Macnamb actually wrote that the whole patrol had to carry ONE 20kgs can of water... not 2 each... which means 16 canisters or 320kgrs of water... ... As for the 20 clicks with 100kgs of gear, he never stated the did that without taking brakes.
Is water really carried like that? Isn't there a weight dispersal water bladder in their backpacks. It seems odd that they would carry jerry cans on a mobile mission. Can anyone with experience comment on this?
@davidbmason No experience, but in the books the plan was to dig a LUP (lying-up position) as a covert observation point on the main supply route (MSR). They were essentially going to sit in a camoflaged hole and report on the SS-1 Scud launchers moving up and down the MSR trying to evade satellite/air detection. So in effect this was not a mobile mission at all, they would sit there, drink water, eat and report on enemy movement covertly to get airstrikes in, and then get out.
@shades2 Cheers and thanks for your reply. I guess if they were going to lay up and remain in an OP for a period of time, jerry cans make sense. Thanks once again.
is anyone missing the fact this boy seems to remember a lot about one insignificant evening 10+ years ago where he saw 'nothing'?I'm not say mcnab/ryan aren't lying but this doesn't add up either. If he didn't anything why does he remember it all so vividly? it wouldn't be difficult for anderson to get some iraqis to lie for him to add weight to his sabotage.his motivation is exonerating vince, maybe he feels fighting lies with alleged lies is justified?all 3 tales could be lies
@fwdbb100 Check out a book. Soldier Five - "The Real Truth About the Bravo Two Zero Mission". It's pretty critical about the command structure, apparently, and gives another perspective on what happened. They felt pretty abandoned by their higher-ups, and were essentially left to their own devices to survive, once it all fell apart. The truth is also, that they were searched for, but in the wrong areas. Apparently the massive contacts were somewhat overstated in the books...
@shades2 Of course man, they only give a little bit of truth, not enough for the MOD to step in about, most of it exaggerated to make a good gripping book, and the rest of it a load of old tosh. Everyone buys it, and the soldier makes a fortune... that's the low-down of most S.A.S books.
@NeoTech08 Wasn't always the way, some of the older books told it like it was in the Falklands for example. The MOD fought the Soldier Five book tooth and nail in court, they've kind of had enough of SAS men selling their stories, and this book didn't exactly sing their praises. I believe SAS soldiers now sign a secrecy contract that prevents them from writing any book without express permission, which kinda sucks for us...
@NeoTech08 You're right though, a lot of the recent books have been sexed up majorly, as hearing about people sitting around doing nothing, or engaging in relatively light contacts is not exactly exciting reading. I take nothing away though from the SAS men who put their necks on the line, and got captured/tortured etc. Their courage can't be questioned, as going behind enemy lines like that, is incredibly risky. They are just human at the end of the day, and can make mistakes.
@NeoTech08 No, since Mcnab an Chris Ryan SAS Recruits have to sign an act that they will never put there actions into print from now on. The SAS does not condone any of these accounts, they dont like it.
@hobanio Yes... that's what I meant. You look at all these published SAS books and you will see that they were all published before the act was passed. Even though they were only writing a very small fraction of truth, the MOD still did not like it which is why the act was created in the first place. Soldiers telling the story from their point of view is not good as the Special Forces cannot write history as they want it to be known like they can normally do.
@whitbyjet65 If you read the comments he is identified. A lot of the guys on the Parachute 2 Club photo archive became SAS. Dinger is identified in the MV Norland photo and the 2 Section, D Coy photo, at Boca House in the Falkland Islands. Have a look by Googling PARACHUTE 2 CLUB, photo archive, then the folder 1981-90.
