He's wrong. People will pay if the fee is low enough and easy to pay for. Look at Apple's app store. The internet has revolutionised commerce and he is stuck in the past. I have spent more on allTunes in three years than in the last twenty years, buying dozens of obscure albums on a whim for $2. Did the RIAA help the artist get the money? No, because they are also stuck in the past.
This is why I boycott kindle and it's like products. It's already killing the book industry, because through the internet people can and will download. It doesn't matter how many laws they pass, people will find a way. People will just download books, put on their Apple Slavepod (which costs 300 bucks and needs monthly maintenance for another couple hundred), the book industry dies, and hardware companies get rich off shelling their plastic crap.
I would never argue with the fact that a writer deserves to be paid for his work. The fact is, most of the people who pirate his stuff wouldn't buy it in the first place. Pragmatically speaking, it is far too hard to stop. You might be able to get a few guys for it but you'll never stop it from happening.
This guy needs to hire a photographer to capture this. I can't hardly watch it or Hear it. No matter what he is saying I heard he had something to say but huh what in the world?
Hmm. I agree with both Ellison and the pot-smoking student. Information does want to be free, but it's the author's decision if he wants to restrict it or not. Our society sets up some weird incentives. You make money by restricting information. That's harmful to society, and ass-backwards, IMO. Eben Moglen's "The dotCommunist Manifesto" pretty much sums up my position on this issue.
Iam a writer and a freelancer and beyond having my articles appear on the official website of the publication they appeared in, they shouldn't be posted up anywhere else.
Even if people aren't making money off of them, they are my work-unless I have signed a contract giving a company rights to my articles.
@MultiSmartass1 Yeah, I got a problem with that. People should should try to be the best they can at whatever they do Many people mistake money as the indicator for how good there work is, but it's often not a good indicator. You should write for the sake of literature and human thought; not only for the money. Though, money is needed, of course :)
@ektrules You got to be fucking kidding me asshole. Are you nuts? "Many people mistake money as the indicator of how good there (sic) work is"-you're confusing literary quality with basic compensation and income. We fucking writers need to get paid! Its as simple as that. And don't hand me that 1 cent a word bullshit that I hear some writers make writing for the internet or $19-25 per text article fo site either. That's chump change! Anybody who is a writer here-get your fucking money! Nuff said
@MultiSmartass1 LOL. I know you gotsta get paid. Of course you shouldn't write for $25/article. That's horrible, and I hope people don't do that. I'm just saying that writing solely for money, and tailoring your work in a fashion just to maximize profit usually results in garbage. Anyways, depending on what kind of writing you do, licensing your work with a copyleft license, providing a free online version, and a non-free print version could increase your exposure and make you more money.
@ektrules Fuck exposure! I have been a writer for 16 years. I have got clips and I have got hard copy samples of my work. This has to do with money. You obviously arent a freelancer otherwsie you would know that you have to be able to write articles that sell and that has nothing to do with "selling out" or "losing your artistic integrity" but doing competant work that can get printed and make you money. Sites dont want to pay shit. The internet is ruining it for us writers pay wise.
@MultiSmartass1 I'm not a freelance writer. But, I was a freelance web developer for a little while; which is a bit different. Web development is best thought of as a service, and custom services can't really be copied. However, I did use and contribute to Free Software tools which can be used, modified, and copied over and over again. If sites don't want to pay shit, fuck 'em. But, the internet isn't going away anytime soon, and it's better to adapt and take advantage of it than ignore it.
@ektrules Freelance web development has nothing to do with this topic. Writing for the internet is fraught with financial land mines since webmaster, owners etc dont want to pay dick.
Writers who write for a cent a word or less than 10 cents a word or even less than $50 bucks for an article online are idiots.
The internet is the new sweatshop for writers and there are too many suckers who want "exposure".
I'll write a blog-that makes no money but gets exposure.
Don't get me wrong, I understand his point. But watching a rich author brag about "taking down" some kid and his aged parents... The kids crime? He really liked Harlan Ellison.
Maybe it's been too long since Harlan Ellison had to beg friends to proof his novels and give feedback. Too long since he did a book reading no one bothered to show up to. I'm honored to have fans. Period.
My best friend , met Harlan at a Comicon convention, and later on helped Harlan sell some very rear paintings. And they're still friends to this day. Ellison -I was told -if you could get know him, is a very gracious man. He's very sick now, I think diabetic. But one of the best writers I grew up with. REPENT ! HARLEQUIN! SAID THE TIC-TOC MAN!
@ottoskidoo It's not a matter of time although it took 4 minutes to find out someone I thought was decent is actually a knob. I'd say that's little time well spent. "Profound" indeed.
This guy is a sacntimonious piece of shit......and comparing theft to piracy(leave your car so I can borrow it for awhile vs someone downaloading his work.) is bollocks.
@spek6 No that's the definition of "Piracy"- the only entity outside a writer that should make money off his or her own writing is the publisher or publication.
hey fight the people in Second Life who steal real artists work, and upload it to Second Life and then sell it as their work, and they DO cash in on it.People work hard and then these SL people steal everything and sell it for their own.
P.S. Also copyright shouldn't be forever. When the original laborer who produced the work dies, then the copyright should end. Actuarial tables show that's about 30 years (after publication), so set the length at 30 with a possibility for renewal if the author is still alive. 30+30 is a reasonable amount of time for the original laborer to earn profit
.
For examplet Steamboat Willie would now be public domain because the original artist Disney died long ago. Plus it's been over 60 years
@natmanprime it does when you realize that when you use someone else's property and distribute and download it without the permission of the people who created it, you're stealing. end of subject. this has nothing to do with journalistic information, this is someone's creative property.
@mwells219 it's not stealing, it's duplicating. You're talking about INFORMATION here. Think about it: what if someone with photographic memory read the book and told someone else? The person listening would then record it and write it all down. THEFT! omg! omg!
The car analogy only works if the person duplicated the car, so the owner still has his car where he left it.
plus the writer's getting a wider readership anyway!
I always said that once I had a more stable job, and had money left for recreation after I paid the bills and sent to my biyearly charity and saved the correct amount, I would BUY something of value made by a writer or artist.
Well I have. I buy 3 cds a year, and have been doing so for the past two years. However, unless someone explains to me where the money goes(with figures, graphs, how much goes to other artists), or I do more research,
I will probably never buy an album for a band that has
Where does the money go? I assume to the record companies, who pay the vendor, all living relatives of the band members, etc. What happens after that?
Too bad Ellison is more interested in having a childish rant than an honest debate. If he were intellectually honest, he would at least acknowledge the fact that perpetual corporate copyrights have destroyed the public domain. These corporate media entities are thieves on a scale which dwarfs the kid in the dorm room whom Ellison so despises. It is they and their legal teams who have created the environment in which people no longer respect the idea of "intellectual property."
@spek6 ..yeah, if he was able to tone down "bad boy" he'd have gotten a lot more run - but why? He's an iconoclast. He should be given more credibility in that he dealt with people on his own terms, often losing, but creating buzz, outrage and cheers.
