It is expensive to build a commercial unit. The first 75 MW unit will cost in the range of $600 million, but will produce 600 million KWH of base load electricity per year for around 30 years. Some components will last much longer. This will be cost competitive as long as oil stays above $60 per barrel.
@TJPlocek so lets say you find someone who is willing to invest a few billion dollars into this project, when would you be able to start building them and what do you estimate how long it would take until they could be put to use?
Can part of the cold water be used in a circulating system for aquaculture of cold water fish or other organisms, in the island? I think it can be possible and it would be a good side bussiness, since cold water fish are more exportable and have more demand. Any studies for that?
Aquaculture is one of the valuable long term co-products. A 100 MW OTEC Unit would produce enough deep ocean nutrient to produce about 70 TONS per day of shellfish meat based on studies done on St. Croix in the 1970s. About half of all the wild caught fish in the ocean is caught where there are natural upwellings. If OTEC discharge is kept in the photropic zone, it would replicate natural upwelling. See our web site presentations for more info.
It's very material-intensive and therefore also oil-inensive to build. of course such large structures need maintainance which also doesn't come easy. But at least it's a start to think more sustainable.
John R. Christy has been accused of recanting his position that climate change is neither Anthropogenic nor Catastrophic, but he didn’t. He used two independent data sets, weather balloon and satellite for his findings. (see links in my about me) Later he only stated that there was some anthropogenic impact that could not be predicted 100 years out, but that what we’re doing was good for the plants.
1 /2 Obama stop offshore drilling until it was reinstated. This could cause a $5 a gallon increase, because we would grow dependent upon foreign nations we are not allies with in order to provide our oil. Cap and Trade (American Power Act) would increase gas prices increase by $2.58 a gallon according to George C. Marshall Institute& taxes on the average household up to $3200 according to the RNC Foreign countries price gouge w/ gas prices to $10/gal!.
This should be don e in PR, it would greatly improve its energy efficiency and people wouldnt have to endure this bad electrical company that does shit, I think this would be in PRs best interest.
Free energy technology exists!But the big oil corporations don't want that technology revealed,Find this technology at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Be the revolution!
DHow do you ever come to the conclusion Walter that this type of generation of energy would stuff up the natural heat distribution of the ocean. All it is really is a gigantic float that simply has an internal system just as a human body does. But a human body or large metal one will not change the oceans heat distributions.
@tanya2horses It is theoretically possible to change the ocean currents if the thermal balance is changed. However, the change due to OTEC will be very much less than the changes occurring from natural upwelling. Furthermore, monitoring of the initial thousand or so units will permit modeling that could predict any major changes. Any effects could be reversed by simply shutting down units as they get to the end of their life or sooner if it was required.
The goverment of Puerto Rico is to dumb to think about something like this and is more dumb to take it to action. Fortuño think about it; we will save money on employes, and there be more problems with the aaa employes. I'm puertorican and I live in Puerto Rico just in case.
The Puerto Rican Water Company is one of the largest users of electricity in Puerto Rico. Water does not move by itself through pipes or purification plants. It requires electricity to operate pumps and other equipment. The water company has been looking into renewable sources for some of its electrical needs. duh
@claudio249347a This is already being done commercially as geothermal electric generation and home heating. Recent problems have occurred when drilling in unstable areas with creation of earthquakes.
I can just see it now, we harness energy from the water currents and consequently fuck up the weather systems.. by damaging earths' natural heat distribution mechanisms..
however far fetched that sounds, remember humans always multiply until every natural resource is consumed...
@walter0bz Your concerns are valid, but most destruction occurs under poverty conditions. Greater prosperity tends to bring more environmental protection and concern for sustainability. Overuse of any resource can lead to disaster. OTEC may moderate hurricanes and global warming.
Ha, what a joke. You and I know that as long as there are trillions to be made in the oil business this efficient way to generate electricity is going to be just an animation and nothing more. Maybe, Sarah Palin will change that sinse NONE of the who have been in office have done S$#* about it.
this sounds great. these should be built immediately. the cost should not even be considered. just make the things now and this country has free energy forever.
Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately it has been very difficult to obtain support. Even to obtain an order for the electricity (a Power Purchase Agreement). Once a unit is working, it is likely to provide inexpensive renewable energy outside the control of large firms or Governments.
its very frustrating- but only because we currently live in a world driven by profit so the oil cartels will obviously oppose efforts like these. as for efficiency, history has shown that technolopgy continually improves and devices like this will become better and better if we just get on with it and develop them.
I am a huge supporter of this idea. I honestly don't know what kind of support you would need for this project to be done, or which sources PR could use to finance such a plant, but I guess everything would be easier if we reach a Free Association pact with U.S.A, rather than the colonial Commonwealth status we have now.
I have been trying to get Puerto Rico to support this for the past 5 years. It now seems likely that it will be developed in Hawaii. A 10 MW Pilot plant is planned by Lockheed Martin for operatin in about 3 years with 100 MW units several years later. The cost will be about twice what we estimated but it is likely to come to pass. Some jobs may come to Puerto Rico, but Puerto Rico will be a customer rather than a leader.
Methinks these numbers are quite a bit inflated. These plants are very inefficient and the mass flow rates required through the heat exchangers are huge. It could play its part though if the plants could be built cheaply.
check out our web site. About 1.5 cubic miles per year of cold water and about 2.5 cu miles of warm water is needed but the technical viability has been proven. Only the 35 ft diameter pipe has not been commercially demonstrated in other applications.
The island needs this project more than ever. Last event proved how dependable we have become to oil that we aren't even taking caution on where we store it. We should, instead, mass produce our own energy source, environmentally speaking.
And the $64000 dollar question is... how much would 40 OTEC plants cost!!! The main problem with alternative fuel sources is exactly that. They are only an alternate power source once 'cheap' oil has run out.
If there is say 1 billion tons of oil left and we burn it all in 1 year or 100 years, what does it matter. It's all going to get burned before people will pay for electricity produced in this way, so party on dudes.
