Everyone has faith of some sort, it's not really something that is grounded in the confines of logic. Especially if the subject matter is not something that a lot of people really pay attention to and is just about as ambiguous in historical evidence as it is whored-out by the social media. A lot of the historical documentation on the ninja have been very elusive and expensive and haven't been translated to English until very recently. However, ignorance is never justified.
Maybe this was a good thing, before I knew little to nothing about the ninja. Only what I was spoon-fed by media outlets, here-say, half-truths, and an early childhood obsession. After 14 I lost complete interest in this topic I am afraid. Well, until now. I've seen your favorites list Art. And I cannot honestly say that I haven't seen some familiar faces in there. Zinniajones and Thunderfoot happen to be two of my favorite Youtubers.
"I can imagine the fighting methods of the ninja likely resembled krav maga."
theres the problem, your busy imagining what the ninja were like instead of doing your research....
spend less time fantasizing and more time reading and you may just learn a thing or two about ninja, you certainly can't learn ninjutsu, since nobody alive knows it.
it isn't a martial art, it's the skills a soldier learns to make them an intelligence operative (ninja/shinobi)
not sure in that but you are right what do you think it best train that these hawe its good and bad sides...and yeah thank you for this wounderfoul coverstion alimpije33:)
ten instructors will have ten different ways to do the same technique as well as when a student is ready to go up in rank .... hatsumi has been known to hand belts out like candy in the past ... however if you have a good instructor that you yourself trust thats all thats really important
@Caim433 yap that is true but i think the diferent ways to do a technique is better cuz you need to know to adapt to a situation,ninjutsu learns you to use your brain and it is an 8 countinous circle of many techniqes combinations are endless...
the problem is that only 3 of the ten is actually affective ... the most important difference is formality and preservation of tradition which the genbukan puts more emphasis on . neither is better its all about what you feel is important
no no its not ... the major difference is that theres no uniformity in bujinkan and the bujinkans ranking system is actually the butt of many jokes they started as one school but due to issues over how the school should be run the genbukan broke off from the bujinkan ....
stop ranting people. every ninpo/ninjutsu/bujinkan (whatever you want to call yours) practitioner knows that 9 out of 10 dojos are bullshit, especially in the US. half of the so called teachers don't even have a teaching grade, they just claim to have one. yes it's ruining the name of the whole art, ranting about it on youtube wont help. you're right if you go to a good dojo, but the 'haters' are right as well since there are so many fake ones out there.
@electronikita dojo time is for learning the techniques, your free time is for training said techniques. you can't expect to both spar and learn techniques if you spend only 4-8 hours per week at a dojo. sparring also requires a set of rules (and rules are something that don't usually go hand to hand with ninpo) since you don't want someone to accidentally break your arm. I myself spar taijutsu at the local gym with my friends who all do different martial-arts, it's very educational.
@MrNewpants Bad argument. All the combat martial arts ( boxing, MT BJJ, Sambo, etc etc) happen to have time for both technique and sparring and ninjitsu doesn't.
@electronikita it's not an argument but an observation. 'All the combat martial arts'? that's so wrong, all the sport martial-arts have sparring, if you have competition, you have sparring. how can you spar bone breaking? and please don't use the word ninjitsu (it's ninjutsu btw) about bujinkan, gives other schools a bad name. we have light sparring in genbukan ninpō bugei. bujinkan isn't the only 'ninjutsu' based school out there, there are hundreds of them, it's just the largest.
@electronikita I've practiced judo and have never broken a bone in my life (during martial arts). would be pretty hardcore to go to practice with broken bones just to get them broken again eh? that was kinda the point. yes, they indeed PRACTICE breaking bones in bujinkan everyday too, but how do you spar it? that was the question. Bujinkan is all about kicking in the nuts, poking eyes, breaking bones and overall being a dirty fighter. Who would spar that?
@MrNewpants Called tapping out mate - submission grapplers get you to the point where only a litle more pressure would indeed break your bone, or otherwise seriously harm you, and then, after you established that the pain is too much by tapping, thy release you from hold. If you practiced judo and never broken anything - you haven't practiced too long.
@electronikita a wide variation of martial arts for 12 years now and indeed, I've never broken anything. sprained, teared, bruised, dislocated but never broken. what's your point? it still isn't the same thing. tapping out is a whole world different from kicking someone in the knee hard enough for it to break. show me a dojo where they actually break bones and rip out throats and eyeballs. then I'll admit that I'm wrong and you indeed can spar ninjutsu.
@electronikita and comparing boxing and traditional japanese arts is like comparing a assault rifle with a crossbow. some people don't like sparring at all. some people don't practice martial arts so they can be 'tough' and beat up people outside the bar. I've seen a soccer player kick a bjj practitioners ass, does that make soccer a combat sport? they sure as hell don't have sparring : DD you have to remember, it's always about the fighter, not about the style they fight with.
@MrNewpants 'Course not! Are anecdotal evidence a part of ninjitsu curriculum now? Anyhow as I said, MT/ kyokushin/sanda/jujitsu are very traditional.
Oh btw, my buddy once beat the fuck out of sprot master boxer while on sustanon, do we call sustanon a martial art now : DD . You see what I did there?
@Caim433 Muay Thai has been around longer than ninjitsu. MT is more traditional than anything Japanese. Kyokushin is all about sparing, as is yodonkan=)))
muay thai would not be considered a tma however muay baron would be ...also ninjutsu is a a really bad name for what is practiced in genbukan/bujinkan its really just an umbrella term for multiple traditional arts
You're not taking into account geography. Both Thailand and Japan were places of immense conflict if you go back far enough, and it's these areas with rough backgrounds and oppression are the ones you want to look out for when gauging the effectiveness of a martial art. Ninjas were assassins because they needed to be, they didn't have enough resources to combat the samurai head on.
Of course, yes some were samurai. But even then they were often outcasts, most were formed by peasant unions and the peasant class and weren't allowed to have weapons *COUGH* resources, hence they used unorthodox weaponry. Also, I am sorry but your ignorance is hilarious. During the sengoku period ninjas were often the only method of killing the great daimayo, who were frequently surrounded by bodyguards. And by all accounts there have been assassination attempts.
" most were formed by peasant unions and the peasant class"
another lie.
"and weren't allowed to have weapons *COUGH* resources, hence they used unorthodox weaponry."
lie3
"Also, I am sorry but your ignorance is hilarious. During the sengoku period ninjas were often the only method of killing the great daimayo, who were frequently surrounded by bodyguards."
Kirigakure Saizo, Sugitani Zenjubo, Manabe Rokuro are 3 examples of ninjas who were ultimately thwarted in their individual attempts at assassination. Faith? No. It's fairly obvious that ninjas did from time to time conduct assassinations, successful attempts are fairly ambiguous and you're absolutely right about that. Also, I'd like to say that a part of being an intellectual is being humble. But from what I can tell, you're just a smart-ass.
"so you have had 1 whole week to come up with the name of ANYONE assassinated BY NINJA..."
"Kirigakure Saizo, Sugitani Zenjubo, Manabe Rokuro are 3 examples of ninjas who were ultimately thwarted in their individual attempts at assassination."
so you are admitting defeat? you haven't met the challenge.
" Faith? No. It's fairly obvious that ninjas did from time to time conduct assassinations"
obviously.
you insist, on faith, it is core to their job. bullshit.
"so you are admitting defeat? you haven't met the challenge."
Are you really this dull? The point was that they attempted. Which means that assassinations were infact conducted, who can account for the ones that were successful? No one knows, but I know that assassination was VERY much a part of the ninja's workload.
It's the nature of espionage, they did many unorthodox acts of war and assassinations just happened to be one of them.
It's not like their martial training was to combat the immediate local threat of tree branches either. Least amount of effort, maximum efficiency. This was the combat art of war. Ninjas may not have JUST used assassination so much as they scouted. But the principles of ninjitsu are based on deceptive combat tactics that are as cut-throat as they come with obvious intent to kill, severely maim, or incapacitate.
Oh no, he's onto me! I used "ninjas" instead of "ninja", surely I am a bumbling hypocrite!
And godforbid I agree with you that the "NINJA" weren't primarily assassins, it's not like I'm some kind of human you know, with changing ideas and opinions or anything. And yes... there are alot of frauds out there... most if not all. I am going to assume all. Yes, enjoy your internet comment victory, I am sure someone will take interest.
I never said that I was a student of "SO CALLED ninjitsu", I was going off of what my current knowledge was on the topic, things that I'd picked up from documentaries and a museum that I visited in Japan.
As an atheist I can admit when I am wrong, accept it, and correct myself. I am humble in this regard. You however, still want to argue and condescend simply for argument's sake. It's something personal to you, isn't it?
so you watched a few bogus tv shows, and a tourist trap calling itself a museum in japan, and think that you can overturn decades of research by people like Nawa. your a joke...
you had no historical citations, and when challenged to provide them, you get mouthy.
you display all of the behaviors of a Cognitive Dissonance suffering creationist...
I assumed that back then it was called the "History" channel for a reason. Now all I see is some shit about ancient aliens... not much credibility there I am afraid. : /
And the Iga-Ryu Ninja Museum is actually a pretty credible resource in and of itself, agreeing with most of what you said and mentioning nothing of any significant assassinations. I was consistently wrong, and I can admit that. So no, there is no cognitive dissonance.
But as for being mouthy... You initiated conversation with condescension, and from there it continued. I am mouthy? No sir. No, you are mouthy. Which is why no one likes you.