@955472 How does this make illegally downloading a torrent of a movie, book, or cd without just compensation to the creator of said product alright? Copyright law has nothing to do with the fact that you want something for free, so you steal it.
@spek6 you must have missed the part in the beginning when he says "a generation has been conned by big business to think that all information wants to be free." He is obviously blaming corporations. Please listen more carefully before you criticize.
to be rich or to be poor it doesnt matter. if you work on something, to have someone who has nothing to do with it juts take it and present it wherever they want is wrong
Ellison is great, but he is a bit out of touch, although I agree with him on many points, Im afraid you have to be prepared for you work to get ripped. Also, for a guy who is one of the most prolific writers of the century, he has the SHITTIEST website EVER!!!! go look at it, its so fucking turdified that spambots have taken it over, its positively straight out of geocities
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I'm taking all of Harlan Ellison's work that is minimally decent (not anywhere near enough of it) and republishing it using On Demand Pub and selling it. Books, Mags, whatever. There are enough Ellison Idiots out there that I make good money with it. Especially with my crappy Spanish xlations I do and sell in South / Central America and Spain. If his writing was better, or more Ellison Puds who pay like the current group do, I could make a lot more. Euro Trash is a growing market, too. FU HE
Now, if you could casually walk up to someone's car, and COPY IT, with no cost to yourself and leaving the original intact, then that dumb analogy may be actually a good one.
Good luck with enforcing laws against piracy. Hey, I've got a solution, since obscurity is a bigger threat to artists than piracy, why not just make art for yourself and become obscure? You can't protect your work any more than that, right?
The market doesn't want to pay so much, obviously. He doesn't like that. He wants the government to punish people to maintain his business model. I don't think ANYONE deserves to be rich for a couple days' work.
You speak too broadly. Idiots can have value in the labor force or military.
ok. so this is perhaps an assinine question, but: are libraries pirates too? i mean when i do really need a dime to go to a library, and read the same stuff that i'd find at the bookstore. i'm just wondering what he'll say on the subject of libraries.
I didn't say royalties - I said usage fees. They are also called "lending rights". Perhaps you should learn how public libraries work before you express your ignorant opinion?
You do not know what you are talking about, Public libraries pay an annual fee to lend books. These fees compensate the author for the potential sales lost.
Judging by your other comments on this topic, you are a troll. Probably a child chronologically, as well as mentally. Offensive, but that's common in trolls. I won't bother replying again. I think it's sad you detract from the value of the one sensible comment you made by making obnoxious replies. Maybe you'll grow out of it. Good luck!
Whats interesting is that he is one of the few guys who has the gonads to stand up to the theft we experience as freelancers all the time. Its so common that it's become commonplace. If someone steals my material I will hunt them down and yada yada yada.I guess I'll be getting a call from Seinfeld. The point being this, if all you want is to be noticed then fine but dont come moaning years later when what you have said or done is worth something but you have given away all your rights! dumb f..k
@nigelmarple you never give away your rights, what are you talking about? You write a story, you own the copyright. If you decide to distribute it for free for a period - say, give away a free book with the purchase of another item for the christmas month as a special offer, how are you giving away your rights? You're not.
You own the material - it's up to you whether you wanna give it away, and for how long you wanna give it away, and when you wanna STOP giving it away for free.
@ottoskidoo yeah but not the writers who have the books in the library. i have no idea how books typically get into a library, but I've borrowed Harlan Ellison books. I've never payed to read a Harlan Ellison book, actually, and I'm on a pretty tight budget myself, get paid min. wage and try to support my family, maybe Mr.Ellison should try that out and see if he feels like buying a book he's only going to read once or twice
@ottoskidoo Libraries' materials are purchased or donated and they are not supposed let you make copies except as covered under the fair-use clause of the United States Copyright Law.
@equandodominatio Libraries pay fees to be able to rent the books. Kind of like rental movies. It costs Blockbuster or whoever, a lot more for their one copy of a film than it would a consumer in Walmart. They pay extra to compensate the studio for the fact that most people who rent it won't go on and buy it.
@equandodominatio libraries are non-profits who can buy books in bulk usually, for lower rates. Then people can borrow a copy and read it, then return it.
@equandodominatio Yes libraries are pirating and distributing material without permission, but our culture ignores it simply because libraries have been around forever.
But if the library did the same thing online (allowed you to grab books and read them on your PC), then they'd be drug into court by RIAA or the MPAA and sued to death.
@harleykman sigh. libraries pay for all books they use, but at a reduced rate. it is not the same as people who take moves and music without the permission of the creators. if it's illegal to take it from a wal-mart shelf without paying it's illegal if you take it without paying online.
@mwells219 Well it should also be illegal for a store to sell me (for example) the pile of crap called Transformers 2, and then refuse to provide a refund. Even candy bar makers provide a "satisfaction guaranteed or money back" policy. All you need to do is return the unused portion
.
So since I'm tired of losing money buying/ renting stuff that turns-out to be crap, I watch it for free. If it's bad I haven't wasted my precious wealth. And if it's good (like Babylon 5) then I'll buy it
@harleykman that's a childish way to try and justify stealing. and you still pay for that candy bar first. i suggest instead of sitting behind your computer screen you stealing a physical copy of the dvd and when you get caught just say that you didn't think the movie would be good so you didn't feel you had to pay for it, see how well that holds up with anyone.
@mwells219 You're right. What I should do is hire AIG to go to Congress and beg for a bailout. That's the "adult" way to steal money from taxpayers
.
Corporations make it their habit to screw you and me, the average people. Maybe one day you'll wake-up and realize --- perhaps when you buy a nonworking DVD and the store refuses to refund your money. (It's happened to me many times.)
@harleykman the artist shouldnt even be fuckin mad at the consumer, they should be mad at the corporate exec whose taking all of the money anyways. me and the artist are in the same position - we both have a boss over us who takes most of the money! and we have to scrape to get by! and wtf just cuz i dont have the connections i cant spend all day like harlan ellison writing sotires?! i write my own stories but dont call it my profession cuz i think its fuckin wrong to act like that...
@harleykman ... its like saying im an activist as in thats my profession so i get to spend all day fighting the man and you cant im going to tell you what to do to go along with the movement cuz im mighty fuckin activist person. fuck that
@equandodominatio The libraries have a special rate for buying bulk copies of a book, and then people can check out a book and read it over a length of time (usually a month with the ability to renew) without cost. That is not the same things as people taking a story they have no rights to and posting it on the internet.
@equandodominatio Libraries buy the books that they have out there, and you're not allowed to keep them. It's essentially the same thing as borrowing a book from a friend who purchased it, or reading it at that person's house. But the copy in question was paid for. The difference is that you can't keep it, it has to go back to the original purchaser.
@DIGImmortalPhoto well so yeah how do people who want to put something up for free download get their copy to distribute?? the origin obviously has to be a purchased hard copy in almost all cases. and so then in essence peer to peer sharing is just like a library. 'cept why the fuck should the state be the only one who gets to act as a library!?