40 OTEC Plants will likely cost between 16 and 20 billion dollars and save around 52 million barrels of oil each year. About half of the cost of the units will be for salaries of those designing and building the units. At $70 a barrel for oil, the annual saving will be around $3.6 billion for an annual return over 18% plus the creation of thousands of jobs.
Hey, check out my website at ScientificallyGreener(Dot) com and get all the new and improved Equipments to build or buy your own solar panels and wind energy turbine systems ScientificallyGreener(Dot) com is a website that sells the most modern environmental products available
Hey, be fair. I'm an American who loves Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rican people. If you threw me out (which would be quite difficult considering how heavy (fat) I am) you would not have me working so hard to bring OTEC to Puerto Rico.
fantastic !!!! 5 star. Hope someone will build this excellent idea. Also instead of several smaller platforms, it might be a better to build one huge one at an ideal site. Thanks 4 sharing
Lockheed Martin has just received an $8.1 million grant to continue to design a unit for Hawaii. See their video by searching for Lockheed and OTEC. At present it seems that a 100 MW unit is an optimal size.
nikola tesla talked of this 100 yrs ago! look up "increaseing human energy"by nikola tesla! he talks of all of the renewable energy sources and also his wireless energy transfer system which would give wireless power to everyone on the earth! i even did a 20 ft wireless energy transfer which is key to showing how his system works!
I am sure OTEC will spread through the Caribbean and the tropics. I think Puerto Rico is the best location for a variety of reasons including potential funding assistance from the USA.
It sort of makes it sound like there's one of these plants existing, but there's not, right? It's just that this is how it would work if they got the money to do it.
There is no OTEC plant operating anywhere. However, it is now getting a lot of attention including articles in the New York Times and Worldwatch magazine as well as a morning session at the Offshore Technology Conference in Houston on May 7 (last week)
The new governor is very supportive of renewable energy and has mentioned in his state of the Island, the OTEC project we have proposed for the Southeast part of Puerto Rico.
Right now Puerto Rico has the ability to become both energy independent and to create large numbers of good jobs. This is the reality of the current situation. Discussions about past status is too often used as an excuse to do nothing. The current situation calls for actions that are well within the control of the Puerto Rico people.
I have been interested in the deep ocean resource since the early 1970s when I helped build a small factory at Cabo Mala Pascua at km 111.0 on Rt. 3. I was unable to get Puerto Rico to become the location for OTEC energy research even when offered the free use of our large unused factory site. With the internet it becomes possible to learn about most of the research and contact the people who were involved in the past and now. Check out our web site for more information.
I've checked your site. Interesting but it seems to me that this project is allways on the edge. The success of it depends on other things (oil price, technology problems, limited locations, cost).
But even with that, if you think that now is the time and you are ready to make this work... why don't you try other places too? Like south Greece where i come from and south Italy. You can find 1000 meters depths at 5 miles range maximum. You know of course that (theoryticly) energy production is allowed for privite sector now. (Practicly is not)
The problem in the Mediterranean Sea is that the cold deep ocean water cannot readily enter due to the shallow depth at the Straight of Gibraltar. This lower depth sill also prevents the cold deep water from entering the Red Sea.
There is work being done in south east India which is close to the cold deep water.
This idea is good as a back up plan to others more well known power production methods. Only in few places can be done so it can't solve earths problem for energy...
It has been estimated that OTEC could supply up to 30% of the world's energy needs. Over 90 locations are close enough to land for direct cable connection including the entire surroundings of the Gulf of Mexico.
And what about the cooling propane system. Pump all this water from 3000 feet needs a lot of power. That means the energy % will be redused even more. Maybe smaller % from methods like solar or wind. It won't worth the risk to invest to a tecnology which is at baby stage.
About one third of the gross energy is used to pump the water needed to generate the total amount of electricity. The Gross output of a 100 megawatt plant is approximately 135 MW.
That means big energy lost from the distance to bring it home. And what about the winter time? Maybe the climate is pleasant for the tourists but the stream doesn't work like this. Cold water at the surfice and even colder deeper. So, the plant probably will work half a year...
Most of the tropics between 20 degrees North to 20 degrees South have sufficiently warm surface water to generate electricity year round. More in the summer when more electricity is needed and less in the winter when demand is also lower (due mostly to less air conditioning needed).
Maybe that area at PR is ideal for this kind of plant but at how many places in the world you can find 3000 feet depth in a 2 miles range from the coast? No more than 4-5 places. To find 3000 feet depth you need to go 40-50 miles out to the sea, maybe more....
High voltage electric cables can exceed 100 miles in length, permitting much of the USA, Mexico, part of India, Africa and even Arabia to connect directly to OTEC plants. Further out locations can be used to generate high energy products such as ammonia in OTEC plant ships.
This is very apealing but at the same time its like a broken record,the technology for mankind to not depend on oil is allready invented and patented(cars that run on water,solar enegy,wind ect.)The thing is the big interests(oil co.,corrupt gov)will not let these ideas come to fruition becouse its not in their economic interests to make renewable energy it will put a dent on their bottom line and monopoly.Exxon alone has more than 50 patents on renewable energy.Theirs still $ to be made on oil.
These units are very expensive, but are economic when compared to Oil at prices over $40 a barrel. Furthermore, they have no impact on the climate. They will be paid for by investors who will be repaid from electric bills just like for existing power plants. The difference is that the base level for electricity will be higher but will have no fuel surcharge.
Tom, I am an assistant professor at Cal State, Stanislaus and teach Science Methodology to pre-service school teachers. I am very interested in this concept. When you say that the units are very expensive what do you mean? Can you give me a ballpark figure of the initial investment and subsequent maintenance costs of the plant? Dr. Ramón Vega de Jesús
I am working on a local science fair and some of my students would like to use this model as a modeling experiment. Can you direct me to any site/journals more technical information? My students (pre-service teachers) could work on a design with their schooll age students neat experiments and who knows, maybe finding a way to to cost cutting of this project.
Hurricane proof ocean platforms, moorings and vessels have been developed for the offshore oil industry over the past 10-15 years. Similar structures, moorings and vessels can be used for OTEC.
