apparently i made some mistakes int he words i used so i replaced some posts, but over all from the top to bottom, my first post is my first response, the second post is my last response, and my third post is my second response
@MisterUnicornSir Pro life is far more cold than that. "Oh, yes you must have the baby even though you were raped and thrown in a ditch to DIE!..and you'll probably be even MORE traumatized because having the baby won't help you to for get the rape...in fact..it will make it worse." Yeah...
@Purpledragon1766 So basically, after she's been raped, you want to make her a killer too? In some sort of a twisted therapy experiment? Like "Hey! I see you got raped there. Go kill your unborn child and call me in the morning!"
Studies show that women who aborted their baby healed emotionally from the rape but never fully recovered from the abortion.
@SuburbiaSurvivor So you want her to live with the painful memory of being raped? And what if she dies from giving birth anyway? You tell her "well, she shouldn't have been raped then!"
Basically, if that woman need the abortion to live and you don't let her...that make YOU the murderer. Yeah.
Making abortion illegal will just kill more women. It'll do more harm than good.
@Purpledragon1766 How does her giving birth to the child equate to her living with the painful memory of being raped? Like I said, you can heal from being a victim. It's much harder to heal from being a killer.
If she's young enough to be raped and if she has proper medical care she'll probably survive.
And no, that's false. Abortion is illegal in Ireland and they have one of the lowest Maternal Mortality Rates in the world.
And no, rape is far more traumatizing than having an abortion will EVER be. Here's the difference: abortion is just ending pregnancy and, if done right, can be very safe and harmless. Rape, on the other hand involves sexual humiliation, pain, trauma and a laundry list of other things. People who are raped can take years to recover from the trauma of the indecent. Not the same can be said about abortion..so sadly for you..your argument is flawed.
@Purpledragon1766 Hmm, true. Though in a sense she has killed, though indirectly.
Also, your statement is arbitrary. Abortion is killing a human being, which can incite as much guilt, grief, and pain as rape. It depends on the person. There are documented cases of PAS but it is not exhibited by all women who have experienced abortion (one explanation is that symptoms are suppressed for years). Also, abortion can be even more dangerous for the women's health then her carrying the pregnancy.
@SuburbiaSurvivor Yes, but not as many women feel grief after having an abortion. If anything, they feel relief..and if they DO feel grief..this grief can leave after a number of days...as opposed to the YEARS rape victims take to recover.
"Abortion can be more dangerous for a woman's health"? Tell that to a woman who has an ectopic pregnancy. A baby that grows in the Fallopian tube can cause her great pain and even KILL her if she's denied an abortion.
@Purpledragon1766 Once again, that statement is arbitrary. Some women feel relief, some experience PAS that can last for years.
200 women die every year from botched abortions. I'd say abortions carry their risks, wouldn't you? And ectopic pregnancies are extremely rare. However, I think abortion is justified in that case.
@SuburbiaSurvivor By "botched abortion" do you mean in a back alley with a coat hanger? Because if that's the case then you're making abortions sound a lot more dangerous than they need to be. Like I said in a previous comment, abortions done medically, can be very safe and harmless. Also, women can take an abortion pill (if the morning after pill doesn't work) and the baby can be safely aborted with no medical procedure needed.
@Purpledragon1766 No, I mean botched "safe and harmless" abortions done at abortion clinics.
The nature of PAS makes it hard to recognize as a legitimate mental affliction. The APA hasn't disproved the existence of PAS, they've just announced that they don't recognize it since there isn't enough conclusive evidence that it exists due to lack of substantial research.
But even then, that isn't my main argument. My main argument is that two wrongs do not make a right in the case of rape.
@SuburbiaSurvivor Abortions done at clinics ARE safe and harmless. And didn't I mention the abortion pill already..that requires NO medical treatment?
And the APA doesn't recognize it because it's NOT AN ACTUAL CONDITION. "PAS" is just another political tactic to sway people's opinion.
And you're sick to want to make a victim of rape go through the pain of having the child. The pregnancy will only make her scars worse..It's already hard enough for her to heal. It's called trauma.
@Purpledragon1766 Sure they are! Except for all the ones that got botched! And I wasn't talking about the abortion pill.
No, they don't recognize it because they haven't found concrete evidence that it exists (In case you're not aware, it took a long time for the APA to recognize Post Trauma Stress Disorder because it takes a lot of money to fund research for pyschological disorders)
And the pain of childbirth only lasts a few hours as opposed to a child never having the chance to live at all.
