The Rise and Fall of Leni Riefenstahl

[kokonoe100]

The documentary of Leni Riefenstahl was telecasted on the television in Japan in September this year.

To assumption that she is a cooperator of Nazis, and the criticism

I think that cooperating in Nazis in warfare at that time was a usual doing

Anyway, her "Victory of the intention" is wonderful, and an art of forming.

[xingsheng1]

As a Chinese fan, I worship the ground she walked on.

A genius, 50 years ahead of her time.

[shadowbikerox]

why does Hitler hate the Jews that much? And who is Lenin?

[btown2011]

what is the song used, anyone know?

[FilmMiracle]

@btown2011 during which part?

[btown2011]

@FilmMiracle 18 seconds

[btown2011]

@FilmMiracle At :18 seconds and :54 seconds

[tpsantos]

@btown2011 Clair de lune

[bearcub410]

good film maker horrible person , .

[SpaceCowboy641]

@bearcub410 I like this charming person !!!

[ken42b]

actually Leni DID do movies after the war, one called "Tiefland" in the 50s on an African tribe, and one in 2002 (!) about underwater life. But it is true, she had planned to do more movies, but met great resistance from the people (German and international). The wikipedia page is quite explicit on it, in case youre interested.

[MooCrumpus]

She was misled, and naive. Guilty.

[Danny022479]

RIP Leni...Your work will never be forgotten. Such a shame, your film was made way before the war and you still were treated like a wrongly. Your place is among the stars.

[schusterlehrling]

@Danny022479

She let others like Willy Zielke do the filming, cutting and dirrecting and when he finally demanded his rights, he was sent into a madhouse, castrated and threatend with death if he did not continue to work for her.

I would never call this a rigth treatment.

She stole authorship and maybe even abused those who were the authors.

Shame that she was sentenced for this.

[40172]

Substitute name Obama for Hitler's name and what is happening to the USA makes sense!

[cactaceous]

@40172 Yes of course, that makes sense. Because Obama is massacring millions of Jews, Gypsies, Blacks & the poor. He is on his way to systematically killing more than ten million people. I see what you mean because he is on his way to attacking and conquering all Countries around the USA, from Canada to Argentina. Yes, yes. You dear stranger are brainwashed and should get your head out of your ass. Comparing Hitler to Obama is a tactic that is not only vile but ignorant, evil and disrespectful.

[legbider]

@cactaceous Are you serious? No way is Obama hurting Jews, for they are

the "chosen people" [biblically] who RULE the USA!

GET ISRAEL OUT OF US GOVT! and there WILL be peace on earth.

[kolbpilot]

A movie should be made about Her.

[N9OOR11]

Viva Hitler :)

[hARZ6]

Wie viele hatte Hitler auch sie beeindruckt, und es war ihr auch was ihre karriere anging sehr förderlich

[martinfelge]

Sie nutzte einfach die Möglichkeit aus, die sich durch die Zusammenarbeit mit der NSDAP ergab. Ich denke, dass sie von Adolf Hitler fasziniert war, wie die meisten anderen Deutschen auch. Sie hat durch ihre Arbeit dazu beigetragen, dass die Nazi-propaganda ihre Wirkung getan hat! Ob sie Mitschuld hat, kann ich nicht bewerten. Sie hat aber auch andere Menschen für ihren Erfolg benutzt und das finde ich sehr negativ! Trotzdem ist sie eine sehr interessante Person!

[cobrachoppergirl]

Leni didn't make the Nationalist Socialist Movement, she just filmed what was happening in Germany at the time. That's all she did, and applied her artistic talents in the process to make a provocative film and the best film she could make. To think otherwise, is simply idiocy. But then, if you've lived in the world long enough, you know the world is slap full of idiots, just as high a percentage today as there was back when National Socialism swept out of control.

[giowillis]

Nonsense. She is a great director but your statement is really silly.

[LiberatorWaveV1]

another idiot brainwashed by another propaganda ......

[LiberatorWaveV1]

Congrats Mister FimMiracle, your intro is marvelous .

0:55 anyone knows the title of this soundtrack ?