I used to live in Patillas right next to the deep water drop off. We built a small factory which can still be seen on Google Earth just West of Punta Mala Pascua.
sounds like Puerto Rico would be taken care of, no problem. What about the rest of the world? Also, what's the cost of building and maintaining the platform?
This has vast potential throughout the tropics between about 20 degrees north and 20 degrees south latitud. The Pacific and Indian Oceans are also great locations.
How much will be the cost to build this in Puerto Rico? (100 mega watts plant). This 800 millions kilowatts are monthly or how often. what other use o benefits that we have as a result of this process. who are the builders of this technology.
The units are more expensive than conventional but have no fuel cost. Each 100 MW unit would save 1.3 million barrels of oil each year and has a useful life of over 30 years. The 800 million kWh is over the course of a year.
question: there are any other areas in Puerto Rico were this plant can be built? did you recommended the construction in 100 mw plant or bigger? how much percentage will this plant replace of the actual kw on the hole island?
Few question i have about the system. using your graphical design as a reference, wouldnt the cold water need to be continuosly pumped up from the depths? how would you maintain the flow and the tempature of the water? what is the expected life span and maintainence cost of the equipment seeing that the salt water creates a highly crosive enviroment and what are the effects OF barnicles or ON other sea life
Cold deep water is continually generated in Artic and Antartic Oceans and flows as described in the video. It is continuously pumped to the heat exchangers using part of the electricity generated. Life span is expected to be over 25 years with routine maintainence. Corrosion resistant alloys and mild methods to prevent bioaccumulation of barnacles and other sea life have been developed.
A question to JTPlocek. Is it safer for the eviroment? does it produce any harm to the oceans at all? What are the disadvantages of this systems? and whe will it be implemented in Puerto Rico?
The big question is what kind of energy balance could we get from this source. If it does not prove cost competitive with coal and/or natural gas it will not be implemented.
It is competitive with Natural Gas but not Coal without carbon dioxide capture. As units are built, costs will come down. The first units are competitive with oil at about $80 a barrel. Also it is the only energy source that can generate byproduct desalinated water. The hybrid design can produce water and electricity together at lower cost than any other method.
If it generates byproduct desalinated water then it definitely will be implemented. Our civilization has clearly demonstrated that we do not know how to sustain fresh water sources through aquifers and rivers
perhaps at the very lest the oil companies will instead use the electricity generated by this system to slit enormous amounts of water to Hydrogen and oxygen??
that way they will have a commodity they can sell on to the masses and still keep their profits..
one little concern:
there are a lot of Eco systems that depend on the ocean currents and their temperatures so how much will this affect the global environment????
Open Ocean OTEC Plantships can produce Hydrogen in addition to ammonia, which may become a preferred energy source since it is much easier to store and transport than Hydrogen. A key issue will be if ownership control can remain in Puerto Rico.
The impact on Ocean Currents will be tiny even when thousands of units are operating.
The cold deep water naturally rises over time, quite rapidly during upwelling events and at seamounts. The amount used in OTEC is very small compared to natural upwelling, well below the natural variations from year to year. OTEC takes a part of what happens naturally and captures a small percentage of the energy rather than having it dissipate unused. The end result is what would happen anyway, in a way similar to hydropower. Rainwater returns to the sea with or without a dam.
This way of extracting energy from the ocean uses the temperature differences resulting from currents moving water along the "ocean conveyor belt." This process is called ocean thermal temperature conversion, or OTEC. Why this sort of technology is not feasible, I do not know? Perhaps getting the energy back to shore is not cost effective, like in the case of off shore wind and wave power generation.
This is feasible and cost competitive with current energy sources when the resource is within around 100 miles of a power grid. Much of the OTEC resource is much further offshore, particularly in the Pacific Ocean. This will require open ocean "plant ships" to produce high energy products such as ammonia, hydrogen and aluminum which can then be shipped to land.
Abount 30% of the US electrical demand and 100% of Mexico's electrical demand can be produced by OTEC in the Gulf of Mexico. The units will have to be at over 60 miles offshore and the cable cost will be a substantial part of the capital investment.
Cool. did you know that arctic areas are also plausible for energy extraction. Simple distillation should work (chemist's view). (anyone have a job?)...
OTEC has been proven technically but not commercially. It is therefore very difficult to obtain the financing needed for the first large commercial unit. The lack of available money is holding up deployment. The payback period at current oil prices is less than 5 years. If OTEC units were made in Puerto Rico, the new jobs would offset around 30% of the cost and the remaining investment would have a payback of less than 3 years.
Wooooooow! This is truly amazing, you guys have get out there and advertize this! God knows how much puerto ricans are struggling with the cost of electricity and other things. If the government would stop it's bickering for a moment, this could solve some really huge problems! Advertise the heck out of this, let the people know!! They'll back you up for sure. Godspeed!
Right on. I think this is a fantastic solution to the energy problem. Supporting u in prayer and hope there will be no corruption in the work of such a brilliant innovation.
Right now, no. There were demonstration plants in 1979, 1982 and during the 1990's. These were all demonstration plants. Some are shown on other youtube videos.
The overall gross power is about 140 MW for each 100 MW of net power(for a properly designed plant). About 40 MW is used to pump the water from both the deep water and the surface water.
OTEC does not stand for "Ocean Thermal Electricity Conversion", but rather "Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion"...huge distinction!
One need not make electricity, but can make a transportable liquid fuel...thus an OTEC plant can viewed like an Offshore Liquid Fuel Producer (as we have that infrastructure already). This implies that places in the WESTERN Pacific will be the new "Saudi of Energy" (dawn in the Pacific, twilight in the desert). Aloha, UnderseaCaveman (OTEC Engr)
You are correct! Nice to find someone who knows what OTEC means. A very small percentage of the population, not even the producer of the video knew. He corrected it in the Spanish version and the video on our web site. I haven't posted the corrected version because I like to follow the count of viewers. Over 100,000 viewers (including the Spanish version) now know what OTEC is and that Puerto Rico is a great site for it.
You are right again, and our Technical Director is in Cuba right now (April 18, 2008) as part of a special group sponsored by the US State Department.
