I read in an article that both Jackson agreed to carry the fight all the way till the 20th round before they "get serious". But Ketchel felt a sense of urgency and went for the KO! And of course, Jackson blow him away with one powerful punch that almost killed him.
Maybe one of the strangest fights ever on film. An exhibition bout. Both fighters agreed not to "draw blood". But as the fight went on Johnson began hitting harder and bloodied Ketchels face. This went against what both fighters agreed to before the fight. The longer the bout lasted the more money each would recieve. So both wanted it to go the full 20 rounds. Ketchel assuming the agreement had been broken went for it. Knocked Johnson down with a punch that actually landed behind Johnson's ear.
@tiberiousss Once Johnson got back up(and he did get up rather quickly) Ketchels own reckless style was his undoing. Going in for the kill, and leaving himself wide open(perhaps thinking Johnson was still dazed) and maybe he was, but it was an obvious mistake by Ketchel and Johnson made him pay. After the fight they were seen together gambling. Ketchel losing much of his earnings according to one account.
this was no fix.film clips show johnson going for a ko several times in the early rounds.johnson always had excuses for a poor showing.overrated heavyweight.ketchel had no skills just a hard punching middle weight.johnson was decked buy a punch that should of been avoided.sam langford at 158 also decked johnson n joe cianoski koed him.etc etc
Maybe in terms of how they influenced and were a role model to future black boxers but not in ability. With all due respect to Johnson he was the smartest fighter of his time but if he went up against Ali (both in there prime) Ali would have annihilated him in the 3 rounds.
They were friends. They went to whore houses and drank and gambled together. Ketchel was not supposed to do that. So Jack made him pay big for it. Johnson said before the fight that he would not knock out Ketchel.
Aceracc323, yes, Johnson had skills but not nearly as good as you make him out to be. His rep is based primarily on his win over Jeffries, an older, out-of-shape Jeffries at that.
@jhs1958 as i remeber, he defended his title in that fight. the reason the fight even happened was because they could not find a boxer that could beat johnson. the search for the "Great White Hope" yelded only big countryboys who could not throw a puch, save for jess willard.
i dont think any african fighter would let a man throw a punch like that unless it was fixed and they offered him lots of money to take you can see johnson droping to take impact but that dude got knocked the f&*k out after that also johnson was sending him to school the whole fight anyway and yeah ali and him have very identical styles johson will always be a champion pioneer of boxing R.IP JACK JOHNSON heavyweight champ!!!
your great unfortunate grandfather pulled his ass out. at least he did tried to walk on water. you delarious muhterfucker. jonhson is a nigger like me. and you white bananas are what we eat. fuck u and you muhterfucker ass. I hope you catch HIV in your mouth.
This fight was more or less just a stunt for the two fighters. Ketchel just decided he was going to get frisky and throw that haymaker out of nowhere. Johnson was under the understanding that this was just for show.
The only reason Ketchel hit Johnson was that Jack was confused. Someone in his corner had just asked him how much two plus two was and he was puzzled. Ketchel hit him about that time.
It only happened at all because they ran out of heavyweights for him to fight! There's a great photo of the two men together before the fight, and they've given Ketchel a massive coat to make him look bigger. Ketchel was officially a middleweight, like you say.
Agreed johnson was one of those fighters that would cross any era and still be a heavyweight champion, he would've given ali all he could handle and would've driven mike tyson nuts within the clinches
the force of that punch sent johnson flying over his fallen opponent....simply amazing power, possibly the greatest heavyweight ever would have given ali and louis a great fight
There was an agreement but Ketchel doublecrossed Johnson with that suckerpunch so Johnson got up and beat the hell out of Ketchel knocking his teeth out with that brutal barrage of punches
Johnson was ahead of his time. The manner in which he leant his body backward, thereby eliminating much of the force of his opponent's punches, demonstrated a shrewd fighing brain. Ketchel looked the middleweight he was. Did they wear any kind of mouthguards in those days?
before the fight they agreed to make it last 20 rounds then johnson got the decision but johnson was takeing the piss knocked him over 4 times thats when ketchel swung for him didnt do him any favours in the long run but!!!
Jim Jefferies was the greatest heavweight ever , than Johnson , than Lois ... Ali would have been #8 behind Corbett and Dempsey and Tom Sharkey and Marciano
Johnson was far better than jim jeffreys. It would be interesting againt the early Ali prior to suspension. Dempsey's got lucky - he refused to fight blacks for the title.
How do you figure Johnson was far better than Jefferies ??? Jefferies was about 30% of his former self and lasted 15 rounds. Johnson ranked Jefferies as the best ever and than himself #2. They were close either way. Its true Dempsey did not fight Willis , but neither did Johnson defend against Langford , Jeannette etc. and neither would Wills , Langford etc. defend against a black fighter as that was the sign of the times (and that is sad , but true).
I am not too sure why Dempsey was lucky as langford and fighters who fought Dempsey and Wills said Dempsey would win. John Tate who fought Langford , Wiils etc. and was Dempsey's sparring fighter said Dempsey was easily the best fighter he faced. If Willis and Dempsey fought , it would be a easy decision for Dempsey or a 11th or so TKO for Dempsey.
Ok, sure the long layoff would have affected Jeffries - but by howmuch? No one can tell. but what we do see - dont let the 15 rounds fool anyone - was seriously onesided. Johnson was a more complete fighter, jefferies is too one-dimensional. Demsey' is better skills wise though against jeffries, i dont know.
That is true ... Johnson won almost every round in there fight , but Jefferies was 30% of what he was. Its like judging Johnson's loss to Choynski early in his career or to Willard , Ali's loss to Berbick , Lois to Marciano etc. Jeffereis hit as hard as any heavyweight and had strong endurance and was like a bigger / stronger Frazier. Dempsey maybe had more skill , but would ahve been knocked out by Jefferies.
how are you sure its 30% instead of say 0.1% or 99% - is there a magical instrument?
