this is polyphony. but it is not counterbpoint. It is snippets of sound looped together that serve as backing to a non existant melody in which case it would be homophony......
Agreed. This is not counterpoint. Read "Gradus ad Parnassum" if you don't believe me (or any of us for that matter). Counterpoint has rules that must be followed. Not necessarily the same rules that govern a fugue, which would be the most strictly formatted form of counterpoint, but there are rules that your voices must follow to be considered counterpoint, as opposed to homophony, or simply cacophony.
doesn't sound counterpoint, more so overkill. Don't be too defensive.. which i noticed in this thread. It's not counterpoint in the sense each line is not independent enough to be calle "melodies." I hope this helps.
@ahabadong I agree here that each voice, or line, must have an independent melody; to which this piece each voice, or instrument, is merely a part that is not necessarily independent if on it's own, but only adds up to the overall texture. Is it then contrapuntal in this context, no. But this does not mean that the piece is good or bad, it's merely the dispute of it being classified as contrapuntal.
this is not counterpoint...i know boring comment, but it's not. counterpoint doesn't use harmony at all. It's just independent melodic lines. These lines are not independent at all. They are all repeating and they lose their melodic independence just to fit with one another, a critical mistake in counterpoint...
@benk314 but it's not counterpoint, each line is not independent on it's own, and that's why it can't be classified as counterpoint. Homophonic, yes, maybe even slightly Heterophonic, but more so homophonic.
@hatstalker Don't be such an idiot. Calling a full grown family man a boy shows a futile attempt at disrespect and your ignorance. It also shows that any fool with an internet connection can type a string of hate to someone they don't know anonymously and feel cool about it. Fugues and canons are not the only examples of counterpoint. I made this "tune" after reading the definition of "counterpoint". When I re-read it, it still applies. Petition to change the dictionary if you disagree.
@whoisthewalrus If "rounds" and "canons" are counterpoint, then this is definitely counterpoint. If they are not counterpoint, then this is definitely not counterpoint.
@antsee No need to be snarky. It's just that you said, "In counterpoint, voices have melodic profiles that are independent of each other." Which defines this piece completely, but then you claimed that they are in fact Ostinatos. If I am wrong, I would love to know, and then I will promptly admit it. I love admitting being wrong. It means I get to grow emotionally and intellectually.
@Fizmarble That was an unexpected and mature response! Well, ostinatos can be layered. You might have already heard Stravinsky's early ballets (Firebird and Petrushka and Rite of Spring) described as being made up of layered ostinatos, which is a great description. It's a lot like what you did here (except way more dissonant).
@Fizmarble By "independent melodic profiles," I meant that each voice has its own contour and melodic trajectory. The voices usually don't repeat themselves throughout the piece. (If they do, it's usually in the form of a "ground bass" in passacaglias or chaconnes...which you've probably heard before, even if you don't recognize the names).
@antsee I appreciate your knowledge on the subject of classical music. It seems to me in my ignorance, that there are a lot of names for things that are apparently not so different in classical music. While some, like yourself, understand these terms and recognize them in various pieces of music, I as a classical outsider, read definitions and see the crossover between many terms. Perhaps I should just take this opportunity to concede that this piece falls under several musical headings. No?
@Fizmarble Yeah, good point. I'd also encourage you to look into learning counterpoint...Sure, there are a lot of rules, but once you get going, writing a fugue is almost like playing sudoku.
@Fizmarble The voices don't have to have complicated rhythms, even though this is the norm after the 16th century. The word "counterpoint" comes from "punctus contra punctum," which means "note against note." It's possible to write counterpoint entirely in the same note values (but there are strict rules about which intervals/dissonances are allowed...J. J. Fux called this kind of counterpoint "first species").
Hey, it sounds catchy, but I don't thin you can call this counterpoint. It's more like loop driven music. Counterpoint consists of separate melodies that move off in their own directions but still don't sound dissonant together. The parts in your piece keep repeating, and most of them play the part of background loops/bass. Sounds catchy by the end though. But sorry, not counterpoint.
