@aplohezy No, because anti-life would be inaccurate of describing someone who is pro-choice. Pro-choice means you believe it is up to each individual woman to decide for themselves what they want to do. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. It means exactly what it says, pro-choice. Welcome to 2011.
Roe v Wade only reiterates that everyone has a right to do what they want privately. Some people believe in Pro-Life and some people believe in Pro-Choice. Is it not reasonable then for everyone to make their own decisions based on their personal beliefs without any input from the government? In this way, the women who really want/need an abortion don't have to get one either out of state or illegally and the women who don't believe in abortion can just not get one.
Sarah Palin is actually pro choice...she just doesn't know it. She doesn't want the big federal government to impose it's mandate on states. She wants localized control of decision making depending on what people in the local constituency believe. Taken to it's logical conclusion, this argument is for an individual's choice on their body.
@thirakwa Umm, in Roe vs Wade, no one is forced to have an abortion or agree with abortion. The Supreme Court decision is actually a better representation of preserving individual liberty, than a popular vote in the states.
@OneCatholic let's see. an absolutist on abortion and a defender of capital punishment and the iraq war. there is assumption and there is basic logic.
@OneCatholic you cited the church's real teaching on war and the death penalty that made MY case. maybe you should reread what you sent. anyone who votes for the death penalty and voted for the iraq war is voting against the teachings of the catholic church. that may be inconvient for your politics, but it doesn't change the fact. that you can't square these things in your head really isn't my problem.
@OneCatholic what you sent me says capital punishment is justifiable if it is the ONLY means to defend other lives. that's very obviously not the case. and if it isn't, capital punishment is NOT justified and politicians who vote for it are going against the teachings of the church.
@tishhead "what you sent me says capital punishment is justifiable"
That is all it was supposed to do. We never discussed whether or not modern society matches or does not match this standard. This started because you claimed that the Death Penalty ABSOLUTELY opposed the Church. This is false. Do you understand?
@OneCatholic doesn't your brain get twisted with all the tortured justifications? we live in modern society. the catholic politicians who vote for capital punishment are doing so in modern society. if the only justification for capital punishment doesn't exist anymore, then yes, the church DOES absolutely oppose capital punishment. you have a pathological need to be declared right. what would really help that is BEING right.
@tishhead " the church DOES absolutely oppose capital punishment."
That statement is false, and the premises leading up to it do not satisfy it. The Church condones capital punishment in the case that it is necessary. Absolute means in all cases. You erred in not knowing what "absolute" meant, just like you didn't know what "hypocrisy" meant.
You just had to be right, I guess. Funny, I just read the rest of your post. lol
@OneCatholic you have painted yourself into a tiny little corner and i think even you realize that now. if the church carves out an exception that no longer exists, the prohibition is, in THIS world, at THIS time, where catholic politicians are voting, absolute.
as for your 2nd pt, everyone argues with the hope of being considered right. most of us don't feel compelled to beg, as you have done on multiple occasions, "just say you're wrong. pleeese" buck up, man.
@tishhead "where catholic politicians are voting [is] absolute."
Why did you say this? You were trying to argue that the Church's teaching was absolute. It is not. Since you couldn't prove that, you just switch over to whether a voting decision is absolute?
The reason I ask you to admit you are wrong is because you for some reason can't. You would feel better.
@OneCatholic the teaching is absolute that the only possible justification for capital punishment is defense of the population at large. since that is not in play for the catholic politicians who support capital punishment, yes, they are violating the teaching of the church. it's not a close call. you are clinging so desperately to some theoretical argument to avoid the obvious truth. you are a raging hypocrite. those politicians are working against the church but you give them a pass.
@OneCatholic the theoretical argument i referred to is your frankly pathetic attempt to wriggle your way into excusing pro-death penalty and pro-iraq massacre politicians. the church stands for the sanctity of life over virtually anything else and those 2 stances are profoundly anti-life. i can't make you face up to your own hypocrisy. you have to have the integrity to do that yourself.
oh, and i'm glad you're such a stickler against rudeness. or else i might take 'troll' as an insult.
@tishhead "excusing pro-death penalty and pro-iraq massacre politicians"
And please, please, don't try to red herring again here with your awful straw manning. We both know that I was talking solely about the absolute stance on the Church--the literal, written-down doctrine.
Never have I defended one politician. This whole thing started because I dared suggest that your precious Biden was a bad Catholic.
How ironic is that? I criticize a politician and you accuse me of defending one. xD
@OneCatholic you are one of the most singularly dishonest people i have ever encountered in here. of course you were defending pro-death (after birth) politicians. and your own screeching hypocrisy. please don't embarrass yourself further. you have every right to be against abortion. but your hiding behind your religion and unwillingness to face obvious truths is beyond pathetic. you really need to do some deep thinking about yourself.
@zackmartin00 Warped hyperbole on top of media exaggeration and disinformation in an ill-founded attempt to prove yet again that you don't know how to argue.
You don't need my assistance to lose this argument.
@OneCatholic Wow... Do you realize that you actually said nothing with that statement? Exaggeration? Did you iniw that EVERY catholic church in Belgium..that's right..the whole country..has had cases of molestation?
@OneCatholic You are such a trolling douche. Open up your mind, and accept there is no god. Nice way of avoiding that you were completely wrong. You aren't even intelligible, just arrogant. Catholicism is on its last leg.
@OneCatholic YOU have argued that politicians can keep their faith out of political decisions whether it's divorce, iraq or the death penalty. if you're going to argue that the church doesn't absolutely oppose the iraq war, you have lurched completely off the rails. the requirements for just war are clear and iraq war doesn't come close to meeting them. you might as will give the iraqis a pass for taking kuwait or germany for taking austria and czechoslovakia.
@tishhead " YOU have argued that politicians can keep their faith out of political decisions"
Obvious straw man is obvious. And it's just as obvious that you have no pride whatsoever. I said, very clearly, that a Catholic does not have the option to compromise their faith in the political sphere. You have no excuse for misrepresenting something I said outright, to you, right here. You are a joke.
@tishhead "YOU have argued that politicians can keep their faith out of political decisions"
Obvious straw man is obvious. And it's just as obvious that you have no pride whatsoever. I said, very clearly, that a Catholic does NOT have the option to compromise their faith in the political sphere.
You have no excuse for misrepresenting something I said outright, to you, right here. You are a joke.
@OneCatholic Pope John Paul II said repeatedly and forcefully that the Iraq war failed the test of the just war. your ignorance and your hypocrisy are now running neck and neck. btw you complained twice about me making assumptions about you, yet you have obviously done the same. you don't even know my thoughts about abortion. i have not discussed them here. i'm merely calling YOU out on your hypocrisy.
Referencing what you posted hardly compares to you assuming my feelings on what you post. Why don't you look up what "assumption" means. It's obvious at this point that you're only here to be obnoxious and to make light very serious matters. I should have known you were a fake Catholic yourself.
@OneCatholic what have i posted that states my views on abortion? this is about YOUR hypocrisy. and no i'm not a fake catholic. i'm not a catholic at all. i was raised as one but got off board when i reached the age of reason. apparently, however, i have a firmer grasp of what it means to follow the church's teachings than you do.
@OneCatholic well, i guess incoherence is a step up from hypocrisy. you said you referenced my previous posts to conclude that i think life is a game (or some such nonsense). what posts? again, you don't even know what my stance on abortion is. and how is calling you out for your cafeteria catholicism blaspheming the church?
@tishhead "well, i guess incoherence is a step up from hypocrisy."
Two false claims you couldn't defend if your life depended on it. Tell me, do you have anything honest to say? I know you're all about misrepresentations and lies, but I'm sure you could muster a surprise for me.
@tishhead " or are you just reduced to ad hominem attacks now?"
If I've been "reduced" in any sense, it's only due to your numerous and plentiful examples of true ignorance. By the way, ad hominem, huh? Another word you apparently don't know the meaning of.
An ad hominem is a personal attack. Its definition does not depend on being true. Is there anything you know what you're talking about?
@tishhead I don't know where people like you get off.
Did you see that I was Catholic and so plan out this laughable tirade of misinformation, mimicry and pretended stupidity, or have you really been serious this whole time?
@OneCatholic apparently, you answered my question. you ARE reduced to ad hominem attacks. here's a helpful suggestion, just because i care: i enjoy insults as much as the next guy, but you might want to include actual arguments if you're going to debate.
@tishhead "apparently, you answered my question."