Maybe jefferies is shot - how much no one knows. But then all kinds of arguments can be made, the ducking etc. And hitting - all big men can hit but minus the skills, they dont get far or last long and i think jefferies is one dimensional, just like frazier. Ali and johnson are much more versatile. the same for dempsey though his lack of size is a major disadvantage against jefferies
That is true about my 30% as i did make it up. Its based on what Jefferies said , losing 90+ pounds in several months , 5 years on inactivity and based on him not fighting or lasting as long as he did as he had great endurance. Its probably less than 30% as I was generous. Who did he duck ... do you really think Johnson would beat Jefferies in 1902 to 1905 when he was KO'd in 3 rounds by Choynski and lost to Marvin Hart ???
the Choynski ko an marvin harts loss was before Johnson become the unofficial black heavyweight champ. He's since challenged jeffries to no avail. Even if we agree jeffires is shot by the time of the johnson fight, he is not skillwise durable enough against the best boxers. Jefferies is a brawler - they leave impressions of invincibility - until they come up against a good boxer. Eg tyson vs holyfield, ali vs foreman, hatton vs floyd.
Johnson was the Black heavyweight champion in 1903 two years after he was KO'd and 2 years before he lost to Hart (in 1905). Pls do not say Jefferies would have lost to Johnson between 1901 to 1905 when he was in his prime (and Johnson was not yet as his prime was 1907 to 1912). Foreman would have beaten Ali had they fought again ... why did Frazier beat Ali the first time and how could Marciano beat Charles / Walcott who were excellent boxers ???
yes a prime jefferies could beat johnson, ali/foreman II could go the other way. ie that boxers can/do lose to brawlers. But boxers have a way of winning fights,adapting, i just dont see in brawlers. Brawlers often lose in shut outs while boxers, eg in Ali/frazier I, ali looked better though he lost, the same for johnson/Jesse, Klitscko/brewster. I'll bet a boxer to avenge a loss, provide he has some beard and can pack a punch. just my prejudgice.
Jeffries was more than a brawler - although he could have been simply a brawler. Most of them are slow-footed. Jeffries was fast. Chin, power, fast - he would catch up to most boxer types.
Dempsey was the most exciting heavyweight champion. Also, what champion could have dealt with Dempsey's attack - as shown against Willard and Firpo. Answer: no one.
LOL - I cant seriously ever imagine that Frazier would have given an unbiased view on Ali. There was and still is alot of bad blood, certainly on Frazier's part there. I doubt if he hadnt that level of hatred that Ali-Frazier III would have been anywhere near as good as it was.
One of the following was the GREATEST heavyweight - Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey or Louis. On a super good day, Ali might win against them - but only every now and then. ALI was NOT the GREATEST.
And if u want to meet a MAN, let me know the gym and the time and I'll be there with my gear. I never turned pro because I went to COLLEGE so that my son wouldn't see his dad as a punch drunk asshole. And I can excuse Ali's boxing performances because of all that he did before he was old. Now tell me genius who IS the greatest heavyweight, I'll bet whoever u say will just make u look like more of a bigoted ass.
I'm not even gonna argue dude, and if u rea about the archery u know I box as well, my dad was a fighter, I've been in gyms since I was 7 yrs old, I'm 30. Do the math, anyway I'm not going to talk shit on some keyboard with some old guy, I have respect for my elders. It's obvious to me, that you're blatantly biased against ethnic fighters. Make REAL points, u can't because u can't argue with me over Ali, u have NO valid points, NONE.
Really? Well, rooty, toot, toot ! Dempsey ran 100 yards in 9.8 seconds. Slow-moving white guy ? Why don't you do some studying too ? Ali ? ("old" Liston, "no stamina" Foreman, "fair" Spinks, "Fair" Jimmy Young, Norton really beat him 3 of 3. NOT THE GREATEST.
Let me tell u Ali wiped out the Heavyweight division THREE times, twice when he was way past his prime. He beat the greatest heavyweights in the greatest era of heavyweights. Guys who are hall of fame top ten all time. And he beat them when THEY were in their primes. His hand speed, intelligence, you know what, this is pointless. People just hate him cuz of his name and religion, marciano ,dempsey, those guys couldn't shine his shoes.
ALL the great ones won the title and kept it until they were too old. Not LOUDMOUTH, he lost it twice when he was "in his prime" - prime mouth, that is. NOT THE GREATEST.
They kept their titles like Marciano and Joe Louis BECAUSE THEY NEVER FOUGHT GREAT FIGHTERS AND U KNOW IT. ALI FOUGHT GUYS THAT WERE GENUINELY DANGEROUS, GET A CLUE. iT'S MORE AND MORE APPARENT HOW LITTLE U KNOW ABOUT BOXING. IT'S ALSO APPARENT THAT UR COMMENTARY IS BASED ON HATE, SO JUST LET IT GO, BECAUSE REAL FIGHTERS AND BOXING OFFICIONADOS KNOW THAT ALI WAS THE GREATEST EVER SO UR OPINION MEANS SHIT.
C'mon dude he fought them when he was like 100 yrs old, make some sense moron. I bet ur favorite was Marciano or Joe Louis huh? 2 tomato cans who fought slow plodding white guys their whole careers.
Yes, but Johnson wasn't expecting Ketchel to throw any heavy punches that is why he let his guard down. That was a big mistake since an infuriated Johnson knocked out all his teeth.
Ketchel was murdered a year after this fight and he never spoke of it, so we'll never hear his side. If it was an "agreement", Johnson sure beat the crap out of Ketchel up to that point. I think Johnson was spinning his knockdown, just like he tried to spin his KO by Willard as a dive.
You can't say Johnson had a glass jaw just because of a flash kd from one of the great middleweight punchers of all time. The reason for the kd is that Johnson wasn't expecting it. He and Ketchel were friends who drank and chased women together on several occasions, and they secretly agreed to hold back in this fight. Then Ketchel caught Johnson with that haymaker and Johnson took it as a dealbreaker--that's why he got right up and kayoed Ketchel. He could've done it earlier if he'd wanted to.
by the way, your boy ketchel was no middle weight for this fight. 170 was his weigh-in, johnson 205 and a half. so its a lightheavy catching a heavy, not a middie.
Ketchel may well have been 170. He may have been the best MW, ever. Johnson was a huge man 100 years ago. That's my point, Johnson was getting tagged and knocked down and sometimes knocked out by men much smaller than him. I don't "want" to see a glass jaw; Ketchel throws one punch, Johnson goes down. I see what I see. I'm not demeaning Johnson's ability to fight, he was probably the best defensive fighter in any weight class, ever.
