Myers Briggs, Part 5C: Criticisms of the MBTI

[browndyke]

I wonder what your opinions are on the enneagram type test?

[DXAHN]

Hey, I enjoyed your informative post. Thanks.

[yebisublack]

Or you could also show someone contrasting portraits of INTP versus ENFJ (which I'm sure that any self-aware INTP would not agree with) or something more outwardly similar, like INTP versus INTJ, which is likely to create confusion. Another thing is the four letters diguises innate differences between types. People think that INTP and INTJ are very similar types, or J/P axis denotes a function, but is actually more like a product of dominant or auxiliary Te/Fe.

[yebisublack]

I haven't gotten deep into the structure of MBTI, but the axis and ordering of functions is intriguing. Socionics uses the same system but (roughly) inverting functions for Introverts, which doesn't quite add up. Yep, would like to see a double blind conducted on MBTI, but I suspect it could be messed up by a lack of self-awarenes.

[yebisublack]

The point about MBTI measuring awareness rather than strength or intensity of functions gave me pause; it might be possible that I'm consistently scoring (X) simply because I'm more aware of my (X) functions, rather than being more proficient at them. Not a fan of Big-5, mainly because it comes across as descriptive rather than explanatory (similar to Astrology, Enneagram etc). Scores observable behavorial traits, but doesn't explain what makes the person tick, which imho MBTI does.

[yebisublack]

That's a pretty good video, you're clear and informative. No. 3. and 4. are sufficient to dam some of my ethusiasm for Mbti, but I think it provides a comparatively better insight into my personality type than other instruments (Disc, Enneagram, even Big-5). My results were fairly consistent, mainly INTP with INFP once or twice, Type 5 on Enneagram.

[Spectic]

original theory. That's not to say it's entirely comprehensive or reliable in the first place, but without that it is significantly less so. ISFJ isn't just that, it's Si>Fe>Ti>Ne, and that's required to explain the description of that type. For example, an ISTJ can seem like a feeler because sometimes their tertiary Fi can show up strongly, and they will be generally closer to the F dichotomy than an ESTJ who has Fi fourth.

[Spectic]

Hello, I have enjoyed watching your videos, and I too have been doubting the credibility of MBTI (for a long time I failed to notice the flaws), but to the best I can say, I am a borderline INTP/INFP.

Anyway, what I wanted to ask, as it doesn't appear to be so, is are you conducting your criticisms under function theory? The dichotomies that give the types are just symbols given for function sets, and when simplified to letters instead of functions, they lose the integrity that makes up the...

[archerfish123]

Absolutely fabulous post that is well structured and thought out. Thankyou very much

[AkaiAzul]

"...where do they come from" and where are they going? These things, I am going to destroy! (If you catch the reference, a cookie for you).

In all seriousness, thank you for sharing the criticisms of the MBTI, I've been hoping to find some. I think it's a good "screening tool" to get an idea without being able to be dead-on on a person's personality type. I've never heard of "The Big Five" before now and I'll be looking into it as well. Thank you so much!

[fuchsiaheart]

I am a professional singer and I want to help you by letting you know that if you clear your throat constantly, the phlegm will just increase and become even more irritating. It can become a chronic problem. Try swallowing and drinking water instead to keep your throat lubricated. Thanks for your great videos!

[Addle1618]

I liked this video a lot. You seemed to establish your ethos and talk with minimum rhetoric. Thank You :)

[Shigerupwz]

This is amazing. I'm a pretty firm follower of Myers-Briggs, and although I've speculated criticisms in the past, I never have heard so many laid out for me at once. Thank you so much for this enlightening video. (from a fellow INTP)

[EmeraldxFairy]

Thank you for a great video on criticisms of the Myers Briggs test. Very insightful.

I don't know much about psychology, so I can't say much without sounding stupid, but I also think cultural differences will definitely encourage different personalities to be nurtured and emphasized, which would make the Myers Briggs test results change drastically over time. For example, killing is wrong and right depending on the context (ie. military vs. non).

