PRR T1 Duplex #5505 at Horseshoe Curve (1949)

[Petemonster62]

The T-1 looks fast, even when it is standing still. I wonder if the designer was a fan of Buick automobiles since he put those 3 " port holes " on the sides of the steam chest?

[Showgirl7able]

So awesome looking and sooooo big. If I was rich I'd recreate them for everyone!

[gattosub]

The T-1 was the cutting edge of the latest at the time development. Given more time and a chance to work out the bugs, we might still have seen steam working along side diesels today.

[robertgift]

@gattosub No. Steam is too inefficient and too labor intensive.

Ugly design.

Who are the morons that did not save any?

[cektito87]

@HaloCE14

I Live in Italy and this is a common problem... :-(

[nev594]

I have said excactly the same and I totally agree with you. These iconic streamllined locomotives and none saved. The Pennsy K-4, S-1, T-1, NYC no Hudsons saved - what a sin. The Mercury, Empire State Express, The Hiawathas and CNW streamlined Hudsons the list is long and sad :(

[cektito87]

@HaloCE14

I Know... :-(

The Streamlined Hudsons...wonderful!

[cektito87]

One of the most beautiful and advanced steam locomotives of all time ... and no one was saved! :'(

[generationll]

What a majestic looking steam locomotive

[jppicur]

You included tender weights. Locomotive alone, the production T-1 was 502,200# with 279,900# on drivers. That's an average driving axle load of 35 tons - pretty heavy! In checking weight stats, I found five classes of 4-8-4s that outweighed the T-1. These were the ATSF '2900', C&O J-3, NP A-4 & A-5 and WM J-1. The UP locos were lighter. The heaviest, the ATSF '2900', weighed in at 510,700 with 295K on drivers. I accept the T-1 was not heavier than the heaviest 4-8-4s, but it was close.

[jppicur]

Contrary to the PRRH&TS apologists, the T1 was an economic and mechanical failure. Its slippage problems were due to design flaws, as determined by ASME. The duplex concept was a failure everywhere it was tried. Whether its inherent problems might eventually have been worked out, we'll never know. It was also an overly heavy beast, and no railroad would allow it on their tracks today -- especially as a coal burner. The poppet valves were also a big maintenance headache.

[deloreanman14]

@jppicur - The T1 was not that much heavier than 4-8-4s being manufactured around that time. The T1 tipped the scales at 944,700 pounds where as the 844 (a traditional 4-8-4) weighs in at 907,890 pounds...both figures are fully loaded with fuel and water.

[jonnyk5614]

OK, 15mph faster than Malard but to look at......

[bigboytrain1]

VERY COOL, PRR T1 is best of design.

[gattosub]

The T1 were the cutting edge of a new era of steam locomotion, only to fall victum to the economics of the diesel. Little could it be seen that by throwing in tottally to diesels and their commitment to oil that they had indeed made a deal with the devil. Oh if only we could bring them back.

[kickflip1234100]

The sharks of the PRR...

[LycoValleyRRFan]

Almost sounds like an ALCO.

[tprdfh51]

@LycoValleyRRFan it does sound like an Alco...and I ran M630/M636's for CPR and that is what they sound like on a cold winter night!

[STEAMRAILWAYSHOP]

Great to see these streamlined giants!

[superscorpiontal]

great ,shot of those ti duplex loco,s its shame the diesels ousted these magnificent machines scorpiontail united kingdom

[sonstwer01]

Great pictures and sound of an extraordinary engine.

Thanks!

[nclemens]

Please, some millioniare out there - fund a project to build a PRR T1 from scratch (like they did in England).

[deloreanman14]

@nclemens - I already made up my mind....if I ever make it filthy rich, I'm building one of these.

[intercityrailpal]

@deloreanman14 I agree! But you know, the British and the Germans have built brand new steam loco's just in the past few years. Perhaps you don"t have to be filthy rich at all. But do what Wall Street does,they use OPM..Other People's Money! That's what the Pennsy did. If someone did this, I know I'd buy some shares too. And we're NOT alone!

