So anyway, why do atheists use the phrase "I lack a belief in God"? It's not the phrase itself that is supposed to shift the burden of proof onto theists, it is supposed to show more clearly than "I don't believe in God" , that the atheist position is NOT that we believe in the nonexistence of God, or any gods at all, but that we simply don't have any belief, because we have no reason for belief.
You sir are a certifyable idiot. Of COURSE "I lack hair" doesn't mean "I don't believe in hair", but it has nothing to do with "I lack a belief in God". You are pretending with these comparison like these atheists say "I lack God". But no, there is this "a belief in" in that sentence. So you would have to compare the phrase to a phrase like "I lack a belief in hair", that WOULD mean the same thing as "I don't believe in hair"
The bible and other holy books specifically talk against greed and power seeking. I mean they (atheists) obviously dont know anything about war either because correct me if im wrong but all wars are fought for land and that lands resources. WW2 - living space. WW1 - Austria occupying the balkans. Franco Prussian war was the balance of power. Again and again it is just imperial wars for power. Atheists are boring - who cares what you believe? Shall i make a video of how I believe? No BC its sad
Ahh Atheism the new YouTube fashion. How many videos have I seen now where the top comment is religion makes war. For supposedly intellectual people they obviously are lacking in discerment. For it is and always has been mans greed for money and power that not only starts wars but uses religion as an excuse to do so.
Oh, and what people mean when they say you're a theist and an atheist is that with respect to the god of the Bible, you're a theist, but you're a strong atheist with respect to all other gods. Similarly, I'm a weak atheist with respect to most gods, but I am a strong atheist with respect to some gods, such as the Abrahamic god.
@nichtmuttersprachlerWhat You cannot be an atheist if you believe in a god, that would make you part of whatever religion you worship. E.g If you believe in the christian god, you are christian, not an atheist.
@nichtmuttersprachler An analogy: A murderer is not a murderer because he didn't kill anyone else except this one person. That would be completely and utterly wrong. That person would still be a murderer since he killed a person. Just because he didn't kill everyone else does not mean he is not a murderer.
@nichtmuttersprachler A christian is an atheist because he does not believe in any other gods and only believes in his one god. That would be completely and utterly wrong. That person would still be a christian since he believes in the christian god, just because he does not believe in any other god does not make him an atheist.
@TheAceForce Obviously, atheism doesn't describe a Christian's theological position with respect to all deities, but a Christian is indeed an atheist *with respect to all gods but their own.* People's theological positions can change depending on the god in question, which is why I keep using the phrase "with respect to." Pay attention to how I've been using it.
You need to understand the difference between weak atheism and strong atheism. Weak atheists don't accept the claim "at least one god exists" as true, nor do they accept it as false. Strong atheists are like weak atheists in that they don't accept the claim "at least one god exists" as true, but unlike the weak atheist, they positively assert this claim is false. "Lack of belief" is an umbrella phrase that encompasses all atheists, both weak and strong. (BTW, babies are implicit weak atheists.)
@nichtmuttersprachler There is no weak or strong atheism. What you are describing as weak atheism is known as agnostic. Atheism means a lack of belief in god. Atheists do not disbelieve the christian god only. Just saying you do not believe in god is not a complete statement since that is a specific statement targeting one of many gods. A lack of belief in god is a general statement referring to all religions with gods in them.
@TheAceForce "There is no weak or strong atheism. " Wrong. Just google it. "What you are describing as weak atheism is known as agnostic." Nope. An agnostic is someone says nothing is know or can be known about something, in this case a god. This is distinct from weak atheism. Gnosticism and agnosticism deal with what can be *known* about a particular thing, whereas theism and atheism deal with whether a person *believes* gods exists or whether they lack that belief.
@nichtmuttersprachler Definition of agnostic: "A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God."
What you said: "Weak atheists don't accept the claim "at least one god exists" as true, nor do they accept it as false".
Agnostic fits the definition of weak atheist according to what you just stated. Source: type "agnostic definition" into google.
@nichtmuttersprachler Please explain how I am wrong, I googled the definition and it is synonymous to your definition of a "weak atheist." They both have the same definition so that must mean we are both correct, but we use different terminology to explain ourselves?
Agnosticism has nothing to do with either atheism or theism. Agnosticism is the position that MAN cannot prove if a god exists or if no god exists. It is a position about man, not about any proposed god.
Theism is the position that a god exists.
Atheism is the position that no god exists.
Both are beliefs. Neither has a burden of proof unless they are claimed to be true.
No it doesn't. Atheism means to believe there is no god. A lack of belief in god or a lack of anything, is not something that exists.
"Just saying you do not believe in god is not a complete statement since that is a specific statement targeting one of many gods. "
Wrong. By saying I do not believe in any god, that includes the possibility of more than one. As well, it says nothing about me or any atheist, it says what we aren't
@gklr You did not read what I said properly. Not believing in god and not believing in gods is not the same thing. You are implying that not believing in god is the same as not believing in any god. The fact is that it isn't. god is the singular form of gods. That is about the education level of a grade 2 child learning about plural and singular words. Are you that stupid you cannot understand something so simple.
Beliefs are a type of proposition that affirms a state of affairs and is not proven true or false.
You did not believe in a god 200 years before you were born. Saying you do not believe says zero about you, since the proposition is valid when you do not exist.
No-one HAS a lack of something. Saying they do is a serious logical error. I lack a 32nd head is true, I do not HAVE a lack of a 32nd head. No such thing exists.
I think once an atheist is made aware there is a God... They now have have been brought into the know. Once you are in the know... you have to make a choice. Innocence is no longer an option. They are not a baby.. not a child who lacks the ability to understand. They can not stand on the fence. You either agree or disagree. That's the problemm with knowledge...you can't be in the dark anymore, once you know. You can not be neutral. Atheists are not neutral.
"I think once an atheist is made aware there is a God"
You do not know there is a god, or you could prove there is a god. You believe there is a god. You "know" no such thing. You cannot know what you cannot show.
@gklr in referece to john 12:24-25 - Three applications of this metaphor are: (1) in nature, the death of seeds is necessary to their production of fruit; (2) Jesus consented to die as a means of winning the world to himself; and (3) for all who would be saved, the process is the same. One must renounce himself, loving not his own life, but losing it, and taking up fully the identity of Jesus in order to be saved. That is what Christians call being born again. You have heard of born again?
Saying it is a metaphore says it is not true. I am happy with that.
Apparently you believe that bible passage is true, as much as I do.
The word metaphor is catastrophic for theologens as it is an admission that the unfallible word of god is not true.
If Adam and Eve are metaphorical and didn't happen, then by saying so you are agreeing with me, no such people existed, the bible is not telling you the truth.
I'll go on loving life anyway. In spite of the bibles warning
@gklr really? Metaphores are untrue? Did you know the OT and NT talk about the lamb? sacrificing the lamb? It was a Symbol of Jesus Christ. thosands of years before the NT, the meaning of the lamb did not change and showed it was the symbol of Jesus and what he did for sinners by dying on the cross.
If you can't even wrap your head around the meaning of a symbol, then I think your in deeper crap than you realize.... When God walks away from you, it's by your own doing, not his.
@gklr What your claiming is that the metaphore (even a child can understand) is totally lost on you. Your not saying that you disagree with it -Your saying you don't understand it -BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!
It's not stupidity that keeps you from understanding -It sounds like you lost the spritual fight to understand the most basic of ideas which prevents you from "getting it", which doesn't even give you the option to understand. It's complete gibberish to you right? u've become an intellectual fool.
@gklr and Adam and Even are not metaphorical. See.. You can't even pick out facts from the metaphores. You can do it in other books... when the author is speaking of facts, then expains a concept in a metaphorically.... We all learn lessons from metaphores but your claiming, you can't tell the difference. That's not intellectual... that's blindness.
Scary.... and the sadder fact is, your not even aware of how sad and pathetic it really is. if your intellect was real, u could tell the difference
Because when you declare "I don't believe in God" you guys tend to bend that to say "I believe there is no God" in order to shift the burden of proof. Atheism makes no claim. The lack of belief is because there is nothing which has been presented to persuade me to believe in such a being. It's not a matter of placing the burden of proof on theists, because it is already their burden. Theism makes the claim there is a god, and therefore the burden is yours alone
@JasonBensleyDrain Our proof is the Bible. Now if you can't handle or accept the proof, then that's your delusion. You may not like our proof, you many not even want to accept it, but its proof none the less.
@PHXGirl23 Well the proof of Islam is the Kuran. Now if you can't handle or accept the proof, then that's your delusion. You may not like their (Muslim's) proof, you may not even want to accept it, but it's proof none the less.
The proof that allah cannot exist is in the koran. Ther koran says allah can do all things. It also says allah cannot have a son. That is a contradiction, 100% impossible. No such being can exist that can do all things and also cannot have a son. POOF goes Allah.
The proof that no being can be omnipotent or omnianything, is readily available. I am an atheist... but the point of showing contradictions is an application of logic (not atheism).
I say atheism is overrated. For those gods we can prove do not exist (and we can only do that via logical contradictions), there is no atheism (belief there is no god) required at all.
I think we have a misunderstanding. I'm not arguing for Islam, I was just showing PHXGirl23 how ridiculous her comment sounded from a different viewpoint. Sorry about that haha.
"I was just showing PHXGirl23 how ridiculous her comment sounded "
I knew that, lol, I was following the dotted line in your talk (and "kuran" tipped me of your weren't muslim).... my point was to show the koran (and toPHXGirl23 the bible) proves their respective gods do not exist..... no atheism required. We can prove those gods do not exist.
@gklr Mohammad of the Koran & Jesus in the bible. Both have a story of a woman who was caught having an affair & she was brough to Jesus & to Mohammad. Mohammad said, come back in two years & the woman did. She showed him her baby (born from the affair) could eat solid food. He took her baby, barried her up to her neck and killed her in front of her baby. Jesus was being tested when the law existed the woman should be stoned. He said, anyone without sin could cast the first stone. They all left.
