@MrTwat4444 No. I mean there is no limit how narrow the lines can be, how close to each other they can be. They can always be narrower and closer. Infinity has no end.
In that example you kind of imagine, that at certain point you have reached a level, when the lines can't be any thinner or otherwise you stop to observe the lines. But infinity never reaches the end. It never stops to be observed. Never.
Circles are finite, infinity is not.
You can divide large and small objects, huge and tiny, in infinite parts and they are all divided in equal number of pieces; infinite.
If you think a thought and each thought was enough to understand the thought before it, there will always be room for another thought were it be your thought or someone or not. :]
@bankslord Infinity is more than "you can always add one". I think you missed quite a bit here. And mathematicians are not in fact trying to link it to the physicals. No offense. These mathematician made great contributions and they should be remembered.
I don't get why they bother trying to understand infinity. I'm not particulary educated in maths as such, but i totally understand Infinity, numbers don't stop, you can always add one. The trouble is they try to liken it to something physical, which numbers aren't. I read a quote in a book- "Infinity doesn't exist because we will never reach it but infinity does exist because we will never reach it".
infinity can't be contained what they are talking about are fractions of that infinity or the full potential of one system in my opinion you can't have more than one infinity as a concept,an idea,and t think it should not even be counted,counting is a wrong approach of this problem and that generates the wrong terms of the equation
YOU ALL NEED JESUS.... haha naaa i'm fucking around but this is crazy. If there was a god it would be nice if he gave everyone an instructional video on how the universe was created. I personally believe we're going to find that consciousness existed before the big bang and I heard from Roger penrose that they now know the universe was highly structured when it came into existence. But who knows I guess were all fishing in the dark right now.
Imagine the geniuses throughout time not held back by the time they were born in and where we would be right now...people are such a sad, scared, superstitious lot
this is bullshit how could u count a infinite ,infinite plus infinite = a bigger infinite ,there for infinite in this guys vision is just another number but the truth is the infinite is not a number .infinite is the thing that keeps the numbers together its ilogical and dumb infinite has no boundaries in colclusion the infinite aint a number its something that u cannot reach .Fukkin moron
@Silenz1oStampa ok genius...you clearly just acheived more ground in this subject than anyone ever has except in a few seconds......................................
@undergroundjackal because in your mind theres no way in hell you could be wrong? if people didnt do things first thought not to be possible we would still be living in caves. forget the bet i will make the video for nothing the purpose of infinity theory is very simple
@lyricallyVEXT the purpose for expanding infinity with the perfect formula and a specific set of numbers that would solve our existence. good luck with that genius.
@undergroundjackal purpose for the infinity theory,not the answer to the infinity theory. they didnt know the speed of light but they saw scientific purpose to find out. through lots of research they are very close to something they first thought impossible to know. the purpose of the theory is that when the knowledge in the field is furthered it will have great affects on our science and mathematics. and tbh this is probably something the aincient egyptians figured out years ago
@lyricallyVEXT ancient egyptians knew about the golden ratio and did not proceed any further, they focused on the human mind itself. they know every mind resembles a universe. there is no purpose for going beyond the infinite. no need to define what is indefinite. its just retarded. knowing pi alone is good enough and that the universe is composed of MICROCOSM AND MACROCOSM. this man even though a genius was also delusional and believed that god was talking to him until he became retarded.
he didnt prove anything by saying that by dividing infinite lines with more infinite lines, you somehow have more smaller sections than larger sections.. there is no end to either or any of the sizes of lines.. they are the same, infinite... never ending, and uncountable
if time began with the begining of our universe, then what could possibly be infinite in time? infinities cant have a begining or an end.. in a universe that supposedly sprang from nothing, there is no infinity.. as i see it, unless you believe in god, there is nothing that existed before the "big bang".. or has the scientific communty decided that there was something before the begining of the universe?
@longfootbuddy Thats not right at all. Many physicists now believe the big bang was caused by two other universes colliding. Just like we thought it was just our earth, Then just our solar system then Just our Galaxy. We will soon find that it isn't just one Universe. Also we know there are so many more dimensions now.
@JG129 i know.. scientists tend to make up whatever they like, and wait for someone to prove them wrong.. its the reverse and opposite of what scientists should do
even if you have a solution for expanding infinity what would be the point of that??? can anybody tell me? im not surprised to know he delved into retardation
@undergroundjackal You are soooo miserable!!!! Discovering the meaning of existence is the most brilliant thing a human being can do, It's about everything. The levels of these genious thoughts are so high that, I believe, people will be deep as them in understanding, after 4, 5 or 6 hundred years, maybe more, probably much more. If you were more intelligent you would feel the brilliance of it, you'd be able to admire when a human understands what all of us don't use to see, Im sure!
@FrancisHut infinity is not the meaning of human existence. its not factual evidence. infinity is not the meaning of life. infinity cannot be determined by numbers because it is infinite. infinity is just is. accept it. hope you learned something today.
What's worse is if you take all of those markings, and add dashes of space in them, now you get to a representational infinity, where there are even more classes of images than continous lines.. you get a lot of infinities, so interesting to the mind.
the layering of infinities and varying spacing of them is the very definition of infinity itself. The pardoxical relationship of an infinity exisiting aside or within another infinity makes up one ultimate infinity... or just simply infinity.
As a simple example take a hotel with infinite many room in where every room is occupied. Can you add one more guest? Yes you can. Ask guest in room 1 to move to room 2, guest in room 2 to move to room 3 etc. With this method you can make space for an infinite number of new guest even thou all rooms are occupied. It is pretty counter intuitive how something can be complete but not complete at the same time, but this is only the start of the weirdness.
@DrawingApples Okay, I agree that the shadow disappearing does not mean suddenly there are two snakes. I agree, but I don't think that analogy applies to infinity. Here is a better one: take the integer one and the integer two. There are an infinity number of real numbers between one and two. Right? Infinity is right there, between one and two. Right? Now how about between one and three? If there is an infinity between one and two, then there has to be 2 X infinity between one and three.
STOPPING A TORNADO-- YOU TUBE VIDEO. Preventing a tornado from touching the ground. I made this video because i survived a tornado in 1998. In Dec. 2006 i came up with a theroy on how to PREVENT a tornado from touching the ground.