IF you want the REAL written account of the Bravo Two Zero mission, read Soldier Five, written my Mike Coburn the Kiwi that got shot and captured. His book, as he puts it, was written to dispute Ryan and McNab's claims that Phillips was responsible. It was blocked by the British government, and had to be taken to the New Zealand High, Supreme, and Court of Appeals in order for Coburn's side of the story to be told... A MUST READ... SOLDIER FIVE by Mike Coburn
I've tried finding interviews with Chris Ryan and Andy Mcnab where they discuss the real bravo two zero and presumably critique it. I cant find anything at all. Any one know of any interviews??
Fuck my Administration and ur Administration for sending our sons and daughters to be murderers and to be killed overseas long away from home. Going to war should be the last option but now a days we pulls the trigger to declare war before exercising any other type of diplomacy.
I can't fathom why anyone would want to discredit these guys especially someone who was ex SAS himself. The guys who went on this patrol are the most bravest and fearless people that risk their own lives to protect others as are any other of our fighting forces. They are highly trained to a standard that many cant compare to. Commend them for what they endured not discredit them.
@ianc5571 Parts of their stories didn't tally, as stated by the then OC of SAS; debriefing didn't match the books' depictions. Also, some were very unhappy that both Mcnab and Ryan, one moreso than the other, blamed Vince for the patrol's failure, and seriously denigrated him, which is apparently not the done thing within the SAS when the soldier in question is deceased and unable to defend himself.
great book, Andy McNab seems to get negative feedback but people seem to forget what he went through. He like many soldiers put his ass on the line for the 'greater good' who is anyone to be picking faults in his stories or accounts, you all know he got captured and went through horrific torture, how about a little respect for the guy?
Honestly i think McNab kind of twisted the story a bit. If i'm not mistaken RSM Ratcliff in his book 'the eye of the storm' mentions they killed no more than 30-40 iraqis & not 250 & he heavily criticised them for not taking vehicles (as he did in his successful mission some time before), getting seperated & compromised. Now this is funny, both Ryan & McNab in their books & the Bravo Two Zero film say they were spotted by the shepherd boy but he now says he never saw them :s
He seems to have an agenda and lacks objectivity. Lots of "if this is true" etc. This would have been improved if he had gone in with an open mind but found inconsistencies rather than "they're a bunch of liars". What made me smile is his attitude of he couldn't carry the water cans so no one else could.
@TheAlexkettle I just wondering, do the book tells about carrying water cans by hands or it is this "great traveler" invention. From my experience a trained alpinist can carry a 40-50 kg backpack up into mountains and as water being spent it is easier to walk...
pete radcliffe the RSM of 22 at the time caustically commented that it was a shame they were captured because at the rate they claimed they were killing iraqis the war would've been over in 2 weeks.
All hands to dave sterling. The founder of the SAS. 1941 Its just tough and tougher To join over the years. My grandad was special forces once upon a time. R.I.P grandad. You tought me alot in life.
SAS And SBS Are the best in the world. It has been proven. We have the best tactical skills. Other regiments look to us for help and training.
@Stereolabdream Cannot completely agree about "factor of 10" of ancient writers. Do not judge by modern moral standards. If you get caught on lying it is a disgrace which is much worse than to tell the truth. Most probably simply nobody knew the real numbers...
I've read the book of this and as a journalist myself i must say it is an appallingly biased and poorly researched piece of work.
That is not to say that either Ryan's or McNab's accounts are totally acurrate - i think the truth lies somewhere between the three, but Asher just takes the Iraqis' accounts as gospel without questioning their reliability as witnesses/sources.
@howieboy62032914 True - not to mention that any one of these people could have been paid-off by Saddam to shut up. The truth is most likely to be Mike/Mark Coburn's account, 'Soldier Five', which was backed by the then-CO of 22SAS due to its accuracy and only went to court because others in the MoD didn't like it.
For a man who is said to be ex-SAS, this presenter gets rather star struck and excited about soldiers doing a job of work, even if they are SAS and their missions would of course be arduous to say the least.