The bible is proof that the god of the bible cannot exist... no atheism required to say so.
The bible says god never changes.... ever. God himself is apparently quoted as saying "I am lord, I do not change". Not that he sometimes changes, nope. As well it is common christian doctorine to say that god never changes. But change he does, repeatedly throughout the same bible. From repenting his own thoughts to much more. No atheism (belief) is required to dismiss that proposed god.
@gklr Correction, noone is required by their own admission to dedicate themselves to Christ. That's free will. You are correct, God doesn't change, People and how they justify their actions do. Unless you have been really serious about studying God, the bible is really consistant about what God thinks and how he reacts to the actions of non-believers and believers. Just because you chooose to live your life like an ostrich in the sand, the bible teaches you about how the spiritual world works.
@gklr You can not rise above ur own confession. If ur confession is, "There is no God", u can be any better than that. Hebrews 4:14 says, Jesus is the high Priest of our confession. That means, he can only do what we say, what is possible. If u go around confessing he doesn't do anything, u can not rise above the confessions u speak over your own life. If you knew what the bible says about you, and started speaking/confessing that over your life, you'd be different and have a different attitude.
I don't need atheism to say why I am not a christian. I need atheism (belief) to say that there is no god. There may be a god, is what atheism says. "There is probably no god" is what the bus ads say. Not that "There is no god". There may be a god, it just is not probable.. is the atheist position.
@gklr I don't argue that you claim to love life. But your apparently don't know how to read the bible. You have very strange views that most christians do not accept as accurate understanding of the bible. Now, if you want to disagree with what it says and you understand it the way it is.. fine, but your not even understanding it.
God is the same. It's people and their desires that change. People are fickle... and if you claim God is like people, then you don't really understand who God is.
John 12:25 says I must hate life to keep it eternal. I love life, so that prevents me from being a christian. Beyond the little detail that we can easily prove your god does not exist, no atheism required.
@gklr The verse is talking about the relationship between a seed having to dry (die) before it can grow into something. Same as for christians, being born again. We die to ourselves (we follow christ) we stop looking to ourselves as the leader in our life (which the atheist has serious problems understanding) , and by doing so, we are given a new life under Jesus Christ. Very symbolic.
So now you know. It has nothing to do with the literal meaning of, you must hate your life. Stupid Gkrl.
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal"
I simply do not hate life, so count me out. Your "explanation" was garbdlygook.
Christians hate their lives. I don't. I won't be teaching my kids to hate their lives either.
Sorry to hear you hate life. Unless you hate life in this world, you cannot keep it. Why you would want to keep it when you hate it is quite puzzling. You won't keep it anyway.
"The verse is talking about the relationship between a seed having to dry (die) before it can grow into something. Same as for christians, being born again. We die to ourselves (we follow christ) we stop looking to ourselves as the leader in our life (which the atheist has serious problems understanding) , and by doing so, we are given a new life under Jesus Christ. Very symbolic."
It says to hate life and is quite symbolic of why preachers always put the world down. Sad.
@gklr " It says to hate life and is quite symbolic of why preachers always put the world down. Sad."
I guess you don't watch the news much. If you think this world is so great, Let it do all it can to you. There are enough people in the world, who have been chewed up and spit out who know, this world is much more demonic than it is joyful. But christians living under a new set of rules, we live in this world, but we no longer OF THIS world. Oh yea.. you don't understand that either...
@gklr so if u disagree that seeds are not dead... then u have bigger issues. But if you can understand the symbolic meaning, that to die to yourself, and to take up the life Jesus is offering, that is called being born again. & to be born again, u have 2die 2ur flesh. All christians accept Christ, (also called the death of our flesh) and we choose to have a relationship with God/Christ, making him our Lord and Savior. Now we are different. My old-self has died, and I am a new creature in christ.
@gklr Jesus let the people convict themselves. If you think your so perfect, go ahead... stone her. no one wanted to do that because they all were convicted of their own sins of their own lives. A stupid fact of the Koran is that Muhammad though Mary was the sister of Moses. hahah. Not possible. Muhammad went around and interviewed christians to get a background and understanding of jesus and then couldnt even remember the facts correctly.
We do not need atheism (belief) to say your god does not exist. Why? Well you said god does not change. The bible, the same biblical god you claim exists, says the god of the bible does change. Repenting is to changes ones mind and the god of the bible repents so often he is weary of repenting.
The god that never changes and also changes, cannot exist. No atheism required to say so. Atheism deals with gods that are possible and yours isn't. Logic ends your god, not atheism.
@gklr I find it totally hysterical when people want to argue there is no God, and then they block you because they cant stand the confrontation, as if their egos are so delicate.... they can't handle the push.
@JasonBensleyDrain Christians do not prove God exists. in fact the Old Testament was written 400 years before Christ, and then Christ lived and died exactly the way the text said he would.... is intellectually untouchable -- Not even YOU can explain it. historically.... it shifts the burden to you as to why you disbelieve. The facts are laid out for you. The proof is provided to you, so the illogical conclusion has nothing to do with your intellect, but what is represents to you if its true to u
@PHXGirl23 Not really. The bible is so highly erroneous and contradictory that it's hard to take seriously. If Christianity is so compelling then why is it all but dead in Western Europe and secularism growing in the US? Why do 93% of the members of the national academy of sciences, the very people who study the nature of reality, disbelieve? Why is belief so geographical? People cling Christianity and religion not for any logical reason, but because it gives them a false sense of security.
@JasonBensleyDrain erroneous is in your own mind, you havent lifted a finger to prove to yourself what is true or isnt true. You just read books on people who take a little truth and add lies to it. You lack perspective on something that is personal to each person and you are not only afraid to call yourself out on your own illogical conclusions. Its safer to stand outside the fire and dismiss everything you see and are given than be in the fire experiencing it. Your just a coward like gkrl.
@PHXGirl23 The question of God is not "personal to each person" erroneous isn't just "in my own mind." There either is a God or isn't, it's not a subjective question. Since I am apparently just a "coward" I'll provide some counter arguments to God, you may have to google some, I don't know if that's too much research for somebody as intellectually inferior as you but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
@JasonBensleyDrain OH but is is personal to each person. If your not getting your healing... you feel cheated. If you pray and God you feel God isn't listening, you feel cheated. And until YOU need God, why does he have to show up for you? Your biggest fight is that each person you speak to, has a story personal to them, that has nothing to do with history, evolution...some cosmic argument. Once God speaks to u, heals you, shows up in an emergency, no one cares anymore about the atheist argument
Because God doesn't heal people, doctors and medicine do. God doesn't speak to me. I'm fully satisfied with my life as an atheist, I don't need to fill some "spiritual void." And the existence of God has nothing to do with whether or not you harbor resentment against him.
@JasonBensleyDrain There you go, you don't have the promises God gives freely for anyone who has faith, because you have a problem inside of you. Lots of people have that. So don't crash other people's party because we are willing to do what is necessary to be healed and be happy. It's not that you don't believe, but rather you choose not to do what is required to know of God.
@PHXGirl23 There are plenty of more reliable ways to deal with problems than God. And once again, if I'm not doing enough to "know of God" then present some arguments for Him.
@JasonBensleyDrain You have not a stitch of proof it's bullshit. What writen fact, historical occurance do you think that proves, without a doubt you are right?
If you had read the questions I posed to you, you would've seen "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" If God heals people regularly why are amputees exempt? Why shouldn't they get healed? People who can have their ailments ameliorated by modern medicine are conveniently hailed as being healed by God. It's a historical fact, no amputees have ever had limbs regrown.
@PHXGirl23 Also, I believe that my cat has magical powers and that she is the one healing these people all over the world. You have not a snitch of proof it's bullshit. What written fact, historical occurrence do you think that proves, without a doubt you are right?
@PHXGirl23 Well believe it or not, I have a growing movement that believes my cat has magical powers. My cat claims, through telekinesis that I shouldn't lie. So I would lie about my cat's magical powers?
My friends and I meet regularly to talk about my cat's magical powers and then we would lie about it?
@JasonBensleyDrain Are you one of those people who think Hitler didn't kill jews? This is very strange, both can be found in history books yet.... there are people today who swear Hitler didn't kill a soul.
@PHXGirl23 Hitler committed genocide against the Jews in WWII. That is much more historically sound than Jesus. We have people who have gone through the holocaust, we have documentation, we have numerous nazi officials being tired for it. All we have about Jesus' life is four documents that contradict each other and were written 30 years after his death at the earliest.
@JasonBensleyDrain A Roman historian Tacitus speaks of Christians in A.D. 64. He speaks of Christus (latin for Christ), who suffered the extreme penalty", Crucifixion. this happened during the reign of Tiberius. It confirms the Gospel about Jesus' Death. He also speaks of "most mischievous superstition", eluding that he also rose from the grave. It explains why the occurance why a fast grown religion was based on a man crucided as a criminal.
@JasonBensleyDrain Pliny the Younger/Emperor Trajan. in 112 AD, Pliny asks how to conduct legal issues against christians. It was because he had huge crowds of every age, class and gender who didn't deny they were Christians. He even describes them as meeting for the Sabbath, taking oaths to not do wicked deeds, never commiting fraud or stealing or adultry, saying false words, or denying the trust of others. They also eat innocent food. Thus, even he had a "problem" on his hands.
@JasonBensleyDrain unlike other Gods of the day, Pliny understood these people were worshiping a historical person as God who lived on the earth. He goes into great detail which confirms what the bible says about Jesus. A 1st century historian named Josephus also spoke of Jesus. What he comments about agrees with scripture. u can loo up what Babylonian Talmud said in AD 70-500. Lucian of Samosata, a 2nd centry Greek also spoke of Christians. There is evidece out there, if ur willing to find it.
