@george7981 The Great Tribulation is NOT persecution...we are guaranteed persecution from the world, but we are NOT destined for wrath. The Great Tribulation is God's wrath on the nations, and the Rapture DOES separate the wheat from the tares...the wheat are gathered and the the tares are left.
@BreathOFLaminin im confused?? what are you talking about? I said their has to be persecution first before the rapture, the persecution will separate the wheat from the tares, the ones who holdfast will be saved.
@george7981 There HAS been persecution ever since the early Church. More Christians have been tortured and killed for their faith in the 20th/21st Centuries than ALL previous centuries combined, INCLUDING the time of Nero.
The Great Tribulation is NOT persecution... persecution has been occurring for hundreds of years. The Great Tribulation is God's wrath poured out on the planet, which Christians are NOT destined for.
@BreathOFLaminin Look who is proving they are wrong again. God wrath starts after the sixth seal. Which is right at the same time the tribulation ends. Look at the moon and sun in Revelation 6:12 then Matthew 24:29. You can also look at Joel 2:31 for more proof you are wrong. But keep spreading the pre-tribulation so called "rapture" lie if you choose.
What are your thoughts on Daniel 12:1, which speaks of the time of great trouble starting when Michael stands up? That appears to be another catalyst for the time of trouble starting. We know that Paul loved speaking to the people out of the old testament scriptures when trying to teach them of the truth.
Your explanation fits the context, but I don't think we can ignore this one as well, as we know that Michael does help hold things back according to Daniel 10:21. Just curious.
We know that as soon as the great battle happens in heaven between satan, michael and the angels, and Satan is cast out of heaven and that is when he comes out with such wrath against the people of God. It seems to fit.
@eddienickels1 I come alongside you, Brother, to confirm to any new viewers here that many of us are CALLED BY GOD to call Pre-Tribbers to REPENTANCE for their UNBELIEF in the TRUTH of God, and for teaching and believing LIES instead! The Pre-Trib Rapture is an End Times' DOCTRINE OF DEMONS, and to believe this deception will be DEADLY to MANY who currently profess Christ.They will FALL AWAY from Him for they are NOT grounded in His TRUTH and will not be able to ENDURE to the END!
@eddienickels1 AMEN! I have said the same to Pre-Tribbers. Messiah said, "I am...THE TRUTH."So those who despise the TRUTH written in His Word actually despise HIM, for He IS the TRUTH! Pre-Tribbers should also read John 8:43-47...those who refuse to hear the TRUTH are NOT OF GOD! His true disciples "shall KNOW THE TRUTH" because they "ABIDE IN MY WORD."John 8:31 Pre-Tribbers TWIST His Word and take it out of context - so they do NOT TRULY ABIDE in it! They trust in MAN'S LIES!
Can you give me an explanation for Matthew 13 where Jesus describes FIRST gathering and binding the tares, and second gathering the wheat? Thank you much.
I personally don't know for sure when the rapture will be but i'm preparing myself as a bride at every opportunity. i'm going to be ready if He comes pre, mid or post. i don't think there will be a post trib because who will populate the world in the new kingdom if the unrighteous are sent off to hell and the righteous are all raptured. that leaves no live humans...
Good video.A person must have the truth first, before they can fall away.Like Judas.The great falling away from the body of christ occurs at the taking of the mark which is at the beginning of the 2nd 3 1/2 years(Rev 13) of the 7 year(Rev 12 &13) trib.Christians who are walking by sight and not faith will take the mark(spiritually & physically) becoz they look to the world(inhabited by the beast) to meet their needs at that time.True believers will trust God by faith to meet their daily needs.
Good information only two He's being talked about the First the Lord Jesus Christ and second the anti-christ and the next verse 2Th 2:8 describe how the ant-christ shall be taken out of the way and tells how the falling away begins 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Good information only two He's being talked about the First the Lord Jesus Christ and second the anti-christ and the next verse 2Th 2:8 describe how the ant-christ shall be taken out of the way and tells how the falling away begins 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
@eddienickels1 No it's not a lie, you just don't understand the Scriptures. He will remain in heaven as He descends to snatch us all away. He exists OUTSIDE of this universe in another dimension we call Heaven. The heavens open up and we will be clothed in our new bodies (2 Cor. 5:1-5) and will enjoy the same DIMENSIONALITY that He has (1 John 3:2).
@eddienickels1 You're the only one lying here and it is clear you don't take the Bible seriously. How about you taking 1 Thess. 4:16 in the CONTEXT of the next verse, which says, "Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them IN THE CLOUDS to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR."
He descends, but NOT onto earth...the heavens open up and we meet Him IN THE AIR. Try taking Scripture IN CONTEXT, rather than quoting one verse and basing your whole theology off it.
@eddienickels1 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 states that Christ will not touch the earth during the Rapture, as it states we will be CAUGHT UP to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Christ will remain in heaven, that's why He does not descend onto the Mount of Olives at that moment described in 1 Thess. 4; the heavens open up and we will be clothed in our new bodies (2 Cor. 5:1-5) and will enjoy the same DIMENSIONALITY that He has (1 John 3:2). Essentially, we will be pulled through a "wormhole" so to speak.
@eddienickels1 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 states that Christ will not touch the earth during the Rapture, as it states we will be CAUGHT UP to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Christ will remain in heaven, that's why He does not descend onto the Mount of Olives at that moment described in 1 Thess. 4; the heavens open up and we will be clothed in our new bodies (2 Cor. 5:1-5) and will enjoy the same DIMENSIONALITY that He has (1 John 3:2). Essentially, we will be pulled through a "wormhole" so to speak.
@eddienickels1 It's referring to the pre-tribulation Rapture, but must be taken in the context of 1 Corinthians 15:50-57, referring that we will be changed in "the twinkling of an eye," but states in verse 53, "For THIS PERISHABLE must PUT ON the IMPERISHABLE, and this mortal must PUT ON immortality."
And 2 Corinthians 5:1-5, Paul was obviously looking forward to this event and he himself believed it to be before the Great Tribulation.
1 Thess. 4:18, "COMFORT one another with these words."
@BreathOFLaminin Stay in CONTEXT, Pre-Tribber! Read 1 Thess. 4:13. This is the SUBJECT of the passage, that Christians have no need to SORROW over those who have died in Christ because they will be RESURRECTED, and they will all be reunited in Christ at His COMING! OBVIOUSLY the COMFORT of Paul's words is intended for those who SORROWED over their deceased loved ones! The comfort has NOTHING TO DO with the Pre-Trib LIE!
@RevelationTwelve11 You stay in context! Watch the WHOLE video instead of just using part of what I said...you're being very intellectually dishonest. I very carefully go through Scripture after Scripture showing God's place for the Church. Instead of getting worked up and posting a comment after you've only seen less than a 1/4 of the video, SLOW DOWN, and watch the whole thing!
@BreathOFLaminin FYI, I DID watch your WHOLE video, so your false accusation only serves to prove that you are full of ASSUMPTIONS, just as your comments about Scriptures are full of your OWN assumptions. My comment was a REPLY to one of your comments HERE where you twisted 1 Thess 4:18 to try to make it sound like the COMFORT is that Christians don't have to endure the Trib. But IN CONTEXT verse 13 tells us that the comfort is for those who SORROWED over deceased loved ones.
@RevelationTwelve11 Why are you people so aggressive?! So I believe the Bible plainly teaches Christians won't be in the Tribulation...but whether or not that's the case, it doesn't "make" it so. If we're not taken, then okay... I just believe the Bible teaches we will be. But whenever we are taken, we're still on the winning side. We see through a glass darkly...so instead of constantly fighting, get back in the game until we are called. It's 4th down, 4 seconds to go, and we have the ball.
@BreathOFLaminin (1) Look, Brother, I have read your comments on these pages as you argued with another one who knows that Pre-Trib is a LIE intended to "deceive, if possible, EVEN THE ELECT." I am NOT going to argue with you, though I do contend for the faith and for the TRUTH which is made clear in God's word for those who have eyes to SEE. You accuse us of being "aggressive" - it is called BOLDNESS in the Lord - the boldness to keep warning WITH LOVE those who are deceived.
@BreathOFLaminin (2) Also, all you do is ACCUSE (first you accused me of not watching your video, though I had - now you accuse me of "aggression.") I have only called SCRIPTURE to your attention, namely 1 Thess 4:13, which DEBUNKS the Pre-Trib lie that 4:18 is "comforting" because it means that Christians don't have to go thru the Trib. But you have no ANSWER for the TRUTH presented here, so you just come back and start accusing like "the accuser of the brethren" does. (contin)
@BreathOFLaminin (3)Since when is it "aggression" to use a Scripture IN CONTEXT for reproof and correction, just as the Bible instructs us to do? But I have done this, and you have no answer because I have written the truth of God. I have watched your video, Brother, now please go and watch the series called "The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Exposed" on my channel, so that you may know the truth and be prepared. God has called some to EXPOSE this work of darkness - TAKE HEED!
@RevelationTwelve11 I still don't see how you have disproved what I have said in the video. So far, all you have said is that the historical context on why Paul wrote to the Thessalonians was wrong. Yet, you have failed EVEN ONCE to show where I am wrong in the Scripture I give ALL through the video. I realize there is controversy about who the restrainer is, and some say it is Michael, which is why I CAREFULLY go through Scripture after Scripture showing God's place for the Church.
@BreathOFLaminin Hallo my brother, i can highly advise you to listen to this teaching and ALL those believing in pre-tribulation, it's a catholic jesuit doctrine to deceive you. Don't be fooled. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture vs. The Post-Tribulation Rapture /watch?v=7hnD43OwCMw&list=PL5E3E52C315D8253D&index=1&feature=plpp_video
@JudeOne3Four No, it is completely Biblical...I have believed all three versions of the Rapture at some points during my life...but after years of study of the Word of God and God's place for the Church, I have settled at pre-tribulation.
Neither pre-, mid-, or post-Tribulation are deceptions in ANY way. If it doesn't happen then, then so what! Mine or your belief about the timing does NOTHING to change when it actually is, and if we die in the Tribulation, then we still escape the suffering.
@BreathOFLaminin You don't even bother to study the origin of the pre-trib. And pre-trib IS a deception from the jesuits to deceive christians for the roman catholic church and it is documented and irrefutable and NOT biblical. But i also understand that people who are stuck in a doctrine don't want to see and do not want to be corrected, no problem. Nobody is going nowhere we will suffer in the tribulation, like all the saints did before us. May the Lord bless you, brother
@JudeOne3Four Who cares if we go through the Tribulation or not?! Nobodies belief one way or the other changes how it will actually occur...I happen to believe the Rapture, but if we're still here, I'm still on the winning side...and if I die before the seven years are finished, then hey, I've STILL ESCAPED being persecuted for the whole period. :-)
As Christians, we are guaranteed persecution from the world for our faith, but we are NOT destined for wrath. And the Tribulation is God's Wrath.
@BreathOFLaminin You changing from one belief to another to another proves you cannot decide. I have always been post-trib. You will most likely change again.