So if I argue with your use of "reduced" with a play on words, somehow that equates to condoning your misconceived insult cries? You are more confused than I thought.
@OneCatholic that would be picking and choosing which teachings of the church to follow and you would be a textbook example of same. the church is absolute unless it gets in the way of your politics. again, you're entitled to your opinions on all these subjects. it's the hiding behind the church's skirts on some issues while ignoring the church on others that makes you a hypocrite.
@tishhead " while ignoring the church on others" + "unless it gets in the way of your politics"
Do you see these two quotations? They are both false. You may not choose to ignore the Church when it comes to politics. And you can not quote one example where I argued against the Church. You are a troll.
@OneCatholic i actually already did. and you dismissed it because apparently you didn't think john paul was a legitimate pope or something. the church believes in the defense of life "until natural death." and in war only in the context of self-defense. you can play mental twister all you want but you can't come up with a way to defend catholic politicians who advocate cap punishment and the iraq war.
@OneCatholic you actually can't see your hypocrisy can you? "discerned as just by some politicians"? so they are free to substitute their judgement for the church's as expressed by the pope? pope JP was VERY clear that this did not meet the criteria of a just war. he did everything short of joining the anti-war marches. and capital punishment is only legitimate as the ONLY means to defend people. clearly in this day and age that is not true. your rationalizations are becoming absurd.
@tishhead "so they are free to substitute their judgement for the church's"
Nope. They are responsible for determining whether or not a war is just. The teaching of the Church allows for a just war. They are not determining what kind of war is just; they are only determining if it is.
@OneCatholic this is just getting sad. a politician can determine on their own what a just war is? uh, no. there are specific requirements and iraq didn't come anywhere close to meeting them. and yes, i know what hypocrisy is and rarely in my life have i seen a better example.
@tishhead You are upset because you really felt like you were right, and since this is YouTube you expected an equally hot-headed and ignorant person to talk to, but now you have no idea how to react when I actually know what I'm talking about--and I refuse to be called your hot-finger favorite insult "hypocrite" without reason.
@OneCatholic i believe i see the ugly face of projection here. actually, i'm far more amused than upset. second, i know exactly how to react -- swat down your feeble rationalizations, which isn't difficult. i would be insulting your intelligence NOT to call you a hypocrite, given your stance. there literally is no other word for it.
I implied Biden was a bad Catholic. This set you off, because your misinformation led you to believe a Catholic could oppose the Church in politics and be A-okay. You also thought Biden never opposed the Church. You were wrong on both counts. Biden is a bad Catholic.
@OneCatholic ok if you're in the mood to review. i called you out as a hypocrite because you won't condemn equally (or at all) the catholic politicians who go against the church on other issues.
@tishhead Here, how about you stop pretending you are a Catholic apologist? I have proved you wrong more than once, and I have yet to receive an apology.
@OneCatholic you have not come within hailing distance of proving anything other than your hypocrisy. you don't even have the beginnings of a case here. biden going against the church? unforgiveable. deathers and war-mongers? hey, they think they're doing the right thing, so we'll give em a pass.
@tishhead I'm not going to let you forget what started this ridiculous and foolish political dribble of yours:
I said Biden was supposed to be Catholic. That's it.
Is he? No. He has been excommunicated on more than one count. He openly goes against the Church.
Can you accept this? No. You're trying as hard as you can to make it seem like you have anything to argue, but you don't know the Church, you don't understand papal infallibility, and you don't know what "hypocrisy" means.. Just stop!
Your constant referrals to your John Paul II quote have to stop. The quote does not mean what you think. It is not an authorized statement on the Church's teaching. And it does not conflict with the teaching to begin with. Come on, man!
@OneCatholic oh good, another game of intellectual twister. what YOU quoted me doesn't justify capital punishment. the only excuse is if there is no other means of protecting other lives. obviously, that isn't the case. the church is clearly, clearly against capital punishment.
@OneCatholic oh please do, especially since it argues my case. then, maybe i can quote the endless parade of statements from the church and from individual cardinals laying out the case against the death penalty. it's not a borderline issue much as you would like for it to be.
@tishhead " maybe i can quote the endless parade of statements from the church and from individual cardinals laying out the case against the death penalty. "
To prove what? That cardinals don't like the death penalty? Guess what that proves? That cardinals don't like the death penalty.
You wanted to argue that THE CHURCH does NOT excuse the death penalty. It does in some cases. Do you know what that means? That you were WRONG? Do you know why? Because you argued that it never excused it.
To in any way assist someone in procuring an abortion is grounds for excommunication. Biden is not a Catholic. You are blinded by the media and your refusal to think outside of your political sphere, choosing instead cling to ridiculous rationalizations. Game over.
@OneCatholic so should catholic bus drivers grill their female passengers as to their destination? should employers demand that their female employees sign no-abortion clauses? after all the salary could be going toward an abortion. maybe catholic workers for the telephone company should refuse to distribute the yellow pages with numbers of planned parenthood in them.
Game over? i didn't realize i was debating a 13-year-old. or is that an hommage to the egyptian demonstrators?
Sarah Palin is the dumbest fucking bitch I have ever seen in my entire life. Americans don't do themselves any favor giving her air time. Wow, I would love to cut open her skull to see if there is some grey matter in her brain. I hope she runs again for president for the sake of comedy.
Good lord, does she have a brain? How do you run for VP and not have some laws and federal decisions that you agree and disagree with? At least Biden has an opinion, based on facts or beliefs and not just a willy nilly muttering about anything to avoid the issue.
@OneCatholic what is he doing? representing the entire country, not just catholics. the church doesn't believe in right to remarry after divorce, but i don't see anyone pushing to make that the law. and while you're at it, why aren't you asking that question of catholic politicians who support capital punishment or supported the war in iraq?
@OneCatholic i took a chance. betting on hypocrisy from the right is usually a safe bet. if you can point me to your posts ripping catholic politicians who advocate the death penalty or supported the war in iraq, i'll be glad to retract. should biden also be pushing to make remarriage illegal?
@tishhead "betting on hypocrisy from the right is usually a safe bet."
So you're one of those drones who pigeonholes people into media-based social contexts without turning on the brain and thinking for yourself? Revealing.
I called you out on assumption and I was right to do so. It stops there.
And let's stop pretending remarriage is somehow an issue an ex-Catholic politician should be concerned with, as Catholic marriage is a sacrament and not an issue of the government.
@OneCatholic actually, i'm one of those persons who pigeonholes the right wing based on my own observations. after a few hundred examples of absurd hypocrisy such as your own, i come to the conclusion that betting on hypocrisy from the right is a safe bet. not a sure bet but a safe one. and certainly a winning one in this case. marriage in general is certainly an issue of govt when rights flow from marriage. you still haven't addressed those who support capital punishment and the iraq war.
@tishhead "after a few hundred examples of absurd hypocrisy such as your own"
Except that I'm not a hypocrite, and furthermore, there are no examples of me being one here. Did you forget that when you talk big, it has to be true to mean anything?
And second of all, you're a jerk. Who do you think you are insulting people on traits you assume they have, based on the ignorant stereotypes you hold? I'm a real person, since you forgot.
@OneCatholic you are a raging hypocrite. abortion sets you off. fine. but don't hide behind your religion when you attack pro-choice catholics if you're not going to walk the walk on other issues like capital punishment and the war in iraq.
@tishhead But the insanity can't stop there, can it?
- "but don't hide behind your religion when you attack pro-choice catholics"
So my critiquing an alleged Catholic, who you claim can hold anti-Catholic views whilst remaining Catholic, equates "attacking" them, all the while "hiding behind my religion?"
Maybe you wanted a game of Hide and Seek, but I'm sick of hypocrites like YOU who want to bend the rules and corrupt the faith. I'm here to EXPOSE you, Biden, and all pretend Catholics.
@OneCatholic who says biden holds anti-catholic views. he may well view abortion as being a sin, just as he may view remarriage as being illegitimate. but he was a senator and now vice president who represents ALL of his constituents, not just catholics. just as the 2 muslim members of congress aren't trying to incorporate their religious beliefs into law. you seem to be coming perilously close to advocating a religious test for holding office, which is explicitly forbidden in the constitution.
Biden names one Supreme Court Decision, which he was aware of because it involved the Supreme Court disagreeing with him. Palin could not name any, and so she reiterated that there were probably some she disagreed with, reiterating that she stood for a state-level mediation for such laws.