@PHXGirl23 CONT The Eurythro dillema The problem of evil as posed by Epicurus Cosmic evolution Biological evolution Who designed the designer? The shear farcical nature of your religion. Why would God create a world where the majority of humans are going to hell? Prove that we have free will. (we don't) Why is God so conveniently absent from our lives? Why doesn't God heal amputees? The fact that the bible is unsubstantiated by anything other than itself. I'll pose more if you respond honestly
@JasonBensleyDrain no one can give you what u asking for because u reject everything. That's ur MO. How easy and sanctimonious of the Athesis - who thinks his mind can overcome God and anything spritual because his heart is so hard, nothing has a chance to get in. He looks at the world & he blames God for if he existed there would be no pain, yet he doesn't blame the Hearts of Man who create this pain & reasons they create such crap is because they reject the one thing that can heal them- God.
@PHXGirl23 No, no one can give me what I'm asking for because the idea of God is intellectually bankrupt. You're just dodging my questions as suspected. And who was it that supposedly created the hearts of man?
And since you're dodging the questions I asked, we'll take a different route. Since Christianity is so compelling please present specific arguments as to WHY it is so.
@JasonBensleyDrain The real question is, what do you want from God that you currently are not getting? I got my healing... so what would make you happy?
@PHXGirl23 Okay that's not an argument for Christianity, you're just presupposing something with nothing to back it up which is what I'm trying to highlight if you would actually attempt to answer the questions I've posed. You don't answer them because you know you can't answer satisfactorily. And you call me the coward? If your faith is so OBVIOUS that the burden of proof is automatically placed on me, then defend it.
@JasonBensleyDrain people dont go around wondering why doctors did or didn't help a person in a hospital. You couldnt care less if 2 people died in the local hospital. But you sure do care when you go to doctors office and you don't get help. People come to God when their egos are finally broken and they admit, they can't do it anymore. There is no history... nothing that would make you think, umm maybe he does exist. Because unless GOD is talking to you.... He isn't talking to anyone.
@JasonBensleyDrain This is interesting, so the Jewish community for 400 years prior to Christ, had their text tell them of the comming of a man who would be the son of God, and then Jesus appears on the scene. He is born knowing who he is, full fills every single thing the scriptures says he would. And yet you think its easy to pull off such a stunt in a life over 30+ Years... Personal accounts mean nothing, Eye witnesses again mean nothing... And you stand there in judgement that it's all a lie
@PHXGirl23 The gospels were written to fulfill prophecy. This is why only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth, Mark and John were unaware of the prophecy.
@JasonBensleyDrain Mark speaks about Jesus as a Servant of God, ordained by God. He doesn't speak about his early years because that isn't the purpose of the gospel he wrote. John speaks about Jesus as God from the perspective of Eternity. It starts with Jesus already present. (and the word became flesh and dwelt among us) John 1:14 He is talking about the fact Gods truth came into the world. He speaks of who he is, not where he comes. (read John 1:45) John knows Jesus existed as God.
@JasonBensleyDrain John does claim that the Word was manifested in the flesh. The only thing I say about Mark is that he just doesn't address Jesus in his early life. It really doesn't prove anything. You must instead look at the subject matter of their point of view and where that starts. Not every point of view needs to establish a president was born in the US to speak about the fact he was a US President.
@JasonBensleyDrain What Book did you read that showed the bible has contradictions in it? I'd like to read this book. What did Jesus do in his life, that would make you think he is nothing what he claimed to say he was.
@PHXGirl23 I read the bible, there's so much disparity between the gospels it's not even funny. The gospels disagree on the virgin birth, who came to the tomb, and the nature of the resurrection and that's just getting started. Google biblical contradictions and take a look. You won't do this though because you're scared of the truth. The bible is not an accurate account of history. It is all based on hearsay. The earliest gospel was written 30 years after Jesus died.
@JasonBensleyDrain Just about every question you present can be researched and can be explained. So in the age of Google, why do you not believe? You can look up historical references. We have more manuscripts on Jesus than we do on greek thinkers. But you'd never know it by the way we write about them. What you don't understand is that the world isn't going to support Christ. Even if he did come down for a day, you'd have people denying it and claimed they witnessed noone saw a thing.
@JasonBensleyDrain I've read the bible and Im not confused on any of it. nor are millions of other christians. why is it that it's only the non-blievers who get confused? It's because they are looking to disprove facts/not accept facts. You can't believe anything if you can't see anything but a chance to twist the information in front of you. It's like you claim to be so smart, educated preachers have been taught to overlook what you clearly see. yet no one else see's it. why? It's not there.
@JasonBensleyDrain well if Google contraditions is ur be-all proof, then u been dooped.There are 2many sites out there that correct the contradictions so if ur looking at a site who isn't about educating themselves but rather just promoting mis-information, then ur intellect has completely left ur brain.
In fact, I can't even count how many atheist-journalists who have written books about their 2 yr or 3-yr search to write the biggest novel to disprove Jesus and get converted in the process.
@PHXGirl23 Well verify that they're in the bible then. I've done so. And if you're talking about Lee Strobel, he is a joke. He was already a Christian when he wrote his books. He only interviewed incredibly biased Christian "experts" who just supported his opinion. If you think his so called "skepticism" was legitimate you're kidding yourself.
Also, the number of Christians who have actually taken a serious look at their religion and become atheists is much higher. The majority of atheists here on youtube have gone through this process.
@JasonBensleyDrain The proof that God doesn't exist is not in the fact bad things happens/people die/Tornados kill people every year cause U see innocient people who don't deserve 2have consequences. WHO ARE U TO JUDGE ANYONES HEART AS TO WHAT THEY DESERVE? It's discusting that atheists think there are no consequences for their actions. They cause most of the problems u blame God for not showing up 2& fixing. Atheists are the biggest fools 4 their intellect hides their own sins from themselves.
No belief in a god is a positive statement, which requires evidence.
Like the belief in god is also a positive statement, which requires evidence.
If you claim absolute truth that there is no Loch Ness monster, you are now required to show that there is no Loch Ness monster. Without proof a positive statement is null and void.
@baldurus1 Well, actually you can not prove a claim that something doesn't exist. This is why the burden rests upon theists. Because I can scour the universe, come up with scientific methods of examining parts of our universe never thought possible, no matter what I do I can not prove there is no God, because I can not give you physical evidence that there is no God. All I can really do is prove the dogma of different religions to be inaccurate both historically and scientifically.
@baldurus1 I uderstand what you're getting at, and you're all except you can prove a claim of non-existence. Which is why the term "lack of belief" is used in the first place. At it's core Atheism makes no claim at all, but rather says there is no evidence to support your claim and all logical arguments fail, therefore I lack the belief in your claim. Jack really got into semantics here. We know how the dictionary defines lack, and we also know how it is commonly used. The case with many words.
@baldurus1 There is NO god is more a declarative statement which seems to insist there is no god. It's stated as fact. . Theists tend to interpret statements like that as you making a claim requiring proof. Now I don't need to do anything to prove non-existence, it just can't be done. But lack of belief is a little more accurate. I don't know there is no god, I simply have not been given enough evidence to justify my faith in any deity. Therefore I lack a belief in a god or gods.
@TheBananamanAssassin Now you got it! I just dislike giving theists fuel especially when dictionaries have finally corrected the definition of Atheism. Before it was defined as a rejection of god(s), now it's defined as lack of belief in god(s). To go one step further i have stopped using the label Atheist all together. As there is no label for lack of belief in other fictional characters.
@baldurus1 Maybe I didn't articulate what I was saying the first time. BUt this was actually my original argument in saying that at it's core Atheism doe not make any claims, but rather denies claims that lack evidence and rational thought. In any event I think we're on the same page.
@Pomme843 Only if you turn it into one. I have no interest in debating semantics. But theists take every chance they can to shift the burden of proof. Beyond that they tend to be disingenuous in their arguments as such. There is no need to take this debate back to grade school. If you would like to debate this issue completely outside of semantics and on the grounds of logical and rational thought and empirical evidence then contact. But I sincerely doubt this is your wish
Burden of proof is NOT, I repeat, NOT tied to with who's trying to convince who. It has to do with who's making the more assertive claim. The claim, or belief, that "God" exists ("God" being an idea for which there is no observable data, rendering the traits of "God" free for anyone to make up for themselves, which is why there are so many variations of e.g. Christianity) is more assertive than the position of not believing in "God", thus theism bares the burden of proof.
@Pomme843 Which is exactly why using the term lack of belief makes more sense. Atheism does not make any claim. It is simply saying you have not given me reason to believe. It's not making the claim of non-existence but rather saying you have given me no reason to see otherwise, because as it stands religious claims are far fetched and offer no evidence or logical argument.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ...Stephen F Roberts
@PHXGirl23 I'm not sure why I am responding to you. I guess it's because I'm not sure if you're a troll of if you're really trying to assert that same ridiculous argument about something from nothing. Let's save the time and you tell me where God came from and then we can continue
@TheBananamanAssassin You know where God came from, the question is, why are you so deeply in denial of the truth that you allow your own sins to dictate to you, what you should believe or not.
@TheBananamanAssassin The only people who don't like God or believe there is a God are people who don't like Gods view point of their sin. It has nothing to do with if you think he exists. You know he exists. But you think you know better than God -- you don't like the way he rules, the way he gives justice... because in your eyes... you judge based on your own understand and frankly, you can't know what is in someone's heart to judge them. So you would rather not have a judge, thus, no God.
If you knew a god existed, you could state 1 thing true about that god. You can't.
State 1 thing true about any proposed god and you prove god exists. You don't have a single truth about any god and nor does anyone else.
We can prove your god does not exist, no atheism required... just logic is required. We can't do that for all proposed gods and why atheism remains a belief.
If you claim to know there is a god, I claim you are a nontheist.
@gklr Sounds like your really just closed minded and you listen to a lot of crap that people tell you. God wants to be first in our lives. That means, we sacrifice things in our life, that we put above God. In the end, it's only when people are exhaused with doing it their way, do they finally break and understand that God not only exists but he is here to help us on our journey of life to make it better. All your doing is justifying to yourself how you want it to be. Which is irrelevant to God.
How could an atheist, who thinks there is no god.... think they are better than one? They can't. No such thing as the atheist who thinks they know better than something that does not exist and therefore does not know anything at all.