@NickelsBuckingBulls No, it proves that I diligently study God's word. I'm only 22 years old... and was saved at the age of 7. At 7 I only had a basic understanding, but I grew up in the ideal Christian home and was in God's word through my teenage years. As a teenager I believed pre-tribulation at first because that's how I was raised, but then I started to lean to the mid-tribulation as I began studying the 2 witnesses as well as the book of Daniel... but now, after much study, I'm pre-trib.
@eddienickels1 The Rapture is NOT the Second Coming. No one knows the day nor hour of the Rapture (thus, pre-tribulation). The Tribulation Saints, however, will know the exact time of Christ's Second Coming, though, just count the days after the 7-year peace treaty is signed.
At the Rapture, Christ does not descend onto earth, but rather, we are all caught up to meet with Him. At His Second Coming, we come back with Him and He will descend onto the Mount of Olives, which will SPLIT IN TWO.
@eddienickels1 The Jews still practice the Law today, as they do NOT believe Yeshua/ Jesus to be the Messiah who fulfilled it. The only reason they do not currently sacrifice animals is because there is no Temple, but that will resume when the Third Temple is built, which the Antichrist will desolate.
The abomination of desolation will be one of the key events that will open the eyes of many Jews to the Truth of the REAL Messiah, Yeshua/ Jesus Christ.
@eddienickels1 No, that's not what I said. The Judaizers (those that believe salvation is Jesus + Works) are false teachers because they ADD to the Gospel. It is the Gospel by which we are saved, but if one adds in keeping the Law with it, then it ceases to be the Gospel.
However, a belief that Paul was gay... Or a Sabellian view of the Trinity does NOT add to the requirement for salvation (i.e. the Gospel), though those beliefs are wrong.
One can be misguided while still not a being a liar.
@eddienickels1 That belief would be wrong, obviously, but that is not something that determines salvation. Let me give you an example, the band "Phillips, Craig, and Dean" believe in a Sabellian View of the Trinity, the belief that God can only manifest as either the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but not all at once. This is obviously an incorrect belief, but does not determine salvation. The only thing that determines salvation and whether one teaches the Truth is the Gospel itself.
@eddienickels1 That belief would be wrong, obviously, but that is not something that determines salvation. Let me give you an example, the band "Phillips, Craig, and Dean" believe in a Sabellian View of the Trinity, the belief that God can only manifest as either the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but not all at once. This is obviously an incorrect belief, but does not determine salvation. The only thing that determines salvation and whether one teaches the Truth is the Gospel itself.
@eddienickels1 That belief would be wrong, obviously, but that is not something that determines salvation. Let me give you an example, the band "Phillips, Craig, and Dean" believe in a Sabellian View of the Trinity, the belief that God can only manifest as either the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but not all at once. This is obviously an incorrect belief, but does not determine salvation. The only thing that determines salvation and whether one teaches the Truth is the Gospel itself.
@eddienickels1 You're the liar, and just beared false witness against me. What I meant was that NONE of the Scripture you used has ANYTHING to do with disproving the pre-tribulation Rapture. You twist Scripture to satisfy your own preconceived notions.
And again, both Paul and John clearly state that the only ones who are false teachers are those who deny the Gospel (Gal. 1:8) and Yeshua/ Jesus being the Messiah (1 John; 2 John).
Read 1 Corinthians 15 and TELL ME what part I have EVER denied!
@eddienickels1 You're the liar, and just beared false witness against me. What I meant was that NONE of the Scripture you used has ANYTHING to do with disproving the pre-tribulation Rapture. You twist Scripture to satisfy your own preconceived notions.
And again, both Paul and John clearly state that the only ones who are false teachers are those who deny the Gospel (Gal. 1:8) and Yeshua/ Jesus being the Messiah (1 John; 2 John).
Read 1 Corinthians 15 and TELL ME what part I have EVER denied!
@eddienickels1 No, THE great deception is the UFO phenomenon and the build-up, preparing the world for when the fallen angels once again manifest on the earth. You claim that all I have is "assumptions," but so far, I AM THE ONLY ONE TO USE SCRIPTURE IN THIS DISCUSSION. All you've done is use your own words, your "philosophy and vain deceit," to "disprove" my video and what I've said.
I CALL YOU TO REPENT, AND TRUST IN YESHUA/ JESUS AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR!
@eddienickels1 I didn't say that...I just said you have no basis for saying "the lie" in 2 Thess. 2:9-12 is the pre-tribulation Rapture. "The lie" in that passage is clearly DURING the Great Tribulation, as in, it's still coming, though the global elite are preparing the world for it.
Watch the Playlist on my channel, titled, "Return of the Antichrist."
@eddienickels1 Typical argument against the pre-tribulation Rapture. You have no basis for the pre-tribulation Rapture being "the lie." Try actually reading 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. It is obviously talking about people ALREADY in the Great Tribulation; the coming great deception is still coming, though the media and powers-that-be are steadily conditioning the world to accept it when it manifests.
Watch the Playlist on the my channel titled, "Return of the Antichrist."
@eddienickels1 If we end up in the Great Tribulation, then so what?! We still arrive at the same place with Yeshua/ Jesus anyway. Why do you people focus so much time trying your best to dismantle the pre-tribulation rapture instead of focusing on warning the world about the great deception and the UFO phenomenon?!!
@eddienickels1 I have already shown you the Scripture, but you don't have an answer for it, so you just ignore it. SOME (not all) of the Scriptures I have shown you include:
Luke 10:19-20, as well as the differences between Romans 8:37, talking about the present Church, and Revelation 13:7, talking about the Tribulation Saints. You on the other hand, have NEVER once given Scripture, but just deny the Scripture I give and say all I have is assumptions. Sorry, but this discussion is now OVER.
@eddienickels1 I PUT THE SCRIPTURE RIGHT ON THE VIDEO AND SAID NOTHING BUT SCRIPTURE. The only part you claim to be "assumption" is the beginning when I give the introduction. Try actually looking it up yourself. If you actually will turn to Yeshua, He will guide you into all Truth.
Yes, God owns everything, but too many comments on a YouTube video clutters it up and it's hard for people to tell which ones go after the other.
Comment pages are not built for debates; forums are built for that.
@eddienickels1 I accepted your comments, but please don't be a jerk and use my comment page as a Forum. It is not a forum; discussions are for private messages only. If you want a public forum, go to my website and talk with me on the Forum I have there.
Also, nowhere do I make "assumptions" in the video. The part you claim to be "assumption" is just the INTRODUCTION of the video. After that, I use nothing but Scripture to prove my points; try debunking the Scripture not the Introduction.
@eddienickels1 No you have not heard all the arguments, as you have not heard my argument. I go through Scripture and explain every part of the Rapture FROM SCRIPTURE.
Scripture Interprets Scripture.
And, by the way, "to repent" means to turn from sin and turn to God through Yeshua/ Jesus Christ. I DO trust in Yeshua. I do trust in His shed blood. I do trust in His burial and resurrection. So...what part of the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15) am I getting wrong and need to repent of?!!
@eddienickels1 I do have FULL faith. You're the one whose faith is empty, as you have not even looked into my argument. "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him" (Proverbs 18:13).
Either watch my video on the Rapture (only 6 minutes), or say nothing at all. Until you watch my video, I have won this debate for the simple reason you refuse to look into what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what you seen from other "pre-tribulation" rapture people, WATCH MY VID!
@eddienickels1 No man knows the day nor hour...the Rapture may happen September 29-30 or it may happen in 5 seconds or 5 years or whenever. All we can know is the SEASON.
By the way, I personally believe that SOMETHING MIGHT happen (key word "MIGHT") at the end of September, but NOT the Rapture. I agree with Jim Wilhelmsen and Rob Skiba that it will most likely be a "false rapture" in which the New Agers are "taken" by demonic forces to get Christians on-board with the one-world government.
@eddienickels1 Excuse me?! You're a LIAR. HOW am I a false teacher? It is BY THE GOSPEL we are saved, and that is that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and raised on the third day, and appeared to Cephas then to the twelve (1 Cor 15:1-5), and those who deny this are to be ANATHEMA, (i.e. accursed as a false teacher (Gal 1:8)). John states many times that those who deny Jesus is the Christ have the spirit of antichrist.
@eddienickels1 Now, you're just lying. Scripture is on my side...I have never blocked anyone...I have accepted all comments that don't use cuss words. The only thing I would suggest to you is that if you want to debate me, don't clutter my page with comments, rather send me a Private Message AFTER you have watched the video and I will gladly answer any questions you may have.
But, I am going on a retreat this weekend with friends, so I won't be available until I get back.
@eddienickels1 No, I have plenty, but I don't feel like writing it out when I HAVE ALREADY MADE A VIDEO ON THE SUBJECT. It is ONLY 6 and Half Minutes long... If you don't watch it, you are a fool, as King Solomon said, "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him" (Proverbs 18:13).
You have proven you have nothing to debunk my video by your statement.
I believe you are correct on this, because the pattern repeats over and over in Matthew 24 and other places. The deception sets up people for the AntiChrist. That is why the pre-trib rapture doctrine is so dangerous, it's part and parcel of the falling away. It's based on hyper-dispensationalism.
I suspect that the restrainer is the rule of law. not that law made anyone perfect but it acts as a break on men's manifest evil. but government is becoming increasingly lawless.
when men do not regard law AT ALL then i suspect that all hell will break loose.
your logic seems flawed. the faling away is the letting loose, not the restraining, surely, as others have said. but i agree it was never the church and not the Spirit for we will go thru the tribulation, the Spirit with us
@Strefanasha In my defense, I urge you to read Daniel 8:23 and ask yourself this question: If the transgressors have not come to the full, can the Antichrist (the king of fierce countenance) stand up?
@skydiver626 surely the fact that the transgressors have not come to the full is not the restrainer. so itremains, what is restraining the transgressors from coming to the full? clearly not the fact that the transgressors have not come to the full.
the fact is i do not know what the restrainer is. the pre tribbers have it easy here, they say the church or the Spirit is the restrainer, but as both will be on earth during the great trib the thing stopping the mystery of iniquity is . . what?
Rev 12:11 And they overcame (him) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until (he) be (taken) out of the way. Rev 19:20 And the (beast) was (taken), and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image......
years ago, i studied ufo sightings and read many books. My conclusion is that something indeed was happening since all these people could not be lying. i believed it was evil spirits behind all events with "aliens".
I just read verse 7, and for the first time I think I know who the "he" is.
The key is the part that says "until he be taken out of the way". 2 Thessalonians 2:7 KJV 7| For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
I think the "he" is God. I believe you are correct about verse 6. but it's the antichrist that will be taken out of the way, and God is letting that happen. Your interpretation is really close.
Satan and the antichrist are one and the same. AT the cross the satan was restrained and delivered in chains and shut up. The church was preserved from total destruction during the entire church age because Satan was chained by the holy spirit. Thru the churches continual sin God will remove its candlestick -salt losing its savor is good for nothing- resulting in the end of the church age. They mystery of iniquity is that the church still believes they are serving God when He has abandoned them.
I have just left pretribulationism, and I'm now a postrtublationist. But I'm still a dispensationalist, but without the rapture. Thanks for helping me understand the truth skydiver! :)
I agree with you, ther restrainer is not the Holy SPirit, but surely the falling away is not the restrainer rather it is what is fallen away from. I suspect it is the RULE OF LAW, for the antichrist is known as the man of sin or the LAWLESS ONE.