@equandodominatio in my opinion, yes. government funded piracy. in some countries authors whos books are sold to libraries are remunerated via royalties, like in my own country, but it's only the superstar writers with a hundred novels on the best seller lists that get those royalties - little writers like myself who struggle to make a living from our work dont get a dime - and we're still expected to give the libraries huge discounts on our books, so I've stopped providing to 'em.
@equandodominatio you're so profoundly stupid... and cruel. I am student and I puked after reading your comment... thanks a lot, now, I'll be starving for next week...
Only if I tried to sell this. I'm sure Harlan and his winged legal monkey minions know this is posted. He gets to lay out his copyright cause to thousands here. I could call him and he'd probably ask why the fuck am I bothering? Harlan's a real mensch.
The man is one of the most ingenious writers of our time. I don't agree with all of his views, but all in all I always make an effort to see his opinion on a book, a movie, or TV series before I partake of them. The man is a sharp toothed philosopher and dreamer of the highest order. Aside from that, he is fucking hilarious.
This is the most telling comment you've made thus far.
You harbor a bitterness and resentment for artists and creative people, and thus have no respect for them and thus steal their work and try to justify your dickheadedness with some pseudo-philosophical bullshit.
Who wants respect? There's billions of people on the planet and hundreds of thousands of 'important' people and artists.
Philosophers don't get paid to philosophise, but in the long term their thoughts make more of an impact than most novels. Not to say there's never been an important novel of course - but the point still stands, most big thinkers die poor, and long before they ever get appreciated for thinking in the first place.
Writing is a shit industry to make a buck off. Why try to?
Because it writing is entertainment and entertainment is very lucrative as long as people don't steal. Philosophers make very little money because the masses don't care about them. The masses do care about being entertaining.
"Profound" excerpt from Harlan Ellison... about Judge Judy and trailer trash. Well, what can one expect from the same guy who wrote Daikatana's script? This is the pinnacle of writing in America today: Harlan Ellison and the guy who thought Superfly Johnson was a good name for a black man. LOL.
Brilliant retort. You're all of 24 dropping anonymous bombshells on youtube. I tried to find a list of your creative efforts but I fail. But I'm sure your online trash talk credits are greater than mine or Ellison's.
And Superfly Johnson was not my chosen name. Just the Superfly part, which rawks. I await your tenure in a creative world. Report back.
yeah, but harlan, if you let them kids steal your shit and recognise that it doesnt really matter, then they will see how cool you are and buy loads of your shit. you curmudgeonly old fuck
Harlan Ellison is almost always right, and this 'free info' crap is ridiculous. INFORMATION that is owned by the government SHOULD be free--because we own the government. Information that belongs to a PERSON is THEIR info, and it is no one's right to just take it.
This whole movement is bullshit. Intellectual property rights are some of the most important laws we have--if the product of one's mind isn't protected, what is?
Either you're smoking the bad shit or listening to The Alex Jones Show or both. Whichever it is....stop doing it.
Don't you know "they" will come and take you for posting such awful things about them?
"They" will send a black helicopter for you and put you aboard the plane for the next "inside job" terrorist attack. You know how the "NWO" works! If I were you I'd step away from the computer and live in a Unabomber shack in the woods for the rest of my life.
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neither is photocopies, computer copies, rips, cams, mp3s or anything else. stop abuseing the word "exact" and by such corrupting its meaning. copyrights are a consciously forced principle, a forced monopoly. giving anything for free (copied or not) should never ever be considered a crime, doing so would be criminal. copying is the core to communication, don't make communication illegal, and don't support any struggle for makeing it such. you'r only makeing the world a worse place to live in.
There's an obvious and fundamental difference between rips, cams, ect. and memories though. Memories are a human response to a work. Copies/cams/rips/mp3s copy the essence of the work, and the object which has been created by an author or authors, be it music, a work of film, or a story.
Memories do not allow people to provide the substance of a work to others...there is still value in the original work that a memory can't transmit to others, so the original work still has worth.
Also, since you say 'giving anything for free (copied or not) should never ever be considered a crime' would you support my decision if I decided to give your computer to someone else for free?
Granted, there's a difference in that giving someone else your computer deprives you of property and the author still retains their original work, but there's still a similarity in that if someone else decides to give away the property of the author for free they are being deprived of something...e.g. the money which they could receive for creating it and which they make for selling the substance of the work (e.g. the words, the music, the pictures they've created).
This principle is the same as with the computer though: the object has material worth and value to you as its owner, therefore only you have the right to decide whether it should be given away for free or not.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 'forced monopoly' by a creative artist over their work. Art is a work of expression, and the artist choses who gets to view their work, when and why.
I was sitting around talking about books and movies with some ladies...and two of them were all bent out of shape about JK Rowling's lawsuit against hte young man who wants to publish a Happy Potter encyclopedia. They were soooo upset because JKR has sooo much money and doesn't need it, blah blah blah blah.
You know...they couldn't *get* it that Harry Potter is her creative property and it's her *right* to protect it. AND SHE SHOULD!
I always hear the argument, "you'd have to be an asshole to file a lawsuit against one of your fans." My response is that Mark David Chapman was a HUGE fan of John Lennon. So was that creep who killed that teenage sitcom actress 20 years back.
Besides, you can read Ellison for free by going to your local library. I was so impressed by what I read from their limited selection that I paid for Strange Wine, Shatterday, Spider's Kiss, Angry Candy, and The Essential Ellison.
You should have bought them as 2'nd hand. Cuting both the author and the publishing company out of cash and still support the idea and ideal of commers. It would also have saved on waste, from printed books being unread and the resources of printing new copies when there's copies allready to be had and read. But then, soon you'll be reading them on your personal paml-computer-phone-media-personal-network-unit (PANs is the future and biz has to roll with the paradigm shift).
I buy his and other writers OOP books second hand.
And I won't buy a PAN for phones are for making calls. I don't need to watch TV, listen to music, or play games on a phone. I have a CD player and a TV. That's good enough for me.
No problem. Bruce Joel Rubin ("Jacob's Ladder") spoke before Ellison. Rubin went over his time limit. Ellison was off to the right of the stage. He finally got pissed and yelled, "Rubin! Get off the fucking stage already!" Classic. Anyway, thanks for posting this video. The whole lecture was great. Ellison is one of the only writers in Hollywood who doesn't wash himself in bullshit on a daily basis.
That was a great moment with Rubin. Anf if anybody out there has a better version of this, I'd love to get a copy. This was a highlight of my life and Harlan was personally delightful.
"All information wants to be free!" Great. Now post your medical records, social security information, and your credit card number on the web. If you don't want me using your credit card to buy myself a nice luxary car than all you care about is your money.
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If someone is caught shoplifting CD's at a store and cries to the arresting officer, "YOU'RE VIOLATING MY RIGHT TO INFORMATION!", I will set aside my opposition to police brutality until the savage beating is finished.
Is there any damn reason these jerkoffs who run these piracy sites aren't in a federal pen?
