Im not saying you are wrong I'm just saying I have to seek out my own soul salvation and allow God live through me how he will. I read his word and pray for understanding and I take what he gives me and go on.He works through us in different ways. Our relationship with him is different and beautiful in its own way. We all have our beliefs. It don't make em right. One thing is for sure if we live for God and we die in God we'll see him one day and we can ask him all we wish to know.
That is a good way to be. But it is not JESUS who said that women cannot be pastors or church leaders. It is men. So either people follow men, or Jesus. Can't really have it both ways.
But you seem to have a lovely presence and spirit of doing what is best in your understanding of God. God bless.
I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that I have to live and seek out my own soul salvation. I have to obey God under my own personal convictions from him and how I feel that he wishes to work through me not anyone else. Our personal relationships with him are different and beautiful in their own way.
I unsterstand what your saying about polygamy. But my point was the Bible doesn't mention women as pastors. It only speaks to the MEN who wish to become bishops and it goes on to tell them the qualifications. If its was okay for women to pastor I know God would have made certain for women to know their qualifications as well but there's nothing there which to me must mean God never intended for it to be. That's just I feel about it. God bless.
A lot of women claim to be called into Ministries by God. But sorry to tell you, but it's clearly in the bible. And God don't change. His words are his words. Any one tell you other wise is a damn lie. The Devil is very busy and he's deep off in the Church. Don't be fooled ladies. It's the Devil calling you. You preaching the word is going against God. Now you can speak to other women and children but not to men. Just my input on this.
We are living in the last days.God calls whom he desires to his ministry.people are dying every day.and they need the Lord's healing touch and saving grace.not enough men in the harvest fields ready for work.but there's a woman ready to answer the master call.to bring healing from God to her city and the nations.God is in control let's get in our place people! ladies there's no judgement in doing the Fathers will,when your in Christ Jesus.obey the Lord alright.enough said praise God!
I am a woman and I wont ever sit under a pastor, evangelist, Bishop, Reverend. Call em what you want it ain't of God. Pastor and deaconess??? You better go back to the word. HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE! Notice it says HUSBAND! Women aren't HUSBANDS. We r wives! God help us.
Note well. Husband of ONE WIFE! What an unusual way to make a statement. Why not just say, a man must be married to be an elder?
Instead, husband of ONE wife. That is because polygamy was ALIVE and WELL. Jesus outlawed polygamy by his declaration to not divorce. (unless for adultery - which is a huge topic unto itself).
Women were NOT allowed to practice polygamy, hence no need to say wife of ONE husband.
People skiff over "why bring up the NUMBER of wives at all?"
Either one LIVES the bible verbatim and in physical form just like JESUS and HIS followers did or even the OT, or they embrace that we have MODERN KNOWLEGE and way of life.
WOMEN birth babies andt men are NOT allowed to have many wives.
Good God, why do we have to EXPLAIN the hypocricy and contradictions?
God told MOSES "Thou Shalt not Kill". Then short books later, God is commanding MOSES to kill INNOCENT women and children and kidnapping the VIRGINS for the warriors?
You should not speak up in public and make sure you wear a burka, because that is what SOME MEN thought women should live like in biblical times. If you believe what you just wrote, then you should also be SILENT even on this yt board. Where is your husband to say YOU have NO authority to speak up about TEACHING others about the bible?
Can YOU live every single tenet of the bible, every scripture? NO.
One must discern what JESUS says ( Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) and listen to the HOLY SPIRIT for guideance. The OT is about ancient bronze age men, trying to figure out the distinction between God and nature. And they did a LOT of KILLING and PERSECUTING of people before they got it right.
The bible of the OT is no different than native folklore, trying to figure out nature vs spirit. The NT is enlightenment of JESUS.
all should listen to Pastor Tony Smith interpretation of women preachers shown on the right. It is replete with Bible verses illustrating the deception and falsehood of women preachers and the Bible's admonition of women preaching.
@truth1disciple he doesnt kno what he is talking about.!!! u should read the Whole book of 1st timothy and look at the word likewise and the greek meaning of woman
@packertrinity This reply is indicative of the rebellious, Jezebel spirit that is prevalent in the contemporary, apostate church. When the Bible commands NOT to be or do, the carnal, disobedient, ear tickled, church member(s), who seeks their own way of worship and following what they believe is God's ordinances, which is reality is the doctrines of demons depicted in 1 Timothy 4:1-2, they invent their own doctrine which adds and takes away God's commands, requirements, precepts. CARNALITY!!
@packertrinity Read KWhamm's statements at the bottom and again you will see apostate, carnal person you are those like the Pharisees who have a form of godliness but deny its power. When God's Word says (don't-do not for you of the rudimentary, carnal mindset) then we who obediently follow and obey His manual for godly living "DO" as commanded. You again are fighting God and be very, very careful, you will bring God's wrath and judgment on you and your family (i.e., King David's story&his kids
You dont have time for that because you would realize the more of a hypocrite you are lady. A fat person thinks hes ok til be looks in the mirror. You dont want to be obedient and try to twist scripture otherwise it would change your career and whole life style and you think of self more than obeying the word of God, hypocrite.
What does the Bible implicitly say about the issue of women leaders usurping authority of men in the church? But of course, the rebellious nature of contemporary church women will vehemently oppose this-watch the negative responses that will follow this post. It is called the JEZEBEL SPIRIT.
man read your bible and understand the statment paul made and why,if the women feel that god called them to preach,who am i god sent me to preach the word not to judge.they are our help mate let them help,they are not the head of man they are his help mate.whats the bis mess about,if you are a preacher then preach and stop the debateing.
@ThatOneChaChick Women cannot biblically be preachers! That position was reserved ONLY for MEN, unless you want to preach to other woman, that's fine. You are against God holy word if you preach to mixed congratation! When is the last time you read that Jesus picked a woman as a disciple or an apostle or a teacher? It's not in there! Women, stop disobeying Gods word and get right!
Do not let your pride & your flesh send you to hell.
The word of God says DON'T Then don't STOP LOOKING FOR A LOOPHOLE!
GOD does not change. There are no women pastors or Apostles in the word of the Most High & he will not change just for you. Please do not be of those he tells Depart from me,
I never knew you! Matthew 7:23 Peace to your hearts & Souls. Those who have an ear to hear!
Singing is not preaching. Preaching is not singing. There IS INDEED a difference. It is not hypocritical. Deception is in the church. I say this, where is it written in the Bible that a woman can preach? If the Bible is our source for God's word, find the commandment and/or the authority that God gave a woman to preach. Desire to want to do something is not authority. Ability does not equate to authority.
REVELATION 2:18-20 . when god spoke about thyatira it was in the OT. "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: Luke 17:26. 2 kings 9:22 , 1 corinth 11:3, eph 5:23, eph 5:24,1 tim 2:12, 1 corinth 14:36. when people look at rev 2:18-20 they get witchcraft as something else in their mind but it is rebellion! woman do not scriptureally teach 1 sam 15:23 and if your part of it, bad things will come rev 2:22-23. I was called to get rid of thyatira
@Tommylavallee14 Yes I know all these verses the church Thyatira allowed Jezebel to speak and rebukes them for it but not because it was a woman, it was because of the false doctrine she was teaching. 1Cor14:34-38 Paul rebukes the men of Corinth. 1 Timothy chapter 2 Paul deals with false doctrine being taught by the women of Ephesus. This is why Paul tells timothy not to let the women of Ephesus teach. The women were coming out of pagan worship to the godess Artemis. The letter is only to Ephsus
@Tommylavallee14 1Cor. 11:3 people always quote me this one, but lets read on in the chapter see what Paul says. Paul is dealing with coverings here so lets look v. 8-9 Paul speaks creation order woman being from man, woman made for man. Now lets look at v. 11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man IN THE LORD. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of GOD. Paul states equality here in JESUS. Gal 3:28
there are no women who authored any book in the Bible, the two books ruth and ester were named for women but not authored by women, no book in the Bible was written by a women, no old testament on going prophet who authored scripture was a women, no apostle of the 12 was a women, no elder in the church in the new testament was a women, elder meaning preacher, teacher, guider, etc..
@JusJuiceIt What does authoring a book in he bible have to do with the subject? Paul names a few women in Rom:16 who helped spread the gospel Phoebe who was a deacon and Junia an apostle. 1Timothy Paul actually tells Timothy not to let a woman of Ephesus teach. There is a reason for it though, (false doctrine) many women of the church came from pagan worship of Artemis. Paul comes against this doctrine tells the women they are deceived as Eve was. Paul was never against women only false doctrn
And do you know WHY no books of the bible were authored by women?
Because men KILLED women if they stepped out of line of what MEN deemed was appropriate.
Whereas, before the angry male, jealous god got on the scene, women WERE priestesses and honoured for their ability to bear the earths children.
The bible as written by ancient bronze age men over centuries and women were excluded as important, because MEN were jealous of women and subjucated women as less than.
For if ONLY the 12 apostles get to be church priests or leaders because he breathed only on them? then no other man or woman can be a priest or church leaders.
btw. Rm 16 Junia is outstanding amoung apostles. Phoebe is a deacon.
Mary Magdalene btw, was the FIRST preacher. Jesus gave her the position to be the first witness to his resurrection and HE TOLD her to GO WITNESS to the others.
She was an EYE witness and authorized by JESUS to preach the GOOD NEWS.
"And do you know WHY no books of the bible were authored by women?"
your answer was totally incorrect, its true that men didn't appreciate such a thing as a women teaching but they also got this thinking from God Himself.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."
No matter what brainwashing or indoctrination takes place - GOD did NOT write the bible. The bible was inspired. But not always can it be proved to be GOD inspired. For contradictions and KILLING exists where God already said THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
Why GOD would MIX up his order of creation severely from Gen 1 to 2. Then create a HUGE stork fable that men birth babies (the analogy in Gen 2 is that man brings forth life). Whereas we ALL KNOW women BIRTH the whole of the HUMAN population.
"Rm 16 Junia is outstanding amoung apostles. Phoebe is a deacon."
just because there were women of authority later one doesn't mean God willed it.. do you think it's God's will for joyce meyer to be doing what she's doing, not according to 1 Timothy and 1 corinthians.
"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says."
Wow, you said that 1 Tim gets that "thinking from God Himself".
Then in the next statement, God apparently states that women were early church leaders. Rm 16 and outstanding amoung apostles - but you DENY that part of the bible.
See, that is the confusion. You are telling ME I must follow Ancient bronze age cultural ideals of JEWISH and MIDDLE EASTERN peoples, but I am not allowed to follow the edicts that women WERE in authority as written in the BIBLE.
i wish i knew you had this thinking before i replied to you the first time.