WE see lawlessness growing. THe US president is no longer an upholder of law but an autocrat. when personal rule of a tyrant is all that remains and the rule of law totally forgotten nothing will restrain men.
At 1:00 you quote 2 Thess 2:6 "And NOW you KNOW what witholds that HE..." (HE who?) Then you say that the HE refers to the antichrist, but WHAT is the topic under discussion up to this point? It is the REVEALING of our Lord Jesus Christ and NOT the antichrist. The church was trouble that the revealing of Jesus was at hand and Paul was assuring us that JESUS would NOT be revealed, UNTIL 1. falling away, 2. the antichrist is made known.Then Paul says And NOW you KNOW what witholds that HE(Jesus)
@AMATTEROFTRUTH I see TWO who are going to be REVEALED the main subject is the revealing of Jesus, but BEFORE Jesus is revealed in HIS time the antichrist must come on the scene or be revealed and this is one of two things Pauls tells us that WITHOLDS that he speaking of JESUS being revealed. THEN Paul begins to tells us about the revealing or unveiling of the antichrsit STARTING with verse 7, For the mystery or secret behind sin is ALREADY at work (speaking of SATAN): only HE (SATAN) continued
@AMATTEROFTRUTH vs 7...only HE (SATAN) who NOW hinders, will (continue to) hinder, until HE (SATAN) be taken out of the way. This phrase "taken out of the way" means taken out of the MIDST. Satan is going to be CAST out of the MIDST of the heavenlies down into the earth where HE can no longer HINDER the prayers of the believers. Where HE can no longer HINDER believers by tempting them as he does NOW. It is ONLY when SATAN is CAST out of heaven that he will possess the man of sin the antichrist
Read Daniel 12 and then read Rev 12 - the restrainer is the archangel Michael. He leaves his post ON EARTH over Israel to GO UP to the Third Heaven and throw Satan out and DOWN TO EARTH
Very good video. The falling away is certainly in the works right now. If one has to identify a "he" it could pertain to "the spirit of truth" which should abide within all of us. But as Paul said in 2 Timothy, "they shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and shall turn away their ears from the truth & shall be turned into fables. The fictional Left Behind series has been the fable that has led many away from the truth. Having faith in untruth is just what Satan wants.
Christ comes as a thief in the night like he did in the days of noah( by surprise)not to remove the church we are keept from harm by allmighty GOD Amen(Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. )
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels
sorry for writing so much about this subject. You have done very well in getting this far of looking into the truth about post tribulation. Now a time is coming and is short that a such rebellion and falling away event will occur do to the GREAT LIE, DELUSION that will fall upon the whole world because they did not love the truth, so they shall believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians speaks of this..look it into this because the battle is against powers, principalities, evil beings in heavenly realms!!
If you look into news articles, even the vatican church themselves have mentioned it TWICE that if aliens are real, they are to be considered as our brothers!!?? Why in the world would they want to acknowledge that NOW and not in the past. See i believe they preparing us for this event. When it appears, all beliefs will be questioned, because another race has appeared and seemed to know our past better then we do (which are lies!!). They will manage to decieve the world.
they speak about they willl appear to our whole world as our brothers in light and love and rid of the governments..unite us as mankind and to have us ASCEND to a higher conscious (to alter our bodies to become more then man!!, altering the temple of God which is our bodies!!)....plus, they have a leader over them who claims to be JESUS CHRIST, and they all claim to be ascended masters and christ like people......this has ot be research, I am one of the very few who is looking into this. continu
Jesus has warned us in matthew 24 that false christ and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, even to decieve the elect if it were possible..even at the beginning of that chapter when the deciples ask about the days of the end, and jesus first response was, "do not let anyone decieve you, for many will come in my name claiming i am he"......now what concerns me is that there are these so call new age believers, and galactic federation of light..continue
Skydiver I have a question, what is the caused for the falling away from the faith of God...Could a event so great would have cost the church goers to give up on christ because of this massive confusion that will appear upon the whole world on which they will believe a lie (a strong delusion from God)....the event could be aliens appearing upon the whole world (remember aliens are being displayed in just about anything) and we both know that these are demonic beings. What do you think of this??
@XonezIOIzenoX believe it or not, I'm not against this notion. The bible makes it clear that Satan is the prince of the power of the air which could explain the ufo phenomenon within the last 60 years as a precursor to some strange event in the future. Revelation also describes "spirits like frogs" coming out of the mouth of the dragon/beast/false prophet. If you look at pictures of so called aliens, they do have a frog appearance.
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms
^^look at this one as well, this is a very familiar verse on our battles against evil that is not of the flesh. With what we know that the devil is the prince of air combine with evil beings of heavenly realms gives us enough clues where they dwell
@XonezIOIzenoX Chuck Missler, who is a widely respected and published bible scholar, is a proponent of this viewpoint also. He uses Daniel's passage where it's speaking about the endtime beast world system and the fact that "they will mingle themselves with the seed of men." The question is: if you aren't of the seed of man, then what seed are you? Could this mingling be coming in the form of alien abduction and sperm collection? Seems crazy, but Genesis describes it in the days of noah.
@XonezIOIzenoX seen your post like to comment on the falling away what if you believed you would not be here to see something and believed that what you were taught and believed that you were going to be raptured before the anti-christ appeared and you would not go through great tribulation and wake up one morning and find yourself in the middle of that event , what is their hope then ?- continued
@XonezIOIzenoX Pro 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but [when] the desire cometh, [it is] a tree of life. - Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Note believers should know these things will come to pass unless they where taught they would not be here. Do you think they might think they been left behind?
@XonezIOIzenoX notice the BUT BEFORE and what happens and what happensthen what in the verse luke 21:11 Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Skydiver this is excellent presentation, except one thing, you got it in reverse order of who the restrainer is. The restrainer is not the falling away, that is the very thing that will unrestrain the antichrist and make him acceptable to the masses. That which which is restraining him in fact is the very opposite of the falling away, which is, enough true abiding faith on the earth to keep him from being revealed because the masses will not accept him. Think about it restraint versus let loose
Your 3 step progression is right. Falling away(apostasy), Man of sin revealed, day of Christ (2nd coming)/rapture,
This is the unleashing not a restraining. Faith on the earth now is keeping him at bay. When it all but practically dries up except a remnant few, then here he comes, the world will accept him like a chicken eating scratch feed. Strong delusion and lying signs and wonders will follow that if it were possible the very elect would be fooled by him meaning the antichrist.
I must say beside myself, you are the only one I know or ever read of that truly understands that here in 2 Thes 2 that the scripture has self interpreted itself. I commend you greatly you are showing yourself approved. By your other post I see the Lord has granted to you much wisdom and knowledge. My brother you are a breath of fresh air. I came to the truth about post trib and who the restrainer by simply letting the true teacher teach me with my bible open, the anointing that abides in us.
@jcgreen1967 Good post. If the church were to remain, can you envision the antichrist deceiving anyone? The antichrist would be exposed before he had a chance to build his empire. Pitty the man who negotiates a peace treaty with Israel. With the church here there would be headlines such as "AntiChrist Finally Arrives....Treatry with Israel negotiated" . The antichrist would be identified and exposed as the antichrist before the ink on the treaty agreement had dried.
@XonezIOIzenoX The term "falling away" is a bad translation of the Greek word "apostasia." The English language and the word "apostasy" have changed considerably since 1611. A better translation is "the departure" (i.e. the Rapture). The Antichrist cannot be revealed until after the Church (i.e. the Restrainer) "departs." Remember, before the Rapture, Scripture says God will be pouring out His Spirit on ALL nations (Joel). The falling away will be among SOME of the Tribulation Saints.
@BreathOFLaminin You know what, I like what you have pointed on here much better then what i have believed before. It would make sense of the departure or Rapture to happen first, then the man of sin be revealed. Now ofcourse, I still kinda believe perhaps this antichrist is either a muslim leader (Mahdi) or a suppose alien from outer space with powers, miracles of all sorts.
@XonezIOIzenoX Watch my playlist "The Return of the Antichrist." You can also get Dr. Patrick Heron's book on the subject by the same name. It's excellent and uses Scripture to interpret Scripture. Myself and my whole family and even my pastor have read/listened to it many times.
The Muslim Mahdi is most likely the False Prophet...the Antichrist is actually named and we're told where he currently is in the Bible.
if you think you are left behind Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is similar to my thinking on it also-- I see Revelation 11 as a fitting parallel description of this--i.e., 2 witnesses unstoppable(restraining AC from claiming to be God?) until their work is done-then killed, resurrected 3 1/2 days later(taken out of the way?), then those who survive ensuing earthquake do what? Give glory to God because AC has been 'revealed' as a liar? Hey , just somethin' to think about. May God guide us all!
This is just another heresy and a very strange and rare heresy INDEED this is a very personal, PRIVATE and FALSE interpretation of the truth about the restrainer. Don't you understand that Michael the mighty archangel is the restrainer? Yet you claim that because we people are not fallen away that it is the "event" that must happen and that is the restrainer.
It's a shame you have over 1,200 views on this private interpretation. God grant you understanding and repentance
@7thTrumpetSound I will admit that this is a less than popular view, however it just goes to show how confused the church has become. Consider that the Thessalonians were in utter confusion about the second coming so Paul was extremely careful to explain what events would occur. If he wanted the confused Thess to identify the restrainer as Michael, he would have told them.
@7thTrumpetSound Be careful about labeling this interpretation as a heresy and do some more homework. This interpretation is by far the most logical conclusion to be made when simply adhering to the context of chapter 2 as a whole. Also, read Dan 8:23 repeatedly then ask yourself: Could the antichrist rise to power if the transgressors had not come to the full? If you claim scripture as final authority then the answer has to be no.
@skydiver626 the restrainer is michael read daniel 10:21 and daniel 12 in the KJV michael protects israel now until he is removed then the great tribulation will start and the antichrist will be revealed.
Please note that in vs 7 of II Thess. chapter 2 the restraining force is referred to as "he": "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way."
@mzshone1 PART1>As I stated in my video, the restrainer was clearly defined in verse 6. People get hung up on the fact that Paul throws a personal pronoun into verse 7. The temptation is to insert whoever fits your bill the best there (i.e. the Holy Spirit) but you must rely on the passage to do it's own interpreting...
@mzshone1 PART 2>when Paul uses "he," he's merely taking the falling away and breaking it down to an individual level. It would be like me saying: the scam going around is for us to give all our money to the wealthy. Only he who falls for this scam will be poor. Yes, it's individualized but it's not to portray a particular personality, it's there to help describe an event! Verse 7 is to be interpreted the same way.
Israel rejected "Christ" "The only acceptable sacrifice, God will "never"bend to Israel's rejection; temple sacrifices will never be acceptable "ever". Dan.9 24-27 Jerusalem rebuilt in troublesome times Neh4:16 "unto" Messiah, which was cut off (crucified) the (new) covenant confirmed for 1 week (a generation) in that generation sacrifices/oblations ceased, Jerusalem destroyed by prince (Cesar), flood makes it desolate til end (days) overspreading of temple is til Christ consumes/bound devil, EZ
The words translated "taken out of the way" are usually translated in other passages as "arises (Ginomai-Strong's 1096) and from our midst" (Mesos-Strong's 3319). The topic of the passage is the coming of Jesus. 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 tells us that the man of lawlessness will be revealed before that day comes. "And now you know what is holding him (Jesus) back" > the man of lawlessness must first arise from our midst.