@SuburbiaSurvivor Rape victims can take years to recover..as opposed to women with supposed "PAS" who'll probably get over it in a couple of days. You have to learn what sounds worse..."PAS" (that only exists to be political, mind you) or very painful, VERY REAL rape?
@Purpledragon1766 Not true, recovery varies from person to person. Just as PAS varies from person to person. Some people get over PAS extremely quickly. Others suffer from it for years and years. It's arbitrary and you can't make generalizations about the entire experience since everyone is different.
@Purpledragon1766 Wait, are you really going to an abortion clinic? Ah, dude :/
If you're really going to get an abortion why not let the baby live and give it up for adoption? There are plenty of couples who would love your baby, and you would get to know that you had given your child life :D
@Purpledragon1766 Well honestly, I don't care about calling names, I'd just rather you not get an abortion. Like I know that by law it is your right and everything, but I personally think you shouldn't. You know, let it live and give it up for adoption. I mean, I know that as a username on Youtube you probably won't listen to me. I mean, wouldn't you be happier knowing that you had given your kid a life? Sure, maybe the condom broke but maybe good could come out of it...
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: I'd just rather you not get an abortion. it is your right but I personally think you shouldn't. let it live and give it up for adoption. I mean, wouldn't you be happier knowing that you had given your kid a life?
~~~~~~~~~~ LOLOL, we all know whose happiness you are talking about here. Im posting your unbelievable words in the CS forum ( where the eudcated adults debate) for all to see. This is the most amazing piece of self centered work I have ever seen.
@Purpledragon1766 I think abortion is wrong and I'll forever oppose it but I don't condemn you. I just hope you let your child live. And if you don't, well, that's sad to me but I can't condemn you. I hope you let it live though.
I hope your ass is living the life that I think is right for ME, because Im more special than you are. Im smarter than you and I KNOW what you should do to make ME happy.
@SuburbiaSurvivor And you know...I'm only for choice to a certain extent. After a number of months in the womb I don't think abortion should be done. (just telling you to be fair to myself)
In the first few months the fetus is totally dependent on the mother ( and I'm talking 100%. Even a newborn infant is less dependent than it) in the first..um three or four months...I say, abortion is okay...anything after that...no.
@SuburbiaSurvivor becasue there are way too many people in the world, does the number 7 billion mean anything to you, the only other species or kinds of species with numbers close to that are insects, even if that wasn't the case, the subject of whether an unborn baby has life or not is really debatable. you could say it has, but you could also it doesn't. cause like what my friend purple dragon said, it depends on the amount of time in the womb
@483091 No, overpopulation is a myth. And no, the scientific community all but unanimously agrees that a fetus is alive, has a life, and is a human being. It's debatable whether it's an individual or not, but not whether it's a human being or not. By all biological standards, a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.
that statement obviously shows you never took an A.P environmental science class. no matter what species, there is always a population limit, we humans just didn't hit it yet. about your comment on my friend, how you rather she not get an abortion, you really have no right to comment as its really her body. and by defintion, a zygote, embryo, and fetus is not actually a human being, but the subset of the human form. just like how a tadpole is not a frog, but will turn into one
@483091 Well then, since you have taken A.P. environmental science, prove to me that overpopulation is a legitimate problem. As far as my comment, I do have a right, it's called freedom of speech. Similarly, I wasn't expressing hatred or malice, simply personal opinion. And you can not be a subset of the human form without being a human being. And sure, a tadpole isn't a frog, because a tadpole is a word for a certain developmental stage, but they are both of the same species.
@483091 cont. with more wolves, the population of deers will lower, this cycle will continue with over all, both species never going past a certain number. and its not really a personal opinion, its more like a request, freedom of speach allows you to voice your opinions. not force them onto others. meaning you can say you are pro life, but you can't really shut the other person up because they disagree with you. cont
as for the acorn and oak example, its really invalid as you used an organism not even in the same category as an oak tree is a plant. i use organisms that doesn't require photosynthesis to survive
@SuburbiaSurvivor ok, using another species as an example, wolves and deers, the number of each species varies indirectly to each other, if there is a high number of wolves, there will be a low number of deers, but because of competition, the number of wolves will starve and start to die off, with less wolves to worry about, the population of deers will grow, with more deer, tehre is more food for the wolves and thus the population of wolves will grow again cont.
@483091 Well that's a very nice example, my friend, but I asked you to prove that overpopulation isn't a myth, and if it really isn't a myth, is it really a problem? Or is it simply a distraction from real problems in the world? Such as greed, war, and famine.