Obviously, this guy didn't read McNab's book closely. McNab never claimed that he witnessed the killing of 250 Iraqis. Rather, he states that (Page 403) "it was established by intelligence sources that we had left 250 Ir…"
no one but the 8 men, or 5 not countin the dead, know the truth, the sas would cover up as much as poss, and the patrol members want to sell their story. i honestly dont know whagt to think, i dont believe they killed 200+ but i dont believe they didnt kill any either, if an sas patrol open fire, they get a kill, simple..but tbh fuk knows too many different stories about it.
ive just read a bit more when mike got caught YES he did have a large knife and was shot in the foot he lost a lott of blood
so these fucking iraqi bastards are liars saying we went to give him blood at the hospital but the blood was not hes type so a other man give him blood BULLSHIT there kicked the shit outta him get the book and read it your self
Vince is an SAS Hero. I can see why other members of the team might have thought the shepherd saw them in the LUP... especially if he followed the tracks and walked by closely. They should of asked him about the heli LZ also to see if the stories match with the bulldozer owner!
Yeah, Iraqis never ever lie.. LOL
timmian85 3 weeks ago
read the books by andy mcnabb, chris ryan and then read the michael asher version. you will not be dissapointed.
SuperReptus 3 weeks ago
good docu +1
W0KD 1 month ago
Why the fcuk were British men dying to protect Israel? That's just stupid.
guydecervens 1 month ago
@guydecervens Political reasons. To keep a balance.
Easyandy100 1 month ago
Macnamb actually wrote that the whole patrol had to carry ONE 20kgs can of water... not 2 each... which means 16 canisters or 320kgrs of water... ... As for the 20 clicks with 100kgs of gear, he never stated the did that without taking brakes.
priestharis 1 month ago
mcnab never said anything bad about phlillips he stated that he was an experianced soilder and was glad to have him there
AssasinsWeedxX 1 month ago
I don't like this man...
NeoTech08 1 month ago
Those bedouin, such handsome, strong and proud people...
shades2 1 month ago
Is water really carried like that? Isn't there a weight dispersal water bladder in their backpacks. It seems odd that they would carry jerry cans on a mobile mission. Can anyone with experience comment on this?
davidbmason 1 month ago
@davidbmason No experience, but in the books the plan was to dig a LUP (lying-up position) as a covert observation point on the main supply route (MSR). They were essentially going to sit in a camoflaged hole and report on the SS-1 Scud launchers moving up and down the MSR trying to evade satellite/air detection. So in effect this was not a mobile mission at all, they would sit there, drink water, eat and report on enemy movement covertly to get airstrikes in, and then get out.
shades2 1 month ago
@shades2 Cheers and thanks for your reply. I guess if they were going to lay up and remain in an OP for a period of time, jerry cans make sense. Thanks once again.
davidbmason 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Google PARACHUTE 2 CLUB photo archive, 1981-90 to see the real Dinger, and other SAS troops, when they were serving with 2 PARA.
Whatever81417 1 month ago
is anyone missing the fact this boy seems to remember a lot about one insignificant evening 10+ years ago where he saw 'nothing'?I'm not say mcnab/ryan aren't lying but this doesn't add up either. If he didn't anything why does he remember it all so vividly? it wouldn't be difficult for anderson to get some iraqis to lie for him to add weight to his sabotage.his motivation is exonerating vince, maybe he feels fighting lies with alleged lies is justified?all 3 tales could be lies
fwdbb100 1 month ago 2
@fwdbb100 Check out a book. Soldier Five - "The Real Truth About the Bravo Two Zero Mission". It's pretty critical about the command structure, apparently, and gives another perspective on what happened. They felt pretty abandoned by their higher-ups, and were essentially left to their own devices to survive, once it all fell apart. The truth is also, that they were searched for, but in the wrong areas. Apparently the massive contacts were somewhat overstated in the books...
shades2 1 month ago
@shades2 Of course man, they only give a little bit of truth, not enough for the MOD to step in about, most of it exaggerated to make a good gripping book, and the rest of it a load of old tosh. Everyone buys it, and the soldier makes a fortune... that's the low-down of most S.A.S books.