Judging from the comments left on your channel, people don't seem to like you a whole lot either. Which tells me that this conclusion wasn't far off. You could just have a normal discussion, you could act in a way that people respect you and accept your points as an intellectual rebuttal, but you're too pretentious to let this happen. A trademark of someone that lacks an intellectual motive. There's no point in arguing with you. Have a good day, for all it's worth.
"Also, I'd like to say that a part of being an intellectual is being humble."
says who??
don't you lose the rights to call yourself an intellectual by being so vacuously and definitely wrong... you would think your inability to be scholarly enough to accept facts instead of lying about them would make for your complaints to be so steeped in irony they were unable to leave your mind
" But from what I can tell, you're just a smart-ass."
@electronikita They had to be clever with what tools they had and whatever tools they may come across (Scavenged samurai weapons amongst a vast arsenal of farming equipment), and if worst came to worst they'd enlist the use of their hands to take their heavily armored foes down silently. But their most famed methods of assassination weren't limited to close quarters combat.
Alot of their methods were derived from their cunning treachery and their observational/scouting skills were legendary. They would stalk their target relentlessly, setting up traps to either ensnare/poison the target and would also from time to time utilize explosives. They would use disguises aswell, even going as far as to cross-dress to get close enough to eliminate their target. I respect them as assassins, not warriors.
Muay Thai also has an incredible history as a battlefield combat art, used to protect the land throughout many era and has a very deep cultural background as a sport and passtime. This was truly a warrior art. But despite this, neither Ninjitsu nor Muay Thai are comparable to eachother because they both accommodate their own specific tasks.
Also... you shouldn't get too much distracted with thoughts of authenticity or lies o truths.
Try to look for the truth, yes. But don't even think of the lies, don't get worried by it.
It doesn't even matter much if your master is a liar. You just train hard, and train sincerely, and you will reach truth through him. Ninpo Taijutsu doesn't exists in scrolls, it exists deep within the human condition.
ok but some of us aren't looking for martial arts to be called ninjutsu... some of us are actually more interested in ACTUAL NINJUTSU!
now the problem is, that without people that DO know the history, correcting people like YOU that don't... we will see your ilk continuing to try and overwrite the actual events and to superimpose your comic book inspired fantasies of what ninja are....
my ONLY beef with hatsumi is that he is making money by lying ( aka FRAUD). its ILLEGAL
Probably you're a history expert, that's good. But you spend so much time flaming other people on youtube, that I seriously doubt you have any idea what Ninpo is and what are the spiritual values of Budo in general. I don't intend to offend you, but I do give you an advice: Leave your pride aside, train hard, and stop thinking/talking about what other people do. They won't be affected, but you're affecting yourself.
John Lindsey in an interview with Tanemura S asks: "Did Takamatsu S always call it Togakure ryu?":
"Not at first. When he was associated with the Kuki family he planed to introduce Kukishin Ryu Ninpo in the form of scrolls and densho. But after the war he distanced himself from the Kuki family and decided not to do this. then he met Hatsumi S. and Fukumoto s. Takamatsu S.i decided to teach them Ninpo. That is when he decided to use the name Ninpo."
That's ok. I wasn't there, and you weren't either. The thing is: I don't give a damn thing about ninjas, I'm not training to be a ninja.
But I'm still gaining incredible balance: physical, mental and spiritual balance. Maybe it doesn't have real ninpo roots, maybe it does. I don't really care... It's good. Neither lie nor truth can take the taijutsu away from me.
And since I don't care or talk about ninjas and I don't defend my school blindly, then no, I'm not telling any lies.
"That's ok. I wasn't there, and you weren't either."
funny, i thought the same thing... hence why i used the words of someone who has everything to lose to be the one to quote that TAKAMATSU MADE UP HIS LINK TO NINJUTSU....
did you not know who Tanemura IS???
Hatsumi has already said multiple times he will be the next soke.... but you are professing to know more than hatsumi's prize student....
finding a COMPETENT BJK instructor is like finding a needle in the ocean....
"finding a COMPETENT BJK instructor is like finding a needle in the ocean...."
On youtube?.. yeah.
Luckily I did find an AWESOME Shihan (out there, in real life).
Keep up the good training dude. To each its own. I'm not arguing with anyone. Just pointing out that maybe you spend too much energy arguing and thinking about what other people do (specially being something you don't believe in). If you don't believe in something, just walk away from it... Silently.
what you're saying is a shame, really. It might be true, and it's regrettable.
I haven't met Hatsumi personally, so I can't talk much about him. As I say, the only thing I have is my teacher's teachings, and luckily they've been quite valuable teachings... Physically, mentally and spiritually.
So no, I didn't have any reason to believe at first, neither did I need to take any leap of faith. I just met my actual teacher and understood the value of his training...
That's why sincerely, even if all your claims are true, I don't care much about it. Because I'm getting the chance to train extremely good martial arts through my teacher's taijutsu (whether it is ninpo or not). And I've trained other martial arts (all have been good to me).
I'm just happy where I am, and no one can deny me that. My personal experience is all I got, and it's been quite positive. That's why I say "to each its own". You can't generalize your thoughts on a school for everyone.
I am a martial artist, and I am one in the dojo and outside the dojo. I walk a path of growth, of sincere training, and unmovable spirit. I will always do... I hope someday you can also live your martial arts truly, with all your being.
You can do your research and whatever, but you don't know me, and you don't know my master. You can't come and tell me that my growth as a human being and martial artist is fake, I just don't need to answer to that. It's pointless.
i don't need to know your master to know he is a liar and a fraud.
i can simply take the things he claims to be truth, prove them to be untrue, and voila, i have proven him to be a liar....
i certainly can tell you that the martial arts you are taking ARE FAKE NINJUTSU...
that does NOT mean they are fake martial arts... just that your teacher is a proven liar with a penchant for making up nonsense to assuage his own boredom at teaching stupid americans eager to buy anything.
a great example of this is the 'penis and vagina ninjutsu' as is explained and shown in the video i gave you the name of....
apparently...we are to believe that a female ninja would distract TRAINED SOLDIERS with a shell... that looks sorta like a vagina... so she can STAB them with a blunt phallic device...
its all there in that video 'Masaaki Hatsumi Unbelievable Statements"
you say i don't know your teacher, i think my studies show otherwise, get serious sucka.
Artenanor is a troll - he has admitted such on his own channel page. He spams every video with any kind of ninjutsu connection. Just flag all his messages as spam and ignore him.
yeah, good advice. It never pissed me off though, I just thought I could give some advice, but certainly.. there are rocks that are better listeners than some people. It's a pity.
People, while you're here arguing and getting pissed off, you aren't training. Go train yourselves, don't lose your time.
...And if you tend to think these kind of issue while training, you're also losing time.
There's a lot of people around here who needs to train (their minds) a little more. Arteanor, I've seen plenty of your posts. I don't know how hard you punch, but you're quite weak against your own thoughts. Be careful.
I find it very disheartening to see such pathetic arguments about martial arts in general. I used to train in Bujinkan, and am looking to start training again, but I am looking into Genbukan. There is far too much bullshit and politics around for my liking. I hate to say it but the westerners have almost ruined Ninpo, from stories you hear of gaijins demanding ranks to all bitching and backstabbing and silly nonsense. I liked Hatsumi's books but there seems far too many people training in it.
"I hate to say it but the westerners have almost ruined Ninpo,"
westerners have never seen ninpo... who are you trying to kid?
you seem to be relying on the ASSERTION that these people have any connection to shinobi.
" from stories you hear of gaijins demanding ranks to all bitching and backstabbing and silly nonsense. I liked Hatsumi's books but there seems far too many people training in it."
even the ones full of obviously made up nonsense?
@Arteanor No you're wrong. Since it's you that is getting frustrated and condescending the burden of proof is on you. If you can't provide any then you're simply coming across as some 'my arts are better than your arts' kind of guy shitposting on the internet. You seemed to have lost all credibility when you said "authenticated shinobi", since there are no shinobi no mono. You're out of your depth, but if you want to continue shitposting, you have all the time in the world to gather yourself.
@youboon "Since it's you that is getting frustrated and condescending the burden of proof is on you. "
hmmmm, that's funny, i don't recall any stipulations in the burden of proof ( seems your in need of a refresher on this, look it up, ) for you FEELING i am frustrated, OR condescending ( the IRONY, as you began with a BALD FACED ASSERTION, THAT TURNED OUT TO BE A LIE!!!)
you have a funny way of steering logical fallacies about... and now that i have shown that, AND CITATIONS
@Arteanor You don't have a video about it on your web page. You also have comments calling you a retarded troll, which speaks volumes. Me 1 - 0 You. Bye.
learn to read faggot, i said it is in my favorites... 12th from the top...
your inability to read, does NOT equate to me failing to cite my sources... get a fucking clue troll
do you really think that running away instead of providing the citations/evidence i have asked you for looks good???
does it feel like winning? then why is it that you have no references whatsoever??? ah right, because you believe any lie someone sells you... no truth allowed hmm?
"@Arteanor None of that made any sense. Might as well call yourself Glenn Beck. Same BS, different subject.
Moviebro 18 minutes ago "
"Moviebro (8 minutes ago)
Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam
Pointless semantics and a sorry crusade. Arteanor you truly are a pathetic human being. "
seems you STILL can't keep your story straight.... you sir are a pathetic example of a liar, and hence a terrible example of a shinobi,,, so congratulations at failing at your life's ambition.
When you have a system that can handle: 1) Several opponents with weapons 2) In darkness 3) when its slippery outside 4) when you are cornerd 5) you're scared... then we can talk... although some people is just after the sports, but then its a totally different matter. In the first example, lying on the ground is not an alternative...