[deloreanman14]

@intercityrailpal - I believe it is more than possible. A friend of mine says that casting a frame that size can still be accomplished but as it's a one-off, the cost would be extreme. You'd also have to consider whether you wanted to keep the Poppet valves (I say yes) and where to build and store the damn thing...all 123 feet of it.

If the interest is there, I wouldn't object to founding the T1 Trust. :-)

[nclemens]

One of the fastest, if not THE fastest steam locomotives ever built. It's a shame that Pennsy shirked any kind of record-setting; the T1 would have shattered the Mallard's record.

[hcrun]

@nclemens

The fastest speed (~ 126mph) set by a steam locomotive still stands at that done by the LNER "Mallard" back in 1938.

[TandemDawgBMG]

@hcrun yeah but that's only cause this thing never actually got officially recorded at about 140-145mph

[hcrun]

@TandemDawgBMG

Tough!

It's the official recordings that count - in anything. (Otherwise there'd be an awful lot of really huge fish! :) )

[KittyRokher]

Hot damn this thing is sexy. Steam engines were, are, and always will be ten thousand times better looking than any diesel.

[JuanManuelGrijalvo]

My favorite steam engine. Admittedly, not a COMPLETE success, but... "Well, nobody's perfect! ": A VERY beautiful locomotive.

[ACLTony]

A shame that these weren't preserved. Ironically, inspite of some of their problems, including traction, the T-1 was one of the best balanced large steamers ever produced.  Did not "pound" the rails like most of the other large steamers in existence.

[rboffill]

@ACLTony True but that Pro was also its con, there wasnt enough weight on thewheels to prevent slipping and thus slipping was very common.

[Msts196]

@rboffill That my friend, is false. The engineers weren't properly trained to run these locomotives.

[rboffill]

@Msts196 True also but the T1s did have their fair share of problems like traction and wheel slip and maintaince was a nightmare.

[deloreanman14]

@rboffill - You have to remember, the Pennsy's engineers were used to running the K4s Pacifics and other smaller locomotives. They simply weren't used to these giant brutes and the power they had to offer and because of that, they treated them just like the Pacifics. I like to compare it to jumping into a Corvette after driving a 1990 Toyota Corolla for years. The C&O borrowed a T1 and reported no issues with traction or slipping, even when starting on grades.

[rboffill]

@deloreanman14 Hmm. i guess so. But the Prr also had no flaws with other giants like the Q2. Also aside from the fact that they were installed with anti-slip mechanisms. The Q1 was a disaster. But another good example of fine engineering with a "Brute would be the Pennsy's J1 borrowed form the C&O. These engineers were as you say not properly trained. But you also have to reason with the fact that Pennsy is full of mountains, and its slopes are Blahhh. Its Badcompared to the plains in Ohio.

[nicholasbreeden]

@rboffill I read a post from the pennsy hitorical society that said the engineers running the T1's were not trained adequately to the technology, and power, and that is why the wheel slip issue.

[apostleverde]

Fantastic vid and recording! Thanks immensely for sharing this! 5 stars!

[Jared1452]

My pap matained PRR K$'s, I think he said he worked on the 1361 once back in the late 40's after he got back from the war. He also worked on the T-1's, and J1A's. He worked on EMD E-8's and AClco PA-1's. He said the T-1 was a VERY complicated design, it was a bitch to matian and clean, thats probably why none were perserved.

[uberkelvin]

The T1 is a beautiful machine - shame it got scrapped :'(

[lugeman221]

@uberkelvin i find it beautiful as well but the fact is they were just too high maintenance

[intercityrailpal]

@uberkelvin I don"t know who sat on the board of directors of the Pennsy at the time the diesels were purchased. But some of the railroads even today have people from the auto-DIESEL- truck people on their board. And of course oil companys. Gee, I wonder why the steam engines and passenger trains disappeared? Railroads are to be TAXED! The tax money to be used to build highways and airports. Track is to be ripped up like the Pennsy's Saint Louis Mainline. Stations replaced by gas stations.