The idea of infinity (denoted L1) is OK with me, I'm comfortable with that. But the idea that there is another infinity L2>L1, and another L3>L2>L1 and in fine, that there are lim(n->inf.) Ln>...>L1 infinities is MIND boggling!!! I suppose that what I've written proves that infinity is infinite. THAT IS AMAZING! Georg Cantor was certainly an unheralded genius.
I'm studying math at university and the thing I don't like is, that some people give a math some kind of super-power, that the whole world is based on math and it can describe the real nature of everything.
Math is about models, that were made up by people. There would be no math without human beings. There are no numbers, functions, sets, lines or circles in the nature. Acutally, there is no infinity in the nature, everything is finite .. but yes, I do like these videos :)
Imagine a set A = {1, 2, 3, 4}. It has 16 subsets. Now imagine a set N = natural numbers. It is infinite. Now imagine a set of subsets of N, P(N). It is much more infinite. Now imagine P(P(N)) ... So, there is no "the biggest set" or "the biggest infinity".
But Cantor's "naive" set theory has contradictions, like Russel's paradox, that's why Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory was invented.
@ScionLo I believe he saw it. He saw that infinity stretches both ways. To the infinitly larger to the infinity smaller and that he (we) are somewhere in between. That we really are, gulp, insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Now having said that, please excuse me while go jump out a window. Ha!
@ScionLo Yeah I agree. Especially when it comes to looking at my own dick. Heh, heh. Sorry couldn't let that one pass by. It's all relative, eh Spock?
pbansal's comments about the density of infinity is, from a mathematical view, wrong. Mathematician's view the infinities "2, 4, 6, ..." and "1, 2, 3, ..." as identical in size, because they can be put in 1-to-1 correspondence with each other. Similarly, sithis' suggestions about different infinities has nothing to do with the mathematical view. The smallest infinity is "1,2,3 ...". Cantor proved this is the same size as the set of all fractions, but is SMALLER than the infinity of real numbers.
@sithis1989 I think u spelt Ur infinity wrongly. And they're not trying to say that it's a big deal. Just opening up more insights to research and development:)
I honestly dont understand why this is supposed to be a big deal. Of course their are different kinds of invinities. The invinity of numbers between 1 and 2 is just the invinity of steps we can take between 1 and 2 but none of this numbers on its own has a larger value than 1, therefore this invinity is created by definition itself.
The second invinity is an invinity of value if u like and of course it contains other invinities cause we made them up.
This kind of mathematic is intriguing, but remember, as an art form, we need to understand that art is subjective, not concrete. There may be rules of nature, but rules bend & break.
IMO, "infinity" is mind-made (which is without a doubt impressive to a certain degree). Suicidally speaking, I believe scientists/mathemeticians lose their sanity because of what they create in their minds. The same can be said by many creators and artists. Altogether, this is really really compelling stuff.
please note most these geniuses got their inspiration and answers from nature, more interstingly their time spent outdoors interacting with the woods.....better stop cutting the trees till we figure this one out.
How can people try to define Infinity without being illiterate?? No offense to these great minds, but if you define the undefinable - you have created, accepted AND accepted the failure of your own paradox. Right? To me it seems like Potential is a good word to describe All/God/TheProcess. I mean, you can know about the nature of it all, and you can even know "some facts" so called, eventhough they are based in perception but w/e. Anyway, you can know Some, but NEVER All about it. What do I know
So, this Cantor is whom who started it all. I failed Engineering Mathematics 3 in my college because of this infinity topic. Repeated the subject but got C+. Anyway, great mathematician.
How was it that they were able to see the many lines of numbers of infinities? Where can I find that information? Forgive my ignorance, obviously my mind isn't as developed as yours. :) Not intended to be sarcastic.
something like infinity multiplied infinity times, be it negative, positive, fractions, etc, will always end at the most infinite for the calculation, yet, 1 multiplied infinite times by 1 is always 1, so it wouldnt be infinite no matter how you try to calculate it according to this formula. the same happen to any other kind of formula you try to use or create and it is what drive people insane about it.
problem with it: he can try to get the infinite of positive numbers, negative numbers, fractions, etc, trying to set a formula that work for all of them, maybe even finding something over positive numbers, under negative numbers, etc, but for that he must use something to control his math and this thing that control the math bound his math to something infinite less this thing or to something not really infinite, then he try something else, and something else. thats what I got from his math life
@bindasUA Agreed, infinity + infinity seems an irrational concept to me, although it doesn't stop me telling my twins that I love them infinity times infinity. That's when infinity becomes useful. Expressing your love.
@joaquinveyron When she was young she had probably no opportunity to learn english, so she had no chance to learn the language as good as young people today. How many languages besides your motherlanguage do you speak without an accent?! you should really think about the things you post!
forgive me but i think this is mind-fucking. math is limited. you will find things by design. its like asking "if a tree falls in the forest..." if you define what sound is, it will be easy to answer if it makes one. semantics.
"it may not have anything to do with [...]building bridges [...] but who cares?" these are the people that make art out of science.
But Mathematics is NOT Science! It is useful to Science. Most Mathematicians hardly know much Science. They confuse the Mathematics of the Science with Science itself, they post BS "Math created Internet/this or that" Bull! Engineers and Physicist had to understand the Real Science of materials and interaction and method of Harnessing them.
thats not logical if the number of lines were truly infinte it would fit the outer circle aswell and infinite other outer circles . Its is impossible to show any infinity with tools which are limited. So problem solved so why suicide ok maybe he just was crazy [yeah hering gods voice ... ] infinity cant be described by any means but u can imagine the outskirts of infinity>
infinity was always is always and awill always be for all time infintiy willb e all aroaund you
i wish this guy had been my maths teacher at school instead of a fat ugly canadian man with toilet breathe and a penchant for yelling. maybe then i would have passed!
to attempt a quantatative definition of infinity requires logical thought. however, isn't the ultimate question= did consciousness arise out of inorganic matter or is the source of the universe a single immortal, omnipresent, and infinite consciousness?
Well, there are infinite number in an infinity, and there are infinite infinities, and there are infinite infinities of infinities, but each infinity cannot be contained by the larger since they are all never-ending.