I agree about the politics talk. Not needed, nor ego of styles of martial arts. I train in Bujinkan Ninjutsu, am definitely still a noob, but I love the art and the passion you have to have for the art to become good enough to use it. As far as this discussion you people are having: SHUT UP AND TRAIN!
Yo practico en la bujinkan. Y realmente creo que llevan el mismo entrenamiento en la gebunkan salvo por algunas cosas, lo que es de esperarse porque ambos aprendieron del mismo maestro.
Pero prefiero la Bujinkan. Se suele decir que es mas agresiva la Gebunkan, pero eso depende de los maestros no del arte.
I know blah, blah, blah ninjutsu. You blah, blah, blah, wrong. (childish insult)
Blah, blah, blah, I'm fully aware of all Japanese history. Blah, blah, blah insult life work of person I've never met. Smugness, arrogance, and scene. (overwhelming sense of pride dims ability to learn)
P.S. You've all been banished to the land of a 1,000 sword cuts
Couldn't say it better, come on guys, stop wasting the energy you could be using to train on negative rubbish. We're all on different paths, but hopefully, for the same reason.
@Arteanor Yes I am very familiar with the Tatara Magazine article. However it does not disprove anything. It certainly doesn't prove he made up the skills that were to be included. The historical use of the term ninpo is not important, but rather the actual ninjutsu skills within Togakure Ryu are.
@Arteanor Look here, I was on an Iphone, and the reply button does not appear on the mobile version, so I did it manually. I'm certainly not afraid of the likes of you.
It doesn't disprove any lineage, but even the heads of the organizations would tell you that the 900 year old thing is legend. The ryu-ha itself wasn't organized until much later...which is like many koryu. Heck some of them claim to have been started by tengu.
No one ever says koppojutsu, jujutsu, etc., are ninjutsu.
"It doesn't disprove any lineage, but even the heads of the organizations would tell you that the 900 year old thing is legend."
uh, i never claimed to be disproving anything... why would i bother to 'disprove' something with no evidence? ( like takamatsu's fictional lineage claims...)
there isn't any record of the people takamatsu claims... even when checked against the familial records... seems you forgot that tanemura did that already...
"The historical use of the term ninpo is not important"
you don't think it is relevant how the people who CREATED THE WORD used it?
"but rather the actual ninjutsu skills within Togakure Ryu are."
but as i have said, you still haven't provided ANY evidence that what hatusmi is calling togakure ryu even IS ninjutsu....
we also have the letters in the kukishinden zensho, that takamatsu wrote to the kuki, asking to mix kukishen with karate and call it ninpo... they refused.
@Arteanor Actually Takamatsu didn't invent the word Ninpo, but he was probably the first to bring it to the mainstream. For instance there was a book written in 1799 called Ninpô Suikyô by a Fuki Shinjûrô Masanaga. Togakure Ryu has every element in it that would be classified as ninjutsu. Disguises, information gathering, etc., are all in there. What you seem to be misunderstanding is what is called taijutsu is not called ninjutsu by any of these organizations.
'Actually Takamatsu didn't invent the word Ninpo,'
DUH, but why say the obvious,... i never said anything so ludicrous...
" but he was probably the first to bring it to the mainstream"
uh, thats because it is TABOO to even say the word... atleast for the japanese...
'For instance there was a book written in 1799 called Ninpô Suikyô by a Fuki Shinjûrô Masanaga. Togakure Ryu has every element in it that would be classified as ninjutsu."
"What you seem to be misunderstanding is what is called taijutsu is not called ninjutsu by any of these organizations. "
so you do not see the lack of consistency in hatsumi CLAIMING to teach ninjutsu... but not teaching any of it in lieu of teaching 'NINPO' taijutsu , which you just told me has nothing to do with ninjutsu...
and if togakure ryu ninjutsu INCLUDES taijutsu ( as he said) then you are contradicting the Soke, or your Soke's teacher... either way, an issue.
And what proof did Fujita Seiko ever provide? He had no scrolls for his Wada-ha Koka ryu ninjutsu. Kind of crazy to use him as an example of a legitimate practitioner.
why don't you ask the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai, they made him a trustee of their board.... but they are only a koryu society, and they took a pass on takamatsu's ninpo taijutsu.
we can also clearly see that he tried to market a kukishen ryu ninpo mixed with karate, but was turned down by the kukishen ryu headmaster.
he then tells the story of toda, and togakure ryu never mentioned previously is used, to claim momochi sandayu?
@Arteanor Fujita Seiko never once showed a scroll for his Koga Ryu Wada-ha. He claimed his grandfather burned the scrolls before he taught him, because he grandfather was going to let the ryu die. As far as the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai goes, he was the practitioner of some very legitimate ryu-ha and an outstanding martial artist by all accounts. However, using him to help your argument against Takamatsu is crazy because all he had as far as ninjutsu was his word.
"However, using him to help your argument against Takamatsu is crazy because all he had as far as ninjutsu was his word. "
and perhaps people were more inclined to believe fujita. maybe because he didn't mention it for the first time as a grown menkyo holder...
why wouldn't we all know of such skills before he was refused for creating a chosui-ha of kukishen ryu 'ninpo' by the leader of kukishen ryu? why is it only AFTER does he change his story to 'togakure ryu ninpo'??
John Lindsey in an interview with Tanemura S asks: "Did Takamatsu S always call it Togakure ryu?":
"Not at first. When he was associated with the Kuki family he planed to introduce Kukishin Ryu Ninpo in the form of scrolls and densho. But after the war he distanced himself from the Kuki family and decided not to do this. then he met Hatsumi S. and Fukumoto s. Takamatsu S.i decided to teach them Ninpo. That is when he decided to use the name Ninpo."
@Creationsofmyown The only ninjutsu Tanemura soke claims to be soke of is his line of Togakure Ryu. Do you actually know what is in that ryu-ha? Most of what the general population call ninjutsu is actually called Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu, and neither one of those are called ninjutsu by the XKan organizations. Shinobi Soldiers...LMAO what a joke. Same guy who said he just waltzed in and trained with both Hatsumi and Tanemura..I highly doubt that.
@Creationsofmyown He is a "grand master" of some very legitimate ryu-ha that have the paper trail to prove to anyone around they are legit. So don't say he is in no way a grand master or soke.
if he "has paper" then why did takamatsu refuse to produce it for verification during his interview for the Bugei ryuha daijiten?
and why did the story change to "i have densho, but you cant take them" when hatsumi showed up???
and how the hell do you figure the they are "legitimate" you clearly have very little understanding of WHAT ninjutsu actually IS... how bout you go read the bansenshukai, ninpiden, and the shoninki, get back to me if you find any fighting...
@Arteanor Are you so dense as to think everything taught in the X-Kans is labelled ninjutsu by them? Kukishin Ryu is never called ninjutsu, and it is as legitimate as ANY art around, Takagi Yoshin Ryu is another. Very little in the X-Kans is labelled ninjutsu by the organizations except for Togakure Ryu. I just said there that none of the fighting arts were called ninjutsu you idiot. You obviously have reading comprehension problems. Go get back on the short bus.
My plan is to eventually take this to supplement the hand to hand techniques I'm learning in Ju-jutsu. The additional techniques could be of use.
But for pure hand to hand combat, if you chose modern ninjutsu over Ju-jutsu it'd be like using a pocket knife to put in a screw instead of a screw driver.
Ninjutsu is more like a jack of all trades, while Ju-jutsu is much more specialized to hand to hand.
Supplement one with the other and you will be more complete.
Takamatsu was a menkyo kaiden and a shihan level in these schools. He did'nt just create a "mishmash" grab bag. The terms used these days are generally kobudo ninpo, or budo taijutsu not ninjutsu. I am quite aware of the historians viewpoints such as Jinichi Kawakami and the Banke Shinobi den group also. I sugest you take your crusade to E-budo or Martial arts planet I am sure your comments will be more than welcomed there
nobody refers to what takamatsu taught hatsumi as kobudo ( it isnt in the NKS or the NKK for a reason...
i care very little that you do not welcome my comments...
dont like the truth?? go argue with the experts.. im just stating the facts...
takamatsu never mentioned ninjutsu until after the ninja craze began... he was also teaching something interesting ( its not liek what standard budo looks like) and it was viable ( no1 is trying to say he couldnt fight) but its not ninjutsu.
I think you may have some half ass research and think you are "letting the cat out of the bag" so to speak, but your research is far from complete and most definately jaded for some reason of another. When speaking the martial arts of Takamatsu Sensei he most definately was a Shihan of the Kukishin ryu and Takagi Yoshin ryu. Ask the Kuki family if they think Takamatsu taught Kobudo. Alot of the Ninpo teachings come from scroll Ryusen no maki of the Amatsu Tatara.
You really need to "argue with the experts",I already told you bring your words to E-budo. Your ideas are not new many of us have heard them before you are not the first and will not be the last. There are other Japanese historians that differ with your view as well.
Well if you are on E-budo or martial arts planet, I would go for it rather than being rude onyou tube clips. I never said they were independant historians however both Kacem Zoughari of the bujinkan and Roy Ron of the Genbukan would agree there are more Takamatsu's ryu-ha than your condescending assesment from anarmchair view. And for the record I am not in the bujinkan and am not defending Hatsumi.
"research is far from complete and most definately jaded" you presume much and know little...
takagi yoshin and kukishin have NO connection with ninjutsu.. it is like saying because i can prove i was born in virginia that is proof im descended from washington...
i am not contesting his qualifications in NINJUTSU...
if you cant bother to atleast read the argument i layed out please dont waste my time...
