Roman Catholicism denies the Gospel by saying that faith is necessary but not sufficient. Faith is sufficient for salvation which leads to good works (Eph. 2:8-10).
(1)Vatican catechism 1260 "Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved" How can ANY believer in Christ support this heresy ?Christ is the only way , truth and light !!! (2)total misrepresentation of the bible: How can the RCC claim that you can only be saved if you are baptized ? What about the man next to Jesus on the cross ? Was he baptized ? No.Thats why we need SS
Both, Protestants and Catholics, PLEASE Type "LUTHER'S BIBLE" in Google & check out the RESULTS !! For accuracy, and the REAL TRUTH, read AND print the WIKIPEDIA HISTORICAL version {evidence} !!!
Also, wouldn't it be AWESOME if Catholics & Protestants became ONE??!! We could change the whole WORLD !! Peace.
In a sense one can say the existence of the Roman Catholic Church has helped preserve the canon of Scripture, but it is utterly false to credit this religious institution with developing and creating it. Ask yourself this question: Were the books of the NT authoritative before the church council that formed the canon? Certainly. These councils only affirmed what was already known.
@HiDefJesus very true, but without that confirmation, what good were they? what good would it be to be inspired and authoritative, but not recognized as such, or to be in company with innumerable other contradictory works? to this day nearly every Christian accepts the cannon of the bible very nearly as the Church laid it down over a millennium and a half ago, even if they deny the authority of the Church to do just that. without the Church, there would be no (one) recognizable "Bible."
>>>Ask yourself this question: Were the books of the NT authoritative before the church council that formed the canon?
That is only true to a degree. Gradually by the first part of the 4th century about 20 of the 27 books were considered inspired. That left a myriad of others, of which some were widely deemed authorative and used in churches. It took decades for the other 7 to be agreed upon and deemed canonical, leaving serveral not making the cut. Including the Didache!
@182RG You seem to have missed the implication of my question. Was the Gospel of John authoritative the moment John wrote it or only after it was deemed authoritative by men?
As it turns out, it was authoritative when he wrote it.
But that's irrelevant - The problem was that many books were considered inspired by some, but not others. Many congregations were using several writings that were later deemed non-canonic, and rejecting inspired works - possibly even the gospel of John that you mention - and preaching false and incomplete gospel. THAT was the importance of the determination of canon
@catchzz You're the one who needs to study history. My question was partly rhetorical. The canon was may have been officially recognized by some council, but these councils did not determine it. Here is another question: Who/what makes these books authoritative? Surely you don't believe that a council does.
@astralharmony I have studied history which is why I know there is one true church. Why dont you answer your own question. I already did answer it since the church is authoritative as handed over by Christ and by Her binding authority declared the inspired canon. So what in your mind makes the books authoritative and be sure that you are NOT using circular logic.
The true church of Jesus Christ is a relationship, not a membership. It isn’t any particular protestant denomination or Roman catholic. It doesn't have a roof or an address. We are the Body of Christ, past, present and future from all around the world who have accepted Christ’s work on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, once and for all. Our names have been written in the Book of Life from the beginning. 1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given.
@johnthreesixteen316 You keep on spreading your ignorance. Jesus Christ founded a church, ONE church, not of a building but of ONE solid doctrine to be guided by ONE shepherd where there is ONE flock believing in ONE truth. Regardless of the nonsense you spread about relationship/membership there is one truth of Christ found in the church He established during His time here on earth to carry out ONE truth for all generations.
Dont post on Catholic videos if you dont like them.
@catchzz Hello friend. There is no ignorance. Christ is our shepherd and we are His flock, the body of Christ who have accepted His sacrifice on the cross. We are His church. Ask Christ to be your saviour today.
@johnthreesixteen316 I will keep you in my prayers that you join the church, & let the holy spirit open your eyes to truth. Its sadly evdient you have no clue about scriptures, the church, nor Christian history.
To be deep in history refutes your idiotic claims that Christ's body is divided by the fragments of protestants & lone ranger Christians. As Christ demands, you need to find the church. Believers can be outside the church.
John 10:16 - Find the one flock guided by one shepherd.
Gods Word isnt just confined to paper, its alive & well within His church.
Non-Catholic's never define Sola Scriptura the same way. Never have I heard this definition- "what God says is FINAL, and authoritative." It can be difficult to refute a moving target when believers in Sola Scriptura have different understanding of it.
Acknowledging SS's falsehood is NOT a denial of Scripture.
The contradiction concept presented below is a complete farce.
Actually Catholics claim that Sola Scriptura is self-refuting because it doesn't teach it in the Bible. That is a contradiction, not a self-refutation. What is self-refuting is Catholics denial of Sola Scriptura, on the simple reason that SS itself doesn't teach SS. The authority of God's word is normative, with that in mind, along with Jesus' appeal to "it is written" and Paul's distinction between God's word and the wisdom of man in 1 Corin. 2.; we can conclude SS deductively.
Sola Scriptura simply says "what God says is FINAL, and authoritative." I disagree with your description in the video, "the lack of a normative standard means..." Why rule out God's word as lack of a normative standard? Why wouldn't the authority of God's word by considered "normative standard?" The Bible doesn't teach SS, but isn't listening to God's word an OBVIOUS rule of faith? It's like saying, Prof. So and so teaches that Prof. So and so doesn't teach. SS is an obvious rule of faith.
@4IDHero Hello friend. I agree. Something has to be the measuring stick by which all things are judged. And that measuring stick is God's Word, not man-made traditions.
Csmatyi's reasoning is completely illogical. Within the same conversation he denies the scriptural evidence of the pope. When asked to produce his evidence of an "invisible church" he tells me the word Trinity is not found in scripture either. That fact is elementary which we all know, but his logic is clearly that elementary to suit his own needs. I guess csmatyi is the infallible interpretor of scripture able to deduce all implicit teachings & Christ build his church on the rock of csmatyi!
@catchzz Hello friend. There is no scriptural evidence for a pope. "for thou art petros, and upon this petra". The church is built upon Peter's confession of faith as to who he believed Christ was. Christ is the rock.
I would like all to know the video linked to this from csmatyi is created by a complete coward who cannot defend his own heresy & would rather resort to misconceptions & lies to spread his hatred for Catholics. Only a coward would rather ban someone engaging in a conversation asking the tough questions. Its not worth your time to view a video that cannot produce 1 passage from scripture saying its the highest authority. Usually a conversation bears some fruit, but this guy is a lost cause.
@RebornInOnesDeath Jesus had authority from GOD to interpret the Old Testament, and preach His ministry. YOU, however, DO NOT have such authority!
Christ gave us the Catholic Church in Matthew 16:18 to continue to be His representative on Earth and continue His ministry. 2000 years of History confirm this.
Catholics believe that only the Church has authority to interpret Scripture: Protestants believe that EVERYONE has authority - this is an erroneous heresy and has led to Moral Relativism.
@RebornInOnesDeath Jesus did not practice Sola Scriptura. John 10:22-23 is based off of 1 Maccabees and is not found in the Protestant Bible which would mean he practiced Sola Scriptura according to the Protestant Bible. Matthew 23:2-3 is not found in the Bible, but Jesus quoted it.
"The heresy of Sola Scriptura"...unbelievable!!!! How could Sola Scriptura be Heresy.
You believe all 4 of the Marian Dogma and you call sola scriptura heresy? What do you think about the 5th dogma? Its on the way. "The apparition" wants it and that is who is being served in all of this. The catholic church has opened up a lot of people to deception. (1 Timothy 4:1) This apparition is NOT scriptural in any way. In church approved visions "SHE" has said she is the only one who can help.
@dancer1563 The church has the authority, yours doesn't. Man made religion will keep dividing the body of Christ because of Sola Scriptura. That in itself is a HERESY.
For I call as witnesses all listeners of the words of the prophecy of THIS BOOK. If anyone will have added to these, God will add upon him the afflictions written in THIS BOOK.
And if anyone will have taken away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion from the Book of Life, and from the Holy City, and from these things which have been written in THIS BOOK. (Ap 22:18-19, Catholic PDV)
Is impossible to a non-regenerated man to understand it...
Satan, the murderer & father of LIES, took 2/3 of the Angels with him to Hell ! Luther has done the SAME ! 2/3's of the True Belivers, Christians, SOULS have been ruined by this one 'fallen' man!! Wake Up, dear Protestant brothers & sisters !! 38 thousand Denominations VERSUS only " ONE " CATHOLIC CHURCH ??!! What 'more' proof would seek, after this STARK REALITY ???
Satan, the murderer & father of LIES, took 2/3 of the Angels with him to Hell ! Luther has done the SAME ! 2/3's of the True Belivers, Christians, SOULS have been ruined by this one 'fallen' man!! Wake Up, dear Protestant brothers & sisters !! 38 thousand Denominations VERSUS only " ONE " CATHOLIC CHURCH ??!! What 'more' proof would seek, after this STARK REALITY ???
Satan, the murderer & father of LIES, took 2/3 of the Angels with him to Hell ! Luther has done the SAME ! 2/3's of the True Belivers, Christians, SOULS have been ruined by this one 'fallen' man!! Wake Up, dear Protestant brothers & sisters !! 38 thousand Denominations VERSUS only " ONE " CATHOLIC CHURCH ??!! What 'more' proof would seek, after this STARK REALITY ???
the only thing that gets in the way of the truth is palo's ego... for some reason he thinks he is right & everyone else is wrong.....if the church keeps to its oral traditions then one should clarify the origins..
