I live in California and the community college here is so cheap, WAAAY cheaper than the one I went to in Pennsylvania (which was still cheap enough so that I had extra left over from the Pell Grant for going there). And I went there for free because I was a foster kid. BUUUUT, you get what you pay for -- which in this case is nothing. (unless you count my free trip to the nuthouse).
Community college is a scam. The government subsidizes it to make the four year colleges more expensive. And by doing so the poorer students are deprived of two years of 4 year experiences - research, social connections, activities, etc. - resulting in diminished opportunities insofar as graduate school and job prospects are concerned.
I "attended" DeVry Online. Worst mistake of my life. They really trick you with the advertising. And when you talk to them on the phone, they will say ANY and EVERY thing in order to get you to take out big loans to pay for their shit. Even if you do end up getting a degree from them. You will be in debt the rest of your life, and employers will laugh you out of their office. This trickery should be completely illegal. Someone really needs to put a stop to for-profit schools.
To me, it's all a scam. I've learned more and have spent less at my local community collage than I did at a for-profit college. I went to a for-profit right out of high school. They gave me two loans which totaled around $20,000 for the semester. Classes were a joke. My English final was "What's your favorite color?" and "What's your teacher's name?" I couldn't answer the latter because though I was there everyday, she spent most of her time showing wedding photos so it was pointless to listen.
In Australia we have two completely separate catagories, Universities and TAFEs. A university is what Americans would call College and we pay for it with HECS/HELP, which is a low interest loan from the government paid back as part of tax but only after you start earning over a certain threashold. Tafes are pay up front but they're only about $400 a year full time and they teach trades. There are a few for profit "universities" but they're mostly just a con to lure international students.
This makes me sad, I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year and it saved me A LOT of money. This is garbage. I'm not surprised though.
why do u envy them they didn't pull u to their colleges if u don't want it with that price then f off go open ur own college and make it for free . as long there people would pay for it the price will go higher and higher ^^ so be strong because u live in the jungle sorry of the reality hits u hard XD
Do they have programs in the US that enable people that are laid off to go back to school and have the government pay for it? They do in Canada, more specifically, Ontario. So these so-called schools that are for profit are not only scamming students they've duped, they are ROBBING from the taxpayer as well.
Fun fact: Any 'credits' you earn in a private college are NOT transferable to a public college. Nor are they transferable to another private college.
@LondonOntGuy Well, in my state they do [North Carolina]. However, they tend to go to Community College rather than an University. (I completely agree with what you said about for-profit schools)
The way this program is set up here, it's basically a private college or nothing at all. Most public colleges like Fanshawe in London or St. Claire in Windsor have two year programs. There are very few one year programs. A private college comes along and dupes the student into thinking "a one year accelerated program is just as good as one that is two or three years". What they fail to mention is there is a lot left out and very often only cover the basics.
its not that the for profit schools are less effective, its that anyone who gets tricked into going to one just because of advertisements in a community college is already not the kind of person who is bright enough to do their homework. all big decisions in life require a ton of homework, if they cant do the homework for picking a school then why would anyone expect them to actually do their homework to study for the exam.
The reich wing loves for profit colleges, just as much as their love fascist WS and their communist caste society.
They love the "Made in China" equivalent to education' that is: low cost to make, low and useless quality, and sold at a price that requires a high interest loan.
And thats why the cut to C/C, C/C provides a low cost to make, high quality, and often cheaper then a new TV for a semester.
End the reich wing if don't want your kids growing to closet case fascist commies.
I pay about 250 dollars in tution for a whole year at my university. State university ftw? (it is the same btw for ALL the classes) books is not included off :)
Education is free in Sweden. K12 is free and you get free school lunches. In college you pay for everything BUT the tuition. Suck on that. #1 Sweden! Sweden! Sweden! hmm... Somehow it doesn't feel as catchy to chant... But we still rule.
Sweden rawks but, here in Australia, I did 4 years of University with an interest free loan from the government. I only had to pay a student union fees. After that, I got another interest free loan to do a masters. Nowadays, I believe that students have to pay a small deposit for each course and the government pays the rest, but people can get another interest free 'HELP' loan to cover that. This is all separate, of course, from student living assistance.
Higher education used to be free here in Australia too but I'm actually ok with the setup we've got over here (funding for living expenses.. but that's another discussion). Only 1 in 4 people go to university and those who graduate will earn a lot more for the rest of their lives. As one of those 1 in 4 I don't mind paying my way.
But yes, Sweden is better. One of the very short list of countries I'd live other than Aus. (USA somewhere on that list below Romania btw.)
@RealityVersusEgo LISTEN STUPID i GO TO A FOUR YEAR SCHOOL!! I have been trying to tell you that for 3 fucking threads but your too dense to understand English! I was saying paying as much as I pay to got to a real school (as i do) to go to a trade school (as I dont) would be madness. but you are so fucking thick you cant understand my point. RIT is like MIT but in upstate new york! you RETARD HAVE YOU EVER READ ANYTHING?
In Australia our universities are among the best in the world (I've been to LaTrobe university in Melbourne and met Harvard graduates; they're on par and sometimes not as good, prestige issues aside). For that the course costs about16k per year and Australian citizens can pay that as a guaranteed low interest loan from the government which you pay back only after you start earning over a given threashold. People go to university *if they're smart enough*; wealth is (close to) irrelevant.
@tangent272 Well, they aren't rated among the best... The top 50 is mainly America and Britain, not that they don't have good schools. Because it could be cause of more money.
I guess part of what I was trying to get at (re: the harvard graduates I've met) is that when you pay top dollar for an education you might not be buying what you think you are. For instance, a lot of those "top" schools are charging for the prestige of their qualifications, and to be fair you probably will get a better job with a famous university qual than otherwise. But you won't necessarily *know* more, possibly less. Indian quals are notorious for this; morons buying PHDs.
College is a rip off for most people anyway. TYT constantly shows their ignorance on this matter and it drives me crazy. You can get degrees online from almost every single state school system in the entire country, so whose fault is it that people who aren't willing to do the research end up going to a more expensive, less respected school? For less than $3k, I finished two state college bachelor's degrees using credit by exam and independent study. What community college can beat that?
@OTs03AS Not for people with real skills instead of the crap they try to shove down your throat at traditional colleges. By the way, Harvard offers degrees through mostly online coursework. That's some quality toilet paper right there!
@OTs03AS Employers who have no idea how the real world works, anyway. Online work is, in general, much more difficult and requires more maturity and focus to finish. Young people don't usually do well with it. Most of the people who do their coursework online already have a career and just need advancement.
@OTs03AS Also, UConn, UMass, Columbia College (of Missouri), SUNY, Duke, Purdue, Penn State and many other well known colleges offer online degrees. Most state universities do, as well as most community colleges.
@OTs03AS The University of London has for centuries offered distance education. In UK, there are also Heriott-Watt University, Open University, University of Liverpool, University of West England and University of Nottingham just off of the top of my head. There are probably dozens, maybe hundreds, more.
Community colleges' admissions standards are so low, that if someone has to resort to a for-profit college, they're probably better off not going to college in the first place. Anyone who has any doubts about that should simply find & watch the Frontline documentary "College Inc", or GAO testimony on to the US Senate (which can be googled & found on CSPAN) about the widespread & systematic fraud being committed by these overpriced, under-performing diploma mills.
Only the rich should have the best education. That is why all private schools are to be nationalized and put under democratic control of the communities. Capitalism is good for the 1% and we the 99% must pay the bills of the 1%.
Using one example of an ineffectual school doesn't make you correct. Your logical falicy is called correlation doesn't equal causation. Nursing is only one area and those of us who actually have experienced both community and 4-year realize that the majority of the time you get a better quality education at a University. Saying all For-Profit Universities are a Scam or are lower quality is simply illogical. There are a few yes, but those kinds of wide sweeping generalizations are stupid.
i think people are mad at that fat fucker for ruining that legendary song by one of the greatest performers that ever lived. they are also mad at the way he changed the words. if all religion is true then muslims are right for blowing themselves up for 72 virgins are waintin, its true women are inferior to us, the pope was right, condoms increases the changes of getting AIDS, slavery was right we sinned by abolishing it, e.t.c
@TheKingShakaZulu Exactly. First off, Who the hell is Cee Lo anyways? He's some two bit pop artist with a few mediocre songs. On the other hand you have John Lennon who was one of the greatest artists of all time as well as a great advocate for humanism. Then Cee Lo feels he should take one of this mans most poignant songs and change it to deliver an a. incoherent message and b. message that is completely contrary to the original songs message.
Sorry, I must be missing something obvious. Community college tuition has increased somewhat because there's less funding per student, right? Yet the for-profit colleges are still markedly more expensive. So how is it that students are being driven to the for-profits?
The community colleges are too poorly funded to educate all the people who want to attend them. People are being driven to for-profit schools due to lack of room in community colleges, not higher community college tuition.
I thought that was fairly clear in the story, I don't know where you got the idea of higher tuition causing this.