@wcbroccoli There are no demographics available for this video. And you are the primary contributer. Are you trying to be ironic? I posted this video as an example that is short palatable and instructive. There isn't one positive thing that has come from your comments here. Instead, you have derided me despite me taking the time to share this with others.
Your constant commenting is making this vid look a whole lot more popular than it really is. Let's hear one of your compositions.
@Fizmarble Click on "Views" to see demographics: 188 views, 4 ratings, 1 favorite, 13 comments, most popular /w 13-17 year old males. My only "contribution" has been my comments, which are mostly replies to your comments to me. I don't feel your video is an example of real counterpoint, which I presume was your intent in uploading it, but we can agree to disagree on what is counterpoint. That was really my only criticizm. Would love to provide a short example but don't have the s/w to upload.
The melodies of piece do not have to sound in different rhythms at the same time to be counterpoints. The only requirement is that they not all always move the same interval and direction at the same time. The basic species of counterpoint are 1 note-against-1 note (1:1),. 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, suspensions, and miixtures of these. The distinguishing feature of real countrapuntal music is the independence of lines of MELODY. Boogy riffs are not melody.
@wcbroccoli melody - a rhythmical succession of single tones producing a distinct musical phrase or idea. Short of the definition reading, "including 'boogy riffs'", I think this backs up the rhythmical successions of single tones as in fact being melodies. Dut Dut da da.
@Fizmarble This is the kind of mindless "counterpoint" heard in the popular songs that drone away in the food courts of shopping malls. The music is conceived harmonically, and the so-called melodies are merely the rattling of the notes of chords, in short, boogy riffs. Is "Dut Dut da duh" a rhythmic succession of single tones? Yes. Is it musical ? Only if this is all you know..
@wcbroccoli I'm terribly sorry. When did what is musical become defined as whatever broccoli deems it so? You can dis the vibe all day. The fact is that people love to dance and the music that you seem so bent against, provides them with a means to do that. You are an elitist without a cause. You scoff while the rest of us have a good time. You are a sad vegetable.
@Fizmarble Why do you begin with "i'm terribly sorry"? Are you trying to sound ironic?
I'm terribly sorry, but the issue is not what people like to dance to.
If you find "Dut Dut da da" musical, then you're a sad person. Fortunately, what is musical is not dictated by your cool, trendy, low brow tastes or by what people like to dance to.
Have a good time with "Dut Dut da duh" and keep on dreaming it's counterpoint rather than the mere rattling of notes of a chord to ugly rhythms.
@wcbroccoli It's counterpoint, whether you like it or not. Ugly rhythms being beside the point. It is counterpoint by the definition of counterpoint. I am not defining what's music. I am making it.
This isn't really counterpoint. It's mostly just a chord or 2 with the notes of the chord(s) being doodled. It was conceived harmonically, i.e, the composer started out with the chords and rhythms in mind, and then proceded to doodle the notes of the chords. Counterpoint consists of 2 or more melodies that sound at the same time. "Dut,dut, da, da" Is not a melody; it's just a jazzy rhythm
@tri2061990 Pachelbel's Canon in D is a famous example. The arpeggiated chords that start the song are the melody. They remain constant throughout the song. The parts that follow, become new melodies, but because they are in the same key and follow different rhythms than the initial melody, they are not harmony. Thus, they are counterpoint.
@ABandOfNinjas Do you know what a canon is? How many canonic voices are in Pachelbel's canon? What is an ostinato bass? What is continuo? If you look at the score of the actual canon, there are no arpeggiated chords. Arpeggiated chords are chords, not melody. A counterpoint IS a melody that sounds another melody or melodies. They could all ghave the same rhythms!
Ever heard of note-against-note counterpoint? But they are independent in shape.i.e, contrary motion.
@ABandOfNinjas The start (DABF#GDGA) of what you call "the song" (Pachelbels' canon and gigue in D) is not "the initial melody". It's the 2-measure basso continuo (with an IMPROVISED accompaniment) that is repeated every 2 measures. The "melody" begins in the 3rd measure: F#EDC#BABC#...
this is polyphony. but it is not counterbpoint. It is snippets of sound looped together that serve as backing to a non existant melody in which case it would be homophony......