How does the Universe excist in a human's mathmatical equation,we don't know the laws of our Universe,just like we invented time so we could label things in a certain way.Why does anything excist by the laws of human nature?There maybe a far superior race of beings with totally different ways of looking at things than us.Does that make them right & us wrong,who knows?
Infinity is not a number but a concept. If it were possible to divide by zero you would form a number so large it could not fit into the known universe. This is why the idea of infinity + 1 is false as it has no numerical standing. When applied to physical equations infinite limits represent all the values the variables can take.
Hang on, if one infinity is bigger than the other, then both must have a finite number assigned to them, so that we are able to recognise that one is bigger then the other mathematically, therefor neither are infinite.
You can go infinitely smaller also ... man is unable to develop tools to measure either, so we are stuck within a range of mathematical understanding, which is how God made us. God appeared to us in the form of a man, Jesus, so we could understand the really important things that we need to know. Turn away from sin, and put your faith in Jesus today!
think if cantor used arcs to make arcs he would have the right shape. think of music recordings you hear many instruments from one wave form, his idea of higher infinities is wrong I think. its just we can only witness some levels. the failing is in the human condition to divide. take the waveform for instance we hear many sounds yet their is only one. infinity equals 1.
This shit was common to me since I was a kid. I knew "science" and "spirituality" were ONE. Hence the GREATEST scientific minds, ALWAYS having spiritual beliefs. Newton, Einstein, Tesla, Cantor, Maxwell ETC. But you mainstream scientists always try to limit ideas with skepticism and the fear of the infinite. It is RelIGION that limits the minds of people, but that does not mean infinite consciousness does not exist.
@cloud0123 Modern education has attempted to divorce science from spirituality because it is part of a terrible conspiracy to seperate us from the One the only one who can bless us with genius. Nearly every great scientist of history merely saw science as the study of Gods creation. They knew that science goes hand in hand with theology.
infinity is a mathematical anamoly which exists because wow stop the press... mathematics is not perfect. use a different language and infinity disappears. maths is just one of many languages used to explain what we see and it allows us to calculate many important things but it is not the ultimate knowledge of the universe. in physics they use the fact that they have ended up with infinity for an answer as meaning something is wrong.
Some day it will be understood that the paradox is true, on both ends. We are finite, and we are infinite. It is this opposing paradox that actually fundamentally allows existence to come into being.
What I see time and time again in these documentaries is how some "scientists" often seem to be more interested in convenient explanations than finding the truth...and the ones who do not face a barrage of ego-based negativity and ridicule.
all this talk about infinity, which I partly do not understand, leads me to these question: why is everything decoded? why does human mind have barriers to understand infinity?
"Some infinities are bigger than others". Well then clearly they aren't infinite!!
Sure you can imagine that infinity exists, and if it does by definition we can never "see it" because it never ends... The only infinity that makes any sense is time.
@Mumsilius Why are you assuming that two infinities cannot be compared ? You will see in the later parts the significance of these different levels of infinity when Turing comes: There are an infinite(smller infinity) number of problems a computer can solve but the total number of problems is also infinite(bigger infinity). So, no matter what we do some problems will remain unsolvable. Similarly, you cannot prove everything in Mathematics.
@pbansal1989 Because I believe there is no such thing as infinity. It's an illusion we have because we cannot grasp or comprehend extraordinarily large numbers/quantities/sizes and so forth... Just because we can't put our heads around it doesn't mean it's infinite. Our minds simply aren't built to see the world at this "macro" level since it has no use in the environment we live in. It's like we are looking up at this huge thingy and we can't see the end of it because it's so large...
@tvswnet hehe it just helped make my point. Obviously Galileo wasn't a moron, at least not a bigger moron than me. But to me this "problem" of infinity seems moronic. I'm not sure however, of anything...
But if we consider all the numbers between 0 and 1 which include rational numbers like 0.1, 0.01, .001, .02, 1/2, 1/3 , 1/4, and even bizarre irrational numbers like 1/pi, 1/root(2) etc then we have another infinity
They are saying that the 2nd infinity is bigger than the first one. The proof of this fact is very cool but this margin is too small to contain it.
@pbansal1989 If you don't try to contain it, you never will. Cantor challenged established beliefs and he gained ground. The human mind is a powerful thing. It cans solve anything in good time. The 2nd infinity will eventually be understood. :)
@dinamo1233 I agree that human mind is extremely powerful. Though in the later parts of the video(when Godel comes), it has been explained that there are some problems that we can never solve.
We have a very good understanding of the 2nd infinity. It's known that there is an infinity beyond the 2nd infinity, in fact there is an infinite hierarchy of infinities. :)
@pbansal1989 ahaha fermat reference A simple proof: Imagine the infinite list of decimals .43652.. .10026.. .39678.. .15530.. .79193.. . . Now isolate the diagonal of this infinite list, and represent it as a decimal. Here it would be: .4xxxx.. .x0xxx.. .xx6xx.. .xxx3x.. .xxxx3.. . . so it's .40633... What happens if we add 1 to each digits? We get .51744... (9 would go to 0). So this number we just made isn't in the list. But the list is infinite. I'd explain more, but I'm out of room.
@pbansal1989 can any1 help me understand infinity ? like basic stuff what r they talking about im really interested in this kind of stuff but don't know what is it .. n yea i kno this sounds stupid sorry for that
@5478926 Think of any number. Now add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Or, take any number and subtract 1 from it. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Infinity means "no end," because you can always add or subtract 1.
I think maybe suicide was the only way he could understand infinity; perhaps he believed that in death, he could finally comprehend what he was looking for.
This is dumb. I am 50% that this is all a joke. I likes that quantum physics movie way better than this. I think it called something down the rabbit hole.
Hence the reason God cannot give man too much knowledge at one time. It would be too great and drive us mad, as it did with these scientists. We need to understand slowly, otherwise, we will stand in awe.
lol..love this..make you think.. But, what is the point with calling them -different infinities after one infinity..i mean, the infinite is just -infinite right?..lol, get me? if there would be different infinities after one infinity, that would mean that one infinite is finite.. So, there is just -infinity. nothing more to it.
[33] "O assembly of jinn and men! If you have power to pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass (them)! But you will never be able to pass them, except with authority (from Allâh)!"
I don't see what's mind blowing about it... whether it is a larger integer or irrational number, it's the same concept... :/ so what's so great about them being on a higher level of hierarchy? It's not practical or significant at that moment..
fuck i really love mathematics
كم أعشق الرياضيات !