Basically if the government caught up with modern technology, this is what it would be worth. People are able to charge so much for college because the current system is so outdated. Figure our education system was designed in the 50s and haven't improved since. We spend more on building a football field than computers for every single classroom. My Point being we need charter schools and get rid of the teachers union if the public wants to compete.
@bluefootedpig Really? Why isn't your point "We need to spend less on building a football field and more on computers for every single classroom"? I seem to have missed something for how you got from football fields to charter schools being the solution.
@TheMidwestAtheist The connection is that without competition, schools are able to abuse the system. This corruption would put a normal company out of business but without competition, they can stay in business. Then the teachers union is the one that governs if a charter school can open, and who pays the union? the public school teachers. This is classic monopoly, that is enforced by more or less a gang of teachers who protest anyone who might go up against their godfather.
@hatchbx Can you please get a site that suggests that? The only report I have seen that supports your claim is by the teachers union, saying that high school drop outs who attend an online school perform worse than those that stayed in school. Which really means nothing, you would expect that.
Every other study, and Bill Gates, all support public funded charters schools as doing better. Not every single one, but a higher percentage.
In Canada, my undergrad was like $3500 a year at a major university (not a community college). According to one MSN news article the most expensive University in canada is like $17k a year (though most in the top 9 are still below 7K a year).
@squirrelywrath2 but how much do you pay in taxes for that education? which you will pay your entire life. I mean sure, you listed the cost you paid, but not the total cost. Lets say you work 40 years, and each year you paid 500 in taxes for education. In that case, your education cost 20k + 3,500 x year. Which really isn't much from what a normal state college cost.
@bluefootedpig Actually being the senator for grad students at my current university, I got access to actual figures. The government funded the university 13.5K per student in the province in which I cited (a bit over 12k in the province with the 17k per year university). These figures are available from the ontario undergraduate student alliance.
That said since Canadians benefit as a collective from the the education and research at universities, it only makes sense that everyone chip in.
@bluefootedpig at the very most expensive university in all of Canada, it will cost about that much. At a NORMAL school it will be more like 17k (tuition + government funding) per year.
in the uk universities cost: £9000 ( about $15000) across the board, whether your going to the best uni's (oxford, cambridge, imperial college etc.) or one of the lesser ones. You guys are gettin ripped off!!
@romes98ify So if you go to a shitty college, you are paying 15k, while a shitty college here can cost like 5k. Yes, if you are going to a top or above the 50% line, you are getting a better deal, but if you are stuck at a shitty university, you are being ripped off.
For profit schools are the biggest rip off ever for an inferior product period.They should be completely abolish them for they are substandard and don't care about educating, but making money.
@nash984954 My for-profit college provides a counter-example. There are good and bad for-profit schools just like nonprofit schools. Most of both categories are bad and too expensive.
@nash984954 they are a rip off because of how fucked up the public school/college education system is. Private and For profit school wouldn't be like this if the government wasn't in the way and apart of the problem
Obama is bringing socialism to the US. What we really need are for-profit colleges, for-profit prisons, for-profit traffic enforcement... soon we will have for-profit breathing allowance, for-profit sunlight control, for-profit drinking water... that is the way to go.
No way to compete with production wages, having an educated public doing information work is essential. That is beeing shot down, however because statistically academics are left-leaning. Call me conspiracy theorist, but I really, honestly think that might be the biggest reason
@tanekki Personally I think it's because jobs that deal with information are easier on the body and harder on the brain, whereas jobs that deal with labor or service are harder on the body but easier on the brain. Stuff like programming is the last bastion of jobs-we-have-to-do before robots replace everything, letting people do what they want instead of what they have to. But people are slow to adapt and too many resign themselves to working a job they hate then dying.
@DeJach What is this "it", then, that you think is because of people resigning themselves to do boring shit and die? You responded to a message saying basically the right wants to gut education because educated people generally do not vote for them.
@tanekki The "it" refers to "the biggest reason" in your original comment, which in retrospect seems hard to understand. What you seemed to be saying is that because academics are left-leaning, they value production and labor more than information and capital, but production jobs are dead and information jobs are the future. I think people value production and labor more because they're easier.
Oh look at that, they are hurting the schools that cater to people who are lower income(traditionally). If they keep doing shit like this, there are so many people who would be denied an education. People like me. I went to a two year program at a community college in Southern Mississippi in preparation for a degree program at LSU(where I now attend classes). If I hadn't gone to MGCCC first, I would not be in school now, because that shit it TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE. Another try to screw the poor.
im going to make this happen. im going to give those occupiers of wall street wherever a goal. we want free colleges and or trade schools. you in or out dejach? should i pack an extra lunch or no?
I have a good friend who teaches at a private high school.
It's funny when I see her laughing about all the money she's taking from the parents who pay her salary. I mean it's downright hilarious as she stays up night conspiring with her husband on just the best way to maximize her profits instead of preparing a lesson plan. Really, you should see the two of them conniving on more efficient ways to bilk the school''s customers.
The best part is when they take one of my suggestions.
@UtubeMyAccountName Sounds like a problem with the high school not caring about its students, not with the profit optimizing. There's a deeper problem if the answer to "as a teacher, how can I get more money?" isn't: "by teaching better."
@DeJach I agree with everything you say. Networking now is ten times easier if you are "cool", above average looking girl, or rich because of LinkedIn and Facebook. Go to the right places and you will easily find your future bosses and employers. Get their Facebook and LinkedIn you then "know" that person. College is really just about having the paper and getting verified for future jobs that require a degree
Sidenote: Go to colleges now and you do not see many people talking/networking
@DeJach Guy, that you believe such a scenario could actually take place, scares the hell out of me.
While my friend is actually a high school teacher at a private school, the idea that she could keep her job without providing a good service to her customers is ridiculous.
@UtubeMyAccountName I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Many teachers, whether at public or private schools, keep their jobs regardless because of things like tenure, being buds with the most powerful people in the school, or something else.
@DeJach Yes, tenure. I forgot about that because I was talking about high school. There are a lot of 'wrong' incentives in higher education, tenure among them, and I can see now why you might have thought I was being serious.
I was just trying to make the point that the argument that a for profit school is bad for no other reason than that it is for profit, or a public school is good for no other reason than that it is public, is imbecilic.
@UtubeMyAccountName Of course, I also had some psychological priming since I recently watched the South Park episode with the teacher trying to get fired for being blatantly gay so he would win millions in a lawsuit... But reality is stranger than fiction.
@UtubeMyAccountName - So you mean the for-profit colleges are doing better than the government colleges? Capitalism is only about GETTING MONEY! They DON'T CARE HOW they get their money. Killing people with fake cures? OKAY! Selling dangerous products? GREAT! Selling you a worthless education at inflated prices that will only leech off you the rest of your life? OUTSTANDING!
What part of "PROFIT MOTIVE" don't you get?
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS. They just want MONEY!
All private business exists to make money, so you're not really making a point. It doesn't matter if a businessman cares about his customers. It only matters that he cares about his business, which can not survive unless he serves his customers well (unless he's got a friend in govt).
Taxpayer funded services meanwhile, have no incentive to provide efficient, satisfactory service, since they're pretty much impervious to market forces.
@UtubeMyAccountName "Businesses can not survive unless they serve their customers well" Even the most casual of observations proves you wrong. Businesses can not survive unless they obtain money. They do that by making sure their customers have no choice, little choice, or an inconvenient choice except to do business with them.
@magicpet If you're talking about corporations I'm right with you (that was what I meant by a business with a 'friend in govt'). I was talking about private non-corporate business.
...and all you have to do is look around to realize how devastating the last several decades have been for private non- corporate enterprise (and not even because of unsatisfactory service).
@UtubeMyAccountName - If .005% of the population owned 100% of the land, a feasible scenario in a "free market," then that .005% would have dictatorial authority over their land. And everyone would have to live by Shitty Rules X or Shitty Rules Y. Nobody would be able to create "a new land market" because land does not just magically float up out of the ocean because the free market demands it.
@LeksServices .005% (350,000 world total or 15,500 just USA) owning 100% of the land may be "possible" but it's not possible in any real sense that it could happen. If you own land you own it for a reason: to make money off it. If you own huge swathes of land that aren't being used for anything but someone comes along and offers you market-rate money for the land because they want it for something, you sell. Economics is pretty simple, idiot.
I love how just about every story on this channel is either about job cuts or education funding cuts and then every second story accuses gen y of being entitled/lazy/uneducated/unemployed. Tools.
Obama makes sure you can accrue all the debt and not have to repay it.
The tuitions are going to skyrocket this year much higher than they ever were, because of the new laws that basically forgive most of the debt and allow students to take ever more of the debt without having to fear repaying it.
ANY GOVERNMENT MONEY, any government guarantee for a loan ends up pushing prices up, be it education or medicine, etc.
Large numbers of poorly-educated people is what happens when progressive ideas are used to take over economy and destroy it, turning the nation into a fascist state. You are observing the consequences.
secondary education should be just as accessable as a high school education. that being absolutely free to those who can not afford it. just like public schools. im dead serious. cost to much you say? bull fucking shit. its always the middle class who thinks-what the fuck. i worked my whole life scrimping and saving so i could retire on this 2 mil i saved and now the poor want to take it. no dipshit. no one wants your money. you are not the 1 percent. you do not have multiple billions like some
@DeJach if you make only 300 a year you are small potatoes and you can keep it. if you have multiple billions of fucking dollars you need to fork that shit up.
