numenor was 20x more amazing and epic than these pictures in lotr im arathour real name tar golothorn last prince of numenor son of tar palantir if you think numenoreans are now corrupt there are the rangers and a few that escaped that day
When i read the comments i get the impression evryone thinks the Numenoreans gto evil, while they were just being less elvish and more human. And in Tolkiens world (a bit in contrast to ours) there IS a major injustice - of the Humans there is "required a blind trust" while the elves go straight to paradise :D -in my opinion the envy isnt so unnatural -and it certainly isnt straight away evil.
Númenor is nothing other than Tolkien's interpretation of Atlantis. A profound teacher who tells you the real history of the world up until the present day.
tale of numenor is actually is telling how humans are in wreal life , how they become cruel and arrogant only when they have power and how easly they are seduced to evil and tirany . In the end theyr power and arrogance destroyes them .
@majormcjansen Yes indeed those two tales are quite similar. And it cannot be denied that the tale of Atlantis served as an inspiration for the tale of the Akallabeth (the Downfall of Númenor) much as the Biblical account of how Satan came to be inspired the tale of Morgoth the Dark Lord (you can read Ezekiel 28:12-17 and see it yourself) Also it's noteworthy that a later name for Nùmenor among the Dùnadan is Atalantë, meaning "The Downfallen" in Quenya, the language of the High Elves.
Numenor has been distroyed by its own people, but not without sauron's help. they feared from death and sauron used it to wipe them out. sauron indeed is celver, and togethar with his power nothing could stop him,but he was foolish eonought to create the one ring and risk his life if the ring will be distroyed, heh brought on himself death, not without frodo's help.
a fear of death is main reason for numenors evil a fear of the unknown and sauron took advantage of that fear and doomed numenor to human sacrifice and finnaly its destuction
@cianandseans and thanks the fear that was placed into humanity ever since its first awakening in the east and thats why in the end it will be by the hand of turin himself that morgoth will fall to
beautiful ....absolutly beautiful ....whats the music? and it makes you sad to think that not much is known about numenor and so on....JRR Tolkien ROCKES :) GREATEST BOOK WRITER EVER !! YOU'LL BE FOREVER WITH US FANS OF YOUR ASWESOME BOOKS!! it's really sad that u had to die and leave us wanting more from your awesome talents i can't get enough
this is amazing but i'm sad because not much is known about numenor and so on and it's home to the mouth of sauron ..anyway ..beautiful :) JRR Tolkien ROCKES :) GREATEST BOOK WRITER EVER !! YOU'LL BE FOREVER WITH US FANS OF YOUR ASWESOME BOOKS!!
there is some similarities in the story of atlantis described by plato. tolkien must have some inspiration from ancient greek mythology, egypt's pyramids. or perhaps ancient alien theories. including the mayas
@Jaster: which book did u get ur information about the ring from? id really like to know because from the silmarillion and the lotr i felt the second age came a bit short. But perhaps theres hope that i just dont know about a book ? *looking forward*
@rocknaho Sauron made the One Ring, and this provoked the war of the Elves and Sauron, which was long before Ar Pharazon came to the throne. Sauron had the Ring when he was in Numenor. Look at the timing. It's in the Akallabeth, and again it's stated in the section Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, the final seciton of the Silmarillion volume. My thoughts on what the ring does is just an interpretation based on it's stated effects.
Part of the reason why Ar Pharazon didn't destroy Sauron when he had the chance was that he *couldn't*. And I don't mean he could not have destroyed his physical form; it was within his power to do that, at least. Sauron was in possession of the One Ring by the time he came into the court of the King. That is the reason. The One Ring's power is to create a sense of legitimacy in those it affects; to the weak, this is authority, and in the strong the words of the bearer sound sweet and true.
I think that Sauron was quite different from Morgoth because Morgoth was just trying to destroy (or at least spoil and cripple) what others created (and so he wasted his powers) but Sauron wanted to rule the world and so he was trying to enslave the free people of Middle-Earth. You can see that in the Third Age in creation of the Rings of Power. I also suppose that he recieved some portion of Melkor´s original power but I´m not sure about this.
How much do the events from the Silmarillion factor into the Lord of the Rings book and film adaptation? I understand that Aragorn was a decendant of the Numenorians, but was that fact ever elaborated upon in the LOTR novel, or was it later pointed out in Silmarillion?
and now as we sit here and hear the tale of the splendour and majesty of numenor that once was...far from here in utter most west remain ar pharazon and his army imprisoned in the caves of the forgotten till the day of doom......
@LordAzanko Also, don't believe for a second that Ar-Pharazon could have killed Sauron. Sauron was always able to escape. He was simply manipulating the king to help him free Morgoth, whom he was still loyal to even then.
@MrZAP17 While it is true that it was beyond the power of Ar-Pharazon to destroy Sauron in any meaningfully permanent way, it is explicitly stated in the Silmarillion that Sauron accomplished by guile what he could not by force of arms; this implies that the strength of Numenor was greater than the power of Mordor even at it's height (Sauron was in possession of the Ring, after all), and that Sauron was forced to rely on trickery to overcome them. Numenor was a legitimate threat to Sauron's plan
@MrZAP17 Basically, the Numenoreans fell victim to pride, as they underestimated the more subtle powers and knowledge at Sauron's disposal, thinking that their dominance over his worldly strength was enough to not only save themselves but to make him their servant. Sauron took advantage of this; it does not seem to be the intention of Tolkien that he planned their downfall in this manner from the beginning, but rather that he thought he could simply crush them.
@MrZAP1i would assume even sauron would know nothing escapes the void not until the end when the dagor dagorath happens and the forces of morgoth and the valar clash for the final time
@urosh43 Yes, and when that happens, the host of Ar-pharazon the Golden will rise again to aid the Free Peoples against Morgoth. It is said that Turin Turambar will strike down Morgoth in single combat with Anglachel, destroying the dark terror forever.
@MrZAP17 what brought the change of heart to pharazon?...since he did come to valinor to take it from the valar and they did imprisoned him there for all those ages....
Question for elf fans: given all the deaths in battles and combat by male warriors, and the fact that elves are immortal, can anyone tell me why there are not many, many more females alive than males? I assume equal numbers of each sex are born.
pharazon should have killed sauron when he was given the chance in his prideful stupidity he damned himself and all of numenor by bringing sauron there......
Numenor would have persihed anyway. The people had become corrupted anyway.
They already started resenting the elves and valar, and were conquering and subjugating the men of ME.
Sauron was only able to seduce them because the shadow had already entered their hearts.
The Eldar described it as the Numenorians witheld their trust of Eru and the Valar, and from that the shadow of fear began to grow in their hearts. Sauron simply used that to destroy them quicker.
@Cathain78 its a real shame that they so chose an ill route to turn your back on those who enriched you and made you stronger?...i guess wisdom was not one of the things that the valar or the eldar brought them?
@LordAzanko Except that pesky detail about Sauron being an immortal Maiar...the most Pharazon could have done is destroy Sauron's physical form, he would have risen up again to attack Numenor. Besides, Numenor was already decaying when Sauron arrived there, he just made it a hell of a lot worse
@DekugaLyon destroying the physical form wouldve been enough for the moment, having him rise again later would be expected, sure, but like the white council in the third age theyve couldve tried to "control" him to make certain he'd never get that kind of power again.
its not like he'd just rise up and be almighty attacking numenor and bring it down right away :p
@DekugaLyon Actually he's right Ar Pharazon could have destroyed Sauron utterly and destroyed his ring as well if he had been a good King. His story is an example of how the mighty fall, not from great upheaval from without but from corruption within.