@SuburbiaSurvivorhonestly, if i were to post my answer in this little box, i would run out of room due to lack of characters, so i will send it to you through a personal message
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: the scientific community all but unanimously agrees that a fetus is alive, has a life, and is a human being.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOLOL, what??? Human is a scientific term...human BEING is ONLY a legal term, nothing scientific about it . I see youre still lying your ass off and its still getting you nowhere.
@Sueezee1 "Def of human being: an indivuidual with rights"
False. Definition of a human being "A member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child"-The American Heritage Dictionary.
Rights come with personhood, which varies by law. For example, before slavery was abolished, black people were not persons. After it was abolished, they were persons. A person is a legal term whereas human being is a biological term. You can't argue that a fetus is biologically non-human.
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: There are plenty of couples who would love your baby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You mean like there is no over population?? 250,000 kids up for adoption in the US alone today and youre demading a stranger have MORE babies for YOUR birthing satisfaction? Your a freak, sub!!
@Sueezee1 "You mean like there is no over population"
Yes, there is no overpopulation. Also, no. I'm not demanding that stranger have more babies for my birthing satisfaction (What on earth? Birthing satisfaction? You must've made that one up on the spot, huh?). I'm demanding that babies that are conceived be allowed to live. Also, where are you getting your statistics? There are currently only 3,000 babies up for adoption and they are quickly adopted.
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: Some people get over PAS extremely quickly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Youre a probirth LIAR, there is no such thing. the "postabortion traumatic stress syndrome" that YOU SPEW is NOT RECOGNIZED by either the American Psychological Association (APA) or the American Psychiatric Association.
@Sueezee1 "NOT RECOGNIZED by either the American Psychological Association (APA) or the American Psychiatric Association."
Your point? It was years before the APA's recognized PTS as a legitimate psychological affliction either. There are conflicting studies, but none that prove it does not exist.
LOLOL...Guilt is a is PSYCHOLOGICAL state in which one experiences emotional conflict at having done something!! YOU perpetuate your OWN feeleings. . Guilt is not an indicator you have done something wrong, only that you have DECIDED to make it worng in your mind. Guilt dosent come from abortion. It comes from YOUR head and YOUR thoughts
~~~~~~~~~~ My point IS, you NON reading fool, that there is NO PTS. Women with high levels of mood disturbance PRIOR to abortion are at highest risk of post-abortal mood disorder.Studies show the relationships of optimism, perceptions of personal control, and high self-esteem were all related to better postabortion adjustment, even many yeras after the fact.
~~~~~~~ My point iS, you non reading fool...Psychologically speaking, guilt and its effects are self-indulgence. Women may regret having an abortion... but that does not mean they have made the wrong decision. Pro-life considerations mainly argue from the emotional perspective rather than the logical one.
~~~~ Its that there is NO PTS... The APA concluded that abortion does not lead to increased mental health problems.Some proposed negative psychological effects of abortion have been referred to by anti-abortion advocates as a separate condition called "post-abortion syndrome." However, the existence of "post-abortion syndrome" is not recognized by any medical or psychological organization. FLOUNDER YOU UGLY FISH
Ummm, actually no. Post-Traumatic-Stress Syndrome is real. Go look it up. Post-Abortion-Stress Syndrome is when a woman feels regret etc. from her abortion. Not all women get it. But many do.
@Sueezee1 "The APA concluded that abortion does not lead to increased mental health problems"
No, they did not conclude that abortion does not lead to increased mental health problems. They concluded that there is no casual relationship between the to. Let me translate: Abortion doesn't always result in PAS, but it can and has. I can give you accounts of PAS if you are in such denial of its existence.
@SuburbiaSurvivor To prove my point further, there is no scientific evidence of a causal relationship between abortion and poor mental health. Pre-existing factors in a woman's life, such as emotional attachment to the pregnancy, lack of social support, pre-existing psychiatric illness, and conservative views on abortion increase the likelihood of experiencing negative feelings after an abortion.
So in other words...it's really based on how and where you were raised. (raised pro-life..)
@Purpledragon1766 Hahaha, your beginning sentence was a total rip from Wikipedia ;)
Like I said, it's inconclusive. If you read that article further it states that there are studies that suggest PSA is a legitimate condition and others that suggest that it is not. More research needs to be done on the matter.
@SuburbiaSurvivor And again, the majority of women with PAS is very slim. There aren't many women ready to blow their brains out 'cause they had an abortion...and if they did have PAS they can get over it in a matter of days. Also the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association do not recognize PAS as an actual diagnosis or condition.