@RealityVersusEgo Eh, I'd rather make billions and hoard it all than give any of it to the likes of you. =P A lot of billionaires do donate a lot of money but they tend to donate only to things they think deserve it.
@DeJach yeah well id rather stick my 44 down your throat and blow your stomach out your asshole but hey what are ya gonna do you know? oh yeah and dont even start that whole who deserves what bullshit. every single tom dick and harry deserves an education. its a fucking school. not a business. it needs to be looked at like that. just like public highschool. taxing banks insurance companies fucking walmart phone companies-the filthy rich-the price you pay for doing business in america
@RealityVersusEgo My my we descend to violent wishes so fast don't we? I hope you never see a dime of someone else's money, but you're probably already sucking on the great teet of society yes? Let's put it this way: everyone deserves a free education, but no one deserves to freely get the time of someone else to teach them. I'm not totally opposed to taxing businesses because they're not really people regardless of the Supreme Court, just don't tax people.
@DeJach im not proposing that any one should go to their bank pull out cash and stick it in my pocket. especially your broke fucking ass. why would you even think i wanted anything from you? haha as if you have anything i want. listen butt fuck. free public secondary school. and free in respect to how public schools are free to students. of course nothing is free but, god damn i feel like i am explaining shit to a child.
@RealityVersusEgo Well, I'm reasonbly likely to have millions within the next few years because I chose a decent field of profession so you might want me then. But anyway, if your bar for education is public high school I think you need to do some soul-searching on what education really is. You can demand a free shit-sandwich all you want, it's still a shit-sandwich and I don't want any tax money--mine or otherwise--going toward making it.
@DeJach you are going to be wealthy some day? haha well good for you numb nuts. if you only knew. once again. no one is advocating for you to give money out of your measily funds. but since you mention it. sure why not. im talking about big business ass fuck. not your nickle and dime slave labor wage or mom and pop store. dumb ass. and a very large number of extremely wealthy persons have been schooled in the public forum. free college. for every one. just like public schools.
@RealityVersusEgo So you're in favor of not taxing individuals and only corporations? Okay. Not enough money for your plans, but.
Regarding wealthy people who attended public school before college, they usually succeed despite it not because of it. Pre-college school is worthless at getting you a leg-up in any job market, its only real service (that we should keep) is teaching everyone how to read and that's done in elementary and not very well-done either.
@DeJach look guy. free college and or trade school. just like public high school. yes. tax the shit and regulate the fuck out of big business. and the very well off. the funds can come from a number of areas. i obviously can not lay out an entire synopsis of how. but there is plenty of money to fund it. we both know that. and as far as a free public college being a worthless endeavor i would have to call you extremely pessimistic. do you think public schools are a waste of money?get real
@RealityVersusEgo I do think public schools are a waste of time and money after the point where they teach everyone to read and educate themselves. College is similarly wasteful, its two biggest benefits are the network (questionable given modern communication tools) and the piece of paper big corporations demand to get hired. There are 74,098,929 people 18 and under. If you took all the fortune 500 profits in 2010 each of those people would only get about $13k/yr. Enough?
@DeJach you think as a society to teach our children to read write and basic critical thinking skills and then cut them loose? yeah that would be a great country to live in. come on man. you are just trying to be difficult. yes there are problems with public schools. they are not perfect. but to teach the poor to read write and some basic critical thinking skills and basic math then cut them loose by what, the 5th grade is your solution? you dont think that. so dont say that
@RealityVersusEgo I think that would be a better world than the current one, conditional on several other changes being made concurrently. But you're right in that it's not my ideal world--I just think it's a better one. My ideal world is allocating almost all funds and brains to species-level intelligence enhancement (in the sense of enhancing an ant's inteligence to a human's but with humans as the new ants), followed by molecular nanotech making cost of living approach $0.
@DeJach you think we would be better off as a society if only the ones who could afford an education got one. thats wonderful. wait right there while i go get my 44 and shove it down your throaght so i can blow your stomach out your asshole. and have a nice day
@RealityVersusEgo You're so wrapped up in education as synonymous with school. That's such a falsehood. Give everyone a free laptop and internet access, that would do more for mass education than free college.
@DeJach yes. school does not perfectly equate to successful job. i am aware of that. i am aware that some people are just great entreprenuers and do not need a single day of school. HOWEVER. lets get real that is not an excuse to limit opportunities for the poor. that is an exception and not the rule. the rule being education is the key.
@RealityVersusEgo Do you think we can educate people on how to be great entrepreneurs? I'd support that. Especially because entrepreneurs are the only real "job-creators", because they're the only real wealth-creators.
How would giving everyone a laptop and internet access limit opportunities for the poor? I suppose you could throw in free power stations for the homeless, but they have bigger issues given many of them are mentally ill. That's a separate issue.
@DeJach no i do not think handing out free laptops and giving them free access to the internet is synonomous with giving someone an education. come on man. the majority of humans need guidance in their studies. what would plato be without socrates? and as far as teaching people to be great entreprenuers? as their sole education? mmm. no i do not think that is a good idea. yes i think it could be taught to some but i do not think it should be taught to the extent in which i think you mean
@RealityVersusEgo I would agree that it can be tremendously helpful (though not necessary) to have a mentor who says "try this thing" or "try this approach" or "here's a better way of doing this" or "here's something I discovered once". How that translates to being forced to sit for hours at a time listening to shit you don't care about and will instantly forget later, I have no idea.
@DeJach and yes. i also agree that some people do not need any assistance when it comes to learning. but once again. that is the exception not the rule. but we would both agree that it is alot easier almost completely neccessary for the majority to have teachers and appropriate facilities to giude their studies and focus
@RealityVersusEgo There's nothing special about self-educators. The current research seems to indicate that standard public school instills an attitude of helplessness when it comes to learning on your own, but if the kid started in such an environment where they're encouraged to explore and learn what they want they retain that later on. What's the exception is people escaping the brainwashing that is public school for obvious reasons, not that the alternative is exceptional.
@DeJach if you mean that the current state of our education system fosters dependency and or basically turns out good workers or employees in contrast to entreprenuers, yes. i do agree with you. however if you want to make a good soldier you do not give him a knife and then throw him into combat. schools are not perfect but any school i would say is better then no school. and i mean as a whole not counting the exceptions
@RealityVersusEgo The major flaw to your argument I guess is that even among college graduates, people who are in any real sense "educated" are exceptions. They get a job doing something unrelated to their studies and live. This goes back to my desire for not wanting to subsidize a shit-sandwich. If you can come up with a decent way to make people educated in a real sense, we can talk about subsidizing it. Currently college is not such a way. It used to be, quite some time ago.
@DeJach well if nothing else a college degree in anything from anyschool whether it be free public college or private will get one further in accomplishing whatever goals they might have alot eaiser then if they had no diploma at all. youi can not disagree with that. also. like you said. college is not only about the books. its also about the networking. yes people can network many other ways but college makes it a thousand times easier. its not right to limit those opportunities to rich
@RealityVersusEgo I can disagree to extents. Having the paper makes precisely one thing easier: getting your first real job. Perhaps a better use of effort is to forbid companies from disqualifying candidates based on if they have the paper similarly to how they can't disqualify candidates based on age, race, sex, etc. This reduces college to being all about networking, which is becoming less and less valuable since most networking happens out of college these days.
@DeJach i agree with you a hundred percent but i think it would be a lot more practical to give the poor the opportunity to advance their studies then it would be to change the hiring practices of business or getting a loan to start a business ect. but its not just about trying to make them more marketable. how about just for the sake of having an opportunity to learn. like the rich have.
@RealityVersusEgo If all you're talking about is an opportunity to learn, we're back to laptops. Circles are fun. I'm still skeptical that "opportunity" as a quantifiable thing is greater with free public college as-is than with free access to the internet. Of course, if we ignore this issue completely and focus on raising the waterline of poor such that no one needs to work to live and enjoy life, then learning becomes the natural alternative to mindless entertainment.
@DeJach yes. opportunity to learn. thats what its all about. plain and simple. if only the rich kids could go to school and everyone had to try and learn on their own society would be even more fucked then it is now. so why should we limit a college education? thats bullshit and unfair.
@RealityVersusEgo So we're optimizing "opportunity to learn" instead of learning itself, to what end? What not optimize for that end instead? You can feed the extra lunch to someone else who needs it, I've got bigger fish to fry in both food and problems to fix.
@DeJach alright what gives? can someone teach themselves to be a doctor lawyer indian chief by scanning the internet and making lots of friends? no. they need school. the poor need free colleges just like the poor need free high schools and you can not present a reasonable arguement in opposition
@RealityVersusEgo Doctor? Yes. Lawyer? Yes. Indian Chief? Maybe, but I'm pretty sure you're more likely to become one through the internet than through a 4 year bachelor's. To what end are you optimizing "opportunity to learn"? What do most classes have you do? Read a portion of a book anyone can buy, read at the library, read at the book store, or, increasingly, download.