@LordAzanko True words thou speaketh and yet alas! for the hearts of men work in misterious ways, and they cannot be tamed, and are not subject to their feä as the hearts of the Firstborn. And their ways often go astray, and their paths are oft unknown to the Eldar... such is their fate, why they are mere alien residents upon the circles of the World...
@LordAzanko Yeah, wither they go no one knows, no elf nor dwarf. Tis said even no Vala knows, save only Mandos, and he reveals it to no one. Such is the gift that was granted ti them by Iluvátar, the One who sits upon his lofty throne in the Timeless Halls, he without beginning nor end.
@archaeopteryx91 who do you think pharazon will side with in the end?....will he redeem himself and the numenoreans and fight for the valar or will he complete his damnation and side with morgoth ?
@sotopete i read that myself recently too theres another thing i read as well some stuff saying that in the final battle it will be olorin that will put and end to sauron while turin will kill morgoth its a bloody shame we will never know how it ends
Now, I frown upon racism too. Still, I realize that Tolkien was brought up in a different era, an era that thought differently and would in return frown upon our values.
Even if Tolkien was a child of his own era, it doesn't take away the artistic value of his work. We can still enjoy his books. But it would be silly to deny the obvious. His books do seem to indicate that the writer had a racist, eurocentric mindset.
Yeah Tolkien was never a Nazist, but in 1914 the world was Eurocentric and racism seemed self evident. 40% of the world's population was European white whereas today that is about 15% and declining rapidly. Europeans owned the world 100 years ago, go look at a colonial map. Tolkien was definitely trying to portray Brit stereotypes as the good guys at any rate.
Racism at that time was not frowned upon or considered a bad thing. It was the norm, the way a vast majority of people in western Europe and its numerous colonies thought. It was the undeniable truth of that time, that only a few scarce dissidents questioned. Never, anywhere it has been stated that Tolkien was one of them.
The willingness of todays Tolkien fans to see him as a non racist is because today, racism IS frowned upon, and no one wants to think their hero supported it.
Even Bertrand Russell believed that blacks were stupider and hornier than whites and he was as pinko as you could get back than.
But the tone of Tolkien's narrative did change over the years with the Numenoreans revealing a darker side to their colonialism.
I think the problem is that when people think racist, they think KKK or Hitler which Tolkien could not be further removed from. That is a by-product of the anti-racist propaganda.
Yes, Tolkien said he hates allegory. Many people who think and act racist deny being racists. Tolkien may have said just about anything, but the fact remains that in his work, the appearance of the good guys is built on the stereotype of the "ideal" Western European: tall, white, beautiful. The bad guys are the opposite of this.
And when you think of it, it's no wonder. Tolkien was born in 19th century, in South Africa, to a family that belonged to small white elite.
@Hallanrauta know what? Go somewhere else wit you ideological bulshit! We like it because its beautifull! If you dont like it, write something better! I had just enough of you liberal suckupS ruining every piece of art because you dont agree with somethin in it!
Some of the easterlings were good guys. Some of the tall white beautiful western Europeans were the bad guys. The problem is not the morality, but the narrative that the tall, white, European guys were uniquely experienced and blessed by Gods. There were not so many blacks in Blomfontein and the Boers had a myth that balck migration only happenned after their settlement there and that is was virtually uninhabited since Shaku had butchered the Bantu.
If you're talking about Tolien's motivation's to make a British Mythology, well frankly I think that point of view is taken slightly out of context. He wanted to create a detailed world, not a mythology for the british people.
Middle Earth is not set on the british isles. It is a fictional world and not to be taken litterally. There is no reason why the Numenoreans would listen to anything other than their own music.
The Numenoreans were the Atlanteans. I think it is pretty clear who Tolkien was refering to with the Numenoreans. He was talking about the American/British world domination. Celtic music damnit! This is the sort of crap that Haradrim would listen to as they pondered their cruel actions.
OK. Let's get something straight. There are several cultures in most major mythologies that get destroyed by the gods either by sea, earthquake or fire etc. There are obvious comparisons to be drawn between Numenor and Atlantis. But it's a common theme in most mythologies.
The purging of currupt cultures etc. its not a clear Numenor = Atlantis.
Oh and even if it was that clear and real (which it isn't), they'd be listening to greek music if what you're saying is fact (which it also isn't).
Plato said that Atlantis was beyond the pillars of Hercules, i.e. the British Isles, or at least the British Isles would of been the refuge during the inundation for the survivors.
Oh forgot to mention something else, the whole "Tolkien's mythology as a metaphore for British/American domininance".
Sorry to be blunt but Tolkien was quoted saying that he hated allagories and none of his work should be read into having some sort of comment on the 2nd world war or any time before or after that.
The book took over 50 years to complete, beginning in 1917 during the 1st world war. So I'm guessing that his motivation wasn't to comment on a a period of history that only happened half way through writing the book.
Tolkien said he did not like allegories in the Orwellian sense. That does not mean that there is nothing allegorical about his works in intention. The British empire was dominant and it transformed into an Anglo-American hegemony.
Unfortunately it does mean exactly that. What you are describing IS allegories in the Orwellian sense.
Tolkien started writing The Silmarillion in the trenches in 1917 when no thought had been given to American dominance. It was only until the end of the second world war that America became a dominant military force.
So you're saying that he decided to write a book for nearly two decades before his full subject matter for the allegory even came into being? You've read too much into his story.
Mate I think Orwellian allegories might just be normal, everyday allegories in that case!
Either way, it doesn't matter. I beleive Tolkien's main reason for writing all of these books (bar The Hobbit) was to make a detailed world to surround the languages he created. That may not have been his reason for starting it but that is the general impression I get from interviews etc. Let alone reading them!
Tolkien wanted to create a mithology, he also disliked the irish culture, the numenoreans were a mix of greek, bizantine and egyptian culture, Atalante is in adunaik and means The Downfallen, England in "the lost tales II" is supposed to be the Lonely Island not Numenor, and the rohirrim could be the ancient brittish (saxons).
Actually Irish and other Celts were meant to be Dunlendings and the men of Bree. They were descended from the the second house of edain, the Haladin but the Numenoreans treated them badly forgetting their ancient kinship.
The Rohirrim were meant to be northmen/norsemen/teutonic steppesmen like the Goths or any of the other Germanics including Saxons, and related to those of the 3rd house of the edain who turned back before they got to Beleriand.
@imrepohl Even through Tolkien hated allegories it is clear that Númenor was inspired by the fate of Atlantis. And there is also one interesting thing about these two islands - Númenor is also known as Atalantë in Quenya
@imrepohl Good call! I always remember that quote by him whenever I find myself drifting off into some metaphorical comparison between his work and the real life values and ethics. I believe he certainly drew inspiration from his real life experiences such as his fighting in the war, but as he said, there are not hidden messages.
No. This happened in the elven city named Gondolin. Gothmog was the Balrog's name. He was slain by Glorfindel. Numenor was destroyed by the wrath of the gods.