Is this your only argument? I'm getting rather tiresome of the same crap you're feeding me.
@SuburbiaSurvivor (continued) Even if she went along with the pregnancy, the baby would still die...so in cases like that it's best just to have the abortion.
I love that that the anti abortionists are generally the same people who promote abstinence programs in schools. Yet fail to see that more safe sex means less unwanted pregnancy.
@UncleRoofie God Hates Abortion, and we the Theist along with some of our atheist allies are doing our best to end this monstrosity that plagues this world.
Why don't you people do something about the real murder of children, start with pedophiles, move to mothers who nuke or drown their children. I know if I was one of those kids I would have wished to never be born. Sometimes it's better for the parent to take the sin of abortion then to give that child such a miserable life. If you can't understand that, maybe you just haven't really looked at he ugly in this world.
@Jordoom777 Last statics was 1,502 child murders, 3.3 million reports of abuse on 6 million children, with over over 491,720 registered sex offenders who are averaged to molest between 100-200 victims each in their lifetime, •80,000 to 100,000 of the above offenders are missing. If you are into triage, I think I have your numbers beat. Yet you are more concerned that 1.3 million children will not be abused in a lifetime.
@Lady0Pamela Interesting numbers. It still doesn't change anything though. First, you're erroneously assuming that everyone who aborts is a child abuser (or, most likely, the spouse/girlfriend of one.) Also, you bring up a false dilemma; it's like saying "Don't be against war when there is still slavery in the world." One can simultaneously decry multiple forms of evil.
@Jordoom777 Amazing, first you claim to be doing triage, as kids killed are only under 1,500 but abortion is 1.3 million a year, so I show you larger numbers of kids walking around today who are forever changed, and will not have a "normal" life, a problem that maybe if we could do more about, that 1.3million abortions might go down some, and you say that it's a false dilemma. What do you actually do to help any of the kids, preborn or preschool? Besides your comments on youtube?
@Lady0Pamela You take for granted that there is such thing as a "normal" life. What does that even mean? You are all too eager to assume what is best for millions of unborn people (I wonder, pray tell, how you would respond if someone bigger, stronger, richer, etc. than you decided that your life wasn't all that great, either, and that you would better off dead?) What do abortion and child abuse have to do with each other (other than they both harm children.) I don't see any consistency.
@Jordoom777 There is a level of normal a child deserves, not to sexually abused, tortured, abused, etc. No you are to eager to assume that living life would be best for 1.3 million unwanted fetus', you know better then the women who would have brought them into the world. That person you describe, isn't my biological anything, and I am already here, not a fetus. Easy one is a real crime, one is under punished, one is a real concern we should all have. What does abortion have to do with you? cont
@Lady0Pamela Opposing abortion isn't condoning child abuse. How can you even draw that connection? You also didn't answer my earlier response to that argument, IE, not every child aborted would have been born into a home with an abuser (and even if they were, I wouldn't accept that as an acceptable excuse for abortion.) Ultimately, only one question matters. Is the fetus human? If not, no justification for abortion is necessary. If yes, no justification for abortion is possible.
@Jordoom777 First you never asked me a question to answer, you just accused me of erroneously believing that aborted fetus would be abused. There is no such thing as needing to answer a response or statement, I actually asked you a question. You may not accept anything about abortion, no one is asking you to. We are just merely pointing out you are not the be all end all in the world. Your belief isn't anything, and you aren't going to care for all the unwanted children in the world. cont
@Jordoom777 As of September 30, 2009, there were an estimated 423,773 children in foster care. Yet you want to put more in there, without fixing it first? 143,000,0002 Orphans in the world today spend an average of 10 years in an orphanage or foster home. Approximately 250,000 children are adopted annually, but…Every YEAR 14,050,000 children still grow up as orphans and AGE OUT of the system never having a family.
@Lady0Pamela You see abortion as a "cure" for these issues (like if a cure for Grandma's migraine was to chop her head off.) I see abortion as a contributing part of the sick system of morals and values that rips families apart and destroys children in the womb and devalues everyone based only on what they can produce, economically. I have what is called a "Consistent Life Ethic." You see abortion as a solution, I see it, at best, as a band-aid solution, and at worse, part of the problem.
@Jordoom777 I don't see abortion as a cure, or a solution. I see a problem to large to fix and it's gushing blood, maybe for now till we can fix it, it needs a band-aid. I would never cut grandma's head of because of a headache, that is just retarded. Families are ripped apart daily without abortion being the reason. Sorry you feel devalued for not producing more. We also offer the band-aid of therapy to get you through.