The Holy Spirit is what God uses to draw His people to Himself, not to restrain evil. God uses people who have submitted to the Holy Spirit (fallible as we all are while still in the flesh) to restrain evil by standing for the Truth (Yahshua) so when the great falling away happens, then the restraint is gone and the devil runs wild (Thanks be to God it is but for a short time.) Their is no way God will "pull" out His Spirit from a lost and dying world when their are still some who will respond.
The words translated as "taken out of the way" are usually given different translations. Using their most often used definitions would yield "arises from our midst". The topic of this passage is the coming of Jesus. Remember that in verse 3 we are told His day of return would not occur until the man of lawlessness is revealed. "And now you what is holding him (Jesus) back"> the man of lawlessness must arise from our midst first.
20Then he said, Do you know why I have come to you? And now I will return to fight with the [hostile] prince of Persia; and when I have gone, behold, the [hostile] prince of Greece will come. 21But I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth or the Book of Truth. There is NO ONE who holds with me and strengthens himself against these [hostile spirit forces] EXCEPT MICHAEL, your prince [national guardian angel].
I believe the Restrainer is restraining the antichrist from being revealed, I believe the Restrainer is Michael the archangel.
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1.
God wouldn't pull the Comforter from His people just when they will be in such desperate need of His covering.
Jesus Himself said, "I will never leave you or forsake you." -Heb.13:5
Furthermore, He has given us the Great Commission wherein He gave each and every one of his saints this promise, "Lo, I am with you always,even until the end of the age." -Mat.28:19-20 .Please look over the scriptures as the Barean's,thank you and GOD Bless.
The notion that the Holy Spirit id the restrainer that gets "taken out of the way" is not only grievously misleading demoralizing error, It is a denial of the blood covenant Christianity to which we have been called.Pause for a moment and picture, if you can, the Holy Spirit deserting the Church, the congregation of Israel, the single Elect of God. See Him walk out on the Tribulation saints in their hour of need.
The Holy Spirit cannot be "taken out of the way". King David testified that even if he went down into hell the wonderful Presence of God would be there with Him. pure and simple. At is a denial of God's end time provision and a denial of the end time outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The prophet Joel saw the peak of the Holy Spirit outpouring after the Great Tribulation at the opening of the 6th seal when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon to blood.
But the proposal of a Holy Spirit vacuum on earth at the end of this age is imposible. It is also a very very unfortunate mistake of interpretation. The doctrine stating that the Holy Spirit will depart from the planet during the last 7 years of this age is more than jyst wrong. Ot is grievous dissinformation being fed to the Church. Such misinformation will have dark and dire consequences. It will demoralize the Church as it exists today.
This is truly a strange business. Is the omnipresent Holy Spirit somehow unable or incompetent to operate without the present day Church? Without the Church being here to preside over the planet must the Holy Spirit walk off, abandon the "144,00 flaming Jewish evangelists", and take leave of His divine omnipresence? and prevent the Antichrist from appearing. This fits the early rapture scenario.
So the popular view is that the Holy Spirit is the restainer of this alien Atichrist monster. The Holy Spirit is the He, (as they see it), who is 'taken out of the way' after a pre-trib Rapture. Apparently the omnipresent, omnipotent Holy Spirit, (according to this shaky line of reasoning), must depart off the planet with the rapturing Church! This is truly a strange business. Is the omnipresent Holy Spirit somehow unable or incompetent to operate without the present day Church?
They ask rhetorically, "Who else but the Holy Spirit can restrain the Antichrist from being revealed?" Since no alternatives are offered they then proceed to construct a scenario in which the omnipotent, omnipresent Holy Spirit takes up guard duty to be the restrainer of the Antichrist.
So the popular view is that the Holy Spirit is the restainer of this alien Atichrist monster. The Holy Spirit is the He, (as they see it), who is 'taken out of the way' after a pre-trib Rapture.
automotivegs - Although I DO NOT believe the H. Spirit is the restrainer, I should note that those pre-trib scholars who do hold that view are not teaching that He will leave the earth (obviously He is omnipresent); what they teach is that He will be removed only from His supposed present role of restraiing sin but that He will still be on earth performing His other ministries during the Trib.
The passage above is from the New American Standard Bible. This version, (along with the KJV), would in this instance appear to render a more trustworthy translation of this critical portion of scripture in 2Thes. 2.
The identification of the restrainer as the Holy Spirit is a reckoning of last resort. Or as we say in medicine, it is a "dustbin diagnosis". Classically pre-trib teachers have begged the question.
This is most unfortunate. They had no textual basis for doing this. The original Greek manuscripts provide no basis whatsoever for assigning capital letters. There is no upper or lower case lettering in the Greek manuscripts themselves. The New King James is a very good version generally and more readable for us today than the KJV. The author uses it a lot. But here we see another of many occasions in which the 1611 King James version brings us the more reliable and truthful translation.
Let us turn our attention now to spirit beings. What are we to say about the Holy Spirit being a possible contender for the role of the restrainer of the Antichrist? He is certainly a person. The New King James Bible has curiously 'helped' to promote this interpretation of the Holy Spirit as the restrainer of the Antichrist. The NKJV translation committee has presumed to interpret the 'he who restrains' as a 'He', that is, Deity.
In Daniel 10:12,13& 20 who was it that was restraining the angelic powers of Medo-Persia and allowing Gabriel, the angelic messenger from God's throne to get through to Daniel with the endtime information? Just who executes God's will concerning spirits of darkness, principalities and powers and the ruling angelic princes?
Okay, so I'm not sure I "get it". So the apostacy was going on even when Paul was around, but now the apastacy is rampant. Therefore, the antichrist is more appearant to us now? Please explain. (Matthew 23:8 But you, do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren - Sure got a lot of Rabbi's in the church today)
Let me ask you: Could the antichrist rise to power if the whole world was true bible believers? Not a chance. His true nature would be exposed immediately. In that way, satan must deceive the majority into something other than the gospel. Only then are they ripe for the antichrist because they will have forgotten the truth of God's word. This deception or falling away must come to FULL as Daniel stated before the antichrist can rise.
Well fortunately we do not need to guess. The Bible tells us quite clearly who it is that holds back or restrains hostile spirit forces on behalf of God's covenant people. Gabriel is speaking here and he says,
10:21 "But I will tell you what is inscribed in the.....Book of Truth. There is no one who holds with me or strengthens himself against these hostile spirit forces except Michael your prince, (national guardian angel). -Dan.10:21
So, the apostate church restrains the antichrist? Or is it that there is an inverse relationship between the level of apostacy in the church and the degree of restaint on the spirit of antichrist?
It's the time it takes for the apostasy to come into full. The falling away encapsulates not only those who have stepped away from the faith but also those who have the spirit of antichrist: Ephes 2:2... the (antichrist)spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Yeah, I get you. It's an inverse relationship. The more apsotacy and spirit of antichrist in the church, the less restrant there is to the emergence of the man of sin.
Interesting piece. I thought that the "one" who was restraining the antichrist was Michael the archangel (in accordance with Daniel 12:1). Because after Michael arises/stands then there will be great trouble/tribulation. However I can see fm comparison of scripture in ur video how u may be correct. Bless!
I can see where they're coming from though. However after some more study I still believe the one who is holding the anti-christ from unleashing "hell on earth" is Michael the archangel.
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. i wonder if there's a rule in english allowing what to be a person? It can refer to a person-- Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. you need to re-read it
You may as well throw the gospel books away then because Jesus was always addressing the Jews. Does that mean that anything he said doesn't apply to us? Of course not. Then how to determine what subjects you can pick and choose? The "it's for the Jews" argument is the most ridiculous way to try avoid accountability.
Thats not waht i said please dont put words in my mouth. The book of Matthew as well as the other 3 Mark Luke and John were ment for the Kingdom on earth. The jews rejected their preching Inthe book of acts then in chapter 13 Paul (Saul) they carried on to the Gentiles. Their are 2 doctrien in the bible the Kindom Gospel and one for the body of Christ through justification. thats were all the confusion comes in. if you dont get it thats fine as long as you believe in Christ your good.
Jesus 1 Persecuted and Killed 2 Saved us All 3 Judgment will come (FIRE)
Their are always 3 steps, Persecution, Salvation, Judgement
george7981 1 month ago
Examples
Sodom- lot endured persecution, was saved, then judgement came (FIRE)
The Flood. Noah endured persecution, was saved (ark), the Judgment came (WATER)
Exodus from Egypt. Israelites endured persecution, was saved (passover) the Judgment Came (Heavens Angels)
do u need more? The rapture comes after the persecution, GOD MUST SEPERATE THE WHEAT FROM THE TARES!
george7981 1 month ago
@george7981 The Great Tribulation is NOT persecution...we are guaranteed persecution from the world, but we are NOT destined for wrath. The Great Tribulation is God's wrath on the nations, and the Rapture DOES separate the wheat from the tares...the wheat are gathered and the the tares are left.
BreathOFLaminin 4 weeks ago
@BreathOFLaminin im confused?? what are you talking about? I said their has to be persecution first before the rapture, the persecution will separate the wheat from the tares, the ones who holdfast will be saved.
george7981 4 weeks ago
@george7981 There HAS been persecution ever since the early Church. More Christians have been tortured and killed for their faith in the 20th/21st Centuries than ALL previous centuries combined, INCLUDING the time of Nero.
The Great Tribulation is NOT persecution... persecution has been occurring for hundreds of years. The Great Tribulation is God's wrath poured out on the planet, which Christians are NOT destined for.
BreathOFLaminin 4 weeks ago
@BreathOFLaminin Look who is proving they are wrong again. God wrath starts after the sixth seal. Which is right at the same time the tribulation ends. Look at the moon and sun in Revelation 6:12 then Matthew 24:29. You can also look at Joel 2:31 for more proof you are wrong. But keep spreading the pre-tribulation so called "rapture" lie if you choose.
NickelsBuckingBulls 2 weeks ago
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What are your thoughts on Daniel 12:1, which speaks of the time of great trouble starting when Michael stands up? That appears to be another catalyst for the time of trouble starting. We know that Paul loved speaking to the people out of the old testament scriptures when trying to teach them of the truth.
Your explanation fits the context, but I don't think we can ignore this one as well, as we know that Michael does help hold things back according to Daniel 10:21. Just curious.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
We know that as soon as the great battle happens in heaven between satan, michael and the angels, and Satan is cast out of heaven and that is when he comes out with such wrath against the people of God. It seems to fit.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
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Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@eddienickels1 I come alongside you, Brother, to confirm to any new viewers here that many of us are CALLED BY GOD to call Pre-Tribbers to REPENTANCE for their UNBELIEF in the TRUTH of God, and for teaching and believing LIES instead! The Pre-Trib Rapture is an End Times' DOCTRINE OF DEMONS, and to believe this deception will be DEADLY to MANY who currently profess Christ.They will FALL AWAY from Him for they are NOT grounded in His TRUTH and will not be able to ENDURE to the END!