So now you are a menkyo kaiden level in the teachings of these schools? How would you know if they do not contain sections of Ninjutsu. have you ever examined the Ryusen No Maki? I actually don't see much of an argument being layed out by you, only some smoke and mirrors. If you don't train in these Kans then what does it matter to you what they claim. Just be happy in your Koryu castle dude.
One last thing, if Takamatsu Sensei made everything up over sake one night then he should be regarded greater than Ueshiba or Kano. History is definately a politically charged subject even insupposedly "reputable" koryu schools which have tales of mythical beings and being taught in visions. Historicity relevence is extremely over rater and I have seen numerous "koryu" groups that sadly have become museum pieces and could not fight there way out of a wet paper bag.
LOL who is this "we" you keep talking about? Is your name trinity? Or is it the Shinobi Soldiers? What are you sputtering about? The ryu in the Takamatsu schools are Koryu and 2 of them verifiable. I will give you a citation if you can say you have examined Hatsumi's scrolls left to him by Takamatsu ok fair deal?
shinobi300 said "not bad but koga ryu wada ha nad jinenken are better"
Really? You can tell just from one video? Wow, you must be an amazing martial artist! You don't even need to train in an art to tell what is the best. You just know. ;)
in regards to MMA "Ninpo Bugei is not limited to any one style or school (Ryu-Ha). Instead, what has been included to build this art must be further developed. There are no limits imposed on this original Japanese art of perseverance (Shinobi)." Many who practice Ninpo are well versed in the sciences of boxing, MMA etc. Anyone who seriously trains in Ninpo knows that it is dangerous to ONLY practice Ninpo. One who believes one style will defeat all is predictable and can be easily exploited.
Gee, the only cognitive dissonance here is that I don't know whether I want to slap you or thank you.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
just calling out faith-belief being used over evidence.
doesn't matter the topic.
glad you learned something, no hard feelings?
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
Everyone has faith of some sort, it's not really something that is grounded in the confines of logic. Especially if the subject matter is not something that a lot of people really pay attention to and is just about as ambiguous in historical evidence as it is whored-out by the social media. A lot of the historical documentation on the ninja have been very elusive and expensive and haven't been translated to English until very recently. However, ignorance is never justified.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
No hard feelings.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
Maybe this was a good thing, before I knew little to nothing about the ninja. Only what I was spoon-fed by media outlets, here-say, half-truths, and an early childhood obsession. After 14 I lost complete interest in this topic I am afraid. Well, until now. I've seen your favorites list Art. And I cannot honestly say that I haven't seen some familiar faces in there. Zinniajones and Thunderfoot happen to be two of my favorite Youtubers.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
I can imagine the fighting methods of the ninja likely resembled krav maga.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
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@AtheistMonster
"I can imagine the fighting methods of the ninja likely resembled krav maga."
theres the problem, your busy imagining what the ninja were like instead of doing your research....
spend less time fantasizing and more time reading and you may just learn a thing or two about ninja, you certainly can't learn ninjutsu, since nobody alive knows it.
it isn't a martial art, it's the skills a soldier learns to make them an intelligence operative (ninja/shinobi)
Arteanor 1 month ago
not sure in that but you are right what do you think it best train that these hawe its good and bad sides...and yeah thank you for this wounderfoul coverstion alimpije33:)
alimpije33 4 months ago
what do you mean abot uniformity???
alimpije33 4 months ago
@alimpije33
ten instructors will have ten different ways to do the same technique as well as when a student is ready to go up in rank .... hatsumi has been known to hand belts out like candy in the past ... however if you have a good instructor that you yourself trust thats all thats really important
Caim433 4 months ago
@Caim433 yap that is true but i think the diferent ways to do a technique is better cuz you need to know to adapt to a situation,ninjutsu learns you to use your brain and it is an 8 countinous circle of many techniqes combinations are endless...
alimpije33 4 months ago
@alimpije33
the problem is that only 3 of the ten is actually affective ... the most important difference is formality and preservation of tradition which the genbukan puts more emphasis on . neither is better its all about what you feel is important
Caim433 4 months ago
isnt bujinkan better??? for me it is and yes can u tell me the diference between gunbukan and bujinkan pls???
alimpije33 4 months ago
@alimpije33
no no its not ... the major difference is that theres no uniformity in bujinkan and the bujinkans ranking system is actually the butt of many jokes they started as one school but due to issues over how the school should be run the genbukan broke off from the bujinkan ....
Caim433 4 months ago
stop ranting people. every ninpo/ninjutsu/bujinkan (whatever you want to call yours) practitioner knows that 9 out of 10 dojos are bullshit, especially in the US. half of the so called teachers don't even have a teaching grade, they just claim to have one. yes it's ruining the name of the whole art, ranting about it on youtube wont help. you're right if you go to a good dojo, but the 'haters' are right as well since there are so many fake ones out there.
MrNewpants 6 months ago
The only problem I ever had with ninjitsu is lack of motherfucking sparring in any shape or form
electronikita 6 months ago
@electronikita dojo time is for learning the techniques, your free time is for training said techniques. you can't expect to both spar and learn techniques if you spend only 4-8 hours per week at a dojo. sparring also requires a set of rules (and rules are something that don't usually go hand to hand with ninpo) since you don't want someone to accidentally break your arm. I myself spar taijutsu at the local gym with my friends who all do different martial-arts, it's very educational.
MrNewpants 6 months ago
@MrNewpants Bad argument. All the combat martial arts ( boxing, MT BJJ, Sambo, etc etc) happen to have time for both technique and sparring and ninjitsu doesn't.
electronikita 5 months ago
@electronikita it's not an argument but an observation. 'All the combat martial arts'? that's so wrong, all the sport martial-arts have sparring, if you have competition, you have sparring. how can you spar bone breaking? and please don't use the word ninjitsu (it's ninjutsu btw) about bujinkan, gives other schools a bad name. we have light sparring in genbukan ninpō bugei. bujinkan isn't the only 'ninjutsu' based school out there, there are hundreds of them, it's just the largest.
MrNewpants 5 months ago
@MrNewpants Bjj/Judo/Sambo etc practice bone breaking everyday =))))
electronikita 5 months ago
@electronikita I've practiced judo and have never broken a bone in my life (during martial arts). would be pretty hardcore to go to practice with broken bones just to get them broken again eh? that was kinda the point. yes, they indeed PRACTICE breaking bones in bujinkan everyday too, but how do you spar it? that was the question. Bujinkan is all about kicking in the nuts, poking eyes, breaking bones and overall being a dirty fighter. Who would spar that?
MrNewpants 5 months ago
@MrNewpants Called tapping out mate - submission grapplers get you to the point where only a litle more pressure would indeed break your bone, or otherwise seriously harm you, and then, after you established that the pain is too much by tapping, thy release you from hold. If you practiced judo and never broken anything - you haven't practiced too long.
electronikita 5 months ago
@electronikita a wide variation of martial arts for 12 years now and indeed, I've never broken anything. sprained, teared, bruised, dislocated but never broken. what's your point? it still isn't the same thing. tapping out is a whole world different from kicking someone in the knee hard enough for it to break. show me a dojo where they actually break bones and rip out throats and eyeballs. then I'll admit that I'm wrong and you indeed can spar ninjutsu.
MrNewpants 5 months ago
@MrNewpants You're missing the point grand pa - no sparing no fight skill.
electronikita 5 months ago
@electronikita and comparing boxing and traditional japanese arts is like comparing a assault rifle with a crossbow. some people don't like sparring at all. some people don't practice martial arts so they can be 'tough' and beat up people outside the bar. I've seen a soccer player kick a bjj practitioners ass, does that make soccer a combat sport? they sure as hell don't have sparring : DD you have to remember, it's always about the fighter, not about the style they fight with.
MrNewpants 5 months ago
@MrNewpants 'Course not! Are anecdotal evidence a part of ninjitsu curriculum now? Anyhow as I said, MT/ kyokushin/sanda/jujitsu are very traditional.
Oh btw, my buddy once beat the fuck out of sprot master boxer while on sustanon, do we call sustanon a martial art now : DD . You see what I did there?
electronikita 4 months ago
@electronikita
those are all sports ma not traditonal ...
Caim433 4 months ago
@Caim433 Muay Thai has been around longer than ninjitsu. MT is more traditional than anything Japanese. Kyokushin is all about sparing, as is yodonkan=)))
electronikita 4 months ago
@electronikita
muay thai would not be considered a tma however muay baron would be ...also ninjutsu is a a really bad name for what is practiced in genbukan/bujinkan its really just an umbrella term for multiple traditional arts
Caim433 4 months ago
@electronikita Yeap but bujinkan budo taijutsu is cooler
Chichopuente 4 months ago
@electronikita
You're not taking into account geography. Both Thailand and Japan were places of immense conflict if you go back far enough, and it's these areas with rough backgrounds and oppression are the ones you want to look out for when gauging the effectiveness of a martial art. Ninjas were assassins because they needed to be, they didn't have enough resources to combat the samurai head on.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
@AtheistMonster
You're not taking into account HISTORY
"Ninjas were assassins because they needed to be,"
this is untrue and i can prove it, name someone assassinated BY NINJA, you cannot do it, it's a fallacy of the ninja craze in 50s and 70s
" they didn't have enough resources to combat the samurai head on."
ninja often WERE samurai, wrong again there....
you ought to check your sources before you go correcting people...
you DO have sources right? citation please.
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor
/sigh...