Do you know better than the present King of France who does not exist? Nope. The present King of France knows nothing at all.
You can't be better than something that isn't anything.
@gklr How can an Atheist think there is no God? Easy, they think they are the end all be all. Your a grownup. You are not accountable to anyone for anything. You know it all... That's how.
@TheBananamanAssassin You can not control the hearts of Man. You can not control your neighbor. So who are you to presume you are higher than God to believe there is no God. As if the world runs in disorder. God brings Order to disorder. You disagree with his order. And you don't allow people who do make stupid decisions and selfish mistakes to own them and you discourage people from allowing God to heal people who find themselves suffering from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others.
@gklr Once you are make aware of God, that is when the whole game changes. Once you reject God because well.. you like living in denial, you don't like God telling you want to do, you don't feel like changing, (a 1000 other reasons people use to justify their non-belief), God leaves you to your delusions. You just magnify your unbelief by your own doing. So if no one has told you yet, I will, it is very bibically based, that your unblief is magnified to allow you to experience life without God.
@gklr Then in, when most of your life has passed away, something in your life will get your attention.& that is when God will allow u2 see what you have been in denial in for most of your life. u can either choose now 2 say, Hey wait a minute, am I really rejecting God by my attitude, or u can allow God 2find u as ur scraping the bottom of the bucket of life, in some toxic situation u find urself in. God hates the proud & once u come into real knowlege of him, that's when ur attitude changes.
@doloreg "One means that you think that there's a higher force, and the other that there isn't."
That's but one single definitions. There are others, e.g. "one means that you think that deity X exists, and the other that there isn't". By this definition, all people are atheists, because all people lack belief in thousands of deities, or "higher powers", in which other people believe, or have believed. Of course, stating that everyone is an atheist takes the meaning out of the word (continues)
@Pomme843 You misundersttod my definition. when i said belief in a higher force, i meant *any* higher force, and when i said lack of belief in a higher force, i meant *all* kinds of higher force. Hope that clears it up
This is a very good video Jack. I am glad I watched it. Obviously I was wrong in assuming your reasons for asking if you are an atheist. If you recall, I originally assumed it was due to "knowing and not believing there is a god". Perhaps that is another argument for another time.
What I found unsettling to see in this video was your passion. I am not sure if I liked that or not. Interesting to be sure. Why so much passion? I can't get that worked up about too much anymore. But for this?
I believe there may be a god and at the same time, I believe there may not be a god. These coinciding yet opposite ideas can be described as lacking a belief in gods because I lack the necessary proof to accept either as true. After all, a belief is an idea that a person accepts as true.
"Lack belief" is a simplified version of "I accept the proposal that a god or gods may exist but lack the necessary proof to accept or deny the truth of existence of a god or gods."
""Lack belief" is a simplified version of "I accept the proposal that a god or gods may exist but lack the necessary proof to accept or deny the truth of existence of a god or gods.""
@gklr Tht is full of so much fail. You obviously have no grasp of the topic. First, you don't get burden of proof at all it would appear. And secondly you can not ask for proof of my personal disbelief. It's MY disbelief, I am telling you I lack belief, It is proven. You can not enter my brain and find faith inside of me.
No belief has a burden of proof because no belief is or can be true. Beliefs are not truths. This is one of the first things I tell theists. "Your beliefs are not truths". Having to remind alleged atheists the same thing is terrible.
@gklr That's just ridiculous. Of course the existence of God is a belief. But now you're forcing to argue as a Theist, because obviously any belief can become a truth. How do you think we have come to discover all of the facts and truths in this universe. They were all beliefs at one time. Man, you really think you're an amazing intellectual, but you sure don't think things through before you speak.
You cannot prove you lack belief in a god, so saying so is a belief statement. Saying you lack belief says nothing about you. There is no such thing as a lack of belief as a thing. Atheism is a thing, it exists and is something. A lack of belief doesn't exist, there is no such thing.
You attempt to refer to something that doesn't exist and call it atheism. Utter nonsense and proof you don't know what atheism is.
When proposed, the idea of a supernatural being may be accepted. If the proposal is rejected one would say "I don't believe in gods" or possibly, "I believe there are no gods." Some may accept the idea of a god and when that being is defined, the truthfulness of the definition is accepted or rejected dependent on ones own choice.
When rejecting a defined god, one isn't necessarily rejecting the "idea" of a god.
There are many determining factors to the god proposal.
1) There is a god. a) This god created all b) This god wants you to obey it c) This god has given us a book of it's laws
First the idea of a god is proposed. Then the god is defined. Deeper definitions require more proof to satisfy a persons inquiry in order to accept the definition as true.
Generic definition of a god: A being with supernatural powers.
Youtube atheism is embarrassing. Nice video Jack. Your still making a mistake though. What i do not believe in does not define me.
I don;t believe in Gods. Am I an atheist or an agnostic? With only that information to work with, the question cannot be answered. Then clarity then is still missing.
@sashajw1234 Agnosticism deals with knowlege and atheism deals with belief. So technically we are all both, unless someone believes in every god ever created, in which case they would be a theistic agnostic. When in comes to gods, belief is more important than knowlege, since absolutely no one knows whether there is a god. Belief is what motivates people,discussing Agnosticism in pointless when talking about belief because it doesn't answer the question "Do you believe?".
@sashajw1234 The only possible answers to the belief question are Atheism, the lack of belief in gods, Deism, the belief that a god created the universe and does not interfere, and Theism, the belief in a god a interferes in our affairs. So those calling themselves Agnostic-Atheists or Agnostic-Theists(never heard of one calling themselves that) can remove the "Agnostic" label since no one knows.
@JesusTheNonTheist 'Agnosticism deals with knowlege and atheism deals with belief'
Agnosticism is formed around a belief concerning the amount of knowledge held concerning god(s)
It is not a literal statement of fact. Unless ofcourse you can prove that all minds which currently exist have no knowledge of any real god object. I believe you can't do it but if you can. I'm all ears.
@sashajw1234 Knowlege of something means essentially that you know for a FACT. I KNOW that 1+1=2, it is a fact. And no one has demostrated to me that they know there is a god. No one has ever provided sufficient evidence that there is a god, so I feel pretty safe not believing. I cannot demostrate that no one for sure knows of a god, but no one has provided evidence in a god, so until that happens I won't believe. Atheism is also not a literal statement of fact, which you alluded to.
@JesusTheNonTheist "Atheism is also not a literal statement of fact, which you alluded to."
Atheism is the belief there are no gods. No belief is a statement of truth. Atheists like my self understand we could be wrong but are comfortable believing there are no gods. Agnostics have a suspended judgement because of their belief they can't know.
' I cannot demostrate that no one for sure knows of a god'
THey why did you blanket everyone as agnostic when you don't know if they are?
youre either REALLY dumb; or REALLY ingenuous
ZayLong 2 months ago
So anyway, why do atheists use the phrase "I lack a belief in God"? It's not the phrase itself that is supposed to shift the burden of proof onto theists, it is supposed to show more clearly than "I don't believe in God" , that the atheist position is NOT that we believe in the nonexistence of God, or any gods at all, but that we simply don't have any belief, because we have no reason for belief.
eddiminus 2 months ago
You sir are a certifyable idiot. Of COURSE "I lack hair" doesn't mean "I don't believe in hair", but it has nothing to do with "I lack a belief in God". You are pretending with these comparison like these atheists say "I lack God". But no, there is this "a belief in" in that sentence. So you would have to compare the phrase to a phrase like "I lack a belief in hair", that WOULD mean the same thing as "I don't believe in hair"
eddiminus 2 months ago
Atheism is the default position. It is what Humans are. If you imagine a god you are a coward. Thats how it works
699backstab 3 months ago
@699backstab exactly!
opiux1 2 months ago
I lack a boner after watching this video.
Kunggreen 3 months ago
4:00
So what you're saying is people should stop saying "I lack god"?
Wait what.
Kunggreen 3 months ago
lack - "To be without"
I am without a belief in god. I do not have a belief in god.
I lack a belief means that I am without that belief. I do not have that belief.
Hammerfall3141 3 months ago
How many times did he contradict himself in this video? Countless times...
makkathran 4 months ago
This guy does NOT BELIEVE in synonyms...
streethockey47 5 months ago
so annoying... wish these would stop popping on my recommended
wentafew 5 months ago
OMG YOU ARE SUCH AN IDIOT!
yuxxuy 5 months ago
The bible and other holy books specifically talk against greed and power seeking. I mean they (atheists) obviously dont know anything about war either because correct me if im wrong but all wars are fought for land and that lands resources. WW2 - living space. WW1 - Austria occupying the balkans. Franco Prussian war was the balance of power. Again and again it is just imperial wars for power. Atheists are boring - who cares what you believe? Shall i make a video of how I believe? No BC its sad
MrGoldenSilence 7 months ago
Ahh Atheism the new YouTube fashion. How many videos have I seen now where the top comment is religion makes war. For supposedly intellectual people they obviously are lacking in discerment. For it is and always has been mans greed for money and power that not only starts wars but uses religion as an excuse to do so.