Raul Castro is apparently not as adverse to dealing with the US as his brother.
We are working hard to make OTEC happen! Check out the June 2008 issue of Geotimes. We hope to have the first major OTEC article in 30 years. None of the popular media articles mention OTEC. Is it a conspiracy? Who knows?
OTEC has been proven in tests in 1979 and 1980 (see my video on the history of OTEC). The temperature differences have been proven in many places in the world.
Anytime you use a propane grill or use propane to heat a home or operate a propane stove, you are vaporizing or boiling propane. The only difference in OTEC is that it is condensed back to a liquid, rather than burning it.
OTEC can do a great deal to help solve both our energy and employment problems. We are trying to get it started. More people need to know about the technology.
The thing is...How much to make it? Is it Posible?
GrayskullProductions 2 weeks ago
@GrayskullProductions
It is expensive to build a commercial unit. The first 75 MW unit will cost in the range of $600 million, but will produce 600 million KWH of base load electricity per year for around 30 years. Some components will last much longer. This will be cost competitive as long as oil stays above $60 per barrel.
TJPlocek 2 weeks ago
@TJPlocek so lets say you find someone who is willing to invest a few billion dollars into this project, when would you be able to start building them and what do you estimate how long it would take until they could be put to use?
NuMetal92 2 days ago
Can part of the cold water be used in a circulating system for aquaculture of cold water fish or other organisms, in the island? I think it can be possible and it would be a good side bussiness, since cold water fish are more exportable and have more demand. Any studies for that?
MarcLira66 2 weeks ago
@MarcLira66
Aquaculture is one of the valuable long term co-products. A 100 MW OTEC Unit would produce enough deep ocean nutrient to produce about 70 TONS per day of shellfish meat based on studies done on St. Croix in the 1970s. About half of all the wild caught fish in the ocean is caught where there are natural upwellings. If OTEC discharge is kept in the photropic zone, it would replicate natural upwelling. See our web site presentations for more info.
TJPlocek 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
information about energy renewable : energiedurable.secondes.info
energiesdurables 3 months ago
Now if only our next governer, please let it not be Fortuno, make this proyect real
Asrender1 3 months ago
esta solucion es mil veces mas segura y mejor q el gasoducto!
tonitoplayboy 5 months ago 4
@tonitoplayboy eeexacto
eugie73 3 months ago
It's very material-intensive and therefore also oil-inensive to build. of course such large structures need maintainance which also doesn't come easy. But at least it's a start to think more sustainable.
thomasnordwest 8 months ago
Cleanpowercall: Global Renewable Energy Capacity Shading Nuclear Power
diwareddy111 9 months ago
i really like this idea. sounds so good. but why in PR are not using this technology?
marilynrolonrivera 10 months ago
some ppl are really smart, they make living place for others
SuperRoss83 10 months ago
very nice really
speedblazer623 11 months ago
so why are they not using it or are they?
lisaluckman 11 months ago
John R. Christy has been accused of recanting his position that climate change is neither Anthropogenic nor Catastrophic, but he didn’t. He used two independent data sets, weather balloon and satellite for his findings. (see links in my about me) Later he only stated that there was some anthropogenic impact that could not be predicted 100 years out, but that what we’re doing was good for the plants.
FreedomInAmerica 11 months ago
2/2 watch?v=bgKr480RYc4 Obama's Former Green Jobs Czar and Communist, Van Jones
Admits Left is 'PRETENDING' Need for Regulations in Green Movement
FreedomInAmerica 11 months ago
1 /2 Obama stop offshore drilling until it was reinstated. This could cause a $5 a gallon increase, because we would grow dependent upon foreign nations we are not allies with in order to provide our oil. Cap and Trade (American Power Act) would increase gas prices increase by $2.58 a gallon according to George C. Marshall Institute& taxes on the average household up to $3200 according to the RNC Foreign countries price gouge w/ gas prices to $10/gal!.
.
Allen West 2012
FreedomInAmerica 11 months ago
we need a couple hundred of those wherever possible for good, clean energy.
Hippoman141 1 year ago
This should be don e in PR, it would greatly improve its energy efficiency and people wouldnt have to endure this bad electrical company that does shit, I think this would be in PRs best interest.
bobolon31 1 year ago
really creative and of many use!
When willl this project take action?
ImUrtastyflava 1 year ago
thanks for the video.it was very informative.
swethajan 1 year ago
giant sterling engine...old tech new application: good job boys..now call me out about my ideas.
fartdeath 1 year ago
gratis
JULYX1 1 year ago
Support Clean Energy!!! Search for and Watch "The Clean Energy Anthem"
KorElement 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Free energy technology exists!But the big oil corporations don't want that technology revealed,Find this technology at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Be the revolution!
urgencyharviefcem 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Free Energy is real but the coverup is strong, if you are interested in a REAL free energy machine then
just search for the LT MAGNET MOTOR in the youtube video search , it is probably the ONLY working magnet
motor out there. Join the free energy revolution!!
baccaratbargaineq 1 year ago
Comment removed
Rickusna2009 1 year ago
Break down the Universe for me !!!!
heartlessvietboy 1 year ago
DHow do you ever come to the conclusion Walter that this type of generation of energy would stuff up the natural heat distribution of the ocean. All it is really is a gigantic float that simply has an internal system just as a human body does. But a human body or large metal one will not change the oceans heat distributions.
tanya2horses 1 year ago
@tanya2horses It is theoretically possible to change the ocean currents if the thermal balance is changed. However, the change due to OTEC will be very much less than the changes occurring from natural upwelling. Furthermore, monitoring of the initial thousand or so units will permit modeling that could predict any major changes. Any effects could be reversed by simply shutting down units as they get to the end of their life or sooner if it was required.
TJPlocek 1 year ago
The goverment of Puerto Rico is to dumb to think about something like this and is more dumb to take it to action. Fortuño think about it; we will save money on employes, and there be more problems with the aaa employes. I'm puertorican and I live in Puerto Rico just in case.