"Contradictions exist in the bible."
there are no contradictions in the Bible, and yes you do have a bad interpretation of scripture, a very bad interpretation.. lol what makes you think you can interpret a book the right way if you think its flawed and full of contradiction to begin with.
2Tim
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"
Then God tells Moses to kill innocent women and children.
God created the universe and earth in a very specific order, which was beautiful. God created male and female in OUR image - the last of creation, and then rested.
But then in Gen 2 god all of a sudden has a different order of creation.
Gen Animals and creatures were created before HUMANS and male and female "they" are to rule over them.
@coolwater55 More misunderstanding. The woman, because of her punishment for like minded rebellion as this, houses and GOD GROWS the baby. The Life comes from THE CREATOR, thru the father, whose sperm swims. The egg of a woman is only made alive when the sperm finds the opening and enters in. Outside of that, it's a dead egg. Life is sent from the HEAVENLY FATHER thru the earthly father.
are you serious? you call yourself a Christian but yet you come and "try" to show me contradictions in the Bible, what foolishness! your not fooling anyone by saying your a believer in Christ and His follower.. go and ACTUALLY repent and trust in Jesus before the 2nd coming, caz no one with the Holy Spirit would talk the way you do.. you say women can have authority over men and teach them, i gave you 1 tim and 1 cor that say no, and all you have to say is the Bible contradicts.
i would love to show you how i disagreed with almost all of what you said, but im not going to simply because you believe God contradicted himself. if all scripture is Gods word, and you believe theres contradictions in that scripture, you have a very bad idea of what God is.
i invite you to what God is, repent and trust in Jesus alone.
Jesus said all can come to him and all are equal. Jesus spells things out quite clearly for all to read. By denying that quite a few of the scriptures do contradict in many places, means you are blinding yourself to parts of the bible which makes you appear uneducated. In turn this makes people NOT believe in Christ because if you were honest you could still see the writings in the bible for what they are while still honouring and worshiping CHRIST.
You can disagree with me all you want. I know that Jesus says all can come to him, and can share the good news, without restrictions.
Jesus never gives rules. He gives INVITATIONS. So, your word, invitation is a very good one. But you forgot it is JESUS who invites US to ask HIM into our lives and hearts. There are no conditions other than giving ones LIFE to HIM and repenting of harming others or our sins and turning from sin.
He also balked at the established Pharisees and uneducated, superstitious like behaviour of society in that time frame.
Jesus had NO heirarchy and made sure in his ministry that all were treated equal. Oh, but wait, he loved Mary M. and seemed to enjoy her company, now didn't he.
We can ONLY refer to the authority of what JESUS said in the end. We can access Jesus in places other than the bible too. For if one believes in Jesus, they know Jesus is everywhere and in everything.
What I mean by uneducated, again I refer to peoples ideas about afflictions about disabilities or poverty. The reigning thought was that they must have done something wrong or must stay in a low life position in that mode. Whereas, Jesus overturned those thoughts and said all are worthy of the Kingdom of God but ONLY by the saving GRACE of God. .
If YOU find something wrong with that interpretation, then discuss it. The rest of the bible has been debated till kingdom come.
@coolwater55 That is a damnable doctrine that has spread like wildfire and has caused many to fall asleep while still awake. It is a doctrine of pride and humanism. Put away your sins and search A LOT more diligently for THE TRUTH.... PLEASE.
"Mary Magdalene btw, was the FIRST preacher. Jesus gave her the position to be the first witness to his resurrection and HE TOLD her to GO WITNESS to the others."
ok, i really have trouble on why you brought up Magdalene as evidence for women to teach in some way. please quote me the verse in the Bible where it states Magdalene was the first preacher? on top of that, can you please read the verse for what it actually says, Mary was told to go and TELL the disciples that Jesus has
Please quote me the exact verse where Jesus says ONLY men can be preachers. According to the logic of some, Jesus breath on the 12 disciples makes them apostles. But JESUS does NOT say he has to BREATH personally on ALL MEN of the future, to give them authority to preach. The 72 that Jesus sent out? Where does it say they are men? Many experts conjecture that they were men and women. Acts has both MEN and WOMEN receiving the FIRST wave of the HOLY SPIRIT after Jesus ascension to heaven.
If that is the case that only the first 12 are true preachers because Jesus breathed on them personally, then NO man afterward can have authority unless Jesus does the exact same to them.
Whereas, the pentecost and subsequent long treatise of Paul to early Church leaders in Romans is being DISSED by many as evidence that women were amoung first preachers and leaders.
risen.. he didn't tell her to go and teach them anything, all she was to do, was give them the message that Jesus was alive.. thats it! once again, show me the Bible verse that says she was authorized by Jesus to preach among men?.. please dont shy away from the points iv brought up, respond to them directly.. and also id like to add, i dont have any problems with women preaching, UNLESS theres a man there and she takes authority over him, if a women teaches other women, thats fine
JESUS is the way, truth and life" Jn 14:6 I have repented and received the Holy Spirit -Jn, Rm Acts. Jesus says you can have eternal life. Jn 3:16
There is no special interpretation, those are FACTS that JESUS gives us.
That is SHARING the gospel.
If I TEACH about the gospel - to interpret to todays world, based on my right from JESUS infusing me with the HOLY SPIRIT, men cannot stop me because my AUTHORITY is JESUS and NOT Man. ;) God Bless.
But in doing so, I NEVER say I have or am the authority. I defer to the Holy Spirit and JESUS.
Whatever Jesus says in the bible, holds true. One can never go wrong if they stick soley to JESUS ministry in the 4 books in the bible. Or include the book of 1 and 2 John is good too.
It is when MEN say they are the authority over and above JESUS that is wrong.
My interpretation of the bible is just as good or even better than some. For I do not base it on my interpretation only.
and the reason i came to that conclusion is from the Bible.. but the Bible makes it very clear that once the women is put in authority of any man and tries to teach/preach God's word.. God says, NOT me, but God says, thats not acceptable.
go to the top of this page, on the right hand side where the other videos are shown, click the one thats named John Macarthur, please watch that video.
"Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned around and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17Jesus told her, “Don't hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
18 So Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” She ALSO TOLD them what he had said to her."
This implies that she tells them MORE than just the resurrection. She is by all definitions the FIRST PREACHER of the GOOD NEWS of the RISEN LORD!
Let us recap. Mary M is with Jesus throughout the majority of his ministry. She and her family support Jesus financially, emotionally and physically and spiritually. (Lazarus and Martha are her family).
Mary stays with Jesus to his crucifixion, and prepares his body (with help) and stands by the tomb. Note: the "apostles" ALL but John have abandoned Jesus at the Garden of Gesemene.
Only the women and John of the male and random others are at the crucifixion - ACCORDING to the BIBLE.
Jesus shows his RISEN SELF to her FIRST. She is the FIRST witness - of the gospel. Jesus very own words COMMISSIONING her to go TELL the others. That means she is the FIRST PREACHER!
I also bring up Mary M. because for some reason the CHURCH writers make her VANISH after this point in the bible.
But, funny thing - Nag Hammadi discovery of the "Lost gospels" prove that Mary was influencial in the early Church and that PETER was very jealous of Mary.
Etc. etc. There were lots of gospels to CHOOSE from.
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which IF they were written in detail, I suppose that even the WORLD itself would not contain the BOOKS that would be written."
PAUL or anon. authors in the NT, are NOT the authority. Only JESUS yesterday, today and tomorrow is the authority. And YOU men keep trying to quell those who KNOW better!
the Bible clearly teaches women can not be pastors, not to mention.. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and 1 Corinthians 14:33-35.. two verses that clearly say women can not teach!.. and if your saying to yourself, but that was how it was back then, women couldnt teach, its different now... umm no thats false, if that were true please give me the scripture to back it up, iv given you nothin but facts and Bible verses, all i want from you is one verse saying women JUST couldnt teach back then..
@JusJuiceIt It's not enough to know what the bible says you also need to know why it's said. 1Cor. 14:33-38 Paul is rebuking the men. Look at the end of 34 it says as also says the law, where in the law is it quoted for women to keep silence or be under obedience? If it's not in the first five books (the law) then what law is he speaking? In 36 he questions 34-35 he starts with WHAT? came the word of GOD out from you or came it unto you only? He's talking to the men v37 If any MAN.
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).
@mtlindale to be in silence. do you want more verses why women shouldnt teach? they werent meant to. its not sexism its just not for them. woman are just supposed to tell their revelations to their husbands
@Tommylavallee14 How do they explain a saved person who came up under a woman pastor and all their life lived a Holy, sanctified, holy ghost filled life. Is God not pleased with that woman pastor who lead his sheep in the right way? Don't run from this question. Answer it.
We can not save no one. You may be drawn to God & go to a ministry under a woman. But God expects us to grow. And he will show you that it is not his way he is never going to change just because you say so. All those women are LIARS.
Christ is not above using them to get what he need to his people. He said he will still tell them that healed the sick cast out demons & did many wonderful works in his name.
@KWhamm You said "Christ is not above using them to get what he need to his people" So you are saying that Christ is just pimping them? Thats what it sounds like to me. Are you saying Jesus s a pimp?
@higherground2050 No that was not it at all. Christ said; Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7
So as you can see it is not sinners prophesying, casting out demons,doing many wonderful works. These are church folks men & women. And they will still be told DEPART FROM ME!
@KWhamm am pastor garrett if you are a preacher let the women be they are our help mate,not for us to debate,to the women if you say god told you to preach then preach and stay out of the debates,step aside and let god do his job
@ThatOneChaChick YOU ARE DECEIVED IF YOU THINK THAT THE ONLY WAY A WOMAN CAN HELP IS TO PREACH. Many will lead others to Christ & them themselves become a castaway! For you cannot pick & choose what to follow. You only bring problems Abraham & Sarah, God does not need your help. To be a willing vessel is to be obedience. Not just follow what we want to follow. God sees that to & many will bust hell wide open thinking that they can walk in disobedience & still walk into Glory.
@ThatOneChaChick If God says women must not userp authority over a man or take the place of a man, that woman is disobeying God word. Sure, if she is called, then so be it, but then let her only preach and teach to other women. Teaching class is one thing, but going before the congragation of men and woman and screaching the word? That is WRONG!
No god did not call man or woman to preach, but he called a willing vessel to put his spirit in, so he the(Holy Ghost) can preach, so every time i get a chance i am going to preach every demon back to the pits of hell..
@mtlindale no false doctrine it's Gods word and women are doing God a favor be preaching and leading people to him he said no and that settles it for me.