No, Gothmog was slain by Ecthelion, lord of the Fountain. Glorfindel, on the other hand, slew another balrog in the Eagle's Cleft, when he led the rearguard of the refugees away from Gondolin.
ee... no? Numenor wasn't city, it was great Island and Empire. It was destroyed by great wave sent by Valars because Dunedain rebbelled and wanted to reach immortality by defeating Valars.
oh by the way Aragorn live to the age i think 137 when he died and Merridoc brandbock and Pergirn took where bury by Aragorn, Arwen was over come with grief and her light in her eyes went out she died in Lorien land of her mother...never again seen by any mortal. Aragorn was also both king of Gondor and Arnor land of Elendil
Aragorn is in dicret desdant of Elendil who is a Numenor, Aragorn and Elrond are of the same blood and forefather...if you want to know all about Aragorn and the tie with Numenor read his Linage Aragorn was the not the last Numenor king altough it was the last to live so long, his son was numenor too of Aragorn and Arwen so there for his son is of more noble blood then Aragorn...i could go on
Aragorn is known as Isildurs heir but he is the heir of Elendil (Tar-Elendil) the 4th king of Numenor and he is a Numenorian because of his blood-line
Dunedain the Numenorians n Dunadan the Numenorian. Dunedain mean the friends of the elves(edain) or if u want the not corrupted(from both Morgoth n Sauron) of the west if i am not wrong in the translation.
Great account, but Morgoth was never really destroyed. He was put in chains and banished to Avakúma, the vast void beyond the bounds of Eä. The prophecies however, predicts his return in the Dagor Dagorath, the War of Wars.
I hope this helped a bit. Now have me excused whilst I delve deeper into the marvellous halls of Tolkien's Legendarium.
@pmlopmlop-Very true Sauron was maiar(servant created by the gods) to Aule at first until melkor lured him to the darkside.I wonder who gandalf was a servant to?also who did saruman and radagast serve aswell in the time before time?i'll have to look that up.
@pmlopmlop All is correct except the fact that Morgoth(or Melkur) was not destroyed but imprisoned by Valars, his spirit was cast out beyond the Walls of Night in the timeless Void, chained with magic chain Angainor, made by Manwë himself. He was never to return until End of Time, when prophecy says he will return for the Final Battle.
@pmlopmlop But wait a minute.Wasnt Morgoth Vala himself?The strongest of Valas if i'm correct.So i think he was imprisoned/destroyed(not sure what it was)by a higher forces?Though im not sure if there was something like that,and if there was what was their name.And if im not confused they all served the creator ,both them and the valas .Then there were the Maiar who served the god and the Valas,and they them self had servants....Damn! i forgot their name,i know both Saruman and Barlog were those
@FBFTheRagingWarrior Morgoth (or Melkor) was indeed a Vala. He was the great enemy of the Valar, the Elves, the Dwarves and Men. He was very powerful and destructive and killed many heroes. Eventually, the Valar got so sick of him (so to speak), that they calld on Eru Illuvitar the creator. Illuvitar threw Morgoth into the Void.Mandos made a prophecy, that at the end of days, Morgoth would break out of the Void and assault Arda one last time and Tulkas would wrestle him and beat him.
@awesomeshieldmaiden Yes. Thank you for correcting me.But one thing remains.LIke Morgoth was a vala,Saruon a Maia,what were the lesser beings like Saruman,The barlogs (not sure the name of their race) etc etc.?
@FBFTheRagingWarrior they were Maia also. The Istari (wizards) were 5 of the greater Maiar who were chosen by Manwe (King of the Valar) to aid the free peoples of Middle-earth to defeat Sauron. They were sent in the beginning of the 3rd age. . The balrogs are evil Maiar who have been corrupted by Morgoth\Sauron. If this doesn't make sense, look it up on Wikipedia or(re)read the Silmarillion,
@supersmashtuezday No no, Not at all it all makes sense.Thanks.And yes i think i'll read it ,the Silmarillion is the first book followed by the Hobbit and LOTR right?
@FBFTheRagingWarrior -morgoth is not the strongest vala,manwe is and there is a god higher than the valar,i don't remember his name though.He created the valar,elves and humans-read the silmarillan if you want to know more.
@lopmch5 Melkor was in fact the strongest of all the Ainur, this is stated clearly in The Silmarilion. Once he turned to darkness and was called Morgoth by the elves Manwe was considered the most powerful of the remaining Valar.
@landonthedrummer Your right i just went on wikipedia and looked it up.melkor is the strongest valar because he possesses all of iluvatars thoughts.however,tulkas is physically stronger and could beat morgoth in a fight which i believe he does in the book.
Manwe,his brother,is king of the valar.I think that's where i got confused.Also nothing is stated clearly in the silmarillion,it's a very hard read.
@lopmch5 Right on. The Silmarillion is a tough read that is true, but Iluvatar said himself that Melkor was the mightiest of the Ainur. "Then Iluvatar spoke, and he said: 'Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor;...'. Page 6 in the Silmarillion. Thats pretty clear, mate. :)
But Melkor was later banished from the order of Valar even through you are true, he was mightiest, but he wasted his power. I´ve read that Sauron later gained so much power that he got pretty close to Morgoth (in means of power) but I´m not sure about it...
And there is also one thing - there were more Ainur that haven´t descended into Arda, only 15 of them did and we know nothing about those except for they existed. Melkor was the most powerful from those in Arda :)
@Fealiath It is true that Sauron was very similar to Melkor in terms of his malice and hatred as time passed, and I know his power grew, but I do not know how powerful he was in relation to Melkor. I'll have to see if I can find some clarification on that because I am going to wonder about it until I do. I know there were many Ainur that didn't come to Arda but you can't honestly think that there was a more mighty Ainu than Melkor when Iluvatar said himself he was the mightiest.
@landonthedrummer We don´t know the powers of those Ainur which stayed out of Arda. They might be even more powerful than Morgoth, we have no way how to find the truth. I´m just saying that Morgoth was mightiest from those, who descended into Arda. Manwe was second to him in power, but he had better understandings of Eru´s thoughts and plans.
@Fealiath True, we do not know the full extent of the Ainur powers that stayed with Iluvatar. We do, however, know that Iluvatar called Melkor the mightiest of the Ainur when ALL of the Ainur were gathered to sing the Great Theme. Iluvatar called Melkor the mightiest BEFORE any Ainur departed for Arda. In fact, he called Melkor the mightiest before the Ainur even knew the grand scheme of Iluvatar's Theme. This is clearly stated in the first five pages of the Silmarillion.
@landonthedrummer I´ll have to check it when I get home from the university because I´m still uncertain about it. You know, I just think that if every Ainur sang in the Music then every Ainur should descend into Arda (because only those who helped to create Arda should be given powers to rule over its elements). I don´t know why, but I still regard Melkor only as the greatest of Valar not greatest of Ainur (because Valar were something like order - the very same pattern later used for Istari)
@landonthedrummer How can melkor be considered the greatest of the valar when he was the only valar that knew "Fear" plus he was bested and imprisoned. In the wrightings of Dagor dagorlath when he does break free he will be destroyed and the second song will be sung and it will be greater than the first and all who have fallen shall rise up and start anew.
@georgeellas good lord, I thought this conversation was finally over. I'm tired of defending this. I mean honestly, how many times am I going to have to quote the book about this matter? To tell you the truth I don't really care what you think you know. If you are going to call J. R.R. Tolkien a liar about WHO HE SAID WAS THE MIGHTIEST then call up his son, Chris, and tell him. Better yet, why don't you resurrect him and feed him this garbage you're trying to feed me.
@pmlopmlop Just to let you know it's spelled Maiar and the correct grammar for that context would be Maia because it's singular. The plural of Maia is Maiar. And otherwise you're pretty much correct. just one fun fact: the Maiar were the lesser Ainur, the servants of the greater Ainur, The Valar. Sauron's original name was Mairon (the Admirable) and before his down fall, he served Aulë the Maker, who was the smith for the Valar and the creator of the dwarves.