Of course, yes some were samurai. But even then they were often outcasts, most were formed by peasant unions and the peasant class and weren't allowed to have weapons *COUGH* resources, hence they used unorthodox weaponry. Also, I am sorry but your ignorance is hilarious. During the sengoku period ninjas were often the only method of killing the great daimayo, who were frequently surrounded by bodyguards. And by all accounts there have been assassination attempts.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
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@AtheistMonster
"But even then they were often outcasts,"
lie.
" most were formed by peasant unions and the peasant class"
another lie.
"and weren't allowed to have weapons *COUGH* resources, hence they used unorthodox weaponry."
lie3
"Also, I am sorry but your ignorance is hilarious. During the sengoku period ninjas were often the only method of killing the great daimayo, who were frequently surrounded by bodyguards."
so show me up son, NAME ONE PERSON, i DARE YOU.
its FAKE
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor
Most of what I know came across me at the iga-ryu ninja museum and an early teenage obsession, documentaries, books, you name it.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
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@AtheistMonster
"Most of what I know came across me at the iga-ryu ninja museum"
so you are quoting a tourist trap as history, and wonder why you are the joke???
"and an early teenage obsession, documentaries, books, you name it."
and books/documentaries written by various fakes all trying to cache in on what they perceive to be a viable topic.
where is your sense of skepticism Mr Atheist man??? ah right, you left it at the door when you drank all the purple koolaid.
Arteanor 1 month ago
@AtheistMonster
so you have had 1 whole week to come up with the name of ANYONE assassinated BY NINJA...
remember when i DARED you to try and show me up, and i smashed your tiny FAITH BASED CLAIMS to pieces....
welcome to the intellectual arena kiddo, take a seat and see how the big kids do this.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
Yes, the big kids argue on the internet over ninjas.
Truly no one is your intellectual equal.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
Kirigakure Saizo, Sugitani Zenjubo, Manabe Rokuro are 3 examples of ninjas who were ultimately thwarted in their individual attempts at assassination. Faith? No. It's fairly obvious that ninjas did from time to time conduct assassinations, successful attempts are fairly ambiguous and you're absolutely right about that. Also, I'd like to say that a part of being an intellectual is being humble. But from what I can tell, you're just a smart-ass.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
"so you have had 1 whole week to come up with the name of ANYONE assassinated BY NINJA..."
"Kirigakure Saizo, Sugitani Zenjubo, Manabe Rokuro are 3 examples of ninjas who were ultimately thwarted in their individual attempts at assassination."
so you are admitting defeat? you haven't met the challenge.
" Faith? No. It's fairly obvious that ninjas did from time to time conduct assassinations"
obviously.
you insist, on faith, it is core to their job. bullshit.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
"so you are admitting defeat? you haven't met the challenge."
Are you really this dull? The point was that they attempted. Which means that assassinations were infact conducted, who can account for the ones that were successful? No one knows, but I know that assassination was VERY much a part of the ninja's workload.
It's the nature of espionage, they did many unorthodox acts of war and assassinations just happened to be one of them.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
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@AtheistMonster "you haven't met the challenge."
"Are you really this dull? The point was that they attempted. Which means that assassinations were infact conducted"
which does not in fact answer the challenge, name anyone assassinated BY SHINOBI...
you sir, are a liar, defending a fraudulent martial art....
"No one knows, but I know that assassination was VERY much a part of the ninja's workload."
i asked you HOW you knew in my first post, your guessing, POORLY.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
It's not like their martial training was to combat the immediate local threat of tree branches either. Least amount of effort, maximum efficiency. This was the combat art of war. Ninjas may not have JUST used assassination so much as they scouted. But the principles of ninjitsu are based on deceptive combat tactics that are as cut-throat as they come with obvious intent to kill, severely maim, or incapacitate.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
"It's not like their martial training "
you are ASSuming ninja had their own martial art.
this is a fictitious misconception propagated by frauds to swindle people into their "ninjutsu" dojo....
" Ninjas may not have JUST used assassination so much as they scouted. "
this has 2 BIG problems, Ninja is already plural, only an ignoramus would make this mistake.
and, you totally backtrack and revoke your quote i took for my last message.
NICE HYPOCRISY.
LOGIC'D
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
Oh no, he's onto me! I used "ninjas" instead of "ninja", surely I am a bumbling hypocrite!
And godforbid I agree with you that the "NINJA" weren't primarily assassins, it's not like I'm some kind of human you know, with changing ideas and opinions or anything. And yes... there are alot of frauds out there... most if not all. I am going to assume all. Yes, enjoy your internet comment victory, I am sure someone will take interest.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
"Oh no, he's onto me! I used "ninjas" instead of "ninja"
catching SO CALLED STUDENTS of SO CALLED NINJUTSU... and you don't even know the BASICS of what NINJA were all about....
"godforbid I agree with you that the "NINJA" weren't primarily assassins,"
your half way to the truth, you can berate an atheist to knowledge but you can't make him think can you?
i still want to see a citation for these ninja martial arts. anything 100+ years old is good.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
I never said that I was a student of "SO CALLED ninjitsu", I was going off of what my current knowledge was on the topic, things that I'd picked up from documentaries and a museum that I visited in Japan.
As an atheist I can admit when I am wrong, accept it, and correct myself. I am humble in this regard. You however, still want to argue and condescend simply for argument's sake. It's something personal to you, isn't it?
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
Why do you think anyone cares that you are an atheist? What does that have to do with ninjutsu?
widugeist 3 weeks ago
@widugeist
He brought it up, not me.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@widugeist
He brought it up.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@widugeist
He brought it up.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@widugeist
He's the one who brought it up.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
so you watched a few bogus tv shows, and a tourist trap calling itself a museum in japan, and think that you can overturn decades of research by people like Nawa. your a joke...
you had no historical citations, and when challenged to provide them, you get mouthy.
you display all of the behaviors of a Cognitive Dissonance suffering creationist...
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
I assumed that back then it was called the "History" channel for a reason. Now all I see is some shit about ancient aliens... not much credibility there I am afraid. : /
And the Iga-Ryu Ninja Museum is actually a pretty credible resource in and of itself, agreeing with most of what you said and mentioning nothing of any significant assassinations. I was consistently wrong, and I can admit that. So no, there is no cognitive dissonance.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
But as for being mouthy... You initiated conversation with condescension, and from there it continued. I am mouthy? No sir. No, you are mouthy. Which is why no one likes you.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
@AtheistMonster
yawn, seriously?
your surrender is accepted willingly and without contempt. run along now. do your homework.
Bansenshukai, Ninpiden and Shoninki are all viable sources for ninjutsu information.
go pick one up and learn something BEFORE you spout off.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@Arteanor
Judging from the comments left on your channel, people don't seem to like you a whole lot either. Which tells me that this conclusion wasn't far off. You could just have a normal discussion, you could act in a way that people respect you and accept your points as an intellectual rebuttal, but you're too pretentious to let this happen. A trademark of someone that lacks an intellectual motive. There's no point in arguing with you. Have a good day, for all it's worth.
AtheistMonster 3 weeks ago
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@AtheistMonster
"Also, I'd like to say that a part of being an intellectual is being humble."
says who??
don't you lose the rights to call yourself an intellectual by being so vacuously and definitely wrong... you would think your inability to be scholarly enough to accept facts instead of lying about them would make for your complaints to be so steeped in irony they were unable to leave your mind
" But from what I can tell, you're just a smart-ass."
says the guy proven wrong
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@electronikita They had to be clever with what tools they had and whatever tools they may come across (Scavenged samurai weapons amongst a vast arsenal of farming equipment), and if worst came to worst they'd enlist the use of their hands to take their heavily armored foes down silently. But their most famed methods of assassination weren't limited to close quarters combat.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
@electronikita
Alot of their methods were derived from their cunning treachery and their observational/scouting skills were legendary. They would stalk their target relentlessly, setting up traps to either ensnare/poison the target and would also from time to time utilize explosives. They would use disguises aswell, even going as far as to cross-dress to get close enough to eliminate their target. I respect them as assassins, not warriors.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
Muay Thai also has an incredible history as a battlefield combat art, used to protect the land throughout many era and has a very deep cultural background as a sport and passtime. This was truly a warrior art. But despite this, neither Ninjitsu nor Muay Thai are comparable to eachother because they both accommodate their own specific tasks.
AtheistMonster 1 month ago
@electronikita
first
muay THAI is a sport art... it is a modern creation of the 18ish hundreds
muah BORAN is a battlefield art, the distinction when it became a sport is important.
ninjutsu is NOT a martial art. and it definitively dates back to 1560 ATLEAST
to even SAY something is MORE traditional is preposterous, but to say it about this video is insulting, it IS jiujitsu, but it is NOT traditional.
Arteanor 1 month ago
0:10 most legit front flip wrist lock escape ever.
ryan31394 9 months ago
Also... you shouldn't get too much distracted with thoughts of authenticity or lies o truths.
Try to look for the truth, yes. But don't even think of the lies, don't get worried by it.