[EmeraldxFairy]

And murderers considered to be psychopaths today may very well have been considered a warrior/war hero hundreds of years ago. Those are extremes, but in general, what is "right" and "wrong" change constantly in society, and so drastically too, that I wonder how or if it would ever be possible to simply classify personalities into groups.

[EmeraldxFairy]

I learned alot from your videos and enjoyed watching them.  Will be looking forward to more videos from you in the future too.

And thank you for the info about OCEAN, it sounds very interesting. I will definitely try it out!

[ventricity]

it´s not something new to point out the problems of myers briggs when it comes to self testing. but, finding out one´s type should be based on theory, not internet test. it is fairly easy to determine one´s personality after a while, not practical, but doable. now, myers briggs say alot more about how people think and it learns acceptance for other people. OCEAN or NEO PI or whatever is terrible biased and gives no intellectual insight into a person

[speakingeye]

You seem like the classic INTP. If the MBTI is fairly accurate without all the scientific proof, is that such a bad thing?

[MarmaladeINFP]

Assuming Introverted functions actually exist within the brain, how would they be tested? An Introverted function wouldn't necessarily be as easily observed in behavior. The most likely way to measure them would be through observations of brain activity.

Ignoring the theory of dichotomously distinct functions, the correlation between MBTI and Big 5 is reassuring. Also, if some people fit type descriptions and some don't, types are still helpful for those who fit.

[Bisotun]

If you have MBTI done by a proper practitioner/consultant then it will be based on your honest thoughts not on your ideals. There are 2 stages which I did: one was a questionnaire type document and the other was a 1-1 practical scenario interview where I was put in situations where I would describe how I would act - there was no right or wrong way. And based on those answers I determined I was I S T P - the questionnaire brought me out as INTJ. The interview was a kind of quality assurance.

[raigekimaru]

I think that mbti has practical applications, we're just not utilizing them. for instance, it would be useful if there were courses to develop cognitive functions (such as Se or Ni). I am an ENFP and I'm trying to learn to be good at fighting, but my Se is horrible (my coordination is terrible and I have no tolerance for strong sensations like roller coasters). I'm also trying to start an internet company and my computers skills are terrible (this would probably be a lack of Ti)

[EarthboundEnigma]

It is still pretty powerful if you type someone without them being tested.

[bigbufobufo]

this was an incredibly well crafted post. well researched, logical and sequential. it helps capture the shortcomings of the mbti. my type has changed over the years initially INFP to INFJ to INTJ. I score strongly on I and N. You bring up a valid point on self-awareness influencing self-reporting. Part of growing up and entering the working world involves honing traits like planning, decision making etc. typical J traits. That may be an explanation for the shift in my type.

[CrackerXZ]

In summary: the MBTI is bullshit. What's the idea with personality tests anyway? You know yourself best. A personality test just uses some of the information you have about yourself and spits it out in an edited form.

[spiritsA]

That's not the summary. It's the summary of barcode's own individual research and the choice with which she structured her talk. Even then, she's not saying MBTI's BS.

[CrackerXZ]

I can't talk for someone else, but after considering all the facts what other result can you possibly come to? Sure, if you give lots if information about yourself you're going to get a somewhat accurate description of yourself, but that's really the only thing these personality tests are good for: some amusement for those who are bored.

[spiritsA]

If that's your interpretation of what you believe it's good for, then that's your conclusion. I can't help but think you're an S, they usually don't see a use for these tests.

[CrackerXZ]

Oh please, you're defending the mbti by using the mbti.. Like christians who defend their god with the bible, just idiotic, but I'm willing to listen. Tell me what the use is.

[spiritsA]

So I'm assuming that not replying to it means you are an S.

You know, from your messages so far, you should learn to respect groups which you don't understand rather than diss it. You'll not gain any allies.

[CrackerXZ]

Well, I assume you aren't very talented in arguing since you always come back to what I scored on a test, what I feel towards other people.. Just tell me why my position is wrong and your is right.