It is not sure if Gandalf´s a Maia. He is one of the Istari, the wizards, but it is not sure if they´re Maiar (although it is believed...). And I would not say Gandalf is less powerfull ;)
no he's not a numenor king, we treated the numenorians as threat and so long devised their downfall, he let himself be brought to numenor and then told lies to the king to bring conflict in numenor and the elves and valars.
Yeah then he corrupts the numenorians save a few that sail away called the "Faithfull". Sauron manipulates the Numenorian king into attacking the undying lands and while doing so twists the people of numenor into worshiping him like a god with animal and eventually human sacrifice.
The Faithfull include Elendil and Isildur? Not sure if that's right or not. But anyway they leave Numenor and go to Middle Earth.
Yes the faithful include Elendil and his sons. Amandil, father of Elendil, was the lord of Anduine; the house of the faithful who were descendants of Elros-Tar Minyatur but were not of the royal house.
numenor was 20x more amazing and epic than these pictures in lotr im arathour real name tar golothorn last prince of numenor son of tar palantir if you think numenoreans are now corrupt there are the rangers and a few that escaped that day
lordarathour 5 days ago
When i read the comments i get the impression evryone thinks the Numenoreans gto evil, while they were just being less elvish and more human. And in Tolkiens world (a bit in contrast to ours) there IS a major injustice - of the Humans there is "required a blind trust" while the elves go straight to paradise :D -in my opinion the envy isnt so unnatural -and it certainly isnt straight away evil.
rocknaho 2 months ago 2
Númenor is nothing other than Tolkien's interpretation of Atlantis. A profound teacher who tells you the real history of the world up until the present day.
BeyondDogmaTV 3 months ago
tale of numenor is actually is telling how humans are in wreal life , how they become cruel and arrogant only when they have power and how easly they are seduced to evil and tirany . In the end theyr power and arrogance destroyes them .
TheVikiLaki 4 months ago
Just amazing! l love the pics, too. Makes me want to cry for something l lost long ago
JoralynElensar 4 months ago
I see certain similarities between numenor and Atlantis. Someone explain
majormcjansen 5 months ago
@majormcjansen Yes indeed those two tales are quite similar. And it cannot be denied that the tale of Atlantis served as an inspiration for the tale of the Akallabeth (the Downfall of Númenor) much as the Biblical account of how Satan came to be inspired the tale of Morgoth the Dark Lord (you can read Ezekiel 28:12-17 and see it yourself) Also it's noteworthy that a later name for Nùmenor among the Dùnadan is Atalantë, meaning "The Downfallen" in Quenya, the language of the High Elves.
archaeopteryx91 4 months ago
Numenor has been distroyed by its own people, but not without sauron's help. they feared from death and sauron used it to wipe them out. sauron indeed is celver, and togethar with his power nothing could stop him,but he was foolish eonought to create the one ring and risk his life if the ring will be distroyed, heh brought on himself death, not without frodo's help.
JustForFun575 5 months ago
in the end ar-pharazon got what he wanted - immortality, only not the way he wanted...
WoollyMammoth16 5 months ago
who`s numenor brother of sauron?
willffre 5 months ago
Why is every comment so damn long! :P
Prolord1000 6 months ago 9
a fear of death is main reason for numenors evil a fear of the unknown and sauron took advantage of that fear and doomed numenor to human sacrifice and finnaly its destuction
cianandseans 6 months ago
@cianandseans and thanks the fear that was placed into humanity ever since its first awakening in the east and thats why in the end it will be by the hand of turin himself that morgoth will fall to
LordAzanko 4 months ago
@w4keNb4ke: WRONG Tolkien was NOT a Hippie-Neo-Pagan like Modern Nimrods believe him to be.
By Tolkein's own words, He said that His stories were inspired by His CATHOLIC Up-Bringing.
Pentagram B.S. & Sorcery-Insinuations were/are only made up by people who want to turn Tolkein's Good
Works into something selfish & self-serving. Next time at least put more effort by citing one of Tolkein's
Quotes/References.
GILR8 7 months ago
WHAT FONT IS IT!!
mrslovehearts 7 months ago
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beautiful ....absolutly beautiful ....whats the music? and it makes you sad to think that not much is known about numenor and so on....JRR Tolkien ROCKES :) GREATEST BOOK WRITER EVER !! YOU'LL BE FOREVER WITH US FANS OF YOUR ASWESOME BOOKS!! it's really sad that u had to die and leave us wanting more from your awesome talents i can't get enough
mrslovehearts 8 months ago
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mrslovehearts 8 months ago
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mrslovehearts 8 months ago
this is amazing but i'm sad because not much is known about numenor and so on and it's home to the mouth of sauron ..anyway ..beautiful :) JRR Tolkien ROCKES :) GREATEST BOOK WRITER EVER !! YOU'LL BE FOREVER WITH US FANS OF YOUR ASWESOME BOOKS!!
mrslovehearts 8 months ago
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mrslovehearts 8 months ago
there is some similarities in the story of atlantis described by plato. tolkien must have some inspiration from ancient greek mythology, egypt's pyramids. or perhaps ancient alien theories. including the mayas
rabisrabis 9 months ago
Thats sucks that Numenor gets destroyed Numenor was my favorite thing in Lord of the Rings
soukupb 9 months ago
The music is really great, one of my favorites. I think its called Fields of Lebennin by the Tolkien Ensemble.
LimesNorrlandicus 10 months ago
the music fits the tale of vanished westernesse its greatness ,its glory ,and its fall and utter destruction by the numenoreans pride.....
LordAzanko 10 months ago
@Jaster: which book did u get ur information about the ring from? id really like to know because from the silmarillion and the lotr i felt the second age came a bit short. But perhaps theres hope that i just dont know about a book ? *looking forward*
rocknaho 10 months ago
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xxJasterMereelxx 10 months ago
@rocknaho Sauron made the One Ring, and this provoked the war of the Elves and Sauron, which was long before Ar Pharazon came to the throne. Sauron had the Ring when he was in Numenor. Look at the timing. It's in the Akallabeth, and again it's stated in the section Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, the final seciton of the Silmarillion volume. My thoughts on what the ring does is just an interpretation based on it's stated effects.
xxJasterMereelxx 10 months ago
Part of the reason why Ar Pharazon didn't destroy Sauron when he had the chance was that he *couldn't*. And I don't mean he could not have destroyed his physical form; it was within his power to do that, at least. Sauron was in possession of the One Ring by the time he came into the court of the King. That is the reason. The One Ring's power is to create a sense of legitimacy in those it affects; to the weak, this is authority, and in the strong the words of the bearer sound sweet and true.
xxJasterMereelxx 10 months ago
I think that Sauron was quite different from Morgoth because Morgoth was just trying to destroy (or at least spoil and cripple) what others created (and so he wasted his powers) but Sauron wanted to rule the world and so he was trying to enslave the free people of Middle-Earth. You can see that in the Third Age in creation of the Rings of Power. I also suppose that he recieved some portion of Melkor´s original power but I´m not sure about this.
Fealiath 1 year ago
"Black numenorians" "How can we serve thee?"
warobsessive 1 year ago
@warobsessive
i love that mod :D
Oraphonic 1 year ago
How much do the events from the Silmarillion factor into the Lord of the Rings book and film adaptation? I understand that Aragorn was a decendant of the Numenorians, but was that fact ever elaborated upon in the LOTR novel, or was it later pointed out in Silmarillion?
jstephenj 1 year ago
and now as we sit here and hear the tale of the splendour and majesty of numenor that once was...far from here in utter most west remain ar pharazon and his army imprisoned in the caves of the forgotten till the day of doom......