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This is a very "scarce" video. =p
tybruce37 2 weeks ago
EPIC :D
slightlyonfire 2 months ago
your dumb. a corporate copyright is a negotiation between the CREATOR of the work and the corporation
the creator has full right to fully define how his work is seen and how much it costs
vtran31 3 months ago
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gwales 3 months ago
He's wrong. People will pay if the fee is low enough and easy to pay for. Look at Apple's app store. The internet has revolutionised commerce and he is stuck in the past. I have spent more on allTunes in three years than in the last twenty years, buying dozens of obscure albums on a whim for $2. Did the RIAA help the artist get the money? No, because they are also stuck in the past.
gwales 3 months ago
Kind of ironic that this appears to be a bootleg video made without permission of an event that charges admission.
WalterLiddy 4 months ago 2
@WalterLiddy Charging admission for a speech doesn't create intellectual property.
955472 3 months ago
This is why I boycott kindle and it's like products. It's already killing the book industry, because through the internet people can and will download. It doesn't matter how many laws they pass, people will find a way. People will just download books, put on their Apple Slavepod (which costs 300 bucks and needs monthly maintenance for another couple hundred), the book industry dies, and hardware companies get rich off shelling their plastic crap.
Nagneto 4 months ago
He needs to learn how to speak into a microphone. *PFFT HFFT PFFT HFF PFF TFF!* ¬_¬
pHr33kAcHu 4 months ago
What idiot thinks its a good idea to mess with Harlen Ellison!?
coolsomeXD 4 months ago 2
I would never argue with the fact that a writer deserves to be paid for his work. The fact is, most of the people who pirate his stuff wouldn't buy it in the first place. Pragmatically speaking, it is far too hard to stop. You might be able to get a few guys for it but you'll never stop it from happening.
theloveshineatheist 6 months ago 2
Pirates are assholes and a problem.
It's become far too acceptible to do it. Everyone supports it simply because they like it.
MrBoBoTom 6 months ago
Seems Otto 's got a shakey definition of "profound".
Hugo411 7 months ago
I just downloaded all his books. Fuck with me Harlan you pint sized greedy twat.
nilbud 8 months ago
@nilbud HAHAHAHAHA!
MaxamillianArturo 6 months ago
This guy needs to hire a photographer to capture this. I can't hardly watch it or Hear it. No matter what he is saying I heard he had something to say but huh what in the world?
runtolight 8 months ago
Harlan is a genius - I love his talks!!
dldl43b 9 months ago 2
Hmm. I agree with both Ellison and the pot-smoking student. Information does want to be free, but it's the author's decision if he wants to restrict it or not. Our society sets up some weird incentives. You make money by restricting information. That's harmful to society, and ass-backwards, IMO. Eben Moglen's "The dotCommunist Manifesto" pretty much sums up my position on this issue.
ektrules 9 months ago
Let me tell the idiots on this page something.
Iam a writer and a freelancer and beyond having my articles appear on the official website of the publication they appeared in, they shouldn't be posted up anywhere else.
Even if people aren't making money off of them, they are my work-unless I have signed a contract giving a company rights to my articles.
Don't think this free shit sways me at all.
I write for money.
You got a problem with that?
MultiSmartass1 9 months ago 2
@MultiSmartass1 Yeah, I got a problem with that. People should should try to be the best they can at whatever they do Many people mistake money as the indicator for how good there work is, but it's often not a good indicator. You should write for the sake of literature and human thought; not only for the money. Though, money is needed, of course :)
ektrules 9 months ago
@ektrules You got to be fucking kidding me asshole. Are you nuts? "Many people mistake money as the indicator of how good there (sic) work is"-you're confusing literary quality with basic compensation and income. We fucking writers need to get paid! Its as simple as that. And don't hand me that 1 cent a word bullshit that I hear some writers make writing for the internet or $19-25 per text article fo site either. That's chump change! Anybody who is a writer here-get your fucking money! Nuff said
MultiSmartass1 9 months ago
@MultiSmartass1 LOL. I know you gotsta get paid. Of course you shouldn't write for $25/article. That's horrible, and I hope people don't do that. I'm just saying that writing solely for money, and tailoring your work in a fashion just to maximize profit usually results in garbage. Anyways, depending on what kind of writing you do, licensing your work with a copyleft license, providing a free online version, and a non-free print version could increase your exposure and make you more money.
ektrules 9 months ago
@ektrules Fuck exposure! I have been a writer for 16 years. I have got clips and I have got hard copy samples of my work. This has to do with money. You obviously arent a freelancer otherwsie you would know that you have to be able to write articles that sell and that has nothing to do with "selling out" or "losing your artistic integrity" but doing competant work that can get printed and make you money. Sites dont want to pay shit. The internet is ruining it for us writers pay wise.
MultiSmartass1 9 months ago
@MultiSmartass1 I'm not a freelance writer. But, I was a freelance web developer for a little while; which is a bit different. Web development is best thought of as a service, and custom services can't really be copied. However, I did use and contribute to Free Software tools which can be used, modified, and copied over and over again. If sites don't want to pay shit, fuck 'em. But, the internet isn't going away anytime soon, and it's better to adapt and take advantage of it than ignore it.
ektrules 9 months ago
@ektrules Freelance web development has nothing to do with this topic. Writing for the internet is fraught with financial land mines since webmaster, owners etc dont want to pay dick.
Writers who write for a cent a word or less than 10 cents a word or even less than $50 bucks for an article online are idiots.
The internet is the new sweatshop for writers and there are too many suckers who want "exposure".
I'll write a blog-that makes no money but gets exposure.
Fuck exposure.
MultiSmartass1 9 months ago
He took a fan of his work and treated him thusly?
Don't get me wrong, I understand his point. But watching a rich author brag about "taking down" some kid and his aged parents... The kids crime? He really liked Harlan Ellison.
Maybe it's been too long since Harlan Ellison had to beg friends to proof his novels and give feedback. Too long since he did a book reading no one bothered to show up to. I'm honored to have fans. Period.
lidjungle 9 months ago
@lidjungle no his crime was stealing someone else's work. just like if he stole a copy of the book out of barnes and nobles.
mwells219 8 months ago
My best friend , met Harlan at a Comicon convention, and later on helped Harlan sell some very rear paintings. And they're still friends to this day. Ellison -I was told -if you could get know him, is a very gracious man. He's very sick now, I think diabetic. But one of the best writers I grew up with. REPENT ! HARLEQUIN! SAID THE TIC-TOC MAN!
robertquentincobb 10 months ago
Artists got a right to get paid.
CARDUELIS999 10 months ago 2
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What a miserable stingy cunt. Having read Paingod and Other Delusions (which I bought used, ho ho) I wouldn't even download his shit for free.
molly0000000s 11 months ago
But you'll waste time watching him?
ottoskidoo 11 months ago 13
@ottoskidoo It's not a matter of time although it took 4 minutes to find out someone I thought was decent is actually a knob. I'd say that's little time well spent. "Profound" indeed.
molly0000000s 11 months ago
@molly0000000s Go read some harry potter or robert jordan. Leave the real writing for grown ups.
mwells219 8 months ago
@molly0000000s you're watching him for free on youtube...
ThePantyDroper 8 months ago
@molly0000000s I think you missed the point of what he was trying to say. Well Done.