The fact that Ketchel, a middle weight, decked Johnson is proof that Johnson had a glass jaw. Thus, when Willard crumpled Johnson with one punch, Johnson did not throw the fight as he claimed. The man just could not take a punch. That's why he developed his good defensive skills - he had to.
a glass jaw is when you don't get back up. ali was floored in his career, but rose immediately, as johnson did here. falling does not make a fighter have a glass jaw.
No, a glass jaw means a weak chin. Not necessarily that you don't get up. Frazier got knocked down by Foreman, who wouldn't. But he didn't have a glass jaw. A HW getting decked by a MW implies a weak jaw for his size. I'd have to check Johnson's record, but I believe most of his losses were KO's.
perhaps in your world, a glass jaw means "a weak chin,"whatever the hell that means. in the actual world of boxing, which already exists independant of yours or my opinion, the term glass jaw means a fighter easy to knock out by hitting him on the chin, not one who gets knocked down.
how weak was johnsons chin when he got up at the count of one and knocked this dudes front teeth out four seconds later? by your definition, everyone who ever got caught and went down had a glass jaw. that would be every great fighter you could name; louis, robinson, dempsey, ali, marciano, frazier, etc. everybody who fights goes down sometime.
No, you're not paying attention to what I said. I said a HW getting decked by a MW would indicate a weak jaw for his size. Johnson was KO'd by Choyinski and Willard (there may be others) and these 2 guys were not necessarily known for their punch. Glass jaw no matter how you define it.
willard knocked johnson out in the 26th round with "one punch". you don't think the other 1,200 had anything to do with it? you would call a man who goes down from a punch in the 26th round a glass jaw fighter?
johnson was stopped 6 times in a career that spanned 44 years and 124 fights. two were stopped because he broke his hand in one and got thumbed in the other. 4 were listed as ko's, two were when he was 34 years in and 44 years in respectively. so only two from his prime. you see a glass jaw because you want to.
i get your thought about getting caught by a middleweight, looks shaky, but judging by the rest of his career, he just got caught is all. got off the floor and beat your boy ketchel down pretty good.
No, I don't think the other 1200 had much to do with it. He blocked those. I think what failed him in this fight eventually was his great defensive skill. He was older, reflexes had slowed (in his youth he could catch a fly mid air with his bare hand). Younger guy catches him with a good punch, boom, out go the lights.
younger guy who out-weighs him by anywhere from 30 to 60 pounds, depending on who you ask. his chin was not his greatest strength; as you pointed out, defense was his thing, but his career numbers don't indicate a glass jaw, certainly not by todays standards.
joe choyinski was a very hard hitter. he fought jim jeffries and hit him in the mouth so hard that jeffries corner had to pry his lips from his teeth. joe's ko over jack johnson happend before johnson had developed as a fighter. it was joe who taught jack johnson how to really box when they were in jail for an illegal boxing match, the one were joe ko jack.
how weak was johnsons chin when he got up at the count of one and knocked this dudes front teeth out four seconds later? -sean
Johnson was down for an 8 count not 1 and the story about teeth stuck in his glove is horshit spread by Johnoson himself. Look at the video. If Jack has teeth stuck in his right glove, why is he wiping his left?
i saw the ref count 5 actually, so we're both off. go to espn site, go to boxing, they're doing top ten heavyweights of all time. in jack johnsons section burt sugar tells the teeth-in-glove story too. 1909, none of us was there, so we'll never know.
Johnson was famous for telling fish stories. watch the whole movie. Ketchel lands many body blows, Johnson holds constantly, KEtchel wins rounds 9-10-11 and knocks this clown down. Johnson is wiping his LEFT glove. The tooth story comes from JOHNSON. Ketchel got careless after the knock down and got caught. Johnson is over rated. Could you see Marvin Hagler knocking down Ali? Not.
have it your way. but bob foster did what no heavyweight did to ali---he cut him, and gave him a good fight right up to the end. same with louis/conn. ketchel/johnson was billed as an exhibition, ketchel tried to get cute, and paid dearly.
Ketchel weighed 170lbs for this fight. Bob Fitzsimmons was around the same weight in both his fights with Jim Jeffries, where he outboxed and battered him bloody before falling twice to the bigger man. So if in your opinion Johnson is a clown because of one knockdown, what do you make of Jeffries?
Fitz was taller than Ketchel, thus he was better at the defensive/stand-offish style of the older fighters. Their relative hitting powers? Well, how do you judge? This is tough for me to judge b/c I think they are both among the greatest ever. Fitz is very over-looked, and that's a shame. A man his weight KO's heavyweights and no modern boxing writer seems to notice.
I watched the video. Although Sugar is older than dirt, he was not at ringside. Also, this looks like a fight to me with all the people there? Hardly an exhibition.
in those days, exhibitions were common, just as common as 'actual' bouts. dempsey used to pack em in for exhibitions, as did joe louis later. lots of white people showed up to watch johnson fight in hopes some whiteboy would get him.
Johnson is clearly down for a count of five, but anyone can see he was not badly hurt. Johnson was fond of telling tall tales and I do doubt the story that Ketchel had 'crossed' him.
of course by then Ketchel was already dead & could not dispute the story.
You dont have to believe me. Why Would I make it up? Its not like Ketchel is a superstar like DiMaggio, Ruth, or Namath. He was a guy I had heard of through this family story. The neat thing was that I had friends that live on his street.
but let me tell ya,Ketchel IS a legend. these american sports stars you named are legends in their own backyards.believe it or not but they mean NOTHING to anybody in the rest of the world.Ketchel is a ring immortal.that makes him more than a superstar,and makes your story even cooler than you seem to realise!!!!
CuntyB,you're correct:Ketchel is an immortal! I tell boxing fans about the guy who:was the first to regain the mid title;had 49 KOs in 54 wins;fought greats like,Phil Jack O'Brien (KO'ing him twice!),Johnson (knocking him down),fought Langford to a 6 rd. ND AND did all this before he died at 24 years of age.Also,watch this film:Johnson is NOT going easy on Ketchel, folks. He just can't KO him until Ketchel impaled himself on JJ's gloves! Johnson, great, yes, but the best clincher/grabber ever!