And based on this, Palin is apparently dumb. As far as any of you know, Biden did not know even know of one more supreme court decision. I do think Palin should have said, "None that I can think of right now."
@OneCatholic not being able to name, say, dred scott or plessy v ferguson was bad enough. but palin said she agreed there was a right to privacy inherent in the constitution and then said it should be left up to the states. that shows a spectacular lack of understanding of how this country works. constitutional rights cannot be left up to the states. alabama cannot decide to do away with freedom of speech or free assembly.
@tishhead You are a coward. You continue to sling insults at me because you see I'm Catholic and so assume a handful of traits about me that you know are dead wrong.
@OneCatholic and i have given you many opportunities to demonstrate that you are NOT a hypocrite. apparently you are incapable of that. you claim biden (and i assume kerry, kennedy et al) are lapsed catholics because they were pro-choice but offer no criticism of the sort for catholic pols who are pro-capital punishment or advocated the invasion of a country that posed no threat to us, sounds like you have replaced the teachings of the church and judgment of the pope with your own judgment.
@tishhead "and i have given you many opportunities to demonstrate that you are NOT a hypocrite"
I'm sorry, but what kind of stupid thing to say is that? If I have done nothing hypocritical, then I am not a hypocrite. The end. What kind of backwards logic are you running?
"and i assume"
You sure got that right. You have no business behaving the way you are. Even for the Internet, you are low. The slam against the Pope was going too far.
@OneCatholic ok, now you have moved past mere hypocrisy to being deranged. this is now 6 chances i believe for you to explain why you attack biden, kerry etc but not the supporters of the death penalty and iraq war. whiff. then you claim i'm slamming the pope. huh? i'm slamming YOU, dude for thinking you can substitute your judgment for that of the church and the pope.
@tishhead " for thinking you can substitute your judgment for that of the church and the pope."
Just like I'm slamming you for supporting 9/11 and illegal drug trafficking. I can do that because you have never once said you didn't support these things.
This is how a stupid person argues--by assuming that everything a person doesn't talk about, they must support. Coincidentally, this is how you argue.
@tishhead And finally: "i'm slamming YOU, dude for thinking you can substitute your judgment for that of the church and the pope."
To suggest that the pope in any way, shape or form opposes anything I have said is to blatantly misrepresent the Pope and is absolutely a slam against him. If you think otherwise, you have thought wrong.
@OneCatholic well, let's try it for a 7th time. did you have the same criticism for catholic politicians who support the death penalty and/or the invasion of iraq? the church's position on those issues is quite clear. by saying you were substituting your judgment for that of the pope, i was saying you were deciding which of the teachings of the church (abortion) were important and which (death penalty and iraq) weren't. btw if i wanted to slam this pope it would be over his record on abuse.
@tishhead "did you have the same criticism for catholic politicians who support the death penalty and/or the invasion of iraq?"
Why are you posing to know Catholicism when you are obviously so ignorant?
2267 "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor."
@OneCatholic "I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform."
@OneCatholic ah, so you know more about being catholic than a pope. saying that in certain circles could get you in a lot of trouble. so you attack me for "slamming" the pope and then you do the same. your hypocrisy knows no bounds. of course, what you quoted actually refutes your own argument, but you don't appear capable of understanding that. clearly the death penalty isn't "the only possible way" of defending human lives.
This is what's really happening with abortion, Dr. Kermit Gosnell an abortion doctor who catered to minorities, immigrants and poor women was charged with eight counts of murder in the deaths of a patient and seven babies who were born alive and then killed with scissors, prosecutors said last Wednesday.
Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, made millions of dollars over 30 years, performing as many illegal, late-term abortions as he could, prosecutors said.
Atheistram- check your comment to zemestrical of Nov18/10. You did say when a baby is still in the mothers stomach. So you're a student; you know nothing about me or what I do or do not know about anatomy so....nah, nah... Sheeesh!
@atheistram if you want to send me comments, how about something worthwhile, like hm... a good point you have to make or something interesting and that will make me think, 'Wow! I had not considered that! I'm going to ask about how you came to that conclusion! Or; no, I disagree and this is the reason why...... You know, like intelligent, civilised people do. Other than that, please don't interupt my day with the equivalent of brain junk food, ok? Thanks :)
@atheistram yep, that was totally worthwhile! For someone who is supposedly working on their PhD you sure have a lot of time on your hands for nonsense. When I was in university I was too busy working and studying to spend time on moronic remarks to strangers. Do you think you are some great wit or what? Sorry, you're not.
@atheistram wow! six pointless messages to me in a period of 15 minutes! I guess this is why I belong to MENSA and you are a loser spending his day insulting strangers on YouTube. Get a life.
@chatelaine19 You're the one who started off insulting me. Somehow I doubt you belong to MENSA since you can't even grasp the law of cause and effect. :D
Damn, she can't even fake being clueless. I've been watching debates and interviews since the mid 60's. I can't recall any candidate for president or vice lacking of any knowledge.
I am pro-life, and pro gay rights. I asked a friend a hypothetical question that goes like this: Suppose that one day doctors will be able to scan for the gay gene (if there is such a thing) in a fetus, in the first trimester of pregnancy. Now suppose a pregnant woman learns that her child will one day be a homosexual. Upon learning this fact she decides immediately to terminate the pregnancy. Should her actions be greeted with hostility?
I am pro-choice and always will be. Pro-lifers should not be called 'pro-life'. You are merely anti-choice. When a person says they are pro-choice, it means they are leaving the option of whether or not to have an abortion, up to the woman who is actually going to be affected by it.
Well then maybe you should be called Anti-life. That sounds much worse than anti-choice doesn't it. Did you know Jane Roe who fought for the right for abortion is now pro-life?
If you're "Not ready" for a child, then don't make one!!! Don't have sex!!! That's what sex is for! To make babies!!! What do you think is going to happen? If you have sex and do not produce a baby then you have failed! Pleasure is a by-product of having sex. So stop being so freaking selfish and just wanting to please yourself at the expense of another person's life!!! If you have an abortion, then you should have your tubes tied, and never be allowed to have children in your care [exceptions]
@bronco8585 Like incest... this is the ONLY type of case where there can be a choice to kill that child. Rape and incest should be the only times it is even allowed to be considered!
@bronco8585 That's what most people in the world do. They're against murder so they don't do it. A bunch of cells isn't human, thus killing that bunch of cells isn't murder.
@bronco8585 Additionally, if you're against abortion you must be against masturbation as every time a male jerks off, he kills millions of potential humans.
@atheistram That's like saying if a man ejaculates while 'trying to have a baby' with a woman, then he is also killing millions of potential humans, because only 1 makes it... Then a woman going through her menstrual cycle kills potential humans too?? No, your reasoning does not make sense... Sexual intercourse is for procreating. So if you don't want to procreate, then don't engage in the act of procreating, then after you have procreated, kill the poor child!! It's simple really...
@bronco8585 I take it your against Gay marriage. If sexual intercourse is for procreating should two infertile humans (man and woman) be allowed to marry or have sex??
And your example is a false dichotomy. Having sex is different than masturbation. When you have sex (without protection) there is always the possibility of having child. When a man masturbates there is zero chance.
One more thing, at the exact moment and shortly thereafter when the sperm meets the egg the result is not a child!!
@bronco8585 Who decided that every potential possibility for new life was all that mattered? That is ridiculous! The Earth is over-populated already. The imperative to have sex has nothing to do with procreation, so to tell people to not have sex if they don't want a child is living in a fantasyland. This is just another excuse for the anti-sex crusaders. If you are so fearful of sex, don't do it, but don't tell others what to do. Pleasure is a gift.
@chatelaine19 "Who decided that every potential possibility for new life was all that mattered? That is ridiculous! The Earth is over-populated already. The imperative to have sex has nothing to do with procreation, so to tell people to not have sex if they don't want a child is living in a fantasyland. This is just another excuse for the anti-sex crusaders. If you are so fearful of sex, don't do it, but don't tell others what to do. Pleasure is a gift."
Correction: "How can you say "woah too far" when I suggest some girl who gets pregnant via rape or incest should be met with the punishment given to people who commit first degree murder?" should have had a "and gets an abortion" in there somewhere.
There are a lot of social issues out there that have lingered in the realm of uncertainty for so long that the morally correct path finally becomes obvious. Despite what some say, abortion and a woman's right to choose is the correct course of action. I'm tired of Republicans telling people not to take a 'human life' when they support capital punishment. I'm even more frustrated at religious fanatics who rely on a book written 2000 years ago that has more contextual holes than Swiss cheese
I think the womans choice bears more heavily on the issue than the man involved, if there is a man involved. But, if the man would be around if she had the baby, and would support both the mother and the child should she have it, then i think the man's opinion should also be taken into consideration.