MrGoldenSilence 7 months ago
Comment removed
Botzu 7 months ago
Oh, and what people mean when they say you're a theist and an atheist is that with respect to the god of the Bible, you're a theist, but you're a strong atheist with respect to all other gods. Similarly, I'm a weak atheist with respect to most gods, but I am a strong atheist with respect to some gods, such as the Abrahamic god.
nichtmuttersprachler 7 months ago
@nichtmuttersprachlerWhat You cannot be an atheist if you believe in a god, that would make you part of whatever religion you worship. E.g If you believe in the christian god, you are christian, not an atheist.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@nichtmuttersprachler An analogy: A murderer is not a murderer because he didn't kill anyone else except this one person. That would be completely and utterly wrong. That person would still be a murderer since he killed a person. Just because he didn't kill everyone else does not mean he is not a murderer.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@nichtmuttersprachler A christian is an atheist because he does not believe in any other gods and only believes in his one god. That would be completely and utterly wrong. That person would still be a christian since he believes in the christian god, just because he does not believe in any other god does not make him an atheist.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@TheAceForce Obviously, atheism doesn't describe a Christian's theological position with respect to all deities, but a Christian is indeed an atheist *with respect to all gods but their own.* People's theological positions can change depending on the god in question, which is why I keep using the phrase "with respect to." Pay attention to how I've been using it.
nichtmuttersprachler 7 months ago
You need to understand the difference between weak atheism and strong atheism. Weak atheists don't accept the claim "at least one god exists" as true, nor do they accept it as false. Strong atheists are like weak atheists in that they don't accept the claim "at least one god exists" as true, but unlike the weak atheist, they positively assert this claim is false. "Lack of belief" is an umbrella phrase that encompasses all atheists, both weak and strong. (BTW, babies are implicit weak atheists.)
nichtmuttersprachler 7 months ago
@nichtmuttersprachler There is no weak or strong atheism. What you are describing as weak atheism is known as agnostic. Atheism means a lack of belief in god. Atheists do not disbelieve the christian god only. Just saying you do not believe in god is not a complete statement since that is a specific statement targeting one of many gods. A lack of belief in god is a general statement referring to all religions with gods in them.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@TheAceForce "There is no weak or strong atheism. " Wrong. Just google it. "What you are describing as weak atheism is known as agnostic." Nope. An agnostic is someone says nothing is know or can be known about something, in this case a god. This is distinct from weak atheism. Gnosticism and agnosticism deal with what can be *known* about a particular thing, whereas theism and atheism deal with whether a person *believes* gods exists or whether they lack that belief.
nichtmuttersprachler 7 months ago
@nichtmuttersprachler Definition of agnostic: "A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God."
What you said: "Weak atheists don't accept the claim "at least one god exists" as true, nor do they accept it as false".
Agnostic fits the definition of weak atheist according to what you just stated. Source: type "agnostic definition" into google.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@nichtmuttersprachler Please explain how I am wrong, I googled the definition and it is synonymous to your definition of a "weak atheist." They both have the same definition so that must mean we are both correct, but we use different terminology to explain ourselves?
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@TheAceForce,
Agnosticism has nothing to do with either atheism or theism. Agnosticism is the position that MAN cannot prove if a god exists or if no god exists. It is a position about man, not about any proposed god.
Theism is the position that a god exists.
Atheism is the position that no god exists.
Both are beliefs. Neither has a burden of proof unless they are claimed to be true.
gklr 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@nichtmuttersprachler,
""There is no weak or strong atheism. " Wrong. Just google it. "
Google is your bible? Wow. Dude, weak atheism does not exist, it is only held to exist by people who would fail entry level logic.
If you do not believe there is no god, are you a weak theist?
The logic of "weak and strong" atheism collapses on itself. There is only atheism, the belief that there is no god.
gklr 7 months ago
@TheAceForce,
"Atheism means a lack of belief in god. "
No it doesn't. Atheism means to believe there is no god. A lack of belief in god or a lack of anything, is not something that exists.
"Just saying you do not believe in god is not a complete statement since that is a specific statement targeting one of many gods. "
Wrong. By saying I do not believe in any god, that includes the possibility of more than one. As well, it says nothing about me or any atheist, it says what we aren't
gklr 7 months ago
@gklr You did not read what I said properly. Not believing in god and not believing in gods is not the same thing. You are implying that not believing in god is the same as not believing in any god. The fact is that it isn't. god is the singular form of gods. That is about the education level of a grade 2 child learning about plural and singular words. Are you that stupid you cannot understand something so simple.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@TheAceForce,
"You did not read what I said properly."
Yes I did.
"Not believing in god and not believing in gods is not the same thing."
Really? Neither exist so you show the difference.
"The fact is that it isn't"
Facts are properties of material objects and no facts were raised by your or by me.
"That is about the education level of a grade 2 child learning about plural and singular words."
Ironic. Did you get that far then?
gklr 7 months ago
@gklr Belief definition: An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
This means if you do not accept in god, you have a lack of belief in him since belief in him means that you believe he exists.
TheAceForce 7 months ago
@TheAceForce,
Beliefs are a type of proposition that affirms a state of affairs and is not proven true or false.
You did not believe in a god 200 years before you were born. Saying you do not believe says zero about you, since the proposition is valid when you do not exist.
No-one HAS a lack of something. Saying they do is a serious logical error. I lack a 32nd head is true, I do not HAVE a lack of a 32nd head. No such thing exists.
gklr 7 months ago
I think once an atheist is made aware there is a God... They now have have been brought into the know. Once you are in the know... you have to make a choice. Innocence is no longer an option. They are not a baby.. not a child who lacks the ability to understand. They can not stand on the fence. You either agree or disagree. That's the problemm with knowledge...you can't be in the dark anymore, once you know. You can not be neutral. Atheists are not neutral.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PHXGirl23,
"I think once an atheist is made aware there is a God"
You do not know there is a god, or you could prove there is a god. You believe there is a god. You "know" no such thing. You cannot know what you cannot show.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr in referece to john 12:24-25 - Three applications of this metaphor are: (1) in nature, the death of seeds is necessary to their production of fruit; (2) Jesus consented to die as a means of winning the world to himself; and (3) for all who would be saved, the process is the same. One must renounce himself, loving not his own life, but losing it, and taking up fully the identity of Jesus in order to be saved. That is what Christians call being born again. You have heard of born again?
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
Saying it is a metaphore says it is not true. I am happy with that.
Apparently you believe that bible passage is true, as much as I do.
The word metaphor is catastrophic for theologens as it is an admission that the unfallible word of god is not true.
If Adam and Eve are metaphorical and didn't happen, then by saying so you are agreeing with me, no such people existed, the bible is not telling you the truth.
I'll go on loving life anyway. In spite of the bibles warning
gklr 7 months ago
@gklr really? Metaphores are untrue? Did you know the OT and NT talk about the lamb? sacrificing the lamb? It was a Symbol of Jesus Christ. thosands of years before the NT, the meaning of the lamb did not change and showed it was the symbol of Jesus and what he did for sinners by dying on the cross.
If you can't even wrap your head around the meaning of a symbol, then I think your in deeper crap than you realize.... When God walks away from you, it's by your own doing, not his.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@gklr What your claiming is that the metaphore (even a child can understand) is totally lost on you. Your not saying that you disagree with it -Your saying you don't understand it -BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!
It's not stupidity that keeps you from understanding -It sounds like you lost the spritual fight to understand the most basic of ideas which prevents you from "getting it", which doesn't even give you the option to understand. It's complete gibberish to you right? u've become an intellectual fool.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@gklr and Adam and Even are not metaphorical. See.. You can't even pick out facts from the metaphores. You can do it in other books... when the author is speaking of facts, then expains a concept in a metaphorically.... We all learn lessons from metaphores but your claiming, you can't tell the difference. That's not intellectual... that's blindness.
Scary.... and the sadder fact is, your not even aware of how sad and pathetic it really is. if your intellect was real, u could tell the difference
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
So I also must ask the point of your video other than just arguing semantics. You completely understand what is being said, so what does it matter?
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
Because when you declare "I don't believe in God" you guys tend to bend that to say "I believe there is no God" in order to shift the burden of proof. Atheism makes no claim. The lack of belief is because there is nothing which has been presented to persuade me to believe in such a being. It's not a matter of placing the burden of proof on theists, because it is already their burden. Theism makes the claim there is a god, and therefore the burden is yours alone
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
I'm 12, I know what this is better than you.
TheGeneralBurn 8 months ago
This guy is so deluded
iliveon 8 months ago
I really don't think it matters. Either way you phrase it the burden of proof is still on the person making the claim, the theist.
JasonBensleyDrain 8 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain Our proof is the Bible. Now if you can't handle or accept the proof, then that's your delusion. You may not like our proof, you many not even want to accept it, but its proof none the less.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Well the proof of Islam is the Kuran. Now if you can't handle or accept the proof, then that's your delusion. You may not like their (Muslim's) proof, you may not even want to accept it, but it's proof none the less.
JasonBensleyDrain 8 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain,
"Well the proof of Islam is the Kuran"
The proof that allah cannot exist is in the koran. Ther koran says allah can do all things. It also says allah cannot have a son. That is a contradiction, 100% impossible. No such being can exist that can do all things and also cannot have a son. POOF goes Allah.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr
Is the Christian God omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient?
If you say yes, please check out the problem of evil as posed by Epicurus.
If you say no, well wouldn't that contradict the bible?
And even so, the bible contains countless contradictions, just look at the different accounts of the gospels.
JasonBensleyDrain 8 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain,
The proof that no being can be omnipotent or omnianything, is readily available. I am an atheist... but the point of showing contradictions is an application of logic (not atheism).
I say atheism is overrated. For those gods we can prove do not exist (and we can only do that via logical contradictions), there is no atheism (belief there is no god) required at all.
Atheism is a yawn.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr
Interesting point to consider
JasonBensleyDrain 8 months ago
@gklr
I think we have a misunderstanding. I'm not arguing for Islam, I was just showing PHXGirl23 how ridiculous her comment sounded from a different viewpoint. Sorry about that haha.
JasonBensleyDrain 8 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain,
"I was just showing PHXGirl23 how ridiculous her comment sounded "
I knew that, lol, I was following the dotted line in your talk (and "kuran" tipped me of your weren't muslim).... my point was to show the koran (and toPHXGirl23 the bible) proves their respective gods do not exist..... no atheism required. We can prove those gods do not exist.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr Mohammad of the Koran & Jesus in the bible. Both have a story of a woman who was caught having an affair & she was brough to Jesus & to Mohammad. Mohammad said, come back in two years & the woman did. She showed him her baby (born from the affair) could eat solid food. He took her baby, barried her up to her neck and killed her in front of her baby. Jesus was being tested when the law existed the woman should be stoned. He said, anyone without sin could cast the first stone. They all left.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
The bible is proof that the god of the bible cannot exist... no atheism required to say so.