LordAzanko 1 year ago
@LordAzanko Also, don't believe for a second that Ar-Pharazon could have killed Sauron. Sauron was always able to escape. He was simply manipulating the king to help him free Morgoth, whom he was still loyal to even then.
MrZAP17 1 year ago
@MrZAP17 While it is true that it was beyond the power of Ar-Pharazon to destroy Sauron in any meaningfully permanent way, it is explicitly stated in the Silmarillion that Sauron accomplished by guile what he could not by force of arms; this implies that the strength of Numenor was greater than the power of Mordor even at it's height (Sauron was in possession of the Ring, after all), and that Sauron was forced to rely on trickery to overcome them. Numenor was a legitimate threat to Sauron's plan
xxJasterMereelxx 1 year ago
@MrZAP17 Basically, the Numenoreans fell victim to pride, as they underestimated the more subtle powers and knowledge at Sauron's disposal, thinking that their dominance over his worldly strength was enough to not only save themselves but to make him their servant. Sauron took advantage of this; it does not seem to be the intention of Tolkien that he planned their downfall in this manner from the beginning, but rather that he thought he could simply crush them.
xxJasterMereelxx 1 year ago
@MrZAP1i would assume even sauron would know nothing escapes the void not until the end when the dagor dagorath happens and the forces of morgoth and the valar clash for the final time
LordAzanko 11 months ago
@urosh43 Yes, and when that happens, the host of Ar-pharazon the Golden will rise again to aid the Free Peoples against Morgoth. It is said that Turin Turambar will strike down Morgoth in single combat with Anglachel, destroying the dark terror forever.
MrZAP17 1 year ago
@MrZAP17 what brought the change of heart to pharazon?...since he did come to valinor to take it from the valar and they did imprisoned him there for all those ages....
LordAzanko 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Question for elf fans: given all the deaths in battles and combat by male warriors, and the fact that elves are immortal, can anyone tell me why there are not many, many more females alive than males? I assume equal numbers of each sex are born.
wen2110 1 year ago
pharazon should have killed sauron when he was given the chance in his prideful stupidity he damned himself and all of numenor by bringing sauron there......
LordAzanko 1 year ago 25
@LordAzanko was it pride, or mercy?
alphros 11 months ago
@alphros over weening pride and immense stupidity there was no mercy at pharazon's actions
LordAzanko 11 months ago
@LordAzanko
Numenor would have persihed anyway. The people had become corrupted anyway.
They already started resenting the elves and valar, and were conquering and subjugating the men of ME.
Sauron was only able to seduce them because the shadow had already entered their hearts.
The Eldar described it as the Numenorians witheld their trust of Eru and the Valar, and from that the shadow of fear began to grow in their hearts. Sauron simply used that to destroy them quicker.
Cathain78 11 months ago 6
@Cathain78 its a real shame that they so chose an ill route to turn your back on those who enriched you and made you stronger?...i guess wisdom was not one of the things that the valar or the eldar brought them?
LordAzanko 11 months ago
@LordAzanko
Indeed - as the old saying goes, "Pride comes before a Fall".
Cathain78 11 months ago
@Cathain78 Numenor is kinda like America has become.
DJMimzy 2 months ago
@DJMimzy
Yes, but the imagery can be applied to various empires and institutions.
History repeats the same story - their power and pride increases and they turn from liberators into oppressors.
The people become decadent and morally bankrupt and the inevtiable collapse occurs after a long decline.
Cathain78 2 months ago
@Cathain78 Definitely. America, and Rome and Atlantis before them
DJMimzy 2 months ago
@LordAzanko then there would be no the LOTR story.
EldarioNTheKinG 9 months ago
@LordAzanko Except that pesky detail about Sauron being an immortal Maiar...the most Pharazon could have done is destroy Sauron's physical form, he would have risen up again to attack Numenor. Besides, Numenor was already decaying when Sauron arrived there, he just made it a hell of a lot worse
DekugaLyon 8 months ago
@DekugaLyon destroying the physical form wouldve been enough for the moment, having him rise again later would be expected, sure, but like the white council in the third age theyve couldve tried to "control" him to make certain he'd never get that kind of power again.
its not like he'd just rise up and be almighty attacking numenor and bring it down right away :p
Alycla 8 months ago
@DekugaLyon Actually he's right Ar Pharazon could have destroyed Sauron utterly and destroyed his ring as well if he had been a good King. His story is an example of how the mighty fall, not from great upheaval from without but from corruption within.
allankles 8 months ago in playlist Beautiful Music vol. 1
@LordAzanko True words thou speaketh and yet alas! for the hearts of men work in misterious ways, and they cannot be tamed, and are not subject to their feä as the hearts of the Firstborn. And their ways often go astray, and their paths are oft unknown to the Eldar... such is their fate, why they are mere alien residents upon the circles of the World...
archaeopteryx91 4 months ago
@archaeopteryx91 and yet so for that we still no know where they go when they leave those circles of the world
LordAzanko 4 months ago
@LordAzanko Yeah, wither they go no one knows, no elf nor dwarf. Tis said even no Vala knows, save only Mandos, and he reveals it to no one. Such is the gift that was granted ti them by Iluvátar, the One who sits upon his lofty throne in the Timeless Halls, he without beginning nor end.
archaeopteryx91 4 months ago
@archaeopteryx91 who do you think pharazon will side with in the end?....will he redeem himself and the numenoreans and fight for the valar or will he complete his damnation and side with morgoth ?
LordAzanko 4 months ago
@LordAzanko I believe that tolkien said in one of his books that pharazon will fight for valar.
sotopete 4 months ago
@sotopete i read that myself recently too theres another thing i read as well some stuff saying that in the final battle it will be olorin that will put and end to sauron while turin will kill morgoth its a bloody shame we will never know how it ends
LordAzanko 4 months ago
sauron ist ja selber eig nur so was wie ein vorbote oder diener^^
Masterewhjf 1 year ago
imo tolkien is similar to oddyseus..
enleykw 1 year ago
this guy inspires me alot :P
gormitiguy1 1 year ago
I Love Numenerions aragon is one
the video is very calm
MrWekill123 1 year ago
what the race of man could have been
nunnrz1 1 year ago
Now, I frown upon racism too. Still, I realize that Tolkien was brought up in a different era, an era that thought differently and would in return frown upon our values.
Even if Tolkien was a child of his own era, it doesn't take away the artistic value of his work. We can still enjoy his books. But it would be silly to deny the obvious. His books do seem to indicate that the writer had a racist, eurocentric mindset.
Hallanrauta 1 year ago
Yeah Tolkien was never a Nazist, but in 1914 the world was Eurocentric and racism seemed self evident. 40% of the world's population was European white whereas today that is about 15% and declining rapidly. Europeans owned the world 100 years ago, go look at a colonial map. Tolkien was definitely trying to portray Brit stereotypes as the good guys at any rate.
SonsofFeanor 1 year ago
Racism at that time was not frowned upon or considered a bad thing. It was the norm, the way a vast majority of people in western Europe and its numerous colonies thought. It was the undeniable truth of that time, that only a few scarce dissidents questioned. Never, anywhere it has been stated that Tolkien was one of them.
The willingness of todays Tolkien fans to see him as a non racist is because today, racism IS frowned upon, and no one wants to think their hero supported it.