I don't think it's a woman's right to kill a life. No matter how long they have been pregnant. Some women get abortions when they are 7-8 months pregnant. Literally killing the baby. What would those people who have been aborted over the years say? Abortion is really like putting a gun to the baby's head and throwing him/her in the garbage because "you're not ready", if you're not then give the kid for adoption...
@zemetrical Yeah, for sure. I hope they repeal Roe v. Wade, and then whenever a teenage girl raped by her father or brother tries to get an abortion, we sentence her to life in prison for first degree murder. And if she's 18 and in the right state, we should sentence her to death. Any woman who chooses not to have a baby should be incarcerated or executed, just as we do with everyone else who commits pre-meditated murder.
I used to be totally fine with abortion. It honestly did not bother me, and I was like yeah well if it's rape or the dad was someone horrible then they should have the right to get the abortion. But when I learned more and more about this topic, the whole idea seriously started making me sick. I think people are just being ignorant of the fact that they ARE killing a child. That didn't get to my head till recently. I hope you do
@zemetrical How exactly am I taking it too far? If it's a child, then any abortion for ANY reason is first degree murder. And that's either life in prison or the death penalty. What punishment do we mete out to women who kill their 1 year old children? How can you say "woah too far" when I suggest some girl who gets pregnant via rape or incest should be met with the punishment given to people who commit first degree murder? Is it a child or isn't it?
@BigMikeMcBastard Well, Big Mike, I would like to see the fetus implanted in you and then you could be forced to deliver rectally. Or at the very least you could be made financially responsible in cases of rape or incest. Since you think you have a right to make the decision for the victim, then you should be responsible.
@deesantucci You realize that I'm using satire to point out how stupid it is to try and deny women control over their own bodies based on the notion that a zygote or blastocyst is as much a person as the women they develop within, right? That I don't actually believe any of the things I wrote are good ideas, but that they are nonetheless logical extensions of the "life begins at conception" stuff the anti-choice crowd harps on about?
@BigMikeMcBastard your own research and study what this actually means. And don't get angry at people who are not selfish and are just thinking about themselves. The child's life is not your own to take away.
@zemetrical Sure it is. When the baby's still in the mother's stomach and it's before the second trimester, every woman should have the right (if they so choose) to abort the fetus.
@atheistram- please learn some basic anatomy and biology! Babies/ fetuses are not carried in a mother's stomach! A stomach is part of the digestive system; babies are carried in an organ called a 'uterus', which is part of the reproductive system in all mammals. Good Grief! Do you know anything about female anatomy? Hopefully you know where the clitoris is and what it is for!!
@zemetrical well what about situations where it would be the best decision? Such as an illness of the woman where if she has the baby she would die herself, or if the child has an illness where it would suffer more to live than to be aborted within the first 5 months. I don't think on abortion there is a complete yes answer or no answer, to many situations where it would needed or wanted.
@ryankd84 Actually I've talked about this with people,and that is the only time I think it's sort of ok for the abortion. Knowing both the mother and baby will die, then at least saving one life is a big deal.
@zemetrical The only people who can get a legal abortion when the fetus is 7-8 months are women who's lives would be in grave danger if they had the baby. Would you rather kill the mother or the fetus? Your choice.
@aplohezy No, because anti-life would be inaccurate of describing someone who is pro-choice. Pro-choice means you believe it is up to each individual woman to decide for themselves what they want to do. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. It means exactly what it says, pro-choice. Welcome to 2011.
cass07laughs 2 months ago 5
Roe v Wade only reiterates that everyone has a right to do what they want privately. Some people believe in Pro-Life and some people believe in Pro-Choice. Is it not reasonable then for everyone to make their own decisions based on their personal beliefs without any input from the government? In this way, the women who really want/need an abortion don't have to get one either out of state or illegally and the women who don't believe in abortion can just not get one.
SauraElanthier 6 months ago
Sarah Palin is actually pro choice...she just doesn't know it. She doesn't want the big federal government to impose it's mandate on states. She wants localized control of decision making depending on what people in the local constituency believe. Taken to it's logical conclusion, this argument is for an individual's choice on their body.
thirakwa 9 months ago
@thirakwa Umm, in Roe vs Wade, no one is forced to have an abortion or agree with abortion. The Supreme Court decision is actually a better representation of preserving individual liberty, than a popular vote in the states.
Fishqueen1972 8 months ago
In each of these, you were wrong. There is no matter of interpretation or opinion; you were just wrong.
It was inconsiderate and rude each time you decided to change the subject instead of being honest with yourself.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead "that may be inconvient for your politics"
And what exactly are my politics? You assume and assume until you are sick.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic let's see. an absolutist on abortion and a defender of capital punishment and the iraq war. there is assumption and there is basic logic.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "a defender of capital punishment and the iraq war"
Oh, am I? Quote me.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
In case you haven't been following, here is a summation:
- You called me a hypocrite because I opposed Biden.
- You later justified this claiming I "failed to mention" politicians who support capital punishment or war.
- I cite Bidens anti-Catholic voting record, which is not allowed by the Church.
- I cite the Church's REAL teaching on war and the death penalty.
- I am, consequently, not a hypocrite.
And you are, consequently, out of steam, and definitely any pride.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic you cited the church's real teaching on war and the death penalty that made MY case. maybe you should reread what you sent. anyone who votes for the death penalty and voted for the iraq war is voting against the teachings of the catholic church. that may be inconvient for your politics, but it doesn't change the fact. that you can't square these things in your head really isn't my problem.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "that made MY case"
Oh? I missed the part where you said you were wrong and changed your opinion to match mine.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic what you sent me says capital punishment is justifiable if it is the ONLY means to defend other lives. that's very obviously not the case. and if it isn't, capital punishment is NOT justified and politicians who vote for it are going against the teachings of the church.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "what you sent me says capital punishment is justifiable"
That is all it was supposed to do. We never discussed whether or not modern society matches or does not match this standard. This started because you claimed that the Death Penalty ABSOLUTELY opposed the Church. This is false. Do you understand?
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic doesn't your brain get twisted with all the tortured justifications? we live in modern society. the catholic politicians who vote for capital punishment are doing so in modern society. if the only justification for capital punishment doesn't exist anymore, then yes, the church DOES absolutely oppose capital punishment. you have a pathological need to be declared right. what would really help that is BEING right.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead " the church DOES absolutely oppose capital punishment."
That statement is false, and the premises leading up to it do not satisfy it. The Church condones capital punishment in the case that it is necessary. Absolute means in all cases. You erred in not knowing what "absolute" meant, just like you didn't know what "hypocrisy" meant.
You just had to be right, I guess. Funny, I just read the rest of your post. lol
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic you have painted yourself into a tiny little corner and i think even you realize that now. if the church carves out an exception that no longer exists, the prohibition is, in THIS world, at THIS time, where catholic politicians are voting, absolute.
as for your 2nd pt, everyone argues with the hope of being considered right. most of us don't feel compelled to beg, as you have done on multiple occasions, "just say you're wrong. pleeese" buck up, man.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead Why do you feel the need to exaggerate and misrepresent what I say? I know why.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead "where catholic politicians are voting [is] absolute."
Why did you say this? You were trying to argue that the Church's teaching was absolute. It is not. Since you couldn't prove that, you just switch over to whether a voting decision is absolute?
The reason I ask you to admit you are wrong is because you for some reason can't. You would feel better.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic the teaching is absolute that the only possible justification for capital punishment is defense of the population at large. since that is not in play for the catholic politicians who support capital punishment, yes, they are violating the teaching of the church. it's not a close call. you are clinging so desperately to some theoretical argument to avoid the obvious truth. you are a raging hypocrite. those politicians are working against the church but you give them a pass.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "those politicians are working against the church but you give them a pass."
How do you have the gall to say that when you were doing everything in your power to cover up for Biden?
If you haven't forgotten, I had to post his voting history to get you to stop lying.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead "some theoretical argument "
Oh, is that what you call an absolute, in-writing teaching of the Church? Some "theoretical argument?"