The bible says god never changes.... ever. God himself is apparently quoted as saying "I am lord, I do not change". Not that he sometimes changes, nope. As well it is common christian doctorine to say that god never changes. But change he does, repeatedly throughout the same bible. From repenting his own thoughts to much more. No atheism (belief) is required to dismiss that proposed god.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr Correction, noone is required by their own admission to dedicate themselves to Christ. That's free will. You are correct, God doesn't change, People and how they justify their actions do. Unless you have been really serious about studying God, the bible is really consistant about what God thinks and how he reacts to the actions of non-believers and believers. Just because you chooose to live your life like an ostrich in the sand, the bible teaches you about how the spiritual world works.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@gklr You can not rise above ur own confession. If ur confession is, "There is no God", u can be any better than that. Hebrews 4:14 says, Jesus is the high Priest of our confession. That means, he can only do what we say, what is possible. If u go around confessing he doesn't do anything, u can not rise above the confessions u speak over your own life. If you knew what the bible says about you, and started speaking/confessing that over your life, you'd be different and have a different attitude.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@gklr ...err. u cant rise above anything you speak over your life.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"...err. u cant rise above anything you speak over your life."
I love life and that is why I couldn't be a christian.
John 12:25 says I must hate life. No thanks.
I don't need atheism to say why I am not a christian. I need atheism (belief) to say that there is no god. There may be a god, is what atheism says. "There is probably no god" is what the bus ads say. Not that "There is no god". There may be a god, it just is not probable.. is the atheist position.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr I don't argue that you claim to love life. But your apparently don't know how to read the bible. You have very strange views that most christians do not accept as accurate understanding of the bible. Now, if you want to disagree with what it says and you understand it the way it is.. fine, but your not even understanding it.
God is the same. It's people and their desires that change. People are fickle... and if you claim God is like people, then you don't really understand who God is.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
John 12:25 says I must hate life to keep it eternal. I love life, so that prevents me from being a christian. Beyond the little detail that we can easily prove your god does not exist, no atheism required.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr The verse is talking about the relationship between a seed having to dry (die) before it can grow into something. Same as for christians, being born again. We die to ourselves (we follow christ) we stop looking to ourselves as the leader in our life (which the atheist has serious problems understanding) , and by doing so, we are given a new life under Jesus Christ. Very symbolic.
So now you know. It has nothing to do with the literal meaning of, you must hate your life. Stupid Gkrl.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal"
I simply do not hate life, so count me out. Your "explanation" was garbdlygook.
Christians hate their lives. I don't. I won't be teaching my kids to hate their lives either.
Sorry to hear you hate life. Unless you hate life in this world, you cannot keep it. Why you would want to keep it when you hate it is quite puzzling. You won't keep it anyway.
gklr 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"The verse is talking about the relationship between a seed having to dry (die) before it can grow into something. Same as for christians, being born again. We die to ourselves (we follow christ) we stop looking to ourselves as the leader in our life (which the atheist has serious problems understanding) , and by doing so, we are given a new life under Jesus Christ. Very symbolic."
It says to hate life and is quite symbolic of why preachers always put the world down. Sad.
gklr 7 months ago
@gklr " It says to hate life and is quite symbolic of why preachers always put the world down. Sad."
I guess you don't watch the news much. If you think this world is so great, Let it do all it can to you. There are enough people in the world, who have been chewed up and spit out who know, this world is much more demonic than it is joyful. But christians living under a new set of rules, we live in this world, but we no longer OF THIS world. Oh yea.. you don't understand that either...
sad
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@gklr coward.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@gklr so if u disagree that seeds are not dead... then u have bigger issues. But if you can understand the symbolic meaning, that to die to yourself, and to take up the life Jesus is offering, that is called being born again. & to be born again, u have 2die 2ur flesh. All christians accept Christ, (also called the death of our flesh) and we choose to have a relationship with God/Christ, making him our Lord and Savior. Now we are different. My old-self has died, and I am a new creature in christ.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@gklr Jesus let the people convict themselves. If you think your so perfect, go ahead... stone her. no one wanted to do that because they all were convicted of their own sins of their own lives. A stupid fact of the Koran is that Muhammad though Mary was the sister of Moses. hahah. Not possible. Muhammad went around and interviewed christians to get a background and understanding of jesus and then couldnt even remember the facts correctly.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
We do not need atheism (belief) to say your god does not exist. Why? Well you said god does not change. The bible, the same biblical god you claim exists, says the god of the bible does change. Repenting is to changes ones mind and the god of the bible repents so often he is weary of repenting.
The god that never changes and also changes, cannot exist. No atheism required to say so. Atheism deals with gods that are possible and yours isn't. Logic ends your god, not atheism.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr I find it totally hysterical when people want to argue there is no God, and then they block you because they cant stand the confrontation, as if their egos are so delicate.... they can't handle the push.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain Christians do not prove God exists. in fact the Old Testament was written 400 years before Christ, and then Christ lived and died exactly the way the text said he would.... is intellectually untouchable -- Not even YOU can explain it. historically.... it shifts the burden to you as to why you disbelieve. The facts are laid out for you. The proof is provided to you, so the illogical conclusion has nothing to do with your intellect, but what is represents to you if its true to u
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Not really. The bible is so highly erroneous and contradictory that it's hard to take seriously. If Christianity is so compelling then why is it all but dead in Western Europe and secularism growing in the US? Why do 93% of the members of the national academy of sciences, the very people who study the nature of reality, disbelieve? Why is belief so geographical? People cling Christianity and religion not for any logical reason, but because it gives them a false sense of security.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain erroneous is in your own mind, you havent lifted a finger to prove to yourself what is true or isnt true. You just read books on people who take a little truth and add lies to it. You lack perspective on something that is personal to each person and you are not only afraid to call yourself out on your own illogical conclusions. Its safer to stand outside the fire and dismiss everything you see and are given than be in the fire experiencing it. Your just a coward like gkrl.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 The question of God is not "personal to each person" erroneous isn't just "in my own mind." There either is a God or isn't, it's not a subjective question. Since I am apparently just a "coward" I'll provide some counter arguments to God, you may have to google some, I don't know if that's too much research for somebody as intellectually inferior as you but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain OH but is is personal to each person. If your not getting your healing... you feel cheated. If you pray and God you feel God isn't listening, you feel cheated. And until YOU need God, why does he have to show up for you? Your biggest fight is that each person you speak to, has a story personal to them, that has nothing to do with history, evolution...some cosmic argument. Once God speaks to u, heals you, shows up in an emergency, no one cares anymore about the atheist argument
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Yeah that's bullshit.
Because God doesn't heal people, doctors and medicine do. God doesn't speak to me. I'm fully satisfied with my life as an atheist, I don't need to fill some "spiritual void." And the existence of God has nothing to do with whether or not you harbor resentment against him.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain There you go, you don't have the promises God gives freely for anyone who has faith, because you have a problem inside of you. Lots of people have that. So don't crash other people's party because we are willing to do what is necessary to be healed and be happy. It's not that you don't believe, but rather you choose not to do what is required to know of God.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 There are plenty of more reliable ways to deal with problems than God. And once again, if I'm not doing enough to "know of God" then present some arguments for Him.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain You have not a stitch of proof it's bullshit. What writen fact, historical occurance do you think that proves, without a doubt you are right?
((tap tap.... I can't wait to read this one))
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23
If you had read the questions I posed to you, you would've seen "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" If God heals people regularly why are amputees exempt? Why shouldn't they get healed? People who can have their ailments ameliorated by modern medicine are conveniently hailed as being healed by God. It's a historical fact, no amputees have ever had limbs regrown.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Also, I believe that my cat has magical powers and that she is the one healing these people all over the world. You have not a snitch of proof it's bullshit. What written fact, historical occurrence do you think that proves, without a doubt you are right?
((tap tap... I can't wait to read this one))
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain what your saying, is that Christians, who's bibical text gives claim we don't have to lie nor should we, we.... are all liars?
Good one..... So we will chruches and have study groups around the world and we all have this secret life where we lie about our expereinces with God.
uh-yeah... that sound logical..... (not)
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Well believe it or not, I have a growing movement that believes my cat has magical powers. My cat claims, through telekinesis that I shouldn't lie. So I would lie about my cat's magical powers?
My friends and I meet regularly to talk about my cat's magical powers and then we would lie about it?
uh yeah... that sounds logical... (not)
Please present an ACTUAL argument.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain Are you one of those people who think Hitler didn't kill jews? This is very strange, both can be found in history books yet.... there are people today who swear Hitler didn't kill a soul.
Yeah, thats real logical.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Hitler committed genocide against the Jews in WWII. That is much more historically sound than Jesus. We have people who have gone through the holocaust, we have documentation, we have numerous nazi officials being tired for it. All we have about Jesus' life is four documents that contradict each other and were written 30 years after his death at the earliest.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain A Roman historian Tacitus speaks of Christians in A.D. 64. He speaks of Christus (latin for Christ), who suffered the extreme penalty", Crucifixion. this happened during the reign of Tiberius. It confirms the Gospel about Jesus' Death. He also speaks of "most mischievous superstition", eluding that he also rose from the grave. It explains why the occurance why a fast grown religion was based on a man crucided as a criminal.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain Pliny the Younger/Emperor Trajan. in 112 AD, Pliny asks how to conduct legal issues against christians. It was because he had huge crowds of every age, class and gender who didn't deny they were Christians. He even describes them as meeting for the Sabbath, taking oaths to not do wicked deeds, never commiting fraud or stealing or adultry, saying false words, or denying the trust of others. They also eat innocent food. Thus, even he had a "problem" on his hands.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain unlike other Gods of the day, Pliny understood these people were worshiping a historical person as God who lived on the earth. He goes into great detail which confirms what the bible says about Jesus. A 1st century historian named Josephus also spoke of Jesus. What he comments about agrees with scripture. u can loo up what Babylonian Talmud said in AD 70-500. Lucian of Samosata, a 2nd centry Greek also spoke of Christians. There is evidece out there, if ur willing to find it.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain You don't care about all that. The only thing you care about is why God isn't listing to you.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain no one can give you what u asking for because u reject everything. That's ur MO. How easy and sanctimonious of the Athesis - who thinks his mind can overcome God and anything spritual because his heart is so hard, nothing has a chance to get in. He looks at the world & he blames God for if he existed there would be no pain, yet he doesn't blame the Hearts of Man who create this pain & reasons they create such crap is because they reject the one thing that can heal them- God.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 No, no one can give me what I'm asking for because the idea of God is intellectually bankrupt. You're just dodging my questions as suspected. And who was it that supposedly created the hearts of man?