@paleocrat....brother, thank you so much for your videos. The fact you were once Protestant and now Catholic helps to bridge the theological gap between both groups of Christians. Honestly, it's because of people like you that I have a better appreciation and understanding of Protestant theology because you break it down pretty simple for us. If only our Protestant brethren knew that their churches started after October 31, 1517, then we could probably have a better understanding of our rift.
We cannot put "tradition" above the scriptures and the witness of the holy spirit in our lives. If we do, we get awful doctrine like infant baptism or confession. Nowhere in the bible does it mention anything about that. I'm not saying it has to for it to be the true way. But I am saying the bible makes many claims about baptism being for grown people as an outward expression of their inward salvation from God. Those claims cannot be dismissed. If you put the tradition above them, you're wrong.
Christ died so that we could live. His death made him the one and only mediator between us and the Father. Show me biblically where there is any need for a confessor. Also show me biblically where there is any mention of the apocryphal books.All through the bible there are mentions of other books, but never once an apocryphal book.On sola scriptura, the bible gives us doctrine on things it mentions. However,it is not the sole authority. God is the sole authority. Not the papacy or church.
the catholic and orthodox churches carry the truth and keys to heaven. ALL other churches are man made and if your church has no bishop, it is heretical and has no authority. i'm sorry but i tell the truth. research your own church in google and read when and WHO founded your church. read and research, it's easy. i don't want to offend anyone. sorry
@gerryboy101 When a Catholic opens their Bible they will never find Jesus in or near a Catholic church. When they open their Bible they will learn that Jesus was not a Catholic and was not the founder of the Catholic religion. They learn the word "Catholic" is not in the Bible. They then learn the Catholic church took up the name "Catholic" from Latin which means "universal."The Catholic church claims it is "universal" or world wide.
@gerryboy101 When Catholics discover this is false, that Jesus started a Jewish religion, they soon learn the Catholic church is not Jewish at all but is Gentile owned, Gentile operated, and a Gentile controlled business enterprise whose product is paganized religion
@gerryboy101 Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew, as were His disciples. He never told them to start a new religion, He told them to continue on with Judaism and to tell the Gospel (Good News) of the Messiah.
It was the early popes, namely Constantine, who started a new religion, packing Paganism into it in order to get Pagans to go along with it. And every protestant church now, is a spin-off from the original Catholic church. this prove how little knowledge you have
@JOAOBUNITAO you're saying a lot of silly things. i'm not sure where to start. i'll address this constantine issue. he was not the founder of the cahtolic church. the term catholic church was used in the 1st century. read ignatius of antioch for this proof. also i am not attacking you. i pointed out that your church was founded by a man. go look it up and research it. you're saying a lot of things and attacking jesus church. think about it for a sec. why are you so against the church?
@gerryboy101 WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURE DOES IT SAY JESUS STARTED CATHOLIC RELIGION! i want you to quote something from the bible that even remotely says catholics was the first christianity!
@JOAOBUNITAO the bible does not use the word catholic just like it does not use trinity etc. peter was the 1st pope in a long succession of popes. you mentioned that the worship of mary added later. please use the word "veneration" and please research the word "annunciation" cahtolics and orthodox recognized mary since the earliest says. i have an analogy for you. if i were in your home (assuming you live with mom) i would respect your mother. if you are in jesus church would you respect his mom
@gerryboy101 nice one.... RESPECT! i do respect her respect and adoration are two complete different things! he never taught people to worship her or pray to her or adore her he never gave her title of "queen of heaven" she had no divine power and once in the bible where she was praised he deflected it and said to praise the lord the whole bible is based upon the teaching to give all adoration and glory to god that is a contradiction to mary the co remptrix! thats demonic!
@gerryboy101 Contrary to the fanciful human imaginations, the Bible teaches that Jesus is the mediator of the new coventant (Hebrews 12:24); He is the door to salvation (John 10:9);and all God's grace and kindness are given "through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:7); no-one is saved through Mary; all are saved who call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13). if mary was so important to how we worship why is it never mentioned in the bible? if she so important why isn't she mentioned after jesus dies
@gerryboy101 27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” 28But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” jesus nor his apostle ever say to adore her and give her glory ! giving any human glory its strongly against the bible i don't see why catholics follow it your traditions are no more powerful than god's!
@gerryboy101 jesus? church? jesus would not let pedofiles run loose in his church ! many things the catholics believe its a contradiction the bible and they make no excuse for it ! many even dont try to argue it because they have no evidence that their teaching is just because the bible says it isn't but yet they believe their traditions are the path! jesus and his apostles gave us what we needed everything else is just been added on by catholics and not approved from jesus or his apostles
@gerryboy101 the bible is the last teachings from jesus and his apostles! and yet look how catholics defend this! they quote the bible saying tradions from the apostle was important ! and they were! but none of saw what they were! the catholic tradition about mary was added way after the apostles had died! so how could they have begun it! look at the assumption of mary ! it was add on 1950 purgatory was declared in 1274 a.d !
"You shall do homage to the Lord your God; Him alone shall you adore." you adore and worship mary! jesus and his apostle spoke out against anything of that nature! Luke 11:27 As he was speaking, a woman in the crowd called out, "God bless your mother--the womb from which you came, and the breasts that nursed you!" ! Jesus replied, He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
God's Word contains the gospel of Christ. It contains how the church should be organized. It tells us what we have to do in order to be saved. The catholic church allowed people who lived 200-400 yrs after Christ and the apostles to determine their doctrine. They forbid some of their priests to marry. I Tim. 4:1-4 There has been problems with pedophilia among some of their priests. the incidents number in the thousands. In their history, they have burned thousands at the stake
Forgiveness is the removal of a debt owed. If I do you harm, you can choose to forgive the debt that I owe you because of the damage I did. Thus, you can forgive me. "And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us" and he was talking to his apostles witch wrote the bible and are believed to be inspired by god himself he did not tell this to priest HE SAID "only god can forgive sins" please explain this part of the scripture?
Without sola scriptura we have no certain, absolute truth by which we can defend our faith. No absolute to judge false doctrine. No confidence in any salvation. If the Bible isn't the authority, we have nothing.
The sola scriptura debate is a moot one. Why, because everything we need to know regarding our salvation is contained within the Bible. The Bible alone is sufficient. No other texts, references or traditions of men is needed. 2 Timothy 3:15.....”And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
@johnthreesixteen316 2 timothy 3:15 you will see that Paul is talking about scripture that Timothy knew since infancy, the Old Testament. You have just proved that you do not need the New Testament.
catholics pray to mary and the bible speak out about it and you worship her she is your godess you are not christian for you only follow whats covenient for them "why doth this man think he can forgive sins? only GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS"
@JOAOBUNITAO we ask mary to pray for us. do you not ask others to pray for or with you? you care not and respect not the mother of jesus. she even said that generations after would call her blessed. do you call her blessed?? NO you don't. therefore the scripture does not pertain to you. only catholics and orthodox call her blessed. your comments are silly. and yes YOU don't call her blessed. no respect for Jesus mother. shameful
@gerryboy101 whats silly is your ignorance do you even know what blessed is? many of god followers in the bible are referred to as "blessed" if someone is blessed doesn't mean you should adore them because only god deserves adoration mary is trully blessed and all christian should admire her relationship with god but this does not mean we should WORSHIP HER! because its against the teachings and what makes you think mary has any divine power to hear the prayers of a billion people shes not god
@gerryboy101 lol i think its hilarious that every catholic uses the same excuse you want to know the biggest difference between asking someone you know to pray with you? they are alive! the bible states not to pray to angels and what do you do?praying to anybody besides god is against the scripture and catholic teachings say mary remained a virgin! and many times in the bible it says otherwise jesus had more than one brother..
@JOAOBUNITAO of course she is not God. we do not worship her. we venerate her. we do not ask mary to forgive our sins, we ask her to pray for us. the term is called "intercession". you do not call her blessed (fact). catholics and orthodox do (in prayer) as well as reference to her. your words are simply anti catholic. may i ask where you take communion? what church do you go to?
@gerryboy101 what difference does it make where im from? that just proves you cannot keep up with the argument and you want to get personal making statues and art of heaven is also forbidden ..your praying to her it doesn't matter how you want to get around it its a form of worship what makes you think she has the power to hear the prayers of a billion people at the same time? ONLY GOD has the power to hear all our prayers you are giving her his glory
@JOAOBUNITAO it matters, because your church taught you biblical doctrine. for some reason you won't tell me what church you go to. that is odd. i am catholic and not afraid to say it. what church do you belong to? where do you take communion? i am curious...
@gerryboy101 im a born again christian and my church didn't teach me i read it and spoke with many christians and i used to be catholics i was raised catholic but i repent so did all my family
@gerryboy101 im done with you ...you chose your faith you choose the word of man over the word of god and the word of jesus and his apostles it doesn't matter what the bible says or doesn't say the fact remains you will always think thats the catholic teachings is more important than the word of jesus and his diciples witch are in the the bible your traditions is not given by jesus himself every time someone honored his mother he deflected and said honor his father no adoration goes to her
@JOAOBUNITAO sorry for the late reply. actually the truth is. Your church that taught you biblical doctrine was founded by a man after the year 1500. You are of the flock of that man. You can prove this easily to yourself using any browser or at the local library. My church was founded by God in the year 33. Jesus Christ. your church is heretical and founded by a man. this is the truth. go research it for yourself. peace be with you
@gerryboy101 your church was founded by jesus? ahahahahaha oh boy thats a good one if your church was founded by jesus why do you believe in things that are contrary to what he said?