Hallanrauta 1 year ago
Even Bertrand Russell believed that blacks were stupider and hornier than whites and he was as pinko as you could get back than.
But the tone of Tolkien's narrative did change over the years with the Numenoreans revealing a darker side to their colonialism.
I think the problem is that when people think racist, they think KKK or Hitler which Tolkien could not be further removed from. That is a by-product of the anti-racist propaganda.
SonsofFeanor 1 year ago
Yes, Tolkien said he hates allegory. Many people who think and act racist deny being racists. Tolkien may have said just about anything, but the fact remains that in his work, the appearance of the good guys is built on the stereotype of the "ideal" Western European: tall, white, beautiful. The bad guys are the opposite of this.
And when you think of it, it's no wonder. Tolkien was born in 19th century, in South Africa, to a family that belonged to small white elite.
Hallanrauta 1 year ago
@Hallanrauta know what? Go somewhere else wit you ideological bulshit! We like it because its beautifull! If you dont like it, write something better! I had just enough of you liberal suckupS ruining every piece of art because you dont agree with somethin in it!
Belokki 1 year ago 4
Some of the easterlings were good guys. Some of the tall white beautiful western Europeans were the bad guys. The problem is not the morality, but the narrative that the tall, white, European guys were uniquely experienced and blessed by Gods. There were not so many blacks in Blomfontein and the Boers had a myth that balck migration only happenned after their settlement there and that is was virtually uninhabited since Shaku had butchered the Bantu.
SonsofFeanor 1 year ago
@Hallanrauta the universe does not suffer your anthropocentric insecurities
notrwhitecrow 8 months ago
never get tired of searching stuff up like this
k1ll3rtr0n 1 year ago 2
some say that alantis is in the bermuda triangle evry1 who trys to enter is DEAD RIP
DouweHisagi 2 years ago
Tolkien ensemble suck.
Numenoreans would of been listening to Celtic music not eastern European rubbish.
pscucailin 2 years ago
It's fictional dude!
imrepohl 2 years ago
@imrepohl Yeah I know, but you miss the point of Tolkien's myth.
pscucailin 2 years ago
@pscucailin Um, no I don't.
If you're talking about Tolien's motivation's to make a British Mythology, well frankly I think that point of view is taken slightly out of context. He wanted to create a detailed world, not a mythology for the british people.
Middle Earth is not set on the british isles. It is a fictional world and not to be taken litterally. There is no reason why the Numenoreans would listen to anything other than their own music.
imrepohl 2 years ago
Their own music would be celtic because they are the ancestors of the British and Irish races.
pscucailin 2 years ago
Again. They are not and never were a real race. They are a fictional race created in the 20th century.
imrepohl 2 years ago
The Numenoreans were the Atlanteans. I think it is pretty clear who Tolkien was refering to with the Numenoreans. He was talking about the American/British world domination. Celtic music damnit! This is the sort of crap that Haradrim would listen to as they pondered their cruel actions.
pscucailin 2 years ago
OK. Let's get something straight. There are several cultures in most major mythologies that get destroyed by the gods either by sea, earthquake or fire etc. There are obvious comparisons to be drawn between Numenor and Atlantis. But it's a common theme in most mythologies.
The purging of currupt cultures etc. its not a clear Numenor = Atlantis.
Oh and even if it was that clear and real (which it isn't), they'd be listening to greek music if what you're saying is fact (which it also isn't).
imrepohl 2 years ago
Atalante. (atani = man, lante = land)
Plato said that Atlantis was beyond the pillars of Hercules, i.e. the British Isles, or at least the British Isles would of been the refuge during the inundation for the survivors.
Thus Celtic music.
pscucailin 2 years ago
Look I'm bored of this. Atlantis = fictional, Middle Earth - FICTIONAL
Oh forgot to mention something else, the whole "Tolkien's mythology as a metaphore for British/American domininance".
Sorry to be blunt but Tolkien was quoted saying that he hated allagories and none of his work should be read into having some sort of comment on the 2nd world war or any time before or after that.
imrepohl 2 years ago 21
One more thing to add to that...
The book took over 50 years to complete, beginning in 1917 during the 1st world war. So I'm guessing that his motivation wasn't to comment on a a period of history that only happened half way through writing the book.
imrepohl 2 years ago
Tolkien said he did not like allegories in the Orwellian sense. That does not mean that there is nothing allegorical about his works in intention. The British empire was dominant and it transformed into an Anglo-American hegemony.
pscucailin 2 years ago
Unfortunately it does mean exactly that. What you are describing IS allegories in the Orwellian sense.
Tolkien started writing The Silmarillion in the trenches in 1917 when no thought had been given to American dominance. It was only until the end of the second world war that America became a dominant military force.
So you're saying that he decided to write a book for nearly two decades before his full subject matter for the allegory even came into being? You've read too much into his story.
imrepohl 2 years ago
No in the time that he started, the British Empire was the greatest on earth. An Island nation.
After WW2, this transformed into an Anglo-American allaince.
As well as the fact that Numenor was a later concept developed.
Orwellian allegories had some pre-concieved point to the story.
pscucailin 2 years ago
Mate I think Orwellian allegories might just be normal, everyday allegories in that case!
Either way, it doesn't matter. I beleive Tolkien's main reason for writing all of these books (bar The Hobbit) was to make a detailed world to surround the languages he created. That may not have been his reason for starting it but that is the general impression I get from interviews etc. Let alone reading them!
imrepohl 2 years ago
Ok, This goes for both of you:
Tolkien wanted to create a mithology, he also disliked the irish culture, the numenoreans were a mix of greek, bizantine and egyptian culture, Atalante is in adunaik and means The Downfallen, England in "the lost tales II" is supposed to be the Lonely Island not Numenor, and the rohirrim could be the ancient brittish (saxons).
Kelithrandil 2 years ago
Actually Irish and other Celts were meant to be Dunlendings and the men of Bree. They were descended from the the second house of edain, the Haladin but the Numenoreans treated them badly forgetting their ancient kinship.
The Rohirrim were meant to be northmen/norsemen/teutonic steppesmen like the Goths or any of the other Germanics including Saxons, and related to those of the 3rd house of the edain who turned back before they got to Beleriand.
The Numenoreans were meant proto-Celtic.
pscucailin 2 years ago
@imrepohl Even through Tolkien hated allegories it is clear that Númenor was inspired by the fate of Atlantis. And there is also one interesting thing about these two islands - Númenor is also known as Atalantë in Quenya
Fealiath 1 year ago
@imrepohl Good call! I always remember that quote by him whenever I find myself drifting off into some metaphorical comparison between his work and the real life values and ethics. I believe he certainly drew inspiration from his real life experiences such as his fighting in the war, but as he said, there are not hidden messages.
Talaxy 11 months ago
thats tolkiens kind of interpretation of atlantis...^^ Sauron is always tricking the humans. And Numenor was just the beginning...
StrangeTickingNoise 2 years ago
i love this music so much.
does anyone know wat it is
i no its by the tolkein ensemble but wats it called!
Blink182Hero 2 years ago
whow i like the myth's of lotr
MrErickArend 2 years ago
a city of numénor was destroyed by a sort of balrog isn't it?
MrErickArend 2 years ago
No. This happened in the elven city named Gondolin. Gothmog was the Balrog's name. He was slain by Glorfindel. Numenor was destroyed by the wrath of the gods.