Jose2408131985 1 year ago
@Jose2408131985
aaa (the puerto rican water company) would have NOTHING to do with it. we are talking about electricity here. duh
achase1100 1 year ago
The Puerto Rican Water Company is one of the largest users of electricity in Puerto Rico. Water does not move by itself through pipes or purification plants. It requires electricity to operate pumps and other equipment. The water company has been looking into renewable sources for some of its electrical needs. duh
TJPlocek 1 year ago
Isnt possible to use the heath of the interior of the earth to produce energy?
claudio249347a 1 year ago
@claudio249347a This is already being done commercially as geothermal electric generation and home heating. Recent problems have occurred when drilling in unstable areas with creation of earthquakes.
TJPlocek 1 year ago
@claudio249347a
Yeah that's geothermal energy. Been around for some time now, and is used all over the world. (although not as much as it should)
mrflibblesthecat 1 year ago
I can just see it now, we harness energy from the water currents and consequently fuck up the weather systems.. by damaging earths' natural heat distribution mechanisms..
however far fetched that sounds, remember humans always multiply until every natural resource is consumed...
walter0bz 1 year ago
@walter0bz Your concerns are valid, but most destruction occurs under poverty conditions. Greater prosperity tends to bring more environmental protection and concern for sustainability. Overuse of any resource can lead to disaster. OTEC may moderate hurricanes and global warming.
TJPlocek 1 year ago
In the economic situation that Puerto Rico is in this seems highly unlikely
Unclesamslair 2 years ago
You are right, but it also did not happen 4 years ago when we first approached PREPA and in the 1970s when PREPA developed its own 40 MW pilot unit.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
@Unclesamslair SI, YES, but dont you think that some experimentation is needed to rise up again, this is an experiment and a damn good one too.
ai que ser positivo y embarcar en lo nuevo.
safupr41 1 year ago
Did I heart right? "40 such floating plants can supply whole Porto Rico"
?
If yes, then WOW !
:-)
StratenaMatoha 2 years ago
This is correct. Puerto Rico uses about 4,000 MW of electricity which can be generated by 40 100MW OTEC Units.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
Yay! What an excellent addition to solving the worlds power problems. I love it.
mordsith05 2 years ago
Ha, what a joke. You and I know that as long as there are trillions to be made in the oil business this efficient way to generate electricity is going to be just an animation and nothing more. Maybe, Sarah Palin will change that sinse NONE of the who have been in office have done S$#* about it.
TamakoAkai 2 years ago
this sounds great. these should be built immediately. the cost should not even be considered. just make the things now and this country has free energy forever.
taibshe 2 years ago
Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately it has been very difficult to obtain support. Even to obtain an order for the electricity (a Power Purchase Agreement). Once a unit is working, it is likely to provide inexpensive renewable energy outside the control of large firms or Governments.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
its very frustrating- but only because we currently live in a world driven by profit so the oil cartels will obviously oppose efforts like these. as for efficiency, history has shown that technolopgy continually improves and devices like this will become better and better if we just get on with it and develop them.
taibshe 2 years ago
@TJPlocek
I am a huge supporter of this idea. I honestly don't know what kind of support you would need for this project to be done, or which sources PR could use to finance such a plant, but I guess everything would be easier if we reach a Free Association pact with U.S.A, rather than the colonial Commonwealth status we have now.
SuperJoel84 2 years ago
@TJPlocek
I say this because if we were to become a state, I don't think it would be good for U.S. to let such a highly oil dependable country do this.
SuperJoel84 2 years ago
I have been trying to get Puerto Rico to support this for the past 5 years. It now seems likely that it will be developed in Hawaii. A 10 MW Pilot plant is planned by Lockheed Martin for operatin in about 3 years with 100 MW units several years later. The cost will be about twice what we estimated but it is likely to come to pass. Some jobs may come to Puerto Rico, but Puerto Rico will be a customer rather than a leader.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
Methinks these numbers are quite a bit inflated. These plants are very inefficient and the mass flow rates required through the heat exchangers are huge. It could play its part though if the plants could be built cheaply.
mooktank 2 years ago
check out our web site. About 1.5 cubic miles per year of cold water and about 2.5 cu miles of warm water is needed but the technical viability has been proven. Only the 35 ft diameter pipe has not been commercially demonstrated in other applications.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
can i find somwhere the text.
what he said in english?
alexpoli01 2 years ago
We do not have the text available separately but much more information about OTEC is available on our web site offinf.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
The island needs this project more than ever. Last event proved how dependable we have become to oil that we aren't even taking caution on where we store it. We should, instead, mass produce our own energy source, environmentally speaking.
dednrurc 2 years ago
And the $64000 dollar question is... how much would 40 OTEC plants cost!!! The main problem with alternative fuel sources is exactly that. They are only an alternate power source once 'cheap' oil has run out.
If there is say 1 billion tons of oil left and we burn it all in 1 year or 100 years, what does it matter. It's all going to get burned before people will pay for electricity produced in this way, so party on dudes.
quadrophenia3 2 years ago
40 OTEC Plants will likely cost between 16 and 20 billion dollars and save around 52 million barrels of oil each year. About half of the cost of the units will be for salaries of those designing and building the units. At $70 a barrel for oil, the annual saving will be around $3.6 billion for an annual return over 18% plus the creation of thousands of jobs.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
GOD BLESS PUERTO RICO USA
poderosop 2 years ago
GOD BLESS AMERICAN PEOPLE THE BEST
poderosop 2 years ago
Amazing technology!
meka4996 2 years ago
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scientificallygreene 2 years ago
We need this in Puerto Rico!! Another reason to kick out the Americans. Yankee go home!