@JOAOBUNITAO jesus founded the church and gave keys to peter. the church and doctrine you follow was founded by a man after the year 1500. your views of biblical doctrine was formed at that time. your church is heretical and has no bishop. your church has no authority. it was man made and you are the flock product of that church. i tell you the truth. research it for yourself. i'm being 100% honest with you. the catholic and orthodox churchs carry the truth and authority. your church is from man
@gerryboy101 lol see you gave to biblical text but what you did is personally attack me like i been saying you would these things that are in my bible is in yours as well my church didn't buy it for me i got it in a store before i' even joined the church i used to be catholic and i know what goes on there things statue worship we used to march with a mary statue and people used to touch it and they though it would give them luck or cure their illness my church has the authority over our people
@gerryboy101 were talking about biblical text and how you don't use it catholic teachings are contradiction to the bible my teaching have nothing to do with it for we use the bible as a way of life and none of our tradition is banned in the bible i think your confusing the true word of god with the church authority and their 2 different things that have nothing to do with this argument even the bible it self said... its better to trust in god then in men! and what do you do the exact opposite
@gerryboy101 When Catholics open their eyes and see that the Catholic church has adopted many pagan and heathen celebrations and practices and adapted these to Christian teachings, they know they have to leave. No, they know they have to run! It is right here, they know Jesus Christ was not the founder of the Catholic church. Because Jesus would not start a Church and then allow the gates of hell to conquer it by adopting pagan religious practices.
@JOAOBUNITAO jesus started his church with peter and that church still exists today. you are trying to tear it down but you can't the cahtolic church will always be here and always be strong. many have tried but all have failed. the catholic church is jesus church, don't be against it. don't mock it. you are playing into the hands of separatists and men.
@gerryboy101 look at what the bible says! the gates of hell shall not stain his church! one would be a complete fool to think he was talking about catholics look at history you people have murdered thousands using your faith as an excuse you churches authority is a joke look at history "with this rock" he was talking about jesus he was the foundation he was not talking about a specific church your belief that catholics are the chose religion is far fetched and not in the scripture
@JOAOBUNITAO mary remained a virgin. sorry to correct you. and asking mary to pray for us is not a sin. asking our brothers to pray for us is not a sin. catholics do not believe mary is dead. we believe she is alive with jesus her son.
@gerryboy101 correct me? HOW DID YOU CORRECT ME! by simply saying you correct me? you did not use any verse..Joseph had intimate relations with Mary after Jesus was born. He was her husband, what else could one expect?
Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not [this means he did not have relations with her] TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.
@gerryboy101 Jesus' unbelieving neighbors were amazed by his power because they knew his whole family--his mother, Joseph, his SISTERS, and his BROTHERS. When these unbelievers referred to Jesus' brothers and sisters they were in no wise referring to his disciples.
@JOAOBUNITAO They did not have a different term for our idea of brother as opposed to cousin.
In their day, having children was seen as a civic duty (unless a vow of virginity is made to God). In such an environment, Mary would not be surprised that she would give birth. Mary's reaction to Gabrielle's announcement only makes sense if Mary had taken a perpetual vow of virginity. Since such a vow is a dedication to God, pregnancy with Jesus the vow was still binding after his birth.
@sulkow82 The Catholic religion says the word translated "brother" should be "cousin". Wrong again. The word "cousin" is clearly found in the scripture and it means--you've got it--cousin!
Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. Luke 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.
@sulkow82 "only makes sense to assume" i love how this is a common catholic excuse when they use the bible its not an actual statement off the bible it clearly says mary had kids ...Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me....jesus said my "mothers children" his brothers and sister! so please you cant argue that it means cousin
The reason I say "react to" is simple. Show me how Mary could be surprised that she would have a son and use the reply "but I have not known man" meaning she was a virgin. Her reaction shows that she intended not to have children even after being married.
If you find "it only makes sense..." amusing, I find it amusing how some "born again" protestants ignore Scripture for their doctrines.
"hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." 2 Thes 2: 15.
@sulkow82 OH MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! by her reaction you assume a whole bunch of things! she was a virgin! thats why she was surprised! it has nothing to with anything else she had jesus as a virgin but after that she had kids and bible is very clear about that there is no reason to assume anything because the bible says she did have children after jesus and you have no biblical way to prove she didn't because it says she did
@sulkow82 so what if the bible says that! it doesn't say EVERY word by mouth is important! and look at what he says! "hold tradition witch were taught by US" jesus never said mary was a virgin he said his mother had kids and his apostles also said she had kids! so what are you talking about? they never thought it was alright to pray to her ether this is all tradition made by men and it would be a valid point to say word by is important but not if your traditions are bible contradictions!
@sulkow82 because she was a VIRGIN! "i have not know man" what does this mean she didn't have sex i ask you where does it say she never had sex after jesus? nowhere in the bible does it say that and you know that thats the reason you even use this part witch doesn't prove anything other than she was a virgin when she had jesus and thats not what are are arguing about so is that it do you have any biblical statement that says she remained a virgin or not? because i never found it
@JOAOBUNITAO Just as it doesn't say she was a virgin after marriage, so it doesn't say that she had sex. Why would she be shocked if she was going to? Gabrielle said that she was going to conceive and have a son. If she was planning on having children, then this would not have surprised her. Answer the question head on.
Also, those who are traditionally said to be Jesus' brothers show a different genealogy that Mary and Joseph's.
@sulkow82 what are you talking about you cannot prove it your making an assumption because of her reaction! what don't you get? she reacted that way because she was a virgin how you think some one would react if you told them they were going to have a kid if they never had sex ! and the bible does say she had kids and unlike you im going to quote things that prove she had kids and you don't have to read into the bible or make any assumptions! your argument is nonsense and doesn't even make sense
@sulkow82 Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. i want you to explain to me what my mothers children mean? and don't ignore this comment i want to see what excuse you could use! i mean there is nothing more clear than "my mothers children
@sulkow82 When I ran a search on "mother's children" I restricted it to the New Testament because you made a statement saying that Jesus said this. As for the Psalms making this comment, it is a prophecy on how the Nation of Israel would reject Christ.
@JOAOBUNITAO On Psalm 69, this wouldn't work. The James, etc. in the end did not reject Christ. So in that way the passage does not apply. Also the rejection by the "mother's children" talks about the Nation of Israel rejecting Christ. It has nothing to do with Christ's immediate biological family.
@sulkow82 where does it say he meant the nation of israel ....and what kind of excuse is that! yes in the end his brother did not reject him so what? but they did at one poing in time so it doesn't matter ! many people rejected him but in the end believed in him this does not change a single thing even some of his apostle didnt believe in him at first and its clear that he is talking about jesus's brothers when he said he was an alien to them !
@sulkow82 Mark 6:3 Is not this [referring to Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not HIS SISTERS here with us? And they were offended at him".John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him. "
The apostle Paul saw the Lord Jesus' half-brother James.
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
@sulkow82 so your saying the bible is lying ? what about when its talks about his neighbors! that knew his mother and his brothers and sisters! its obvious they lived together there is nothing biblicaly saying she died a virgin and yet i have provided many statements right off the bible thats says did have kids after jesus but you cannot even quote one thing from the scripture that suggest she didn't have kids so why don't you just admit your wrong because you can't prove otherwise...
@JOAOBUNITAO I'm not saying that the Bible is lying. I'm saying that when an apparent contradiction comes up like that, then it means that there is not enough information within Scripture to understand what the situation really is.
At the time that the texts were written, people took as obvious when has since then become obscure through the changing of cultures. This is if you go by the Sola Scriptura approach to the texts.
@sulkow82 Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not [this means he did not have relations with her] TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.
@JOAOBUNITAO You do not accept implied aspects from me so I do not accept implied from you. "First born son" means nothing. A son who is an only child is still a first born son. So, your comment means nothing.
@sulkow82 no it does not! think about it why would you be the first if none came after you? that doesnt even make sense! if he was the only son why would it say that when have you even heard someone say first born if that person was an only child i see no sense in that really i believe now your just being a little arrogant and refuse to see the trught even if someone smacked you across the face with it
@JOAOBUNITAO Simple I would be the "first born" even if no one came after me because I would still have the right to receive the blessing which was at issue between Jacob and Esau.
@sulkow82 that is exactly my point ! if your the only son of course you are the first born but the title "first born" is given because she had other sons and to be recongnized as the first he would be called the first born but if your the only son than your title should be the only son first in every sence of the word means some one came after is there any part of the bible that says someone is the first born son if hes an only child?
@JOAOBUNITAO My point on first born is it is silent on the issue of any siblings. If there are no siblings then first born is synonymous with only born. It is putting to much meaning into the title to see it as a statement on the issue of children. Scripture says that the first born which opens up the womb is holy unto God. It is not the existence of younger siblings which makes the first born male holy unto God. It is that he opened up the womb.