@DeJach really? haha you are going to be that ignorant? fuck the poor. if those motherfucker want to be a doctor fuck em. give them a computer and access to the internet. haha same with lawyers and indian chiefs. haha whatever dude. you dont have a leg to stand on and you sound entirely ridiculous. the poor need free colleges just like the poor need free highschools. thats all there is to it.
@RealityVersusEgo No really? I'd be happy to exist as a counterexample to the claim you can't learn programming outside of college. In fact almost all the best programmers I know of didn't learn it from school and learned it in spite of school. I have other examples for artists and editors, if I looked I could probably find some for lawyers as well.
@DeJach come on guy? you are missing the point. its EASIER to become a doctor lawyer indian chief by attending school then it is to have someone throw a laptop at you with some internet and say have at er. get real. is it possible? ANYTHING is possible. is it neccessary to limit the poors opportunity to get educated? no. it is not. the poor need the opportunity to sit in a classroom just like those who can afford it. want to be a doctor kid? sure. okay heres a laptop. you sound dumb
@RealityVersusEgo Your original claim had nothing to do with ease, it had to do with possibility, so my contention was with the possibility. (And not everything is possible either.) However, if a kid really wants to be a doctor, he'll become a doctor unless he lacks ability, but then public college wouldn't help him there either since he'd flunk out. Again, what end do you have in mind for optimizing opportunity for learning instead of (and at the cost of) learning?
@DeJach no it never had to do with possibility. it always had to do with equal opportunity. and it will never be completely equal obviuosly. is it possible for a kid to learn how to read and write aside from grammer school? yes. does that mean we should take away public schools for poor kids and only allow those who can afford the best opportunities for an education to get one? no it doesnt. free public colleges just like free public highschools. private schools can stay
@DeJach basically thats what you are telling me. no education opportunities for those who can not afford it. if only thoe who could pay for elementary school middle school and highschool went to school and the rest of the population didnt but had to learn on their own how well do you think things would be? only those who can afford to be educated can get educated. the MAJORITY of everyone else has to learn on their own? get real.
@DeJach College, if it is ran as an institution with only academic achievement as it's goal and sole reason for existence, is a very good option. This means teachers should be paid well, those who don't show passion for teaching lose their jobs. Administrators get paid a decent wage, nothing outlandish, and the schools are not backed by private money, but by taxpayer funds. If we can use billions on making bombs and useless stuff like that, we can send people to school for free
@DarkGlitchX How do you propose we make an incentive to keep academic achievement as a goal, and how do you propose making sure "academic achievement" doesn't simplify to GPA? Making something non-profit doesn't magically make this happen. At least with profit as the incentive, in a society that actually cares about education will reward with money those colleges that do better at it and punish those that cut corners.
@DeJach That's just it though, people don't do things for money, not all the time. Some people do things for the sense of accomplishment. There are many ways to add incentive without relying on money. Also, in the age where everyone has some way to put out their opinon for the general public to view, why not ask the students if they are pleased with their education/educator? I'm sure if anyone should be asked it should be them. Along with simple math of did these people either (cont)
@DeJach find employment or open a business or join a research project of some kind that should help determine who is doing a good job and who isn't. Just saying "money will fix the problem" is not very adult or honest. Money can't buy you everything and this has already been proven as For-Profit schools ONLY consider how much money they are making and not the satisfaction of their students/customers. Why continue something that is obviously broke?
@DarkGlitchX Receiving good student surveys isn't a very good way of making academic achievement an incentive. The glory of profit as incentive is it's very easy to reason about and very easy to manipulate. (Disclaimer: I go to one of the few good for-profit schools, clearly they're doing something right since they have high job placement and student satisfaction is high. My personal dissatisfaction is with the college model.)
@DarkGlitchX If the answer to "how do we as a school make more profit?" doesn't consider "increasing the satisfaction of our students/customers" as something important, it's not something wrong with the profit-model, it's something else.
@DeJach What part of "schools shouldn't be for profit" didn't you get? Maybe I didn't type it down so that was how you missed that point...Schools should not be ran for profit, because the company will only think of profit, and if you only think of profit you will not care one bit about the education you are offering or not offering to your customers who should just be students, not customers.
@DarkGlitchX You can say all these applause-lights you like, they don't change reality. Clearly schools need to be incentivized to provide a good service, even public non-profit ones because they suck just as hard. If you start by assuming profit as an incentive, you can build a chain of reasoning on top of that where a school cares deeply about the education it's offering if and only if the education it's offering deeply determines its profit. If it doesn't, something else is off.
@DeJach All you are saying is something else is off, well what is that something else? Is it maybe that people such as yourself think money can solve everything? If you seriously think giving people money or making them work with the idea of making more money is working or will work, obviously you haven't been paying attention to schools and prices for that matter. For profit schools only put people in debt and usually teach at a sub-par level while RAISING prices cause of 'profit'.
@DarkGlitchX The 'something else' requires analysis of a concrete case. So let's take one of your bad for-profit schools (there are good ones). What causes them to raise their price? (Noting that public non-profits also do this.) Because it's profitable. Why is it profitable? Because when they raise their price, they know they'll still get about the same number of students anyway because the gov. and private companies will comply with issuing loans. Solution? End the loan business.
@DeJach While I will agree with you on that point (ending loan business) that still wouldn't solve the problem. Schools would raise their prices anyways, and if I can't pay for education, I can't get educated. If people can't get educated, we will lose more jobs and businesses will look to other countries to hire making us lose even more opportunity. That's why the loan business is supposed to exist, but as you stated they are also part of the problem. Education should be public.
.... Or you could come over to Northern Europe and pay jack shit for your tuition.
Tuuliska 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
the ridiculous prices of college are caused by government intervention.
KingOCleveland 1 month ago
@KingOCleveland want to explain.....
AllThingsGeek1 1 month ago
my point of view/ opinion both republicans and democrats are conservative
TheSilverMoon5 1 month ago
I live in California and the community college here is so cheap, WAAAY cheaper than the one I went to in Pennsylvania (which was still cheap enough so that I had extra left over from the Pell Grant for going there). And I went there for free because I was a foster kid. BUUUUT, you get what you pay for -- which in this case is nothing. (unless you count my free trip to the nuthouse).
CosmicKitten89 1 month ago
Community college is a scam. The government subsidizes it to make the four year colleges more expensive. And by doing so the poorer students are deprived of two years of 4 year experiences - research, social connections, activities, etc. - resulting in diminished opportunities insofar as graduate school and job prospects are concerned.
CosmicKitten89 1 month ago
lol. Devry. Anyone remember this horseshit that used to pollute the daytime and late night TV airwaves? watch?v=1pfCC19djH8
LondonOntGuy 2 months ago
fuck republicans....fuck social evangilican fucker christians assholes selfish rich white bastards i know they will all burn in hell
GollaGandaLova 2 months ago 7
I "attended" DeVry Online. Worst mistake of my life. They really trick you with the advertising. And when you talk to them on the phone, they will say ANY and EVERY thing in order to get you to take out big loans to pay for their shit. Even if you do end up getting a degree from them. You will be in debt the rest of your life, and employers will laugh you out of their office. This trickery should be completely illegal. Someone really needs to put a stop to for-profit schools.
AsmitheAbyss 2 months ago
To me, it's all a scam. I've learned more and have spent less at my local community collage than I did at a for-profit college. I went to a for-profit right out of high school. They gave me two loans which totaled around $20,000 for the semester. Classes were a joke. My English final was "What's your favorite color?" and "What's your teacher's name?" I couldn't answer the latter because though I was there everyday, she spent most of her time showing wedding photos so it was pointless to listen.
QueenNyx 2 months ago
$60,000?!?!?!?!?!?!"?!?!?!?!
samus1225 2 months ago
In Australia we have two completely separate catagories, Universities and TAFEs. A university is what Americans would call College and we pay for it with HECS/HELP, which is a low interest loan from the government paid back as part of tax but only after you start earning over a certain threashold. Tafes are pay up front but they're only about $400 a year full time and they teach trades. There are a few for profit "universities" but they're mostly just a con to lure international students.
tangent272 2 months ago
Ugh tell me about it :/ I'm having so many issues with loans right now it's not even funny.
TheCreeperhunter 2 months ago
how bout this: don't go to college at all. you have the internet, USE IT.
you can even take course material from MIT's entire curriculum FOR FREE.
ocw.mit.edu
eleutheromaniac 2 months ago
@eleutheromaniac People don't go to school for an education they go for a degree.
AlicexMarilyn 2 months ago in playlist More videos from TheYoungTurks
@AlicexMarilyn ain't it the truth. as much as $100k+ for a piece of paper. quite a racket.
eleutheromaniac 2 months ago
Americans should know how much cheaper it is for them to study anywhere in Europe.
Anywhere.
shittyfagg 2 months ago
This makes me sad, I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year and it saved me A LOT of money. This is garbage. I'm not surprised though.