You're a pathetic troll and I'm sick of your garbage.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic the theoretical argument i referred to is your frankly pathetic attempt to wriggle your way into excusing pro-death penalty and pro-iraq massacre politicians. the church stands for the sanctity of life over virtually anything else and those 2 stances are profoundly anti-life. i can't make you face up to your own hypocrisy. you have to have the integrity to do that yourself.
oh, and i'm glad you're such a stickler against rudeness. or else i might take 'troll' as an insult.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead With how good you are at trolling, you should be honored to be called one.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead "excusing pro-death penalty and pro-iraq massacre politicians"
And please, please, don't try to red herring again here with your awful straw manning. We both know that I was talking solely about the absolute stance on the Church--the literal, written-down doctrine.
Never have I defended one politician. This whole thing started because I dared suggest that your precious Biden was a bad Catholic.
How ironic is that? I criticize a politician and you accuse me of defending one. xD
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic you are one of the most singularly dishonest people i have ever encountered in here. of course you were defending pro-death (after birth) politicians. and your own screeching hypocrisy. please don't embarrass yourself further. you have every right to be against abortion. but your hiding behind your religion and unwillingness to face obvious truths is beyond pathetic. you really need to do some deep thinking about yourself.
tishhead 10 months ago
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@tishhead It is more than obvious that you are not thinking clearly.
I'll ignore your previous post, and you can delete it if you want. Come back when you've calmed down.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic a "bad catholic"...you are all bad for misleading the world and subscribing to an institution that publicly rapes children.
zackmartin00 8 months ago
@zackmartin00 Warped hyperbole on top of media exaggeration and disinformation in an ill-founded attempt to prove yet again that you don't know how to argue.
You don't need my assistance to lose this argument.
OneCatholic 7 months ago
@OneCatholic Wow... Do you realize that you actually said nothing with that statement? Exaggeration? Did you iniw that EVERY catholic church in Belgium..that's right..the whole country..has had cases of molestation?
zackmartin00 7 months ago
@zackmartin00 I realize you heard nothing, but that is because your mental limitations.
OneCatholic 7 months ago
@OneCatholic You are such a trolling douche. Open up your mind, and accept there is no god. Nice way of avoiding that you were completely wrong. You aren't even intelligible, just arrogant. Catholicism is on its last leg.
zackmartin00 7 months ago
@zackmartin00 Numerous baseless attacks and an outburst of rage. Why so upset for absolutely no reason?
OneCatholic 7 months ago
@tishhead This is why I asked you to admit you were wrong. Because you once claimed each of the following:
- that Biden was a Catholic - when in fact he was excommunicated by his local bishop and barred from receiving communion.
- that a Catholic has the option at all to keep their faith out of their political decisions
- that the Church prohibits Capital Punishment absolutely
- that the Church opposes the Iraqi war absolutely
- that a non-ex cathredra papal statement represents the Church
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic YOU have argued that politicians can keep their faith out of political decisions whether it's divorce, iraq or the death penalty. if you're going to argue that the church doesn't absolutely oppose the iraq war, you have lurched completely off the rails. the requirements for just war are clear and iraq war doesn't come close to meeting them. you might as will give the iraqis a pass for taking kuwait or germany for taking austria and czechoslovakia.
tishhead 10 months ago
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@tishhead " YOU have argued that politicians can keep their faith out of political decisions"
Obvious straw man is obvious. And it's just as obvious that you have no pride whatsoever. I said, very clearly, that a Catholic does not have the option to compromise their faith in the political sphere. You have no excuse for misrepresenting something I said outright, to you, right here. You are a joke.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
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@tishhead "YOU have argued that politicians can keep their faith out of political decisions"
Obvious straw man is obvious. And it's just as obvious that you have no pride whatsoever. I said, very clearly, that a Catholic does NOT have the option to compromise their faith in the political sphere.
You have no excuse for misrepresenting something I said outright, to you, right here. You are a joke.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead For the record, since you never asked or cared, here is my opinion:
Modern society has no need for a death penalty and so it should never be exercised.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
And the same is for the Church's teaching on a "just war."
All talk, drowned in misinformation and rudeness. TIshhead, you belong on YouTube.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic Pope John Paul II said repeatedly and forcefully that the Iraq war failed the test of the just war. your ignorance and your hypocrisy are now running neck and neck. btw you complained twice about me making assumptions about you, yet you have obviously done the same. you don't even know my thoughts about abortion. i have not discussed them here. i'm merely calling YOU out on your hypocrisy.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "yet you have obviously done the same."
Referencing what you posted hardly compares to you assuming my feelings on what you post. Why don't you look up what "assumption" means. It's obvious at this point that you're only here to be obnoxious and to make light very serious matters. I should have known you were a fake Catholic yourself.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic what have i posted that states my views on abortion? this is about YOUR hypocrisy. and no i'm not a fake catholic. i'm not a catholic at all. i was raised as one but got off board when i reached the age of reason. apparently, however, i have a firmer grasp of what it means to follow the church's teachings than you do.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "what have i posted that states my views on abortion?"
You'll do anything you can to distract from the conversation. You have no pride.
" i have a firmer grasp of what it means to follow the church's teachings than you do."
And now you blaspheme the Church. At least you do so in ignorance, you poor fool.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic well, i guess incoherence is a step up from hypocrisy. you said you referenced my previous posts to conclude that i think life is a game (or some such nonsense). what posts? again, you don't even know what my stance on abortion is. and how is calling you out for your cafeteria catholicism blaspheming the church?
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "well, i guess incoherence is a step up from hypocrisy."
Two false claims you couldn't defend if your life depended on it. Tell me, do you have anything honest to say? I know you're all about misrepresentations and lies, but I'm sure you could muster a surprise for me.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic you have an example of me being dishonest? or are you just reduced to ad hominem attacks now?
tishhead 10 months ago
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@tishhead " or are you just reduced to ad hominem attacks now?"
If I've been "reduced" in any sense, it's only due to your numerous and plentiful examples of true ignorance. By the way, ad hominem, huh? Another word you apparently don't know the meaning of.
An ad hominem is a personal attack. Its definition does not depend on being true. Is there anything you know what you're talking about?
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead I don't know where people like you get off.
Did you see that I was Catholic and so plan out this laughable tirade of misinformation, mimicry and pretended stupidity, or have you really been serious this whole time?
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic apparently, you answered my question. you ARE reduced to ad hominem attacks. here's a helpful suggestion, just because i care: i enjoy insults as much as the next guy, but you might want to include actual arguments if you're going to debate.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "apparently, you answered my question."
So if I argue with your use of "reduced" with a play on words, somehow that equates to condoning your misconceived insult cries? You are more confused than I thought.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead "cafeteria catholicism"
Ah, a term you don't know the definition of from a religion you don't understand. Fitting.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic that would be picking and choosing which teachings of the church to follow and you would be a textbook example of same. the church is absolute unless it gets in the way of your politics. again, you're entitled to your opinions on all these subjects. it's the hiding behind the church's skirts on some issues while ignoring the church on others that makes you a hypocrite.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead " while ignoring the church on others" + "unless it gets in the way of your politics"
Do you see these two quotations? They are both false. You may not choose to ignore the Church when it comes to politics. And you can not quote one example where I argued against the Church. You are a troll.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic i actually already did. and you dismissed it because apparently you didn't think john paul was a legitimate pope or something. the church believes in the defense of life "until natural death." and in war only in the context of self-defense. you can play mental twister all you want but you can't come up with a way to defend catholic politicians who advocate cap punishment and the iraq war.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead " apparently you didn't think john paul was a legitimate pope"
Stop. *Face palm* and Google "Ex Cathedra." You really have no idea how obvious a mistake you are making.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead "you can't come up with a way to defend catholic politicians who advocate cap punishment and the iraq war."
I did before, and I'll do it again:
- Capital Punishment can be defended in some cases, and the Church condones it in these cases.
- The Iraqi war had been discerned as just by some Catholic politicians, and thus could be justified as a just war on the basis of threat prevention.
Forget trying to attack Catholicism. You are ignorant beyond words.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic you actually can't see your hypocrisy can you? "discerned as just by some politicians"? so they are free to substitute their judgement for the church's as expressed by the pope? pope JP was VERY clear that this did not meet the criteria of a just war. he did everything short of joining the anti-war marches. and capital punishment is only legitimate as the ONLY means to defend people. clearly in this day and age that is not true. your rationalizations are becoming absurd.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "so they are free to substitute their judgement for the church's"
Nope. They are responsible for determining whether or not a war is just. The teaching of the Church allows for a just war. They are not determining what kind of war is just; they are only determining if it is.