@sulkow82 my point is nowhere in the scripture does ever say to a only child hes the first born when someone is the only child his title is "the only child" name one time someone is named first born if hes the only kid there are more than enough evidence to prove she did have kids but you negate them all it doesnt matter what the bible say if your teaching say something else you will say anything to make the bible unworthy of authority...
@sulkow82 i hope im not sinning or saying this or judging you but i really think you've been fooled by the serpent many of catholic teachings is a contradiction in the bible like the part where its ok to make heavely pictures or statues like the part where you pray and worship mary and say she never sinned its all proven otherwise in the bible
@JOAOBUNITAO My point was saying when the author said Mary did not know Joseph until Jesus was born is only discussing Mary before the birth of Christ. I am saying that the author was ignoring the issue of any siblings after Jesus' birth.
@sulkow82 your argument doesnt even make sense! it clearly says this "joseph did not have (sex) with mary intill she gave birth to her first born" its clearly saying she never had sex intill she had jesus so what are you talking about?
@sulkow82 This Psalm is prophetic of Jesus. We know this because it is quoted as such in John 2:17 after jesus overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple read
“And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.” John 2:17
The “me” then in Psalm 69:8-9 pointed to Jesus Christ. The one who would be alien to his “mothers children”.
@JOAOBUNITAO My point on that is that literalist interpretation of Scripture has led you to an interpretation that specific passage was never meant to have.
@sulkow82 I’ve no doubt the Church does have excuses and explanations for their beliefs but their authority is floored because it is based on the claims of men. The Bible teaches that all authority is held within it’s pages “the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation” (2 Tim 3:15) and Psalm 118:8 tells us: “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man” – it is in the pages of the Bible that truth will be found and not in a church which has fallen
@JOAOBUNITAO I'm saying that the only place the Church has fallen is in your eyes. Not those of God. See Matt 16: 18. Also, Paul calls the Church the Pillar and bulwark of the Truth (not scripture). See 1Tim 3: 15.
@sulkow82 If your parents do not have any other children then you are the “only child” and not the “firstborn child”. Again just a look at some examples in the Bible is enough to prove it. Isaac was the only son of Abraham and Sarah. When God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac here is what He told him:
Genesis 22:2
"Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."
@JOAOBUNITAO I said the two are synonymous. That means you can use either/ or. To accept your interpretation,I would need a passage out of the Bible which says that an only child saying that they are "first born" would be guilty of lying.
@sulkow82 its a title! it has nothing to do with lies or not it has to do with title! but really thats your argument? im really done with you im not going to sit here while you pick apart the bible for the sake of your "holy tradition" you have been clearly been beaten because i use the bible and all you do is pick it apart and when you use it its something that you would have to assume because you never quote something off the bat you always read into it and find holes to prove ur right
@sulkow82 lets make one thing clear the bible never says anything about mary being a virgin forever she never said it herself either nobody said it many things prove she wasnt even though you find all the excuse in the word for not believing it...but think about it she was married to joseph its completly natural that she would have sexual relations with him
@JOAOBUNITAO Prove that "me" was meant to be a statement on the size of Christ's earthly family as opposed to a statement that the Nation of Israel would reject him. Prove that to the same degree you want me to prove my point.
James who is listed as "brother of the Lord" is listed as son of Alpheus. In Matt 27: 56 there is a list of those looking from afar. Mary is listed as the mother of James, Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. This must be a different Mary because Mary the mother of Lord went right up to the Cross
@sulkow82 lets make sure of one thing nowhere in the bible does it say she died a virgin but there are at least ten that says she had kids and jesus had half brothers.... how about when jesus said he became a alien to his "mother's children" that is my favorite because jesus said it himself try to negate that
@JOAOBUNITAO "mother's children" I use a copy of the Revised Standard Version. I searched a website which is an online copy of this translation using "mother's children" as the search string. Nothing came up. I will need an exact citation to look up for me to respond.
@sulkow82 fine i will do what you ask but then what? if it remains how it is you will only find a way to negate the bible because that is what catholics are thought catholics werent even allowed to read the bible in the dark ages and i've read this in history books the first man to translate the bible was excuted by the catholics your people used the your religion to kill thousands you let the devil twist the word of god your people adore mary and you worship statues and use paintings of heaven!
@sulkow82 Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented without any biblical basis. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary.
@JOAOBUNITAO I said that Mary's reaction only makes sense if she had made such a vow. I never said it was in scripture. Now follow your own standards to me. You made a claim that Jesus said he became an alien to his mother's children. Follow your own standards and give me the citation.
@gerryboy101 Mark 6:3 Is not this [referring to Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not HIS SISTERS here with us? And they were offended at him".John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him. "
The apostle Paul saw the Lord Jesus' half-brother James.
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
@gerryboy101 Doubtless she was one of the noblest ladies ever to grace this planet; nevertheless, she was not without sin (cf. 1 John 1:8, 10).
and they say she never sinned! and praying to her is a sin your praying to her to get to god you putting her in jesus place "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," it clearly says jesus is the only one not mary and jesus!
@gerryboy101 Most striking of all is the way Jesus intentionally deflects a certain kind of honor from his mother. Once a woman in the crowd “raised her voice and said to him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!’” But Jesus replied, “on the contrary Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” (Luke 11:27–28). Jesus ranks obedience to the word of God above the special veneration of his mother.
@JOAOBUNITAO you are completely mistaken. if i ask you to pray with me and for me, is that a sin? NO it is not. i asked you what church you go to and where do you take communion?? i am curious.....
@gerryboy101 notice i argue using the bible and all you do is ramble like i said we are arguing about the bible why aren't you curious about the bible saying mary did not die a virgin? even thou catholics say she did you completly ran away from the fact that i proved you wrong by using scripture
@johnthreesixteen316 I see Sola Scriptura as a paradox. "everything needed for salvation is contained therein... no other texts are needed." Yet the Bible teaches that Councils (by example through the Council of Jerusalem) are a valid and binding way of teaching. It's there in the book of Acts. Look to what the Council of Jerusalem teaches and then research if St. Paul and/or the other Apostles advanced teachings which only go as far back as that Council.
hahahahahaha A CATHOLIC QUOTING THE BIBLE! this man talks about "what jesus said" tell me where did jesus say it was ok to adore and pray to mary because everytime he had a chance he spoke out against it and the whole bible is centered around not giving and glory,praise or adoration to anybody other than god ..For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, praying to mary is heresy and this is not a personal opinion its in the bible..
@JOAOBUNITAO After you are finished laughing at the fact that I quoted the Bible, could you actually respond to the point I made in my post. Hint: I was talking about the fact that Sola Scriptura is a paradox. Before you can talk about the Catholic honoring of Mary, (for the sake of this discussion) you have to prove that Scripture said to only look to Scripture for spiritual teachings.
@sulkow82 i though i went over this with you .... the bible is the most pure avalible teaching so if the bible says what you do is wrong but you call it "holy tradition" who wins? to you its your "tradition" but to real christians its the bible i think what your thinking is your teachings is like a add on to the bible and what i keep trying to explain but your brain washed by the serpent is that your tradition directly contridict the bible it doesnt matter what bible says you will negate it ....
@JOAOBUNITAO You never responded to my first post about the Council of Jerusalem. I am flat out saying that the Bible condemns Sola Scriptura as against the will of God. Show me where the Bible mandates using Scripture alone.
Great video.
mathew1713 3 weeks ago
Roman Catholicism denies the Gospel by saying that faith is necessary but not sufficient. Faith is sufficient for salvation which leads to good works (Eph. 2:8-10).
JasonStephens7 3 months ago
Exellent Catholic aplogetics. My God bless you through your efforts to share the one true faith!
Denis4truth 4 months ago
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(1)Vatican catechism 1260 "Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved" How can ANY believer in Christ support this heresy ?Christ is the only way , truth and light !!! (2)total misrepresentation of the bible: How can the RCC claim that you can only be saved if you are baptized ? What about the man next to Jesus on the cross ? Was he baptized ? No.Thats why we need SS
davidanful 5 months ago
Both, Protestants and Catholics, PLEASE Type "LUTHER'S BIBLE" in Google & check out the RESULTS !! For accuracy, and the REAL TRUTH, read AND print the WIKIPEDIA HISTORICAL version {evidence} !!!
Also, wouldn't it be AWESOME if Catholics & Protestants became ONE??!! We could change the whole WORLD !! Peace.
Rufo De Souza.
rufodsouza 5 months ago
In a sense one can say the existence of the Roman Catholic Church has helped preserve the canon of Scripture, but it is utterly false to credit this religious institution with developing and creating it. Ask yourself this question: Were the books of the NT authoritative before the church council that formed the canon? Certainly. These councils only affirmed what was already known.
HiDefJesus 5 months ago
@HiDefJesus very true, but without that confirmation, what good were they? what good would it be to be inspired and authoritative, but not recognized as such, or to be in company with innumerable other contradictory works? to this day nearly every Christian accepts the cannon of the bible very nearly as the Church laid it down over a millennium and a half ago, even if they deny the authority of the Church to do just that. without the Church, there would be no (one) recognizable "Bible."
minion451 5 months ago
@HiDefJesus
>>>Ask yourself this question: Were the books of the NT authoritative before the church council that formed the canon?