MrCuajonpr 2 years ago
Hey, be fair. I'm an American who loves Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rican people. If you threw me out (which would be quite difficult considering how heavy (fat) I am) you would not have me working so hard to bring OTEC to Puerto Rico.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
it would do puerto rico alot of good hope it happens soon this world needs a diffrent source of energy than oil
popoIaman 2 years ago 6
fantastic !!!! 5 star. Hope someone will build this excellent idea. Also instead of several smaller platforms, it might be a better to build one huge one at an ideal site. Thanks 4 sharing
kamalmichael 2 years ago 2
Lockheed Martin has just received an $8.1 million grant to continue to design a unit for Hawaii. See their video by searching for Lockheed and OTEC. At present it seems that a 100 MW unit is an optimal size.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
nikola tesla talked of this 100 yrs ago! look up "increaseing human energy"by nikola tesla! he talks of all of the renewable energy sources and also his wireless energy transfer system which would give wireless power to everyone on the earth! i even did a 20 ft wireless energy transfer which is key to showing how his system works!
boxa888 2 years ago
cool vid+
Gamesfortheliving 2 years ago
Forget puerto rico,,,take it to the dominican republic,,,we need it
hispanicuscorpus 2 years ago
I am sure OTEC will spread through the Caribbean and the tropics. I think Puerto Rico is the best location for a variety of reasons including potential funding assistance from the USA.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
fine,,,let them sale to us...pto rico have funding from the USA, i think we have lot of funding from the European union, :)
hispanicuscorpus 2 years ago
Puerto Rico lo necesita tambien.
Unknownkid2 2 years ago
Very educational, thanks.
Claudia
ClaudiaHeidi 2 years ago
Talk about a great investment for Puerto Rico!!
AlizarinRipley 2 years ago 17
Feeding the planet, energy for life
Nutrire il pianeta, energia per la vita
Nourrir la planète, énergie pour la vie.
Greetings from Italy
lhd08 2 years ago
It sort of makes it sound like there's one of these plants existing, but there's not, right? It's just that this is how it would work if they got the money to do it.
CleanWaterActionPA 2 years ago
There is no OTEC plant operating anywhere. However, it is now getting a lot of attention including articles in the New York Times and Worldwatch magazine as well as a morning session at the Offshore Technology Conference in Houston on May 7 (last week)
TJPlocek 2 years ago
What is the position of the new governor of PR?
hrmtito 2 years ago
The new governor is very supportive of renewable energy and has mentioned in his state of the Island, the OTEC project we have proposed for the Southeast part of Puerto Rico.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
Cool, just like Geothermal.
DarkRazorProductions 2 years ago
thanks i really liked watching this video, very educational!
orlandohair 2 years ago 12
Right now Puerto Rico has the ability to become both energy independent and to create large numbers of good jobs. This is the reality of the current situation. Discussions about past status is too often used as an excuse to do nothing. The current situation calls for actions that are well within the control of the Puerto Rico people.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
That is intresting statistics. How do you have all this information mr. Tom?
irakleitos123 3 years ago
I have been interested in the deep ocean resource since the early 1970s when I helped build a small factory at Cabo Mala Pascua at km 111.0 on Rt. 3. I was unable to get Puerto Rico to become the location for OTEC energy research even when offered the free use of our large unused factory site. With the internet it becomes possible to learn about most of the research and contact the people who were involved in the past and now. Check out our web site for more information.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
I've checked your site. Interesting but it seems to me that this project is allways on the edge. The success of it depends on other things (oil price, technology problems, limited locations, cost).
irakleitos123 3 years ago
But even with that, if you think that now is the time and you are ready to make this work... why don't you try other places too? Like south Greece where i come from and south Italy. You can find 1000 meters depths at 5 miles range maximum. You know of course that (theoryticly) energy production is allowed for privite sector now. (Practicly is not)
irakleitos123 3 years ago
The problem in the Mediterranean Sea is that the cold deep ocean water cannot readily enter due to the shallow depth at the Straight of Gibraltar. This lower depth sill also prevents the cold deep water from entering the Red Sea.
There is work being done in south east India which is close to the cold deep water.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
Yes, I live less than a mile away from that plant that you've said.
Skalamusa 2 years ago
This idea is good as a back up plan to others more well known power production methods. Only in few places can be done so it can't solve earths problem for energy...
irakleitos123 3 years ago
It has been estimated that OTEC could supply up to 30% of the world's energy needs. Over 90 locations are close enough to land for direct cable connection including the entire surroundings of the Gulf of Mexico.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
And what about the cooling propane system. Pump all this water from 3000 feet needs a lot of power. That means the energy % will be redused even more. Maybe smaller % from methods like solar or wind. It won't worth the risk to invest to a tecnology which is at baby stage.
irakleitos123 3 years ago
About one third of the gross energy is used to pump the water needed to generate the total amount of electricity. The Gross output of a 100 megawatt plant is approximately 135 MW.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
That means big energy lost from the distance to bring it home. And what about the winter time? Maybe the climate is pleasant for the tourists but the stream doesn't work like this. Cold water at the surfice and even colder deeper. So, the plant probably will work half a year...
irakleitos123 3 years ago
Most of the tropics between 20 degrees North to 20 degrees South have sufficiently warm surface water to generate electricity year round. More in the summer when more electricity is needed and less in the winter when demand is also lower (due mostly to less air conditioning needed).
TJPlocek 3 years ago
Maybe that area at PR is ideal for this kind of plant but at how many places in the world you can find 3000 feet depth in a 2 miles range from the coast? No more than 4-5 places. To find 3000 feet depth you need to go 40-50 miles out to the sea, maybe more....
irakleitos123 3 years ago
High voltage electric cables can exceed 100 miles in length, permitting much of the USA, Mexico, part of India, Africa and even Arabia to connect directly to OTEC plants. Further out locations can be used to generate high energy products such as ammonia in OTEC plant ships.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
This is very apealing but at the same time its like a broken record,the technology for mankind to not depend on oil is allready invented and patented(cars that run on water,solar enegy,wind ect.)The thing is the big interests(oil co.,corrupt gov)will not let these ideas come to fruition becouse its not in their economic interests to make renewable energy it will put a dent on their bottom line and monopoly.Exxon alone has more than 50 patents on renewable energy.Theirs still $ to be made on oil.
omarleft 3 years ago
This is a very good idea. I live in Puerto Rico and I work on tourism. How expensive is this project? Who is going to pay for it?
daddyyankee1994 3 years ago
These units are very expensive, but are economic when compared to Oil at prices over $40 a barrel. Furthermore, they have no impact on the climate. They will be paid for by investors who will be repaid from electric bills just like for existing power plants. The difference is that the base level for electricity will be higher but will have no fuel surcharge.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
Tom, I am an assistant professor at Cal State, Stanislaus and teach Science Methodology to pre-service school teachers. I am very interested in this concept. When you say that the units are very expensive what do you mean? Can you give me a ballpark figure of the initial investment and subsequent maintenance costs of the plant? Dr. Ramón Vega de Jesús
JazzBoricua 2 years ago
I am working on a local science fair and some of my students would like to use this model as a modeling experiment. Can you direct me to any site/journals more technical information? My students (pre-service teachers) could work on a design with their schooll age students neat experiments and who knows, maybe finding a way to to cost cutting of this project.