Well if you want the history. Maurice Clark was an athletic trainer from the Grand Rapids area of Michigan. He trained Stanley Ketchel until the Joe Thomas fight in 1908 and parted ways because Kethchel had started using drugs and didnt want to be associated with it. The street Stanley was born on in Comstock Park on Little Pine Island Lake would be named after him. I dont know what other kind of proof youre looking for? I just know the story.
As much as I admire Johnson...to not see that overhand right coming is surprising, especially since he was the best defensive fighter of that era, by far!
I like your video clip and have rated it as awesome. Please view my clip of some 1930's boxing tobacco cards. They include Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey , Joe Louis and many more.
Rumor had it that the two fighters had arranged for the fight to go a long time for the benefit of the cameras. When Ketchel broke the agreement by decking Johnson, the champ got pissed off and he knocked Ketchel cold.
Holy crap. Jack Johnson knocked several of Ketchel's teeth out "from the roots" and "wiped some of the teeth off of his gloves" almost killing him in the process.
This is a Polish awesome fighter!!! Ketchel=Kiecal ;)
pggik11 1 month ago
Comment removed
AllanWellsfanclub 2 months ago
I read in an article that both Jackson agreed to carry the fight all the way till the 20th round before they "get serious". But Ketchel felt a sense of urgency and went for the KO! And of course, Jackson blow him away with one powerful punch that almost killed him.
expressivechild 10 months ago
Maybe one of the strangest fights ever on film. An exhibition bout. Both fighters agreed not to "draw blood". But as the fight went on Johnson began hitting harder and bloodied Ketchels face. This went against what both fighters agreed to before the fight. The longer the bout lasted the more money each would recieve. So both wanted it to go the full 20 rounds. Ketchel assuming the agreement had been broken went for it. Knocked Johnson down with a punch that actually landed behind Johnson's ear.
tiberiousss 1 year ago
@tiberiousss Once Johnson got back up(and he did get up rather quickly) Ketchels own reckless style was his undoing. Going in for the kill, and leaving himself wide open(perhaps thinking Johnson was still dazed) and maybe he was, but it was an obvious mistake by Ketchel and Johnson made him pay. After the fight they were seen together gambling. Ketchel losing much of his earnings according to one account.
tiberiousss 1 year ago
ayos!
noypinga 1 year ago
wow 101 years ago :D
Blackjesus3 1 year ago 5
@Blackjesus3 101years and 11months :D
chrismck100 11 months ago
@chrismck100 chea :D
Blackjesus3 11 months ago
this was no fix.film clips show johnson going for a ko several times in the early rounds.johnson always had excuses for a poor showing.overrated heavyweight.ketchel had no skills just a hard punching middle weight.johnson was decked buy a punch that should of been avoided.sam langford at 158 also decked johnson n joe cianoski koed him.etc etc
dmar5143 2 years ago
jack johnson was a AMAZING boxer and some(including me)call him ali's equal
mesk1447 2 years ago
@mesk1447
Maybe in terms of how they influenced and were a role model to future black boxers but not in ability. With all due respect to Johnson he was the smartest fighter of his time but if he went up against Ali (both in there prime) Ali would have annihilated him in the 3 rounds.
Freddie1980 1 year ago
They were friends. They went to whore houses and drank and gambled together. Ketchel was not supposed to do that. So Jack made him pay big for it. Johnson said before the fight that he would not knock out Ketchel.
BP3DP 2 years ago 4
The fact that you have the ratings on YOUR comments Disabled says it all.
The same Coward Blood in all those People @ Ring side Still Lives on. It's not about White our Black The Man had skills.
aceracc323 2 years ago
Aceracc323, yes, Johnson had skills but not nearly as good as you make him out to be. His rep is based primarily on his win over Jeffries, an older, out-of-shape Jeffries at that.
jhs1958 2 years ago
No it's not, are you retarded... Nevermind... You don't need to answer that. Your previous comments on this video answer it for me already.
Johnathon198821 2 years ago
@jhs1958 as i remeber, he defended his title in that fight. the reason the fight even happened was because they could not find a boxer that could beat johnson. the search for the "Great White Hope" yelded only big countryboys who could not throw a puch, save for jess willard.
avalsonline2 1 year ago
Hey Aceracc323, Johnson did not walk on water.
jhs1958 2 years ago
JJ KO's Catchall with a right, but he seems to be wiping his left hand as if that one was the one with the imbedded teeth. WTF?
zanti209 2 years ago
i dont think any african fighter would let a man throw a punch like that unless it was fixed and they offered him lots of money to take you can see johnson droping to take impact but that dude got knocked the f&*k out after that also johnson was sending him to school the whole fight anyway and yeah ali and him have very identical styles johson will always be a champion pioneer of boxing R.IP JACK JOHNSON heavyweight champ!!!
LilHemiAKA47 2 years ago
Oh yeah, Jack was almost a god. He tried walking on water once - almost drowned. Some white guy pulled his ass out.
jhs1958 2 years ago
your great unfortunate grandfather pulled his ass out. at least he did tried to walk on water. you delarious muhterfucker. jonhson is a nigger like me. and you white bananas are what we eat. fuck u and you muhterfucker ass. I hope you catch HIV in your mouth.
osara4love1 2 years ago
osara, sho 'nuff, yo is what yo is !!!
jhs1958 2 years ago
Three things I know of can multiply but can't add or subtract. They are fleas, lice and n--- oh, well, you know.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Comment removed
rollindts44 2 years ago
never mind what i said before, i didnt read the other guys comments.
rollindts44 2 years ago
This fight was more or less just a stunt for the two fighters. Ketchel just decided he was going to get frisky and throw that haymaker out of nowhere. Johnson was under the understanding that this was just for show.
Johnathon198821 2 years ago
The only reason Ketchel hit Johnson was that Jack was confused. Someone in his corner had just asked him how much two plus two was and he was puzzled. Ketchel hit him about that time.
jhs1958 2 years ago
I swear, it looks like that punch that put Johnson down didn't even land
mrtony80 2 years ago
oh man, he was pissed, dam plus he ran into that punch
tastyscabs 2 years ago
This fight would never happen today.