CireRice 3 weeks ago
This is not counterpoint
markusboyd3 1 month ago
Counterpoint? Where??
cubolab 2 months ago
bro, i dont think that this is bad. its very nice and relaxing. dont mind what anyone else says
hateling666 3 months ago
@hateling666 the dispute is not over it being good or bad but whether or not it is considered contrapuntal.
somnynightin78 2 months ago
@somnynightin78 oh, well, my bad then, yeah, not counterpoint bro lol
hateling666 2 months ago
Love it! Original piece and it IS counterpoint! :)
gmangoyan 4 months ago
Agreed. This is not counterpoint. Read "Gradus ad Parnassum" if you don't believe me (or any of us for that matter). Counterpoint has rules that must be followed. Not necessarily the same rules that govern a fugue, which would be the most strictly formatted form of counterpoint, but there are rules that your voices must follow to be considered counterpoint, as opposed to homophony, or simply cacophony.
link2luke 6 months ago 2
doesn't sound counterpoint, more so overkill. Don't be too defensive.. which i noticed in this thread. It's not counterpoint in the sense each line is not independent enough to be calle "melodies." I hope this helps.
ahabadong 6 months ago
@ahabadong I agree here that each voice, or line, must have an independent melody; to which this piece each voice, or instrument, is merely a part that is not necessarily independent if on it's own, but only adds up to the overall texture. Is it then contrapuntal in this context, no. But this does not mean that the piece is good or bad, it's merely the dispute of it being classified as contrapuntal.
somnynightin78 2 months ago
this is not counterpoint...i know boring comment, but it's not. counterpoint doesn't use harmony at all. It's just independent melodic lines. These lines are not independent at all. They are all repeating and they lose their melodic independence just to fit with one another, a critical mistake in counterpoint...
JamesTR4 6 months ago 3
Reading all the hater's comments gets so tiresome. I wouldn't call it extreme, but it's still counterpoint. Counterpoint != baroque music.
benk314 6 months ago
@benk314 hater comments ?? i see only critics
googlekopfkind 5 months ago
@benk314 but it's not counterpoint, each line is not independent on it's own, and that's why it can't be classified as counterpoint. Homophonic, yes, maybe even slightly Heterophonic, but more so homophonic.
somnynightin78 2 months ago
Who cares if it's not counterpoint, still sounds cool.
danielkirk1 7 months ago
Not counterpoint........ GO listen to a fugue or canon BOY!
hatstalker 7 months ago 2
@hatstalker Don't be such an idiot. Calling a full grown family man a boy shows a futile attempt at disrespect and your ignorance. It also shows that any fool with an internet connection can type a string of hate to someone they don't know anonymously and feel cool about it. Fugues and canons are not the only examples of counterpoint. I made this "tune" after reading the definition of "counterpoint". When I re-read it, it still applies. Petition to change the dictionary if you disagree.
Fizmarble 7 months ago
@Fizmarble You should be embarrassed to still be having these childish tantrums at 32
Itsvideotime 6 months ago
Yeah. I agree with everyone else here. This is not counterpoint, but rather homophonic music. A melodic line with harmony.
IVlr3vil 9 months ago 12
It reminds me of Reading Rainbow... Like when someone was teaching us how peanut butter is made.
ian81tube 11 months ago
@ian81tube I laughed for 10 minutes straight after reading your comment. ; )
sammypark333 8 months ago
I'd not call this an example of counterpoint overkill as much as I'd refer to it as utter shit.
theycallmefibb 1 year ago 7
@theycallmefibb Classic youtube comment. Intelligent discussion be damned!
Fizmarble 1 year ago 3
@Fizmarble agreed. good demonstration man this is class A.