@brocklightning God never told women not to preach anyone qualified may preach. It is man that tells women not to preach because they misunderstand what Paul wrote. Paul was never against women only false doctrine.
@mtlindale Paul preached Jesus Christ and it really has nothing to do with qualification It has do with I timothy 2: 11-12 and 13-14 it was not man that made it this way it was Eve, Some men are very legalistic and they try to put women down threw this scripture but that is not Gods way. He took the right away because of Eve. a woman is to be your queen and be adored and honored but part of eve's punishment was no more co equal
@brocklightning When Paul speaks of the order of creation and Eve being decieved he was speaking against the false doctrine of the women that came out of the temple of Artemis they believed Eve came first and all life came from her, Paul corrects them by stating the order of creation. Then he says Eve was decieved and in transgression, he was telling the women of Ephesus they were decieved in thier false doctrine of Artemis and in transgression. Study the history of Ephesus and temple of Artemis
@brocklightning Paul was never against women preaching. In 1cor. 14 where people always assume Paul is telling women to be in silence, he is actually rebuking the men for trying to keep women silent. In Timothy he tells the women not to teach because of false doctrine coming from them. Telling women they cannot preach is false doctrine it's not about male or female but wheather or not JESUS is speaking through them.
God doesn't need NO HELP, what the hell did he go through all that trouble to leave his word for us to choose to disobey it & help him? If U really want to help someone help yourself, repent, & line up with what the word says. Anything else is a problem.If you think that God wasn't right there when you conceived to disobey you are more lost that you can possibly realize
For I promise you, GOD SAID WHAT HE MEANT. AND MEANT EVERY DOT & TITTLE OF WHAT HE SAID.
@KWhamm you miss understood who could do God a favor really brother? I challenge anyone to show me were God ordained a woman to preach it's just that simple people on this page going with their interpretations and what they pastor said and what bishop so and so said all that show me what God said and get of that 99.9% I stand on 100% people going back and forth on this page just show were God ordain it
@brocklightning AMEN BROTHER! I agree 100%. As I tell everyone I meet that thinks its ok for women to preach and teach in church. Did Jesus call men to follow him and be desciples and apostles or did he call women? If he called women, show me where? You can't! Jesus called only MEN to preach and teach. Women are allowed to do so, but only to other women, NOT in mixed congragations! That is Bible! Eve sined against God and now he's going to give them permision to preach? Not so!
And Adam did eat of the fruit also so he did not stay with the word either!! It's annoying how people seem to forget that he ate it also!! He could have said no BUT HE DIDN'T !!
@brocklightning So women are able to tell others the goodness of Jesus and help them get to Jesus but can only do it during testimony service and outside of church ?!!
William Branham breaks it down in (Marriage and Divorce) Eve dropped the ball she did not stay with the word as a result no more co equal. besides that were does God Ordain women preachers? let not argue over what we think what did God say people need to stop mixing Gods word with man made ideas and stay with he said 100% not 99.9 100% lets get back to the Bible and stop guessing
@beeboi1969 who? Lilith come on really God word is perfect we both know that he never ordain women to preach. Women take it as a sexest thing but is Gods word it's in the Bible and when they dispute it I deny Gods word and what true servents would do that?
Reading some of these comments are just ignorent!! God has not said anything about not letting women preach!! And if God has called them to preach they are to obey God. God has called all soilders to create his kingdom. Im glad to see that the Women are doing what God has called them to do becuase the people that commented that women have no right to preach have NO heaven nor hell to put them in.
Women are outta line when they preach. This isn`t a proclaimation coming from man, but it`s the word of God. And for the people who are for women preaching, debate and argue this fact, they`re debating and arguing against Gods word. When a women rejects Gods word and preaches anyway, she`s actually rebelling against God, and calling God a liar. Satan has called women preachers to the pulpit in the final days of life as we know it, just to weaking the church. This way he can put the A.C in place.
ok like in every situation God used a man to lead his people the 12 desciples were all man they all lead he did not use a women to be a disciple and he did not use a women to lead if you notice God used only men to lead and men were created first then women
i believe women shouldnt be able to preach because first of all God does things in order for example in a family house hold men or on top yes men and women are equal but men are the head of the house hold.... and men have the last word yes they talk about it as partners but man has the last word and also God chose man as the head
I try not to debate God's word, because it's not to be debated. All I can do is present to you the understanding that God has given me. If you don't agree, so be it. I don't have to challenge whether or not you read the bible to make a point. The words coming out of your own mouth will condemn you. So I point you to "Philippians 3:19 - Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.."
"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?" (I Cor. 14:34-36, NASB) Case closed!
Romans 16 and Jesus say otherwise! Paul is NOT Jesus btw. Case is NOT closed. It is wide open. And men no longer get the say or the exclusive rights to "interpretation" of what JESUS mandated.
@coolwater55 So the Spirit of Christ speaking through Paul has to be degraded in order for you to come to grips with the issue. This proves theologian Wayne Grudem right when he states that female pastors are a foot in the door of the church for a non-Christian liberal interpretation of scripture. Given the arguments for female pastors female pastors have to logicall accept homosexuals as ministers as well. Their arguments are the same exact arguments.
side note: highly esteemed biblical scholars from all walks - have determined that Paul probably only authored 7 of the epistles.
Books of Tim, Titus, and Ephesians are almost 100% NOT authored by Paul.
AND...The early Church - those knowledgeable/full of the Holy Spirit were to lead others to CHRIST and the truth. They did NOT have a bible btw for centuries. So how can the bible be the ultimate authority? IT cannot, it is ONLY a guide. Jesus and the HOLY SPIRIT are the authority.
@coolwater55 I suggest you read to books to help you become educated on these issues. A General Introduction to the Bible by Norman Geisler and The Canon of Scripture by FF Bruce.
I suggest you read a wider range of books to help YOU understand the HISTORY of the bible and to understand what JESUS actually SAYS and DOES in the bible.
Always keep in mind. There was NO bible as exists when Jesus walked the earth. And one really does NOT need a bible to be SAVED.
It might aid at times, but, you men seem to forget that Jesus does NOT live between a book cover. Jesus lives everywhere and works in ways neither you or I can know many times.
@coolwater55 I have two degrees in Biblical studies and I have taught at a Bible college. You are incorrect about the Bible and that is dangerous. God has spoken through His prophets and Apostles and you reject them. You cannot know Jesus Christ and have another Gospel than what Paul taught. Claim to believe in Christ, yet not the book that reveals Christ to you is a game. You simply choose to not honor the majority of the New Test as the Word of God.
2. Did Moses tell his men to kidnap virgins and keep them for themselves?
3. Did other men in the OT have innocent women and children killed. Or raped. Because stealing women from other tribes and forcing them into marriage is rape.
4. Did white people justify slavery according to the bible?
5. Did men go to war or cause other to be killed or kill to force people into Christianity?
6. The bible is a DANGEROUS book if not handled well.
You have two degrees in biblical studies. Good for you. Did you learn about the history of the bible too? Or did you learn in a biased atmosphere?
It is neither here nor there in the end. It is fine to know what the bible says. It is MORE Important to know what JESUS tells us and says.
Some scripture can aid, but most scripture does not aid. Considering over 800,000 words in scripture and much of the OT is extremley violent, we would know that Jesus way is best.
@coolwater55 It is Jesus who taught that the Old Testament is God's Word. You merely using the word "Jesus" and stuffing it will your own presuppositions. You say you follow Jesus, but reject His view of the Bible. You don't follow Jesus.
@coolwater55 At the end of the day you do not have Jesus' view of the Bible. You likely disagree. What do you think Jesus' view of scripture is? I know what it is , but what do you think it is?
There is some great literature in the bible and some great sayings from Jesus.
But.. the problem: Some men treat their wives like children, do not allow them to work or drive. etc. their version of "submissive". Some men justified slavery according to parts of the bible. ie. Ephesians. Yes, that pesky problem - did Paul write it OR? who?
The bible can be a guide in some ways, but other ways not. So that is a caution to everyone. Some abuse scripture and some worship the bible.
There is some great literature in the bible and some great sayings from Jesus.
But.. the problem: Some men treat their wives like children, do not allow them to work or drive. etc. their version of "submissive". Some men justified slavery according to parts of the bible. ie. Ephesians. Yes, that pesky problem - did Paul write it OR? who?
The bible can be a guide in some ways, but other ways not. So that is a caution to everyone. Some abuse scripture and some worship the bible.
Scripture is a guide in some ways, but it is NO longer apt in some ways today. Just some parts, mostly where Jesus is alive and Jesus sayings.
Can't take the bible literally or else one would be raping virgins and paying off fathers 50 shekels to protect the FATHERS pride. Or start killing people for eating pork or shellfish. Or stoning adulterers. etc.
What bothers those who debate with me or those like us is that we don't follow YOUR way, we choose to skip directly to CHRIST'S WAY.
Are you the judge of of my soul because I don't see things your way or follow your doctrine? I say I follow JESUS and that is not good enough for you? Your ego getting in the way or you did not read all my comments.
30,000 different doctrines and dogma - all from the SAME bible. Men still can't agree. And Majority of those male leaders in churches are very WELL read in bible and studies. Yet they disagree on small and big things from the SAME bible.
You are out of line discrediting my faith level with Christ. However, I am not discrediting the bible nor you. I am putting the BIBLE in perspective with its position compared to the POWER of CHRIST. I don't AGREE with you, but that does not give me the right or power to see into your soul. JESUS tells us instantly if we believe in HIM and understand what LOVE means.
I leave this discussion now. You do as you will. I do as I will - in the name of CHRIST.
@coolwater55 Strange the Bible does nothing but reveal Jesus, yet you say it does not reveal Jesus. The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible and yet you claim the HOly Spirit is the one who revealed Jesus to you. Jesus saves yes, but without the Bible you would not know that Jesus is God's means of salvation. This is non-sense...it is like saying you follow your father, but words He says. Jesus is saves and the Bible is God's authoritative revelation of the Good News.
Men wrote the bible. Period. Otherwise there would be no errors or contradictions. It would all make total sense, instantly and there would be nothing to debate to this day.
Men felt inspired when they wrote. But choosing which books were inspired is another story as we all know.
Not one iota of the law will disappear? until everything is accomplished. What did Jesus mean by this?
Things will change when he dies and is resurrected.
@coolwater55 You did not get the content of the resurrrection from an existential experience but from what God has spoken. Even if you didn't read it yourself it is grounded in the absolute rational and knowable written revelation of God's Word. In Short, Jesus, The Apostles, and the Early Church Fathers ALL viewed the entire Old Test and the writings of the Apostles as God's Word. You do not hold this view and therefore it is reasonable to consider you view nonChristian.