Jack Johnson was a 221 lb. heavyweight and Stanley Ketchel
weighed 160 lbs. You would never see Vitali Klitschko fight Oscar De Lahoya.
It's amazing that Stanley Ketchel lasted as long as he did against Jack Johnson. Johnson was one of the hardest hitting heavyweights ever.
rrtodd95 2 years ago
It only happened at all because they ran out of heavyweights for him to fight! There's a great photo of the two men together before the fight, and they've given Ketchel a massive coat to make him look bigger. Ketchel was officially a middleweight, like you say.
shaherrazam 2 years ago
Johnson was NOT such a heavy hitter. He was too focused on NOT getting hit.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Ali almost had the same stance as Johnson.
guard down to his hips.
KillaCam97 2 years ago
Yup, both JJ and MA are overrated.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Jake la Motta v Joe Louis
lovabull1 2 years ago
La motta didn't hit hard enough to knock a heavy down. Ketchel did..
shire2005 2 years ago
Stanley vs J.Johnson is?....
Hagler vs Tysón?
Monzón vs Ali?
Robinsón vs Dempsey?........
rolandoen 2 years ago
god bless youtube for making videos like this availible for me to watch.
chrisharbidge 2 years ago
didnt johnson take a dive in one of his fights
246DEK74 2 years ago
Agreed johnson was one of those fighters that would cross any era and still be a heavyweight champion, he would've given ali all he could handle and would've driven mike tyson nuts within the clinches
overdozerecords 2 years ago
the force of that punch sent johnson flying over his fallen opponent....simply amazing power, possibly the greatest heavyweight ever would have given ali and louis a great fight
deuce4off 3 years ago
He had some of Ketchel's teeth stuck in his boxing glove after that ko.
rrtodd95 2 years ago
There was an agreement but Ketchel doublecrossed Johnson with that suckerpunch so Johnson got up and beat the hell out of Ketchel knocking his teeth out with that brutal barrage of punches
luckychucky777 3 years ago
Johnson was ahead of his time. The manner in which he leant his body backward, thereby eliminating much of the force of his opponent's punches, demonstrated a shrewd fighing brain. Ketchel looked the middleweight he was. Did they wear any kind of mouthguards in those days?
Czerniakowska 3 years ago
That's right
ArubaG 3 years ago
no mouthguards
deuce4off 3 years ago
lol this video kind of made me horny o
ba2rn3 3 years ago
katchel was a legend and only a middleweight it's a pity he died so young
willis7319 3 years ago 2
Yeah. That is so sad.
northside80 3 years ago
Ketchel got his ass whooped! Johnson was PLAYING with him!
maelstrom360 3 years ago
before the fight they agreed to make it last 20 rounds then johnson got the decision but johnson was takeing the piss knocked him over 4 times thats when ketchel swung for him didnt do him any favours in the long run but!!!
liamgyu 3 years ago
There was no agreement.
Johnson knocked Ketchel down in the earlier rounds and bloodied him up
ebeneezzer 3 years ago
thats what i read somewhere
liamgyu 3 years ago
at that time, the rules was totally different from today's
vivard 3 years ago
forget "sugar ray" ali etc etc "pound for pound" this guy was the greatest fighyer who wver lived!!! (and I mean ketchel not johnson)
honolulublue37 3 years ago
i cant believe he actually got that shot off he took such a big swing lol
MMAMickey 4 years ago
that referee sure was counting fast when johnson was on the canvass........lol
alsmithjr633 4 years ago
stanley:) polish power:) my man! something like andrew golota, but stanley is a legend:)
nerkoneest 4 years ago 2
NO MIDDLEWEIGHT HIT LIKE KETCHEL
look at his record,yeah he was limited in terms of technique but POWER,my god he was ALL POWER. you cant compare Hagler and Ketchel for power
cuntyballs07 4 years ago
I suspect Fitzsimmons hit as hard or harder than Ketchel. Bob KO'd heavyweights for the better part of his career. Ketchel fought mostly middies.
jhs1958 4 years ago
yes but Ketchel was killed when he was 24 years old
he didn't show his real skills
mariutunio 4 years ago
Age and prime are different things.
Mike Tyson's peak was 1988 at 22 years old, and when Tyson lost the title at 23 years old, he was NEVER again the same fighter he once had been.
bradlee180 3 years ago
Dempsey never refused to fight blacks it was his management refused them once he was champion.
On his way up dfempsey fought black fighters.
Johnson was treated disgracefully by the American authorities, Jack johnson was a master boxer who for me was one of the best ever.
porlie1978 4 years ago
If Johnson has Ketchels teeth in his right glove, why is he wiping his left glove?
bassstop 4 years ago
Jim Jefferies was the greatest heavweight ever , than Johnson , than Lois ... Ali would have been #8 behind Corbett and Dempsey and Tom Sharkey and Marciano
dorsi68 4 years ago
Johnson was far better than jim jeffreys. It would be interesting againt the early Ali prior to suspension. Dempsey's got lucky - he refused to fight blacks for the title.
0timide 4 years ago
How do you figure Johnson was far better than Jefferies ??? Jefferies was about 30% of his former self and lasted 15 rounds. Johnson ranked Jefferies as the best ever and than himself #2. They were close either way. Its true Dempsey did not fight Willis , but neither did Johnson defend against Langford , Jeannette etc. and neither would Wills , Langford etc. defend against a black fighter as that was the sign of the times (and that is sad , but true).
dorsi68 4 years ago
I am not too sure why Dempsey was lucky as langford and fighters who fought Dempsey and Wills said Dempsey would win. John Tate who fought Langford , Wiils etc. and was Dempsey's sparring fighter said Dempsey was easily the best fighter he faced. If Willis and Dempsey fought , it would be a easy decision for Dempsey or a 11th or so TKO for Dempsey.
dorsi68 4 years ago
Ok, sure the long layoff would have affected Jeffries - but by howmuch? No one can tell. but what we do see - dont let the 15 rounds fool anyone - was seriously onesided. Johnson was a more complete fighter, jefferies is too one-dimensional. Demsey' is better skills wise though against jeffries, i dont know.