ArtFormTV 10 months ago
This isn't counterpoint.
whoisthewalrus 1 year ago 6
@whoisthewalrus If "rounds" and "canons" are counterpoint, then this is definitely counterpoint. If they are not counterpoint, then this is definitely not counterpoint.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
In counterpoint, voices have melodic profiles that are independent of each other. This is a series of ostinatos. Diatonic ones, at that.
antsee 1 year ago
@antsee Ostinatos are not overlapping, when that happens, it's called Counterpoint.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble I don't even know how to reply to that. Well, it's clear now that you will never be proved wrong. Congrats
antsee 1 year ago
@antsee No need to be snarky. It's just that you said, "In counterpoint, voices have melodic profiles that are independent of each other." Which defines this piece completely, but then you claimed that they are in fact Ostinatos. If I am wrong, I would love to know, and then I will promptly admit it. I love admitting being wrong. It means I get to grow emotionally and intellectually.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble That was an unexpected and mature response! Well, ostinatos can be layered. You might have already heard Stravinsky's early ballets (Firebird and Petrushka and Rite of Spring) described as being made up of layered ostinatos, which is a great description. It's a lot like what you did here (except way more dissonant).
antsee 1 year ago
@Fizmarble By "independent melodic profiles," I meant that each voice has its own contour and melodic trajectory. The voices usually don't repeat themselves throughout the piece. (If they do, it's usually in the form of a "ground bass" in passacaglias or chaconnes...which you've probably heard before, even if you don't recognize the names).
antsee 1 year ago
@antsee I appreciate your knowledge on the subject of classical music. It seems to me in my ignorance, that there are a lot of names for things that are apparently not so different in classical music. While some, like yourself, understand these terms and recognize them in various pieces of music, I as a classical outsider, read definitions and see the crossover between many terms. Perhaps I should just take this opportunity to concede that this piece falls under several musical headings. No?
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble Yeah, good point. I'd also encourage you to look into learning counterpoint...Sure, there are a lot of rules, but once you get going, writing a fugue is almost like playing sudoku.
antsee 1 year ago
@Fizmarble The voices don't have to have complicated rhythms, even though this is the norm after the 16th century. The word "counterpoint" comes from "punctus contra punctum," which means "note against note." It's possible to write counterpoint entirely in the same note values (but there are strict rules about which intervals/dissonances are allowed...J. J. Fux called this kind of counterpoint "first species").
antsee 1 year ago
@Fizmarble (And yeah, that's his actual name. Fux. lolol)
antsee 1 year ago
i see your point with this video..What software is used?looks cool
lyfizluv 1 year ago
@lyfizluv Ableton Live is my sequencer of choice.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble Thanks, and thanks for posting.It helps to be able to run across things like this..
lyfizluv 1 year ago
Hey, it sounds catchy, but I don't thin you can call this counterpoint. It's more like loop driven music. Counterpoint consists of separate melodies that move off in their own directions but still don't sound dissonant together. The parts in your piece keep repeating, and most of them play the part of background loops/bass. Sounds catchy by the end though. But sorry, not counterpoint.
ckannan90 1 year ago
I see from the stats that this video is most popular with males, age 13-17. Who knew? LOL
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@wcbroccoli There are no demographics available for this video. And you are the primary contributer. Are you trying to be ironic? I posted this video as an example that is short palatable and instructive. There isn't one positive thing that has come from your comments here. Instead, you have derided me despite me taking the time to share this with others.
Your constant commenting is making this vid look a whole lot more popular than it really is. Let's hear one of your compositions.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble Click on "Views" to see demographics: 188 views, 4 ratings, 1 favorite, 13 comments, most popular /w 13-17 year old males. My only "contribution" has been my comments, which are mostly replies to your comments to me. I don't feel your video is an example of real counterpoint, which I presume was your intent in uploading it, but we can agree to disagree on what is counterpoint. That was really my only criticizm. Would love to provide a short example but don't have the s/w to upload.
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@Fizmarble To hear a really excellent example of 3-part counterpoint, append the following to the YouTube URL:
/watch?v=MJSmL97FZ8k&playnext=1&videos=C7cWzPy_OMM&fmt=18
Sorry, no boogy riffs. :)
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
Here's a YouTube example of real counterpoint:
/watch?v=MJSmL97FZ8k&fmt=18
Real melodies that actually go somewhere -- melodically, harmonically and dramatically.