It doesn't even matter much if your master is a liar. You just train hard, and train sincerely, and you will reach truth through him. Ninpo Taijutsu doesn't exists in scrolls, it exists deep within the human condition.
zsoujiro 9 months ago
@zsoujiro
ok but some of us aren't looking for martial arts to be called ninjutsu... some of us are actually more interested in ACTUAL NINJUTSU!
now the problem is, that without people that DO know the history, correcting people like YOU that don't... we will see your ilk continuing to try and overwrite the actual events and to superimpose your comic book inspired fantasies of what ninja are....
my ONLY beef with hatsumi is that he is making money by lying ( aka FRAUD). its ILLEGAL
Arteanor 9 months ago
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zsoujiro 9 months ago
@Arteanor
Probably you're a history expert, that's good. But you spend so much time flaming other people on youtube, that I seriously doubt you have any idea what Ninpo is and what are the spiritual values of Budo in general. I don't intend to offend you, but I do give you an advice: Leave your pride aside, train hard, and stop thinking/talking about what other people do. They won't be affected, but you're affecting yourself.
zsoujiro 9 months ago
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@zsoujiro funny story.
the art in this video isn't ninjutsu.
way back in the 50's takamatsu was frustrated no young people wanted to learn kukishin ryu that he had learned, kodokan judo was VERY popular.
so he sought to increase the curriculum by adding kata from 'karate todejutsu' (since shortend to karate).
now he had a kukishin karate hybrid, and he started refering to it as ninpo.
kukishin ryu was not pleased. so he made up Toda Shinryuken teaching him togakure ryu as a kid...
Arteanor 9 months ago
@zsoujiro
woops it looks like my second message didn't get sent...
you may like this one... its a quote from shoto tanemura, that proves that the story of these skills is far more complicated than you realize...
"They won't be affected, but you're affecting yourself."
see, i think this too, you will tell the lies, i will tell the truth, the truth will always be unaffected by lies...
and changing the name of taijutsu's school is pretty much admitting your making it up....
Arteanor 9 months ago
@zsoujiro "Tatara magazine page 6.
John Lindsey in an interview with Tanemura S asks: "Did Takamatsu S always call it Togakure ryu?":
"Not at first. When he was associated with the Kuki family he planed to introduce Kukishin Ryu Ninpo in the form of scrolls and densho. But after the war he distanced himself from the Kuki family and decided not to do this. then he met Hatsumi S. and Fukumoto s. Takamatsu S.i decided to teach them Ninpo. That is when he decided to use the name Ninpo."
Arteanor 9 months ago
@Arteanor
That's ok. I wasn't there, and you weren't either. The thing is: I don't give a damn thing about ninjas, I'm not training to be a ninja.
But I'm still gaining incredible balance: physical, mental and spiritual balance. Maybe it doesn't have real ninpo roots, maybe it does. I don't really care... It's good. Neither lie nor truth can take the taijutsu away from me.
And since I don't care or talk about ninjas and I don't defend my school blindly, then no, I'm not telling any lies.
zsoujiro 9 months ago
@zsoujiro
"That's ok. I wasn't there, and you weren't either."
funny, i thought the same thing... hence why i used the words of someone who has everything to lose to be the one to quote that TAKAMATSU MADE UP HIS LINK TO NINJUTSU....
did you not know who Tanemura IS???
Hatsumi has already said multiple times he will be the next soke.... but you are professing to know more than hatsumi's prize student....
finding a COMPETENT BJK instructor is like finding a needle in the ocean....
Arteanor 8 months ago
@Arteanor
"finding a COMPETENT BJK instructor is like finding a needle in the ocean...."
On youtube?.. yeah.
Luckily I did find an AWESOME Shihan (out there, in real life).
Keep up the good training dude. To each its own. I'm not arguing with anyone. Just pointing out that maybe you spend too much energy arguing and thinking about what other people do (specially being something you don't believe in). If you don't believe in something, just walk away from it... Silently.
zsoujiro 8 months ago
@zsoujiro
funny. i didnt mention it being 'On youtube'
i simply said what i said, and for DAMN GOOD REASON... there is absolutely NO quality control in the way that hatsumi hands out teaching grades....
most of the shihan i have spoken with don't even know the names of techniques, not to mention their incomplete training in those techniques....
' (specially being something you don't believe in)'
so did you have some sort of REASON to believe ? or are you just strumming your faith harp...
Creationsofmyown 8 months ago
@Creationsofmyown
woopsy, looks like somebody else forgot to log out of their youtube on my pc....
Creationsofmyown 8 months ago
@Creationsofmyown
what you're saying is a shame, really. It might be true, and it's regrettable.
I haven't met Hatsumi personally, so I can't talk much about him. As I say, the only thing I have is my teacher's teachings, and luckily they've been quite valuable teachings... Physically, mentally and spiritually.
So no, I didn't have any reason to believe at first, neither did I need to take any leap of faith. I just met my actual teacher and understood the value of his training...
zsoujiro 8 months ago
That's why sincerely, even if all your claims are true, I don't care much about it. Because I'm getting the chance to train extremely good martial arts through my teacher's taijutsu (whether it is ninpo or not). And I've trained other martial arts (all have been good to me).
I'm just happy where I am, and no one can deny me that. My personal experience is all I got, and it's been quite positive. That's why I say "to each its own". You can't generalize your thoughts on a school for everyone.
zsoujiro 8 months ago
@zsoujiro
sounds an awful lot like a copout,
doesn't it bother you that this teacher you seem to respect so much, is either A) actively lying or B) going along with Hatsumi lying ???????
how can you even pretend you are growing spiritually when your only input is from a proven liar???
i suggest you do some more research into hatsumi, particularly a great vid here on youtube "Masaaki Hatsumi Unbelievable statements."
when half of your school is a joke, how can you pretend it is serious?
Creationsofmyown 8 months ago
@Creationsofmyown
I am a martial artist, and I am one in the dojo and outside the dojo. I walk a path of growth, of sincere training, and unmovable spirit. I will always do... I hope someday you can also live your martial arts truly, with all your being.
You can do your research and whatever, but you don't know me, and you don't know my master. You can't come and tell me that my growth as a human being and martial artist is fake, I just don't need to answer to that. It's pointless.
Good bye.
zsoujiro 8 months ago
@zsoujiro
i don't need to know your master to know he is a liar and a fraud.
i can simply take the things he claims to be truth, prove them to be untrue, and voila, i have proven him to be a liar....
i certainly can tell you that the martial arts you are taking ARE FAKE NINJUTSU...
that does NOT mean they are fake martial arts... just that your teacher is a proven liar with a penchant for making up nonsense to assuage his own boredom at teaching stupid americans eager to buy anything.
Creationsofmyown 8 months ago
@zsoujiro
a great example of this is the 'penis and vagina ninjutsu' as is explained and shown in the video i gave you the name of....
apparently...we are to believe that a female ninja would distract TRAINED SOLDIERS with a shell... that looks sorta like a vagina... so she can STAB them with a blunt phallic device...
its all there in that video 'Masaaki Hatsumi Unbelievable Statements"
you say i don't know your teacher, i think my studies show otherwise, get serious sucka.
Creationsofmyown 8 months ago
@zsoujiro
Artenanor is a troll - he has admitted such on his own channel page. He spams every video with any kind of ninjutsu connection. Just flag all his messages as spam and ignore him.
mdiem 7 months ago
@mdiem
yeah, good advice. It never pissed me off though, I just thought I could give some advice, but certainly.. there are rocks that are better listeners than some people. It's a pity.
zsoujiro 7 months ago
People, while you're here arguing and getting pissed off, you aren't training. Go train yourselves, don't lose your time.
...And if you tend to think these kind of issue while training, you're also losing time.
There's a lot of people around here who needs to train (their minds) a little more. Arteanor, I've seen plenty of your posts. I don't know how hard you punch, but you're quite weak against your own thoughts. Be careful.
Good day.
zsoujiro 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"I agree about the politics talk."
meaning: you know you can't win, so you avoid the topic?
" Not needed, nor ego of styles of martial arts." agreed, i think takamatsu-den is a great skillset.
"I train in Bujinkan Ninjutsu,"
i have told you this before...
you do not train in ninjutsu. you are promoting a lie that even hatsumi is distancing himself from...
takamatsu-den will be much better off when you ninja nuts are gone....
Arteanor 10 months ago
I find it very disheartening to see such pathetic arguments about martial arts in general. I used to train in Bujinkan, and am looking to start training again, but I am looking into Genbukan. There is far too much bullshit and politics around for my liking. I hate to say it but the westerners have almost ruined Ninpo, from stories you hear of gaijins demanding ranks to all bitching and backstabbing and silly nonsense. I liked Hatsumi's books but there seems far too many people training in it.
youboon 10 months ago
@youboon
"I hate to say it but the westerners have almost ruined Ninpo,"
westerners have never seen ninpo... who are you trying to kid?
you seem to be relying on the ASSERTION that these people have any connection to shinobi.
" from stories you hear of gaijins demanding ranks to all bitching and backstabbing and silly nonsense. I liked Hatsumi's books but there seems far too many people training in it."
even the ones full of obviously made up nonsense?
Arteanor 10 months ago
@Arteanor What made up nonsense? I disagree with your comment.
youboon 10 months ago
@youboon
you are welcome to hold opinions that do not mesh with reality... but if you seek to voice them as fact you had better be able to defend them....
i suggest you look up the video in my favorites... "Masaaki Hatsumi - Unbelievable Statements"
or any of the numerous books where he claims ninjutsu includes 'ninpo taijutsu' that nobody including authenticated shinobi has ever heard of...
trust me when i tell you this, you are out of your depth here...