0timide 4 years ago
That is true ... Johnson won almost every round in there fight , but Jefferies was 30% of what he was. Its like judging Johnson's loss to Choynski early in his career or to Willard , Ali's loss to Berbick , Lois to Marciano etc. Jeffereis hit as hard as any heavyweight and had strong endurance and was like a bigger / stronger Frazier. Dempsey maybe had more skill , but would ahve been knocked out by Jefferies.
dorsi68 4 years ago
how are you sure its 30% instead of say 0.1% or 99% - is there a magical instrument?
Maybe jefferies is shot - how much no one knows. But then all kinds of arguments can be made, the ducking etc. And hitting - all big men can hit but minus the skills, they dont get far or last long and i think jefferies is one dimensional, just like frazier. Ali and johnson are much more versatile. the same for dempsey though his lack of size is a major disadvantage against jefferies
0timide 4 years ago
That is true about my 30% as i did make it up. Its based on what Jefferies said , losing 90+ pounds in several months , 5 years on inactivity and based on him not fighting or lasting as long as he did as he had great endurance. Its probably less than 30% as I was generous. Who did he duck ... do you really think Johnson would beat Jefferies in 1902 to 1905 when he was KO'd in 3 rounds by Choynski and lost to Marvin Hart ???
dorsi68 4 years ago
the Choynski ko an marvin harts loss was before Johnson become the unofficial black heavyweight champ. He's since challenged jeffries to no avail. Even if we agree jeffires is shot by the time of the johnson fight, he is not skillwise durable enough against the best boxers. Jefferies is a brawler - they leave impressions of invincibility - until they come up against a good boxer. Eg tyson vs holyfield, ali vs foreman, hatton vs floyd.
0timide 4 years ago
Johnson was the Black heavyweight champion in 1903 two years after he was KO'd and 2 years before he lost to Hart (in 1905). Pls do not say Jefferies would have lost to Johnson between 1901 to 1905 when he was in his prime (and Johnson was not yet as his prime was 1907 to 1912). Foreman would have beaten Ali had they fought again ... why did Frazier beat Ali the first time and how could Marciano beat Charles / Walcott who were excellent boxers ???
dorsi68 4 years ago
yes a prime jefferies could beat johnson, ali/foreman II could go the other way. ie that boxers can/do lose to brawlers. But boxers have a way of winning fights,adapting, i just dont see in brawlers. Brawlers often lose in shut outs while boxers, eg in Ali/frazier I, ali looked better though he lost, the same for johnson/Jesse, Klitscko/brewster. I'll bet a boxer to avenge a loss, provide he has some beard and can pack a punch. just my prejudgice.
0timide 4 years ago
Jeffries was more than a brawler - although he could have been simply a brawler. Most of them are slow-footed. Jeffries was fast. Chin, power, fast - he would catch up to most boxer types.
jhs1958 4 years ago
maybe we should just let it go - all are great champions. Everything we say here are just mere opinions. IN the ring, anything can happen. so peace
0timide 4 years ago
Dempsey was the most exciting heavyweight champion. Also, what champion could have dealt with Dempsey's attack - as shown against Willard and Firpo. Answer: no one.
LorcanFilms 4 years ago
LOL - I cant seriously ever imagine that Frazier would have given an unbiased view on Ali. There was and still is alot of bad blood, certainly on Frazier's part there. I doubt if he hadnt that level of hatred that Ali-Frazier III would have been anywhere near as good as it was.
Allritemat 4 years ago
One of the following was the GREATEST heavyweight - Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey or Louis. On a super good day, Ali might win against them - but only every now and then. ALI was NOT the GREATEST.
jhs1958 4 years ago
And if u want to meet a MAN, let me know the gym and the time and I'll be there with my gear. I never turned pro because I went to COLLEGE so that my son wouldn't see his dad as a punch drunk asshole. And I can excuse Ali's boxing performances because of all that he did before he was old. Now tell me genius who IS the greatest heavyweight, I'll bet whoever u say will just make u look like more of a bigoted ass.
merce77 4 years ago
Ug, me man. Er, uh, duh, caveman !
jhs1958 4 years ago
ur a complete idiot. who give a shit about 100 yard dash inside a small ring, u obviously know shit about boxing.
merce77 4 years ago
Careful, BOY !
jhs1958 4 years ago
Like I said, u obviously know shit about boxing.
merce77 4 years ago
Merce77, you'd better stick with archery. leave boxing to the men !
jhs1958 4 years ago
I'm not even gonna argue dude, and if u rea about the archery u know I box as well, my dad was a fighter, I've been in gyms since I was 7 yrs old, I'm 30. Do the math, anyway I'm not going to talk shit on some keyboard with some old guy, I have respect for my elders. It's obvious to me, that you're blatantly biased against ethnic fighters. Make REAL points, u can't because u can't argue with me over Ali, u have NO valid points, NONE.
merce77 4 years ago
Really? Well, rooty, toot, toot ! Dempsey ran 100 yards in 9.8 seconds. Slow-moving white guy ? Why don't you do some studying too ? Ali ? ("old" Liston, "no stamina" Foreman, "fair" Spinks, "Fair" Jimmy Young, Norton really beat him 3 of 3. NOT THE GREATEST.
jhs1958 4 years ago
The SPEED of ALI's mouth was unbelievable. ONLY THE GREATEST TALKER - NOT THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT !
jhs1958 4 years ago
How come you excuse Ali's losses as past his best. But, Jeffries, Dempsey, etc., you do not ? EXPLAIN, can you? NOPE.
jhs1958 4 years ago
Let me tell u Ali wiped out the Heavyweight division THREE times, twice when he was way past his prime. He beat the greatest heavyweights in the greatest era of heavyweights. Guys who are hall of fame top ten all time. And he beat them when THEY were in their primes. His hand speed, intelligence, you know what, this is pointless. People just hate him cuz of his name and religion, marciano ,dempsey, those guys couldn't shine his shoes.
merce77 4 years ago
ALL the great ones won the title and kept it until they were too old. Not LOUDMOUTH, he lost it twice when he was "in his prime" - prime mouth, that is. NOT THE GREATEST.