@Lady0Pamela Why the smarmy, ad hominem remarks? I am being very frank and forward. Cut the snark and dialogue like an adult. I'm glad you admit abortion is a problem, on that we have some common ground. I think you're a bit naive though to wait for the world to be a utopia before trying to fight abortion. Under your criteria, we'll be waiting forever. Injustices wont naturally stop themselves, it is up to engaged citizens to do it.
@Jordoom777 Yeah it wasn't smarmy when you said you should have been aborted, or ridiculous when you suggested cutting grandma's head off for a headache, very straight forward and frank. Remember putting yourself on a pedestool can be a far drop. You cut the snark and maybe we can have a dialogue, but I really don't see it happening. See I am niave, that isn't ad hominem at all. You may not understand that sometimes fixing the reasons can fix the problem, but you aren't doing much either.
@Jordoom777 "Injustices wont naturally stop themselves, it is up to engaged citizens to do it." Yes, it is up to people to make the most responsible decisions they are able to, which is why abortions are a legal right, and readily available. Injustices WONT stop themselves, I agree, but why say that, then turn around and say you want millions more unwanted kids produced with nowhere to go, no one to love them? Think it through a bit more maybe.
@Jordoom777 Why won't you answer what you do to help kids besides youtube comments? Because you don't do anything, thus you are of no consequence to the issue. Good day.
@Lady0Pamela For some of us, talking about these issues is all we can do at this point. I'm a 21-year-old Politics student who has spent the summer working in a farmer's field for about $25 a day. Oh, wait, that kinda sounds like a bummed out summer... Perhaps I should have just been aborted?
@Jordoom777 Why is youtube comments all you can do? Because you are a student who spends their summers working on a farm? Seriously a poltitics student and the best job you can get makes you $500 a month, very sad, but not sad enough you should have been aborted, your mother clearly wanted you, sorry you are so afraid you could have been aborted, but you weren't, relax. Life is a crap shoot.
@Lady0Pamela It is very sad. I had to move back in with my old man for the summer. However, I see hardship and I say "Ok, tighten that belt and trudge on." You see hardship and start lobbing off heads (metaphorically) because for you, a hard life isn't a life worth living. Yet, o suffer is often the lot of humanity. So we deal with it. I don't only post on YouTube, I blog an have been published in local papers. I was an editor for my campus paper, and brought up life issues there.
@Jordoom777 Your old man, is that your dad or your boyfriend? So you don't work on a "farmer's farm"lol. Geesh most would help out family for free so you get your allowance not a paycheck..got it. Ah good to know you do other then just whining on youtube, it's not much but it's something. Still I would recommend you watch a movie "If these walls could talk" both 1 and 2 are very educational.
@Lady0Pamela Once again, your maturity undermines your already weak arguments. I was being nice and honest, you've got nothing to offer but facetiousness. Good day, clearly this isn't a solemn and important issue to you. Though I will clear up, I live in a rural town (with my father), and then commute further into the boonies to work on a farm. Cheerio.
@Jordoom777 You have not been nice or honest. I have not offered up facetiousness, I have offered up real life scenarios that you refuse to understand or believe. You can pretend to be on higher ground if that makes you feel better, but you are too young to know what is going on out here. The only thing solemn and important here, is you are not everyone, and everyone is not you. You are not the be all end all of this world.
@jojoneli76 No abortion is the termination of a fetus especially if the woman does it before 10 weeks. If we don't fix what is happening to children who are already here we can't stop abortion. Fix the problems and you will have your solution. You guys are always preborn your cool, preschool your screwed.
Abortion can't be undone? Since when can't a woman choose to have a child after an abortion? LOL! Abortion isn't a choice, it's a medical procedure and a right. You can't control what someone else does with their body. Period. The Constitution protects her choice, so there is no debate. End of story. PERIOD.
@CatholicCreed You are as ignorant as they come. A person is born, has a name, breaths oxygen. You can't kill "someone" if they are not even breathing for f*cks sake. Abortion is a medical procedure, and none of your business. So obey the law and keep your twisted delusional moral crap to yourself. I don't know where you get the idea that the constituon somehow protects your absurd notion that a lump of cells is "life" but you are clearly a clueless MORON!!