NeoTech08 1 month ago 5
@NeoTech08 Wasn't always the way, some of the older books told it like it was in the Falklands for example. The MOD fought the Soldier Five book tooth and nail in court, they've kind of had enough of SAS men selling their stories, and this book didn't exactly sing their praises. I believe SAS soldiers now sign a secrecy contract that prevents them from writing any book without express permission, which kinda sucks for us...
shades2 1 month ago
@NeoTech08 You're right though, a lot of the recent books have been sexed up majorly, as hearing about people sitting around doing nothing, or engaging in relatively light contacts is not exactly exciting reading. I take nothing away though from the SAS men who put their necks on the line, and got captured/tortured etc. Their courage can't be questioned, as going behind enemy lines like that, is incredibly risky. They are just human at the end of the day, and can make mistakes.
shades2 1 month ago
@shades2 I couldn't agree more.
NeoTech08 1 month ago
@NeoTech08 No, since Mcnab an Chris Ryan SAS Recruits have to sign an act that they will never put there actions into print from now on. The SAS does not condone any of these accounts, they dont like it.
hobanio 2 weeks ago
@hobanio Yes... that's what I meant. You look at all these published SAS books and you will see that they were all published before the act was passed. Even though they were only writing a very small fraction of truth, the MOD still did not like it which is why the act was created in the first place. Soldiers telling the story from their point of view is not good as the Special Forces cannot write history as they want it to be known like they can normally do.
NeoTech08 2 weeks ago
I wonder are there any good books on the SAS, not just this particular event.
warwatcher91 2 months ago
Comment removed
joebud321 1 month ago
yeah i believe everything these Iraqi's are saying (probably in fear of their life from Saddams secret police)
Glaswegianmark 2 months ago 2
See the real Dinger when he was a member of the British Parachute Regiment. Google 'Parachute 2 Club' for 2 PARA photo archive.
Whatever81417 2 months ago
@Whatever81417 How do we know which one is him?
whitbyjet65 2 months ago
@whitbyjet65 If you read the comments he is identified. A lot of the guys on the Parachute 2 Club photo archive became SAS. Dinger is identified in the MV Norland photo and the 2 Section, D Coy photo, at Boca House in the Falkland Islands. Have a look by Googling PARACHUTE 2 CLUB, photo archive, then the folder 1981-90.
Whatever81417 2 months ago
@Whatever81417 I found him just by typing Dinger SAS into Google. I now know his name. Thanks.
whitbyjet65 2 months ago
IF you want the REAL written account of the Bravo Two Zero mission, read Soldier Five, written my Mike Coburn the Kiwi that got shot and captured. His book, as he puts it, was written to dispute Ryan and McNab's claims that Phillips was responsible. It was blocked by the British government, and had to be taken to the New Zealand High, Supreme, and Court of Appeals in order for Coburn's side of the story to be told... A MUST READ... SOLDIER FIVE by Mike Coburn
KirKaineNZ 2 months ago
The book is not called the eye of the storm it is called bravo two zero I am reading it right now
cTH37c 2 months ago
@cTH37c Chris ryan book is called the one that got away.
ukguy 2 months ago
@ukguy i know i was on about McNab's i have got both
cTH37c 3 weeks ago
I've tried finding interviews with Chris Ryan and Andy Mcnab where they discuss the real bravo two zero and presumably critique it. I cant find anything at all. Any one know of any interviews??
chrisalexander21 2 months ago
Fuck my Administration and ur Administration for sending our sons and daughters to be murderers and to be killed overseas long away from home. Going to war should be the last option but now a days we pulls the trigger to declare war before exercising any other type of diplomacy.