jhs1958 4 years ago
They kept their titles like Marciano and Joe Louis BECAUSE THEY NEVER FOUGHT GREAT FIGHTERS AND U KNOW IT. ALI FOUGHT GUYS THAT WERE GENUINELY DANGEROUS, GET A CLUE. iT'S MORE AND MORE APPARENT HOW LITTLE U KNOW ABOUT BOXING. IT'S ALSO APPARENT THAT UR COMMENTARY IS BASED ON HATE, SO JUST LET IT GO, BECAUSE REAL FIGHTERS AND BOXING OFFICIONADOS KNOW THAT ALI WAS THE GREATEST EVER SO UR OPINION MEANS SHIT.
merce77 4 years ago
Your mouth and language indicates where the HATE is. Duh ??????
jhs1958 4 years ago
It doesn't matter becase neither one of them could ever fuck with Ali on their best day. Greatest fighter ever.
merce77 4 years ago
Oh yeah? I saw Ali against Spinks and Holmes. He didn't look very good. Actually, he looked like a joke.
jhs1958 4 years ago
C'mon dude he fought them when he was like 100 yrs old, make some sense moron. I bet ur favorite was Marciano or Joe Louis huh? 2 tomato cans who fought slow plodding white guys their whole careers.
merce77 4 years ago
fake
gldmj55 4 years ago
Knocked out his upper and lower teeth at the root ?!! Had to pluck them from his his glove ?!! That's power !
dgil1911 4 years ago
And then got knocked the fvck out ! LOL !
dgil1911 4 years ago
Fighters were amazing in those days to say the least. Some fights used to go over 20 rounds or more back then.
louthebody 4 years ago
Yes, but Johnson wasn't expecting Ketchel to throw any heavy punches that is why he let his guard down. That was a big mistake since an infuriated Johnson knocked out all his teeth.
osvie01 4 years ago
He knocked his muthafuckin' teeth out from the roots!....Don't sound fixed to me!
lboogie75 4 years ago
Ketchel was murdered a year after this fight and he never spoke of it, so we'll never hear his side. If it was an "agreement", Johnson sure beat the crap out of Ketchel up to that point. I think Johnson was spinning his knockdown, just like he tried to spin his KO by Willard as a dive.
TheGink 4 years ago
You can't say Johnson had a glass jaw just because of a flash kd from one of the great middleweight punchers of all time. The reason for the kd is that Johnson wasn't expecting it. He and Ketchel were friends who drank and chased women together on several occasions, and they secretly agreed to hold back in this fight. Then Ketchel caught Johnson with that haymaker and Johnson took it as a dealbreaker--that's why he got right up and kayoed Ketchel. He could've done it earlier if he'd wanted to.
rawcer 4 years ago
by the way, your boy ketchel was no middle weight for this fight. 170 was his weigh-in, johnson 205 and a half. so its a lightheavy catching a heavy, not a middie.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
Ketchel may well have been 170. He may have been the best MW, ever. Johnson was a huge man 100 years ago. That's my point, Johnson was getting tagged and knocked down and sometimes knocked out by men much smaller than him. I don't "want" to see a glass jaw; Ketchel throws one punch, Johnson goes down. I see what I see. I'm not demeaning Johnson's ability to fight, he was probably the best defensive fighter in any weight class, ever.
TheGink 4 years ago
The fact that Ketchel, a middle weight, decked Johnson is proof that Johnson had a glass jaw. Thus, when Willard crumpled Johnson with one punch, Johnson did not throw the fight as he claimed. The man just could not take a punch. That's why he developed his good defensive skills - he had to.
TheGink 4 years ago
a glass jaw is when you don't get back up. ali was floored in his career, but rose immediately, as johnson did here. falling does not make a fighter have a glass jaw.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
No, a glass jaw means a weak chin. Not necessarily that you don't get up. Frazier got knocked down by Foreman, who wouldn't. But he didn't have a glass jaw. A HW getting decked by a MW implies a weak jaw for his size. I'd have to check Johnson's record, but I believe most of his losses were KO's.
TheGink 4 years ago
perhaps in your world, a glass jaw means "a weak chin,"whatever the hell that means. in the actual world of boxing, which already exists independant of yours or my opinion, the term glass jaw means a fighter easy to knock out by hitting him on the chin, not one who gets knocked down.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
how weak was johnsons chin when he got up at the count of one and knocked this dudes front teeth out four seconds later? by your definition, everyone who ever got caught and went down had a glass jaw. that would be every great fighter you could name; louis, robinson, dempsey, ali, marciano, frazier, etc. everybody who fights goes down sometime.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
No, you're not paying attention to what I said. I said a HW getting decked by a MW would indicate a weak jaw for his size. Johnson was KO'd by Choyinski and Willard (there may be others) and these 2 guys were not necessarily known for their punch. Glass jaw no matter how you define it.
TheGink 4 years ago
willard knocked johnson out in the 26th round with "one punch". you don't think the other 1,200 had anything to do with it? you would call a man who goes down from a punch in the 26th round a glass jaw fighter?
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
johnson was stopped 6 times in a career that spanned 44 years and 124 fights. two were stopped because he broke his hand in one and got thumbed in the other. 4 were listed as ko's, two were when he was 34 years in and 44 years in respectively. so only two from his prime. you see a glass jaw because you want to.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
i get your thought about getting caught by a middleweight, looks shaky, but judging by the rest of his career, he just got caught is all. got off the floor and beat your boy ketchel down pretty good.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
No, I don't think the other 1200 had much to do with it. He blocked those. I think what failed him in this fight eventually was his great defensive skill. He was older, reflexes had slowed (in his youth he could catch a fly mid air with his bare hand). Younger guy catches him with a good punch, boom, out go the lights.