0554844777 3 months ago
@MrTwat4444 No. I mean there is no limit how narrow the lines can be, how close to each other they can be. They can always be narrower and closer. Infinity has no end.
SmilingApollo 3 months ago
anyone know any other good documentarys like this, and just stuff in general?
killiandarcy42023 3 months ago
That example of two circles is incorrect.
In that example you kind of imagine, that at certain point you have reached a level, when the lines can't be any thinner or otherwise you stop to observe the lines. But infinity never reaches the end. It never stops to be observed. Never.
Circles are finite, infinity is not.
You can divide large and small objects, huge and tiny, in infinite parts and they are all divided in equal number of pieces; infinite.
SmilingApollo 3 months ago
Yeah, but does it help to make the trains run on time?
portantwas 3 months ago
I think i`ve just gone mad.
paparry 3 months ago
Argibon, Looks like you have MegaGangstaparadise all fired up and pissed off lmao, Good job buddy. Respect!
PoliceOfficerr 4 months ago
If you think a thought and each thought was enough to understand the thought before it, there will always be room for another thought were it be your thought or someone or not. :]
Argibon 4 months ago
@Argibon *Commits suicide*
lol see being stupid saves your life god 1 , trying 2 disprove god till you become an insane atheist 0
MegaGangstaparadise 4 months ago
My brain hurts just thinking about infinity. Thank God I don't want to be a mathematician.
mariahrose210 4 months ago
@bankslord Infinity is more than "you can always add one". I think you missed quite a bit here. And mathematicians are not in fact trying to link it to the physicals. No offense. These mathematician made great contributions and they should be remembered.
qiongsi 4 months ago
Moral of the story- leave it like Galileo or end up mad
sharini65 4 months ago
god=the powerpuff girs...
shantanuking888 4 months ago
I don't get why they bother trying to understand infinity. I'm not particulary educated in maths as such, but i totally understand Infinity, numbers don't stop, you can always add one. The trouble is they try to liken it to something physical, which numbers aren't. I read a quote in a book- "Infinity doesn't exist because we will never reach it but infinity does exist because we will never reach it".
bankslord 4 months ago
infinity can't be contained what they are talking about are fractions of that infinity or the full potential of one system in my opinion you can't have more than one infinity as a concept,an idea,and t think it should not even be counted,counting is a wrong approach of this problem and that generates the wrong terms of the equation
devilu18 4 months ago
YOU ALL NEED JESUS.... haha naaa i'm fucking around but this is crazy. If there was a god it would be nice if he gave everyone an instructional video on how the universe was created. I personally believe we're going to find that consciousness existed before the big bang and I heard from Roger penrose that they now know the universe was highly structured when it came into existence. But who knows I guess were all fishing in the dark right now.
JG129 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
argueing on thevinternet?.....YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
llamascanplaynitendo 4 months ago
Imagine the geniuses throughout time not held back by the time they were born in and where we would be right now...people are such a sad, scared, superstitious lot
Demonbane41276 5 months ago
this is bullshit how could u count a infinite ,infinite plus infinite = a bigger infinite ,there for infinite in this guys vision is just another number but the truth is the infinite is not a number .infinite is the thing that keeps the numbers together its ilogical and dumb infinite has no boundaries in colclusion the infinite aint a number its something that u cannot reach .Fukkin moron
Silenz1oStampa 5 months ago
@Silenz1oStampa ok genius...you clearly just acheived more ground in this subject than anyone ever has except in a few seconds......................................
lyricallyVEXT 5 months ago
@lyricallyVEXT its called wisdom.
undergroundjackal 5 months ago
@undergroundjackal what you think is wisdom may be ignorance and stupidity...
lyricallyVEXT 4 months ago
@lyricallyVEXT ok, prove me wrong then. give the theory purpose. i BET YOU CANT. because you are being pretentious :P
undergroundjackal 4 months ago
@undergroundjackal what would you like to bet :P i can make a video if you like
lyricallyVEXT 4 months ago
@lyricallyVEXT i dont see that happening.
undergroundjackal 4 months ago
@undergroundjackal because in your mind theres no way in hell you could be wrong? if people didnt do things first thought not to be possible we would still be living in caves. forget the bet i will make the video for nothing the purpose of infinity theory is very simple
lyricallyVEXT 4 months ago
@lyricallyVEXT the purpose for expanding infinity with the perfect formula and a specific set of numbers that would solve our existence. good luck with that genius.
undergroundjackal 4 months ago
@undergroundjackal purpose for the infinity theory,not the answer to the infinity theory. they didnt know the speed of light but they saw scientific purpose to find out. through lots of research they are very close to something they first thought impossible to know. the purpose of the theory is that when the knowledge in the field is furthered it will have great affects on our science and mathematics. and tbh this is probably something the aincient egyptians figured out years ago
lyricallyVEXT 4 months ago
@lyricallyVEXT ancient egyptians knew about the golden ratio and did not proceed any further, they focused on the human mind itself. they know every mind resembles a universe. there is no purpose for going beyond the infinite. no need to define what is indefinite. its just retarded. knowing pi alone is good enough and that the universe is composed of MICROCOSM AND MACROCOSM. this man even though a genius was also delusional and believed that god was talking to him until he became retarded.
undergroundjackal 4 months ago
Comment removed
mappingtheshit 5 months ago
he didnt prove anything by saying that by dividing infinite lines with more infinite lines, you somehow have more smaller sections than larger sections.. there is no end to either or any of the sizes of lines.. they are the same, infinite... never ending, and uncountable
longfootbuddy 5 months ago in playlist More videos from DorianDawn
if time began with the begining of our universe, then what could possibly be infinite in time? infinities cant have a begining or an end.. in a universe that supposedly sprang from nothing, there is no infinity.. as i see it, unless you believe in god, there is nothing that existed before the "big bang".. or has the scientific communty decided that there was something before the begining of the universe?
longfootbuddy 5 months ago
@longfootbuddy Thats not right at all. Many physicists now believe the big bang was caused by two other universes colliding. Just like we thought it was just our earth, Then just our solar system then Just our Galaxy. We will soon find that it isn't just one Universe. Also we know there are so many more dimensions now.