CrackedButter 8 months ago
As someone who creates content for my living - he's exactly right! People who steal should pay the consequences!
nsmadsen 11 months ago 4
This guy is a sacntimonious piece of shit......and comparing theft to piracy(leave your car so I can borrow it for awhile vs someone downaloading his work.) is bollocks.
MegaLordKratos 1 year ago
As a writer and freelancer, the issue as regards the posting of your work is money.
If someone is making money off your work and you aren't, that's the problem.
Writers have always had to to deal with 2 elements:
1) getting paid
2) Others profiting from your work
Both are bigger porblems than ever before.
If you get 1 than 2 doesn't matter as much.
Writers like us who aren't Dan Brown JKRowling have it tough.
MultiSmartass1 1 year ago 2
@MultiSmartass1
"If someone is making money off your work and you aren't." -- I believe that's pretty much the definition of "capitalism"
spek6 5 months ago
@spek6 No that's the definition of "Piracy"- the only entity outside a writer that should make money off his or her own writing is the publisher or publication.
MultiSmartass1 5 months ago
@MultiSmartass1
A "capitalist" is nothing more than a pirate who has the system rigged in his favor.
spek6 5 months ago
@spek6 You make a good point, the spirit of which I agree with.
However, keep in mind that a pirate is an outlaw against the establishment.
Capitalists are the establishment.
So being a capitalist does mean having the system rigged in your favor.
Unfortunately, we writers have to live within a capitalist system that takes from us more than it gives.
That's why writers have to make sure we get our financially.
We dont want to end up like musicians who dont get paid by record labels.
MultiSmartass1 5 months ago
@spek6 Truly spoken from ignorance.
WalterLiddy 4 months ago
@WalterLiddy
If you ever learn to articulate an actual criticism, I'd love to hear it.
spek6 4 months ago
"FUCK YOU AND THE SNAKE THAT SLITHERED IN ON YO' MUTHA!!!"
I gotta remember that one.
neosoc 1 year ago
I love it when kids in their college dorms download movies, stories, music and claim that 'information should be free' as a defense.
How is ENTERTAINMENT 'information' ????
fucking morons... disgusting thieves... motherfucking assholes.
freeloaders piss me off. The best of it all is that when THEIR work is stolen THEY lose it worse than ANY of us, man.. hilarious!
hcvang 1 year ago
@hcvang how isnt entertainment information ? you are the fucking moron.
nexivdr 1 year ago
hey fight the people in Second Life who steal real artists work, and upload it to Second Life and then sell it as their work, and they DO cash in on it.People work hard and then these SL people steal everything and sell it for their own.
Madelineblooddoll 1 year ago
P.S. Also copyright shouldn't be forever. When the original laborer who produced the work dies, then the copyright should end. Actuarial tables show that's about 30 years (after publication), so set the length at 30 with a possibility for renewal if the author is still alive. 30+30 is a reasonable amount of time for the original laborer to earn profit
.
For examplet Steamboat Willie would now be public domain because the original artist Disney died long ago. Plus it's been over 60 years
.
harleykman 1 year ago
i disagree with harlan.
The free flow of information is stunted by such copyright nonsense.
the donation model emplyed by radiohead, stefbot and various youtube accounts is more appropriate.
If something is considered of value by the reader, money may be donated.
This way the info gets to those who need it, i.e. the poor, so they may be empowered to better their circumstances. Power=knowledge.
The writer gets same money, but a wider readership. A good thing.
The car analogy doesn't work.
: (
natmanprime 1 year ago
@natmanprime it does when you realize that when you use someone else's property and distribute and download it without the permission of the people who created it, you're stealing. end of subject. this has nothing to do with journalistic information, this is someone's creative property.
mwells219 1 year ago
@mwells219 it's not stealing, it's duplicating. You're talking about INFORMATION here. Think about it: what if someone with photographic memory read the book and told someone else? The person listening would then record it and write it all down. THEFT! omg! omg!
The car analogy only works if the person duplicated the car, so the owner still has his car where he left it.
plus the writer's getting a wider readership anyway!
end of storytime
natmanprime 1 year ago
he did ask for him to stop, and the guy told him to eff off he deserved to be sued
jmoney507 1 year ago
Welcome to to the information age!!!
jayelowell 1 year ago
Comment removed
hanshotfirst1138 2 years ago
I always said that once I had a more stable job, and had money left for recreation after I paid the bills and sent to my biyearly charity and saved the correct amount, I would BUY something of value made by a writer or artist.
Well I have. I buy 3 cds a year, and have been doing so for the past two years. However, unless someone explains to me where the money goes(with figures, graphs, how much goes to other artists), or I do more research,
I will probably never buy an album for a band that has
xoxgodofgodsgodxx 2 years ago
been defunct for 5- 10- 15- 20 years.
Where does the money go? I assume to the record companies, who pay the vendor, all living relatives of the band members, etc. What happens after that?
xoxgodofgodsgodxx 2 years ago
Harlan Ellison is great.
eyewitness043 2 years ago 2
Too bad Ellison is more interested in having a childish rant than an honest debate. If he were intellectually honest, he would at least acknowledge the fact that perpetual corporate copyrights have destroyed the public domain. These corporate media entities are thieves on a scale which dwarfs the kid in the dorm room whom Ellison so despises. It is they and their legal teams who have created the environment in which people no longer respect the idea of "intellectual property."
spek6 2 years ago 19
@spek6
Please explain. You have my attention.
wmotamedi03 1 year ago
@spek6 ..yeah, if he was able to tone down "bad boy" he'd have gotten a lot more run - but why? He's an iconoclast. He should be given more credibility in that he dealt with people on his own terms, often losing, but creating buzz, outrage and cheers.
SuperOmnicron 5 months ago
@spek6 f he were intellectually honest, he would at least acknowledge the fact that perpetual corporate copyrights have destroyed the public domain.
That's nonsense. You're just one of those punks looking for justification to steal from other people. Pathetic.
955472 3 months ago
@spek6 f he were intellectually honest, he would at least acknowledge the fact that perpetual corporate copyrights have destroyed the public domain.
That's nonsense. You're just one of those punks looking for justification to steal from other people.
955472 3 months ago
@955472 How does this make illegally downloading a torrent of a movie, book, or cd without just compensation to the creator of said product alright? Copyright law has nothing to do with the fact that you want something for free, so you steal it.
mwells219 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@spek6 f he were intellectually honest, he would at least acknowledge the fact that perpetual corporate copyrights have destroyed the public domain.
That's nonsense. You're just one of those punks looking for justification to steal from other people.
955472 3 months ago
@spek6 you must have missed the part in the beginning when he says "a generation has been conned by big business to think that all information wants to be free." He is obviously blaming corporations. Please listen more carefully before you criticize.
Delision 3 months ago
Wow. The car argument again. Why do people keep skipping room 101?
anythinggnihtyna 2 years ago 2
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sounds like a greedy old dinosaur who has no idea about changing landscapes and business models.
jgrebski 2 years ago
Sounds like someone who wants to get paid for what he produced and the time he spent producing it.
MichaelSHarvey 2 years ago 7
"changing landscapes and business models."