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
@eddienickels1 AMEN! I have said the same to Pre-Tribbers. Messiah said, "I am...THE TRUTH."So those who despise the TRUTH written in His Word actually despise HIM, for He IS the TRUTH! Pre-Tribbers should also read John 8:43-47...those who refuse to hear the TRUTH are NOT OF GOD! His true disciples "shall KNOW THE TRUTH" because they "ABIDE IN MY WORD."John 8:31 Pre-Tribbers TWIST His Word and take it out of context - so they do NOT TRULY ABIDE in it! They trust in MAN'S LIES!
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
Can you give me an explanation for Matthew 13 where Jesus describes FIRST gathering and binding the tares, and second gathering the wheat? Thank you much.
RobertMOdell 4 months ago
I personally don't know for sure when the rapture will be but i'm preparing myself as a bride at every opportunity. i'm going to be ready if He comes pre, mid or post. i don't think there will be a post trib because who will populate the world in the new kingdom if the unrighteous are sent off to hell and the righteous are all raptured. that leaves no live humans...
Theophiless 4 months ago
Good video.A person must have the truth first, before they can fall away.Like Judas.The great falling away from the body of christ occurs at the taking of the mark which is at the beginning of the 2nd 3 1/2 years(Rev 13) of the 7 year(Rev 12 &13) trib.Christians who are walking by sight and not faith will take the mark(spiritually & physically) becoz they look to the world(inhabited by the beast) to meet their needs at that time.True believers will trust God by faith to meet their daily needs.
tedgreented 4 months ago
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Good information only two He's being talked about the First the Lord Jesus Christ and second the anti-christ and the next verse 2Th 2:8 describe how the ant-christ shall be taken out of the way and tells how the falling away begins 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
thetruthimpart 4 months ago
Good information only two He's being talked about the First the Lord Jesus Christ and second the anti-christ and the next verse 2Th 2:8 describe how the ant-christ shall be taken out of the way and tells how the falling away begins 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
thetruthimpart 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 No it's not a lie, you just don't understand the Scriptures. He will remain in heaven as He descends to snatch us all away. He exists OUTSIDE of this universe in another dimension we call Heaven. The heavens open up and we will be clothed in our new bodies (2 Cor. 5:1-5) and will enjoy the same DIMENSIONALITY that He has (1 John 3:2).
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 You're the only one lying here and it is clear you don't take the Bible seriously. How about you taking 1 Thess. 4:16 in the CONTEXT of the next verse, which says, "Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them IN THE CLOUDS to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR."
He descends, but NOT onto earth...the heavens open up and we meet Him IN THE AIR. Try taking Scripture IN CONTEXT, rather than quoting one verse and basing your whole theology off it.
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 states that Christ will not touch the earth during the Rapture, as it states we will be CAUGHT UP to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Christ will remain in heaven, that's why He does not descend onto the Mount of Olives at that moment described in 1 Thess. 4; the heavens open up and we will be clothed in our new bodies (2 Cor. 5:1-5) and will enjoy the same DIMENSIONALITY that He has (1 John 3:2). Essentially, we will be pulled through a "wormhole" so to speak.
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 states that Christ will not touch the earth during the Rapture, as it states we will be CAUGHT UP to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Christ will remain in heaven, that's why He does not descend onto the Mount of Olives at that moment described in 1 Thess. 4; the heavens open up and we will be clothed in our new bodies (2 Cor. 5:1-5) and will enjoy the same DIMENSIONALITY that He has (1 John 3:2). Essentially, we will be pulled through a "wormhole" so to speak.
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 It's referring to the pre-tribulation Rapture, but must be taken in the context of 1 Corinthians 15:50-57, referring that we will be changed in "the twinkling of an eye," but states in verse 53, "For THIS PERISHABLE must PUT ON the IMPERISHABLE, and this mortal must PUT ON immortality."
And 2 Corinthians 5:1-5, Paul was obviously looking forward to this event and he himself believed it to be before the Great Tribulation.
1 Thess. 4:18, "COMFORT one another with these words."
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@BreathOFLaminin Stay in CONTEXT, Pre-Tribber! Read 1 Thess. 4:13. This is the SUBJECT of the passage, that Christians have no need to SORROW over those who have died in Christ because they will be RESURRECTED, and they will all be reunited in Christ at His COMING! OBVIOUSLY the COMFORT of Paul's words is intended for those who SORROWED over their deceased loved ones! The comfort has NOTHING TO DO with the Pre-Trib LIE!
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
@RevelationTwelve11 You stay in context! Watch the WHOLE video instead of just using part of what I said...you're being very intellectually dishonest. I very carefully go through Scripture after Scripture showing God's place for the Church. Instead of getting worked up and posting a comment after you've only seen less than a 1/4 of the video, SLOW DOWN, and watch the whole thing!
BreathOFLaminin 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin FYI, I DID watch your WHOLE video, so your false accusation only serves to prove that you are full of ASSUMPTIONS, just as your comments about Scriptures are full of your OWN assumptions. My comment was a REPLY to one of your comments HERE where you twisted 1 Thess 4:18 to try to make it sound like the COMFORT is that Christians don't have to endure the Trib. But IN CONTEXT verse 13 tells us that the comfort is for those who SORROWED over deceased loved ones.
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
@RevelationTwelve11 Why are you people so aggressive?! So I believe the Bible plainly teaches Christians won't be in the Tribulation...but whether or not that's the case, it doesn't "make" it so. If we're not taken, then okay... I just believe the Bible teaches we will be. But whenever we are taken, we're still on the winning side. We see through a glass darkly...so instead of constantly fighting, get back in the game until we are called. It's 4th down, 4 seconds to go, and we have the ball.
BreathOFLaminin 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin (1) Look, Brother, I have read your comments on these pages as you argued with another one who knows that Pre-Trib is a LIE intended to "deceive, if possible, EVEN THE ELECT." I am NOT going to argue with you, though I do contend for the faith and for the TRUTH which is made clear in God's word for those who have eyes to SEE. You accuse us of being "aggressive" - it is called BOLDNESS in the Lord - the boldness to keep warning WITH LOVE those who are deceived.
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin (2) Also, all you do is ACCUSE (first you accused me of not watching your video, though I had - now you accuse me of "aggression.") I have only called SCRIPTURE to your attention, namely 1 Thess 4:13, which DEBUNKS the Pre-Trib lie that 4:18 is "comforting" because it means that Christians don't have to go thru the Trib. But you have no ANSWER for the TRUTH presented here, so you just come back and start accusing like "the accuser of the brethren" does. (contin)
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin (3)Since when is it "aggression" to use a Scripture IN CONTEXT for reproof and correction, just as the Bible instructs us to do? But I have done this, and you have no answer because I have written the truth of God. I have watched your video, Brother, now please go and watch the series called "The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Exposed" on my channel, so that you may know the truth and be prepared. God has called some to EXPOSE this work of darkness - TAKE HEED!
RevelationTwelve11 1 month ago
@RevelationTwelve11 I still don't see how you have disproved what I have said in the video. So far, all you have said is that the historical context on why Paul wrote to the Thessalonians was wrong. Yet, you have failed EVEN ONCE to show where I am wrong in the Scripture I give ALL through the video. I realize there is controversy about who the restrainer is, and some say it is Michael, which is why I CAREFULLY go through Scripture after Scripture showing God's place for the Church.
BreathOFLaminin 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin Hallo my brother, i can highly advise you to listen to this teaching and ALL those believing in pre-tribulation, it's a catholic jesuit doctrine to deceive you. Don't be fooled. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture vs. The Post-Tribulation Rapture /watch?v=7hnD43OwCMw&list=PL5E3E52C315D8253D&index=1&feature=plpp_video
JudeOne3Four 1 month ago
@JudeOne3Four No, it is completely Biblical...I have believed all three versions of the Rapture at some points during my life...but after years of study of the Word of God and God's place for the Church, I have settled at pre-tribulation.
Neither pre-, mid-, or post-Tribulation are deceptions in ANY way. If it doesn't happen then, then so what! Mine or your belief about the timing does NOTHING to change when it actually is, and if we die in the Tribulation, then we still escape the suffering.
BreathOFLaminin 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin You don't even bother to study the origin of the pre-trib. And pre-trib IS a deception from the jesuits to deceive christians for the roman catholic church and it is documented and irrefutable and NOT biblical. But i also understand that people who are stuck in a doctrine don't want to see and do not want to be corrected, no problem. Nobody is going nowhere we will suffer in the tribulation, like all the saints did before us. May the Lord bless you, brother
JudeOne3Four 1 month ago
@JudeOne3Four Who cares if we go through the Tribulation or not?! Nobodies belief one way or the other changes how it will actually occur...I happen to believe the Rapture, but if we're still here, I'm still on the winning side...and if I die before the seven years are finished, then hey, I've STILL ESCAPED being persecuted for the whole period. :-)
As Christians, we are guaranteed persecution from the world for our faith, but we are NOT destined for wrath. And the Tribulation is God's Wrath.
BreathOFLaminin 4 weeks ago
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@BreathOFLaminin Examples
Sodom- lot endured persecution, was saved, then judgement came (FIRE)
The Flood. Noah endured persecution, was saved (ark), the Judgment came (WATER)
Exodus from Egypt. Israelites endured persecution, was saved (passover) the Judgment Came (Heavens Angels)
do u need more? The rapture comes after the persecution, GOD MUST SEPERATE THE WHEAT FROM THE TARES!
george7981 1 month ago
@BreathOFLaminin You changing from one belief to another to another proves you cannot decide. I have always been post-trib. You will most likely change again.
NickelsBuckingBulls 2 weeks ago
@NickelsBuckingBulls No, it proves that I diligently study God's word. I'm only 22 years old... and was saved at the age of 7. At 7 I only had a basic understanding, but I grew up in the ideal Christian home and was in God's word through my teenage years. As a teenager I believed pre-tribulation at first because that's how I was raised, but then I started to lean to the mid-tribulation as I began studying the 2 witnesses as well as the book of Daniel... but now, after much study, I'm pre-trib.
BreathOFLaminin 2 weeks ago
@eddienickels1 The Rapture is NOT the Second Coming. No one knows the day nor hour of the Rapture (thus, pre-tribulation). The Tribulation Saints, however, will know the exact time of Christ's Second Coming, though, just count the days after the 7-year peace treaty is signed.
At the Rapture, Christ does not descend onto earth, but rather, we are all caught up to meet with Him. At His Second Coming, we come back with Him and He will descend onto the Mount of Olives, which will SPLIT IN TWO.
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 The Jews still practice the Law today, as they do NOT believe Yeshua/ Jesus to be the Messiah who fulfilled it. The only reason they do not currently sacrifice animals is because there is no Temple, but that will resume when the Third Temple is built, which the Antichrist will desolate.
The abomination of desolation will be one of the key events that will open the eyes of many Jews to the Truth of the REAL Messiah, Yeshua/ Jesus Christ.
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
@eddienickels1 No, that's not what I said. The Judaizers (those that believe salvation is Jesus + Works) are false teachers because they ADD to the Gospel. It is the Gospel by which we are saved, but if one adds in keeping the Law with it, then it ceases to be the Gospel.
However, a belief that Paul was gay... Or a Sabellian view of the Trinity does NOT add to the requirement for salvation (i.e. the Gospel), though those beliefs are wrong.