Arteanor 10 months ago
@Arteanor No you're wrong. Since it's you that is getting frustrated and condescending the burden of proof is on you. If you can't provide any then you're simply coming across as some 'my arts are better than your arts' kind of guy shitposting on the internet. You seemed to have lost all credibility when you said "authenticated shinobi", since there are no shinobi no mono. You're out of your depth, but if you want to continue shitposting, you have all the time in the world to gather yourself.
youboon 10 months ago
@youboon "Since it's you that is getting frustrated and condescending the burden of proof is on you. "
hmmmm, that's funny, i don't recall any stipulations in the burden of proof ( seems your in need of a refresher on this, look it up, ) for you FEELING i am frustrated, OR condescending ( the IRONY, as you began with a BALD FACED ASSERTION, THAT TURNED OUT TO BE A LIE!!!)
you have a funny way of steering logical fallacies about... and now that i have shown that, AND CITATIONS
cya
Arteanor 10 months ago
@Arteanor You don't have a video about it on your web page. You also have comments calling you a retarded troll, which speaks volumes. Me 1 - 0 You. Bye.
youboon 10 months ago
@youboon
learn to read faggot, i said it is in my favorites... 12th from the top...
your inability to read, does NOT equate to me failing to cite my sources... get a fucking clue troll
do you really think that running away instead of providing the citations/evidence i have asked you for looks good???
does it feel like winning? then why is it that you have no references whatsoever??? ah right, because you believe any lie someone sells you... no truth allowed hmm?
Arteanor 10 months ago
@Arteanor LOL why u so mad tho
youboon 10 months ago
@muker123
nope i just showed that he says i dont make sense here on the video... but he changed his mind that he understood it perfectly on my profile...
just showing that the kid can't handle the argument so he made an excuse to try and save face while he ran away.....
Arteanor 10 months ago
"@Arteanor None of that made any sense. Might as well call yourself Glenn Beck. Same BS, different subject.
Moviebro 18 minutes ago "
"Moviebro (8 minutes ago)
Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam
Pointless semantics and a sorry crusade. Arteanor you truly are a pathetic human being. "
seems you STILL can't keep your story straight.... you sir are a pathetic example of a liar, and hence a terrible example of a shinobi,,, so congratulations at failing at your life's ambition.
Arteanor 11 months ago
When you have a system that can handle: 1) Several opponents with weapons 2) In darkness 3) when its slippery outside 4) when you are cornerd 5) you're scared... then we can talk... although some people is just after the sports, but then its a totally different matter. In the first example, lying on the ground is not an alternative...
broadbandtogod 11 months ago
I agree about the politics talk. Not needed, nor ego of styles of martial arts. I train in Bujinkan Ninjutsu, am definitely still a noob, but I love the art and the passion you have to have for the art to become good enough to use it. As far as this discussion you people are having: SHUT UP AND TRAIN!
Moviebro 11 months ago
@Moviebro
"I agree about the politics talk."
meaning: you know you can't win, so you avoid the topic?
" Not needed, nor ego of styles of martial arts." agreed, i think takamatsu-den is a great skillset.
"I train in Bujinkan Ninjutsu,"
i have told you this before...
you do not train in ninjutsu. you are promoting a lie that even hatsumi is distancing himself from...
takamatsu-den will be much better off when you ninja nuts are gone....
Arteanor 11 months ago
@Arteanor None of that made any sense. Might as well call yourself Glenn Beck. Same BS, different subject.
Moviebro 11 months ago
Krav.
Albigatnz 1 year ago
genbukan is fail.
fardisghomeshi 1 year ago
Yo practico en la bujinkan. Y realmente creo que llevan el mismo entrenamiento en la gebunkan salvo por algunas cosas, lo que es de esperarse porque ambos aprendieron del mismo maestro.
Pero prefiero la Bujinkan. Se suele decir que es mas agresiva la Gebunkan, pero eso depende de los maestros no del arte.
alejandrothegod 1 year ago
0:51 "break the face" lol
jjamihme 1 year ago
I know blah, blah, blah ninjutsu. You blah, blah, blah, wrong. (childish insult)
Blah, blah, blah, I'm fully aware of all Japanese history. Blah, blah, blah insult life work of person I've never met. Smugness, arrogance, and scene. (overwhelming sense of pride dims ability to learn)
P.S. You've all been banished to the land of a 1,000 sword cuts
mmmhmuffin 1 year ago 2
@mmmhmuffin
Couldn't say it better, come on guys, stop wasting the energy you could be using to train on negative rubbish. We're all on different paths, but hopefully, for the same reason.
Keep smiling ;)
ajmotorservices 1 year ago
@ajmotorservices man Hatsumi's been saying that for years! And they STILL never learn. I think Ninjutsu isn't handed down it's created
Ryutobi 1 year ago
I know nothing of Ninjutsu, but there seems to be a hell of a lot of Politics...
BuddhaZenMind 1 year ago
@BuddhaZenMind That is why I just train. Screw politicians!
23mavcat 1 year ago
@23mavcat I agree! Ninpo is practice not politics.
Ryutobi 1 year ago
@Arteanor Yes I am very familiar with the Tatara Magazine article. However it does not disprove anything. It certainly doesn't prove he made up the skills that were to be included. The historical use of the term ninpo is not important, but rather the actual ninjutsu skills within Togakure Ryu are.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1
"Yes I am very familiar with the Tatara Magazine article"
but not the reply button? coward.
"However it does not disprove anything"
disproves the claims of 1100 year old ninja lineage.
"It certainly doesn't prove he made up the skills that were to be included"
nobody said he did, they ARE koppojutsu, jujutsu etc, they AREN'T ninjutsu.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor Look here, I was on an Iphone, and the reply button does not appear on the mobile version, so I did it manually. I'm certainly not afraid of the likes of you.
It doesn't disprove any lineage, but even the heads of the organizations would tell you that the 900 year old thing is legend. The ryu-ha itself wasn't organized until much later...which is like many koryu. Heck some of them claim to have been started by tengu.
No one ever says koppojutsu, jujutsu, etc., are ninjutsu.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1
"It doesn't disprove any lineage, but even the heads of the organizations would tell you that the 900 year old thing is legend."
uh, i never claimed to be disproving anything... why would i bother to 'disprove' something with no evidence? ( like takamatsu's fictional lineage claims...)
there isn't any record of the people takamatsu claims... even when checked against the familial records... seems you forgot that tanemura did that already...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@brownsound1
"The historical use of the term ninpo is not important"
you don't think it is relevant how the people who CREATED THE WORD used it?
"but rather the actual ninjutsu skills within Togakure Ryu are."
but as i have said, you still haven't provided ANY evidence that what hatusmi is calling togakure ryu even IS ninjutsu....
we also have the letters in the kukishinden zensho, that takamatsu wrote to the kuki, asking to mix kukishen with karate and call it ninpo... they refused.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor Actually Takamatsu didn't invent the word Ninpo, but he was probably the first to bring it to the mainstream. For instance there was a book written in 1799 called Ninpô Suikyô by a Fuki Shinjûrô Masanaga. Togakure Ryu has every element in it that would be classified as ninjutsu. Disguises, information gathering, etc., are all in there. What you seem to be misunderstanding is what is called taijutsu is not called ninjutsu by any of these organizations.
brownsound1 1 year ago
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@brownsound1
'Actually Takamatsu didn't invent the word Ninpo,'
DUH, but why say the obvious,... i never said anything so ludicrous...
" but he was probably the first to bring it to the mainstream"
uh, thats because it is TABOO to even say the word... atleast for the japanese...
'For instance there was a book written in 1799 called Ninpô Suikyô by a Fuki Shinjûrô Masanaga. Togakure Ryu has every element in it that would be classified as ninjutsu."
uh, then why not share a quote from it???
Arteanor 1 year ago
@brownsound1
"What you seem to be misunderstanding is what is called taijutsu is not called ninjutsu by any of these organizations. "
so you do not see the lack of consistency in hatsumi CLAIMING to teach ninjutsu... but not teaching any of it in lieu of teaching 'NINPO' taijutsu , which you just told me has nothing to do with ninjutsu...
and if togakure ryu ninjutsu INCLUDES taijutsu ( as he said) then you are contradicting the Soke, or your Soke's teacher... either way, an issue.
Arteanor 1 year ago
And what proof did Fujita Seiko ever provide? He had no scrolls for his Wada-ha Koka ryu ninjutsu. Kind of crazy to use him as an example of a legitimate practitioner.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1
why don't you ask the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai, they made him a trustee of their board.... but they are only a koryu society, and they took a pass on takamatsu's ninpo taijutsu.
we can also clearly see that he tried to market a kukishen ryu ninpo mixed with karate, but was turned down by the kukishen ryu headmaster.
he then tells the story of toda, and togakure ryu never mentioned previously is used, to claim momochi sandayu?
and who said he didn't have scrolls?
Arteanor 1 year ago
Comment removed
LedZeppieFreak 1 year ago
@Arteanor Fujita Seiko never once showed a scroll for his Koga Ryu Wada-ha. He claimed his grandfather burned the scrolls before he taught him, because he grandfather was going to let the ryu die. As far as the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai goes, he was the practitioner of some very legitimate ryu-ha and an outstanding martial artist by all accounts. However, using him to help your argument against Takamatsu is crazy because all he had as far as ninjutsu was his word.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1
"However, using him to help your argument against Takamatsu is crazy because all he had as far as ninjutsu was his word. "
and perhaps people were more inclined to believe fujita. maybe because he didn't mention it for the first time as a grown menkyo holder...
why wouldn't we all know of such skills before he was refused for creating a chosui-ha of kukishen ryu 'ninpo' by the leader of kukishen ryu? why is it only AFTER does he change his story to 'togakure ryu ninpo'??
Arteanor 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brownsound1
Tatara magazine page 6.
John Lindsey in an interview with Tanemura S asks: "Did Takamatsu S always call it Togakure ryu?":
"Not at first. When he was associated with the Kuki family he planed to introduce Kukishin Ryu Ninpo in the form of scrolls and densho. But after the war he distanced himself from the Kuki family and decided not to do this. then he met Hatsumi S. and Fukumoto s. Takamatsu S.i decided to teach them Ninpo. That is when he decided to use the name Ninpo."