Christian8606 2 years ago
No, Gothmog was slain by Ecthelion, lord of the Fountain. Glorfindel, on the other hand, slew another balrog in the Eagle's Cleft, when he led the rearguard of the refugees away from Gondolin.
LimesNorrlandicus 2 years ago
ee... no? Numenor wasn't city, it was great Island and Empire. It was destroyed by great wave sent by Valars because Dunedain rebbelled and wanted to reach immortality by defeating Valars.
Adihash666 2 years ago
No, it was Eru Illuvatar himself that created the rift between Númenor and the Undying Lands and the subsequent waves...
LimesNorrlandicus 2 years ago
you're right. I've forgotten
Adihash666 2 years ago
No balrog ever got anywhere near Númenor.
Most of them were slain before Númenor was created by the gods at the beginning of the second age.
It's almost definite that the last balrog in Middle-earth was the one Gandalf slew at the end of the third age.
LimesNorrlandicus 2 years ago
Rofl dwrves were created by the Valar Aule not by Tom Bombadil.
xxAtlantianKnightxx 2 years ago 2
Sauron the Maia
its spelled this way.
Sauron was a Maia in the services of Aule, before he was corrupted or seduced by Melkor.
MelkorBauglir25 2 years ago
"Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world." Elendil
takashin123 2 years ago 6
the world of tolkien is amazing....
i must living there............
trelosamil 2 years ago 41
@trelosamil
But don't get in touch with ze dark side...!
pwoni 1 year ago
oh by the way Aragorn live to the age i think 137 when he died and Merridoc brandbock and Pergirn took where bury by Aragorn, Arwen was over come with grief and her light in her eyes went out she died in Lorien land of her mother...never again seen by any mortal. Aragorn was also both king of Gondor and Arnor land of Elendil
Estel1420 2 years ago
Uh.. Aragorn died at like, 210 years or so. I remember reading something like they passed over the seas (dead) or something.
Aragorn was definently a king though you got that right.
MidnightFox224 2 years ago
aragorn was like 90 years old during the war of the ring... we lived beyond two hundred years old because of his numenorian blood...
mauroranw 2 years ago
Was Sauron a numenor king?
QuickJedi93 2 years ago
No. But I think he advised the last numenor king. That's pretty much it.
MidnightFox224 2 years ago
Yeah i think he was, how would he know so much about aragorn?
QuickJedi93 2 years ago
honestly... what's Aragorn got to do with being a Numenor king? Aragorn and Numenor are way off from each other like.. some thousand years.
MidnightFox224 2 years ago
Aragorn is in dicret desdant of Elendil who is a Numenor, Aragorn and Elrond are of the same blood and forefather...if you want to know all about Aragorn and the tie with Numenor read his Linage Aragorn was the not the last Numenor king altough it was the last to live so long, his son was numenor too of Aragorn and Arwen so there for his son is of more noble blood then Aragorn...i could go on
Estel1420 2 years ago
Aragorn is known as Isildurs heir but he is the heir of Elendil (Tar-Elendil) the 4th king of Numenor and he is a Numenorian because of his blood-line
TheDevjin 2 years ago
Yes. Oh by the way, what's up with the second name for the Numenorians... the Dunedin?
MidnightFox224 2 years ago
Dunedain the Numenorians n Dunadan the Numenorian. Dunedain mean the friends of the elves(edain) or if u want the not corrupted(from both Morgoth n Sauron) of the west if i am not wrong in the translation.
Comandate7 2 years ago
Oh ok. Thanks bro.
MidnightFox224 2 years ago
no sauron was a valar? i believe, the same race as gandalf, only he turned VERY evil
deadgameover 2 years ago
both sauron and gandalf are ainur or servents of the valar.
Wellsy411 2 years ago
sauron was Maiar
only Morgoth was Valar
Ainur is not servent of valar that is name of valars when they didnt come to Arda (earth) yet
sorry for my bad english
PoglavnikPavelic 2 years ago
No, Sauron was a Mayar (don't know if it's spelled correct) kind of a spirit.
It can take a mortal form (human) or something else. Gandalf also is a Mayar, but he is less powerful.
He wanted power, and start working for Morgoth (Melkor). When the Vala destroyed Morgoth, Sauron builded his empire known as Mordor.
(if i'm wrong, please correct me)
pmlopmlop 2 years ago 26
he built his empire, not builded.
i know, annoying, but you did say 'correct me if im wrong'
scandishredder 2 years ago
lol, np, i'm not english, so i'll make some mistakes on grammar, i'm sorry... :p
pmlopmlop 2 years ago 4
i thought gandalf was one of the istari? a god.
jasonecc 2 years ago
Istari are the Maia in human form.
So, yes, Gandalf is an Istari :)
pmlopmlop 2 years ago 4
@pmlopmlop
it called vallar :)
TheSoulhunta 1 year ago
@TheSoulhunta -valar-one L
lopmch5 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop
Maiar, but yeah, that's exactly what happened.
BigDoob420 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop
Great account, but Morgoth was never really destroyed. He was put in chains and banished to Avakúma, the vast void beyond the bounds of Eä. The prophecies however, predicts his return in the Dagor Dagorath, the War of Wars.
I hope this helped a bit. Now have me excused whilst I delve deeper into the marvellous halls of Tolkien's Legendarium.
helburr 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop-Very true Sauron was maiar(servant created by the gods) to Aule at first until melkor lured him to the darkside.I wonder who gandalf was a servant to?also who did saruman and radagast serve aswell in the time before time?i'll have to look that up.
lopmch5 1 year ago
@lopmch5 -Gandalf was originally known as Olorin and served the god Manwe,
lopmch5 1 year ago 8
@lopmch5 Manwe was the strongest Vala right?
FBFTheRagingWarrior 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop Maiar, I think.
arryarrfiddledeedee 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop
That's right. But it's spelled Maiar.
xxSanadaxx 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop All is correct except the fact that Morgoth(or Melkur) was not destroyed but imprisoned by Valars, his spirit was cast out beyond the Walls of Night in the timeless Void, chained with magic chain Angainor, made by Manwë himself. He was never to return until End of Time, when prophecy says he will return for the Final Battle.
urosh43 1 year ago
@urosh43 didn't know that, thanks for sharing.
pmlopmlop 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop No problem friend, its my pleasure. :)
urosh43 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop But wait a minute.Wasnt Morgoth Vala himself?The strongest of Valas if i'm correct.So i think he was imprisoned/destroyed(not sure what it was)by a higher forces?Though im not sure if there was something like that,and if there was what was their name.And if im not confused they all served the creator ,both them and the valas .Then there were the Maiar who served the god and the Valas,and they them self had servants....Damn! i forgot their name,i know both Saruman and Barlog were those
FBFTheRagingWarrior 1 year ago
@FBFTheRagingWarrior Morgoth (or Melkor) was indeed a Vala. He was the great enemy of the Valar, the Elves, the Dwarves and Men. He was very powerful and destructive and killed many heroes. Eventually, the Valar got so sick of him (so to speak), that they calld on Eru Illuvitar the creator. Illuvitar threw Morgoth into the Void.Mandos made a prophecy, that at the end of days, Morgoth would break out of the Void and assault Arda one last time and Tulkas would wrestle him and beat him.
awesomeshieldmaiden 1 year ago
@awesomeshieldmaiden Yes. Thank you for correcting me.But one thing remains.LIke Morgoth was a vala,Saruon a Maia,what were the lesser beings like Saruman,The barlogs (not sure the name of their race) etc etc.?