One can be misguided while still not a being a liar.
BreathOFLaminin 4 months ago
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@eddienickels1 That belief would be wrong, obviously, but that is not something that determines salvation. Let me give you an example, the band "Phillips, Craig, and Dean" believe in a Sabellian View of the Trinity, the belief that God can only manifest as either the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but not all at once. This is obviously an incorrect belief, but does not determine salvation. The only thing that determines salvation and whether one teaches the Truth is the Gospel itself.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 That belief would be wrong, obviously, but that is not something that determines salvation. Let me give you an example, the band "Phillips, Craig, and Dean" believe in a Sabellian View of the Trinity, the belief that God can only manifest as either the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but not all at once. This is obviously an incorrect belief, but does not determine salvation. The only thing that determines salvation and whether one teaches the Truth is the Gospel itself.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 That belief would be wrong, obviously, but that is not something that determines salvation. Let me give you an example, the band "Phillips, Craig, and Dean" believe in a Sabellian View of the Trinity, the belief that God can only manifest as either the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but not all at once. This is obviously an incorrect belief, but does not determine salvation. The only thing that determines salvation and whether one teaches the Truth is the Gospel itself.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
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@eddienickels1 You're the liar, and just beared false witness against me. What I meant was that NONE of the Scripture you used has ANYTHING to do with disproving the pre-tribulation Rapture. You twist Scripture to satisfy your own preconceived notions.
And again, both Paul and John clearly state that the only ones who are false teachers are those who deny the Gospel (Gal. 1:8) and Yeshua/ Jesus being the Messiah (1 John; 2 John).
Read 1 Corinthians 15 and TELL ME what part I have EVER denied!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 You're the liar, and just beared false witness against me. What I meant was that NONE of the Scripture you used has ANYTHING to do with disproving the pre-tribulation Rapture. You twist Scripture to satisfy your own preconceived notions.
And again, both Paul and John clearly state that the only ones who are false teachers are those who deny the Gospel (Gal. 1:8) and Yeshua/ Jesus being the Messiah (1 John; 2 John).
Read 1 Corinthians 15 and TELL ME what part I have EVER denied!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 No, THE great deception is the UFO phenomenon and the build-up, preparing the world for when the fallen angels once again manifest on the earth. You claim that all I have is "assumptions," but so far, I AM THE ONLY ONE TO USE SCRIPTURE IN THIS DISCUSSION. All you've done is use your own words, your "philosophy and vain deceit," to "disprove" my video and what I've said.
I CALL YOU TO REPENT, AND TRUST IN YESHUA/ JESUS AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 I didn't say that...I just said you have no basis for saying "the lie" in 2 Thess. 2:9-12 is the pre-tribulation Rapture. "The lie" in that passage is clearly DURING the Great Tribulation, as in, it's still coming, though the global elite are preparing the world for it.
Watch the Playlist on my channel, titled, "Return of the Antichrist."
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 Typical argument against the pre-tribulation Rapture. You have no basis for the pre-tribulation Rapture being "the lie." Try actually reading 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. It is obviously talking about people ALREADY in the Great Tribulation; the coming great deception is still coming, though the media and powers-that-be are steadily conditioning the world to accept it when it manifests.
Watch the Playlist on the my channel titled, "Return of the Antichrist."
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 If we end up in the Great Tribulation, then so what?! We still arrive at the same place with Yeshua/ Jesus anyway. Why do you people focus so much time trying your best to dismantle the pre-tribulation rapture instead of focusing on warning the world about the great deception and the UFO phenomenon?!!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 I have already shown you the Scripture, but you don't have an answer for it, so you just ignore it. SOME (not all) of the Scriptures I have shown you include:
Luke 10:19-20, as well as the differences between Romans 8:37, talking about the present Church, and Revelation 13:7, talking about the Tribulation Saints. You on the other hand, have NEVER once given Scripture, but just deny the Scripture I give and say all I have is assumptions. Sorry, but this discussion is now OVER.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 I PUT THE SCRIPTURE RIGHT ON THE VIDEO AND SAID NOTHING BUT SCRIPTURE. The only part you claim to be "assumption" is the beginning when I give the introduction. Try actually looking it up yourself. If you actually will turn to Yeshua, He will guide you into all Truth.
Yes, God owns everything, but too many comments on a YouTube video clutters it up and it's hard for people to tell which ones go after the other.
Comment pages are not built for debates; forums are built for that.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 I accepted your comments, but please don't be a jerk and use my comment page as a Forum. It is not a forum; discussions are for private messages only. If you want a public forum, go to my website and talk with me on the Forum I have there.
Also, nowhere do I make "assumptions" in the video. The part you claim to be "assumption" is just the INTRODUCTION of the video. After that, I use nothing but Scripture to prove my points; try debunking the Scripture not the Introduction.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 Look in my playlist, "BoL Bible Studies" on my channel. It's the only one of those 4 with "Rapture" in the title.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 No you have not heard all the arguments, as you have not heard my argument. I go through Scripture and explain every part of the Rapture FROM SCRIPTURE.
Scripture Interprets Scripture.
And, by the way, "to repent" means to turn from sin and turn to God through Yeshua/ Jesus Christ. I DO trust in Yeshua. I do trust in His shed blood. I do trust in His burial and resurrection. So...what part of the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15) am I getting wrong and need to repent of?!!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 I do have FULL faith. You're the one whose faith is empty, as you have not even looked into my argument. "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him" (Proverbs 18:13).
Either watch my video on the Rapture (only 6 minutes), or say nothing at all. Until you watch my video, I have won this debate for the simple reason you refuse to look into what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what you seen from other "pre-tribulation" rapture people, WATCH MY VID!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 No man knows the day nor hour...the Rapture may happen September 29-30 or it may happen in 5 seconds or 5 years or whenever. All we can know is the SEASON.
By the way, I personally believe that SOMETHING MIGHT happen (key word "MIGHT") at the end of September, but NOT the Rapture. I agree with Jim Wilhelmsen and Rob Skiba that it will most likely be a "false rapture" in which the New Agers are "taken" by demonic forces to get Christians on-board with the one-world government.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 Excuse me?! You're a LIAR. HOW am I a false teacher? It is BY THE GOSPEL we are saved, and that is that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and raised on the third day, and appeared to Cephas then to the twelve (1 Cor 15:1-5), and those who deny this are to be ANATHEMA, (i.e. accursed as a false teacher (Gal 1:8)). John states many times that those who deny Jesus is the Christ have the spirit of antichrist.
When have I denied ANY of this?!
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 Now, you're just lying. Scripture is on my side...I have never blocked anyone...I have accepted all comments that don't use cuss words. The only thing I would suggest to you is that if you want to debate me, don't clutter my page with comments, rather send me a Private Message AFTER you have watched the video and I will gladly answer any questions you may have.
But, I am going on a retreat this weekend with friends, so I won't be available until I get back.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 No, I have plenty, but I don't feel like writing it out when I HAVE ALREADY MADE A VIDEO ON THE SUBJECT. It is ONLY 6 and Half Minutes long... If you don't watch it, you are a fool, as King Solomon said, "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him" (Proverbs 18:13).
You have proven you have nothing to debunk my video by your statement.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 Watch my video on the Rapture. You've proven yourself to have no understanding regarding the Church by that statement.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
@eddienickels1 Watch my video on the Rapture. You've proven yourself to have no understanding regarding the Church by that statement.
BreathOFLaminin 5 months ago
I believe you are correct on this, because the pattern repeats over and over in Matthew 24 and other places. The deception sets up people for the AntiChrist. That is why the pre-trib rapture doctrine is so dangerous, it's part and parcel of the falling away. It's based on hyper-dispensationalism.
PostTribWarning 8 months ago
I suspect that the restrainer is the rule of law. not that law made anyone perfect but it acts as a break on men's manifest evil. but government is becoming increasingly lawless.
when men do not regard law AT ALL then i suspect that all hell will break loose.
your logic seems flawed. the faling away is the letting loose, not the restraining, surely, as others have said. but i agree it was never the church and not the Spirit for we will go thru the tribulation, the Spirit with us
Strefanasha 9 months ago
@Strefanasha In my defense, I urge you to read Daniel 8:23 and ask yourself this question: If the transgressors have not come to the full, can the Antichrist (the king of fierce countenance) stand up?
skydiver626 9 months ago
@skydiver626 surely the fact that the transgressors have not come to the full is not the restrainer. so itremains, what is restraining the transgressors from coming to the full? clearly not the fact that the transgressors have not come to the full.
the fact is i do not know what the restrainer is. the pre tribbers have it easy here, they say the church or the Spirit is the restrainer, but as both will be on earth during the great trib the thing stopping the mystery of iniquity is . . what?
Strefanasha 9 months ago
Rev 12:11 And they overcame (him) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until (he) be (taken) out of the way. Rev 19:20 And the (beast) was (taken), and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image......
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
years ago, i studied ufo sightings and read many books. My conclusion is that something indeed was happening since all these people could not be lying. i believed it was evil spirits behind all events with "aliens".
pamprw 11 months ago
I just read verse 7, and for the first time I think I know who the "he" is.
The key is the part that says "until he be taken out of the way". 2 Thessalonians 2:7 KJV 7| For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
I think the "he" is God. I believe you are correct about verse 6. but it's the antichrist that will be taken out of the way, and God is letting that happen. Your interpretation is really close.
harmono 11 months ago
Satan and the antichrist are one and the same. AT the cross the satan was restrained and delivered in chains and shut up. The church was preserved from total destruction during the entire church age because Satan was chained by the holy spirit. Thru the churches continual sin God will remove its candlestick -salt losing its savor is good for nothing- resulting in the end of the church age. They mystery of iniquity is that the church still believes they are serving God when He has abandoned them.
TheSkymega 11 months ago
I have just left pretribulationism, and I'm now a postrtublationist. But I'm still a dispensationalist, but without the rapture. Thanks for helping me understand the truth skydiver! :)
Nashhinton 1 year ago
I agree with you, ther restrainer is not the Holy SPirit, but surely the falling away is not the restrainer rather it is what is fallen away from. I suspect it is the RULE OF LAW, for the antichrist is known as the man of sin or the LAWLESS ONE.