HURF DURF DOWNLOAD FOR FREE
KentAllard 2 years ago 4
to be rich or to be poor it doesnt matter. if you work on something, to have someone who has nothing to do with it juts take it and present it wherever they want is wrong
cKRONIC 2 years ago 7
If a person is famous enough to have to worry about such "pirates," then I would assume that they are wealthy enough to not worry -so much- about it.
EliasCrowe 2 years ago
Ellison is great, but he is a bit out of touch, although I agree with him on many points, Im afraid you have to be prepared for you work to get ripped. Also, for a guy who is one of the most prolific writers of the century, he has the SHITTIEST website EVER!!!! go look at it, its so fucking turdified that spambots have taken it over, its positively straight out of geocities
monkmellon 2 years ago
This guy must be completely retarded if he thinks it's big business that is making kids pirate
Slug99 2 years ago
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I'm taking all of Harlan Ellison's work that is minimally decent (not anywhere near enough of it) and republishing it using On Demand Pub and selling it. Books, Mags, whatever. There are enough Ellison Idiots out there that I make good money with it. Especially with my crappy Spanish xlations I do and sell in South / Central America and Spain. If his writing was better, or more Ellison Puds who pay like the current group do, I could make a lot more. Euro Trash is a growing market, too. FU HE
popper666 2 years ago
All freelancers should unite and say FUCK YOU to these people! I am so sick of dealing with this!! I work, and everyone gets paid but me....
luvhair255 2 years ago 7
I love the car analogy.
229095 2 years ago 6
You would, would you ?
Now, if you could casually walk up to someone's car, and COPY IT, with no cost to yourself and leaving the original intact, then that dumb analogy may be actually a good one.
Would you NOT copy a car if you could ?
karry299 2 years ago
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this guy is a has been- only a has been would give a shit about this stuff
Beanmaster73 2 years ago
Good luck with enforcing laws against piracy. Hey, I've got a solution, since obscurity is a bigger threat to artists than piracy, why not just make art for yourself and become obscure? You can't protect your work any more than that, right?
MrHolipsism 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sorry your business model is threatened, Harlan, but information does want to be free. Authors were never meant to be millionaires.
zz811 2 years ago
Why?
An author can make as much or as little money as the market will pay him for his work.
Idiots, on the other hand, are of no societal value, and are the ones who aren't meant to be millionaires.
JewelChick01 2 years ago 3
The market doesn't want to pay so much, obviously. He doesn't like that. He wants the government to punish people to maintain his business model. I don't think ANYONE deserves to be rich for a couple days' work.
You speak too broadly. Idiots can have value in the labor force or military.
zz811 2 years ago
ok. so this is perhaps an assinine question, but: are libraries pirates too? i mean when i do really need a dime to go to a library, and read the same stuff that i'd find at the bookstore. i'm just wondering what he'll say on the subject of libraries.
equandodominatio 2 years ago
libraries are non-profits.
ottoskidoo 2 years ago
Libraries pay usage fees - look it up.
catcynic 2 years ago 3
Libraries don't pay royalties you jackass!
zz811 2 years ago
I didn't say royalties - I said usage fees. They are also called "lending rights". Perhaps you should learn how public libraries work before you express your ignorant opinion?
catcynic 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Perhaps you should blow me. Libraries do not pay usage fees.
zz811 2 years ago
You do not know what you are talking about, Public libraries pay an annual fee to lend books. These fees compensate the author for the potential sales lost.
Judging by your other comments on this topic, you are a troll. Probably a child chronologically, as well as mentally. Offensive, but that's common in trolls. I won't bother replying again. I think it's sad you detract from the value of the one sensible comment you made by making obnoxious replies. Maybe you'll grow out of it. Good luck!
catcynic 2 years ago
Are mirrors really that expensive?
zz811 2 years ago
Whats interesting is that he is one of the few guys who has the gonads to stand up to the theft we experience as freelancers all the time. Its so common that it's become commonplace. If someone steals my material I will hunt them down and yada yada yada.I guess I'll be getting a call from Seinfeld. The point being this, if all you want is to be noticed then fine but dont come moaning years later when what you have said or done is worth something but you have given away all your rights! dumb f..k
nigelmarple 2 years ago 20
@nigelmarple you never give away your rights, what are you talking about? You write a story, you own the copyright. If you decide to distribute it for free for a period - say, give away a free book with the purchase of another item for the christmas month as a special offer, how are you giving away your rights? You're not.
You own the material - it's up to you whether you wanna give it away, and for how long you wanna give it away, and when you wanna STOP giving it away for free.
hcvang 1 year ago
@nigelmarple ... I always thought he was ripped off. A tragedy, b/c a lot of other writers got material published and made into movies.
SuperOmnicron 5 months ago
they do, in some countries - but they are nowhere near enough to be respectable at all.
hcvang 2 years ago
is that true in Harlan world?
OrbinOz 1 year ago
@ottoskidoo yeah but not the writers who have the books in the library. i have no idea how books typically get into a library, but I've borrowed Harlan Ellison books. I've never payed to read a Harlan Ellison book, actually, and I'm on a pretty tight budget myself, get paid min. wage and try to support my family, maybe Mr.Ellison should try that out and see if he feels like buying a book he's only going to read once or twice
Bizdet 1 year ago
@ottoskidoo Libraries' materials are purchased or donated and they are not supposed let you make copies except as covered under the fair-use clause of the United States Copyright Law.
dannthr 1 year ago
@ottoskidoo Pirating is non-profit (most of them) too jackass.
yzbi 10 months ago
@equandodominatio Libraries pay fees to be able to rent the books. Kind of like rental movies. It costs Blockbuster or whoever, a lot more for their one copy of a film than it would a consumer in Walmart. They pay extra to compensate the studio for the fact that most people who rent it won't go on and buy it.
lughildana 1 year ago
@equandodominatio libraries are non-profits who can buy books in bulk usually, for lower rates. Then people can borrow a copy and read it, then return it.
jmoney507 1 year ago
@equandodominatio Yes libraries are pirating and distributing material without permission, but our culture ignores it simply because libraries have been around forever.
But if the library did the same thing online (allowed you to grab books and read them on your PC), then they'd be drug into court by RIAA or the MPAA and sued to death.
harleykman 1 year ago
@harleykman sigh. libraries pay for all books they use, but at a reduced rate. it is not the same as people who take moves and music without the permission of the creators. if it's illegal to take it from a wal-mart shelf without paying it's illegal if you take it without paying online.
mwells219 1 year ago
@mwells219 Well it should also be illegal for a store to sell me (for example) the pile of crap called Transformers 2, and then refuse to provide a refund. Even candy bar makers provide a "satisfaction guaranteed or money back" policy. All you need to do is return the unused portion
.
So since I'm tired of losing money buying/ renting stuff that turns-out to be crap, I watch it for free. If it's bad I haven't wasted my precious wealth. And if it's good (like Babylon 5) then I'll buy it
.
harleykman 1 year ago 3
@harleykman that's a childish way to try and justify stealing. and you still pay for that candy bar first. i suggest instead of sitting behind your computer screen you stealing a physical copy of the dvd and when you get caught just say that you didn't think the movie would be good so you didn't feel you had to pay for it, see how well that holds up with anyone.
mwells219 1 year ago
@mwells219 You're right. What I should do is hire AIG to go to Congress and beg for a bailout. That's the "adult" way to steal money from taxpayers
.