[vyyn]

@LiberatorWaveV1

thats a soundtrack from "Der Heilige Berg" (The Holy Mountain). A Movie with Riefenstahl from 1926.

[LiberatorWaveV1]

Thank you Vyyn :-)

[antimatterXXXIII]

@PalinMcCotter2012 Only an equivalently piggish person could be anything but disgusted by TOTW - a film named by Hitler himself, a self-justifying narcissistic scream at the center of decency in the world. Comparing this Nazi pig to say Kubrick or Hitchcock is a fucking joke.

[sportsmediaamerica]

This is a nice video. For once, it is a piece about LR that presents her views without editorializing about how she must have been a horrible person. I think she was, like almost every German, excited at the prospect that her country might make a comeback after the devastation of WWI. That is necessary perspective whenever considering her work.

[FilmMiracle]

Thank you :) I just wanted to present her as a person.  I didn't want to be biased in anyway.

[wolfgang911]

@FilmMiracle That is not correct. Your way of editing is charging here unnecessarily. When she speaks about labour and peace message you show the SS marching. You coudl have shown the boyscouts, the harvesting, the beautiful countryside, the spontaneaous joyful faces.It is your choice biaising her words.

[FilmMiracle]

@wolfgang911 I think you are making your own correlations to the images. My intent was to never juxtapose her words of peace and freedom with the SS as if to be ironic or something. That just happens to be the footage I decided to follow up with her speech.

[antimatterXXXIII]

@sportsmediaamerica I wonder how she felt about witnessing the murder of Poles in 1939, or being close friends with Julius Streicher. We'll never know how she really felt, because she was a complete and inveterate liar, who justified herself to herself right up to the bitter (I hope) end. She was a monster, a genius yes, but like Wagner, an awful narcissistic pig.

[sportsmediaamerica]

Okay, you're right: Every single German who was alive during the Third Reich was a monster. Even the kids. Or, many people were hoping their country was making a comeback, and were not responsible for the heinous decisions that were made. John Ford made propaganda films for the U.S. during WWII. Riefenstahl did it for Germany. I see her as caught in the vortex.

[antimatterXXXIII]

Don't be a sophist. I said LR was a pig and she is a pig - she lived a pig and died a lying, self-justifying, Nazi apologist pig.

[sportsmediaamerica]

Sophist? Well, at least you admit I'm clever. TOTW was filmed as documentary and became known as propaganda. As things turned out, it WAS propaganda. But it was also filmed in 1934, more than five years before the invasion of Poland. Are you claiming that she knew what Hitler and his henchmen were going to do to Germany and the world? I think not.

[antimatterXXXIII]

Any person with a tenth of a brain could infer what was coming. She was close friends with Streicher, the rabid race-baiter of "Der Stuermer". She slept her way into the good graces of the Nazi heirarchy, She played these fools like a fiddle - she was not only of this time, she WAS this time - and in her we have the most telling proof that Nazism was no aberration, but the actual will of the German people. Indeed, that is the hidden meaning of the film - the will to annihilation by the mediocre.

[sportsmediaamerica]

So now she's a whore? Ah, the refuge of last resort. Not just Hitler's propagandist but Hitler's WHORE-propagandist. No one ever said Nazism was an aberration. There have been many evil regimes in history, and people like her get caught up in them. Alas, you are, for whatever reason, bitter about something that happened 75 years ago, and nothing can change TOTW's power as a film.

[antimatterXXXIII]

Do a search on the article "Reich Star" that appeared in the NYT a couple of years ago. Enjoy.

Actually, there have NOT been "many evil regimes" in history, which seems to be yet another Nazi apologia (as if one evil regime excuses another). Well, these are mediocre times, made for mediocre men. Anyway I'm done with this pseudo-discussion. As for great film-making? I barely got through it. Worse than Merchant-Ivory.

[sportsmediaamerica]

No one with a brain expects objectivity from the NYT. And who, except you, says one evil regime excuses another? Furthermore, only an idiot would miss the point about the movie's power. It's not conventionally great filmmaking, and serious critics know this. But, of course, that's not the point. I suspect that you find a Nazi apologist under every rock, but the fact is that many people simply do not agree with you. You also use insults to bolster your rhetoric. Hitler would've been proud.