MASTERNCS 2 months ago
Maybe Andy seen the kid but the kid didn't see them
jblac65 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Google "PARACHUTE 2 CLUB". Genuine comments and photos from guys who have served in 2 PARA,
Whatever81417 3 months ago
Still, a great story from very brave men.
roglowe 3 months ago
I can't fathom why anyone would want to discredit these guys especially someone who was ex SAS himself. The guys who went on this patrol are the most bravest and fearless people that risk their own lives to protect others as are any other of our fighting forces. They are highly trained to a standard that many cant compare to. Commend them for what they endured not discredit them.
ianc5571 3 months ago
@ianc5571 Parts of their stories didn't tally, as stated by the then OC of SAS; debriefing didn't match the books' depictions. Also, some were very unhappy that both Mcnab and Ryan, one moreso than the other, blamed Vince for the patrol's failure, and seriously denigrated him, which is apparently not the done thing within the SAS when the soldier in question is deceased and unable to defend himself.
MightyGimp 2 months ago 2
great book, Andy McNab seems to get negative feedback but people seem to forget what he went through. He like many soldiers put his ass on the line for the 'greater good' who is anyone to be picking faults in his stories or accounts, you all know he got captured and went through horrific torture, how about a little respect for the guy?
sparkiebaker 3 months ago
Honestly i think McNab kind of twisted the story a bit. If i'm not mistaken RSM Ratcliff in his book 'the eye of the storm' mentions they killed no more than 30-40 iraqis & not 250 & he heavily criticised them for not taking vehicles (as he did in his successful mission some time before), getting seperated & compromised. Now this is funny, both Ryan & McNab in their books & the Bravo Two Zero film say they were spotted by the shepherd boy but he now says he never saw them :s
Suppressingfire 3 months ago
He seems to have an agenda and lacks objectivity. Lots of "if this is true" etc. This would have been improved if he had gone in with an open mind but found inconsistencies rather than "they're a bunch of liars". What made me smile is his attitude of he couldn't carry the water cans so no one else could.
TheAlexkettle 3 months ago
@TheAlexkettle I just wondering, do the book tells about carrying water cans by hands or it is this "great traveler" invention. From my experience a trained alpinist can carry a 40-50 kg backpack up into mountains and as water being spent it is easier to walk...
JerkCruel 2 months ago
@JerkCruel
The book does state that they carried the 25kg water cans
britisharmysgtmonkey 2 months ago
i take that back nice documentary
oruniakikers 3 months ago 2
what a nerd
oruniakikers 3 months ago
Comment removed
knut761 3 months ago
only 250 kill/wound?
BWAHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAAH bollocks!
GShock112 4 months ago
Watching this video without knowing what Bravo Two Zero is...is kind of confusing
lvl100pokemans 4 months ago
Ashers book sshoot to kill is well worth a read.
26wordy 4 months ago
pete radcliffe the RSM of 22 at the time caustically commented that it was a shame they were captured because at the rate they claimed they were killing iraqis the war would've been over in 2 weeks.
26wordy 4 months ago 9
22uksf, thanks for the post mate, I really enjoyed the book too. good lad.
26wordy 4 months ago
SAS are good fictional writer. Like Andy McNab, Chris Ryan and Ranulph Fiennes.
RockyPaolo 4 months ago
The sheppeard looks like that Eglasias bloke :)
Tegnekul 4 months ago
All hands to dave sterling. The founder of the SAS. 1941 Its just tough and tougher To join over the years. My grandad was special forces once upon a time. R.I.P grandad. You tought me alot in life.
SAS And SBS Are the best in the world. It has been proven. We have the best tactical skills. Other regiments look to us for help and training.
fairmanbaby 4 months ago
interesting facts from iraqi side
there was an event which was reported in the press
when a sas patrol crossed into the irish republic
they were apprehended and appeared in a closed dublin court
on firearms charges
no other details available
angloaust 4 months ago
20 km's or 2?
Actually, there is a long tradition of multiplying military figures by a factor of 10.