FBFTheRagingWarrior 1 year ago
@FBFTheRagingWarrior they were Maia also. The Istari (wizards) were 5 of the greater Maiar who were chosen by Manwe (King of the Valar) to aid the free peoples of Middle-earth to defeat Sauron. They were sent in the beginning of the 3rd age. . The balrogs are evil Maiar who have been corrupted by Morgoth\Sauron. If this doesn't make sense, look it up on Wikipedia or(re)read the Silmarillion,
supersmashtuezday 1 year ago
@supersmashtuezday No no, Not at all it all makes sense.Thanks.And yes i think i'll read it ,the Silmarillion is the first book followed by the Hobbit and LOTR right?
FBFTheRagingWarrior 1 year ago
@FBFTheRagingWarrior -morgoth is not the strongest vala,manwe is and there is a god higher than the valar,i don't remember his name though.He created the valar,elves and humans-read the silmarillan if you want to know more.
lopmch5 1 year ago
@lopmch5 Eru or Iluvatar (;
Damir8472 1 year ago
@Damir8472 Yea thats it,thanks,I haven't read the book in awhile.
lopmch5 1 year ago
@lopmch5 np, any time:)
Damir8472 1 year ago
@lopmch5 Melkor was in fact the strongest of all the Ainur, this is stated clearly in The Silmarilion. Once he turned to darkness and was called Morgoth by the elves Manwe was considered the most powerful of the remaining Valar.
landonthedrummer 1 year ago
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lopmch5 1 year ago
@landonthedrummer Your right i just went on wikipedia and looked it up.melkor is the strongest valar because he possesses all of iluvatars thoughts.however,tulkas is physically stronger and could beat morgoth in a fight which i believe he does in the book.
Manwe,his brother,is king of the valar.I think that's where i got confused.Also nothing is stated clearly in the silmarillion,it's a very hard read.
lopmch5 1 year ago
@lopmch5 melkor did not possess all of a iluvatars thoughts, he posess a bit of each of the valars power
LordAzanko 1 year ago
@lopmch5 Right on. The Silmarillion is a tough read that is true, but Iluvatar said himself that Melkor was the mightiest of the Ainur. "Then Iluvatar spoke, and he said: 'Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor;...'. Page 6 in the Silmarillion. Thats pretty clear, mate. :)
landonthedrummer 1 year ago
@landonthedrummer yea i know that now,i only read the book once and that was about a year ago.I'll probably give it another go.
lopmch5 1 year ago
@landonthedrummer
But Melkor was later banished from the order of Valar even through you are true, he was mightiest, but he wasted his power. I´ve read that Sauron later gained so much power that he got pretty close to Morgoth (in means of power) but I´m not sure about it...
And there is also one thing - there were more Ainur that haven´t descended into Arda, only 15 of them did and we know nothing about those except for they existed. Melkor was the most powerful from those in Arda :)
Fealiath 1 year ago
@Fealiath It is true that Sauron was very similar to Melkor in terms of his malice and hatred as time passed, and I know his power grew, but I do not know how powerful he was in relation to Melkor. I'll have to see if I can find some clarification on that because I am going to wonder about it until I do. I know there were many Ainur that didn't come to Arda but you can't honestly think that there was a more mighty Ainu than Melkor when Iluvatar said himself he was the mightiest.
landonthedrummer 1 year ago
@landonthedrummer We don´t know the powers of those Ainur which stayed out of Arda. They might be even more powerful than Morgoth, we have no way how to find the truth. I´m just saying that Morgoth was mightiest from those, who descended into Arda. Manwe was second to him in power, but he had better understandings of Eru´s thoughts and plans.
Fealiath 1 year ago
@Fealiath True, we do not know the full extent of the Ainur powers that stayed with Iluvatar. We do, however, know that Iluvatar called Melkor the mightiest of the Ainur when ALL of the Ainur were gathered to sing the Great Theme. Iluvatar called Melkor the mightiest BEFORE any Ainur departed for Arda. In fact, he called Melkor the mightiest before the Ainur even knew the grand scheme of Iluvatar's Theme. This is clearly stated in the first five pages of the Silmarillion.
landonthedrummer 1 year ago
@landonthedrummer I´ll have to check it when I get home from the university because I´m still uncertain about it. You know, I just think that if every Ainur sang in the Music then every Ainur should descend into Arda (because only those who helped to create Arda should be given powers to rule over its elements). I don´t know why, but I still regard Melkor only as the greatest of Valar not greatest of Ainur (because Valar were something like order - the very same pattern later used for Istari)
Fealiath 1 year ago
@landonthedrummer How can melkor be considered the greatest of the valar when he was the only valar that knew "Fear" plus he was bested and imprisoned. In the wrightings of Dagor dagorlath when he does break free he will be destroyed and the second song will be sung and it will be greater than the first and all who have fallen shall rise up and start anew.
georgeellas 10 months ago
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landonthedrummer 10 months ago
@georgeellas good lord, I thought this conversation was finally over. I'm tired of defending this. I mean honestly, how many times am I going to have to quote the book about this matter? To tell you the truth I don't really care what you think you know. If you are going to call J. R.R. Tolkien a liar about WHO HE SAID WAS THE MIGHTIEST then call up his son, Chris, and tell him. Better yet, why don't you resurrect him and feed him this garbage you're trying to feed me.
landonthedrummer 10 months ago
@pmlopmlop Just to let you know it's spelled Maiar and the correct grammar for that context would be Maia because it's singular. The plural of Maia is Maiar. And otherwise you're pretty much correct. just one fun fact: the Maiar were the lesser Ainur, the servants of the greater Ainur, The Valar. Sauron's original name was Mairon (the Admirable) and before his down fall, he served Aulë the Maker, who was the smith for the Valar and the creator of the dwarves.
awesomeshieldmaiden 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop
It is spelled Maiar. The singular is Maia.
9Nienor 1 year ago
@pmlopmlop
It is spelled Maiar. The singular is Maia.
It is not sure if Gandalf´s a Maia. He is one of the Istari, the wizards, but it is not sure if they´re Maiar (although it is believed...). And I would not say Gandalf is less powerfull ;)
9Nienor 1 year ago
@9Nienor They're Maiar, aye. Gandalf (or Olórin) is stated in the Silmarillion to be one of the more learned and noteworthy of the Maiair.
KingWill1st 1 year ago
no he's not a numenor king, we treated the numenorians as threat and so long devised their downfall, he let himself be brought to numenor and then told lies to the king to bring conflict in numenor and the elves and valars.
mauroranw 2 years ago
Yeah then he corrupts the numenorians save a few that sail away called the "Faithfull". Sauron manipulates the Numenorian king into attacking the undying lands and while doing so twists the people of numenor into worshiping him like a god with animal and eventually human sacrifice.
The Faithfull include Elendil and Isildur? Not sure if that's right or not. But anyway they leave Numenor and go to Middle Earth.
imrepohl 2 years ago
Yes Elendil was the King of the faithful and the Lord of the west of Numenor. His father went to warn the Angels about the Numenorean assault.
And no he twists the Numenoreans into worshiping Melkor.
pscucailin 2 years ago
Yes the faithful include Elendil and his sons. Amandil, father of Elendil, was the lord of Anduine; the house of the faithful who were descendants of Elros-Tar Minyatur but were not of the royal house.
LimesNorrlandicus 2 years ago
damn right music for this "storry"
patrikgabriel 2 years ago
numenor ist atlantis :)
painterger 2 years ago 3
Guys where u get all this stuff :(?
I want to know it :p
trummar13 2 years ago 3