Corporations make it their habit to screw you and me, the average people. Maybe one day you'll wake-up and realize --- perhaps when you buy a nonworking DVD and the store refuses to refund your money. (It's happened to me many times.)
.
harleykman 1 year ago
@harleykman that is nonsensical. you have yet to make any sort of logical argument that it's okay to steal someone else's creative work.
mwells219 1 year ago
@harleykman the artist shouldnt even be fuckin mad at the consumer, they should be mad at the corporate exec whose taking all of the money anyways. me and the artist are in the same position - we both have a boss over us who takes most of the money! and we have to scrape to get by! and wtf just cuz i dont have the connections i cant spend all day like harlan ellison writing sotires?! i write my own stories but dont call it my profession cuz i think its fuckin wrong to act like that...
Bizdet 1 year ago
@harleykman ... its like saying im an activist as in thats my profession so i get to spend all day fighting the man and you cant im going to tell you what to do to go along with the movement cuz im mighty fuckin activist person. fuck that
Bizdet 1 year ago
@equandodominatio The libraries have a special rate for buying bulk copies of a book, and then people can check out a book and read it over a length of time (usually a month with the ability to renew) without cost. That is not the same things as people taking a story they have no rights to and posting it on the internet.
jmoney507 1 year ago
@equandodominatio Libraries buy the books that they have out there, and you're not allowed to keep them. It's essentially the same thing as borrowing a book from a friend who purchased it, or reading it at that person's house. But the copy in question was paid for. The difference is that you can't keep it, it has to go back to the original purchaser.
DIGImmortalPhoto 1 year ago
@DIGImmortalPhoto well so yeah how do people who want to put something up for free download get their copy to distribute?? the origin obviously has to be a purchased hard copy in almost all cases. and so then in essence peer to peer sharing is just like a library. 'cept why the fuck should the state be the only one who gets to act as a library!?
Bizdet 1 year ago
@equandodominatio in my opinion, yes. government funded piracy. in some countries authors whos books are sold to libraries are remunerated via royalties, like in my own country, but it's only the superstar writers with a hundred novels on the best seller lists that get those royalties - little writers like myself who struggle to make a living from our work dont get a dime - and we're still expected to give the libraries huge discounts on our books, so I've stopped providing to 'em.
hcvang 1 year ago
@equandodominatio Libraries also purchase their books.
gkaiseril 1 year ago
@equandodominatio you're so profoundly stupid... and cruel. I am student and I puked after reading your comment... thanks a lot, now, I'll be starving for next week...
Dokazuj91 11 months ago
@equandodominatio
Libraries pay for the books. The writer gets his royalty.
AnnaSefalik 10 months ago
I completely agree. I have followed him for years. I was going to write more in my previous post but my power went out. I didn't think it got through!
I love his work but I gotta go now because the ticktockman is coming. :)
little1dickens 3 years ago
Repent!
ottoskidoo 3 years ago
If he knew you had videoed this lecture, he'd have a lawsuit against you, also!
little1dickens 3 years ago 10
Only if I tried to sell this. I'm sure Harlan and his winged legal monkey minions know this is posted. He gets to lay out his copyright cause to thousands here. I could call him and he'd probably ask why the fuck am I bothering? Harlan's a real mensch.
ottoskidoo 3 years ago 3
The man is one of the most ingenious writers of our time. I don't agree with all of his views, but all in all I always make an effort to see his opinion on a book, a movie, or TV series before I partake of them. The man is a sharp toothed philosopher and dreamer of the highest order. Aside from that, he is fucking hilarious.
Forysan 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I think you have to be fucked up to be creative. A bad childhood reaps benefits your whole life...
zz811 2 years ago
This is the most telling comment you've made thus far.
You harbor a bitterness and resentment for artists and creative people, and thus have no respect for them and thus steal their work and try to justify your dickheadedness with some pseudo-philosophical bullshit.
Fuck off.
HammerOfDoubt 2 years ago 5
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Yes you've nailed it with your mighty hammer, o eloquent one.
zz811 2 years ago
love harlan's rants
ancalites 3 years ago 2
Who wants respect? There's billions of people on the planet and hundreds of thousands of 'important' people and artists.
Philosophers don't get paid to philosophise, but in the long term their thoughts make more of an impact than most novels. Not to say there's never been an important novel of course - but the point still stands, most big thinkers die poor, and long before they ever get appreciated for thinking in the first place.
Writing is a shit industry to make a buck off. Why try to?
Machao6 3 years ago
Because it writing is entertainment and entertainment is very lucrative as long as people don't steal. Philosophers make very little money because the masses don't care about them. The masses do care about being entertaining.
Drosswolf 3 years ago 4
Brave guy. Writers need to band together and not take this shit. If you don't want respect then stand up for yourself.
jkoff76 3 years ago
Valid points. If you're writing purely for money.
Machao6 3 years ago
dudes cracking me up and he is so right.........
TonyBeazley 3 years ago 3
He's 100% correct.
And today's Artists will NEVER have the prosperity that yesterdays did.
georgerandotti 3 years ago
when have artists had prosperity?
abandonthewolf 3 years ago 3
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And more importantly: why should they be? People with money are assholes.
threedotsdead 3 years ago
Mate artists have allways been poor, only a few SOBs make it big.
almanacofsleep 3 years ago
"Profound" excerpt from Harlan Ellison... about Judge Judy and trailer trash. Well, what can one expect from the same guy who wrote Daikatana's script? This is the pinnacle of writing in America today: Harlan Ellison and the guy who thought Superfly Johnson was a good name for a black man. LOL.
CyborgNinja7 3 years ago
Brilliant retort. You're all of 24 dropping anonymous bombshells on youtube. I tried to find a list of your creative efforts but I fail. But I'm sure your online trash talk credits are greater than mine or Ellison's.
And Superfly Johnson was not my chosen name. Just the Superfly part, which rawks. I await your tenure in a creative world. Report back.
ottoskidoo 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Here's a man who looks in the mirror when he masturbates.
I bet most of these posts defending Ellison are the man in disguise.
zz811 2 years ago
I know, It couldn't possibly be that people disagree with you!
Chradnev 2 years ago
yeah, but harlan, if you let them kids steal your shit and recognise that it doesnt really matter, then they will see how cool you are and buy loads of your shit. you curmudgeonly old fuck
reltonpelton 3 years ago
I don't think I agree with you but, even then, 'curmudgeounly old fuck' is the funniest insult I have heard for a while. So nice one.
indy4ever 3 years ago
Harlan Ellison is almost always right, and this 'free info' crap is ridiculous. INFORMATION that is owned by the government SHOULD be free--because we own the government. Information that belongs to a PERSON is THEIR info, and it is no one's right to just take it.
This whole movement is bullshit. Intellectual property rights are some of the most important laws we have--if the product of one's mind isn't protected, what is?
