An amazing movie, especially with the inclusion of the Japanese battle formations. The Fourth Showdown at Kawanakajima was a bloody fight to the last. Two master strategist clashing in what would be considered the greatest battle until The Massacre at Nagashino., or Oda Nobunaga's victory at Okezahama. This movie is brilliant as is the music of the film!
The 4th battle of Kawanakajima, still debatable of who won that battle that day. Shingen the Tiger of Kai lost two of his best general while Uesegi dragon of Echigo lost more than half of his troops.
That battle is still studied in military academy, how to counter attack an ambush and then later on how to reorganize after a failed ambush.
Yes, it was a "draw", even if technically Shingen "won" by army numbers that day, it was still a pyrrhic victory for him as he lost his brother Nobushige, a quite capable warrior, and his trusted advisor Yamamoto (if he didn't die I guess he would have stopped Katsuyori foolish attack in Nagashino).
@hanchiman Nobushige was his second in command if I remember so only that lost make victory a pyrrhic victory and he lost his best strategist too so that was like defeat.
But yeah by outcome this was a draw or Shingen win beceause he was ambushed and survive so he defeat the Kenshin.
I think that's the reason they never meet again on the battlefield, they knew they can't defeat eachother.
The 5th Kawanakajima was probably the last time they fought, although this time in a more careful and slower pace (after all 4th still spook them). Anyways I think because of this Kawanakajima campaign they created some sort of "mutual" respect to each other. After all Kenshin wept when he heard of Shingen death.
The sad part is, even if they allied, they would sooner or later fight against each other, because both of them have the same goal in uniting Japan.
A Chinese proverb is that "One mountain can never contain two tigers" and knowing that Shingen is a Sinophile, I think he heard of that phrase and understood what it means.
Some argue that if Shingen didn't die from illness, he would have conquered Japan by defeating Oda and Ieyasu singlehandled.
@hanchiman What you said is very interesting. How will you indeed will YOU reorganize a failed ambush? Judging by the size of the armies from both sides, it must be difficult. But these Daimyos are no joke. They always have Plan B. They must've thought about how to rally all their troops when a fail ambush is executed.
@hanchiman That's peculiar. Tsun Zu was a chinese military strategiest and a General? How was he able to verse the two, if not, the most famous Daimyos of the Sengoku Jidai? All I know is that they traded with the Chinese and the Koreans. But this... I also remembered that Tsun Zu disappeared after winning numerous battles. Agghh... I don't know! This is just too fascinating for me. I use to have the book "The Art of War". I just can't find it. It was a good version. With details.
Actually "Sun Tzu" is debated if "he" was even a real actual person, some say Sun Tzu is a collection of the family Sun who is famous of generation of strategist that collected all their knowledge about War in a single book. Sun Bin is probably more known as a person in the Sun family.
Also, Japan traded with China and Korea alot, (with the Portugese and Dutch as middlemen) thats how they got their arquebuise rifle.
Shingens Fuurinkazaan flag is based on Sun Tzu phrase.
@hanchiman We need to start a forum. Since it seems like we have fascination about the Samurai. This is a very good discussion. Takeda Shingen became my favorite after finding out how good of a strategist he is. He is clever. Also Uesugi Kenshin. I've been looking for a book regarding this topic.
Actually I started to like Shingen after Kurosawas "Kagemusha" and Nobunaga Ambition series thats where I started to get interested in the "Senguko jidai" era.
Other interesting East Asian conflict is the Taiping Rebellion, Warring State of China (where the Sengoku Daiymos studied that history), Genpei War, Founding of Tang dynasty and Warlord Era of China. It's a shame that these history is just a footnote in European textbook back when I was in school.
Wikipedia, but I recommend Stephen Turnbulls and his book series about "Samurai", he can be a bit of bias towards the Japanese in some of his books especially about the "Invasion of Korea".
I think this movie has been run on cable with an English soundtrack narration by actor Stuart Whitman. I can't find that version anywhere but there is a remastered DVD available out there with Eng subs.
He didn't say warrior. One good fighter alone is great, but you're not dealing with individuals, you're dealing with armies. A single great strategist will make more difference in a situation like that, than a single great fighter could ever hope to. Not to say those two had no idea of strategy, but they are mostly known for their time behind a spear, rather than commanding an army.
I fell in love with this movie when i 1st saw it, this and RAN.
Great Japanese Cinema!
IntoxicateDead 1 week ago
Saw this years ago, beautiful cinematography and story. Beautiful.