And since you're dodging the questions I asked, we'll take a different route. Since Christianity is so compelling please present specific arguments as to WHY it is so.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain The real question is, what do you want from God that you currently are not getting? I got my healing... so what would make you happy?
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Okay that's not an argument for Christianity, you're just presupposing something with nothing to back it up which is what I'm trying to highlight if you would actually attempt to answer the questions I've posed. You don't answer them because you know you can't answer satisfactorily. And you call me the coward? If your faith is so OBVIOUS that the burden of proof is automatically placed on me, then defend it.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain people dont go around wondering why doctors did or didn't help a person in a hospital. You couldnt care less if 2 people died in the local hospital. But you sure do care when you go to doctors office and you don't get help. People come to God when their egos are finally broken and they admit, they can't do it anymore. There is no history... nothing that would make you think, umm maybe he does exist. Because unless GOD is talking to you.... He isn't talking to anyone.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain This is interesting, so the Jewish community for 400 years prior to Christ, had their text tell them of the comming of a man who would be the son of God, and then Jesus appears on the scene. He is born knowing who he is, full fills every single thing the scriptures says he would. And yet you think its easy to pull off such a stunt in a life over 30+ Years... Personal accounts mean nothing, Eye witnesses again mean nothing... And you stand there in judgement that it's all a lie
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 The gospels were written to fulfill prophecy. This is why only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth, Mark and John were unaware of the prophecy.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain Mark speaks about Jesus as a Servant of God, ordained by God. He doesn't speak about his early years because that isn't the purpose of the gospel he wrote. John speaks about Jesus as God from the perspective of Eternity. It starts with Jesus already present. (and the word became flesh and dwelt among us) John 1:14 He is talking about the fact Gods truth came into the world. He speaks of who he is, not where he comes. (read John 1:45) John knows Jesus existed as God.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain John does claim that the Word was manifested in the flesh. The only thing I say about Mark is that he just doesn't address Jesus in his early life. It really doesn't prove anything. You must instead look at the subject matter of their point of view and where that starts. Not every point of view needs to establish a president was born in the US to speak about the fact he was a US President.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain What Book did you read that showed the bible has contradictions in it? I'd like to read this book. What did Jesus do in his life, that would make you think he is nothing what he claimed to say he was.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 I read the bible, there's so much disparity between the gospels it's not even funny. The gospels disagree on the virgin birth, who came to the tomb, and the nature of the resurrection and that's just getting started. Google biblical contradictions and take a look. You won't do this though because you're scared of the truth. The bible is not an accurate account of history. It is all based on hearsay. The earliest gospel was written 30 years after Jesus died.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain Just about every question you present can be researched and can be explained. So in the age of Google, why do you not believe? You can look up historical references. We have more manuscripts on Jesus than we do on greek thinkers. But you'd never know it by the way we write about them. What you don't understand is that the world isn't going to support Christ. Even if he did come down for a day, you'd have people denying it and claimed they witnessed noone saw a thing.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain I've read the bible and Im not confused on any of it. nor are millions of other christians. why is it that it's only the non-blievers who get confused? It's because they are looking to disprove facts/not accept facts. You can't believe anything if you can't see anything but a chance to twist the information in front of you. It's like you claim to be so smart, educated preachers have been taught to overlook what you clearly see. yet no one else see's it. why? It's not there.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23
Once again, google biblical contradictions and look at the first site.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain well if Google contraditions is ur be-all proof, then u been dooped.There are 2many sites out there that correct the contradictions so if ur looking at a site who isn't about educating themselves but rather just promoting mis-information, then ur intellect has completely left ur brain.
In fact, I can't even count how many atheist-journalists who have written books about their 2 yr or 3-yr search to write the biggest novel to disprove Jesus and get converted in the process.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23 Well verify that they're in the bible then. I've done so. And if you're talking about Lee Strobel, he is a joke. He was already a Christian when he wrote his books. He only interviewed incredibly biased Christian "experts" who just supported his opinion. If you think his so called "skepticism" was legitimate you're kidding yourself.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@PHXGirl23
Also, the number of Christians who have actually taken a serious look at their religion and become atheists is much higher. The majority of atheists here on youtube have gone through this process.
JasonBensleyDrain 7 months ago
@JasonBensleyDrain The proof that God doesn't exist is not in the fact bad things happens/people die/Tornados kill people every year cause U see innocient people who don't deserve 2have consequences. WHO ARE U TO JUDGE ANYONES HEART AS TO WHAT THEY DESERVE? It's discusting that atheists think there are no consequences for their actions. They cause most of the problems u blame God for not showing up 2& fixing. Atheists are the biggest fools 4 their intellect hides their own sins from themselves.
PHXGirl23 7 months ago
you lack your share of delusion or co creating with others placing your actions in the hands of a imaginary deity.
coldarc 9 months ago
No belief in a god is a positive statement, which requires evidence.
Like the belief in god is also a positive statement, which requires evidence.
If you claim absolute truth that there is no Loch Ness monster, you are now required to show that there is no Loch Ness monster. Without proof a positive statement is null and void.
baldurus1 10 months ago
@baldurus1 Well, actually you can not prove a claim that something doesn't exist. This is why the burden rests upon theists. Because I can scour the universe, come up with scientific methods of examining parts of our universe never thought possible, no matter what I do I can not prove there is no God, because I can not give you physical evidence that there is no God. All I can really do is prove the dogma of different religions to be inaccurate both historically and scientifically.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@baldurus1 I uderstand what you're getting at, and you're all except you can prove a claim of non-existence. Which is why the term "lack of belief" is used in the first place. At it's core Atheism makes no claim at all, but rather says there is no evidence to support your claim and all logical arguments fail, therefore I lack the belief in your claim. Jack really got into semantics here. We know how the dictionary defines lack, and we also know how it is commonly used. The case with many words.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin Lack of belief is not the same as there is NO god. The only default position is lack OF belief.
baldurus1 8 months ago
@baldurus1 There is NO god is more a declarative statement which seems to insist there is no god. It's stated as fact. . Theists tend to interpret statements like that as you making a claim requiring proof. Now I don't need to do anything to prove non-existence, it just can't be done. But lack of belief is a little more accurate. I don't know there is no god, I simply have not been given enough evidence to justify my faith in any deity. Therefore I lack a belief in a god or gods.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin Now you got it! I just dislike giving theists fuel especially when dictionaries have finally corrected the definition of Atheism. Before it was defined as a rejection of god(s), now it's defined as lack of belief in god(s). To go one step further i have stopped using the label Atheist all together. As there is no label for lack of belief in other fictional characters.
baldurus1 8 months ago
@baldurus1 Maybe I didn't articulate what I was saying the first time. BUt this was actually my original argument in saying that at it's core Atheism doe not make any claims, but rather denies claims that lack evidence and rational thought. In any event I think we're on the same page.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin Well maybe i read your first statement in a hurry. :D
baldurus1 8 months ago
"atheist", but it does state an important point: there is no more (descriptive) reason to believe in one religion than there is to believe in another.
Remember, debating what an atheist is, will usually become a debate of sematics.
Pomme843 11 months ago
@Pomme843 Only if you turn it into one. I have no interest in debating semantics. But theists take every chance they can to shift the burden of proof. Beyond that they tend to be disingenuous in their arguments as such. There is no need to take this debate back to grade school. If you would like to debate this issue completely outside of semantics and on the grounds of logical and rational thought and empirical evidence then contact. But I sincerely doubt this is your wish
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
Burden of proof is NOT, I repeat, NOT tied to with who's trying to convince who. It has to do with who's making the more assertive claim. The claim, or belief, that "God" exists ("God" being an idea for which there is no observable data, rendering the traits of "God" free for anyone to make up for themselves, which is why there are so many variations of e.g. Christianity) is more assertive than the position of not believing in "God", thus theism bares the burden of proof.
Pomme843 11 months ago
@Pomme843 Which is exactly why using the term lack of belief makes more sense. Atheism does not make any claim. It is simply saying you have not given me reason to believe. It's not making the claim of non-existence but rather saying you have given me no reason to see otherwise, because as it stands religious claims are far fetched and offer no evidence or logical argument.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
Im 16 and incapable of believing in god
I really cant
I never really did btw
ever since I was a fucking kid I know it was bullshit
barneysixx 11 months ago
Paul-Sego owned you LOL
HARD!!!
IoIocaust 11 months ago
i dont cear
maddog5uk 11 months ago
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ...Stephen F Roberts
heathsawyer 11 months ago
I don't have that kind of faith to think I could be an Atheist.
PHXGirl23 1 year ago
@PHXGirl23 I'm not sure why I am responding to you. I guess it's because I'm not sure if you're a troll of if you're really trying to assert that same ridiculous argument about something from nothing. Let's save the time and you tell me where God came from and then we can continue
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin You know where God came from, the question is, why are you so deeply in denial of the truth that you allow your own sins to dictate to you, what you should believe or not.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin The only people who don't like God or believe there is a God are people who don't like Gods view point of their sin. It has nothing to do with if you think he exists. You know he exists. But you think you know better than God -- you don't like the way he rules, the way he gives justice... because in your eyes... you judge based on your own understand and frankly, you can't know what is in someone's heart to judge them. So you would rather not have a judge, thus, no God.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"You know he exists"
If you knew a god existed, you could state 1 thing true about that god. You can't.