That is only true to a degree. Gradually by the first part of the 4th century about 20 of the 27 books were considered inspired. That left a myriad of others, of which some were widely deemed authorative and used in churches. It took decades for the other 7 to be agreed upon and deemed canonical, leaving serveral not making the cut. Including the Didache!
182RG 5 months ago
@182RG You seem to have missed the implication of my question. Was the Gospel of John authoritative the moment John wrote it or only after it was deemed authoritative by men?
HiDefJesus 5 months ago
Comment removed
182RG 4 months ago
HidefJesus
As it turns out, it was authoritative when he wrote it.
But that's irrelevant - The problem was that many books were considered inspired by some, but not others. Many congregations were using several writings that were later deemed non-canonic, and rejecting inspired works - possibly even the gospel of John that you mention - and preaching false and incomplete gospel. THAT was the importance of the determination of canon
182RG 4 months ago
@182RG Who determined the canon?
HiDefJesus 4 months ago
@HiDefJesus Catholic church councils determined the canon. Study history.
catchzz 2 months ago
@catchzz You're the one who needs to study history. My question was partly rhetorical. The canon was may have been officially recognized by some council, but these councils did not determine it. Here is another question: Who/what makes these books authoritative? Surely you don't believe that a council does.
astralharmony 2 months ago
@astralharmony I have studied history which is why I know there is one true church. Why dont you answer your own question. I already did answer it since the church is authoritative as handed over by Christ and by Her binding authority declared the inspired canon. So what in your mind makes the books authoritative and be sure that you are NOT using circular logic.
catchzz 2 months ago
well done
brucefetter 6 months ago
The true church of Jesus Christ is a relationship, not a membership. It isn’t any particular protestant denomination or Roman catholic. It doesn't have a roof or an address. We are the Body of Christ, past, present and future from all around the world who have accepted Christ’s work on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, once and for all. Our names have been written in the Book of Life from the beginning. 1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given.
johnthreesixteen316 6 months ago
@johnthreesixteen316 You keep on spreading your ignorance. Jesus Christ founded a church, ONE church, not of a building but of ONE solid doctrine to be guided by ONE shepherd where there is ONE flock believing in ONE truth. Regardless of the nonsense you spread about relationship/membership there is one truth of Christ found in the church He established during His time here on earth to carry out ONE truth for all generations.
Dont post on Catholic videos if you dont like them.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz Hello friend. There is no ignorance. Christ is our shepherd and we are His flock, the body of Christ who have accepted His sacrifice on the cross. We are His church. Ask Christ to be your saviour today.
johnthreesixteen316 6 months ago
@johnthreesixteen316 I will keep you in my prayers that you join the church, & let the holy spirit open your eyes to truth. Its sadly evdient you have no clue about scriptures, the church, nor Christian history.
To be deep in history refutes your idiotic claims that Christ's body is divided by the fragments of protestants & lone ranger Christians. As Christ demands, you need to find the church. Believers can be outside the church.
John 10:16 - Find the one flock guided by one shepherd.
catchzz 6 months ago
A few problems w/ 4IDHero below
Gods Word isnt just confined to paper, its alive & well within His church.
Non-Catholic's never define Sola Scriptura the same way. Never have I heard this definition- "what God says is FINAL, and authoritative." It can be difficult to refute a moving target when believers in Sola Scriptura have different understanding of it.
Acknowledging SS's falsehood is NOT a denial of Scripture.
The contradiction concept presented below is a complete farce.
catchzz 6 months ago
Actually Catholics claim that Sola Scriptura is self-refuting because it doesn't teach it in the Bible. That is a contradiction, not a self-refutation. What is self-refuting is Catholics denial of Sola Scriptura, on the simple reason that SS itself doesn't teach SS. The authority of God's word is normative, with that in mind, along with Jesus' appeal to "it is written" and Paul's distinction between God's word and the wisdom of man in 1 Corin. 2.; we can conclude SS deductively.
4IDHero 6 months ago
Sola Scriptura simply says "what God says is FINAL, and authoritative." I disagree with your description in the video, "the lack of a normative standard means..." Why rule out God's word as lack of a normative standard? Why wouldn't the authority of God's word by considered "normative standard?" The Bible doesn't teach SS, but isn't listening to God's word an OBVIOUS rule of faith? It's like saying, Prof. So and so teaches that Prof. So and so doesn't teach. SS is an obvious rule of faith.
4IDHero 6 months ago
@4IDHero Hello friend. I agree. Something has to be the measuring stick by which all things are judged. And that measuring stick is God's Word, not man-made traditions.
johnthreesixteen316 6 months ago
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I know a great website that details the Catholic Catechism and the Bible. whateverycatholicshouldknowDOTCOM
-God bless
clintmmartin 7 months ago
Csmatyi's reasoning is completely illogical. Within the same conversation he denies the scriptural evidence of the pope. When asked to produce his evidence of an "invisible church" he tells me the word Trinity is not found in scripture either. That fact is elementary which we all know, but his logic is clearly that elementary to suit his own needs. I guess csmatyi is the infallible interpretor of scripture able to deduce all implicit teachings & Christ build his church on the rock of csmatyi!
catchzz 7 months ago
@catchzz Hello friend. There is no scriptural evidence for a pope. "for thou art petros, and upon this petra". The church is built upon Peter's confession of faith as to who he believed Christ was. Christ is the rock.
johnthreesixteen316 6 months ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Too bad there have been whole books written that refute your elementary claim.
Christ is the head of the church where the rock was entrusted to Peter.
catchzz 6 months ago
I would like all to know the video linked to this from csmatyi is created by a complete coward who cannot defend his own heresy & would rather resort to misconceptions & lies to spread his hatred for Catholics. Only a coward would rather ban someone engaging in a conversation asking the tough questions. Its not worth your time to view a video that cannot produce 1 passage from scripture saying its the highest authority. Usually a conversation bears some fruit, but this guy is a lost cause.
catchzz 7 months ago
@2000YearsOfTradition Did you know that the Bible CONDEMNS a majority of tradition in the Catholic Church.
Danielezerable 7 months ago
SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Danielezerable 7 months ago
@RebornInOnesDeath Jesus had authority from GOD to interpret the Old Testament, and preach His ministry. YOU, however, DO NOT have such authority!
Christ gave us the Catholic Church in Matthew 16:18 to continue to be His representative on Earth and continue His ministry. 2000 years of History confirm this.
Catholics believe that only the Church has authority to interpret Scripture: Protestants believe that EVERYONE has authority - this is an erroneous heresy and has led to Moral Relativism.
drdst17 7 months ago
This guy has no idea what he's talking about.
PSUIVERSON 8 months ago
@PSUIVERSON This Guy Knows Exactly What He's Talking About.
you on the other hand ..
2000YearsOfTradition 7 months ago
@RebornInOnesDeath Jesus did not practice Sola Scriptura. John 10:22-23 is based off of 1 Maccabees and is not found in the Protestant Bible which would mean he practiced Sola Scriptura according to the Protestant Bible. Matthew 23:2-3 is not found in the Bible, but Jesus quoted it.
zifnab2100 8 months ago
@325nicaea
Yes, but what I'm saying is that exclusively practicing 'Believer's Baptism' is the innovation.
Reazzurro90 8 months ago
"The heresy of Sola Scriptura"...unbelievable!!!! How could Sola Scriptura be Heresy.
You believe all 4 of the Marian Dogma and you call sola scriptura heresy? What do you think about the 5th dogma? Its on the way. "The apparition" wants it and that is who is being served in all of this. The catholic church has opened up a lot of people to deception. (1 Timothy 4:1) This apparition is NOT scriptural in any way. In church approved visions "SHE" has said she is the only one who can help.
dancer1563 9 months ago
@dancer1563 The church has the authority, yours doesn't. Man made religion will keep dividing the body of Christ because of Sola Scriptura. That in itself is a HERESY.
Naturalhit 9 months ago
@dancer1563
When did the Church say it will approve a fifth dogma based on an apparition?
Reazzurro90 8 months ago
For I call as witnesses all listeners of the words of the prophecy of THIS BOOK. If anyone will have added to these, God will add upon him the afflictions written in THIS BOOK.
And if anyone will have taken away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion from the Book of Life, and from the Holy City, and from these things which have been written in THIS BOOK. (Ap 22:18-19, Catholic PDV)
Is impossible to a non-regenerated man to understand it...
marcelobetel 10 months ago
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Satan, the murderer & father of LIES, took 2/3 of the Angels with him to Hell ! Luther has done the SAME ! 2/3's of the True Belivers, Christians, SOULS have been ruined by this one 'fallen' man!! Wake Up, dear Protestant brothers & sisters !! 38 thousand Denominations VERSUS only " ONE " CATHOLIC CHURCH ??!! What 'more' proof would seek, after this STARK REALITY ???
rufodsouza 10 months ago
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Satan, the murderer & father of LIES, took 2/3 of the Angels with him to Hell ! Luther has done the SAME ! 2/3's of the True Belivers, Christians, SOULS have been ruined by this one 'fallen' man!! Wake Up, dear Protestant brothers & sisters !! 38 thousand Denominations VERSUS only " ONE " CATHOLIC CHURCH ??!! What 'more' proof would seek, after this STARK REALITY ???
rufodsouza 10 months ago
Satan, the murderer & father of LIES, took 2/3 of the Angels with him to Hell ! Luther has done the SAME ! 2/3's of the True Belivers, Christians, SOULS have been ruined by this one 'fallen' man!! Wake Up, dear Protestant brothers & sisters !! 38 thousand Denominations VERSUS only " ONE " CATHOLIC CHURCH ??!! What 'more' proof would seek, after this STARK REALITY ???
rufodsouza 10 months ago
the only thing that gets in the way of the truth is palo's ego... for some reason he thinks he is right & everyone else is wrong.....if the church keeps to its oral traditions then one should clarify the origins..