JG129 4 months ago
@JG129 i know.. scientists tend to make up whatever they like, and wait for someone to prove them wrong.. its the reverse and opposite of what scientists should do
longfootbuddy 4 months ago
We need chuck norris to sort this stuff out.
OwynBandSoLong 5 months ago
@OwynBandSoLong chuck norris cant think, he just beats up sasquatch and stuff
longfootbuddy 5 months ago
even if you have a solution for expanding infinity what would be the point of that??? can anybody tell me? im not surprised to know he delved into retardation
undergroundjackal 5 months ago
@undergroundjackal You are soooo miserable!!!! Discovering the meaning of existence is the most brilliant thing a human being can do, It's about everything. The levels of these genious thoughts are so high that, I believe, people will be deep as them in understanding, after 4, 5 or 6 hundred years, maybe more, probably much more. If you were more intelligent you would feel the brilliance of it, you'd be able to admire when a human understands what all of us don't use to see, Im sure!
FrancisHut 5 months ago
@FrancisHut infinity is not the meaning of human existence. its not factual evidence. infinity is not the meaning of life. infinity cannot be determined by numbers because it is infinite. infinity is just is. accept it. hope you learned something today.
undergroundjackal 5 months ago
What's worse is if you take all of those markings, and add dashes of space in them, now you get to a representational infinity, where there are even more classes of images than continous lines.. you get a lot of infinities, so interesting to the mind.
SymbolicSoliloquy 5 months ago
All they've done is replaced "a really big number" with "infinity".
I can talk about "infinity" all day too if I redefine it and misrepresent it.
D33veeoss 5 months ago
If I can add 1+1 then I can also add infinity plus infinity.
Hmmmm.
That's like saying if I can find the sum total of 2 oranges in a pail, then I can also find the sum total of sweet and sweet.
One is a number while the other describes numbers, but has no quantity.
D33veeoss 5 months ago
the layering of infinities and varying spacing of them is the very definition of infinity itself. The pardoxical relationship of an infinity exisiting aside or within another infinity makes up one ultimate infinity... or just simply infinity.
chalmers3000 5 months ago
The Quran mentioned SEVEN infinities......
dawood17 5 months ago
@dawood17 what does the word infinity means?. Does it mean something we can explain?
female115 5 months ago
@DrawingApples
Does understand what it is?
As a simple example take a hotel with infinite many room in where every room is occupied. Can you add one more guest? Yes you can. Ask guest in room 1 to move to room 2, guest in room 2 to move to room 3 etc. With this method you can make space for an infinite number of new guest even thou all rooms are occupied. It is pretty counter intuitive how something can be complete but not complete at the same time, but this is only the start of the weirdness.
jomen112 5 months ago
@DrawingApples Okay, I agree that the shadow disappearing does not mean suddenly there are two snakes. I agree, but I don't think that analogy applies to infinity. Here is a better one: take the integer one and the integer two. There are an infinity number of real numbers between one and two. Right? Infinity is right there, between one and two. Right? Now how about between one and three? If there is an infinity between one and two, then there has to be 2 X infinity between one and three.
Argonaut22j 5 months ago
Math is a man made thing and doesn't exist in nature. So trying to explain true nature with math is ridiculous.
RedTailedTuna 5 months ago in playlist Dangerous Knowledge - BBC
Infinity is nothing more then a static there is no end but, there is also no begining and no time to it other then the time was observe.
RedTailedTuna 5 months ago in playlist Dangerous Knowledge - BBC
Galileo's Paradox is mind boggling.
Arminsaf2 5 months ago
I see from where and what kind of people came with the Chuck Norris factoid came from :p
FreeeeS 6 months ago
the questions is like the leaves of a tree... is never end, more you take and more appear...
nightbluehorse 6 months ago
When you're an oddball trying to open up a can of worms, it's hard not for people to hate you.
meltingEyeballs 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
STOPPING A TORNADO-- YOU TUBE VIDEO. Preventing a tornado from touching the ground. I made this video because i survived a tornado in 1998. In Dec. 2006 i came up with a theroy on how to PREVENT a tornado from touching the ground.
Super314159265358 6 months ago
The idea of infinity (denoted L1) is OK with me, I'm comfortable with that. But the idea that there is another infinity L2>L1, and another L3>L2>L1 and in fine, that there are lim(n->inf.) Ln>...>L1 infinities is MIND boggling!!! I suppose that what I've written proves that infinity is infinite. THAT IS AMAZING! Georg Cantor was certainly an unheralded genius.
Pinepelt 6 months ago in playlist The Mathematicians
The resolution of cosmos is infinite... or it seems to be.
4-dimensionality.
viinikellari 6 months ago
This would be more interesting if it wasn't so dumbed down. When you simplify too much, matters stop making any sense.
eizhowa 6 months ago
I'm studying math at university and the thing I don't like is, that some people give a math some kind of super-power, that the whole world is based on math and it can describe the real nature of everything.
Math is about models, that were made up by people. There would be no math without human beings. There are no numbers, functions, sets, lines or circles in the nature. Acutally, there is no infinity in the nature, everything is finite .. but yes, I do like these videos :)
theNguitar 6 months ago
Imagine a set A = {1, 2, 3, 4}. It has 16 subsets. Now imagine a set N = natural numbers. It is infinite. Now imagine a set of subsets of N, P(N). It is much more infinite. Now imagine P(P(N)) ... So, there is no "the biggest set" or "the biggest infinity".
But Cantor's "naive" set theory has contradictions, like Russel's paradox, that's why Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory was invented.
theNguitar 6 months ago
all r discovered in ancient age
navinmnrk 6 months ago
I wonder what he would think of fractals in nature.
ScionLo 6 months ago
@ScionLo I believe he saw it. He saw that infinity stretches both ways. To the infinitly larger to the infinity smaller and that he (we) are somewhere in between. That we really are, gulp, insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Now having said that, please excuse me while go jump out a window. Ha!
ole9421 6 months ago
@ole9421 Nothing is insignificant. size and importance only reflects the person observing what ever he is looking at.
ScionLo 6 months ago
@ScionLo Yeah I agree. Especially when it comes to looking at my own dick. Heh, heh. Sorry couldn't let that one pass by. It's all relative, eh Spock?
ole9421 6 months ago
@ole9421 Bwaa haaa ...Penis.