State 1 thing true about any proposed god and you prove god exists. You don't have a single truth about any god and nor does anyone else.
We can prove your god does not exist, no atheism required... just logic is required. We can't do that for all proposed gods and why atheism remains a belief.
If you claim to know there is a god, I claim you are a nontheist.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr Sounds like your really just closed minded and you listen to a lot of crap that people tell you. God wants to be first in our lives. That means, we sacrifice things in our life, that we put above God. In the end, it's only when people are exhaused with doing it their way, do they finally break and understand that God not only exists but he is here to help us on our journey of life to make it better. All your doing is justifying to yourself how you want it to be. Which is irrelevant to God.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"But you think you know better than God "
How could an atheist, who thinks there is no god.... think they are better than one? They can't. No such thing as the atheist who thinks they know better than something that does not exist and therefore does not know anything at all.
Do you know better than the present King of France who does not exist? Nope. The present King of France knows nothing at all.
You can't be better than something that isn't anything.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr How can an Atheist think there is no God? Easy, they think they are the end all be all. Your a grownup. You are not accountable to anyone for anything. You know it all... That's how.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"How can an Atheist think there is no God?"
Simple. All that can be explained, all that is known about the universe, never invokes a god once. No need for one.
"You are not accountable to anyone for anything"
lol, nonsense.
gklr 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin You can not control the hearts of Man. You can not control your neighbor. So who are you to presume you are higher than God to believe there is no God. As if the world runs in disorder. God brings Order to disorder. You disagree with his order. And you don't allow people who do make stupid decisions and selfish mistakes to own them and you discourage people from allowing God to heal people who find themselves suffering from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@PHXGirl23,
"So who are you to presume you are higher than God to believe there is no God"
I do not believe and no atheist could believe they are higher than a god. A god would need to exist for atheists to be higher than it.
What you say is utterly silly and reminds me of those arguments that claim I hate a god.
"God brings Order to disorder. You disagree with his order."
False. I do not disagree with any order alleged to be by a god. I disagree that there is a god at all.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr Once you are make aware of God, that is when the whole game changes. Once you reject God because well.. you like living in denial, you don't like God telling you want to do, you don't feel like changing, (a 1000 other reasons people use to justify their non-belief), God leaves you to your delusions. You just magnify your unbelief by your own doing. So if no one has told you yet, I will, it is very bibically based, that your unblief is magnified to allow you to experience life without God.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
@gklr Then in, when most of your life has passed away, something in your life will get your attention.& that is when God will allow u2 see what you have been in denial in for most of your life. u can either choose now 2 say, Hey wait a minute, am I really rejecting God by my attitude, or u can allow God 2find u as ur scraping the bottom of the bucket of life, in some toxic situation u find urself in. God hates the proud & once u come into real knowlege of him, that's when ur attitude changes.
PHXGirl23 8 months ago
If someone lacks hair, he does not have hair. Nothing to do with believing in hair.
If someone lacks faith, he does not have any.
Faith in this case is faith in the existence of God.
Thus having faith is believing that god is real.
Not having, lacking faith is not believing that god is real.
Or more simply put, lacking belief is not believing.
And guess what, you cannot be a theist and an atheist all at once.
One means that you think that there's a higher force, and the other that there isn't.
doloreg 1 year ago
@doloreg "One means that you think that there's a higher force, and the other that there isn't."
That's but one single definitions. There are others, e.g. "one means that you think that deity X exists, and the other that there isn't". By this definition, all people are atheists, because all people lack belief in thousands of deities, or "higher powers", in which other people believe, or have believed. Of course, stating that everyone is an atheist takes the meaning out of the word (continues)
Pomme843 11 months ago
@Pomme843 You misundersttod my definition. when i said belief in a higher force, i meant *any* higher force, and when i said lack of belief in a higher force, i meant *all* kinds of higher force. Hope that clears it up
doloreg 11 months ago
This is a very good video Jack. I am glad I watched it. Obviously I was wrong in assuming your reasons for asking if you are an atheist. If you recall, I originally assumed it was due to "knowing and not believing there is a god". Perhaps that is another argument for another time.
What I found unsettling to see in this video was your passion. I am not sure if I liked that or not. Interesting to be sure. Why so much passion? I can't get that worked up about too much anymore. But for this?
gklr 1 year ago
@SuperFeimer,
Too bad then that a lack of belief does not exist.
gklr 1 year ago
I believe there may be a god and at the same time, I believe there may not be a god. These coinciding yet opposite ideas can be described as lacking a belief in gods because I lack the necessary proof to accept either as true. After all, a belief is an idea that a person accepts as true.
"Lack belief" is a simplified version of "I accept the proposal that a god or gods may exist but lack the necessary proof to accept or deny the truth of existence of a god or gods."
legendsofatheria 1 year ago
@legendsofatheria,
Prove you lack belief in a god.
Prove a lack of belief exists.
Fail 1. Fail 2. Go back to bed.
gklr 1 year ago
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@gklr Did you read the full comment, troll?
""Lack belief" is a simplified version of "I accept the proposal that a god or gods may exist but lack the necessary proof to accept or deny the truth of existence of a god or gods.""
legendsofatheria 1 year ago
@gklr Tht is full of so much fail. You obviously have no grasp of the topic. First, you don't get burden of proof at all it would appear. And secondly you can not ask for proof of my personal disbelief. It's MY disbelief, I am telling you I lack belief, It is proven. You can not enter my brain and find faith inside of me.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin.
No belief has a burden of proof because no belief is or can be true. Beliefs are not truths. This is one of the first things I tell theists. "Your beliefs are not truths". Having to remind alleged atheists the same thing is terrible.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr That's just ridiculous. Of course the existence of God is a belief. But now you're forcing to argue as a Theist, because obviously any belief can become a truth. How do you think we have come to discover all of the facts and truths in this universe. They were all beliefs at one time. Man, you really think you're an amazing intellectual, but you sure don't think things through before you speak.
TheBananamanAssassin 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin,
I can ask for proof of anything that someone claims is true. If true, prove it. All truths must be proven. No belief can be proven.
Disbelief is the belief something is false.
"You can not enter my brain and find faith inside of me."
"t's MY disbelief, I am telling you I lack belief, It is proven. You can not enter my brain and find faith inside of me"
Contradictory, nonsensical and disconnected rambling.
Disbelief is belief a claim is false, a faith.
gklr 8 months ago
@TheBananamanAssassin,
You cannot prove you lack belief in a god, so saying so is a belief statement. Saying you lack belief says nothing about you. There is no such thing as a lack of belief as a thing. Atheism is a thing, it exists and is something. A lack of belief doesn't exist, there is no such thing.
You attempt to refer to something that doesn't exist and call it atheism. Utter nonsense and proof you don't know what atheism is.
gklr 8 months ago
When proposed, the idea of a supernatural being may be accepted. If the proposal is rejected one would say "I don't believe in gods" or possibly, "I believe there are no gods." Some may accept the idea of a god and when that being is defined, the truthfulness of the definition is accepted or rejected dependent on ones own choice.
When rejecting a defined god, one isn't necessarily rejecting the "idea" of a god.
Continued.....
legendsofatheria 1 year ago
There are many determining factors to the god proposal.
1) There is a god. a) This god created all b) This god wants you to obey it c) This god has given us a book of it's laws
First the idea of a god is proposed. Then the god is defined. Deeper definitions require more proof to satisfy a persons inquiry in order to accept the definition as true.
Generic definition of a god: A being with supernatural powers.
This definition encompasses your god.
Continued......
legendsofatheria 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i lack a non-belief in God
DarknessEats 1 year ago
Youtube atheism is embarrassing. Nice video Jack. Your still making a mistake though. What i do not believe in does not define me.
I don;t believe in Gods. Am I an atheist or an agnostic? With only that information to work with, the question cannot be answered. Then clarity then is still missing.
sashajw1234 1 year ago
@sashajw1234 Agnosticism deals with knowlege and atheism deals with belief. So technically we are all both, unless someone believes in every god ever created, in which case they would be a theistic agnostic. When in comes to gods, belief is more important than knowlege, since absolutely no one knows whether there is a god. Belief is what motivates people,discussing Agnosticism in pointless when talking about belief because it doesn't answer the question "Do you believe?".
JesusTheNonTheist 1 year ago
@sashajw1234 The only possible answers to the belief question are Atheism, the lack of belief in gods, Deism, the belief that a god created the universe and does not interfere, and Theism, the belief in a god a interferes in our affairs. So those calling themselves Agnostic-Atheists or Agnostic-Theists(never heard of one calling themselves that) can remove the "Agnostic" label since no one knows.
JesusTheNonTheist 1 year ago
@JesusTheNonTheist 'Agnosticism deals with knowlege and atheism deals with belief'
Agnosticism is formed around a belief concerning the amount of knowledge held concerning god(s)
It is not a literal statement of fact. Unless ofcourse you can prove that all minds which currently exist have no knowledge of any real god object. I believe you can't do it but if you can. I'm all ears.
sashajw1234 1 year ago
@sashajw1234 Knowlege of something means essentially that you know for a FACT. I KNOW that 1+1=2, it is a fact. And no one has demostrated to me that they know there is a god. No one has ever provided sufficient evidence that there is a god, so I feel pretty safe not believing. I cannot demostrate that no one for sure knows of a god, but no one has provided evidence in a god, so until that happens I won't believe. Atheism is also not a literal statement of fact, which you alluded to.
JesusTheNonTheist 1 year ago
@JesusTheNonTheist "Atheism is also not a literal statement of fact, which you alluded to."
Atheism is the belief there are no gods. No belief is a statement of truth. Atheists like my self understand we could be wrong but are comfortable believing there are no gods. Agnostics have a suspended judgement because of their belief they can't know.
' I cannot demostrate that no one for sure knows of a god'
THey why did you blanket everyone as agnostic when you don't know if they are?
sashajw1234 1 year ago