This is not that hard, really ...
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic this is just getting sad. a politician can determine on their own what a just war is? uh, no. there are specific requirements and iraq didn't come anywhere close to meeting them. and yes, i know what hypocrisy is and rarely in my life have i seen a better example.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead " i know what hypocrisy is and rarely in my life have i seen a better example."
Then how come you cannot substantiate even one example?
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead You are upset because you really felt like you were right, and since this is YouTube you expected an equally hot-headed and ignorant person to talk to, but now you have no idea how to react when I actually know what I'm talking about--and I refuse to be called your hot-finger favorite insult "hypocrite" without reason.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic i believe i see the ugly face of projection here. actually, i'm far more amused than upset. second, i know exactly how to react -- swat down your feeble rationalizations, which isn't difficult. i would be insulting your intelligence NOT to call you a hypocrite, given your stance. there literally is no other word for it.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "i'm far more amused than upset."
If you could only be honest with yourself and just admit you were wrong, you could be amused without having to be upset.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead Let us review:
I implied Biden was a bad Catholic. This set you off, because your misinformation led you to believe a Catholic could oppose the Church in politics and be A-okay. You also thought Biden never opposed the Church. You were wrong on both counts. Biden is a bad Catholic.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic ok if you're in the mood to review. i called you out as a hypocrite because you won't condemn equally (or at all) the catholic politicians who go against the church on other issues.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead " who go against the church"
Because they WERE NOT going against the Church? Do you read English?
- Capital Punishment can be defended in some cases, and the Church condones it in these cases.
- The Iraqi war had been discerned as just by some Catholic politicians, and thus could be justified as a just war on the basis of threat prevention.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead Here, how about you stop pretending you are a Catholic apologist? I have proved you wrong more than once, and I have yet to receive an apology.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic you have not come within hailing distance of proving anything other than your hypocrisy. you don't even have the beginnings of a case here. biden going against the church? unforgiveable. deathers and war-mongers? hey, they think they're doing the right thing, so we'll give em a pass.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "hypocrisy. " (x20+)
Please stop using words you don't understand ...
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead I'm not going to let you forget what started this ridiculous and foolish political dribble of yours:
I said Biden was supposed to be Catholic. That's it.
Is he? No. He has been excommunicated on more than one count. He openly goes against the Church.
Can you accept this? No. You're trying as hard as you can to make it seem like you have anything to argue, but you don't know the Church, you don't understand papal infallibility, and you don't know what "hypocrisy" means.. Just stop!
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead One more time, for good measure:
GOOGLE THIS: EX CATHEDRA
Your constant referrals to your John Paul II quote have to stop. The quote does not mean what you think. It is not an authorized statement on the Church's teaching. And it does not conflict with the teaching to begin with. Come on, man!
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic oh good, another game of intellectual twister. what YOU quoted me doesn't justify capital punishment. the only excuse is if there is no other means of protecting other lives. obviously, that isn't the case. the church is clearly, clearly against capital punishment.
tishhead 10 months ago
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@tishhead ". what YOU quoted me doesn't justify capital punishment. "
My quote, from the catechism, DOES show that the Church DOES condone capital punishment. That that is all it was supposed to do.
Was it supposed to argue that all cases of capital punishment match this standard? NO.
Was it supposed to show that, in some cases, the church DOES condone it? YES.
THIS IS NOT THAT HARD. You are mentally twisting yourself.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead " the church is clearly, clearly against capital punishment."
So when you can't prove it, you double your adverbs? Come on...
You know you are wrong. I know you are wrong. And when you deny it, I'll quote the catechism again.
What do you think you are doing??
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic oh please do, especially since it argues my case. then, maybe i can quote the endless parade of statements from the church and from individual cardinals laying out the case against the death penalty. it's not a borderline issue much as you would like for it to be.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead " maybe i can quote the endless parade of statements from the church and from individual cardinals laying out the case against the death penalty. "
To prove what? That cardinals don't like the death penalty? Guess what that proves? That cardinals don't like the death penalty.
You wanted to argue that THE CHURCH does NOT excuse the death penalty. It does in some cases. Do you know what that means? That you were WRONG? Do you know why? Because you argued that it never excused it.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
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@tishhead "Game over?"
Since you view morality, life and death as a game, it seemed appropriate.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
To in any way assist someone in procuring an abortion is grounds for excommunication. Biden is not a Catholic. You are blinded by the media and your refusal to think outside of your political sphere, choosing instead cling to ridiculous rationalizations. Game over.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic so should catholic bus drivers grill their female passengers as to their destination? should employers demand that their female employees sign no-abortion clauses? after all the salary could be going toward an abortion. maybe catholic workers for the telephone company should refuse to distribute the yellow pages with numbers of planned parenthood in them.
Game over? i didn't realize i was debating a 13-year-old. or is that an hommage to the egyptian demonstrators?
tishhead 10 months ago
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OneCatholic 10 months ago
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" who says biden holds anti-catholic views."
Biden does. Clearly, you're just here to make a fool out of yourself. Next time educate yourself before you support people you know nothing about.
- Has voted 100% in support of abortion
- Has voted to fund over-sea abortion clinics
- Has voted to allow minors to cross state borders to bypass parental consent laws
- Has voted in opposition to the Federal Marriage Amendment Act
- Voted against Partial-Birth abortion ban
The man is anti-Catholic.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
Did she.... Did she just call herself a Federalist then give a Minimalist point of view?
ZeDingoBlag 10 months ago
Sarah Palin is the dumbest fucking bitch I have ever seen in my entire life. Americans don't do themselves any favor giving her air time. Wow, I would love to cut open her skull to see if there is some grey matter in her brain. I hope she runs again for president for the sake of comedy.
TwistedMind6969 11 months ago
Palin can't name any supreme court cases, and in another interview she couldnt name one of the founding fathers. Did she even go to high school???
marschik2005 11 months ago
Good lord, does she have a brain? How do you run for VP and not have some laws and federal decisions that you agree and disagree with? At least Biden has an opinion, based on facts or beliefs and not just a willy nilly muttering about anything to avoid the issue.
emiloo1973 11 months ago
Also, Biden is supposed to be Catholic. What does he think he's doing?
OneCatholic 11 months ago
@OneCatholic what is he doing? representing the entire country, not just catholics. the church doesn't believe in right to remarry after divorce, but i don't see anyone pushing to make that the law. and while you're at it, why aren't you asking that question of catholic politicians who support capital punishment or supported the war in iraq?
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead Biden identifies himself as a Catholic. With the blasphemous heresies he gladly upholds, he is a hypocrite and a mockery of a Catholic.
And excuse me, but who are you to assume what I have done besides this single post on YouTube?
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic i took a chance. betting on hypocrisy from the right is usually a safe bet. if you can point me to your posts ripping catholic politicians who advocate the death penalty or supported the war in iraq, i'll be glad to retract. should biden also be pushing to make remarriage illegal?
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "betting on hypocrisy from the right is usually a safe bet."
So you're one of those drones who pigeonholes people into media-based social contexts without turning on the brain and thinking for yourself? Revealing.
I called you out on assumption and I was right to do so. It stops there.
And let's stop pretending remarriage is somehow an issue an ex-Catholic politician should be concerned with, as Catholic marriage is a sacrament and not an issue of the government.
OneCatholic 10 months ago 10
@OneCatholic actually, i'm one of those persons who pigeonholes the right wing based on my own observations. after a few hundred examples of absurd hypocrisy such as your own, i come to the conclusion that betting on hypocrisy from the right is a safe bet. not a sure bet but a safe one. and certainly a winning one in this case. marriage in general is certainly an issue of govt when rights flow from marriage. you still haven't addressed those who support capital punishment and the iraq war.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "after a few hundred examples of absurd hypocrisy such as your own"
Except that I'm not a hypocrite, and furthermore, there are no examples of me being one here. Did you forget that when you talk big, it has to be true to mean anything?
And second of all, you're a jerk. Who do you think you are insulting people on traits you assume they have, based on the ignorant stereotypes you hold? I'm a real person, since you forgot.
OneCatholic 10 months ago 3
@OneCatholic you are a raging hypocrite. abortion sets you off. fine. but don't hide behind your religion when you attack pro-choice catholics if you're not going to walk the walk on other issues like capital punishment and the war in iraq.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "pro-choice catholics"
No such creature exists.