WE see lawlessness growing. THe US president is no longer an upholder of law but an autocrat. when personal rule of a tyrant is all that remains and the rule of law totally forgotten nothing will restrain men.
this is not final, only a theory of mine
Strefanasha 1 year ago
At 1:00 you quote 2 Thess 2:6 "And NOW you KNOW what witholds that HE..." (HE who?) Then you say that the HE refers to the antichrist, but WHAT is the topic under discussion up to this point? It is the REVEALING of our Lord Jesus Christ and NOT the antichrist. The church was trouble that the revealing of Jesus was at hand and Paul was assuring us that JESUS would NOT be revealed, UNTIL 1. falling away, 2. the antichrist is made known.Then Paul says And NOW you KNOW what witholds that HE(Jesus)
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
@AMATTEROFTRUTH I see TWO who are going to be REVEALED the main subject is the revealing of Jesus, but BEFORE Jesus is revealed in HIS time the antichrist must come on the scene or be revealed and this is one of two things Pauls tells us that WITHOLDS that he speaking of JESUS being revealed. THEN Paul begins to tells us about the revealing or unveiling of the antichrsit STARTING with verse 7, For the mystery or secret behind sin is ALREADY at work (speaking of SATAN): only HE (SATAN) continued
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
@AMATTEROFTRUTH vs 7...only HE (SATAN) who NOW hinders, will (continue to) hinder, until HE (SATAN) be taken out of the way. This phrase "taken out of the way" means taken out of the MIDST. Satan is going to be CAST out of the MIDST of the heavenlies down into the earth where HE can no longer HINDER the prayers of the believers. Where HE can no longer HINDER believers by tempting them as he does NOW. It is ONLY when SATAN is CAST out of heaven that he will possess the man of sin the antichrist
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
Read Daniel 12 and then read Rev 12 - the restrainer is the archangel Michael. He leaves his post ON EARTH over Israel to GO UP to the Third Heaven and throw Satan out and DOWN TO EARTH
pockmarkedbuttocks 1 year ago
Very good video. The falling away is certainly in the works right now. If one has to identify a "he" it could pertain to "the spirit of truth" which should abide within all of us. But as Paul said in 2 Timothy, "they shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and shall turn away their ears from the truth & shall be turned into fables. The fictional Left Behind series has been the fable that has led many away from the truth. Having faith in untruth is just what Satan wants.
KapaMan00 1 year ago
good vid on the restrainer part!
receivejesusnow 1 year ago
You are so wrong! 1) Rapture 2) Falling Away 3) Antichrist
receivejesusnow 1 year ago
Christ comes as a thief in the night like he did in the days of noah( by surprise)not to remove the church we are keept from harm by allmighty GOD Amen(Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. )
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
check out DR OWUOR on here. The state of the church.
rossdaboss1959 1 year ago
post-tribulation is in the Bible
thetruthimpart 1 year ago
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
The restrainer Is Michael the archangel.
michthemich789 1 year ago
sorry for writing so much about this subject. You have done very well in getting this far of looking into the truth about post tribulation. Now a time is coming and is short that a such rebellion and falling away event will occur do to the GREAT LIE, DELUSION that will fall upon the whole world because they did not love the truth, so they shall believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians speaks of this..look it into this because the battle is against powers, principalities, evil beings in heavenly realms!!
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
If you look into news articles, even the vatican church themselves have mentioned it TWICE that if aliens are real, they are to be considered as our brothers!!?? Why in the world would they want to acknowledge that NOW and not in the past. See i believe they preparing us for this event. When it appears, all beliefs will be questioned, because another race has appeared and seemed to know our past better then we do (which are lies!!). They will manage to decieve the world.
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
they speak about they willl appear to our whole world as our brothers in light and love and rid of the governments..unite us as mankind and to have us ASCEND to a higher conscious (to alter our bodies to become more then man!!, altering the temple of God which is our bodies!!)....plus, they have a leader over them who claims to be JESUS CHRIST, and they all claim to be ascended masters and christ like people......this has ot be research, I am one of the very few who is looking into this. continu
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
Jesus has warned us in matthew 24 that false christ and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, even to decieve the elect if it were possible..even at the beginning of that chapter when the deciples ask about the days of the end, and jesus first response was, "do not let anyone decieve you, for many will come in my name claiming i am he"......now what concerns me is that there are these so call new age believers, and galactic federation of light..continue
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
Skydiver I have a question, what is the caused for the falling away from the faith of God...Could a event so great would have cost the church goers to give up on christ because of this massive confusion that will appear upon the whole world on which they will believe a lie (a strong delusion from God)....the event could be aliens appearing upon the whole world (remember aliens are being displayed in just about anything) and we both know that these are demonic beings. What do you think of this??
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
@XonezIOIzenoX believe it or not, I'm not against this notion. The bible makes it clear that Satan is the prince of the power of the air which could explain the ufo phenomenon within the last 60 years as a precursor to some strange event in the future. Revelation also describes "spirits like frogs" coming out of the mouth of the dragon/beast/false prophet. If you look at pictures of so called aliens, they do have a frog appearance.
skydiver626 1 year ago
@skydiver626 very true indeed. Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms
^^look at this one as well, this is a very familiar verse on our battles against evil that is not of the flesh. With what we know that the devil is the prince of air combine with evil beings of heavenly realms gives us enough clues where they dwell
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
@XonezIOIzenoX Chuck Missler, who is a widely respected and published bible scholar, is a proponent of this viewpoint also. He uses Daniel's passage where it's speaking about the endtime beast world system and the fact that "they will mingle themselves with the seed of men." The question is: if you aren't of the seed of man, then what seed are you? Could this mingling be coming in the form of alien abduction and sperm collection? Seems crazy, but Genesis describes it in the days of noah.
skydiver626 1 year ago
@XonezIOIzenoX seen your post like to comment on the falling away what if you believed you would not be here to see something and believed that what you were taught and believed that you were going to be raptured before the anti-christ appeared and you would not go through great tribulation and wake up one morning and find yourself in the middle of that event , what is their hope then ?- continued
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
@XonezIOIzenoX Pro 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but [when] the desire cometh, [it is] a tree of life. - Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Note believers should know these things will come to pass unless they where taught they would not be here. Do you think they might think they been left behind?
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
@XonezIOIzenoX notice the BUT BEFORE and what happens and what happensthen what in the verse luke 21:11 Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
Skydiver this is excellent presentation, except one thing, you got it in reverse order of who the restrainer is. The restrainer is not the falling away, that is the very thing that will unrestrain the antichrist and make him acceptable to the masses. That which which is restraining him in fact is the very opposite of the falling away, which is, enough true abiding faith on the earth to keep him from being revealed because the masses will not accept him. Think about it restraint versus let loose
jcgreen1967 9 months ago
Your 3 step progression is right. Falling away(apostasy), Man of sin revealed, day of Christ (2nd coming)/rapture,
This is the unleashing not a restraining. Faith on the earth now is keeping him at bay. When it all but practically dries up except a remnant few, then here he comes, the world will accept him like a chicken eating scratch feed. Strong delusion and lying signs and wonders will follow that if it were possible the very elect would be fooled by him meaning the antichrist.
jcgreen1967 9 months ago
I must say beside myself, you are the only one I know or ever read of that truly understands that here in 2 Thes 2 that the scripture has self interpreted itself. I commend you greatly you are showing yourself approved. By your other post I see the Lord has granted to you much wisdom and knowledge. My brother you are a breath of fresh air. I came to the truth about post trib and who the restrainer by simply letting the true teacher teach me with my bible open, the anointing that abides in us.
jcgreen1967 9 months ago
@jcgreen1967 Good post. If the church were to remain, can you envision the antichrist deceiving anyone? The antichrist would be exposed before he had a chance to build his empire. Pitty the man who negotiates a peace treaty with Israel. With the church here there would be headlines such as "AntiChrist Finally Arrives....Treatry with Israel negotiated" . The antichrist would be identified and exposed as the antichrist before the ink on the treaty agreement had dried.
Duck4212 8 months ago
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BreathOFLaminin 6 months ago
@XonezIOIzenoX The term "falling away" is a bad translation of the Greek word "apostasia." The English language and the word "apostasy" have changed considerably since 1611. A better translation is "the departure" (i.e. the Rapture). The Antichrist cannot be revealed until after the Church (i.e. the Restrainer) "departs." Remember, before the Rapture, Scripture says God will be pouring out His Spirit on ALL nations (Joel). The falling away will be among SOME of the Tribulation Saints.
BreathOFLaminin 6 months ago
@BreathOFLaminin You know what, I like what you have pointed on here much better then what i have believed before. It would make sense of the departure or Rapture to happen first, then the man of sin be revealed. Now ofcourse, I still kinda believe perhaps this antichrist is either a muslim leader (Mahdi) or a suppose alien from outer space with powers, miracles of all sorts.
XonezIOIzenoX 6 months ago
@XonezIOIzenoX Watch my playlist "The Return of the Antichrist." You can also get Dr. Patrick Heron's book on the subject by the same name. It's excellent and uses Scripture to interpret Scripture. Myself and my whole family and even my pastor have read/listened to it many times.
The Muslim Mahdi is most likely the False Prophet...the Antichrist is actually named and we're told where he currently is in the Bible.
BreathOFLaminin 6 months ago
if you think you are left behind Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
thetruthimpart 1 year ago
it seems to me the falling away in part occured over the last 50 years and that the antichrist has been revealed now we just await the rapture.
andrewprofit 1 year ago
This is similar to my thinking on it also-- I see Revelation 11 as a fitting parallel description of this--i.e., 2 witnesses unstoppable(restraining AC from claiming to be God?) until their work is done-then killed, resurrected 3 1/2 days later(taken out of the way?), then those who survive ensuing earthquake do what? Give glory to God because AC has been 'revealed' as a liar? Hey , just somethin' to think about. May God guide us all!
1970stormspotter 1 year ago
This is just another heresy and a very strange and rare heresy INDEED this is a very personal, PRIVATE and FALSE interpretation of the truth about the restrainer. Don't you understand that Michael the mighty archangel is the restrainer? Yet you claim that because we people are not fallen away that it is the "event" that must happen and that is the restrainer.
It's a shame you have over 1,200 views on this private interpretation. God grant you understanding and repentance
7thTrumpetSound 1 year ago
@7thTrumpetSound I will admit that this is a less than popular view, however it just goes to show how confused the church has become. Consider that the Thessalonians were in utter confusion about the second coming so Paul was extremely careful to explain what events would occur. If he wanted the confused Thess to identify the restrainer as Michael, he would have told them.
skydiver626 1 year ago
@7thTrumpetSound Be careful about labeling this interpretation as a heresy and do some more homework. This interpretation is by far the most logical conclusion to be made when simply adhering to the context of chapter 2 as a whole. Also, read Dan 8:23 repeatedly then ask yourself: Could the antichrist rise to power if the transgressors had not come to the full? If you claim scripture as final authority then the answer has to be no.
There's your restrainer.
skydiver626 1 year ago
@skydiver626 the restrainer is michael read daniel 10:21 and daniel 12 in the KJV michael protects israel now until he is removed then the great tribulation will start and the antichrist will be revealed.
TrueFaith89 1 year ago
Please note that in vs 7 of II Thess. chapter 2 the restraining force is referred to as "he": "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way."
mzshone1 1 year ago
@mzshone1 PART1>As I stated in my video, the restrainer was clearly defined in verse 6. People get hung up on the fact that Paul throws a personal pronoun into verse 7. The temptation is to insert whoever fits your bill the best there (i.e. the Holy Spirit) but you must rely on the passage to do it's own interpreting...
skydiver626 1 year ago
@mzshone1 PART 2>when Paul uses "he," he's merely taking the falling away and breaking it down to an individual level. It would be like me saying: the scam going around is for us to give all our money to the wealthy. Only he who falls for this scam will be poor. Yes, it's individualized but it's not to portray a particular personality, it's there to help describe an event! Verse 7 is to be interpreted the same way.
skydiver626 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Israel rejected "Christ" "The only acceptable sacrifice, God will "never"bend to Israel's rejection; temple sacrifices will never be acceptable "ever". Dan.9 24-27 Jerusalem rebuilt in troublesome times Neh4:16 "unto" Messiah, which was cut off (crucified) the (new) covenant confirmed for 1 week (a generation) in that generation sacrifices/oblations ceased, Jerusalem destroyed by prince (Cesar), flood makes it desolate til end (days) overspreading of temple is til Christ consumes/bound devil, EZ
JoBernard12oxen 1 year ago
The words translated "taken out of the way" are usually translated in other passages as "arises (Ginomai-Strong's 1096) and from our midst" (Mesos-Strong's 3319). The topic of the passage is the coming of Jesus. 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 tells us that the man of lawlessness will be revealed before that day comes. "And now you know what is holding him (Jesus) back" > the man of lawlessness must first arise from our midst.
dennisroyse1960 1 year ago
Agreed; however, the Lord is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17).