Steanu 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
why do u envy them they didn't pull u to their colleges if u don't want it with that price then f off go open ur own college and make it for free . as long there people would pay for it the price will go higher and higher ^^ so be strong because u live in the jungle sorry of the reality hits u hard XD
Feernea 2 months ago
Do they have programs in the US that enable people that are laid off to go back to school and have the government pay for it? They do in Canada, more specifically, Ontario. So these so-called schools that are for profit are not only scamming students they've duped, they are ROBBING from the taxpayer as well.
Fun fact: Any 'credits' you earn in a private college are NOT transferable to a public college. Nor are they transferable to another private college.
LondonOntGuy 2 months ago
@LondonOntGuy Well, in my state they do [North Carolina]. However, they tend to go to Community College rather than an University. (I completely agree with what you said about for-profit schools)
AmzitheSoldier 2 months ago
@AmzitheSoldier
The way this program is set up here, it's basically a private college or nothing at all. Most public colleges like Fanshawe in London or St. Claire in Windsor have two year programs. There are very few one year programs. A private college comes along and dupes the student into thinking "a one year accelerated program is just as good as one that is two or three years". What they fail to mention is there is a lot left out and very often only cover the basics.
LondonOntGuy 2 months ago
its not that the for profit schools are less effective, its that anyone who gets tricked into going to one just because of advertisements in a community college is already not the kind of person who is bright enough to do their homework. all big decisions in life require a ton of homework, if they cant do the homework for picking a school then why would anyone expect them to actually do their homework to study for the exam.
squiggyflop 2 months ago 11
The reich wing loves for profit colleges, just as much as their love fascist WS and their communist caste society.
They love the "Made in China" equivalent to education' that is: low cost to make, low and useless quality, and sold at a price that requires a high interest loan.
And thats why the cut to C/C, C/C provides a low cost to make, high quality, and often cheaper then a new TV for a semester.
End the reich wing if don't want your kids growing to closet case fascist commies.
pistolpete1st 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
khan academy is FREE!
SuperAtheist 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@2Critical4You Sverige!
khanhogamir 2 months ago
I pay about 250 dollars in tution for a whole year at my university. State university ftw? (it is the same btw for ALL the classes) books is not included off :)
khanhogamir 2 months ago
Education is free in Sweden. K12 is free and you get free school lunches. In college you pay for everything BUT the tuition. Suck on that. #1 Sweden! Sweden! Sweden! hmm... Somehow it doesn't feel as catchy to chant... But we still rule.
2Critical4You 2 months ago
@2Critical4You
Sweden rawks but, here in Australia, I did 4 years of University with an interest free loan from the government. I only had to pay a student union fees. After that, I got another interest free loan to do a masters. Nowadays, I believe that students have to pay a small deposit for each course and the government pays the rest, but people can get another interest free 'HELP' loan to cover that. This is all separate, of course, from student living assistance.
UberNoodleX 2 months ago
@2Critical4You
Higher education used to be free here in Australia too but I'm actually ok with the setup we've got over here (funding for living expenses.. but that's another discussion). Only 1 in 4 people go to university and those who graduate will earn a lot more for the rest of their lives. As one of those 1 in 4 I don't mind paying my way.
But yes, Sweden is better. One of the very short list of countries I'd live other than Aus. (USA somewhere on that list below Romania btw.)
tangent272 2 months ago
I wish I didn't live in a country in which the government pays everybody's university fees with interest free loans!
UberNoodleX 2 months ago in playlist The Young Turks Show January 2, 2012
@UberNoodleX What fucking loan did you get? Stop talking out of your ass.
starcrafter13terran 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@starcrafter13terran You're the one who needs to stick a cork in your ass. Look up Tertiary Education Fees in Australia. Dipshit.
UberNoodleX 2 months ago
Com'on man your just on the couch? what are you doing? Pick up the phone it's easy why do you make it complicated man it's easy?.....
fredguy2 2 months ago in playlist More videos from TheYoungTurks
Comment removed
DejectedPanda 2 months ago in playlist The Young Turks Show January 2, 2012
This has been flagged as spam show
@RealityVersusEgo LISTEN STUPID i GO TO A FOUR YEAR SCHOOL!! I have been trying to tell you that for 3 fucking threads but your too dense to understand English! I was saying paying as much as I pay to got to a real school (as i do) to go to a trade school (as I dont) would be madness. but you are so fucking thick you cant understand my point. RIT is like MIT but in upstate new york! you RETARD HAVE YOU EVER READ ANYTHING?
theymightbe1984 2 months ago
Comment removed
theymightbe1984 2 months ago
In Australia our universities are among the best in the world (I've been to LaTrobe university in Melbourne and met Harvard graduates; they're on par and sometimes not as good, prestige issues aside). For that the course costs about16k per year and Australian citizens can pay that as a guaranteed low interest loan from the government which you pay back only after you start earning over a given threashold. People go to university *if they're smart enough*; wealth is (close to) irrelevant.
tangent272 2 months ago
@tangent272 Well, they aren't rated among the best... The top 50 is mainly America and Britain, not that they don't have good schools. Because it could be cause of more money.
AmzitheSoldier 2 months ago
@AmzitheSoldier
I guess part of what I was trying to get at (re: the harvard graduates I've met) is that when you pay top dollar for an education you might not be buying what you think you are. For instance, a lot of those "top" schools are charging for the prestige of their qualifications, and to be fair you probably will get a better job with a famous university qual than otherwise. But you won't necessarily *know* more, possibly less. Indian quals are notorious for this; morons buying PHDs.
tangent272 2 months ago
I keep on liking the young turk videos....but I usually hate what is being reported. Good reporting. Bad news. =(
WildBuck007 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I go to UC Berkeley and we have Kaplan (for profit college) information office on campus.
loverofbeats 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Private != for profit. For example: Columbia University, Stanford University, Yale University.
MrJordanstech 2 months ago
College is a rip off for most people anyway. TYT constantly shows their ignorance on this matter and it drives me crazy. You can get degrees online from almost every single state school system in the entire country, so whose fault is it that people who aren't willing to do the research end up going to a more expensive, less respected school? For less than $3k, I finished two state college bachelor's degrees using credit by exam and independent study. What community college can beat that?
Ant1Live 2 months ago
@Ant1Live
Arent online degrees toilet paper?
OTs03AS 2 months ago
@OTs03AS Not for people with real skills instead of the crap they try to shove down your throat at traditional colleges. By the way, Harvard offers degrees through mostly online coursework. That's some quality toilet paper right there!
Ant1Live 2 months ago
@Ant1Live
I just heard that employers dont take them seriously
OTs03AS 2 months ago
@OTs03AS Employers who have no idea how the real world works, anyway. Online work is, in general, much more difficult and requires more maturity and focus to finish. Young people don't usually do well with it. Most of the people who do their coursework online already have a career and just need advancement.
Ant1Live 2 months ago
@OTs03AS Also, UConn, UMass, Columbia College (of Missouri), SUNY, Duke, Purdue, Penn State and many other well known colleges offer online degrees. Most state universities do, as well as most community colleges.
Ant1Live 2 months ago
@Ant1Live
Ah well I live in england so I'm not familiar with any of those
OTs03AS 2 months ago
@OTs03AS The University of London has for centuries offered distance education. In UK, there are also Heriott-Watt University, Open University, University of Liverpool, University of West England and University of Nottingham just off of the top of my head. There are probably dozens, maybe hundreds, more.
Ant1Live 2 months ago
Community colleges' admissions standards are so low, that if someone has to resort to a for-profit college, they're probably better off not going to college in the first place. Anyone who has any doubts about that should simply find & watch the Frontline documentary "College Inc", or GAO testimony on to the US Senate (which can be googled & found on CSPAN) about the widespread & systematic fraud being committed by these overpriced, under-performing diploma mills.
GMATveteran 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Only the rich should have the best education. That is why all private schools are to be nationalized and put under democratic control of the communities. Capitalism is good for the 1% and we the 99% must pay the bills of the 1%.
Americans wake up!
UDSS 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Using one example of an ineffectual school doesn't make you correct. Your logical falicy is called correlation doesn't equal causation. Nursing is only one area and those of us who actually have experienced both community and 4-year realize that the majority of the time you get a better quality education at a University. Saying all For-Profit Universities are a Scam or are lower quality is simply illogical. There are a few yes, but those kinds of wide sweeping generalizations are stupid.
sykoperson 2 months ago
i think people are mad at that fat fucker for ruining that legendary song by one of the greatest performers that ever lived. they are also mad at the way he changed the words. if all religion is true then muslims are right for blowing themselves up for 72 virgins are waintin, its true women are inferior to us, the pope was right, condoms increases the changes of getting AIDS, slavery was right we sinned by abolishing it, e.t.c
TheKingShakaZulu 2 months ago in playlist The Young Turks Show January 2, 2012
@TheKingShakaZulu Exactly. First off, Who the hell is Cee Lo anyways? He's some two bit pop artist with a few mediocre songs. On the other hand you have John Lennon who was one of the greatest artists of all time as well as a great advocate for humanism. Then Cee Lo feels he should take one of this mans most poignant songs and change it to deliver an a. incoherent message and b. message that is completely contrary to the original songs message.
senortonyful 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Sorry, I must be missing something obvious. Community college tuition has increased somewhat because there's less funding per student, right? Yet the for-profit colleges are still markedly more expensive. So how is it that students are being driven to the for-profits?
hatchbx 2 months ago
@hatchbx Sshhh, don't try to apply reason to these debates. Profit == bad!