JazzBoricua 2 years ago
You can obtain much more information on our web site which is located under my name on youtube.
TJPlocek 2 years ago
uh, thanks for showing us this video. I needed it for my Project.
Again, thank you.
jasonisrobin234 2 years ago 3
What about the huracanes or storms passing through the Caribbean, if we have that in PR?
dragoely 3 years ago
Hurricane proof ocean platforms, moorings and vessels have been developed for the offshore oil industry over the past 10-15 years. Similar structures, moorings and vessels can be used for OTEC.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
it's hurricane proof
yenom711 3 years ago
These are awesome news, most of my family live in that area. I hope the government green light this project ASAP.
dednrurc 3 years ago
wow i didn't know that,thank you wow Puerto Rico is important in a lot of ways hope it can help us
thefreakguy008 3 years ago
hey n y dont u stfu n build were u live ???
elbandidopr1 3 years ago
I used to live in Patillas right next to the deep water drop off. We built a small factory which can still be seen on Google Earth just West of Punta Mala Pascua.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
sounds like Puerto Rico would be taken care of, no problem. What about the rest of the world? Also, what's the cost of building and maintaining the platform?
niijiifilms 3 years ago
This has vast potential throughout the tropics between about 20 degrees north and 20 degrees south latitud. The Pacific and Indian Oceans are also great locations.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
I made a blog on this subject. Check it out here!
copy and paste on your internet explorer
earthequalsenergy.blogspot. com
evoinvidia 3 years ago
I don't see anything on OTEC.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
did he say 40 more? wowz...
Slashedeyes 3 years ago
How much will be the cost to build this in Puerto Rico? (100 mega watts plant). This 800 millions kilowatts are monthly or how often. what other use o benefits that we have as a result of this process. who are the builders of this technology.
rubentoabaja 3 years ago
The units are more expensive than conventional but have no fuel cost. Each 100 MW unit would save 1.3 million barrels of oil each year and has a useful life of over 30 years. The 800 million kWh is over the course of a year.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
question: there are any other areas in Puerto Rico were this plant can be built? did you recommended the construction in 100 mw plant or bigger? how much percentage will this plant replace of the actual kw on the hole island?
rubentoabaja 3 years ago
Can this OTEC system be able to function anywhere else besides the example in Puerto Rico? Preferably in the Pacific Ocean?
670ScratchNsniff 3 years ago
yes, there are experimental plants in Hawaii and possible plans for new plants in the pacific.
sebastianhumbert 3 years ago
too amazing
dmunoa 3 years ago
Few question i have about the system. using your graphical design as a reference, wouldnt the cold water need to be continuosly pumped up from the depths? how would you maintain the flow and the tempature of the water? what is the expected life span and maintainence cost of the equipment seeing that the salt water creates a highly crosive enviroment and what are the effects OF barnicles or ON other sea life
WOLFMAN1469 3 years ago
Cold deep water is continually generated in Artic and Antartic Oceans and flows as described in the video. It is continuously pumped to the heat exchangers using part of the electricity generated. Life span is expected to be over 25 years with routine maintainence. Corrosion resistant alloys and mild methods to prevent bioaccumulation of barnacles and other sea life have been developed.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
I've got a few films tackling various issues on wind power...
And please do pass the link around :)
windpowerrocks 3 years ago
i support OTEC.
the13joker 3 years ago
A question to JTPlocek. Is it safer for the eviroment? does it produce any harm to the oceans at all? What are the disadvantages of this systems? and whe will it be implemented in Puerto Rico?
the13joker 3 years ago
OTEC is one of the safest power systems. A comparison of various power systems is in our recent presentation to CIAPR posted on our offinf web site.
The primary disadvantage is the high initial cost, but if they are made in Puerto Rico, this will create large numbers of good jobs.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
The big question is what kind of energy balance could we get from this source. If it does not prove cost competitive with coal and/or natural gas it will not be implemented.
BikiniBabe1985 3 years ago
It is competitive with Natural Gas but not Coal without carbon dioxide capture. As units are built, costs will come down. The first units are competitive with oil at about $80 a barrel. Also it is the only energy source that can generate byproduct desalinated water. The hybrid design can produce water and electricity together at lower cost than any other method.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
If it generates byproduct desalinated water then it definitely will be implemented. Our civilization has clearly demonstrated that we do not know how to sustain fresh water sources through aquifers and rivers
BikiniBabe1985 3 years ago
But it will become more and more competitive as natural gas and coal prices inevitably go up, up, up, and away (after all is depleted)
starwarsgeek8 3 years ago
perhaps at the very lest the oil companies will instead use the electricity generated by this system to slit enormous amounts of water to Hydrogen and oxygen??
that way they will have a commodity they can sell on to the masses and still keep their profits..
one little concern:
there are a lot of Eco systems that depend on the ocean currents and their temperatures so how much will this affect the global environment????
thenickman26 3 years ago
Open Ocean OTEC Plantships can produce Hydrogen in addition to ammonia, which may become a preferred energy source since it is much easier to store and transport than Hydrogen. A key issue will be if ownership control can remain in Puerto Rico.