As far as my believing in the resurrection? I have had visions of Jesus and Mary, so perhaps that happens regardless of what one reads.
Jesus also did NOT have a NT.
Jesus is omnipresent and can work just fine without one written word if that is how Jesus wishes to work in people. And many people come to Jesus that way.
People never having read one word in the bible have turned their lives to Christ. The bible can guide at times, but the bible is NOT what saves people. Jesus does.
My dearth of literature that is NOT liberal but informative proves you wrong.
And do not forget Jesus was a rebel and did NOT ascribe the the pharisees or those who are worried about the letter of the law versus the spiritual laws.
The spiritual laws - 1 John 4.
Matthew 22 and 25 and so it goes. I know the bible REALLY well.
People can read for themsselves and know what the bible REALLY says. Always rely on what Jesus says and one cannot go wrong.
@coolwater55 Liberal scholars you mean and that proves my point. Thank you for proving my point that female pastorate is not biblical. You just showed everyone that you reject the Bible to accept female pastors. You literally have to abandon parts of the Bible to hold your position. Your free to do that, but lets me honest here. The ones holding to male only pastorate are also the ones holding to a Christian view of the Bible. thank you for making my case.
@coolwater55 It does not reason well for your position that you use as your argument that you think there is a separation of authority between part of the Bible written by Paul and other parts of the Bible. Is this the type of interpretation of scripture that one should expect from female pastors? If so, even if they are a man they have no business pastoring with such a non-Christian interpretation of scripture.
I read the bible CLEARLY. But no one can live ALL scripture literally. ONE MUST glean what CHRIST asks of us.
History is replete with SHAMEFUL exploitations or horrible mistranslations of the bible and forcing people to live the way MEN want and not the way CHRIST wants.
Following the BIBLE the way YOU want others to - does not equal unchristian.
Christ's LAWS are LOVE and SERVICE.
We have every right to question and study scripture!
@coolwater55 You do reject the Bible, but not Christ. That is strange. Jesus says "It is written" to confront Satan and your telling me "It is not written". I don't question you on your interpretation of God's Word, but on your rejection of the Bible as God's Word. See when I read Paul I am reading the Word of God. You claim it is not the Word of God. Your repeating the same lie as Satan in the garden. "THY WORD IS TRUTH"
@coolwater55 If you reject the testamony of Christ from His Apostles you reject Him. They are called by Him for this purpose. I will trust them and not you 2000 years after the fact.
@coolwater55 "Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness," (2 Peter 3:15-17) Peter warns about you
"18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
19 We love because he first loved us."
Intimidation or insults and slams do not scare me. Saying I am aligned with Satan is a slam against what JESUS stands for.
We can use the bible as a GUIDE. But we do NOT worship a bible. We worship CHRIST.
@coolwater55 Yes Paul did walk with Jesus. Jesus meet Paul after His resurrection and called Paul to be an Apostle to the gentiles. Paul did not call for every one to be celibate. Do not lie about Pauls writings.
2. Paul does recommend celibacy over marriage. Admonitions that say if a person cannot help themselves, it is better to marry. But 1 Cor 7 is all about recommending celibacy over and above marriage. I never said that Paul called for "everyone" to be celibate.
@coolwater55 Also, I want to ask you if you believe in the physical bodiliy resurrection of Jesus Christ from the same corps that was dead in the tomb?
Now the scriptures are nothing but a knockout punch in the face of female preachers, but in my experience most women pastors are angry and using the pastorate a a type of self psychotheropy to flesh out some angust against males. Now having said that, if Bynum or White were men I would still think they have no business preaching their errors are huge.
All serious theologians know that women are stricked from being pastors in the Bible. Theses theologians just don't bring it up much these days. I was glad to play a part in a female pastor stepping down. I asked her, "What do you do when your husband/co-pastor directs you the opposite way of what you feel is God's will for your church." She said, "We do what I say, because I am the one who hears from God." I said, "Your attitude is sin and you should step down". She did in a month.
@mikemillion2000 Then you did not read all of your bible. You also did not take note that Phoebe is a deacon, Junia is an apostle, and NO where does JESUS say women cannot be preachers. NO WHERE.
In addition, 1 - 2 Tim, Titus, Ephesians are not written by Paul.
And remember well. PAUL is NOT JESUS.
Women in ministry is a BIBLICAL thing RM 16, Acts 21 and Mary M as first preacher. Women are in ministries today.
It is done. And JESUS condones it, so it is NOT a worldly thing.
Im not saying you are wrong I'm just saying I have to seek out my own soul salvation and allow God live through me how he will. I read his word and pray for understanding and I take what he gives me and go on.He works through us in different ways. Our relationship with him is different and beautiful in its own way. We all have our beliefs. It don't make em right. One thing is for sure if we live for God and we die in God we'll see him one day and we can ask him all we wish to know.
claressa98 3 days ago
@claressa98
That is a good way to be. But it is not JESUS who said that women cannot be pastors or church leaders. It is men. So either people follow men, or Jesus. Can't really have it both ways.
But you seem to have a lovely presence and spirit of doing what is best in your understanding of God. God bless.
coolwater55 3 days ago
I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that I have to live and seek out my own soul salvation. I have to obey God under my own personal convictions from him and how I feel that he wishes to work through me not anyone else. Our personal relationships with him are different and beautiful in their own way.
claressa98 3 days ago
@coolwater55
I unsterstand what your saying about polygamy. But my point was the Bible doesn't mention women as pastors. It only speaks to the MEN who wish to become bishops and it goes on to tell them the qualifications. If its was okay for women to pastor I know God would have made certain for women to know their qualifications as well but there's nothing there which to me must mean God never intended for it to be. That's just I feel about it. God bless.
claressa98 3 days ago
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A lot of women claim to be called into Ministries by God. But sorry to tell you, but it's clearly in the bible. And God don't change. His words are his words. Any one tell you other wise is a damn lie. The Devil is very busy and he's deep off in the Church. Don't be fooled ladies. It's the Devil calling you. You preaching the word is going against God. Now you can speak to other women and children but not to men. Just my input on this.
PlayaJay32 5 days ago
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We are living in the last days.God calls whom he desires to his ministry.people are dying every day.and they need the Lord's healing touch and saving grace.not enough men in the harvest fields ready for work.but there's a woman ready to answer the master call.to bring healing from God to her city and the nations.God is in control let's get in our place people! ladies there's no judgement in doing the Fathers will,when your in Christ Jesus.obey the Lord alright.enough said praise God!
LADYORGANIC 1 month ago
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LADYORGANIC 1 month ago
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The end of the world march 2012 The Feast of Purim Christ will avenge his elect the bride of Christ
itsovermarch2012 1 month ago
I am a woman and I wont ever sit under a pastor, evangelist, Bishop, Reverend. Call em what you want it ain't of God. Pastor and deaconess??? You better go back to the word. HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE! Notice it says HUSBAND! Women aren't HUSBANDS. We r wives! God help us.
claressa98 1 month ago 2
@claressa98
Note well. Husband of ONE WIFE! What an unusual way to make a statement. Why not just say, a man must be married to be an elder?
Instead, husband of ONE wife. That is because polygamy was ALIVE and WELL. Jesus outlawed polygamy by his declaration to not divorce. (unless for adultery - which is a huge topic unto itself).
Women were NOT allowed to practice polygamy, hence no need to say wife of ONE husband.
People skiff over "why bring up the NUMBER of wives at all?"
coolwater55 3 days ago
@claressa98
Funny too how men would like women to live as pre dark ages. Classical greek roman age, which was barely livable to todays standards.
The ancient cultural ideals of MEN and their concept of a womans role does NOT apply today.
Even at that - JESUS NEVER once made any statement that RESTRICTS women in society.
So do you believe in JESUS or ancient male culture ideas.
Are we to wash clothes in the river - not eat pork or shellfish, men let their hair grow like rabbis?
coolwater55 3 days ago
Either one LIVES the bible verbatim and in physical form just like JESUS and HIS followers did or even the OT, or they embrace that we have MODERN KNOWLEGE and way of life.
WOMEN birth babies andt men are NOT allowed to have many wives.
Good God, why do we have to EXPLAIN the hypocricy and contradictions?
God told MOSES "Thou Shalt not Kill". Then short books later, God is commanding MOSES to kill INNOCENT women and children and kidnapping the VIRGINS for the warriors?
coolwater55 3 days ago
Modern knowledge that WOMEN are equal in worth and INTELLIGENCE to men.
And that women HAVE equal RIGHTS to men on earth.
Do YOU embrace modern technology and eat pork and shellfish? God says KILL people who eat those foods.
Rm 16 declares women are CHURCH leaders and short books later, some random author is quelling womens rights again?
Subjucating women is WRONG and JESUS never once says any such thing.
So, time to WAKE up and hear what JESUS says.
coolwater55 3 days ago
You should not speak up in public and make sure you wear a burka, because that is what SOME MEN thought women should live like in biblical times. If you believe what you just wrote, then you should also be SILENT even on this yt board. Where is your husband to say YOU have NO authority to speak up about TEACHING others about the bible?
Can YOU live every single tenet of the bible, every scripture? NO.
coolwater55 3 days ago
One must discern what JESUS says ( Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) and listen to the HOLY SPIRIT for guideance. The OT is about ancient bronze age men, trying to figure out the distinction between God and nature. And they did a LOT of KILLING and PERSECUTING of people before they got it right.
The bible of the OT is no different than native folklore, trying to figure out nature vs spirit. The NT is enlightenment of JESUS.
n.b. Jesus did NOT have a "bible". ;) God Bless.
coolwater55 3 days ago
John Spong terriable texts of the bible--check out that youtube video
cherylwoodcock1 1 month ago
Does anyone else notice that black women seem to be the dominant race promoting this 'movement'? Wonder why? BTW, I'm black].
alchemistickolaj 1 month ago
all should listen to Pastor Tony Smith interpretation of women preachers shown on the right. It is replete with Bible verses illustrating the deception and falsehood of women preachers and the Bible's admonition of women preaching.
truth1disciple 2 months ago
@truth1disciple he doesnt kno what he is talking about.!!! u should read the Whole book of 1st timothy and look at the word likewise and the greek meaning of woman
packertrinity 2 months ago
@packertrinity This reply is indicative of the rebellious, Jezebel spirit that is prevalent in the contemporary, apostate church. When the Bible commands NOT to be or do, the carnal, disobedient, ear tickled, church member(s), who seeks their own way of worship and following what they believe is God's ordinances, which is reality is the doctrines of demons depicted in 1 Timothy 4:1-2, they invent their own doctrine which adds and takes away God's commands, requirements, precepts. CARNALITY!!
truth1disciple 2 months ago
@packertrinity Read KWhamm's statements at the bottom and again you will see apostate, carnal person you are those like the Pharisees who have a form of godliness but deny its power. When God's Word says (don't-do not for you of the rudimentary, carnal mindset) then we who obediently follow and obey His manual for godly living "DO" as commanded. You again are fighting God and be very, very careful, you will bring God's wrath and judgment on you and your family (i.e., King David's story&his kids
truth1disciple 2 months ago
You dont have time for that because you would realize the more of a hypocrite you are lady. A fat person thinks hes ok til be looks in the mirror. You dont want to be obedient and try to twist scripture otherwise it would change your career and whole life style and you think of self more than obeying the word of God, hypocrite.