DeJach 2 months ago
@hatchbx
The community colleges are too poorly funded to educate all the people who want to attend them. People are being driven to for-profit schools due to lack of room in community colleges, not higher community college tuition.
I thought that was fairly clear in the story, I don't know where you got the idea of higher tuition causing this.
VitalVampyr 2 months ago 11
Basically if the government caught up with modern technology, this is what it would be worth. People are able to charge so much for college because the current system is so outdated. Figure our education system was designed in the 50s and haven't improved since. We spend more on building a football field than computers for every single classroom. My Point being we need charter schools and get rid of the teachers union if the public wants to compete.
bluefootedpig 2 months ago
@bluefootedpig Really? Why isn't your point "We need to spend less on building a football field and more on computers for every single classroom"? I seem to have missed something for how you got from football fields to charter schools being the solution.
TheMidwestAtheist 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@TheMidwestAtheist The connection is that without competition, schools are able to abuse the system. This corruption would put a normal company out of business but without competition, they can stay in business. Then the teachers union is the one that governs if a charter school can open, and who pays the union? the public school teachers. This is classic monopoly, that is enforced by more or less a gang of teachers who protest anyone who might go up against their godfather.
bluefootedpig 1 month ago
@bluefootedpig hmmmm, the for-profit school teachers aren't unionized, yet they appear to be doing a much worse job on average than union teachers
hatchbx 2 months ago
@hatchbx Can you please get a site that suggests that? The only report I have seen that supports your claim is by the teachers union, saying that high school drop outs who attend an online school perform worse than those that stayed in school. Which really means nothing, you would expect that.
Every other study, and Bill Gates, all support public funded charters schools as doing better. Not every single one, but a higher percentage.
bluefootedpig 1 month ago
In Canada, my undergrad was like $3500 a year at a major university (not a community college). According to one MSN news article the most expensive University in canada is like $17k a year (though most in the top 9 are still below 7K a year).
squirrelywrath2 2 months ago
@squirrelywrath2 but how much do you pay in taxes for that education? which you will pay your entire life. I mean sure, you listed the cost you paid, but not the total cost. Lets say you work 40 years, and each year you paid 500 in taxes for education. In that case, your education cost 20k + 3,500 x year. Which really isn't much from what a normal state college cost.
bluefootedpig 1 month ago
@bluefootedpig Actually being the senator for grad students at my current university, I got access to actual figures. The government funded the university 13.5K per student in the province in which I cited (a bit over 12k in the province with the 17k per year university). These figures are available from the ontario undergraduate student alliance.
That said since Canadians benefit as a collective from the the education and research at universities, it only makes sense that everyone chip in.
squirrelywrath2 1 month ago
@squirrelywrath2 To clarify, are you saying it is about 29k per year to fund a student going to university?
bluefootedpig 1 month ago
@bluefootedpig at the very most expensive university in all of Canada, it will cost about that much. At a NORMAL school it will be more like 17k (tuition + government funding) per year.
squirrelywrath2 1 month ago
in the uk universities cost: £9000 ( about $15000) across the board, whether your going to the best uni's (oxford, cambridge, imperial college etc.) or one of the lesser ones. You guys are gettin ripped off!!
romes98ify 2 months ago
@romes98ify Actually, Oxbridge charge £12,000. But the difference is not as much as in America.
MCsuperChristina 2 months ago in playlist More videos from TheYoungTurks
@romes98ify So if you go to a shitty college, you are paying 15k, while a shitty college here can cost like 5k. Yes, if you are going to a top or above the 50% line, you are getting a better deal, but if you are stuck at a shitty university, you are being ripped off.
bluefootedpig 1 month ago
he said tu kaka lol
utkusarioglu 2 months ago
For profit schools are the biggest rip off ever for an inferior product period.They should be completely abolish them for they are substandard and don't care about educating, but making money.
nash984954 2 months ago 51
@nash984954 My for-profit college provides a counter-example. There are good and bad for-profit schools just like nonprofit schools. Most of both categories are bad and too expensive.
DeJach 2 months ago
@nash984954 they are a rip off because of how fucked up the public school/college education system is. Private and For profit school wouldn't be like this if the government wasn't in the way and apart of the problem
SuperPhoenixFrog 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Obama is bringing socialism to the US. What we really need are for-profit colleges, for-profit prisons, for-profit traffic enforcement... soon we will have for-profit breathing allowance, for-profit sunlight control, for-profit drinking water... that is the way to go.
greenjelly01 2 months ago in playlist The Young Turks Show January 2, 2012
No way to compete with production wages, having an educated public doing information work is essential. That is beeing shot down, however because statistically academics are left-leaning. Call me conspiracy theorist, but I really, honestly think that might be the biggest reason
tanekki 2 months ago
@tanekki Personally I think it's because jobs that deal with information are easier on the body and harder on the brain, whereas jobs that deal with labor or service are harder on the body but easier on the brain. Stuff like programming is the last bastion of jobs-we-have-to-do before robots replace everything, letting people do what they want instead of what they have to. But people are slow to adapt and too many resign themselves to working a job they hate then dying.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach They are cutting education because people don't want to get educated? I think I'm missing a step or two in your reasoning...
tanekki 2 months ago
@tanekki I think you are because I've never claimed that.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach What is this "it", then, that you think is because of people resigning themselves to do boring shit and die? You responded to a message saying basically the right wants to gut education because educated people generally do not vote for them.
tanekki 2 months ago
@tanekki The "it" refers to "the biggest reason" in your original comment, which in retrospect seems hard to understand. What you seemed to be saying is that because academics are left-leaning, they value production and labor more than information and capital, but production jobs are dead and information jobs are the future. I think people value production and labor more because they're easier.
DeJach 2 months ago
Free. Market. FAIL.
LeksServices 2 months ago
Oh look at that, they are hurting the schools that cater to people who are lower income(traditionally). If they keep doing shit like this, there are so many people who would be denied an education. People like me. I went to a two year program at a community college in Southern Mississippi in preparation for a degree program at LSU(where I now attend classes). If I hadn't gone to MGCCC first, I would not be in school now, because that shit it TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE. Another try to screw the poor.
daveyrich89 2 months ago
sometimes I feel like you guys are some of the last intelligent people on this continent...
Narth969 2 months ago in playlist The Young Turks Show January 2, 2012
im going to make this happen. im going to give those occupiers of wall street wherever a goal. we want free colleges and or trade schools. you in or out dejach? should i pack an extra lunch or no?
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
I have a good friend who teaches at a private high school.
It's funny when I see her laughing about all the money she's taking from the parents who pay her salary. I mean it's downright hilarious as she stays up night conspiring with her husband on just the best way to maximize her profits instead of preparing a lesson plan. Really, you should see the two of them conniving on more efficient ways to bilk the school''s customers.
The best part is when they take one of my suggestions.
UtubeMyAccountName 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName Sounds like a problem with the high school not caring about its students, not with the profit optimizing. There's a deeper problem if the answer to "as a teacher, how can I get more money?" isn't: "by teaching better."
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach I agree with everything you say. Networking now is ten times easier if you are "cool", above average looking girl, or rich because of LinkedIn and Facebook. Go to the right places and you will easily find your future bosses and employers. Get their Facebook and LinkedIn you then "know" that person. College is really just about having the paper and getting verified for future jobs that require a degree
Sidenote: Go to colleges now and you do not see many people talking/networking
Stamps600 2 months ago
@DeJach I was being sarcastic.
The argument these commentators are making is that for profit schools don't care about the students, simply because the school is for profit.
It is absurd.
UtubeMyAccountName 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName You've successfully created yet another example of Poe's Law, congratumalations.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach Guy, that you believe such a scenario could actually take place, scares the hell out of me.
While my friend is actually a high school teacher at a private school, the idea that she could keep her job without providing a good service to her customers is ridiculous.
UtubeMyAccountName 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Many teachers, whether at public or private schools, keep their jobs regardless because of things like tenure, being buds with the most powerful people in the school, or something else.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach Yes, tenure. I forgot about that because I was talking about high school. There are a lot of 'wrong' incentives in higher education, tenure among them, and I can see now why you might have thought I was being serious.
I was just trying to make the point that the argument that a for profit school is bad for no other reason than that it is for profit, or a public school is good for no other reason than that it is public, is imbecilic.
UtubeMyAccountName 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName Of course, I also had some psychological priming since I recently watched the South Park episode with the teacher trying to get fired for being blatantly gay so he would win millions in a lawsuit... But reality is stranger than fiction.
DeJach 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName - So you mean the for-profit colleges are doing better than the government colleges? Capitalism is only about GETTING MONEY! They DON'T CARE HOW they get their money. Killing people with fake cures? OKAY! Selling dangerous products? GREAT! Selling you a worthless education at inflated prices that will only leech off you the rest of your life? OUTSTANDING!