Ancient writers routinely did so when giving accounts of the size of armies and battle casualties...
Stereolabdream 5 months ago
@Stereolabdream Cannot completely agree about "factor of 10" of ancient writers. Do not judge by modern moral standards. If you get caught on lying it is a disgrace which is much worse than to tell the truth. Most probably simply nobody knew the real numbers...
JerkCruel 2 months ago
I've read the book of this and as a journalist myself i must say it is an appallingly biased and poorly researched piece of work.
That is not to say that either Ryan's or McNab's accounts are totally acurrate - i think the truth lies somewhere between the three, but Asher just takes the Iraqis' accounts as gospel without questioning their reliability as witnesses/sources.
howieboy62032914 5 months ago
@howieboy62032914 True - not to mention that any one of these people could have been paid-off by Saddam to shut up. The truth is most likely to be Mike/Mark Coburn's account, 'Soldier Five', which was backed by the then-CO of 22SAS due to its accuracy and only went to court because others in the MoD didn't like it.
Richtigify 5 months ago
I think I know why they got spotted: They were carrying bright yellow water canisters with even brighter red lids :-)
Pearly403 5 months ago
@Pearly403 oh, that made me laugh!!
Thank you!!
911beere 5 months ago
@911beere You're welcome :-)
Pearly403 5 months ago
For a man who is said to be ex-SAS, this presenter gets rather star struck and excited about soldiers doing a job of work, even if they are SAS and their missions would of course be arduous to say the least.
staninjapan07 5 months ago
Obviously, this guy didn't read McNab's book closely. McNab never claimed that he witnessed the killing of 250 Iraqis. Rather, he states that (Page 403) "it was established by intelligence sources that we had left 250 Ir…"
browsfan 5 months ago 2
1 thing bout this too, he didnt do it in same conditions, its not snowing.....
MrThisukboi 6 months ago
ive read alln acoounts bar th rsm's.....
MrThisukboi 6 months ago
no one but the 8 men, or 5 not countin the dead, know the truth, the sas would cover up as much as poss, and the patrol members want to sell their story. i honestly dont know whagt to think, i dont believe they killed 200+ but i dont believe they didnt kill any either, if an sas patrol open fire, they get a kill, simple..but tbh fuk knows too many different stories about it.
MrThisukboi 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is hilarious! I love the British!
TheCentralServices 6 months ago
ive just read a bit more when mike got caught YES he did have a large knife and was shot in the foot he lost a lott of blood
so these fucking iraqi bastards are liars saying we went to give him blood at the hospital but the blood was not hes type so a other man give him blood BULLSHIT there kicked the shit outta him get the book and read it your self
MultiPlayaaa 6 months ago
it just goes to show andy mcnabb and chris rynn didnt even like each other
it all went wrong so they blame vince because hes not hear to tell hes story
ive got the book here soldier 5 by mick coburn and up to now its right what mike is saying the kikd never saw them
if you look up soldier 5 on google it will tell you it had to get permission by the mps and our goverment its crazy MCNABB and chris hated each other
MultiPlayaaa 6 months ago
Would be interesting to hear what andy mcnab and chris ryan has to say about this. Like an indepth conversation with them about it.
chrisalexander21 7 months ago
Thanks for the videos.
06009122 7 months ago
I recommend people read 'soldier five' by 'Mike coburn' (Mark)
jinkjack 7 months ago
Vince is an SAS Hero. I can see why other members of the team might have thought the shepherd saw them in the LUP... especially if he followed the tracks and walked by closely. They should of asked him about the heli LZ also to see if the stories match with the bulldozer owner!
cqbhoun 7 months ago
@jinkjack Yeah that was a great read! you know what he was saying was true because they tried to ban it!
Hamie321 7 months ago
It was a disgrace what 'Ryan' said about Vince.
jinkjack 7 months ago
@jinkjack what did ryan say about vince?
thepaceofalex 4 months ago