[420glass]

Nice job my Pappap had this record and played it for me when I was a young PUP

[osdotf]

Lived about a half block from the Pennsy in Van Wert, OH until 1948 and had plenty of chances to see Crestline's big iron haul the PRR varnish. I was always bugging my dad to take me to Grandpa's warehouse on the Town Creek curve so I could see the mail car snag the mail sack and kick out the incoming. They really turned the T1's loose west of town where they reached "the Ft. Wayne Racecourse."

[tprdfh51]

They were a beautiful design to look at!

[TheDarkPhoenix23]

No T1's survived sadly. This is actually my second favorite train with the first being the PRR S1 which is what the T1's running gear was based off of and "improved"

[Ponz67]

I just recently found out some informtion about the first T1 shown. Apparently the PRR experimented with two T1s; one remaind a T1 but was given Franklin rotary cam poppet valves instead of the usual poppets, the other was renamed, the T1a and it had Walschaerts,(as shown) the change came to little; too late for the Duplex, who knows maby they were planing to articulate one?

[KilleTheHedgehog8492]

the T1 is a lovly locomotive compared to the big boy..IDK...

[Politcalamity]

The very first photo in this video is of a one of a kind T1, where the PRR actually removed the poppet valves and installed Walschaerts valve gear.

Of all the T1s built, if this one had survived, it would have been the most practical candidate for restoration. I wonder how much better that machine was on maintenance than its poppet valve brother and sisters.

[KilleTheHedgehog8492]

are thease trains presirved?

[tprdfh51]

Sounds a lot like a Alco M630/636 on a cold winter night!

[boazrg]

The first photograph is unusual because it shows the only T-1 modified with walschaerts valve gear. I don't know much about this modified T-1, and I don't know if eliminating the poppet valves would have solved the T-1's problems.

[Moskito012]

Hi,

I doubt it.

The problem with the T1 was much more the time setting. The 50 serial 5500's were delivered in 1945/1946, but in 1948 PRR began losing money because of passenger traffic going down and coal becoming expensive after coal strikes.

As Pennsy quickly dieselized, of course they began with the top-trains (the T1 ones). The so rugged K-4s only lived 2 or 3 years longer. Of course, part of the blame goes to PRR crews unwilling to "poppet valve" their loco habits.

[ThatYankeeKid]

What do you mean by "poppet valve" their habits?

[Moskito012]

@ThatYankeeKid:

Shop personnel unsually aren't too fond of learning new things, especially if this means crawling into dirty corners in the frame (poppet valve gear box) , where they don't have to go with the old K4s, as with the Walschaerts all the gynecology lies open to the viever. So the T1s weren't really the shop crews' darlings. The serial T1s were still brand new (pics 0.26ff.) when they got a new front shield for better accessability of the pumps. (e.g.first 4 pics).

[tprdfh51]

Damn lazy shop staff! LOL

[Moskito012]

@ThatYankeeKid ,

they should have been trained better to take care of the poppet velve boxes - but these were sitting in quiet remote places beneath the frames. No wonder the crews preferred the classes with easier accessible parts. On a K-4, you could get "anywhere" from the outside.

[CarNutandTrainNut2]

Almost sounds like a General Electric U Boat.

[altoonaPArailfan]

nice video. how do you put a photo with your profile cause i have some nice altoona train photos?

[hudson501]

This apparent wire recording of a T-1 seems to be the only one known of this unique locomotive. At least it didn't slip a set of its drivers (which the T-1's were notorious for doing) while passing during this recording!

[ThatYankeeKid]

Wow, interesting. I didn't know they used the T-1's in this kind of service. The poppet valves also give it a very distinct sound. The exhaust beats seem much more consistent and precisely timed than with conventional valve gear. Towards the end, it almost sounded like a GE U-boat because of the sound of the chuffs. 5/5.

[railfan101]

It's nice to hear the duplex working Horseshoe Curve!