[antimatterXXXIII]

Leni: The life and work of Leni Riefenstahl, by Steven Bach - read it. Ciao.

[turuu214]

@sportsmediaamerica ha. those evil germans got what they deserved.

[christopherkoelsch]

@sportsmediaamerica Thank you for that unbiased comment. Always believed she was an incredible artist separated from her period. What a talent that was wasted and will be missed.

[christopherkoelsch]

@sportsmediaamerica Thank you for that unbiased comment. Always believed she was an incredible artist separated from her period. What a talent that was unfulfilled and will be missed.

[PAPASTHEGREAT]

she was a good example of nazi propaganda she was a nazi seperatist and a hughe fan of adolf hitler otherise she never suport this regime and all this nonsense of she never know bla blabla she was in the frontline 1939 when war starts she saw dead jewish people in a small polnish village fackt is she run away of consequenses like all old nazis she never sayd sorry about 6 million dead juwes and sinti roma she produce a movie where this poeple taken from the deadcamps and put there for statistik.

[Rico8458]

she was another german genius

[ruzickaw]

the strange thing is that Leni won a gold medal with her Nazi film in Paris.

Why did the French put her into a camp

after the war? Was she first a good woman and a few years later a bad one?

[deja2049]

i hope to God that all the positive energy

put into electing the current us president

does not turn out to be a great disillusionment with a charismatic leader who promised one thing and delivered the opposite. leni's story shows how

a good soul can be drawn to the power of the dark side of the force. if she was possessed by such overt fascism is it

nort possible that we could be manipulated by a wolf in sheeps clothing?

i pay this leader is a noble soul not a

counterfeit messiah.

[andresisthename]

Is it possible that we could be manipulated by a wolf in sheeps clothing? That dark art form is called religion! And as for the president that promise something and delivered the opposite we don't need to go back to Leni for an example we look to George W Bush and the millions of idiots that vote for him.

[HokiesAndDawgs]

Actually, we look at the idiots that voted for Obama.

'He who gains the youth, controls the future.' - Adolf Hitler

Each and every single day a new indoctrination video pops up with school kids praising Obama....frightening.

Enjoy your one term president....he'll be voted out in 2012.

[fosbury68]

Please don't compare President Obama to Hitler. It's absurd.

[HokiesAndDawgs]

'He who gains the youth, controls the future.' - Adolf Hitler

Not as absurd as you think given that a new video of school kids singing about Obama pops up daily. Same thing happend under Hitler.

[fosbury68]

since when is singing a crime?

[HokiesAndDawgs]

In our country, we have a free republic. Kids aren't supposed to be forced to do things for political purposes...meaning, sing.

[masterch101]

its cannon rock its on my favorites to watch it im not messing

[braveandtall]

she was a nazi with lots of nazi money and lots of free labor. Get a grip!

[xixtretamil]

She was a genius, and I bet deep inside she was proud of the movie, she was a great filmmaker, made a brilliant piece of film and should be proud of it. Like she said, she would have made the same movie in Moscow or in America.

[carinhall1]

Leni Riefenstahl hat tolle Filme gemacht.Ihre Ideen der Kameraeinstellungen werden bis heute nachgemacht.

[LiberatorWave]

I disagree about the message of Triumph des Willens,

I agreed for the work in the message, but the peace is representated by the threat of a powerful military parade who frigthen the other european peoples .

That's already a part of the psychological war of Hitler and Goebbels.

How can be not afraid by a film like that when you are french for exemple in 1934 ....

Triumph des willens is a master piece .

And a psychological weapon of the very first order.

[somhack]

I'm not sure I can see peace in this film.

Maybe by showing the German army.

But I can't.

All I see is armies surely looking like Julius's one. It makes me think only of Roma and all those emperor/kaiser things.

[LiberatorWave]

Yes you're right my dear !

It is one of the apsect of this film, in the set up and in the parade, we can feel that .