BrotherMurray 2 years ago
The Holy Spirit is what God uses to draw His people to Himself, not to restrain evil. God uses people who have submitted to the Holy Spirit (fallible as we all are while still in the flesh) to restrain evil by standing for the Truth (Yahshua) so when the great falling away happens, then the restraint is gone and the devil runs wild (Thanks be to God it is but for a short time.) Their is no way God will "pull" out His Spirit from a lost and dying world when their are still some who will respond.
EDMAXWELL2005 2 years ago
The words translated as "taken out of the way" are usually given different translations. Using their most often used definitions would yield "arises from our midst". The topic of this passage is the coming of Jesus. Remember that in verse 3 we are told His day of return would not occur until the man of lawlessness is revealed. "And now you what is holding him (Jesus) back"> the man of lawlessness must arise from our midst first.
dennisroyse1960 2 years ago
It is written.........
Daniel 10:20-21 (Amplified Bible)
20Then he said, Do you know why I have come to you? And now I will return to fight with the [hostile] prince of Persia; and when I have gone, behold, the [hostile] prince of Greece will come. 21But I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth or the Book of Truth. There is NO ONE who holds with me and strengthens himself against these [hostile spirit forces] EXCEPT MICHAEL, your prince [national guardian angel].
GavinFinley 2 years ago
I believe the Restrainer is restraining the antichrist from being revealed, I believe the Restrainer is Michael the archangel.
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1.
RAEJAE72 2 years ago
This is the second time I've come to this video and it's not working.
bluliite 2 years ago
I just tried it and it didn't work for me either. I reloaded the page and it finally worked.
skydiver626 2 years ago
I believe that we ( the church) are people, not a "what'.
The Holy Spirit is the restrainer.
momMiriam 2 years ago
God wouldn't pull the Comforter from His people just when they will be in such desperate need of His covering.
Jesus Himself said, "I will never leave you or forsake you." -Heb.13:5
Furthermore, He has given us the Great Commission wherein He gave each and every one of his saints this promise, "Lo, I am with you always,even until the end of the age." -Mat.28:19-20 .Please look over the scriptures as the Barean's,thank you and GOD Bless.
automotivegs 2 years ago
The notion that the Holy Spirit id the restrainer that gets "taken out of the way" is not only grievously misleading demoralizing error, It is a denial of the blood covenant Christianity to which we have been called.Pause for a moment and picture, if you can, the Holy Spirit deserting the Church, the congregation of Israel, the single Elect of God. See Him walk out on the Tribulation saints in their hour of need.
automotivegs 2 years ago
The Holy Spirit cannot be "taken out of the way". King David testified that even if he went down into hell the wonderful Presence of God would be there with Him. pure and simple. At is a denial of God's end time provision and a denial of the end time outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The prophet Joel saw the peak of the Holy Spirit outpouring after the Great Tribulation at the opening of the 6th seal when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon to blood.
automotivegs 2 years ago
Comment removed
GavinFinley 2 years ago
But the proposal of a Holy Spirit vacuum on earth at the end of this age is imposible. It is also a very very unfortunate mistake of interpretation. The doctrine stating that the Holy Spirit will depart from the planet during the last 7 years of this age is more than jyst wrong. Ot is grievous dissinformation being fed to the Church. Such misinformation will have dark and dire consequences. It will demoralize the Church as it exists today.
automotivegs 2 years ago
This is truly a strange business. Is the omnipresent Holy Spirit somehow unable or incompetent to operate without the present day Church? Without the Church being here to preside over the planet must the Holy Spirit walk off, abandon the "144,00 flaming Jewish evangelists", and take leave of His divine omnipresence? and prevent the Antichrist from appearing. This fits the early rapture scenario.
automotivegs 2 years ago
So the popular view is that the Holy Spirit is the restainer of this alien Atichrist monster. The Holy Spirit is the He, (as they see it), who is 'taken out of the way' after a pre-trib Rapture. Apparently the omnipresent, omnipotent Holy Spirit, (according to this shaky line of reasoning), must depart off the planet with the rapturing Church! This is truly a strange business. Is the omnipresent Holy Spirit somehow unable or incompetent to operate without the present day Church?
automotivegs 2 years ago
They ask rhetorically, "Who else but the Holy Spirit can restrain the Antichrist from being revealed?" Since no alternatives are offered they then proceed to construct a scenario in which the omnipotent, omnipresent Holy Spirit takes up guard duty to be the restrainer of the Antichrist.
So the popular view is that the Holy Spirit is the restainer of this alien Atichrist monster. The Holy Spirit is the He, (as they see it), who is 'taken out of the way' after a pre-trib Rapture.
automotivegs 2 years ago
automotivegs - Although I DO NOT believe the H. Spirit is the restrainer, I should note that those pre-trib scholars who do hold that view are not teaching that He will leave the earth (obviously He is omnipresent); what they teach is that He will be removed only from His supposed present role of restraiing sin but that He will still be on earth performing His other ministries during the Trib.
james46888 2 years ago
The passage above is from the New American Standard Bible. This version, (along with the KJV), would in this instance appear to render a more trustworthy translation of this critical portion of scripture in 2Thes. 2.
The identification of the restrainer as the Holy Spirit is a reckoning of last resort. Or as we say in medicine, it is a "dustbin diagnosis". Classically pre-trib teachers have begged the question.
automotivegs 2 years ago
This is most unfortunate. They had no textual basis for doing this. The original Greek manuscripts provide no basis whatsoever for assigning capital letters. There is no upper or lower case lettering in the Greek manuscripts themselves. The New King James is a very good version generally and more readable for us today than the KJV. The author uses it a lot. But here we see another of many occasions in which the 1611 King James version brings us the more reliable and truthful translation.
automotivegs 2 years ago
Let us turn our attention now to spirit beings. What are we to say about the Holy Spirit being a possible contender for the role of the restrainer of the Antichrist? He is certainly a person. The New King James Bible has curiously 'helped' to promote this interpretation of the Holy Spirit as the restrainer of the Antichrist. The NKJV translation committee has presumed to interpret the 'he who restrains' as a 'He', that is, Deity.
automotivegs 2 years ago
so u think michael the angel is holding
back the anti christ well hes not becase
the holy spirit him back the anti christ
i belive is more powerful then the angels
only god can make not revel himself
untill rapture.
nikboss3000 2 years ago
yall dont get it do u the holy spirit is the one holding the anti christ NOTHING else can do it.
nikboss3000 2 years ago
In Daniel 10:12,13& 20 who was it that was restraining the angelic powers of Medo-Persia and allowing Gabriel, the angelic messenger from God's throne to get through to Daniel with the endtime information? Just who executes God's will concerning spirits of darkness, principalities and powers and the ruling angelic princes?
automotivegs 2 years ago
Okay, so I'm not sure I "get it". So the apostacy was going on even when Paul was around, but now the apastacy is rampant. Therefore, the antichrist is more appearant to us now? Please explain. (Matthew 23:8 But you, do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren - Sure got a lot of Rabbi's in the church today)
YeshuaPhreak 2 years ago
Let me ask you: Could the antichrist rise to power if the whole world was true bible believers? Not a chance. His true nature would be exposed immediately. In that way, satan must deceive the majority into something other than the gospel. Only then are they ripe for the antichrist because they will have forgotten the truth of God's word. This deception or falling away must come to FULL as Daniel stated before the antichrist can rise.
skydiver626 2 years ago
Well fortunately we do not need to guess. The Bible tells us quite clearly who it is that holds back or restrains hostile spirit forces on behalf of God's covenant people. Gabriel is speaking here and he says,
10:21 "But I will tell you what is inscribed in the.....Book of Truth. There is no one who holds with me or strengthens himself against these hostile spirit forces except Michael your prince, (national guardian angel). -Dan.10:21
automotivegs 2 years ago
So, the apostate church restrains the antichrist? Or is it that there is an inverse relationship between the level of apostacy in the church and the degree of restaint on the spirit of antichrist?
Ebo9508 2 years ago
It's the time it takes for the apostasy to come into full. The falling away encapsulates not only those who have stepped away from the faith but also those who have the spirit of antichrist: Ephes 2:2... the (antichrist)spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
skydiver626 2 years ago
Yeah, I get you. It's an inverse relationship. The more apsotacy and spirit of antichrist in the church, the less restrant there is to the emergence of the man of sin.
Ebo9508 2 years ago
Interesting piece. I thought that the "one" who was restraining the antichrist was Michael the archangel (in accordance with Daniel 12:1). Because after Michael arises/stands then there will be great trouble/tribulation. However I can see fm comparison of scripture in ur video how u may be correct. Bless!
LJCampbell25 2 years ago
LJC.. Yes you are correct. Michael is the restrainer. This person is off their rocker.
Freewillheresy 2 years ago 2
I can see where they're coming from though. However after some more study I still believe the one who is holding the anti-christ from unleashing "hell on earth" is Michael the archangel.
LJCampbell25 2 years ago 2
He is
automotivegs 2 years ago
*****
TribulationWarrior 2 years ago
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. i wonder if there's a rule in english allowing what to be a person? It can refer to a person-- Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
filoIII 2 years ago
+ No word can replace the "Holy Spirit". Satan is not on earth, he is bound. But he is here spiritually. He = Arch Angel
jonngabe 2 years ago
the fallen angels in genesis 6 are bound satan is not. and will not be bound till the first judgment after the 7 years tribulation
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
Matthew 24:31
Show one scripture where the LAST trumpet is blown before the 7 year trib statrs.
in Matt 24 28-31 its Jesus himself speaking saying he will not come back for his church= (elect )until afAFTER the trbulation
nopretrib 2 years ago
you need to re-read it again
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
Matt 24
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. you need to re-read it
SilentPrayingmanTis
nopretrib 2 years ago
The book of Matthew is for the jews not the body of Christ.
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
You may as well throw the gospel books away then because Jesus was always addressing the Jews. Does that mean that anything he said doesn't apply to us? Of course not. Then how to determine what subjects you can pick and choose? The "it's for the Jews" argument is the most ridiculous way to try avoid accountability.
skydiver626 2 years ago
Thats not waht i said please dont put words in my mouth. The book of Matthew as well as the other 3 Mark Luke and John were ment for the Kingdom on earth. The jews rejected their preching Inthe book of acts then in chapter 13 Paul (Saul) they carried on to the Gentiles. Their are 2 doctrien in the bible the Kindom Gospel and one for the body of Christ through justification. thats were all the confusion comes in. if you dont get it thats fine as long as you believe in Christ your good.
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
Gal.3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
nopretrib 2 years ago