SuperGolfing1 2 months ago
What does the Bible implicitly say about the issue of women leaders usurping authority of men in the church? But of course, the rebellious nature of contemporary church women will vehemently oppose this-watch the negative responses that will follow this post. It is called the JEZEBEL SPIRIT.
truth1disciple 2 months ago
@truth1disciple
I gave it a thumbs up....
cboneofenglewood 2 months ago
Women pastors are a joke
BiGMANJOE32 2 months ago
man read your bible and understand the statment paul made and why,if the women feel that god called them to preach,who am i god sent me to preach the word not to judge.they are our help mate let them help,they are not the head of man they are his help mate.whats the bis mess about,if you are a preacher then preach and stop the debateing.
ThatOneChaChick 3 months ago
@ThatOneChaChick Women cannot biblically be preachers! That position was reserved ONLY for MEN, unless you want to preach to other woman, that's fine. You are against God holy word if you preach to mixed congratation! When is the last time you read that Jesus picked a woman as a disciple or an apostle or a teacher? It's not in there! Women, stop disobeying Gods word and get right!
sirhood2 1 month ago
PLEASE MY SISTERS IN CHRIST!
Do not let your pride & your flesh send you to hell.
The word of God says DON'T Then don't STOP LOOKING FOR A LOOPHOLE!
GOD does not change. There are no women pastors or Apostles in the word of the Most High & he will not change just for you. Please do not be of those he tells Depart from me,
I never knew you! Matthew 7:23 Peace to your hearts & Souls. Those who have an ear to hear!
KWhamm 3 months ago
Compare women being disobedient to preaching with the video called "What Women Want is Worship".
vincent15641 3 months ago
Singing is not preaching. Preaching is not singing. There IS INDEED a difference. It is not hypocritical. Deception is in the church. I say this, where is it written in the Bible that a woman can preach? If the Bible is our source for God's word, find the commandment and/or the authority that God gave a woman to preach. Desire to want to do something is not authority. Ability does not equate to authority.
pocu2005 3 months ago
Amen Sistas preach it!!!!!
Hizwilbdun 3 months ago
THIS A BULLDAGGER SPIRIT AND THESE WOMEN AND MEN WHO CONDONE ALL GOING TO HELL IF THEY DON'T REPENT
REVHOUSTON34 4 months ago
REVELATION 2:18-20 . when god spoke about thyatira it was in the OT. "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: Luke 17:26. 2 kings 9:22 , 1 corinth 11:3, eph 5:23, eph 5:24,1 tim 2:12, 1 corinth 14:36. when people look at rev 2:18-20 they get witchcraft as something else in their mind but it is rebellion! woman do not scriptureally teach 1 sam 15:23 and if your part of it, bad things will come rev 2:22-23. I was called to get rid of thyatira
Tommylavallee14 5 months ago
@Tommylavallee14 Yes I know all these verses the church Thyatira allowed Jezebel to speak and rebukes them for it but not because it was a woman, it was because of the false doctrine she was teaching. 1Cor14:34-38 Paul rebukes the men of Corinth. 1 Timothy chapter 2 Paul deals with false doctrine being taught by the women of Ephesus. This is why Paul tells timothy not to let the women of Ephesus teach. The women were coming out of pagan worship to the godess Artemis. The letter is only to Ephsus
mtlindale 5 months ago
@Tommylavallee14 1Cor. 11:3 people always quote me this one, but lets read on in the chapter see what Paul says. Paul is dealing with coverings here so lets look v. 8-9 Paul speaks creation order woman being from man, woman made for man. Now lets look at v. 11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man IN THE LORD. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of GOD. Paul states equality here in JESUS. Gal 3:28
mtlindale 5 months ago
@mtlindale
there are no women who authored any book in the Bible, the two books ruth and ester were named for women but not authored by women, no book in the Bible was written by a women, no old testament on going prophet who authored scripture was a women, no apostle of the 12 was a women, no elder in the church in the new testament was a women, elder meaning preacher, teacher, guider, etc..
JusJuiceIt 4 months ago 6
@JusJuiceIt What does authoring a book in he bible have to do with the subject? Paul names a few women in Rom:16 who helped spread the gospel Phoebe who was a deacon and Junia an apostle. 1Timothy Paul actually tells Timothy not to let a woman of Ephesus teach. There is a reason for it though, (false doctrine) many women of the church came from pagan worship of Artemis. Paul comes against this doctrine tells the women they are deceived as Eve was. Paul was never against women only false doctrn
mtlindale 4 months ago
@JusJuiceIt
And do you know WHY no books of the bible were authored by women?
Because men KILLED women if they stepped out of line of what MEN deemed was appropriate.
Whereas, before the angry male, jealous god got on the scene, women WERE priestesses and honoured for their ability to bear the earths children.
The bible as written by ancient bronze age men over centuries and women were excluded as important, because MEN were jealous of women and subjucated women as less than.
coolwater55 5 days ago
@JusJuiceIt
For if ONLY the 12 apostles get to be church priests or leaders because he breathed only on them? then no other man or woman can be a priest or church leaders.
btw. Rm 16 Junia is outstanding amoung apostles. Phoebe is a deacon.
Mary Magdalene btw, was the FIRST preacher. Jesus gave her the position to be the first witness to his resurrection and HE TOLD her to GO WITNESS to the others.
She was an EYE witness and authorized by JESUS to preach the GOOD NEWS.
coolwater55 5 days ago
@coolwater55
ok, lets go through your comment.
"And do you know WHY no books of the bible were authored by women?"
your answer was totally incorrect, its true that men didn't appreciate such a thing as a women teaching but they also got this thinking from God Himself.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."
1 Timothy 2:12
please respond directly to that verse, id really like to see what you have to say about the word of God that very clearly
JusJuiceIt 4 days ago
@JusJuiceIt
1 Tim 2 (both books of Tim) were not authored by Paul (highly unlikely according to experts in biblical scriptures).
Who does not permit a woman to have authority? an anonymous man, who has his book interjected into the scriptures? Is that random person, JESUS?
Who wrote that book? is there an agenda or a cultural bias? Is this what JESUS taught? NO. Jesus said NO such thing.
coolwater55 3 days ago
No matter what brainwashing or indoctrination takes place - GOD did NOT write the bible. The bible was inspired. But not always can it be proved to be GOD inspired. For contradictions and KILLING exists where God already said THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
Why GOD would MIX up his order of creation severely from Gen 1 to 2. Then create a HUGE stork fable that men birth babies (the analogy in Gen 2 is that man brings forth life). Whereas we ALL KNOW women BIRTH the whole of the HUMAN population.
coolwater55 3 days ago
@coolwater55
states, women can't teach in the presence of men.
in reply to your second comment.
"Rm 16 Junia is outstanding amoung apostles. Phoebe is a deacon."
just because there were women of authority later one doesn't mean God willed it.. do you think it's God's will for joyce meyer to be doing what she's doing, not according to 1 Timothy and 1 corinthians.
"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says."
JusJuiceIt 4 days ago
@JusJuiceIt
Wow, you said that 1 Tim gets that "thinking from God Himself".
Then in the next statement, God apparently states that women were early church leaders. Rm 16 and outstanding amoung apostles - but you DENY that part of the bible.
See, that is the confusion. You are telling ME I must follow Ancient bronze age cultural ideals of JEWISH and MIDDLE EASTERN peoples, but I am not allowed to follow the edicts that women WERE in authority as written in the BIBLE.
coolwater55 3 days ago
Did GOD inspire Romans 16? I believe MEN wrote the bible.
You choose scriptures that suit your agenda. Tim, Titus, Ephesians, and Colossians are all considered by experts that they are NOT authored by Paul.
Contradictions exist in the bible. (which makes sense from ancient bronze age thoughts over thousands of years of writings).
See, we also pick and choose what we know makes sense according to what JESUS Said and wants.
Jesus never made any commands to restrict women.
coolwater55 3 days ago
@coolwater55
i wish i knew you had this thinking before i replied to you the first time.
"Contradictions exist in the bible."
there are no contradictions in the Bible, and yes you do have a bad interpretation of scripture, a very bad interpretation.. lol what makes you think you can interpret a book the right way if you think its flawed and full of contradiction to begin with.
2Tim
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"
JusJuiceIt 3 days ago
@JusJuiceIt
God says "thou shalt not kill"
Then God tells Moses to kill innocent women and children.
God created the universe and earth in a very specific order, which was beautiful. God created male and female in OUR image - the last of creation, and then rested.
But then in Gen 2 god all of a sudden has a different order of creation.
Gen Animals and creatures were created before HUMANS and male and female "they" are to rule over them.
coolwater55 3 days ago
Gen 2 adam is lonely, then animals are formed? then a woman out of a mans rib? hmmm, that is a MASSIVE contradiction to the first creation story.
And we all KNOW where babies come from, a woman, a WOMB - an. Man comes FROM woman. Not the other way around. No man has ever birthed a baby.
Gal 3:28 all are equal. 1 Tim, or Cor, subjucation of women occurs.
Jesus btw, NEVER restricts women.
You think we are stupid? I read the bible through and through, I know what it says.
coolwater55 3 days ago
@coolwater55 More misunderstanding. The woman, because of her punishment for like minded rebellion as this, houses and GOD GROWS the baby. The Life comes from THE CREATOR, thru the father, whose sperm swims. The egg of a woman is only made alive when the sperm finds the opening and enters in. Outside of that, it's a dead egg. Life is sent from the HEAVENLY FATHER thru the earthly father.
utugooful 1 day ago
@coolwater55
are you serious? you call yourself a Christian but yet you come and "try" to show me contradictions in the Bible, what foolishness! your not fooling anyone by saying your a believer in Christ and His follower.. go and ACTUALLY repent and trust in Jesus before the 2nd coming, caz no one with the Holy Spirit would talk the way you do.. you say women can have authority over men and teach them, i gave you 1 tim and 1 cor that say no, and all you have to say is the Bible contradicts.