Arteanor 1 year ago
Great vid. I love :53 ...break the face....hehe
JebusOGoldberg 1 year ago
i hope to meet Grandmaster Shoto one day :)
wasabi107 1 year ago
It sickens me that you can open virtually any phone book in any city and find a dozen "grand masters" .
Mr. Tanemura is the real deal, and one of few people in the world that legitimately holds the title Grand Master.
1EmergingCenter 1 year ago
@1EmergingCenter
uh,... tanemura is in no way a "grand master"
he isnt even soke....
there is also the ENTIRE LACK of EVIDENCE for ninjutsu in any way being a martial (fighting, not just relating to war) art.
seems you need to do a little more research on takamatsu-den arts in general...
i suggest Shinobi soldiers series here on YT
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown The only ninjutsu Tanemura soke claims to be soke of is his line of Togakure Ryu. Do you actually know what is in that ryu-ha? Most of what the general population call ninjutsu is actually called Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu, and neither one of those are called ninjutsu by the XKan organizations. Shinobi Soldiers...LMAO what a joke. Same guy who said he just waltzed in and trained with both Hatsumi and Tanemura..I highly doubt that.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown He is a "grand master" of some very legitimate ryu-ha that have the paper trail to prove to anyone around they are legit. So don't say he is in no way a grand master or soke.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1
if he "has paper" then why did takamatsu refuse to produce it for verification during his interview for the Bugei ryuha daijiten?
and why did the story change to "i have densho, but you cant take them" when hatsumi showed up???
and how the hell do you figure the they are "legitimate" you clearly have very little understanding of WHAT ninjutsu actually IS... how bout you go read the bansenshukai, ninpiden, and the shoninki, get back to me if you find any fighting...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor Are you so dense as to think everything taught in the X-Kans is labelled ninjutsu by them? Kukishin Ryu is never called ninjutsu, and it is as legitimate as ANY art around, Takagi Yoshin Ryu is another. Very little in the X-Kans is labelled ninjutsu by the organizations except for Togakure Ryu. I just said there that none of the fighting arts were called ninjutsu you idiot. You obviously have reading comprehension problems. Go get back on the short bus.
brownsound1 1 year ago
My plan is to eventually take this to supplement the hand to hand techniques I'm learning in Ju-jutsu. The additional techniques could be of use.
But for pure hand to hand combat, if you chose modern ninjutsu over Ju-jutsu it'd be like using a pocket knife to put in a screw instead of a screw driver.
Ninjutsu is more like a jack of all trades, while Ju-jutsu is much more specialized to hand to hand.
Supplement one with the other and you will be more complete.
Cartesiantheater 2 years ago
jujutsu roots trace back to ninjutsu
celo456937 2 years ago
LOL Tanemura Sensei is a Jujutsu Grandmaster as well...
BryceDawkins 2 years ago
except... that this "modern ninjutsu" doesnt exist...
anymore than shooting a gun from a motorcycle is modern mongolian horse back archery.,....
you cant just tag modern onto a historical term and then totally change what it refers to either...
for instance, that you use ninjutsu to describe a martial art... something that is vehemently agreed upon by every expert on the globe to be FALSE.
you would be better served doing what takamatsu did... learn a mishmash of different arts.
Arteanor 2 years ago
Takamatsu was a menkyo kaiden and a shihan level in these schools. He did'nt just create a "mishmash" grab bag. The terms used these days are generally kobudo ninpo, or budo taijutsu not ninjutsu. I am quite aware of the historians viewpoints such as Jinichi Kawakami and the Banke Shinobi den group also. I sugest you take your crusade to E-budo or Martial arts planet I am sure your comments will be more than welcomed there
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
nobody refers to what takamatsu taught hatsumi as kobudo ( it isnt in the NKS or the NKK for a reason...
i care very little that you do not welcome my comments...
dont like the truth?? go argue with the experts.. im just stating the facts...
takamatsu never mentioned ninjutsu until after the ninja craze began... he was also teaching something interesting ( its not liek what standard budo looks like) and it was viable ( no1 is trying to say he couldnt fight) but its not ninjutsu.
Arteanor 2 years ago
I think you may have some half ass research and think you are "letting the cat out of the bag" so to speak, but your research is far from complete and most definately jaded for some reason of another. When speaking the martial arts of Takamatsu Sensei he most definately was a Shihan of the Kukishin ryu and Takagi Yoshin ryu. Ask the Kuki family if they think Takamatsu taught Kobudo. Alot of the Ninpo teachings come from scroll Ryusen no maki of the Amatsu Tatara.
.
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
You really need to "argue with the experts",I already told you bring your words to E-budo. Your ideas are not new many of us have heard them before you are not the first and will not be the last. There are other Japanese historians that differ with your view as well.
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
uh i am on ebudo... and have read extensively the rip downs on takamatsu-den.... who are you trying to kid?
if you can name independent historians who agree with you, NAME THEM...
the only people who back hatsumi are the people in his organization...
he even kicks people out if they ask too many questions....
Arteanor 2 years ago
Well if you are on E-budo or martial arts planet, I would go for it rather than being rude onyou tube clips. I never said they were independant historians however both Kacem Zoughari of the bujinkan and Roy Ron of the Genbukan would agree there are more Takamatsu's ryu-ha than your condescending assesment from anarmchair view. And for the record I am not in the bujinkan and am not defending Hatsumi.
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
"research is far from complete and most definately jaded" you presume much and know little...
takagi yoshin and kukishin have NO connection with ninjutsu.. it is like saying because i can prove i was born in virginia that is proof im descended from washington...
i am not contesting his qualifications in NINJUTSU...
if you cant bother to atleast read the argument i layed out please dont waste my time...
Arteanor 2 years ago
So now you are a menkyo kaiden level in the teachings of these schools? How would you know if they do not contain sections of Ninjutsu. have you ever examined the Ryusen No Maki? I actually don't see much of an argument being layed out by you, only some smoke and mirrors. If you don't train in these Kans then what does it matter to you what they claim. Just be happy in your Koryu castle dude.
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
One last thing, if Takamatsu Sensei made everything up over sake one night then he should be regarded greater than Ueshiba or Kano. History is definately a politically charged subject even insupposedly "reputable" koryu schools which have tales of mythical beings and being taught in visions. Historicity relevence is extremely over rater and I have seen numerous "koryu" groups that sadly have become museum pieces and could not fight there way out of a wet paper bag.
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
we are not talking about its origins being legitimate... just the lineage...
frankly if you cant understand neurology enough to know that people do odd things... i cant explain it to you,...
i find your dismissal of koryu rather entertaining...
i also find it amusing that you cant name even on koryu group that acted that way... ( queu the google bot)
its not a hard thing that i asked... just cite 1 character in the historical record showing martial tech in ninjutsu...
come on.
Arteanor 2 years ago
LOL who is this "we" you keep talking about? Is your name trinity? Or is it the Shinobi Soldiers? What are you sputtering about? The ryu in the Takamatsu schools are Koryu and 2 of them verifiable. I will give you a citation if you can say you have examined Hatsumi's scrolls left to him by Takamatsu ok fair deal?
FUDOSHINN 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
shinobi300 said "not bad but koga ryu wada ha nad jinenken are better"
Really? You can tell just from one video? Wow, you must be an amazing martial artist! You don't even need to train in an art to tell what is the best. You just know. ;)
onmitsu9 2 years ago
the most funny thing onmitsu is that koka ryu (especially wada ha) are extinct...
just laugh cuz he is claiming a dead ryu....
Arteanor 2 years ago
in regards to MMA "Ninpo Bugei is not limited to any one style or school (Ryu-Ha). Instead, what has been included to build this art must be further developed. There are no limits imposed on this original Japanese art of perseverance (Shinobi)." Many who practice Ninpo are well versed in the sciences of boxing, MMA etc. Anyone who seriously trains in Ninpo knows that it is dangerous to ONLY practice Ninpo. One who believes one style will defeat all is predictable and can be easily exploited.
LanceCummings 2 years ago
Every Time I see Tanemura Soke I am so Amazed at his ability. He is a great teacher and an even greater person.
Ongyokage6389 2 years ago 4
The only really efficient thing I saw here was the biting out a piece of opponents hand :) that's something gracies would not like :D
nerimassamiren 2 years ago
Wow!! They did a good job describing what ninjas can do. I'm looking forward to going back to learn ninjutsu.
ragastelum4 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
why wont this video even fucking start!!!???
fairplayguy 2 years ago
very good I miss forest
londoxon 2 years ago
Please watch next video.
watch?v=cR7G-xJxo2g
A man(ChosonNinja) stealing a knowledge of Genbukan exists.
__
HouzanSuzuki 2 years ago 2
boooo
232323C 2 years ago
Sensei, I wouldn't have guessed your interested in the Genbukan. I'm thinking about Joining, because there are no bujinkan schools around.
Haku92292 2 years ago
1-
Haku
Of course, it is not bad that you are interested in Ninjutsu.
However, I noticed a big problem of one in Europe and America.
People seem to be going to easily learn martial arts.
Because various martial arts are unified, Ninjutsu may be convenience.
However, if I say the truth,
You had better study Kemjutsu and Taijutu in each special Dojo.
From the first, Ninjutsu mixing such a different martial arts.
cont
HouzanSuzuki 2 years ago 2
2-
At first please reach "only one martial arts"
Ninjutsu is a kind of supermarket.
However, it is to look for a specialty store that is really necessary for you.
Of course, Genbukan Ninutsu is nice, too.
However, ChosoNinja is a the lowest swindler in You-Tube.
HouzanSuzuki 2 years ago 3