MrLoudmouthspeaker 11 months ago
@paleocrat....brother, thank you so much for your videos. The fact you were once Protestant and now Catholic helps to bridge the theological gap between both groups of Christians. Honestly, it's because of people like you that I have a better appreciation and understanding of Protestant theology because you break it down pretty simple for us. If only our Protestant brethren knew that their churches started after October 31, 1517, then we could probably have a better understanding of our rift.
LatinRiteChristian 1 year ago
We cannot put "tradition" above the scriptures and the witness of the holy spirit in our lives. If we do, we get awful doctrine like infant baptism or confession. Nowhere in the bible does it mention anything about that. I'm not saying it has to for it to be the true way. But I am saying the bible makes many claims about baptism being for grown people as an outward expression of their inward salvation from God. Those claims cannot be dismissed. If you put the tradition above them, you're wrong.
1logan2 1 year ago
@1logan2
Infant baptism was practiced from the beginning and is also scriptural. Believer's baptism is the innovation.
Reazzurro90 9 months ago
Christ died so that we could live. His death made him the one and only mediator between us and the Father. Show me biblically where there is any need for a confessor. Also show me biblically where there is any mention of the apocryphal books.All through the bible there are mentions of other books, but never once an apocryphal book.On sola scriptura, the bible gives us doctrine on things it mentions. However,it is not the sole authority. God is the sole authority. Not the papacy or church.
1logan2 1 year ago
the catholic and orthodox churches carry the truth and keys to heaven. ALL other churches are man made and if your church has no bishop, it is heretical and has no authority. i'm sorry but i tell the truth. research your own church in google and read when and WHO founded your church. read and research, it's easy. i don't want to offend anyone. sorry
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 When a Catholic opens their Bible they will never find Jesus in or near a Catholic church. When they open their Bible they will learn that Jesus was not a Catholic and was not the founder of the Catholic religion. They learn the word "Catholic" is not in the Bible. They then learn the Catholic church took up the name "Catholic" from Latin which means "universal."The Catholic church claims it is "universal" or world wide.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 When Catholics discover this is false, that Jesus started a Jewish religion, they soon learn the Catholic church is not Jewish at all but is Gentile owned, Gentile operated, and a Gentile controlled business enterprise whose product is paganized religion
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew, as were His disciples. He never told them to start a new religion, He told them to continue on with Judaism and to tell the Gospel (Good News) of the Messiah.
It was the early popes, namely Constantine, who started a new religion, packing Paganism into it in order to get Pagans to go along with it. And every protestant church now, is a spin-off from the original Catholic church. this prove how little knowledge you have
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO you're saying a lot of silly things. i'm not sure where to start. i'll address this constantine issue. he was not the founder of the cahtolic church. the term catholic church was used in the 1st century. read ignatius of antioch for this proof. also i am not attacking you. i pointed out that your church was founded by a man. go look it up and research it. you're saying a lot of things and attacking jesus church. think about it for a sec. why are you so against the church?
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURE DOES IT SAY JESUS STARTED CATHOLIC RELIGION! i want you to quote something from the bible that even remotely says catholics was the first christianity!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO the bible does not use the word catholic just like it does not use trinity etc. peter was the 1st pope in a long succession of popes. you mentioned that the worship of mary added later. please use the word "veneration" and please research the word "annunciation" cahtolics and orthodox recognized mary since the earliest says. i have an analogy for you. if i were in your home (assuming you live with mom) i would respect your mother. if you are in jesus church would you respect his mom
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 nice one.... RESPECT! i do respect her respect and adoration are two complete different things! he never taught people to worship her or pray to her or adore her he never gave her title of "queen of heaven" she had no divine power and once in the bible where she was praised he deflected it and said to praise the lord the whole bible is based upon the teaching to give all adoration and glory to god that is a contradiction to mary the co remptrix! thats demonic!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 Contrary to the fanciful human imaginations, the Bible teaches that Jesus is the mediator of the new coventant (Hebrews 12:24); He is the door to salvation (John 10:9);and all God's grace and kindness are given "through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:7); no-one is saved through Mary; all are saved who call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13). if mary was so important to how we worship why is it never mentioned in the bible? if she so important why isn't she mentioned after jesus dies
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” 28But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” jesus nor his apostle ever say to adore her and give her glory ! giving any human glory its strongly against the bible i don't see why catholics follow it your traditions are no more powerful than god's!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 jesus? church? jesus would not let pedofiles run loose in his church ! many things the catholics believe its a contradiction the bible and they make no excuse for it ! many even dont try to argue it because they have no evidence that their teaching is just because the bible says it isn't but yet they believe their traditions are the path! jesus and his apostles gave us what we needed everything else is just been added on by catholics and not approved from jesus or his apostles
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 the bible is the last teachings from jesus and his apostles! and yet look how catholics defend this! they quote the bible saying tradions from the apostle was important ! and they were! but none of saw what they were! the catholic tradition about mary was added way after the apostles had died! so how could they have begun it! look at the assumption of mary ! it was add on 1950 purgatory was declared in 1274 a.d !
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
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"You shall do homage to the Lord your God; Him alone shall you adore." you adore and worship mary! jesus and his apostle spoke out against anything of that nature! Luke 11:27 As he was speaking, a woman in the crowd called out, "God bless your mother--the womb from which you came, and the breasts that nursed you!" ! Jesus replied, He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
God's Word contains the gospel of Christ. It contains how the church should be organized. It tells us what we have to do in order to be saved. The catholic church allowed people who lived 200-400 yrs after Christ and the apostles to determine their doctrine. They forbid some of their priests to marry. I Tim. 4:1-4 There has been problems with pedophilia among some of their priests. the incidents number in the thousands. In their history, they have burned thousands at the stake
horseman528 1 year ago
WHAT ABOUT JESUS,
WHAT ABOUT JESUS
WHAT ABOUT JESUS
999Thip 1 year ago
@999Thip
What about him?
Cookaloka 1 year ago
i understand the church to be the body of believers, not a specific denomination
cruiscinlan 1 year ago
@cruiscinlan You have to see it that way, otherwise if you are outside the true church, then what?
jdangiel 1 year ago
Mark 7:6-8
6 And he said to them,"Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,"'This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
7 in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men."
Christ's Glory and the Prophetic Word
2 Peter 1:16-21
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, bu
slightstrider 1 year ago
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Forgiveness is the removal of a debt owed. If I do you harm, you can choose to forgive the debt that I owe you because of the damage I did. Thus, you can forgive me. "And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us" and he was talking to his apostles witch wrote the bible and are believed to be inspired by god himself he did not tell this to priest HE SAID "only god can forgive sins" please explain this part of the scripture?
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this!
God bless you and yours =]
AkhilleusWeeps 1 year ago
One of the best evidences that Catholics are not true believers is the great number of them who become the strongest proponents of atheism.
markpianoman 1 year ago
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Without sola scriptura we have no certain, absolute truth by which we can defend our faith. No absolute to judge false doctrine. No confidence in any salvation. If the Bible isn't the authority, we have nothing.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
what came first? a) scripture b) the church
answer: b) before a)
the church wrote and compiled the bible. without the church you have no bible.
gerryboy101 1 year ago
The sola scriptura debate is a moot one. Why, because everything we need to know regarding our salvation is contained within the Bible. The Bible alone is sufficient. No other texts, references or traditions of men is needed. 2 Timothy 3:15.....”And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 2 timothy 3:15 you will see that Paul is talking about scripture that Timothy knew since infancy, the Old Testament. You have just proved that you do not need the New Testament.
You need to understand what you are reading.
gerryboy101 1 year ago
Amen!
I had never looked at the verse that way, thank you for that small bit of apologetics =]
AkhilleusWeeps 1 year ago
@AkhilleusWeeps no probs. peace be with you
gerryboy101 1 year ago
catholics pray to mary and the bible speak out about it and you worship her she is your godess you are not christian for you only follow whats covenient for them "why doth this man think he can forgive sins? only GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS"
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO we ask mary to pray for us. do you not ask others to pray for or with you? you care not and respect not the mother of jesus. she even said that generations after would call her blessed. do you call her blessed?? NO you don't. therefore the scripture does not pertain to you. only catholics and orthodox call her blessed. your comments are silly. and yes YOU don't call her blessed. no respect for Jesus mother. shameful
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 whats silly is your ignorance do you even know what blessed is? many of god followers in the bible are referred to as "blessed" if someone is blessed doesn't mean you should adore them because only god deserves adoration mary is trully blessed and all christian should admire her relationship with god but this does not mean we should WORSHIP HER! because its against the teachings and what makes you think mary has any divine power to hear the prayers of a billion people shes not god
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 lol i think its hilarious that every catholic uses the same excuse you want to know the biggest difference between asking someone you know to pray with you? they are alive! the bible states not to pray to angels and what do you do?praying to anybody besides god is against the scripture and catholic teachings say mary remained a virgin! and many times in the bible it says otherwise jesus had more than one brother..