JusJuiceIt 13 hours ago
@coolwater55
i would love to show you how i disagreed with almost all of what you said, but im not going to simply because you believe God contradicted himself. if all scripture is Gods word, and you believe theres contradictions in that scripture, you have a very bad idea of what God is.
i invite you to what God is, repent and trust in Jesus alone.
JusJuiceIt 3 days ago
Jesus said all can come to him and all are equal. Jesus spells things out quite clearly for all to read. By denying that quite a few of the scriptures do contradict in many places, means you are blinding yourself to parts of the bible which makes you appear uneducated. In turn this makes people NOT believe in Christ because if you were honest you could still see the writings in the bible for what they are while still honouring and worshiping CHRIST.
coolwater55 3 days ago
You can disagree with me all you want. I know that Jesus says all can come to him, and can share the good news, without restrictions.
Jesus never gives rules. He gives INVITATIONS. So, your word, invitation is a very good one. But you forgot it is JESUS who invites US to ask HIM into our lives and hearts. There are no conditions other than giving ones LIFE to HIM and repenting of harming others or our sins and turning from sin.
Jesus knocks and never forces HIMSELF.
coolwater55 3 days ago
He also balked at the established Pharisees and uneducated, superstitious like behaviour of society in that time frame.
Jesus had NO heirarchy and made sure in his ministry that all were treated equal. Oh, but wait, he loved Mary M. and seemed to enjoy her company, now didn't he.
We can ONLY refer to the authority of what JESUS said in the end. We can access Jesus in places other than the bible too. For if one believes in Jesus, they know Jesus is everywhere and in everything.
coolwater55 3 days ago
What I mean by uneducated, again I refer to peoples ideas about afflictions about disabilities or poverty. The reigning thought was that they must have done something wrong or must stay in a low life position in that mode. Whereas, Jesus overturned those thoughts and said all are worthy of the Kingdom of God but ONLY by the saving GRACE of God. .
If YOU find something wrong with that interpretation, then discuss it. The rest of the bible has been debated till kingdom come.
coolwater55 3 days ago
@coolwater55 That is a damnable doctrine that has spread like wildfire and has caused many to fall asleep while still awake. It is a doctrine of pride and humanism. Put away your sins and search A LOT more diligently for THE TRUTH.... PLEASE.
utugooful 1 day ago
@coolwater55
"Mary Magdalene btw, was the FIRST preacher. Jesus gave her the position to be the first witness to his resurrection and HE TOLD her to GO WITNESS to the others."
ok, i really have trouble on why you brought up Magdalene as evidence for women to teach in some way. please quote me the verse in the Bible where it states Magdalene was the first preacher? on top of that, can you please read the verse for what it actually says, Mary was told to go and TELL the disciples that Jesus has
JusJuiceIt 4 days ago
Please quote me the exact verse where Jesus says ONLY men can be preachers. According to the logic of some, Jesus breath on the 12 disciples makes them apostles. But JESUS does NOT say he has to BREATH personally on ALL MEN of the future, to give them authority to preach. The 72 that Jesus sent out? Where does it say they are men? Many experts conjecture that they were men and women. Acts has both MEN and WOMEN receiving the FIRST wave of the HOLY SPIRIT after Jesus ascension to heaven.
coolwater55 3 days ago
If that is the case that only the first 12 are true preachers because Jesus breathed on them personally, then NO man afterward can have authority unless Jesus does the exact same to them.
Whereas, the pentecost and subsequent long treatise of Paul to early Church leaders in Romans is being DISSED by many as evidence that women were amoung first preachers and leaders.
coolwater55 3 days ago
@coolwater55
risen.. he didn't tell her to go and teach them anything, all she was to do, was give them the message that Jesus was alive.. thats it! once again, show me the Bible verse that says she was authorized by Jesus to preach among men?.. please dont shy away from the points iv brought up, respond to them directly.. and also id like to add, i dont have any problems with women preaching, UNLESS theres a man there and she takes authority over him, if a women teaches other women, thats fine
JusJuiceIt 4 days ago
Preaching - To TELL the gospel.
JESUS is the way, truth and life" Jn 14:6 I have repented and received the Holy Spirit -Jn, Rm Acts. Jesus says you can have eternal life. Jn 3:16
There is no special interpretation, those are FACTS that JESUS gives us.
That is SHARING the gospel.
If I TEACH about the gospel - to interpret to todays world, based on my right from JESUS infusing me with the HOLY SPIRIT, men cannot stop me because my AUTHORITY is JESUS and NOT Man. ;) God Bless.
coolwater55 3 days ago
But in doing so, I NEVER say I have or am the authority. I defer to the Holy Spirit and JESUS.
Whatever Jesus says in the bible, holds true. One can never go wrong if they stick soley to JESUS ministry in the 4 books in the bible. Or include the book of 1 and 2 John is good too.
It is when MEN say they are the authority over and above JESUS that is wrong.
My interpretation of the bible is just as good or even better than some. For I do not base it on my interpretation only.
coolwater55 3 days ago
@coolwater55
and the reason i came to that conclusion is from the Bible.. but the Bible makes it very clear that once the women is put in authority of any man and tries to teach/preach God's word.. God says, NOT me, but God says, thats not acceptable.
go to the top of this page, on the right hand side where the other videos are shown, click the one thats named John Macarthur, please watch that video.
JusJuiceIt 4 days ago
John 20: 16-18
"Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned around and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17Jesus told her, “Don't hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
18 So Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” She ALSO TOLD them what he had said to her."
coolwater55 3 days ago
This implies that she tells them MORE than just the resurrection. She is by all definitions the FIRST PREACHER of the GOOD NEWS of the RISEN LORD!
Let us recap. Mary M is with Jesus throughout the majority of his ministry. She and her family support Jesus financially, emotionally and physically and spiritually. (Lazarus and Martha are her family).
coolwater55 3 days ago
Mary stays with Jesus to his crucifixion, and prepares his body (with help) and stands by the tomb. Note: the "apostles" ALL but John have abandoned Jesus at the Garden of Gesemene.
Only the women and John of the male and random others are at the crucifixion - ACCORDING to the BIBLE.
Jesus shows his RISEN SELF to her FIRST. She is the FIRST witness - of the gospel. Jesus very own words COMMISSIONING her to go TELL the others. That means she is the FIRST PREACHER!
coolwater55 3 days ago
I also bring up Mary M. because for some reason the CHURCH writers make her VANISH after this point in the bible.
But, funny thing - Nag Hammadi discovery of the "Lost gospels" prove that Mary was influencial in the early Church and that PETER was very jealous of Mary.
Etc. etc. There were lots of gospels to CHOOSE from.
coolwater55 3 days ago
Only 4 (FOUR) books about ministry and amazing miracles and resurrection and HIS PROMISE? Out of hundreds to choose from.
Jn 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which IF they were written in detail, I suppose that even the WORLD itself would not contain the BOOKS that would be written."
PAUL or anon. authors in the NT, are NOT the authority. Only JESUS yesterday, today and tomorrow is the authority. And YOU men keep trying to quell those who KNOW better!
coolwater55 3 days ago
@mtlindale
the Bible clearly teaches women can not be pastors, not to mention.. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and 1 Corinthians 14:33-35.. two verses that clearly say women can not teach!.. and if your saying to yourself, but that was how it was back then, women couldnt teach, its different now... umm no thats false, if that were true please give me the scripture to back it up, iv given you nothin but facts and Bible verses, all i want from you is one verse saying women JUST couldnt teach back then..
JusJuiceIt 4 months ago
@JusJuiceIt It's not enough to know what the bible says you also need to know why it's said. 1Cor. 14:33-38 Paul is rebuking the men. Look at the end of 34 it says as also says the law, where in the law is it quoted for women to keep silence or be under obedience? If it's not in the first five books (the law) then what law is he speaking? In 36 he questions 34-35 he starts with WHAT? came the word of GOD out from you or came it unto you only? He's talking to the men v37 If any MAN.
mtlindale 4 months ago
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).
Tommylavallee14 5 months ago
@Tommylavallee14 You might want to research why Paul wrote that, Paul was never against women only false doctrine.
mtlindale 5 months ago
@mtlindale to be in silence. do you want more verses why women shouldnt teach? they werent meant to. its not sexism its just not for them. woman are just supposed to tell their revelations to their husbands
Tommylavallee14 5 months ago
@Tommylavallee14 How do they explain a saved person who came up under a woman pastor and all their life lived a Holy, sanctified, holy ghost filled life. Is God not pleased with that woman pastor who lead his sheep in the right way? Don't run from this question. Answer it.
basicman101 4 months ago
@basicman101
We can not save no one. You may be drawn to God & go to a ministry under a woman. But God expects us to grow. And he will show you that it is not his way he is never going to change just because you say so. All those women are LIARS.
Christ is not above using them to get what he need to his people. He said he will still tell them that healed the sick cast out demons & did many wonderful works in his name.
DEPART FROM ME!!!
KWhamm 3 months ago
@KWhamm You said "Christ is not above using them to get what he need to his people" So you are saying that Christ is just pimping them? Thats what it sounds like to me. Are you saying Jesus s a pimp?
higherground2050 3 months ago
@higherground2050 No that was not it at all. Christ said; Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7
So as you can see it is not sinners prophesying, casting out demons,doing many wonderful works. These are church folks men & women. And they will still be told DEPART FROM ME!
KWhamm 2 months ago
@KWhamm am pastor garrett if you are a preacher let the women be they are our help mate,not for us to debate,to the women if you say god told you to preach then preach and stay out of the debates,step aside and let god do his job
ThatOneChaChick 3 months ago
@ThatOneChaChick YOU ARE DECEIVED IF YOU THINK THAT THE ONLY WAY A WOMAN CAN HELP IS TO PREACH. Many will lead others to Christ & them themselves become a castaway! For you cannot pick & choose what to follow. You only bring problems Abraham & Sarah, God does not need your help. To be a willing vessel is to be obedience. Not just follow what we want to follow. God sees that to & many will bust hell wide open thinking that they can walk in disobedience & still walk into Glory.