TheGink 4 years ago
younger guy who out-weighs him by anywhere from 30 to 60 pounds, depending on who you ask. his chin was not his greatest strength; as you pointed out, defense was his thing, but his career numbers don't indicate a glass jaw, certainly not by todays standards.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
joe choyinski was a very hard hitter. he fought jim jeffries and hit him in the mouth so hard that jeffries corner had to pry his lips from his teeth. joe's ko over jack johnson happend before johnson had developed as a fighter. it was joe who taught jack johnson how to really box when they were in jail for an illegal boxing match, the one were joe ko jack.
bigzapp 4 years ago
how weak was johnsons chin when he got up at the count of one and knocked this dudes front teeth out four seconds later? -sean
Johnson was down for an 8 count not 1 and the story about teeth stuck in his glove is horshit spread by Johnoson himself. Look at the video. If Jack has teeth stuck in his right glove, why is he wiping his left?
bassstop 4 years ago
i saw the ref count 5 actually, so we're both off. go to espn site, go to boxing, they're doing top ten heavyweights of all time. in jack johnsons section burt sugar tells the teeth-in-glove story too. 1909, none of us was there, so we'll never know.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
Johnson was famous for telling fish stories. watch the whole movie. Ketchel lands many body blows, Johnson holds constantly, KEtchel wins rounds 9-10-11 and knocks this clown down. Johnson is wiping his LEFT glove. The tooth story comes from JOHNSON. Ketchel got careless after the knock down and got caught. Johnson is over rated. Could you see Marvin Hagler knocking down Ali? Not.
bassstop 4 years ago
have it your way. but bob foster did what no heavyweight did to ali---he cut him, and gave him a good fight right up to the end. same with louis/conn. ketchel/johnson was billed as an exhibition, ketchel tried to get cute, and paid dearly.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
Check out this story:
w w w dot eastsideboxing dot com/news/bearden2006.php
bassstop 4 years ago
Ketchel weighed 170lbs for this fight. Bob Fitzsimmons was around the same weight in both his fights with Jim Jeffries, where he outboxed and battered him bloody before falling twice to the bigger man. So if in your opinion Johnson is a clown because of one knockdown, what do you make of Jeffries?
helltopo 4 years ago
Fitz was taller than Ketchel, thus he was better at the defensive/stand-offish style of the older fighters. Their relative hitting powers? Well, how do you judge? This is tough for me to judge b/c I think they are both among the greatest ever. Fitz is very over-looked, and that's a shame. A man his weight KO's heavyweights and no modern boxing writer seems to notice.
LorcanFilms 4 years ago
Jeffries #1 All-Time !
jhs1958 4 years ago
I watched the video. Although Sugar is older than dirt, he was not at ringside. Also, this looks like a fight to me with all the people there? Hardly an exhibition.
bassstop 4 years ago
in those days, exhibitions were common, just as common as 'actual' bouts. dempsey used to pack em in for exhibitions, as did joe louis later. lots of white people showed up to watch johnson fight in hopes some whiteboy would get him.
seanpatrickfolster 4 years ago
Johnson is clearly down for a count of five, but anyone can see he was not badly hurt. Johnson was fond of telling tall tales and I do doubt the story that Ketchel had 'crossed' him.
of course by then Ketchel was already dead & could not dispute the story.
helltopo 4 years ago
ketchell obviously had some bad teeth that needed to be pulled.Johnson was his personal dentist that day.
i've heard that ketchell partied alot.he was one rough tough omray though.
bobbyd7085 4 years ago
You dont have to believe me. Why Would I make it up? Its not like Ketchel is a superstar like DiMaggio, Ruth, or Namath. He was a guy I had heard of through this family story. The neat thing was that I had friends that live on his street.
ryan49321 5 years ago
thats a cool story buddy.
but let me tell ya,Ketchel IS a legend. these american sports stars you named are legends in their own backyards.believe it or not but they mean NOTHING to anybody in the rest of the world.Ketchel is a ring immortal.that makes him more than a superstar,and makes your story even cooler than you seem to realise!!!!
cuntyballs07 3 years ago
CuntyB,you're correct:Ketchel is an immortal! I tell boxing fans about the guy who:was the first to regain the mid title;had 49 KOs in 54 wins;fought greats like,Phil Jack O'Brien (KO'ing him twice!),Johnson (knocking him down),fought Langford to a 6 rd. ND AND did all this before he died at 24 years of age.Also,watch this film:Johnson is NOT going easy on Ketchel, folks. He just can't KO him until Ketchel impaled himself on JJ's gloves! Johnson, great, yes, but the best clincher/grabber ever!
LorcanFilms 3 years ago
Who does he need to prove it to? Why don't you prove he's not.
jhs1958 5 years ago
Why don't you get out of my business. (Yes that did not need a question mark because it's a demand.)
bungholebunghole 4 years ago
Well if you want the history. Maurice Clark was an athletic trainer from the Grand Rapids area of Michigan. He trained Stanley Ketchel until the Joe Thomas fight in 1908 and parted ways because Kethchel had started using drugs and didnt want to be associated with it. The street Stanley was born on in Comstock Park on Little Pine Island Lake would be named after him. I dont know what other kind of proof youre looking for? I just know the story.
ryan49321 5 years ago
And ty for the nice story, I believe you now my friend.
bungholebunghole 4 years ago
My Great Grandfather trained Stanley Ketchel.
ryan49321 5 years ago
Where your proof?
bungholebunghole 5 years ago
Word has it, they had agreed for the fight to last for 12 rounds - no knockout. So, Johnson was lazy, not alert. Ketchel pulled a fast one on him.
jhs1958 5 years ago
As much as I admire Johnson...to not see that overhand right coming is surprising, especially since he was the best defensive fighter of that era, by far!
scatman44 5 years ago
I like your video clip and have rated it as awesome. Please view my clip of some 1930's boxing tobacco cards. They include Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey , Joe Louis and many more.
creamofcardstv 5 years ago
well, i admire Ketchell's freak punch power
randomman007 5 years ago
Exactly one year from this fight, Ketchel would be dead after an irate farmer shot him for seducing his daughter!
skullken 5 years ago
Rumor had it that the two fighters had arranged for the fight to go a long time for the benefit of the cameras. When Ketchel broke the agreement by decking Johnson, the champ got pissed off and he knocked Ketchel cold.
Lava1964 5 years ago
Holy crap. Jack Johnson knocked several of Ketchel's teeth out "from the roots" and "wiped some of the teeth off of his gloves" almost killing him in the process.
SmackahoeTribe 5 years ago
wow
sprakenheit 5 years ago
damn
sidewind69 5 years ago