@14598175 is you think a fetus is a "lump of cells" then you are the MORON and it takes away your credibility. A fetus is alive you moron. It has a beating heart and a working brain, working organs, hands, feet, eyes, etc. Everything you have. It's a human and its alive and a LIFE. If you don't believe this which is not an opinion but a fact then you are lacking in brain cells. "A person is born"?? Really. So a fetus magically transform into a person once it's outside the womb but
@jojoneli76 A fetus does not begin to have a human brain until at least week 26, when the cerebral cortex begins to develop. At week 5, it develops brain vesicles which are sacs of fluid that will develop into primitive structures such as the thalamus and midbrain, often referred to as the "lizard brain" because of their similarity to brains of the lower animals. There is no evidence that the brain functions prior to week 34. The fetus is sedated by naturally occurring chemicals in the womb.
@14598175 inside the womb it's not a person. So what is it? Let me see a person by defiinition is a human being. A human fetus has a HUMAN heart, HUMAN brain, HUMAN organs, HUMAN limbs, created by human sperm and eggs.......guess what, It's HUMAN so it's a person. By the way, most expectant parents name their baby when it is still in the womb so your a person "has a name" argument proves our side.
Webster's 11th edition online defines "human being" as "human(n)", and then defines "human(n)" as "a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man; broadly : hominid". It then defines "man" as : a "bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) that is anatomically related to the great apes but distinguished especially by notable development of the brain with a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning" or "person".
In what way does the fetus display personhood or abstract reason?
@pirbird14 You use the word person. In fact "person" means individual human being. A fetus displays personhood by its DNA alone. There are two explicitly individual human beings involved directly in the period of pregnancy. Both are party to Human Rights by virtue of their humanity. The way pro-abortion scholars have denigrated the experience of motherhood to tenancy between mother and child is such a low blow to a beautiful natural wonder. Motherhood carries our species into another generation
@SpankinMusic I gave you a definition of person from Webster and asked you in what way the fetus meets that definition. Instead of answering that, you just made up your own definition. If, according to you, DNA equates to person, then a hydatdiform mole is a person. A human chimera is two persons in one body. Human twins are one person in two bodies. No one is denigrating motherhood. We are talking about unwanted pregnancies. Motherhood takes place after birth.
@SpankinMusic "Mere possession of the genetic material for a future human being does not make a human being. ..A purely genetic description of the human species does not describe a human being. A human being represents a whole other level of organization, as distinct from a simple embryo as an embryo is distinct from an egg and sperm. It is the dynamics between genes and environment that make a human being. .." -Michael S. Gazzaniga, Ph.D.
@SuburbiaSurvivor In what way is your question relevant? The definition specifies *capacity* for abstract reason, not the actual use of abstract reason. The capacity for abstract reason begins to develop when the cerebral cortex has sufficiently developed. This organ does not even begin to develop until week 26 in the fetal stage. Most abortions happen before week 12.
@pirbird14 hey Einstein I was responding to 14598175's comment some comments back where he/she said and I quote "A person is born, has a NAME, breaths oxygen. " I was merely saying that this is not true and many babies are already named from the very beginning as soon as the pregnancy is confirmed. I was no where saying that naming things makes it human.
@jojoneli76 You also said, " By the way, most expectant parents name their baby when it is still in the womb so your a person "has a name" argument proves our side."
The fact that some parents name their fetus does not prove that the fetus is a person.
@pirbird14 Of course not. I never said that. Again, i was responding to what 1498175 said and the fact that he used the "a person has name" argument. I was merely stating the fact that many expectant mothers/fathers already name their fetus so if a person has a name according to him, then a fetus is a person according to him.
@14598175 No guess what it is a medical procedure which kills people and it is LSO UNBCOBSTITUTIONAL TO KILL PEOPLE AND THE WOMEN SHAREAS THE BODY WITH THE CHILD SO THE CHILD HAS AN EQUAL SAY, ALSO GETTING A CHILD LATER MEANS A DIFFERENT CHILD THE ONE CHILD IS STILL DEAD!!!!!
@Breana9109 She has the hanger around her neck, because when abortion was illegal that is what was used on women in back alleys. You can't stop abortion, even if you make it illegal, you will just send it back to the dark alleys.
@southernwolf93 but it's all fine and dandy if a woman spreads her legs, get's pregnant twice by two different guys if she has them right? If she accepts her punishment and makes the best of her situation?
Are you kidding me? It's not because children and babies are cute, it's because they're precious--you aren't forced to live with them---if you can't raise them, there are many adoptive parents-in-waiting who would love that child as their own, doting and caring about them with every fiber of their being.