OneCatholic 10 months ago 15
@tishhead But the insanity can't stop there, can it?
- "but don't hide behind your religion when you attack pro-choice catholics"
So my critiquing an alleged Catholic, who you claim can hold anti-Catholic views whilst remaining Catholic, equates "attacking" them, all the while "hiding behind my religion?"
Maybe you wanted a game of Hide and Seek, but I'm sick of hypocrites like YOU who want to bend the rules and corrupt the faith. I'm here to EXPOSE you, Biden, and all pretend Catholics.
OneCatholic 10 months ago 2
@OneCatholic who says biden holds anti-catholic views. he may well view abortion as being a sin, just as he may view remarriage as being illegitimate. but he was a senator and now vice president who represents ALL of his constituents, not just catholics. just as the 2 muslim members of congress aren't trying to incorporate their religious beliefs into law. you seem to be coming perilously close to advocating a religious test for holding office, which is explicitly forbidden in the constitution.
tishhead 10 months ago
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OneCatholic 10 months ago
Biden names one Supreme Court Decision, which he was aware of because it involved the Supreme Court disagreeing with him. Palin could not name any, and so she reiterated that there were probably some she disagreed with, reiterating that she stood for a state-level mediation for such laws.
And based on this, Palin is apparently dumb. As far as any of you know, Biden did not know even know of one more supreme court decision. I do think Palin should have said, "None that I can think of right now."
OneCatholic 11 months ago
@OneCatholic not being able to name, say, dred scott or plessy v ferguson was bad enough. but palin said she agreed there was a right to privacy inherent in the constitution and then said it should be left up to the states. that shows a spectacular lack of understanding of how this country works. constitutional rights cannot be left up to the states. alabama cannot decide to do away with freedom of speech or free assembly.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead You are a coward. You continue to sling insults at me because you see I'm Catholic and so assume a handful of traits about me that you know are dead wrong.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
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@OneCatholic and i have given you many opportunities to demonstrate that you are NOT a hypocrite. apparently you are incapable of that. you claim biden (and i assume kerry, kennedy et al) are lapsed catholics because they were pro-choice but offer no criticism of the sort for catholic pols who are pro-capital punishment or advocated the invasion of a country that posed no threat to us, sounds like you have replaced the teachings of the church and judgment of the pope with your own judgment.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "and i have given you many opportunities to demonstrate that you are NOT a hypocrite"
I'm sorry, but what kind of stupid thing to say is that? If I have done nothing hypocritical, then I am not a hypocrite. The end. What kind of backwards logic are you running?
"and i assume"
You sure got that right. You have no business behaving the way you are. Even for the Internet, you are low. The slam against the Pope was going too far.
OneCatholic 10 months ago 3
@OneCatholic ok, now you have moved past mere hypocrisy to being deranged. this is now 6 chances i believe for you to explain why you attack biden, kerry etc but not the supporters of the death penalty and iraq war. whiff. then you claim i'm slamming the pope. huh? i'm slamming YOU, dude for thinking you can substitute your judgment for that of the church and the pope.
tishhead 10 months ago
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@tishhead " for thinking you can substitute your judgment for that of the church and the pope."
Just like I'm slamming you for supporting 9/11 and illegal drug trafficking. I can do that because you have never once said you didn't support these things.
This is how a stupid person argues--by assuming that everything a person doesn't talk about, they must support. Coincidentally, this is how you argue.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@tishhead And finally: "i'm slamming YOU, dude for thinking you can substitute your judgment for that of the church and the pope."
To suggest that the pope in any way, shape or form opposes anything I have said is to blatantly misrepresent the Pope and is absolutely a slam against him. If you think otherwise, you have thought wrong.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic well, let's try it for a 7th time. did you have the same criticism for catholic politicians who support the death penalty and/or the invasion of iraq? the church's position on those issues is quite clear. by saying you were substituting your judgment for that of the pope, i was saying you were deciding which of the teachings of the church (abortion) were important and which (death penalty and iraq) weren't. btw if i wanted to slam this pope it would be over his record on abuse.
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead "did you have the same criticism for catholic politicians who support the death penalty and/or the invasion of iraq?"
Why are you posing to know Catholicism when you are obviously so ignorant?
2267 "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor."
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic "I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform."
Pope John Paul II 1999 in St. Louis mass
tishhead 10 months ago
@tishhead I quoted the Catechism. You can't post the views of one Pope, non ex-cathedra, and pretend it means anything. Troll.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
@OneCatholic ah, so you know more about being catholic than a pope. saying that in certain circles could get you in a lot of trouble. so you attack me for "slamming" the pope and then you do the same. your hypocrisy knows no bounds. of course, what you quoted actually refutes your own argument, but you don't appear capable of understanding that. clearly the death penalty isn't "the only possible way" of defending human lives.
tishhead 10 months ago
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@tishhead "what you quoted actually refutes your own argument"
Yeah, especially this part: "the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty"
"ah, so you know more about being catholic than a pope"
What a stupid thing to say. Google "Ex Cathedra" and stop making a fool out of yourself.
OneCatholic 10 months ago
Wow, I thought Biden had the stutter.
MegaThemeg 1 year ago
I mention Roe v. Wade in The History Song because the issue will never end.
superdavid002 1 year ago
Absolutely brilliant answer by Biden, regardless of your politcal beliefs you have to hand it to him. He blew Palin away on this question.
bwc3821 1 year ago
This is what's really happening with abortion, Dr. Kermit Gosnell an abortion doctor who catered to minorities, immigrants and poor women was charged with eight counts of murder in the deaths of a patient and seven babies who were born alive and then killed with scissors, prosecutors said last Wednesday.
Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, made millions of dollars over 30 years, performing as many illegal, late-term abortions as he could, prosecutors said.
elagentenumerouno 1 year ago
Atheistram- check your comment to zemestrical of Nov18/10. You did say when a baby is still in the mothers stomach. So you're a student; you know nothing about me or what I do or do not know about anatomy so....nah, nah... Sheeesh!
chatelaine19 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 I hadn't even viewed this video on Nov 18, 2010. Pulling shit out of your ass, I see.
atheistram 1 year ago
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chatelaine19 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 Now who's making mean, ignorant remarks. Calling me a foul-mouthed douchebag. :D
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram if you want to send me comments, how about something worthwhile, like hm... a good point you have to make or something interesting and that will make me think, 'Wow! I had not considered that! I'm going to ask about how you came to that conclusion! Or; no, I disagree and this is the reason why...... You know, like intelligent, civilised people do. Other than that, please don't interupt my day with the equivalent of brain junk food, ok? Thanks :)
chatelaine19 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 I'd appreciate it if you didn't interrupt my day with brain junk food, either, ok? Thanks.
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram yep, that was totally worthwhile! For someone who is supposedly working on their PhD you sure have a lot of time on your hands for nonsense. When I was in university I was too busy working and studying to spend time on moronic remarks to strangers. Do you think you are some great wit or what? Sorry, you're not.
chatelaine19 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 Do YOU think you're some great wit? You're not, FYI.
atheistram 1 year ago
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@chatelaine19 Do YOU think you're some great wit? You're not, FYI.
atheistram 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 Way to show how you personally attack others, as well.
atheistram 1 year ago
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atheistram 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 Way to be a hypocrite. :D
atheistram 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 Btw... you've made zero good points thus far. Just showing how ignorant YOU are.
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram wow! six pointless messages to me in a period of 15 minutes! I guess this is why I belong to MENSA and you are a loser spending his day insulting strangers on YouTube. Get a life.
chatelaine19 1 year ago
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atheistram 1 year ago
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@chatelaine19 You're the one who started off insulting me. Somehow I doubt you belong to MENSA since you can't even grasp the law of cause and effect. :D
atheistram 1 year ago
Well, she used Federalist right. She earned a cookie.
bigdaddyaen 1 year ago
katie made a fool out of Sarah. enough said
chellparis 1 year ago
The reporter asked Palin a question but I never heard an answer. Too much digression.
parkcardy 1 year ago
Damn, she can't even fake being clueless. I've been watching debates and interviews since the mid 60's. I can't recall any candidate for president or vice lacking of any knowledge.
tegeagent007 1 year ago
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I am pro-life, and pro gay rights. I asked a friend a hypothetical question that goes like this: Suppose that one day doctors will be able to scan for the gay gene (if there is such a thing) in a fetus, in the first trimester of pregnancy. Now suppose a pregnant woman learns that her child will one day be a homosexual. Upon learning this fact she decides immediately to terminate the pregnancy. Should her actions be greeted with hostility?