God is not Mocked
KWhamm 2 months ago
@ThatOneChaChick If God says women must not userp authority over a man or take the place of a man, that woman is disobeying God word. Sure, if she is called, then so be it, but then let her only preach and teach to other women. Teaching class is one thing, but going before the congragation of men and woman and screaching the word? That is WRONG!
sirhood2 1 month ago
No god did not call man or woman to preach, but he called a willing vessel to put his spirit in, so he the(Holy Ghost) can preach, so every time i get a chance i am going to preach every demon back to the pits of hell..
egalenest 5 months ago
@egalenest Amen to that, a willing vessel for the Spirit to use and speak out of.
mtlindale 5 months ago
Thank GOD for women who preach and lead others to Christ, it is a shame we have such false doctrine in the church telling women they can't preach.
mtlindale 5 months ago
@mtlindale no false doctrine it's Gods word and women are doing God a favor be preaching and leading people to him he said no and that settles it for me.
brocklightning 5 months ago
@brocklightning God never told women not to preach anyone qualified may preach. It is man that tells women not to preach because they misunderstand what Paul wrote. Paul was never against women only false doctrine.
mtlindale 5 months ago
@mtlindale Paul preached Jesus Christ and it really has nothing to do with qualification It has do with I timothy 2: 11-12 and 13-14 it was not man that made it this way it was Eve, Some men are very legalistic and they try to put women down threw this scripture but that is not Gods way. He took the right away because of Eve. a woman is to be your queen and be adored and honored but part of eve's punishment was no more co equal
brocklightning 5 months ago
@brocklightning When Paul speaks of the order of creation and Eve being decieved he was speaking against the false doctrine of the women that came out of the temple of Artemis they believed Eve came first and all life came from her, Paul corrects them by stating the order of creation. Then he says Eve was decieved and in transgression, he was telling the women of Ephesus they were decieved in thier false doctrine of Artemis and in transgression. Study the history of Ephesus and temple of Artemis
mtlindale 5 months ago
women have many glorious rolls in the church preaching is just not one of them.
brocklightning 5 months ago
@brocklightning Paul was never against women preaching. In 1cor. 14 where people always assume Paul is telling women to be in silence, he is actually rebuking the men for trying to keep women silent. In Timothy he tells the women not to teach because of false doctrine coming from them. Telling women they cannot preach is false doctrine it's not about male or female but wheather or not JESUS is speaking through them.
mtlindale 5 months ago
@brocklightning
DOING GOD A FAVOR???
God doesn't need NO HELP, what the hell did he go through all that trouble to leave his word for us to choose to disobey it & help him? If U really want to help someone help yourself, repent, & line up with what the word says. Anything else is a problem.If you think that God wasn't right there when you conceived to disobey you are more lost that you can possibly realize
For I promise you, GOD SAID WHAT HE MEANT. AND MEANT EVERY DOT & TITTLE OF WHAT HE SAID.
KWhamm 2 months ago
@KWhamm you miss understood who could do God a favor really brother? I challenge anyone to show me were God ordained a woman to preach it's just that simple people on this page going with their interpretations and what they pastor said and what bishop so and so said all that show me what God said and get of that 99.9% I stand on 100% people going back and forth on this page just show were God ordain it
brocklightning 1 month ago
@brocklightning AMEN BROTHER! I agree 100%. As I tell everyone I meet that thinks its ok for women to preach and teach in church. Did Jesus call men to follow him and be desciples and apostles or did he call women? If he called women, show me where? You can't! Jesus called only MEN to preach and teach. Women are allowed to do so, but only to other women, NOT in mixed congragations! That is Bible! Eve sined against God and now he's going to give them permision to preach? Not so!
sirhood2 1 month ago
@sirhood2 God Bless You lets get back to the Bible
brocklightning 1 month ago
And Adam did eat of the fruit also so he did not stay with the word either!! It's annoying how people seem to forget that he ate it also!! He could have said no BUT HE DIDN'T !!
nilkcamcela 5 months ago
@brocklightning So women are able to tell others the goodness of Jesus and help them get to Jesus but can only do it during testimony service and outside of church ?!!
nilkcamcela 5 months ago
William Branham breaks it down in (Marriage and Divorce) Eve dropped the ball she did not stay with the word as a result no more co equal. besides that were does God Ordain women preachers? let not argue over what we think what did God say people need to stop mixing Gods word with man made ideas and stay with he said 100% not 99.9 100% lets get back to the Bible and stop guessing
brocklightning 5 months ago
@brocklightning That is BS find out who Lilith was be fore she was written out of the creation story. I guess she dropped the ball to .
beeboi1969 5 months ago
@beeboi1969 who? Lilith come on really God word is perfect we both know that he never ordain women to preach. Women take it as a sexest thing but is Gods word it's in the Bible and when they dispute it I deny Gods word and what true servents would do that?
brocklightning 5 months ago
never mind opinion do what God said
brocklightning 5 months ago
Reading some of these comments are just ignorent!! God has not said anything about not letting women preach!! And if God has called them to preach they are to obey God. God has called all soilders to create his kingdom. Im glad to see that the Women are doing what God has called them to do becuase the people that commented that women have no right to preach have NO heaven nor hell to put them in.
nilkcamcela 5 months ago
@nilkcamcela you can not be silent in the church and preach
brocklightning 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
BBC News Report: All Europeans have 1 to 4 % Neanderthal genes; Black people do not carry this gene.
Research Keywords: BBC Neanderthal
Neanderthals are classified as a sub-human race.
Research Keywords: BBC Neanderthal
This means their Jesus was 1 to 4% sub-human, we are Black people, Modern Man!
Stop worshipping sub-humans and study your ancient Egyptian history and find out who you really are.
pacbiggiecom 5 months ago
Women are outta line when they preach. This isn`t a proclaimation coming from man, but it`s the word of God. And for the people who are for women preaching, debate and argue this fact, they`re debating and arguing against Gods word. When a women rejects Gods word and preaches anyway, she`s actually rebelling against God, and calling God a liar. Satan has called women preachers to the pulpit in the final days of life as we know it, just to weaking the church. This way he can put the A.C in place.
LACraig621 6 months ago in playlist Women Preachers, Teachers and Pastors - Listen
Comment removed
LACraig621 6 months ago in playlist Women Preachers, Teachers and Pastors - Listen
Do women have the right to preach??? No they dont!!!
ToWorshipHimintruth 6 months ago
ok like in every situation God used a man to lead his people the 12 desciples were all man they all lead he did not use a women to be a disciple and he did not use a women to lead if you notice God used only men to lead and men were created first then women
joshuabarron92 7 months ago
i believe women shouldnt be able to preach because first of all God does things in order for example in a family house hold men or on top yes men and women are equal but men are the head of the house hold.... and men have the last word yes they talk about it as partners but man has the last word and also God chose man as the head
joshuabarron92 7 months ago
I have a book you can read to help you become educated, its called THE BIBLE! 1 timmothy 2:12.
1hogfan83 7 months ago
I try not to debate God's word, because it's not to be debated. All I can do is present to you the understanding that God has given me. If you don't agree, so be it. I don't have to challenge whether or not you read the bible to make a point. The words coming out of your own mouth will condemn you. So I point you to "Philippians 3:19 - Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.."
mikemillion2000 7 months ago
"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?" (I Cor. 14:34-36, NASB) Case closed!
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
Romans 16 and Jesus say otherwise! Paul is NOT Jesus btw. Case is NOT closed. It is wide open. And men no longer get the say or the exclusive rights to "interpretation" of what JESUS mandated.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 So the Spirit of Christ speaking through Paul has to be degraded in order for you to come to grips with the issue. This proves theologian Wayne Grudem right when he states that female pastors are a foot in the door of the church for a non-Christian liberal interpretation of scripture. Given the arguments for female pastors female pastors have to logicall accept homosexuals as ministers as well. Their arguments are the same exact arguments.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
side note: highly esteemed biblical scholars from all walks - have determined that Paul probably only authored 7 of the epistles.
Books of Tim, Titus, and Ephesians are almost 100% NOT authored by Paul.
AND...The early Church - those knowledgeable/full of the Holy Spirit were to lead others to CHRIST and the truth. They did NOT have a bible btw for centuries. So how can the bible be the ultimate authority? IT cannot, it is ONLY a guide. Jesus and the HOLY SPIRIT are the authority.
coolwater55 7 months ago
Clarification about the bible.
Manuscripts of the gospel stories or those surrounding them were written on HUGE parchments and bound in separate books.
But they were so huge that it would have taken a small truck to carry around 60-80 books or so.
The canons were agreed upon about 300 A.D. at Nicean council. Alexandrian and Syrian, etc factioned off.
People seem to forget MAJORITY of CHRISTIANS relied on word of mouth or trusting those with knowledge and the Holy Spirit.
coolwater55 7 months ago
The WAY the scripture was passed and known was mostly by word of mouth from BOTH men and women.
So, on that note, I must go for now. Lots to do.
God Bless.
coolwater55 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@coolwater55 I have a simple question for you. Do you believe truth is absolute?
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@coolwater55 I suggest you read to books to help you become educated on these issues. A General Introduction to the Bible by Norman Geisler and The Canon of Scripture by FF Bruce.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
I suggest you read a wider range of books to help YOU understand the HISTORY of the bible and to understand what JESUS actually SAYS and DOES in the bible.
Always keep in mind. There was NO bible as exists when Jesus walked the earth. And one really does NOT need a bible to be SAVED.
It might aid at times, but, you men seem to forget that Jesus does NOT live between a book cover. Jesus lives everywhere and works in ways neither you or I can know many times.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 I have two degrees in Biblical studies and I have taught at a Bible college. You are incorrect about the Bible and that is dangerous. God has spoken through His prophets and Apostles and you reject them. You cannot know Jesus Christ and have another Gospel than what Paul taught. Claim to believe in Christ, yet not the book that reveals Christ to you is a game. You simply choose to not honor the majority of the New Test as the Word of God.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
1. Did Moses have women and children killed?
2. Did Moses tell his men to kidnap virgins and keep them for themselves?
3. Did other men in the OT have innocent women and children killed. Or raped. Because stealing women from other tribes and forcing them into marriage is rape.
4. Did white people justify slavery according to the bible?
5. Did men go to war or cause other to be killed or kill to force people into Christianity?
6. The bible is a DANGEROUS book if not handled well.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 From you view there is no reason to handle it at all.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
You have two degrees in biblical studies. Good for you. Did you learn about the history of the bible too? Or did you learn in a biased atmosphere?
It is neither here nor there in the end. It is fine to know what the bible says. It is MORE Important to know what JESUS tells us and says.