The impact on Ocean Currents will be tiny even when thousands of units are operating.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
still a tint change to the currents may produce a vast climatic change. just wondering does man really know what they are getting into?
i'm not a greenie just wondering about repercutions..
thenickman26 3 years ago
The cold deep water naturally rises over time, quite rapidly during upwelling events and at seamounts. The amount used in OTEC is very small compared to natural upwelling, well below the natural variations from year to year. OTEC takes a part of what happens naturally and captures a small percentage of the energy rather than having it dissipate unused. The end result is what would happen anyway, in a way similar to hydropower. Rainwater returns to the sea with or without a dam.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
it is going to kill the little fishies noooooo!
Joeey 3 years ago
Most fish swim fast enough to avoid or swim out of the intakes. Slow fish are lunch for fast fish in the deep open ocean. There are also screens.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
neato!
ptaba123 3 years ago
this method of subcooling and superheating propane produces mechanical energy!!!Brilliant!!!!
thedoorsbiggestfan 3 years ago 3
This way of extracting energy from the ocean uses the temperature differences resulting from currents moving water along the "ocean conveyor belt." This process is called ocean thermal temperature conversion, or OTEC. Why this sort of technology is not feasible, I do not know? Perhaps getting the energy back to shore is not cost effective, like in the case of off shore wind and wave power generation.
nextgenerationinvest 3 years ago
This is feasible and cost competitive with current energy sources when the resource is within around 100 miles of a power grid. Much of the OTEC resource is much further offshore, particularly in the Pacific Ocean. This will require open ocean "plant ships" to produce high energy products such as ammonia, hydrogen and aluminum which can then be shipped to land.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
If only they would build and use more of these!
PlasmaDude47 3 years ago
just think we could do this in the Gulf of Mexico... it's 80 degrees there year round
cowboycarl04 3 years ago
Abount 30% of the US electrical demand and 100% of Mexico's electrical demand can be produced by OTEC in the Gulf of Mexico. The units will have to be at over 60 miles offshore and the cable cost will be a substantial part of the capital investment.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
Why expensive cable? The produced electricity can be converted (on side) in hydrogen...
FlorinL68 3 years ago
A cable to shore is much less expensive than hydrogen generation for initial near shore OTEC units.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
mkranta:
Cool. did you know that arctic areas are also plausible for energy extraction. Simple distillation should work (chemist's view). (anyone have a job?)...
mkranta 3 years ago
OTEC has been proven technically but not commercially. It is therefore very difficult to obtain the financing needed for the first large commercial unit. The lack of available money is holding up deployment. The payback period at current oil prices is less than 5 years. If OTEC units were made in Puerto Rico, the new jobs would offset around 30% of the cost and the remaining investment would have a payback of less than 3 years.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
Wooooooow! This is truly amazing, you guys have get out there and advertize this! God knows how much puerto ricans are struggling with the cost of electricity and other things. If the government would stop it's bickering for a moment, this could solve some really huge problems! Advertise the heck out of this, let the people know!! They'll back you up for sure. Godspeed!
nicolegranda 3 years ago
Im doing a report on OTEC. This really helps!!!!! Thank you!!!!
moocowcity435 3 years ago
Right on. I think this is a fantastic solution to the energy problem. Supporting u in prayer and hope there will be no corruption in the work of such a brilliant innovation.
Floraiton 3 years ago
Thank you.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
is there a plant like this anywhere in the world???
taverasv9024 3 years ago
Right now, no. There were demonstration plants in 1979, 1982 and during the 1990's. These were all demonstration plants. Some are shown on other youtube videos.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
where would the energy used to power the pumps that take water from the deep ocean for the condenser?
dillj34555 3 years ago
The overall gross power is about 140 MW for each 100 MW of net power(for a properly designed plant). About 40 MW is used to pump the water from both the deep water and the surface water.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
OTEC does not stand for "Ocean Thermal Electricity Conversion", but rather "Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion"...huge distinction!
One need not make electricity, but can make a transportable liquid fuel...thus an OTEC plant can viewed like an Offshore Liquid Fuel Producer (as we have that infrastructure already). This implies that places in the WESTERN Pacific will be the new "Saudi of Energy" (dawn in the Pacific, twilight in the desert). Aloha, UnderseaCaveman (OTEC Engr)
UnderseaCaveman 3 years ago
You are correct! Nice to find someone who knows what OTEC means. A very small percentage of the population, not even the producer of the video knew. He corrected it in the Spanish version and the video on our web site. I haven't posted the corrected version because I like to follow the count of viewers. Over 100,000 viewers (including the Spanish version) now know what OTEC is and that Puerto Rico is a great site for it.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
Yes, PR would be awesome for OTEC. In fact, the first real OTEC attempt was next to PR in Cuba (back in the day). Hope you guys make it happen.
UnderseaCaveman 3 years ago
You are right again, and our Technical Director is in Cuba right now (April 18, 2008) as part of a special group sponsored by the US State Department.
Raul Castro is apparently not as adverse to dealing with the US as his brother.
We are working hard to make OTEC happen! Check out the June 2008 issue of Geotimes. We hope to have the first major OTEC article in 30 years. None of the popular media articles mention OTEC. Is it a conspiracy? Who knows?
TJPlocek 3 years ago
great idea. but what if the streams are already all messed up, in a way it is more unpredictable in practice, than in theory?
anyway, i am not an especialist in streams, it is just a question...
nice video!
folopo2 3 years ago
OTEC has been proven in tests in 1979 and 1980 (see my video on the history of OTEC). The temperature differences have been proven in many places in the world.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
it is all good boiling propane is the scariest part.
chandrakasan 3 years ago
Anytime you use a propane grill or use propane to heat a home or operate a propane stove, you are vaporizing or boiling propane. The only difference in OTEC is that it is condensed back to a liquid, rather than burning it.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
wow this is so cool
yzon33 3 years ago
why can't anybody make this a possible solution to our current econonic situation. The government should get into this.
arcmedialike 3 years ago
OTEC can do a great deal to help solve both our energy and employment problems. We are trying to get it started. More people need to know about the technology.
TJPlocek 3 years ago
I just hope that the government has the brains to follow up on this. It's likely that the oil and nuclear companies will try to shut this down.
Raimon2K6 3 years ago