I can understand that Leny felt that about her production, but in the mind of Hitler what was the real goal....? (COMMENT TU VAS ??)lol

[melisaschilliro]

I am looking for an interview to Riefenstahl produced by john musilli and written by chodorov.

[Nationell]

She did not want the jews killed even back then, that was probably only the wish of the higher ranks.

[Charline88]

Such a great , talented woman.

[robojoshua]

hi you said in your film that leni was in a french concentration camp for four years. Where did you get that information? I can't find it. I'm writing an essay on her life. Please let me know. Thanks.

[FilmMiracle]

I believe I got that information from the documentary that I used footage from. The title is under the description. It is a great source if you're doing anything on Leni. I hope that helped.

[SabuPtolemy]

Leni was a great filmmaker - too bad her talents were exploited by one of the most evil regimes in the history of the world. She sure managed to make German fascism look as something other than what it was in 'Triumph of the Will'.

[MRW142]

The Allies never intended to "free" Germany, and they never did...Stalin murdered two Million Germans AFTER the war - in times of "peace".

____________

Half right. The Allies made a grave mistake not sending Stalin the way of Hitler; they should have listened to Patton's admonition. But you're not telling the whole story, they freed a good portion of Germany and Western Europe. Because they didn't set ALL free for various and sundry geopolitical reasons doesn't mean they did nothing.

[almo3]

foucking nazi/

[happycow123]

Leni, you were a true artist. Your work is absolutely brilliant. How sad that you were stigmatized and not allowed to continue making films after the war.

[bumbsher]

Amen! OrchidMorphine1

[scotpens]

Remember, Captain Kirk had been fighting Klingons throughout his entire Starfleet career. The "old school" (pre-Next Generation) Klingons were a violent, war-loving, savage, unscrupulous race, whose totalitarian Empire was ruled by brute force. And Klingons were responsible for the death of Kirk's only son. So cut the man some slack!

[scotpens]

Interestingly, in the original series, the Romulans were the "good" bad guys. Although ruthless and warlike, they had admirable qualities like honor, dignity and devotion to duty. After the Federation-Klingon alliance, the Klingons and Romulans seem to have switched roles.

[Charline88]

Briliant artist, talented and sensible woman. I truly believe she's honest in what she says, it's true that when you watch all the films she made there was nothing shocking. She made no movie promoting the extermination of jews or anything and she must have had tough times being rejected and insulted by narrow minded and simplistic people.

Im just proud my country, France, protected her and placed her under curatelle after war as asked by the allies. She could have been killed without it.

[deltango12345]

Manny countries practicised crimes against humanity, during wwII, including Japan [mainly in China]. The point is that the winners usually don't talk about their crimes. And that is a nonsense because an action being classified as a crime against humanity shouldn't depend on the side that wins the war.

[Dez1964]

I sign below Deltatango! Staline did kill more people that Hitler, however there are comunist parties all over europe. They were in the winners side, so everything was made witha propose... Fu_king comunists! I feel sorry that Hitler did had time to take care of them all! What a waste!

[deltango12345]

By the way, where is the criticism on the movies that glorify all allied actions during WWII? Was it necessary to put 2 atomic bombs over Japan? Was it necessary, with Germany already on its knees, to bomb Dresden (30000 civiliens died)? This seems to me more important than a movie. Or is it not?

[FilmMiracle]

"Was it necessary to put 2 atomic bombs over Japan?"

It definitely was. United States was tired of fighting and the last thing they wanted to do was continue fighting. To avoid another huge bloody conflict with Mainland Japan and the loss of more allied soldiers they did what they had to do. The 2nd bomb could have been avoided if Japan surrendered after the first bomb was dropped.

[deltango12345]

It was good that Japan surrendered, after all. Otherwise, following your justification, the US would keep droping atomic bombs until that moment come.

Let me tell you: this seems pretty unreasonable.

[FilmMiracle]

Yes it was good Japan surrendered. Japan would have fought to the end otherwise if the atomic bombs weren't dropped.

[deltango12345]

Yes, and Us would keep fighting until Japan's surrendering. These problems are really difficult.

But not everything is bad. There are some handy shortcuts like "lets kill 100000 civiliens in 10 seconds". Problem solved.