What part of "PROFIT MOTIVE" don't you get?
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS. They just want MONEY!
LeksServices 2 months ago
@LeksServices First, welcome to the new year.
All private business exists to make money, so you're not really making a point. It doesn't matter if a businessman cares about his customers. It only matters that he cares about his business, which can not survive unless he serves his customers well (unless he's got a friend in govt).
Taxpayer funded services meanwhile, have no incentive to provide efficient, satisfactory service, since they're pretty much impervious to market forces.
UtubeMyAccountName 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName "Businesses can not survive unless they serve their customers well" Even the most casual of observations proves you wrong. Businesses can not survive unless they obtain money. They do that by making sure their customers have no choice, little choice, or an inconvenient choice except to do business with them.
magicpet 2 months ago
@magicpet If you're talking about corporations I'm right with you (that was what I meant by a business with a 'friend in govt'). I was talking about private non-corporate business.
...and all you have to do is look around to realize how devastating the last several decades have been for private non- corporate enterprise (and not even because of unsatisfactory service).
UtubeMyAccountName 2 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName - If .005% of the population owned 100% of the land, a feasible scenario in a "free market," then that .005% would have dictatorial authority over their land. And everyone would have to live by Shitty Rules X or Shitty Rules Y. Nobody would be able to create "a new land market" because land does not just magically float up out of the ocean because the free market demands it.
Lying idiot.
LeksServices 2 months ago
@LeksServices .005% (350,000 world total or 15,500 just USA) owning 100% of the land may be "possible" but it's not possible in any real sense that it could happen. If you own land you own it for a reason: to make money off it. If you own huge swathes of land that aren't being used for anything but someone comes along and offers you market-rate money for the land because they want it for something, you sell. Economics is pretty simple, idiot.
DeJach 2 months ago
It doesn't make any difference.
You're not going to find a job after graduation anyway.
bobbytiger 2 months ago
for profit colleges are a representation of all whats wrong with this world.
Ioganstone 2 months ago
I love how just about every story on this channel is either about job cuts or education funding cuts and then every second story accuses gen y of being entitled/lazy/uneducated/unemployed. Tools.
jules8903 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
This has been flagged as spam show
Obama makes sure you can accrue all the debt and not have to repay it.
The tuitions are going to skyrocket this year much higher than they ever were, because of the new laws that basically forgive most of the debt and allow students to take ever more of the debt without having to fear repaying it.
ANY GOVERNMENT MONEY, any government guarantee for a loan ends up pushing prices up, be it education or medicine, etc.
romanmir01 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
This has been flagged as spam show
Large numbers of poorly-educated people is what happens when progressive ideas are used to take over economy and destroy it, turning the nation into a fascist state. You are observing the consequences.
romanmir01 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Jeez America. You're all going to end up as batteries and stuck in the Matrix.
filiandsela 2 months ago
I support the Chileans who are demanding free College education. I don't care that their spokeswoman; Camila Vallejo, is a Communist.
She makes more sense than any Teabagged American.
It is also nice that she is very easy on the eyes.
daguzify 2 months ago
There's a for-profit college ad next to this video.
ALLINKNOTS 2 months ago
secondary education should be just as accessable as a high school education. that being absolutely free to those who can not afford it. just like public schools. im dead serious. cost to much you say? bull fucking shit. its always the middle class who thinks-what the fuck. i worked my whole life scrimping and saving so i could retire on this 2 mil i saved and now the poor want to take it. no dipshit. no one wants your money. you are not the 1 percent. you do not have multiple billions like some
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo The cutoff for 1% is about $300k.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach if you make only 300 a year you are small potatoes and you can keep it. if you have multiple billions of fucking dollars you need to fork that shit up.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo Eh, I'd rather make billions and hoard it all than give any of it to the likes of you. =P A lot of billionaires do donate a lot of money but they tend to donate only to things they think deserve it.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach yeah well id rather stick my 44 down your throat and blow your stomach out your asshole but hey what are ya gonna do you know? oh yeah and dont even start that whole who deserves what bullshit. every single tom dick and harry deserves an education. its a fucking school. not a business. it needs to be looked at like that. just like public highschool. taxing banks insurance companies fucking walmart phone companies-the filthy rich-the price you pay for doing business in america
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo My my we descend to violent wishes so fast don't we? I hope you never see a dime of someone else's money, but you're probably already sucking on the great teet of society yes? Let's put it this way: everyone deserves a free education, but no one deserves to freely get the time of someone else to teach them. I'm not totally opposed to taxing businesses because they're not really people regardless of the Supreme Court, just don't tax people.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach im not proposing that any one should go to their bank pull out cash and stick it in my pocket. especially your broke fucking ass. why would you even think i wanted anything from you? haha as if you have anything i want. listen butt fuck. free public secondary school. and free in respect to how public schools are free to students. of course nothing is free but, god damn i feel like i am explaining shit to a child.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo Well, I'm reasonbly likely to have millions within the next few years because I chose a decent field of profession so you might want me then. But anyway, if your bar for education is public high school I think you need to do some soul-searching on what education really is. You can demand a free shit-sandwich all you want, it's still a shit-sandwich and I don't want any tax money--mine or otherwise--going toward making it.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach you are going to be wealthy some day? haha well good for you numb nuts. if you only knew. once again. no one is advocating for you to give money out of your measily funds. but since you mention it. sure why not. im talking about big business ass fuck. not your nickle and dime slave labor wage or mom and pop store. dumb ass. and a very large number of extremely wealthy persons have been schooled in the public forum. free college. for every one. just like public schools.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo So you're in favor of not taxing individuals and only corporations? Okay. Not enough money for your plans, but.
Regarding wealthy people who attended public school before college, they usually succeed despite it not because of it. Pre-college school is worthless at getting you a leg-up in any job market, its only real service (that we should keep) is teaching everyone how to read and that's done in elementary and not very well-done either.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach look guy. free college and or trade school. just like public high school. yes. tax the shit and regulate the fuck out of big business. and the very well off. the funds can come from a number of areas. i obviously can not lay out an entire synopsis of how. but there is plenty of money to fund it. we both know that. and as far as a free public college being a worthless endeavor i would have to call you extremely pessimistic. do you think public schools are a waste of money?get real
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo I do think public schools are a waste of time and money after the point where they teach everyone to read and educate themselves. College is similarly wasteful, its two biggest benefits are the network (questionable given modern communication tools) and the piece of paper big corporations demand to get hired. There are 74,098,929 people 18 and under. If you took all the fortune 500 profits in 2010 each of those people would only get about $13k/yr. Enough?
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach you think as a society to teach our children to read write and basic critical thinking skills and then cut them loose? yeah that would be a great country to live in. come on man. you are just trying to be difficult. yes there are problems with public schools. they are not perfect. but to teach the poor to read write and some basic critical thinking skills and basic math then cut them loose by what, the 5th grade is your solution? you dont think that. so dont say that
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo I think that would be a better world than the current one, conditional on several other changes being made concurrently. But you're right in that it's not my ideal world--I just think it's a better one. My ideal world is allocating almost all funds and brains to species-level intelligence enhancement (in the sense of enhancing an ant's inteligence to a human's but with humans as the new ants), followed by molecular nanotech making cost of living approach $0.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach you think we would be better off as a society if only the ones who could afford an education got one. thats wonderful. wait right there while i go get my 44 and shove it down your throaght so i can blow your stomach out your asshole. and have a nice day
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo You're so wrapped up in education as synonymous with school. That's such a falsehood. Give everyone a free laptop and internet access, that would do more for mass education than free college.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach yes. school does not perfectly equate to successful job. i am aware of that. i am aware that some people are just great entreprenuers and do not need a single day of school. HOWEVER. lets get real that is not an excuse to limit opportunities for the poor. that is an exception and not the rule. the rule being education is the key.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo Do you think we can educate people on how to be great entrepreneurs? I'd support that. Especially because entrepreneurs are the only real "job-creators", because they're the only real wealth-creators.