@bluepuppyboy they may be precious in YOUR opinion, but i'm not fucking keeping one of those around, and i'm sure as hell not wasting 9 months putting my body and social life through hell to make one of those little shits. you like them so much, go adopt some!
as a matter of fact, I AM adopting one--I don't consider babies or children to be "little shits" as you call them--Someone must have been pretty mean to you for you to feel this way...
@bluepuppyboy good that you're adopting, but if you base your opinions on whether or not people were mean to you, you must be extremely stupid or at least mentally unstable. most of us don't form our opinions that way. perhaps you know this and are just having a pathetic attempt at shaming me for having a different opinion than you. in that case, let me make this clear: i am under NO obligation to like (or bear) children.
@bluepuppyboy you're the one insulting someone who disagrees with you. i'm not nasty because i don't like something, but am to people who deserve it. like, you know, logically retarded pro-lifers on youtube who are too stupid to get their comments right the first time and those who think something's wrong with you if you don't like something they do. none of your points even make any sense. my mother bore me-so what? she chose to do that. now go abort yourself you dumb twat. i'm done with you.
@froggymicwop This explains everything. You are chilfree child hater so of course you are FOR the murder of babies. Your opinions are biased because you hate children.
@jojoneli76 everyone's opinion is biased. if you like children, it biases you. if you are against sex, it biases you. it doesn't matter though, because everyone has bias and a right to their own opinion as long as they don't go legislating others' actions.
It is only if human life is respected from conception to death that the ethics of peace is also possible and credible," concluded the Pope. "It is only then that non-violence can express itself in every direction; only then that we truly welcome creation, and only then that we can arrive at true justice." Pope Benedict XVI
The most Dangerous Place in the world is not Iraq or any other military zone, but a Mother's Womb - 300 Million Dead World Wide so far.
It is only if human life is respected from conception to death that the ethics of peace is also possible and credible," concluded the Pope. "It is only then that non-violence can express itself in every direction; only then that we truly welcome creation, and only then that we can arrive at true justice." Pope Benedict XVI
The most Dangerous Place in the world is not Iraq or any other military zone, but a Mother's Womb - 300 Million Dead World Wide so far.
@teton99 you are certainly right, in each year alone there are over 43 million natural miscarriages worldwide. The mother's womb seems to be quite hostile, what do you intend to do about it?
either side, pro life or pro choice continuously arguing over a hopeless cause. Nip the problem at the bud, make birth control more affordable, educate young women and men about abortion..its not a pretty thing..and then educate them on how to never have to make that decision. I don't agree with abortion unless its life or death for the mother. But come on...arguing about it isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
@ProudMommy705 I never agree with abortion, but there is a safer way in the case of health of the mother, and it does not involve ripping someone into tinny peaces.
I think the only reason an abortion should be made available is if a woman's life is at risk if they were to continue carrying a child. Pregnancy caused by rape can be avoided by the morning after pill..I'm not saying this to be insensitive to rape victims in any way. But why increase emotional and physical scarring with abortion when a simple pill can be taken to stop fertilization before it happens? I also think that MORE should be put into education/availability of BIRTH CONTROL instead of...
@iwantwatermellon i get 1 and 2 but 3.... your right and there is also some couples that cant have babies , and it kills them .. let them have the miracle of life!
I myself was adopted and deeply loved , it can do WONDERS for a child as well as the parent..
apparently i made some mistakes int he words i used so i replaced some posts, but over all from the top to bottom, my first post is my first response, the second post is my last response, and my third post is my second response
483091 3 months ago
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people should not have the choice to to choose the fate of another life.
xPray2die2dayx 3 months ago
Pro-Choice is one of THE MOST cold-hearted things i've ever heard of.
MisterUnicornSir 3 months ago
@MisterUnicornSir Pro life is far more cold than that. "Oh, yes you must have the baby even though you were raped and thrown in a ditch to DIE!..and you'll probably be even MORE traumatized because having the baby won't help you to for get the rape...in fact..it will make it worse." Yeah...
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 So basically, after she's been raped, you want to make her a killer too? In some sort of a twisted therapy experiment? Like "Hey! I see you got raped there. Go kill your unborn child and call me in the morning!"
Studies show that women who aborted their baby healed emotionally from the rape but never fully recovered from the abortion.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor So you want her to live with the painful memory of being raped? And what if she dies from giving birth anyway? You tell her "well, she shouldn't have been raped then!"
Basically, if that woman need the abortion to live and you don't let her...that make YOU the murderer. Yeah.