Let me tell you: this seems pretty unreasonable.

[FilmMiracle]

Better than half those casualties being Americans I would say.

[deltango12345]

Well, that is a poor piece of maths, my friend. For two reasons. On one side, considering the migrations an mixing of people, perhaps 100000 japanese would be ancestrals of much more than 50000 americans. On the other side, that kind of "human life trade" as the strange tendency to produce too many "ground zero like" places in the planet.

[sp33kz]

You're seeing this in a vacuum devoid of what the Japanese did to the Allies. They tortured, enslaved and starved thousand of prisoners despite the Geneva conventions. Ever heard of a Death March?

[LeonhardMunich]

You are right in some point. But have you ever heard of Guantanamo or Abu Graib?

The US cannot claim to always have the truth on it´s side. They did a good job to free the world from those criminal systems in japan or germany. But I really doubt that the atimic bombs were the only or the best solution to end the war in japan. There maybe could have been a demonstration in an area without civilians.

[noirkiss3]

The biggest irony of Japanese war crimes is that they used water boarding and we protested its tortuous ways, now we are the war criminals using the technique.

[LeonhardMunich]

rather strange point of view I would say...

Wonder what people of iraque would have to answer to this narrow political view..

[medamine39]

Americans should've bombed Emperor's Palace and Tojo's Home rather than Innocent people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[deltango12345]

The work of Leni is a true splendor [Olympia].I would like to know how many persons in 1936 did see The Triumph of the Will. Was it that influent? Wouldn't nazism exist without it?

[dorianrayn]

Summing up the decades of "punishment" that Leni Riefenstahl endured, film critic and historian Richard Corliss stated in a 2003 Time article :

"There are several reasons...one is that it is just too good a movie, too potent, too mesmerizing.

Another is her visual style - heroic, sensuous.

Finally, she was a woman, a beautiful woman."

[bobbeth6]

We should detest her politics, even more so when you imagine that although a complicit Nazi sympathizer, she looked at the National Socialists in with an altogether simple and naive mind. She never joined the party to my knowledge, but was totally caught up in the spectacle and cult-like Fuhrer worship culture that she herself help to create. So much the more disturbing, that such an intelligent woman would be give in to power of state cultism.

[Athomahawk]

The facts, denied by Riefenstahl since the war, are that she made Triumph of the Will with unlimited facilities and unstinting official cooperation. Indeed, Riefenstahl was, as she relates in the short book about the making of Triumph of the Will, in on the planning of the rally—which was from the start conceived as the set of a film spectacle.

-Susan Sontag

So she really was complicit entirely. A look at her earlier films illustrates this clearly.

Peace

[mpc6857]

Leni Riefenstahl was a visionary, what a classic piece of cinematographic history the 1936 Olympics are, if she hadnot filmed this occasion, what would we have known of the era of Nazism ? Hats off to Leni, thank you for making history so interesting and lasting.

[mpc6857]

Top woman, what a privileged position she was in,I dont understand the Fall in this scene, surely she was just a fortunate person to have had the vision to record history ?

[TMCA]

THIEF!!!

I don't get it. You edit together a 10 minute version of "The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl" and call it your own???? At least give credit for where you got all the footage.

[FilmMiracle]

Thief? What am I stealing? Of course this is my documentary, I made it, and of course this isn't my own footage anyone with half a bird's brain can figure that out. Did you see how I credited myself? "Cut By Jason Sikorsky" as in edited. This is Youtube not National History Day I don't have to cite my sources. Why don't you go bug every other person on this site about "citing their sources."

[Athomahawk]

Apparently editing isn't creative enough. GG Nazis.

[postrugani]

There is not a rise and fall of Leni;

there is a fall of George W. Bush - one false nazi fuehrer, a false copy, an idiot.

Kill Bush.

[caeruleus12]

Simply a fascinating woman of creative genius. An original artist of the moving image. We owe her a grand applause whether you like her or not. Imagine her profiling the glory of Rome and Greece if such technologies had existed at that time. Such visual material would have amazing to look at. Ms. Riefenstahl: Augustus would have been proud of you.

