great as music of the baroque period, it's just a matter of taste and the will to understand. I can enjoy 'banjo twangin' as much as Bach because it is just the same, music is music, I'll always think Bach is the greatest, but all music is great, and we can't just pick and choose, we can't be classical snobs or baroque snobs or whatever one wants to call it.

[anzbanz]

Does anyone know if there is just gonna be a recording of this that i can buy? Cause this rocks.

[Zerjio]

wow... talented AND has a very sexy profile, too. me likey :D

[dmben89]

I am having the worst brain fart....what piece is this by Bach?

[bobfresco]

partita 3 - prelude in e maj I believe. (bmv 1006)

[PointlessClips]

he's AMAZING not gonna lie

looks like a hobo though...like a total drunk

haha love him

[harrisoncrabfeathers]

Fleck put out Perpetual Motion. Thile'll do a Bach album:) He's said it.

[thedom1005]

He has an album with Edgar Meyer coming out in a couple of months. Looks like you may have got your wish, nonirish!

[nonirish]

In spirit, it's already bought. :]

[nonirish]

I hope he gets the approval and funding to put out a Bach on the mandolin album. The problem is, I don't think it would serve the establishment. Crossover only ventures so far. Most of the Bach freaks are not along the bluegrass lines, even though many of Bach's pieces are essentially built around dances. I hope Chris Thile uses his pull and puts out such an album.

[DEADHAWK076]

But, Many of the bach stuff was written for Lute, which is the medieval guitar. Lute-to-Mandolin transcriptions wouldn't be too far out there

Plus, my grandmother is an old, set-in-her ways Bach enthusiast who doesn't really accept unconventional stuff. I played this for her and she thought it was absolutely gorgeous.

[kungfufortcollins]

Cool vid. I LOVE Thile. Wish it were longer. Still..Five stars.

[MacMic333]

Well sick man! Check Julian Bream for emotional content.Bach IS king.

[p0lyph0ny]

I seriously can't wait for this movie! It looks like it will be wonderful.

[piratebob13]

Brilliant...Wonderful...I want to see more....