Salathor 3 years ago
creative properties, registry, bla bla bla. I've copyrighted the word "and" where's my
money?
Theoreticly the copyist is only doing an artistic impression of the work and as such shareing his own art with others.
Soon they'll put every one with a photographic memory in jail cuss they can remember things to well.
READING is a form of copying, sight, smell, touch, taste and so on and on.. Come on when will the brain be subject to the copyright laws?
It's all just horrible.
F4R207 3 years ago
Either you're smoking the bad shit or listening to The Alex Jones Show or both. Whichever it is....stop doing it.
Don't you know "they" will come and take you for posting such awful things about them?
"They" will send a black helicopter for you and put you aboard the plane for the next "inside job" terrorist attack. You know how the "NWO" works! If I were you I'd step away from the computer and live in a Unabomber shack in the woods for the rest of my life.
allenchampagne 3 years ago
The difference is that photographic memories and artistic impressions are NOT exact replicas of the substance of a work.
Using technology to exactly replicated music, movies, games or books is fundamentally different from remembering them.
And no, reading is not a form of copying.
This is astoundingly obvious and you're either stupid or being willfully ignorant so as to justify piracy.
Chradnev 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
neither is photocopies, computer copies, rips, cams, mp3s or anything else. stop abuseing the word "exact" and by such corrupting its meaning. copyrights are a consciously forced principle, a forced monopoly. giving anything for free (copied or not) should never ever be considered a crime, doing so would be criminal. copying is the core to communication, don't make communication illegal, and don't support any struggle for makeing it such. you'r only makeing the world a worse place to live in.
F4R207 2 years ago
There's an obvious and fundamental difference between rips, cams, ect. and memories though. Memories are a human response to a work. Copies/cams/rips/mp3s copy the essence of the work, and the object which has been created by an author or authors, be it music, a work of film, or a story.
Memories do not allow people to provide the substance of a work to others...there is still value in the original work that a memory can't transmit to others, so the original work still has worth.
Chradnev 2 years ago
Also, since you say 'giving anything for free (copied or not) should never ever be considered a crime' would you support my decision if I decided to give your computer to someone else for free?
Chradnev 2 years ago
Granted, there's a difference in that giving someone else your computer deprives you of property and the author still retains their original work, but there's still a similarity in that if someone else decides to give away the property of the author for free they are being deprived of something...e.g. the money which they could receive for creating it and which they make for selling the substance of the work (e.g. the words, the music, the pictures they've created).
Chradnev 2 years ago
This principle is the same as with the computer though: the object has material worth and value to you as its owner, therefore only you have the right to decide whether it should be given away for free or not.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 'forced monopoly' by a creative artist over their work. Art is a work of expression, and the artist choses who gets to view their work, when and why.
Chradnev 2 years ago
Well said. One question though. Should this be done when it comes to criticism (wether constructive or destructive), or only into economic reasoning?
Kafkahead 2 years ago
It should factor in with criticism, I think.
Chradnev 2 years ago
And how shall the creators live?
KentAllard 2 years ago 3
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Funny, that he gets all pissy about his money. Maybe he's just jealous of l ron hubbard.
yuothineyesasian 3 years ago
chuckles.
F4R207 3 years ago
I was sitting around talking about books and movies with some ladies...and two of them were all bent out of shape about JK Rowling's lawsuit against hte young man who wants to publish a Happy Potter encyclopedia. They were soooo upset because JKR has sooo much money and doesn't need it, blah blah blah blah.
You know...they couldn't *get* it that Harry Potter is her creative property and it's her *right* to protect it. AND SHE SHOULD!
hooptastic1 3 years ago
It's really easy for people without money (in comparison to JKR) to sit around and make jusdgement on those who do and are trying to protect it.
Kudos to her...she's has a hard line since book one about the use, release, etc of the Potter books. GOOD FOR HER! She was smart about it.
hooptastic1 3 years ago
I always hear the argument, "you'd have to be an asshole to file a lawsuit against one of your fans." My response is that Mark David Chapman was a HUGE fan of John Lennon. So was that creep who killed that teenage sitcom actress 20 years back.
Besides, you can read Ellison for free by going to your local library. I was so impressed by what I read from their limited selection that I paid for Strange Wine, Shatterday, Spider's Kiss, Angry Candy, and The Essential Ellison.
allenchampagne 3 years ago
Two thumbs up! I totally agree!
hooptastic1 3 years ago
You should have bought them as 2'nd hand. Cuting both the author and the publishing company out of cash and still support the idea and ideal of commers. It would also have saved on waste, from printed books being unread and the resources of printing new copies when there's copies allready to be had and read. But then, soon you'll be reading them on your personal paml-computer-phone-media-personal-network-unit (PANs is the future and biz has to roll with the paradigm shift).
F4R207 3 years ago
I buy his and other writers OOP books second hand.
And I won't buy a PAN for phones are for making calls. I don't need to watch TV, listen to music, or play games on a phone. I have a CD player and a TV. That's good enough for me.
allenchampagne 3 years ago
This is priceless. Someone should give Harlan the Freedom Medal for this. :0)
skywriter33 3 years ago
This is 2003? I saw Ellison at the 2002 Expo (the only reason I went.) I wasn't aware that he spoke there again in 2003.
kaliyugafilms 3 years ago
You are correct, sir. I just noticed I put the wrong year on the clip. Thanks for the clarification.
ottoskidoo 3 years ago
No problem. Bruce Joel Rubin ("Jacob's Ladder") spoke before Ellison. Rubin went over his time limit. Ellison was off to the right of the stage. He finally got pissed and yelled, "Rubin! Get off the fucking stage already!" Classic. Anyway, thanks for posting this video. The whole lecture was great. Ellison is one of the only writers in Hollywood who doesn't wash himself in bullshit on a daily basis.
kaliyugafilms 3 years ago
That was a great moment with Rubin. Anf if anybody out there has a better version of this, I'd love to get a copy. This was a highlight of my life and Harlan was personally delightful.
ottoskidoo 3 years ago
"All information wants to be free!" Great. Now post your medical records, social security information, and your credit card number on the web. If you don't want me using your credit card to buy myself a nice luxary car than all you care about is your money.
allenchampagne 3 years ago
what was that last line? " blank blank yo' momma!"
alexmcvey 3 years ago
"Fuck you and the snake you slithered in on, yo' momma!" Sadly, you can't see Harlan giving me a high-five right after.
ottoskidoo 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If someone is caught shoplifting CD's at a store and cries to the arresting officer, "YOU'RE VIOLATING MY RIGHT TO INFORMATION!", I will set aside my opposition to police brutality until the savage beating is finished.
Is there any damn reason these jerkoffs who run these piracy sites aren't in a federal pen?
allenchampagne 4 years ago
"f someone is caught shoplifting CD's at a store and cries to the arresting officer, "YOU'RE VIOLATING MY RIGHT TO INFORMATION!", I "
Except shoplifting a CD and piracy are different crimes, and different acts.... and piracy is the one with the larger penalties.
travelsonic 2 years ago
I know right? There's way too many people with opinions different from mine running around free in this country.
zz811 2 years ago