[maestro214]

Every time there is a text card in this film, the writer incorrectly writes Nazi's instead of Nazis. Sloppy editing. Discredits the film.

[FilmMiracle]

well thanks for your concert, sorry you didn't enjoy it.

[FilmMiracle]

concern*

[PPFH]

congrats to mr. sikorsky, by retrieve the memory of leni. we have take into consideration the greatness of documentary, by the lenz of the revolutionary techniques showed by leni during the making of triumph of the will. Hitler and their batch are expandables. Leni is truly sincere when she said that she knew the aftermaths of this work she will never be done it. RIP leni

[judenfrey]

Tallented Person

[arafat76]

respect

[clamadofas]

se ponía calentona con el Führer

[ty88881]

Fucking ugly mature bitch.

[ty88881]

Fuck that bitch.

She is like a witch.

She is a old whore.

She is a fucking paramour.

U guyz Forget this slut. This is very old and classical harlot.

[fatuesque]

You're a fucking weirdo.Keep your sick depraved mind to yourself in future.

[nuworldorder]

The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victim to a great lie than to a small one. The liberal media and propaganda has created the greatest of lies and alienated true Europeans and their national pride. Now foreign nationals are the darling of the enemy, now they are my enemy....

[ConservativeDemocrat]

Burn in hell you lying, cowardly old Nazi bitch.

[FilmMiracle]

lmao, true

[gardnyc]

Read the biographies about her---she started spinning her story immediately after the war. She lied and lied until the day she died. The documents started to emerge only very late, and showed how she was Hitler's pet, reporting directly to him. She craved fame and adoration and was very proud for a long time about this film.  She may not have been in the Party, but she was clearly aware of the beginning of the anti-Judism, and the content of Mein Kampf.

[nuworldorder]

Foreign nationals have invaded Europe denigrating its society. National Socialism is a must in Europe to preserve its people and to expel foreign nationals. Jews have once again rose to power in Europe and cities are overrun with radical Muslims and North Africans. Liberal media and pacifist ideology must be crushed and replaced with national urgency that the preservation of storied culture with its long history is being lost forever.

[lewisdutton65]

this woman was highly talented, a horrible person and a remarkable liar

[jampt1989]

She was an amazing artist, i feel sorry for her, however she had great admoration for Hitler, and she did read Mein Kampf before she met him. It's easy to watch "Triumph of the Will" now and label it Propaganda because we know the horrors of the regime.

[lewisdutton65]

it was always propaganda - are you a moron!

[jampt1989]

Yes i am a moron for spreading my opinion. I would say only the first part of the movie was propaganda...that was the true deification.

[jampt1989]

At the time people had amazing admoration for Hitler and it was a document of a rally. Of course there are questionable scenes...like the close-up displays of the classic Aryan youths. You can't deny that its value for propaganda increased after the holocaust. She is just so obsessed by her art that it crushes her ability to have moral dimension. Besides, as she said, "How can you tell who will assure us the right sort of future?"

[rozsdaspeti]

A victim of political correctness and of a blatant double standard. I grew up in Hungary, where Communist "artists" are still allowed to work. People who wrote poems celebrating Stalin, a much more proliphic murderer than Hitler, received beautiful obituaries in the 90s. What a shame...

[lewisdutton65]

what artists in Hungary wrote poems celebrating Stalin?

[rozsdaspeti]

I meant poets of course. The most notorious one was a guy called Istvan Eorsi whose earlier poems were forgotten after he reinvented himself as a democrat. The current prime minister of the country is the former boss of the Communist youth league. Can you imagine a Hitler Youth guy as a West German Chancellor after the war?

[poetworm]

poor Leni. she was only an artist, goddamn it, not a NAZI! i mean, she even said herself she wasn't proud of the film, and was SINCERE ABOUT IT!!! she was truly ahead of her time. Triumph Des Willens is one of the most powerful and captivating films i have ever seen.

[Moldova]

I would say she was firmly OF her time. To claim otherwise she would have to have done something so extraordinary that her ideas or talents were unappreciated in her time or had no bearing in the world she was a part of. The opposite, of course, is the truth. She was a poor political thinker and a bad philosopher, hardly "ahead" of any movement. She was as influenced as she was influential.