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO of course she is not God. we do not worship her. we venerate her. we do not ask mary to forgive our sins, we ask her to pray for us. the term is called "intercession". you do not call her blessed (fact). catholics and orthodox do (in prayer) as well as reference to her. your words are simply anti catholic. may i ask where you take communion? what church do you go to?
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 what difference does it make where im from? that just proves you cannot keep up with the argument and you want to get personal making statues and art of heaven is also forbidden ..your praying to her it doesn't matter how you want to get around it its a form of worship what makes you think she has the power to hear the prayers of a billion people at the same time? ONLY GOD has the power to hear all our prayers you are giving her his glory
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO it matters, because your church taught you biblical doctrine. for some reason you won't tell me what church you go to. that is odd. i am catholic and not afraid to say it. what church do you belong to? where do you take communion? i am curious...
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 joseph was widowed and had children. mary was and is a perpetual virgin. easily researchable. may i ask what church do you belong to?
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 joseph was not JESUS'S FATHER so therefore he would not be brother to joseph son
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 im a born again christian and my church didn't teach me i read it and spoke with many christians and i used to be catholics i was raised catholic but i repent so did all my family
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 im done with you ...you chose your faith you choose the word of man over the word of god and the word of jesus and his apostles it doesn't matter what the bible says or doesn't say the fact remains you will always think thats the catholic teachings is more important than the word of jesus and his diciples witch are in the the bible your traditions is not given by jesus himself every time someone honored his mother he deflected and said honor his father no adoration goes to her
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO sorry for the late reply. actually the truth is. Your church that taught you biblical doctrine was founded by a man after the year 1500. You are of the flock of that man. You can prove this easily to yourself using any browser or at the local library. My church was founded by God in the year 33. Jesus Christ. your church is heretical and founded by a man. this is the truth. go research it for yourself. peace be with you
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 your church was founded by jesus? ahahahahaha oh boy thats a good one if your church was founded by jesus why do you believe in things that are contrary to what he said?
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO jesus founded the church and gave keys to peter. the church and doctrine you follow was founded by a man after the year 1500. your views of biblical doctrine was formed at that time. your church is heretical and has no bishop. your church has no authority. it was man made and you are the flock product of that church. i tell you the truth. research it for yourself. i'm being 100% honest with you. the catholic and orthodox churchs carry the truth and authority. your church is from man
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 lol see you gave to biblical text but what you did is personally attack me like i been saying you would these things that are in my bible is in yours as well my church didn't buy it for me i got it in a store before i' even joined the church i used to be catholic and i know what goes on there things statue worship we used to march with a mary statue and people used to touch it and they though it would give them luck or cure their illness my church has the authority over our people
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 were talking about biblical text and how you don't use it catholic teachings are contradiction to the bible my teaching have nothing to do with it for we use the bible as a way of life and none of our tradition is banned in the bible i think your confusing the true word of god with the church authority and their 2 different things that have nothing to do with this argument even the bible it self said... its better to trust in god then in men! and what do you do the exact opposite
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 When Catholics open their eyes and see that the Catholic church has adopted many pagan and heathen celebrations and practices and adapted these to Christian teachings, they know they have to leave. No, they know they have to run! It is right here, they know Jesus Christ was not the founder of the Catholic church. Because Jesus would not start a Church and then allow the gates of hell to conquer it by adopting pagan religious practices.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO jesus started his church with peter and that church still exists today. you are trying to tear it down but you can't the cahtolic church will always be here and always be strong. many have tried but all have failed. the catholic church is jesus church, don't be against it. don't mock it. you are playing into the hands of separatists and men.
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 look at what the bible says! the gates of hell shall not stain his church! one would be a complete fool to think he was talking about catholics look at history you people have murdered thousands using your faith as an excuse you churches authority is a joke look at history "with this rock" he was talking about jesus he was the foundation he was not talking about a specific church your belief that catholics are the chose religion is far fetched and not in the scripture
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO mary remained a virgin. sorry to correct you. and asking mary to pray for us is not a sin. asking our brothers to pray for us is not a sin. catholics do not believe mary is dead. we believe she is alive with jesus her son.
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 correct me? HOW DID YOU CORRECT ME! by simply saying you correct me? you did not use any verse..Joseph had intimate relations with Mary after Jesus was born. He was her husband, what else could one expect?
Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not [this means he did not have relations with her] TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 Jesus' unbelieving neighbors were amazed by his power because they knew his whole family--his mother, Joseph, his SISTERS, and his BROTHERS. When these unbelievers referred to Jesus' brothers and sisters they were in no wise referring to his disciples.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO They did not have a different term for our idea of brother as opposed to cousin.
In their day, having children was seen as a civic duty (unless a vow of virginity is made to God). In such an environment, Mary would not be surprised that she would give birth. Mary's reaction to Gabrielle's announcement only makes sense if Mary had taken a perpetual vow of virginity. Since such a vow is a dedication to God, pregnancy with Jesus the vow was still binding after his birth.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 The Catholic religion says the word translated "brother" should be "cousin". Wrong again. The word "cousin" is clearly found in the scripture and it means--you've got it--cousin!
Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. Luke 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 "only makes sense to assume" i love how this is a common catholic excuse when they use the bible its not an actual statement off the bible it clearly says mary had kids ...Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me....jesus said my "mothers children" his brothers and sister! so please you cant argue that it means cousin
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO Now respond to my Sola Scriptura comment and my comment about Mary's reaction to the angel Gabrielle.
sulkow82 1 year ago
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sulkow82 1 year ago
The reason I say "react to" is simple. Show me how Mary could be surprised that she would have a son and use the reply "but I have not known man" meaning she was a virgin. Her reaction shows that she intended not to have children even after being married.
If you find "it only makes sense..." amusing, I find it amusing how some "born again" protestants ignore Scripture for their doctrines.
"hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." 2 Thes 2: 15.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 OH MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! by her reaction you assume a whole bunch of things! she was a virgin! thats why she was surprised! it has nothing to with anything else she had jesus as a virgin but after that she had kids and bible is very clear about that there is no reason to assume anything because the bible says she did have children after jesus and you have no biblical way to prove she didn't because it says she did
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 so what if the bible says that! it doesn't say EVERY word by mouth is important! and look at what he says! "hold tradition witch were taught by US" jesus never said mary was a virgin he said his mother had kids and his apostles also said she had kids! so what are you talking about? they never thought it was alright to pray to her ether this is all tradition made by men and it would be a valid point to say word by is important but not if your traditions are bible contradictions!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 because she was a VIRGIN! "i have not know man" what does this mean she didn't have sex i ask you where does it say she never had sex after jesus? nowhere in the bible does it say that and you know that thats the reason you even use this part witch doesn't prove anything other than she was a virgin when she had jesus and thats not what are are arguing about so is that it do you have any biblical statement that says she remained a virgin or not? because i never found it
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO Just as it doesn't say she was a virgin after marriage, so it doesn't say that she had sex. Why would she be shocked if she was going to? Gabrielle said that she was going to conceive and have a son. If she was planning on having children, then this would not have surprised her. Answer the question head on.
Also, those who are traditionally said to be Jesus' brothers show a different genealogy that Mary and Joseph's.
Lastly, don't use the Lord's name in vain.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 what are you talking about you cannot prove it your making an assumption because of her reaction! what don't you get? she reacted that way because she was a virgin how you think some one would react if you told them they were going to have a kid if they never had sex ! and the bible does say she had kids and unlike you im going to quote things that prove she had kids and you don't have to read into the bible or make any assumptions! your argument is nonsense and doesn't even make sense
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. i want you to explain to me what my mothers children mean? and don't ignore this comment i want to see what excuse you could use! i mean there is nothing more clear than "my mothers children
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
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sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 When I ran a search on "mother's children" I restricted it to the New Testament because you made a statement saying that Jesus said this. As for the Psalms making this comment, it is a prophecy on how the Nation of Israel would reject Christ.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO On Psalm 69, this wouldn't work. The James, etc. in the end did not reject Christ. So in that way the passage does not apply. Also the rejection by the "mother's children" talks about the Nation of Israel rejecting Christ. It has nothing to do with Christ's immediate biological family.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 where does it say he meant the nation of israel ....and what kind of excuse is that! yes in the end his brother did not reject him so what? but they did at one poing in time so it doesn't matter ! many people rejected him but in the end believed in him this does not change a single thing even some of his apostle didnt believe in him at first and its clear that he is talking about jesus's brothers when he said he was an alien to them !
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO I'm waiting for those Bible verses.
sulkow82 1 year ago
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@sulkow82 Mark 6:3 Is not this [referring to Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not HIS SISTERS here with us? And they were offended at him".John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him. "
The apostle Paul saw the Lord Jesus' half-brother James.
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 so your saying the bible is lying ? what about when its talks about his neighbors! that knew his mother and his brothers and sisters! its obvious they lived together there is nothing biblicaly saying she died a virgin and yet i have provided many statements right off the bible thats says did have kids after jesus but you cannot even quote one thing from the scripture that suggest she didn't have kids so why don't you just admit your wrong because you can't prove otherwise...