ScionLo 6 months ago
pbansal's comments about the density of infinity is, from a mathematical view, wrong. Mathematician's view the infinities "2, 4, 6, ..." and "1, 2, 3, ..." as identical in size, because they can be put in 1-to-1 correspondence with each other. Similarly, sithis' suggestions about different infinities has nothing to do with the mathematical view. The smallest infinity is "1,2,3 ...". Cantor proved this is the same size as the set of all fractions, but is SMALLER than the infinity of real numbers.
chaveyd 6 months ago
@sithis1989 I think u spelt Ur infinity wrongly. And they're not trying to say that it's a big deal. Just opening up more insights to research and development:)
hanshidogs02 7 months ago
I honestly dont understand why this is supposed to be a big deal. Of course their are different kinds of invinities. The invinity of numbers between 1 and 2 is just the invinity of steps we can take between 1 and 2 but none of this numbers on its own has a larger value than 1, therefore this invinity is created by definition itself.
The second invinity is an invinity of value if u like and of course it contains other invinities cause we made them up.
Sithis1989 7 months ago
very insightful docufilm
SanJuanCreole 7 months ago
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Ebuverthebicepcurler 7 months ago
This kind of mathematic is intriguing, but remember, as an art form, we need to understand that art is subjective, not concrete. There may be rules of nature, but rules bend & break.
IMO, "infinity" is mind-made (which is without a doubt impressive to a certain degree). Suicidally speaking, I believe scientists/mathemeticians lose their sanity because of what they create in their minds. The same can be said by many creators and artists. Altogether, this is really really compelling stuff.
avacc88 7 months ago
please note most these geniuses got their inspiration and answers from nature, more interstingly their time spent outdoors interacting with the woods.....better stop cutting the trees till we figure this one out.
TheNaturalust 7 months ago
How can people try to define Infinity without being illiterate?? No offense to these great minds, but if you define the undefinable - you have created, accepted AND accepted the failure of your own paradox. Right? To me it seems like Potential is a good word to describe All/God/TheProcess. I mean, you can know about the nature of it all, and you can even know "some facts" so called, eventhough they are based in perception but w/e. Anyway, you can know Some, but NEVER All about it. What do I know
Earril 7 months ago
newww age stuf on BBC ooooo YEAH
sarthing 7 months ago
So, this Cantor is whom who started it all. I failed Engineering Mathematics 3 in my college because of this infinity topic. Repeated the subject but got C+. Anyway, great mathematician.
Mohibor 7 months ago
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Mohibor 7 months ago
there is an infinite amount of possibilities but finite energy, thats why there is an eternal recurrence of the same events
NORMANGODS 7 months ago
4:23 - This guy is on something...
SkrappyX3 7 months ago
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pbansal1989 7 months ago
How was it that they were able to see the many lines of numbers of infinities? Where can I find that information? Forgive my ignorance, obviously my mind isn't as developed as yours. :) Not intended to be sarcastic.
eyeluvcloe 7 months ago
@ChinaRuler in brief .. infinity isn't really infinity :) now i ruined your life forever enjoy
devilaliali 7 months ago
something like infinity multiplied infinity times, be it negative, positive, fractions, etc, will always end at the most infinite for the calculation, yet, 1 multiplied infinite times by 1 is always 1, so it wouldnt be infinite no matter how you try to calculate it according to this formula. the same happen to any other kind of formula you try to use or create and it is what drive people insane about it.
IronwillNeo 8 months ago
problem with it: he can try to get the infinite of positive numbers, negative numbers, fractions, etc, trying to set a formula that work for all of them, maybe even finding something over positive numbers, under negative numbers, etc, but for that he must use something to control his math and this thing that control the math bound his math to something infinite less this thing or to something not really infinite, then he try something else, and something else. thats what I got from his math life
IronwillNeo 8 months ago
This guy is obviously outside of party lines, I think he will undergo disintegration.
choobie12 8 months ago
@bindasUA Agreed, infinity + infinity seems an irrational concept to me, although it doesn't stop me telling my twins that I love them infinity times infinity. That's when infinity becomes useful. Expressing your love.
Nautilus1972 8 months ago
This German professor's voice and English is AWFUL. What can you expect from an Eastern German communist bitch??
joaquinveyron 8 months ago
@joaquinveyron When she was young she had probably no opportunity to learn english, so she had no chance to learn the language as good as young people today. How many languages besides your motherlanguage do you speak without an accent?! you should really think about the things you post!
kindderliebe1 8 months ago
forgive me but i think this is mind-fucking. math is limited. you will find things by design. its like asking "if a tree falls in the forest..." if you define what sound is, it will be easy to answer if it makes one. semantics.
AhYaOk 8 months ago
@AhYaOk You fail to understand that "If a tree falls in a forest..." is not a problem of logic or reason, but a Zen koan.
Nautilus1972 8 months ago
@Nautilus1972 yes, and its central to philosophy. subjective vs objective etc. the point is that there is some trickery going on here.
AhYaOk 8 months ago
"it may not have anything to do with [...]building bridges [...] but who cares?" these are the people that make art out of science.
But Mathematics is NOT Science! It is useful to Science. Most Mathematicians hardly know much Science. They confuse the Mathematics of the Science with Science itself, they post BS "Math created Internet/this or that" Bull! Engineers and Physicist had to understand the Real Science of materials and interaction and method of Harnessing them.
TRDGEEK 8 months ago
would I be saying lies if I said that I understand him?
JohnRobSur13 8 months ago
thats not logical if the number of lines were truly infinte it would fit the outer circle aswell and infinite other outer circles . Its is impossible to show any infinity with tools which are limited. So problem solved so why suicide ok maybe he just was crazy [yeah hering gods voice ... ] infinity cant be described by any means but u can imagine the outskirts of infinity>
infinity was always is always and awill always be for all time infintiy willb e all aroaund you
szebike 8 months ago
I understand every word but I'm still so confused. I'll probably have to watch this a few times over.
dutchyroxi 8 months ago
i wish this guy had been my maths teacher at school instead of a fat ugly canadian man with toilet breathe and a penchant for yelling. maybe then i would have passed!
danielligocenzo 8 months ago
Louis Sass is so badass.
malkooth 9 months ago
to attempt a quantatative definition of infinity requires logical thought. however, isn't the ultimate question= did consciousness arise out of inorganic matter or is the source of the universe a single immortal, omnipresent, and infinite consciousness?
dennistodd 9 months ago
Well, there are infinite number in an infinity, and there are infinite infinities, and there are infinite infinities of infinities, but each infinity cannot be contained by the larger since they are all never-ending.
supapwn 9 months ago
I don't find it hard to believe at all..... I don't see why there's so much drama surrounding it....
pwnageAAXAApker 9 months ago
Imagine what Cantor would've done with a computer.
rubbersole79 9 months ago 11
@rubbersole79 its obvious: divide by 0
nodeworks 4 months ago
This is the best cure for insomnia...