CIVIC170 2 months ago
Thought I'd lost this movie. Took me a while just to find this even. Where could I get the DVD? Its not even available through Netflix.
conversestar121213 6 months ago
Where can I buy this with eng subs? Darn! I am a HUGE fan of The Samurai. That's why I've been playing Shogun 2, non-stop!!!
merts487 6 months ago
samurai were passionate even when killing a man of higher rank
NYhope07 10 months ago
Nice choice on Moonraker soundtrack. Very beautiful in its own right, but nicely chosen here, for sure.
eromacque 11 months ago
An amazing movie, especially with the inclusion of the Japanese battle formations. The Fourth Showdown at Kawanakajima was a bloody fight to the last. Two master strategist clashing in what would be considered the greatest battle until The Massacre at Nagashino., or Oda Nobunaga's victory at Okezahama. This movie is brilliant as is the music of the film!
Emokadaj 1 year ago
where i can find it? :S
william91pr 1 year ago
it was great reading in college
tommy1976ify 1 year ago
All that ceromony to get a piece of mail....
wordsofwisdom2009 1 year ago
does anyone know where i can get this on DVD?
AlexanderMahan 1 year ago
The 4th battle of Kawanakajima, still debatable of who won that battle that day. Shingen the Tiger of Kai lost two of his best general while Uesegi dragon of Echigo lost more than half of his troops.
That battle is still studied in military academy, how to counter attack an ambush and then later on how to reorganize after a failed ambush.
hanchiman 1 year ago 5
@hanchiman As i heared it was draw and you just said why.
maciejl20 10 months ago
@maciejl20
Yes, it was a "draw", even if technically Shingen "won" by army numbers that day, it was still a pyrrhic victory for him as he lost his brother Nobushige, a quite capable warrior, and his trusted advisor Yamamoto (if he didn't die I guess he would have stopped Katsuyori foolish attack in Nagashino).
hanchiman 10 months ago
@hanchiman Nobushige was his second in command if I remember so only that lost make victory a pyrrhic victory and he lost his best strategist too so that was like defeat.
But yeah by outcome this was a draw or Shingen win beceause he was ambushed and survive so he defeat the Kenshin.
I think that's the reason they never meet again on the battlefield, they knew they can't defeat eachother.
maciejl20 10 months ago
@maciejl20
The 5th Kawanakajima was probably the last time they fought, although this time in a more careful and slower pace (after all 4th still spook them). Anyways I think because of this Kawanakajima campaign they created some sort of "mutual" respect to each other. After all Kenshin wept when he heard of Shingen death.
hanchiman 10 months ago
@hanchiman
This is exactly what I mean.
They had a lot of respect to each other and it is very sad they never combine their forces and act as one beceause they will be unstoppable.
If Nobunaga with Ieyasu has a lot trouble with Shingen alone, they will have no chance agaist combine power of Kenshin and Shingen.
maciejl20 10 months ago
@maciejl20
The sad part is, even if they allied, they would sooner or later fight against each other, because both of them have the same goal in uniting Japan.
A Chinese proverb is that "One mountain can never contain two tigers" and knowing that Shingen is a Sinophile, I think he heard of that phrase and understood what it means.
Some argue that if Shingen didn't die from illness, he would have conquered Japan by defeating Oda and Ieyasu singlehandled.
hanchiman 10 months ago
@hanchiman
Yes this is true but Oda and Tokugawa had alliance and they knew this isn't alliance for eternity.
Takeda and Uesugi had the same enemy (Oda) so they could be an ally and secure their border.
I'm curious what they can accomplish if they join forces as Tokugawa and Oda did.
Sad I will never have chance to see that.
This is probably true beceause Oda and Tokugawa can't deal with him as long as he lives.
His dead was needed for them to defeat the Takeda.
maciejl20 10 months ago
@hanchiman What you said is very interesting. How will you indeed will YOU reorganize a failed ambush? Judging by the size of the armies from both sides, it must be difficult. But these Daimyos are no joke. They always have Plan B. They must've thought about how to rally all their troops when a fail ambush is executed.
merts487 6 months ago
@merts487
Also considering that it was a time when mobile phones or radio wasn't even invented, so everything must be going "according" to plan.
It was also said that both of these generals are well versed in that Art of War book by the Chinese writer Sun Tzu.
hanchiman 6 months ago
@hanchiman That's peculiar. Tsun Zu was a chinese military strategiest and a General? How was he able to verse the two, if not, the most famous Daimyos of the Sengoku Jidai? All I know is that they traded with the Chinese and the Koreans. But this... I also remembered that Tsun Zu disappeared after winning numerous battles. Agghh... I don't know! This is just too fascinating for me. I use to have the book "The Art of War". I just can't find it. It was a good version. With details.
merts487 6 months ago
@merts487
Actually "Sun Tzu" is debated if "he" was even a real actual person, some say Sun Tzu is a collection of the family Sun who is famous of generation of strategist that collected all their knowledge about War in a single book. Sun Bin is probably more known as a person in the Sun family.
Also, Japan traded with China and Korea alot, (with the Portugese and Dutch as middlemen) thats how they got their arquebuise rifle.