Keysteeze 1 year ago
I am pro-choice and always will be. Pro-lifers should not be called 'pro-life'. You are merely anti-choice. When a person says they are pro-choice, it means they are leaving the option of whether or not to have an abortion, up to the woman who is actually going to be affected by it.
cass07laughs 1 year ago
@cass07laughs
Well then maybe you should be called Anti-life. That sounds much worse than anti-choice doesn't it. Did you know Jane Roe who fought for the right for abortion is now pro-life?
aplohezy 1 year ago
If you're "Not ready" for a child, then don't make one!!! Don't have sex!!! That's what sex is for! To make babies!!! What do you think is going to happen? If you have sex and do not produce a baby then you have failed! Pleasure is a by-product of having sex. So stop being so freaking selfish and just wanting to please yourself at the expense of another person's life!!! If you have an abortion, then you should have your tubes tied, and never be allowed to have children in your care [exceptions]
bronco8585 1 year ago
@bronco8585 Like incest... this is the ONLY type of case where there can be a choice to kill that child. Rape and incest should be the only times it is even allowed to be considered!
bronco8585 1 year ago
@bronco8585 If you're against abortion, don't get one.
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram That's like saying "If you're against murder, then don't do it."
bronco8585 1 year ago
@bronco8585 That's what most people in the world do. They're against murder so they don't do it. A bunch of cells isn't human, thus killing that bunch of cells isn't murder.
atheistram 1 year ago
@bronco8585 Additionally, if you're against abortion you must be against masturbation as every time a male jerks off, he kills millions of potential humans.
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram That's like saying if a man ejaculates while 'trying to have a baby' with a woman, then he is also killing millions of potential humans, because only 1 makes it... Then a woman going through her menstrual cycle kills potential humans too?? No, your reasoning does not make sense... Sexual intercourse is for procreating. So if you don't want to procreate, then don't engage in the act of procreating, then after you have procreated, kill the poor child!! It's simple really...
bronco8585 1 year ago
@bronco8585 I take it your against Gay marriage. If sexual intercourse is for procreating should two infertile humans (man and woman) be allowed to marry or have sex??
And your example is a false dichotomy. Having sex is different than masturbation. When you have sex (without protection) there is always the possibility of having child. When a man masturbates there is zero chance.
One more thing, at the exact moment and shortly thereafter when the sperm meets the egg the result is not a child!!
atheistram 1 year ago
@bronco8585 WHAAAT?!? sex ONLY for procreation?
angelrod75 1 year ago
@bronco8585 Who decided that every potential possibility for new life was all that mattered? That is ridiculous! The Earth is over-populated already. The imperative to have sex has nothing to do with procreation, so to tell people to not have sex if they don't want a child is living in a fantasyland. This is just another excuse for the anti-sex crusaders. If you are so fearful of sex, don't do it, but don't tell others what to do. Pleasure is a gift.
chatelaine19 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 "Who decided that every potential possibility for new life was all that mattered? That is ridiculous! The Earth is over-populated already. The imperative to have sex has nothing to do with procreation, so to tell people to not have sex if they don't want a child is living in a fantasyland. This is just another excuse for the anti-sex crusaders. If you are so fearful of sex, don't do it, but don't tell others what to do. Pleasure is a gift."
I agree with this analysis. :)
atheistram 1 year ago
She doesn't know of any other Supreme Court judgements
finnquark 1 year ago
what the fuck is going on with these fucken commericals. The video jumps to a commerical and it stops....what the fuck youtube.!!
xppoker 1 year ago
Correction: "How can you say "woah too far" when I suggest some girl who gets pregnant via rape or incest should be met with the punishment given to people who commit first degree murder?" should have had a "and gets an abortion" in there somewhere.
Just so there isn't any confusion.
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
There are a lot of social issues out there that have lingered in the realm of uncertainty for so long that the morally correct path finally becomes obvious. Despite what some say, abortion and a woman's right to choose is the correct course of action. I'm tired of Republicans telling people not to take a 'human life' when they support capital punishment. I'm even more frustrated at religious fanatics who rely on a book written 2000 years ago that has more contextual holes than Swiss cheese
TheDirtyQuail 1 year ago
I think the womans choice bears more heavily on the issue than the man involved, if there is a man involved. But, if the man would be around if she had the baby, and would support both the mother and the child should she have it, then i think the man's opinion should also be taken into consideration.
ryankd84 1 year ago
I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born...
~ Ronald Reagan
risadanielle 1 year ago
Let me start this with saying that I'm a female.
And I'm pro-life.
I don't think it's a woman's right to kill a life. No matter how long they have been pregnant. Some women get abortions when they are 7-8 months pregnant. Literally killing the baby. What would those people who have been aborted over the years say? Abortion is really like putting a gun to the baby's head and throwing him/her in the garbage because "you're not ready", if you're not then give the kid for adoption...
zemetrical 1 year ago
@zemetrical Yeah, for sure. I hope they repeal Roe v. Wade, and then whenever a teenage girl raped by her father or brother tries to get an abortion, we sentence her to life in prison for first degree murder. And if she's 18 and in the right state, we should sentence her to death. Any woman who chooses not to have a baby should be incarcerated or executed, just as we do with everyone else who commits pre-meditated murder.
Right?
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Right? Ah. No. You're taking too far.
I used to be totally fine with abortion. It honestly did not bother me, and I was like yeah well if it's rape or the dad was someone horrible then they should have the right to get the abortion. But when I learned more and more about this topic, the whole idea seriously started making me sick. I think people are just being ignorant of the fact that they ARE killing a child. That didn't get to my head till recently. I hope you do
zemetrical 1 year ago
@zemetrical How exactly am I taking it too far? If it's a child, then any abortion for ANY reason is first degree murder. And that's either life in prison or the death penalty. What punishment do we mete out to women who kill their 1 year old children? How can you say "woah too far" when I suggest some girl who gets pregnant via rape or incest should be met with the punishment given to people who commit first degree murder? Is it a child or isn't it?
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Well, Big Mike, I would like to see the fetus implanted in you and then you could be forced to deliver rectally. Or at the very least you could be made financially responsible in cases of rape or incest. Since you think you have a right to make the decision for the victim, then you should be responsible.
deesantucci 1 year ago
@deesantucci You realize that I'm using satire to point out how stupid it is to try and deny women control over their own bodies based on the notion that a zygote or blastocyst is as much a person as the women they develop within, right? That I don't actually believe any of the things I wrote are good ideas, but that they are nonetheless logical extensions of the "life begins at conception" stuff the anti-choice crowd harps on about?
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard your own research and study what this actually means. And don't get angry at people who are not selfish and are just thinking about themselves. The child's life is not your own to take away.
zemetrical 1 year ago
@zemetrical Sure it is. When the baby's still in the mother's stomach and it's before the second trimester, every woman should have the right (if they so choose) to abort the fetus.
If you're against abortion, don't have one.
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram- please learn some basic anatomy and biology! Babies/ fetuses are not carried in a mother's stomach! A stomach is part of the digestive system; babies are carried in an organ called a 'uterus', which is part of the reproductive system in all mammals. Good Grief! Do you know anything about female anatomy? Hopefully you know where the clitoris is and what it is for!!
chatelaine19 1 year ago
@chatelaine19 I never said anything about the baby being in the mother's stomach. Nice try, trying to discredit my words, though. :)
I am a Ph.D. Student in Neuroscience... so I'd say I know more about anatomy and biology than you do. :D
atheistram 1 year ago
@zemetrical well what about situations where it would be the best decision? Such as an illness of the woman where if she has the baby she would die herself, or if the child has an illness where it would suffer more to live than to be aborted within the first 5 months. I don't think on abortion there is a complete yes answer or no answer, to many situations where it would needed or wanted.
ryankd84 1 year ago
@ryankd84 Actually I've talked about this with people,and that is the only time I think it's sort of ok for the abortion. Knowing both the mother and baby will die, then at least saving one life is a big deal.
zemetrical 1 year ago
@zemetrical The only people who can get a legal abortion when the fetus is 7-8 months are women who's lives would be in grave danger if they had the baby. Would you rather kill the mother or the fetus? Your choice.
atheistram 1 year ago
@atheistram I wouldn't want either to die. But do you even know what a fetus looks like , especially around 7-8 months. A baby. Please google it.
zemetrical 1 year ago