VegardMinde 9 months ago
I think I know a bit of the feeling that made him to kill himself.
It's the fear of everything could be possible like the collapse of all infinities and so on.
Robsshot 9 months ago
infinity + infinity = some more infinity..
chescarino 9 months ago
Why waste your time with infinity? Its bullshit
techking00107 9 months ago
How does the Universe excist in a human's mathmatical equation,we don't know the laws of our Universe,just like we invented time so we could label things in a certain way.Why does anything excist by the laws of human nature?There maybe a far superior race of beings with totally different ways of looking at things than us.Does that make them right & us wrong,who knows?
davyro66 9 months ago
Break down infinity mathematically:
1/1 = 1
1/0.1 = 10
1/0.01 = 100
1/0.001 = 1000
...
1/0.0000000000000...00001 = 1000000000000000000000...0000000 etc...
Infinity is not a number but a concept. If it were possible to divide by zero you would form a number so large it could not fit into the known universe. This is why the idea of infinity + 1 is false as it has no numerical standing. When applied to physical equations infinite limits represent all the values the variables can take.
AmusingYeti 9 months ago
Hang on, if one infinity is bigger than the other, then both must have a finite number assigned to them, so that we are able to recognise that one is bigger then the other mathematically, therefor neither are infinite.
jamespwatson 9 months ago
The size of the circle contains the infinity? You can always draw a bigger circle, so there's a problem with this concept of the circle.
slack7639 9 months ago
You can go infinitely smaller also ... man is unable to develop tools to measure either, so we are stuck within a range of mathematical understanding, which is how God made us. God appeared to us in the form of a man, Jesus, so we could understand the really important things that we need to know. Turn away from sin, and put your faith in Jesus today!
slack7639 9 months ago
5:36
religious =/= spiritual
nintram 10 months ago
"it may not have anything to do with [...]building bridges [...] but who cares?" these are the people that make art out of science.
Valness11 10 months ago 24
@Valness11
Wonderful!
SteveKelly1956 5 months ago
@Valness11 You mean they see the art nature has
FrancisHut 5 months ago
Incredible how the human behavior can act stupid in front of brilliance because of pride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FrancisHut 5 months ago
its like trying to make sense out of a higher dimension...you cant do it, no matter how hard you try
DesertSmeagle 10 months ago
I would think a bit of acid (LSD) would help me understand....wish me luck!
bermudaguy1 10 months ago
@bermudaguy1 Il join you:-)
MrBadlemon 10 months ago
think if cantor used arcs to make arcs he would have the right shape. think of music recordings you hear many instruments from one wave form, his idea of higher infinities is wrong I think. its just we can only witness some levels. the failing is in the human condition to divide. take the waveform for instance we hear many sounds yet their is only one. infinity equals 1.
virtualdrummodules 10 months ago
will someone close the door?
I don't want infinity to get out.
WolfEyesatNight 10 months ago
beautiful beautiful beautiful. This is very Anselmian, too.
ChatQuiTeVoit 10 months ago
beautiful beautiful beautiful.
ChatQuiTeVoit 10 months ago
I think he was on to the mathamatics of fractal patterns.
wiseyeffect 10 months ago
Glad to know I am not alone in my ideas.
Davidthehappyfellow 10 months ago
Many thanks for uploading this ! Its wonderful. Lee
alltycham 10 months ago
This shit was common to me since I was a kid. I knew "science" and "spirituality" were ONE. Hence the GREATEST scientific minds, ALWAYS having spiritual beliefs. Newton, Einstein, Tesla, Cantor, Maxwell ETC. But you mainstream scientists always try to limit ideas with skepticism and the fear of the infinite. It is RelIGION that limits the minds of people, but that does not mean infinite consciousness does not exist.
cloud0123 10 months ago 2
@cloud0123 Modern education has attempted to divorce science from spirituality because it is part of a terrible conspiracy to seperate us from the One the only one who can bless us with genius. Nearly every great scientist of history merely saw science as the study of Gods creation. They knew that science goes hand in hand with theology.
WorshipInTruth 10 months ago
My gut feeling is that Cantor will be proved right.
Gabriel11363 10 months ago
infinity is a mathematical anamoly which exists because wow stop the press... mathematics is not perfect. use a different language and infinity disappears. maths is just one of many languages used to explain what we see and it allows us to calculate many important things but it is not the ultimate knowledge of the universe. in physics they use the fact that they have ended up with infinity for an answer as meaning something is wrong.
intoxicologist 10 months ago
Some day it will be understood that the paradox is true, on both ends. We are finite, and we are infinite. It is this opposing paradox that actually fundamentally allows existence to come into being.
cloud0123 10 months ago
What I see time and time again in these documentaries is how some "scientists" often seem to be more interested in convenient explanations than finding the truth...and the ones who do not face a barrage of ego-based negativity and ridicule.
tvswnet 10 months ago
all this talk about infinity, which I partly do not understand, leads me to these question: why is everything decoded? why does human mind have barriers to understand infinity?
rawkidd2006 10 months ago
Ummm.....I think my calculator just topped itself!
RandomVortex 10 months ago
i just smoked that and i just got that and its blowing my mind.
anarchist3 11 months ago
"Some infinities are bigger than others". Well then clearly they aren't infinite!!
Sure you can imagine that infinity exists, and if it does by definition we can never "see it" because it never ends... The only infinity that makes any sense is time.