Shingens Fuurinkazaan flag is based on Sun Tzu phrase.
hanchiman 6 months ago
@hanchiman We need to start a forum. Since it seems like we have fascination about the Samurai. This is a very good discussion. Takeda Shingen became my favorite after finding out how good of a strategist he is. He is clever. Also Uesugi Kenshin. I've been looking for a book regarding this topic.
merts487 6 months ago
@merts487
Actually I started to like Shingen after Kurosawas "Kagemusha" and Nobunaga Ambition series thats where I started to get interested in the "Senguko jidai" era.
Other interesting East Asian conflict is the Taiping Rebellion, Warring State of China (where the Sengoku Daiymos studied that history), Genpei War, Founding of Tang dynasty and Warlord Era of China. It's a shame that these history is just a footnote in European textbook back when I was in school.
hanchiman 6 months ago
@hanchiman Where can I find more info about this battle.
wardogmobius 3 months ago
@wardogmobius
Wikipedia, but I recommend Stephen Turnbulls and his book series about "Samurai", he can be a bit of bias towards the Japanese in some of his books especially about the "Invasion of Korea".
hanchiman 3 months ago
haha this is awesome!! My cousin was an extra in this movie, it was filmed in Alberta, Canada!!! Is the film on dvd anywhere?
iampoopman 1 year ago
this music has to be john barry
tommy1976ify 1 year ago
I think this movie has been run on cable with an English soundtrack narration by actor Stuart Whitman. I can't find that version anywhere but there is a remastered DVD available out there with Eng subs.
shulien229 1 year ago
Man I've been looking for this movie FOREVER!!
I watched it on Super Channel as a kid and just couldn't forget it or FIND it!!
Thanks for posting this!!
Hum0ng0us 1 year ago
I agree with GioNToji... this excellent film has unfortunately been practically forgotten.
You may have luck finding it under its original name - "Ten To Chi To"
I love the massive battle formations that are portrayed in this movie. Based on historical events.
tinglerh 1 year ago 4
I saw this in VCR when I was a kid, this movie got me interested in samural stuff.
creepysg 2 years ago
@creepysg you shouldve watch RAN as well great movie
a samurai version of a shakespear story
CAZPERsayz 2 years ago
hey, i've seen this movie on laser disc when i was still a kid!
Couldn't find the movie anywhere today...
I sure would like to have it as collection. Beats The Last Samurai.
GioNToji 2 years ago
The music on this clip is from the Moonraker soundtrack (entitled: "Flight into space")
tinglerh 2 years ago
dis is real confusin
ddilmc1 2 years ago
Movies like this one are not to be wach for FX or whatever... just enjoy the story if your brain can understand it ;)
bmshark 2 years ago
Is this movie about the Uesegi clan?
jonascheah 2 years ago
@bmshark
A brain and enjoyment of immersive effects are not mutually exclusive.
Manonymouse 2 years ago
dang, is this movie still out for sale?? i want to buy this movie
manapuax310 2 years ago
I've never seen this movie available in any format in the US. But they played it on TNT many, many, many years ago.
PrinceofMacedon 2 years ago
Oh, I just noticed, the track isn't from Heaven & Earth... Great music anyways.
WombOfIzanami 2 years ago
It's from James Bond, pretty sure ..Moonraker or You Only Live Twice.. definitely one of the space scenes, so probably Moonraker.
Zalibaba 2 years ago
The soundtrack is awesome... It gives me goosebumps...
WombOfIzanami 2 years ago
I was a PA on the film in AB. Can't find video/CD anywhere but have original soundtrack.
Monkeymaja2 2 years ago
The music on this clip is from the Moonraker soundtrack (entitled: "Flight into space")
- Thank you for the tip, Footmarshian!
tinglerh 3 years ago
Glorious music and glorious scenes
vomitoa 3 years ago
kagetora Nagao (Kenshin Uesugi) is the strongest this Warring States Period general
of the part.
It is thought that he is the strongest even in history of Japan in the war in
Japan.
Genius of war
r196642 3 years ago
I'm sure the greatest warrior was Tadakatsu Honda, what about Yukimura Sanada?
Anyway yeah Kenshin was great though, gonna check this film out, just got to find it first.
Raziun 3 years ago
He didn't say warrior. One good fighter alone is great, but you're not dealing with individuals, you're dealing with armies. A single great strategist will make more difference in a situation like that, than a single great fighter could ever hope to. Not to say those two had no idea of strategy, but they are mostly known for their time behind a spear, rather than commanding an army.
JinsukeHP 3 years ago
awesome vid...thanks
known619er 3 years ago
post the whole thing plox
pepsipunk19991 3 years ago
yes i got it off ebay ;-)
footmarshian 3 years ago
cool upload. Do you have the whole thing?
pepsipunk19991 3 years ago