How would giving everyone a laptop and internet access limit opportunities for the poor? I suppose you could throw in free power stations for the homeless, but they have bigger issues given many of them are mentally ill. That's a separate issue.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach no i do not think handing out free laptops and giving them free access to the internet is synonomous with giving someone an education. come on man. the majority of humans need guidance in their studies. what would plato be without socrates? and as far as teaching people to be great entreprenuers? as their sole education? mmm. no i do not think that is a good idea. yes i think it could be taught to some but i do not think it should be taught to the extent in which i think you mean
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo I would agree that it can be tremendously helpful (though not necessary) to have a mentor who says "try this thing" or "try this approach" or "here's a better way of doing this" or "here's something I discovered once". How that translates to being forced to sit for hours at a time listening to shit you don't care about and will instantly forget later, I have no idea.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach and yes. i also agree that some people do not need any assistance when it comes to learning. but once again. that is the exception not the rule. but we would both agree that it is alot easier almost completely neccessary for the majority to have teachers and appropriate facilities to giude their studies and focus
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo There's nothing special about self-educators. The current research seems to indicate that standard public school instills an attitude of helplessness when it comes to learning on your own, but if the kid started in such an environment where they're encouraged to explore and learn what they want they retain that later on. What's the exception is people escaping the brainwashing that is public school for obvious reasons, not that the alternative is exceptional.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach if you mean that the current state of our education system fosters dependency and or basically turns out good workers or employees in contrast to entreprenuers, yes. i do agree with you. however if you want to make a good soldier you do not give him a knife and then throw him into combat. schools are not perfect but any school i would say is better then no school. and i mean as a whole not counting the exceptions
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo The major flaw to your argument I guess is that even among college graduates, people who are in any real sense "educated" are exceptions. They get a job doing something unrelated to their studies and live. This goes back to my desire for not wanting to subsidize a shit-sandwich. If you can come up with a decent way to make people educated in a real sense, we can talk about subsidizing it. Currently college is not such a way. It used to be, quite some time ago.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach well if nothing else a college degree in anything from anyschool whether it be free public college or private will get one further in accomplishing whatever goals they might have alot eaiser then if they had no diploma at all. youi can not disagree with that. also. like you said. college is not only about the books. its also about the networking. yes people can network many other ways but college makes it a thousand times easier. its not right to limit those opportunities to rich
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo I can disagree to extents. Having the paper makes precisely one thing easier: getting your first real job. Perhaps a better use of effort is to forbid companies from disqualifying candidates based on if they have the paper similarly to how they can't disqualify candidates based on age, race, sex, etc. This reduces college to being all about networking, which is becoming less and less valuable since most networking happens out of college these days.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach i agree with you a hundred percent but i think it would be a lot more practical to give the poor the opportunity to advance their studies then it would be to change the hiring practices of business or getting a loan to start a business ect. but its not just about trying to make them more marketable. how about just for the sake of having an opportunity to learn. like the rich have.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo If all you're talking about is an opportunity to learn, we're back to laptops. Circles are fun. I'm still skeptical that "opportunity" as a quantifiable thing is greater with free public college as-is than with free access to the internet. Of course, if we ignore this issue completely and focus on raising the waterline of poor such that no one needs to work to live and enjoy life, then learning becomes the natural alternative to mindless entertainment.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach yes. opportunity to learn. thats what its all about. plain and simple. if only the rich kids could go to school and everyone had to try and learn on their own society would be even more fucked then it is now. so why should we limit a college education? thats bullshit and unfair.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo So we're optimizing "opportunity to learn" instead of learning itself, to what end? What not optimize for that end instead? You can feed the extra lunch to someone else who needs it, I've got bigger fish to fry in both food and problems to fix.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach alright what gives? can someone teach themselves to be a doctor lawyer indian chief by scanning the internet and making lots of friends? no. they need school. the poor need free colleges just like the poor need free high schools and you can not present a reasonable arguement in opposition
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo Doctor? Yes. Lawyer? Yes. Indian Chief? Maybe, but I'm pretty sure you're more likely to become one through the internet than through a 4 year bachelor's. To what end are you optimizing "opportunity to learn"? What do most classes have you do? Read a portion of a book anyone can buy, read at the library, read at the book store, or, increasingly, download.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach really? haha you are going to be that ignorant? fuck the poor. if those motherfucker want to be a doctor fuck em. give them a computer and access to the internet. haha same with lawyers and indian chiefs. haha whatever dude. you dont have a leg to stand on and you sound entirely ridiculous. the poor need free colleges just like the poor need free highschools. thats all there is to it.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo Why do you think it's impossible to learn to be a lawyer outside of a college classroom but not a programmer or artist or editor?
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach im sorry but you are to impractical to have a discussion with.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo No really? I'd be happy to exist as a counterexample to the claim you can't learn programming outside of college. In fact almost all the best programmers I know of didn't learn it from school and learned it in spite of school. I have other examples for artists and editors, if I looked I could probably find some for lawyers as well.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach come on guy? you are missing the point. its EASIER to become a doctor lawyer indian chief by attending school then it is to have someone throw a laptop at you with some internet and say have at er. get real. is it possible? ANYTHING is possible. is it neccessary to limit the poors opportunity to get educated? no. it is not. the poor need the opportunity to sit in a classroom just like those who can afford it. want to be a doctor kid? sure. okay heres a laptop. you sound dumb
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@RealityVersusEgo Your original claim had nothing to do with ease, it had to do with possibility, so my contention was with the possibility. (And not everything is possible either.) However, if a kid really wants to be a doctor, he'll become a doctor unless he lacks ability, but then public college wouldn't help him there either since he'd flunk out. Again, what end do you have in mind for optimizing opportunity for learning instead of (and at the cost of) learning?
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach no it never had to do with possibility. it always had to do with equal opportunity. and it will never be completely equal obviuosly. is it possible for a kid to learn how to read and write aside from grammer school? yes. does that mean we should take away public schools for poor kids and only allow those who can afford the best opportunities for an education to get one? no it doesnt. free public colleges just like free public highschools. private schools can stay
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@DeJach basically thats what you are telling me. no education opportunities for those who can not afford it. if only thoe who could pay for elementary school middle school and highschool went to school and the rest of the population didnt but had to learn on their own how well do you think things would be? only those who can afford to be educated can get educated. the MAJORITY of everyone else has to learn on their own? get real.
RealityVersusEgo 2 months ago
@DeJach College, if it is ran as an institution with only academic achievement as it's goal and sole reason for existence, is a very good option. This means teachers should be paid well, those who don't show passion for teaching lose their jobs. Administrators get paid a decent wage, nothing outlandish, and the schools are not backed by private money, but by taxpayer funds. If we can use billions on making bombs and useless stuff like that, we can send people to school for free
DarkGlitchX 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@DarkGlitchX How do you propose we make an incentive to keep academic achievement as a goal, and how do you propose making sure "academic achievement" doesn't simplify to GPA? Making something non-profit doesn't magically make this happen. At least with profit as the incentive, in a society that actually cares about education will reward with money those colleges that do better at it and punish those that cut corners.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach That's just it though, people don't do things for money, not all the time. Some people do things for the sense of accomplishment. There are many ways to add incentive without relying on money. Also, in the age where everyone has some way to put out their opinon for the general public to view, why not ask the students if they are pleased with their education/educator? I'm sure if anyone should be asked it should be them. Along with simple math of did these people either (cont)
DarkGlitchX 2 months ago
@DeJach find employment or open a business or join a research project of some kind that should help determine who is doing a good job and who isn't. Just saying "money will fix the problem" is not very adult or honest. Money can't buy you everything and this has already been proven as For-Profit schools ONLY consider how much money they are making and not the satisfaction of their students/customers. Why continue something that is obviously broke?
DarkGlitchX 2 months ago
@DarkGlitchX Receiving good student surveys isn't a very good way of making academic achievement an incentive. The glory of profit as incentive is it's very easy to reason about and very easy to manipulate. (Disclaimer: I go to one of the few good for-profit schools, clearly they're doing something right since they have high job placement and student satisfaction is high. My personal dissatisfaction is with the college model.)
DeJach 2 months ago
@DarkGlitchX If the answer to "how do we as a school make more profit?" doesn't consider "increasing the satisfaction of our students/customers" as something important, it's not something wrong with the profit-model, it's something else.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach What part of "schools shouldn't be for profit" didn't you get? Maybe I didn't type it down so that was how you missed that point...Schools should not be ran for profit, because the company will only think of profit, and if you only think of profit you will not care one bit about the education you are offering or not offering to your customers who should just be students, not customers.
DarkGlitchX 2 months ago
@DarkGlitchX You can say all these applause-lights you like, they don't change reality. Clearly schools need to be incentivized to provide a good service, even public non-profit ones because they suck just as hard. If you start by assuming profit as an incentive, you can build a chain of reasoning on top of that where a school cares deeply about the education it's offering if and only if the education it's offering deeply determines its profit. If it doesn't, something else is off.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach All you are saying is something else is off, well what is that something else? Is it maybe that people such as yourself think money can solve everything? If you seriously think giving people money or making them work with the idea of making more money is working or will work, obviously you haven't been paying attention to schools and prices for that matter. For profit schools only put people in debt and usually teach at a sub-par level while RAISING prices cause of 'profit'.
DarkGlitchX 2 months ago
@DarkGlitchX The 'something else' requires analysis of a concrete case. So let's take one of your bad for-profit schools (there are good ones). What causes them to raise their price? (Noting that public non-profits also do this.) Because it's profitable. Why is it profitable? Because when they raise their price, they know they'll still get about the same number of students anyway because the gov. and private companies will comply with issuing loans. Solution? End the loan business.
DeJach 2 months ago
@DeJach While I will agree with you on that point (ending loan business) that still wouldn't solve the problem. Schools would raise their prices anyways, and if I can't pay for education, I can't get educated. If people can't get educated, we will lose more jobs and businesses will look to other countries to hire making us lose even more opportunity. That's why the loan business is supposed to exist, but as you stated they are also part of the problem. Education should be public.
DarkGlitchX 2 months ago