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO I'm not saying that the Bible is lying. I'm saying that when an apparent contradiction comes up like that, then it means that there is not enough information within Scripture to understand what the situation really is.
At the time that the texts were written, people took as obvious when has since then become obscure through the changing of cultures. This is if you go by the Sola Scriptura approach to the texts.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not [this means he did not have relations with her] TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO You do not accept implied aspects from me so I do not accept implied from you. "First born son" means nothing. A son who is an only child is still a first born son. So, your comment means nothing.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 no it does not! think about it why would you be the first if none came after you? that doesnt even make sense! if he was the only son why would it say that when have you even heard someone say first born if that person was an only child i see no sense in that really i believe now your just being a little arrogant and refuse to see the trught even if someone smacked you across the face with it
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO Simple I would be the "first born" even if no one came after me because I would still have the right to receive the blessing which was at issue between Jacob and Esau.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 that is exactly my point ! if your the only son of course you are the first born but the title "first born" is given because she had other sons and to be recongnized as the first he would be called the first born but if your the only son than your title should be the only son first in every sence of the word means some one came after is there any part of the bible that says someone is the first born son if hes an only child?
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO My point on first born is it is silent on the issue of any siblings. If there are no siblings then first born is synonymous with only born. It is putting to much meaning into the title to see it as a statement on the issue of children. Scripture says that the first born which opens up the womb is holy unto God. It is not the existence of younger siblings which makes the first born male holy unto God. It is that he opened up the womb.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 my point is nowhere in the scripture does ever say to a only child hes the first born when someone is the only child his title is "the only child" name one time someone is named first born if hes the only kid there are more than enough evidence to prove she did have kids but you negate them all it doesnt matter what the bible say if your teaching say something else you will say anything to make the bible unworthy of authority...
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 i hope im not sinning or saying this or judging you but i really think you've been fooled by the serpent many of catholic teachings is a contradiction in the bible like the part where its ok to make heavely pictures or statues like the part where you pray and worship mary and say she never sinned its all proven otherwise in the bible
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 im guessing that "till" is not to be there huh?
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO My point was saying when the author said Mary did not know Joseph until Jesus was born is only discussing Mary before the birth of Christ. I am saying that the author was ignoring the issue of any siblings after Jesus' birth.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 your argument doesnt even make sense! it clearly says this "joseph did not have (sex) with mary intill she gave birth to her first born" its clearly saying she never had sex intill she had jesus so what are you talking about?
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 This Psalm is prophetic of Jesus. We know this because it is quoted as such in John 2:17 after jesus overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple read
“And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.” John 2:17
The “me” then in Psalm 69:8-9 pointed to Jesus Christ. The one who would be alien to his “mothers children”.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO My point on that is that literalist interpretation of Scripture has led you to an interpretation that specific passage was never meant to have.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 I’ve no doubt the Church does have excuses and explanations for their beliefs but their authority is floored because it is based on the claims of men. The Bible teaches that all authority is held within it’s pages “the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation” (2 Tim 3:15) and Psalm 118:8 tells us: “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man” – it is in the pages of the Bible that truth will be found and not in a church which has fallen
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO I'm saying that the only place the Church has fallen is in your eyes. Not those of God. See Matt 16: 18. Also, Paul calls the Church the Pillar and bulwark of the Truth (not scripture). See 1Tim 3: 15.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 here is the proof that she was NOT a perceptual virgin and your claim that the phrase “I know not a man” is NOT a vow of celibacy:
“And (Joseph) knew her not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” Matthew 1:25
Joseph therefore DID know his wife AFTER Jesus was born. The scriptures therefore show the churches teaching to be utterly false.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 If your parents do not have any other children then you are the “only child” and not the “firstborn child”. Again just a look at some examples in the Bible is enough to prove it. Isaac was the only son of Abraham and Sarah. When God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac here is what He told him:
Genesis 22:2
"Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO I said the two are synonymous. That means you can use either/ or. To accept your interpretation,I would need a passage out of the Bible which says that an only child saying that they are "first born" would be guilty of lying.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 its a title! it has nothing to do with lies or not it has to do with title! but really thats your argument? im really done with you im not going to sit here while you pick apart the bible for the sake of your "holy tradition" you have been clearly been beaten because i use the bible and all you do is pick it apart and when you use it its something that you would have to assume because you never quote something off the bat you always read into it and find holes to prove ur right
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 lets make one thing clear the bible never says anything about mary being a virgin forever she never said it herself either nobody said it many things prove she wasnt even though you find all the excuse in the word for not believing it...but think about it she was married to joseph its completly natural that she would have sexual relations with him
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO Prove that "me" was meant to be a statement on the size of Christ's earthly family as opposed to a statement that the Nation of Israel would reject him. Prove that to the same degree you want me to prove my point.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 Mary and Joseph lived a normal married life as husband and wife. We can see this clearly by looking at this verse:
“And (Joseph) knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” Matthew 1:25
So after Jesus was born then Joseph did indeed know Mary his wife – proving that the Bible teaches that Mary was not a “perpetual” virgin.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
James who is listed as "brother of the Lord" is listed as son of Alpheus. In Matt 27: 56 there is a list of those looking from afar. Mary is listed as the mother of James, Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. This must be a different Mary because Mary the mother of Lord went right up to the Cross
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 lets make sure of one thing nowhere in the bible does it say she died a virgin but there are at least ten that says she had kids and jesus had half brothers.... how about when jesus said he became a alien to his "mother's children" that is my favorite because jesus said it himself try to negate that
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO "mother's children" I use a copy of the Revised Standard Version. I searched a website which is an online copy of this translation using "mother's children" as the search string. Nothing came up. I will need an exact citation to look up for me to respond.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 fine i will do what you ask but then what? if it remains how it is you will only find a way to negate the bible because that is what catholics are thought catholics werent even allowed to read the bible in the dark ages and i've read this in history books the first man to translate the bible was excuted by the catholics your people used the your religion to kill thousands you let the devil twist the word of god your people adore mary and you worship statues and use paintings of heaven!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO Stay on topic.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented without any biblical basis. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@sulkow82 where in the bible does it say mary had a vow of virginity to god!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO I said that Mary's reaction only makes sense if she had made such a vow. I never said it was in scripture. Now follow your own standards to me. You made a claim that Jesus said he became an alien to his mother's children. Follow your own standards and give me the citation.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 Mark 6:3 Is not this [referring to Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not HIS SISTERS here with us? And they were offended at him".John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him. "
The apostle Paul saw the Lord Jesus' half-brother James.
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO what church do you go to? where do you take communion?? i'm curious....
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 Doubtless she was one of the noblest ladies ever to grace this planet; nevertheless, she was not without sin (cf. 1 John 1:8, 10).
and they say she never sinned! and praying to her is a sin your praying to her to get to god you putting her in jesus place "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," it clearly says jesus is the only one not mary and jesus!
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO may i ask.....where do you take communion? what church do you go to?
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 Most striking of all is the way Jesus intentionally deflects a certain kind of honor from his mother. Once a woman in the crowd “raised her voice and said to him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!’” But Jesus replied, “on the contrary Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” (Luke 11:27–28). Jesus ranks obedience to the word of God above the special veneration of his mother.
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO you are completely mistaken. if i ask you to pray with me and for me, is that a sin? NO it is not. i asked you what church you go to and where do you take communion?? i am curious.....
gerryboy101 1 year ago
@gerryboy101 notice i argue using the bible and all you do is ramble like i said we are arguing about the bible why aren't you curious about the bible saying mary did not die a virgin? even thou catholics say she did you completly ran away from the fact that i proved you wrong by using scripture
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 I see Sola Scriptura as a paradox. "everything needed for salvation is contained therein... no other texts are needed." Yet the Bible teaches that Councils (by example through the Council of Jerusalem) are a valid and binding way of teaching. It's there in the book of Acts. Look to what the Council of Jerusalem teaches and then research if St. Paul and/or the other Apostles advanced teachings which only go as far back as that Council.
sulkow82 1 year ago
hahahahahaha A CATHOLIC QUOTING THE BIBLE! this man talks about "what jesus said" tell me where did jesus say it was ok to adore and pray to mary because everytime he had a chance he spoke out against it and the whole bible is centered around not giving and glory,praise or adoration to anybody other than god ..For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, praying to mary is heresy and this is not a personal opinion its in the bible..
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO After you are finished laughing at the fact that I quoted the Bible, could you actually respond to the point I made in my post. Hint: I was talking about the fact that Sola Scriptura is a paradox. Before you can talk about the Catholic honoring of Mary, (for the sake of this discussion) you have to prove that Scripture said to only look to Scripture for spiritual teachings.
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 i though i went over this with you .... the bible is the most pure avalible teaching so if the bible says what you do is wrong but you call it "holy tradition" who wins? to you its your "tradition" but to real christians its the bible i think what your thinking is your teachings is like a add on to the bible and what i keep trying to explain but your brain washed by the serpent is that your tradition directly contridict the bible it doesnt matter what bible says you will negate it ....
JOAOBUNITAO 1 year ago
@JOAOBUNITAO You never responded to my first post about the Council of Jerusalem. I am flat out saying that the Bible condemns Sola Scriptura as against the will of God. Show me where the Bible mandates using Scripture alone.
sulkow82 1 year ago