Not just a drone, a canned rhythm section with a canned accompanment and a loud, annoying bass, all repeating in a loop..
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
The melodies of piece do not have to sound in different rhythms at the same time to be counterpoints. The only requirement is that they not all always move the same interval and direction at the same time. The basic species of counterpoint are 1 note-against-1 note (1:1),. 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, suspensions, and miixtures of these. The distinguishing feature of real countrapuntal music is the independence of lines of MELODY. Boogy riffs are not melody.
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@wcbroccoli melody - a rhythmical succession of single tones producing a distinct musical phrase or idea. Short of the definition reading, "including 'boogy riffs'", I think this backs up the rhythmical successions of single tones as in fact being melodies. Dut Dut da da.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble This is the kind of mindless "counterpoint" heard in the popular songs that drone away in the food courts of shopping malls. The music is conceived harmonically, and the so-called melodies are merely the rattling of the notes of chords, in short, boogy riffs. Is "Dut Dut da duh" a rhythmic succession of single tones? Yes. Is it musical ? Only if this is all you know..
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@wcbroccoli I'm terribly sorry. When did what is musical become defined as whatever broccoli deems it so? You can dis the vibe all day. The fact is that people love to dance and the music that you seem so bent against, provides them with a means to do that. You are an elitist without a cause. You scoff while the rest of us have a good time. You are a sad vegetable.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble Why do you begin with "i'm terribly sorry"? Are you trying to sound ironic?
I'm terribly sorry, but the issue is not what people like to dance to.
If you find "Dut Dut da da" musical, then you're a sad person. Fortunately, what is musical is not dictated by your cool, trendy, low brow tastes or by what people like to dance to.
Have a good time with "Dut Dut da duh" and keep on dreaming it's counterpoint rather than the mere rattling of notes of a chord to ugly rhythms.
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@wcbroccoli It's counterpoint, whether you like it or not. Ugly rhythms being beside the point. It is counterpoint by the definition of counterpoint. I am not defining what's music. I am making it.
Fizmarble 1 year ago
@Fizmarble Merely rattling the notes of a chord does not make counterpoint.
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
This isn't really counterpoint. It's mostly just a chord or 2 with the notes of the chord(s) being doodled. It was conceived harmonically, i.e, the composer started out with the chords and rhythms in mind, and then proceded to doodle the notes of the chords. Counterpoint consists of 2 or more melodies that sound at the same time. "Dut,dut, da, da" Is not a melody; it's just a jazzy rhythm
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
thanks
can you give me a sample from some classical work using counterpoint?
tri2061990 1 year ago
@tri2061990 Pachelbel's Canon in D is a famous example. The arpeggiated chords that start the song are the melody. They remain constant throughout the song. The parts that follow, become new melodies, but because they are in the same key and follow different rhythms than the initial melody, they are not harmony. Thus, they are counterpoint.
ABandOfNinjas 1 year ago
@ABandOfNinjas Do you know what a canon is? How many canonic voices are in Pachelbel's canon? What is an ostinato bass? What is continuo? If you look at the score of the actual canon, there are no arpeggiated chords. Arpeggiated chords are chords, not melody. A counterpoint IS a melody that sounds another melody or melodies. They could all ghave the same rhythms!
Ever heard of note-against-note counterpoint? But they are independent in shape.i.e, contrary motion.
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@ABandOfNinjas The start (DABF#GDGA) of what you call "the song" (Pachelbels' canon and gigue in D) is not "the initial melody". It's the 2-measure basso continuo (with an IMPROVISED accompaniment) that is repeated every 2 measures. The "melody" begins in the 3rd measure: F#EDC#BABC#...
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
@tri2061990 "Classical work" just means a work composed in the past.
Searh on Bach for examples.
wcbroccoli 1 year ago
Thanks. More than anything it was written as an example of counterpoint. And what better way, than to use an extreme example?
Fizmarble 1 year ago
Even though it's overkill when it comes to counterpoint writing, I must admit that it's still pretty cool. :) It had a cool funky beat.
planclops 1 year ago