[Moldova]

She fit so nicely into the era -- both in art and politics -- that I can't think of anyone who would be considered MORE a product of their time. That term -- being ahead of one's time -- is overused and typically grossly off the mark. As for being sincere: what the hell do you know? Sorry -- but seriously. You're hardly qualified to make such a claim. Who is?

[Leniriefenstahl2003]

iys very sad she wasnot allow to make more movies after the war ,someyime it show who really control this planet

[dmurdo1]

Mediocre camera work even for the time, the real 'talent' was Albert Speer and like a lot of Germans of her generation willing to support the Nazi regime as long it went Germanys way. Facinating film documentary though.

[FilmMiracle]

thank you very much...kudos to leni for her film and conducting those interviews!

[DannyMadScientist]

Riefenstahl's story has always interested me. I saw Triumph without subtitles. As much as I despise what went on, it is naive to say Triumph is a bad film. Good work compiling this. Curious, however, of your source materials. It would be interesting seeing your derivations.

[radlam64]

Heil Reifenstahl! Triumph of the Will.

[esix31]

A great artist in the wrong place at the wrong time. Interesting how an artwork can go from being an international award-winning documentary to something largely disdained as propaganda -- all because the Nazis lost, and became subject to condemnation from the winners.

[Moldova]

That's not necessarily true. Had the Nazis won, the world today would obviously be unrecognizable on many fronts, but that doesn't mean the kind of hate and intolerance they preached (and acted on) would still be considerable appropriate. In America, the film The Birth of a Nation was also a cinematic triumph and hailed in its day, but Americans today, despite not losing anything to seriously alter our culture, despise the general message of that film. Look at civil rights.

[esix31]

Your "Birth of a Nation" example does not work because -- like the Nazis -- the Klu Klux Klan ultimately lost and was discredited in America. It's difficult to forecast the end result of something that didn't happen. Who knows, had the Nazis won, perhaps the world would have become an even more reactionary and repressive place.

[Moldova]

My analogy works fine -- yours doesn't, and in fact just supports the point I was trying to make. The Nazis are no longer relevant because they were beaten and their political foundation was destroyed in one big swoop. The KKK lost relevancy as time marched on, as a result of the changing social culture in America. And that was my point: Had the Nazi's won, there is no reason to think that the messages expressed in this film would be praised and not condemned, as you suggested.

[Moldova]

My KKK example shows that nations don't have to lose a major war with major social implications to change their social culture. That was my point, and you haven't refuted it. Do you think if the Confederacy had won, then we'd still have slaves? I certainly don't (but that prediction is also not the point).

[esix31]

You seem to argue that time itself ushers in enlightenment and some greater tolerance and cultural good. And again, you picked two defeated scrap heaps (Nazis and Confederacy)to support this wobbly contention. Do you truly believe regimes like the Taliban would ever tolerate this progression toward enlightenment absent military defeat or overthrow? Time may alter all, but whether that alteration embraces evil or enlightenment cannot be truly predicted.

[scotpens]

Even more significantly, if the Nazis had won World War II, there'd be no starship Enterprise and no Captain Kirk! Remember "City of the Edge of Forever"?

[MASSARENOS]

If the Nazis have won the war they will build Star Destroyers. There'd will be no starship Enterprise, but the Star Destroyer Adolf Hitler.

[Moldova]

Cultures advance and change, and that fact doesn't necessarily hinge on any great political shifts, just time. Intolerance has historically ALWAYS been temporary. There's no reason to think that had the Nazis won, thought advancement and cultural progression would have been indefinitely stifled.

[ErikGJensen]

Maybe that's why Napoleon said;

"There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the long run, the sword will always be conquered by the spirit"

[fabian456]

You did a great job with your short film !

[FilmMiracle]

thanks man! its appreciated

[superquino]

great artist...she lived her time, let her be in peace now

[Mainakke]

Great artist , rotten time

[bearcub410]

a great talent and a rotten person

[boralioglu]

confessions of a dangerous mind

[sabrifriechman]

a great artist