[spiritsA]

Again, dissing others, like always.

Perhaps I'm more interested in your character rather than defending MBTI. I see no point in defending it, nor do I need to prove anything to a 16-19 year old of my 'position'.

I assume I'm right about that age as well.

[CrackerXZ]

As well? I havn't said I'm an S, an inferior, oh mighty N. Just a little last thing.. I once "talked" (youtube chat) to a person who, like you, didn't want to argue his position because those who disagreed with him were just subhuman filth. He was a social darwinist and ended up killing 8 people plus himself at the age of 18. You are most probably not as crazy as he was, but that mentality is just disgusting. Good bye, hopefully you'll find someone else to analyze soon enough.

[spiritsA]

That's about right too then. 16-19 year old often do claim to know killers.

Adiós buddy

[Bisotun]

MBTI has been very useful for me in consciously perceiving my thought processes and how I translate those effectively to other people based on how they might absorb and translate my interactions and discourse. Basically I used to think that I should say things how I think they should be said and if that offended people then that was their problem. MBTI made me appreciate the different ways in which people think and perceive on things and as such I am becoming much more effective as a person.

[goodgod25]

wow, you are really amazing! keep up the good work!:)

[Cessations]

Interesting. I've taken the Myers Briggs test quite a few times, and every single time, I've resulted in INTP. The only time I've come up with something different was when I took the Big Five test, and had that result "translated" into a Myers Brigg result.

[barcode9588]

Keep in mind: 1) MBTI deals with character TYPE whereas the FFM deals with TRAIT, 2) the MBTI and FFM do not test for the same things in both trait distinctiveness and intensity, and 3) translating a trait model of personality into a type indicator is tricky at best, since elements in one does not always have identical counterparts in the other. (Think about trying to cram 10 pigeons into 7 boxes. Some of them will by necessity overlap, but they aren't the same thing, which leads to error)

[Arkanj3l]

@barcode9588 I don't understand the difference between the two. Is there anything you can point me towards for better comprehension?

[WyldFire777]

Something interesting I wish to point out about the Myers-Briggs types is that other philosophers and others in history have classified personality according to 4 temperaments. They are practically the same as the Guardians, Artisans, Rationals, and Idealists, but with different names made up by different people. I'm not sure if you're read David Keirsey's book, Please Understand Me II, but it lists these.

[WyldFire777]

Plato's idea (c340 BC) of the Artisan, Guardian, Idealist, and Rational, correlates with:

Aristotle's Hedonic, Proprietary, Ethical, and Dialectical (c325 AD)

Galen's (c190 AD) Sanguine, Melancholic, Choleric, and Phlegmatic

Paracelsus' (1550) Changeable, Industrious, Inspired, and Curious

Adickes' (1905) Innovative, Traditional, Doctrinaire, and Skeptical

Spranger's (1914) Aesthetic, Economic, Religious, and Theoretic

Kretschmer's (1920) Hypomanic, Depressive, Hyperesthetic, and Anesthetic...

[WyldFire777]

Fromm's (1947) Exploitative, Hoarding, Receptive, and Marketing

and Myers' (1958) Probing, Scheduling, Friendly, and Tough-minded,

respectively.

So certainly, there must be some consistency with this theory of 4 temperaments. I suppose the flaw comes in that the tests are so inconsistant in their results, and other reasons you've already mentioned.

Just wanted to mention that, that the Myers-Briggs types do have some validity to them.

On a side note, I'm an INFP. :P

[roidroid]

the wiki pages on "Humorism" and "Five Temperaments" have similar tables to what you have typed

[barcode9588]

Yep, I got the table from McCrae and Costa's paper. I've referenced the citation in the video. You can check out the article itself if you want, in fact I encourage you to. It's a really interesting read.

[roidroid]

i was referring to WyldFire's timeline list

[barcode9588]

Ah, fair enough. Do check out the article if you have time, though! It's interesting, I promise. :)