Some scripture can aid, but most scripture does not aid. Considering over 800,000 words in scripture and much of the OT is extremley violent, we would know that Jesus way is best.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 It is Jesus who taught that the Old Testament is God's Word. You merely using the word "Jesus" and stuffing it will your own presuppositions. You say you follow Jesus, but reject His view of the Bible. You don't follow Jesus.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@coolwater55 At the end of the day you do not have Jesus' view of the Bible. You likely disagree. What do you think Jesus' view of scripture is? I know what it is , but what do you think it is?
crosswayokc 7 months ago
There is some great literature in the bible and some great sayings from Jesus.
But.. the problem: Some men treat their wives like children, do not allow them to work or drive. etc. their version of "submissive". Some men justified slavery according to parts of the bible. ie. Ephesians. Yes, that pesky problem - did Paul write it OR? who?
The bible can be a guide in some ways, but other ways not. So that is a caution to everyone. Some abuse scripture and some worship the bible.
coolwater55 7 months ago
There is some great literature in the bible and some great sayings from Jesus.
But.. the problem: Some men treat their wives like children, do not allow them to work or drive. etc. their version of "submissive". Some men justified slavery according to parts of the bible. ie. Ephesians. Yes, that pesky problem - did Paul write it OR? who?
The bible can be a guide in some ways, but other ways not. So that is a caution to everyone. Some abuse scripture and some worship the bible.
coolwater55 7 months ago
Scripture is a guide in some ways, but it is NO longer apt in some ways today. Just some parts, mostly where Jesus is alive and Jesus sayings.
Can't take the bible literally or else one would be raping virgins and paying off fathers 50 shekels to protect the FATHERS pride. Or start killing people for eating pork or shellfish. Or stoning adulterers. etc.
What bothers those who debate with me or those like us is that we don't follow YOUR way, we choose to skip directly to CHRIST'S WAY.
coolwater55 7 months ago
At the end of the day:
Are you the judge of of my soul because I don't see things your way or follow your doctrine? I say I follow JESUS and that is not good enough for you? Your ego getting in the way or you did not read all my comments.
30,000 different doctrines and dogma - all from the SAME bible. Men still can't agree. And Majority of those male leaders in churches are very WELL read in bible and studies. Yet they disagree on small and big things from the SAME bible.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
You are being uncharitable and on an ego roll to declare my faith obervance to Christ.
I do NOT have to BELIEVE in the BIBLE in order to worship CHRIST and be faithful to Christ.
Do you understand the word "belief" in this case. WE BELIEVE in CHRIST as God.
WE do NOT hold the bible in the same lofty position AS GOD.
You mistake man made concepts for what JESUS says.
Men are not GOD. JESUS is GOD. Men seem to forget that at times.
God Bless.
coolwater55 7 months ago
You are out of line discrediting my faith level with Christ. However, I am not discrediting the bible nor you. I am putting the BIBLE in perspective with its position compared to the POWER of CHRIST. I don't AGREE with you, but that does not give me the right or power to see into your soul. JESUS tells us instantly if we believe in HIM and understand what LOVE means.
I leave this discussion now. You do as you will. I do as I will - in the name of CHRIST.
Blessings in Christ.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
The bible did NOT reveal CHRIST to me btw. I came to CHRIST via the Holy Spirit via a profound turning of my life and prayer along with a nun.
It has nothing to do with the bible. JESUS saves. NOT a bible. If you believe a bible saves then you put the bible before Christ.
Only CHRIST saves.
I also believe Christ went in bodily form when resurrected. Absolutely!!!
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 Strange the Bible does nothing but reveal Jesus, yet you say it does not reveal Jesus. The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible and yet you claim the HOly Spirit is the one who revealed Jesus to you. Jesus saves yes, but without the Bible you would not know that Jesus is God's means of salvation. This is non-sense...it is like saying you follow your father, but words He says. Jesus is saves and the Bible is God's authoritative revelation of the Good News.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
Men wrote the bible. Period. Otherwise there would be no errors or contradictions. It would all make total sense, instantly and there would be nothing to debate to this day.
Men felt inspired when they wrote. But choosing which books were inspired is another story as we all know.
Not one iota of the law will disappear? until everything is accomplished. What did Jesus mean by this?
Things will change when he dies and is resurrected.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 You did not get the content of the resurrrection from an existential experience but from what God has spoken. Even if you didn't read it yourself it is grounded in the absolute rational and knowable written revelation of God's Word. In Short, Jesus, The Apostles, and the Early Church Fathers ALL viewed the entire Old Test and the writings of the Apostles as God's Word. You do not hold this view and therefore it is reasonable to consider you view nonChristian.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
As far as my believing in the resurrection? I have had visions of Jesus and Mary, so perhaps that happens regardless of what one reads.
Jesus also did NOT have a NT.
Jesus is omnipresent and can work just fine without one written word if that is how Jesus wishes to work in people. And many people come to Jesus that way.
People never having read one word in the bible have turned their lives to Christ. The bible can guide at times, but the bible is NOT what saves people. Jesus does.
coolwater55 7 months ago
My dearth of literature that is NOT liberal but informative proves you wrong.
And do not forget Jesus was a rebel and did NOT ascribe the the pharisees or those who are worried about the letter of the law versus the spiritual laws.
The spiritual laws - 1 John 4.
Matthew 22 and 25 and so it goes. I know the bible REALLY well.
People can read for themsselves and know what the bible REALLY says. Always rely on what Jesus says and one cannot go wrong.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 It clear you have many vested interests in demoting the Bible.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@coolwater55 Liberal scholars you mean and that proves my point. Thank you for proving my point that female pastorate is not biblical. You just showed everyone that you reject the Bible to accept female pastors. You literally have to abandon parts of the Bible to hold your position. Your free to do that, but lets me honest here. The ones holding to male only pastorate are also the ones holding to a Christian view of the Bible. thank you for making my case.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
Actually, I made my case. You decided to choose that part which an anonymous person declares things about women.
Whereas, I CHOOSE JESUS.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 It does not reason well for your position that you use as your argument that you think there is a separation of authority between part of the Bible written by Paul and other parts of the Bible. Is this the type of interpretation of scripture that one should expect from female pastors? If so, even if they are a man they have no business pastoring with such a non-Christian interpretation of scripture.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
Who said Paul is degraded? because we say that CHRIST is GOD and our SAVIOUR, not Paul.
Paul is a mortal man, just like you. He was not even present when Christ was alive. He gets some honour, but he is NOT CHRIST.
So those are FACTS. NO degrading happening at all.
coolwater55 7 months ago
I don't reject the AUTHORITY of CHRIST.
I read the bible CLEARLY. But no one can live ALL scripture literally. ONE MUST glean what CHRIST asks of us.
History is replete with SHAMEFUL exploitations or horrible mistranslations of the bible and forcing people to live the way MEN want and not the way CHRIST wants.
Following the BIBLE the way YOU want others to - does not equal unchristian.
Christ's LAWS are LOVE and SERVICE.
We have every right to question and study scripture!
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 You do reject the Bible, but not Christ. That is strange. Jesus says "It is written" to confront Satan and your telling me "It is not written". I don't question you on your interpretation of God's Word, but on your rejection of the Bible as God's Word. See when I read Paul I am reading the Word of God. You claim it is not the Word of God. Your repeating the same lie as Satan in the garden. "THY WORD IS TRUTH"
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
Way to go and be a typical fundamentalist. Implying that I am from Satan.
That is truly low life debating and has nothing to do with me or my relationship with Christ.
I proved you wrong. Jesus did NOT restrict women. MEN restrict women.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 A fundamentalist is one who hold the fundamentals of their faith. THANk YOU Your clearly not a fundamentalist.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@coolwater55 If you reject the testamony of Christ from His Apostles you reject Him. They are called by Him for this purpose. I will trust them and not you 2000 years after the fact.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
Where do I reject the apostles? Who walked with Christ? Did Paul walk with Christ?
And I don't reject Paul. I just put the writings of Paul in their proper place.
Always, it is CHRIST who makes the commandments. Not Paul. Otherwise you would be celibate and happily so.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 "Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness," (2 Peter 3:15-17) Peter warns about you
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
I am not impressed with employing scripture to make slams against my faith levels.
1 John 4. 15
"Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him and he in God.
16 We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
17 In this is love brought to perfection among us, that we have confidence on the day of judgment because as he is, so are we in this world."
coolwater55 7 months ago
John 14:6
John 3:16
John 15:12
Matthew 22 and 25.
1 John 4:18-19
"18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
19 We love because he first loved us."
Intimidation or insults and slams do not scare me. Saying I am aligned with Satan is a slam against what JESUS stands for.
We can use the bible as a GUIDE. But we do NOT worship a bible. We worship CHRIST.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 Yes Paul did walk with Jesus. Jesus meet Paul after His resurrection and called Paul to be an Apostle to the gentiles. Paul did not call for every one to be celibate. Do not lie about Pauls writings.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@crosswayokc
1. Paul "hears" Jesus but does not "see" Jesus.
2. Paul does recommend celibacy over marriage. Admonitions that say if a person cannot help themselves, it is better to marry. But 1 Cor 7 is all about recommending celibacy over and above marriage. I never said that Paul called for "everyone" to be celibate.
But that he recommends celibacy over marriage.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 If you really saw Christ as God you would recongize this Apostle authority in teaching doctrine.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
@coolwater55 Also, I want to ask you if you believe in the physical bodiliy resurrection of Jesus Christ from the same corps that was dead in the tomb?
crosswayokc 7 months ago
Now the scriptures are nothing but a knockout punch in the face of female preachers, but in my experience most women pastors are angry and using the pastorate a a type of self psychotheropy to flesh out some angust against males. Now having said that, if Bynum or White were men I would still think they have no business preaching their errors are huge.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
All serious theologians know that women are stricked from being pastors in the Bible. Theses theologians just don't bring it up much these days. I was glad to play a part in a female pastor stepping down. I asked her, "What do you do when your husband/co-pastor directs you the opposite way of what you feel is God's will for your church." She said, "We do what I say, because I am the one who hears from God." I said, "Your attitude is sin and you should step down". She did in a month.
crosswayokc 7 months ago
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crosswayokc 7 months ago
In a word.. No.. Women in ministry is not a biblical thing.. it's a wordly and church organization thing..
mikemillion2000 7 months ago
@mikemillion2000 Then you did not read all of your bible. You also did not take note that Phoebe is a deacon, Junia is an apostle, and NO where does JESUS say women cannot be preachers. NO WHERE.
In addition, 1 - 2 Tim, Titus, Ephesians are not written by Paul.
And remember well. PAUL is NOT JESUS.
Women in ministry is a BIBLICAL thing RM 16, Acts 21 and Mary M as first preacher. Women are in ministries today.
It is done. And JESUS condones it, so it is NOT a worldly thing.
coolwater55 7 months ago