Mumsilius 11 months ago
@Mumsilius Why are you assuming that two infinities cannot be compared ? You will see in the later parts the significance of these different levels of infinity when Turing comes: There are an infinite(smller infinity) number of problems a computer can solve but the total number of problems is also infinite(bigger infinity). So, no matter what we do some problems will remain unsolvable. Similarly, you cannot prove everything in Mathematics.
pbansal1989 11 months ago
@pbansal1989 Because I believe there is no such thing as infinity. It's an illusion we have because we cannot grasp or comprehend extraordinarily large numbers/quantities/sizes and so forth... Just because we can't put our heads around it doesn't mean it's infinite. Our minds simply aren't built to see the world at this "macro" level since it has no use in the environment we live in. It's like we are looking up at this huge thingy and we can't see the end of it because it's so large...
Mumsilius 11 months ago
"And Galileo said; that makes no sense!" Yes it does. Infinitiy doesn't exist you moron!!
If there's something we should know it's that NOTHING lasts forever.
Mumsilius 11 months ago
@Mumsilius While you may not subscribe to the idea of infinity, I'm wondering how you are so confident that you can call someone who does a "moron."
tvswnet 10 months ago
@tvswnet hehe it just helped make my point. Obviously Galileo wasn't a moron, at least not a bigger moron than me. But to me this "problem" of infinity seems moronic. I'm not sure however, of anything...
Mumsilius 10 months ago
5:19 Yes, maths is the mountain of reality and I want to climb it.
Dolphidood 11 months ago
1, 2, 3, 4 ...............
2, 4, 6, 8.............
1, 4, 9, 16..........
the above three infinities are all same
But if we consider all the numbers between 0 and 1 which include rational numbers like 0.1, 0.01, .001, .02, 1/2, 1/3 , 1/4, and even bizarre irrational numbers like 1/pi, 1/root(2) etc then we have another infinity
They are saying that the 2nd infinity is bigger than the first one. The proof of this fact is very cool but this margin is too small to contain it.
pbansal1989 11 months ago 31
@pbansal1989
<3
affablegiraffable 9 months ago
@pbansal1989 ahhhhh what??? LOL
fromAtheism2Religion 9 months ago
@pbansal1989 If you don't try to contain it, you never will. Cantor challenged established beliefs and he gained ground. The human mind is a powerful thing. It cans solve anything in good time. The 2nd infinity will eventually be understood. :)
dinamo1233 7 months ago 5
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@dinamo1233 I agree that human mind is extremely powerful. Though in the later parts of the video(when Godel comes), it has been explained that there are some problems that we can never solve.
We have a very good understanding of the 2nd infinity. It's known that there is an infinity beyond the 2nd infinity, in fact there is an infinite hierarchy of infinities. :)
pbansal1989 7 months ago
threejay10 7 months ago
@pbansal1989 there is actually a way to explain this
there's something called "the density of infinity", so for instance
inifinity 2, 4, 6, ... has a certain density, the space between numbers is 2,
while infinity 1,2,3,... is more "denser" than the first one(1 space between numbers)
itsRAWRtime007 7 months ago
@pbansal1989 can any1 help me understand infinity ? like basic stuff what r they talking about im really interested in this kind of stuff but don't know what is it .. n yea i kno this sounds stupid sorry for that
5478926 7 months ago
@5478926 Think of any number. Now add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Then add 1 to it. Or, take any number and subtract 1 from it. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Then subtract 1. Infinity means "no end," because you can always add or subtract 1.
Pinepelt 6 months ago in playlist The Mathematicians
@Pinepelt yea i got that but like how do u apply it on our surroundings like physically i dunno how to explain
5478926 6 months ago
@Pinepelt Only sets with cardinality aleph-null--i.e., countable infinity. There is also an uncountable infinity which is even larger.
STSchifano 5 months ago
@STSchifano That makes sense. Thanks for your insight, STSchifano.
Pinepelt 5 months ago
8.56 TERRIBLE editing my god, everything else is so professional lol the editor must have been stoned that day
TheLydianRocks 11 months ago
I think maybe suicide was the only way he could understand infinity; perhaps he believed that in death, he could finally comprehend what he was looking for.
ledzeppelin4892000 11 months ago
This is dumb. I am 50% that this is all a joke. I likes that quantum physics movie way better than this. I think it called something down the rabbit hole.
geezmaynard 11 months ago
Hence the reason God cannot give man too much knowledge at one time. It would be too great and drive us mad, as it did with these scientists. We need to understand slowly, otherwise, we will stand in awe.
millerman40 11 months ago
lol..love this..make you think.. But, what is the point with calling them -different infinities after one infinity..i mean, the infinite is just -infinite right?..lol, get me? if there would be different infinities after one infinity, that would mean that one infinite is finite.. So, there is just -infinity. nothing more to it.
reallyfullofmyself 11 months ago
Mathematics of the infinity.
Sounds great!
Keeps the mathematicians busy.
You really don't want to have mathematicians with too much time on their hands running around...
BlizBob 11 months ago
let me quote the following verse from Quran
[33] "O assembly of jinn and men! If you have power to pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass (them)! But you will never be able to pass them, except with authority (from Allâh)!"
engman6 11 months ago
The logic to infinity is parallel universe theory
austpom333 11 months ago
TO INFINITY, AND BEYOND!! - Sir Buzz Light-year (Toy Story)
Wrap ur around that shit....Doritos.
buttlord123 11 months ago
Stop trying to understand and just live, science and mathematics along with religion have nothing... useless knowledge!
Nothing ever changes from beginning to end of creation, so let us rest from creation.
BrandurFilms1983 11 months ago
@ThePnFrank infinity + 54,000,000,000,000,000,000 +infinity = 54,000,000,000,000,000,000 +infinity.
nicoheckens1 11 months ago
@ThePnFrank infinity + 54,000,000,000,000,000,000 +infinity = 54,000,000,000,000,000,000 +infinity. You are adding whole numbers.
nicoheckens1 11 months ago
@nicoheckens1
this is awesome!!! i like it even i do not get a piece of it. The same with relativity teory! does anyone get it at all? :))
nathalush 11 months ago
WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ?
chadsexinton 11 months ago
to infinity and beyond!!
smash3r123 11 months ago
I don't see what's mind blowing about it... whether it is a larger integer or irrational number, it's the same concept... :/ so what's so great about them being on a higher level of hierarchy? It's not practical or significant at that moment..
spanishtrouble 11 months ago