Making abortion illegal will just kill more women. It'll do more harm than good.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 How does her giving birth to the child equate to her living with the painful memory of being raped? Like I said, you can heal from being a victim. It's much harder to heal from being a killer.
If she's young enough to be raped and if she has proper medical care she'll probably survive.
And no, that's false. Abortion is illegal in Ireland and they have one of the lowest Maternal Mortality Rates in the world.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor She's not a killer, though.
And no, rape is far more traumatizing than having an abortion will EVER be. Here's the difference: abortion is just ending pregnancy and, if done right, can be very safe and harmless. Rape, on the other hand involves sexual humiliation, pain, trauma and a laundry list of other things. People who are raped can take years to recover from the trauma of the indecent. Not the same can be said about abortion..so sadly for you..your argument is flawed.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Hmm, true. Though in a sense she has killed, though indirectly.
Also, your statement is arbitrary. Abortion is killing a human being, which can incite as much guilt, grief, and pain as rape. It depends on the person. There are documented cases of PAS but it is not exhibited by all women who have experienced abortion (one explanation is that symptoms are suppressed for years). Also, abortion can be even more dangerous for the women's health then her carrying the pregnancy.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor Yes, but not as many women feel grief after having an abortion. If anything, they feel relief..and if they DO feel grief..this grief can leave after a number of days...as opposed to the YEARS rape victims take to recover.
"Abortion can be more dangerous for a woman's health"? Tell that to a woman who has an ectopic pregnancy. A baby that grows in the Fallopian tube can cause her great pain and even KILL her if she's denied an abortion.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Once again, that statement is arbitrary. Some women feel relief, some experience PAS that can last for years.
200 women die every year from botched abortions. I'd say abortions carry their risks, wouldn't you? And ectopic pregnancies are extremely rare. However, I think abortion is justified in that case.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor By "botched abortion" do you mean in a back alley with a coat hanger? Because if that's the case then you're making abortions sound a lot more dangerous than they need to be. Like I said in a previous comment, abortions done medically, can be very safe and harmless. Also, women can take an abortion pill (if the morning after pill doesn't work) and the baby can be safely aborted with no medical procedure needed.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 No, I mean botched "safe and harmless" abortions done at abortion clinics.
The nature of PAS makes it hard to recognize as a legitimate mental affliction. The APA hasn't disproved the existence of PAS, they've just announced that they don't recognize it since there isn't enough conclusive evidence that it exists due to lack of substantial research.
But even then, that isn't my main argument. My main argument is that two wrongs do not make a right in the case of rape.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor Abortions done at clinics ARE safe and harmless. And didn't I mention the abortion pill already..that requires NO medical treatment?
And the APA doesn't recognize it because it's NOT AN ACTUAL CONDITION. "PAS" is just another political tactic to sway people's opinion.
And you're sick to want to make a victim of rape go through the pain of having the child. The pregnancy will only make her scars worse..It's already hard enough for her to heal. It's called trauma.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Sure they are! Except for all the ones that got botched! And I wasn't talking about the abortion pill.
No, they don't recognize it because they haven't found concrete evidence that it exists (In case you're not aware, it took a long time for the APA to recognize Post Trauma Stress Disorder because it takes a lot of money to fund research for pyschological disorders)
And the pain of childbirth only lasts a few hours as opposed to a child never having the chance to live at all.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor Rape victims can take years to recover..as opposed to women with supposed "PAS" who'll probably get over it in a couple of days. You have to learn what sounds worse..."PAS" (that only exists to be political, mind you) or very painful, VERY REAL rape?
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Not true, recovery varies from person to person. Just as PAS varies from person to person. Some people get over PAS extremely quickly. Others suffer from it for years and years. It's arbitrary and you can't make generalizations about the entire experience since everyone is different.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor Whatever.
I need to get some sleep before I go to the abortion clinic tomorrow. It's sad that you'll never know the true benefits to having abortions legal.
And you know..if you hate abortions so much..then don't get one. That's why (EXACTLY why) they call it pro CHOICE.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Wait, are you really going to an abortion clinic? Ah, dude :/
If you're really going to get an abortion why not let the baby live and give it up for adoption? There are plenty of couples who would love your baby, and you would get to know that you had given your child life :D
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor No. You see, it's my choice to have an abortion...and I'd rather not have a child now.
And don't tell me how I'm irresponsible and I shouldn't had sex..I'm just gonna say this now...the condom broke.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Well honestly, I don't care about calling names, I'd just rather you not get an abortion. Like I know that by law it is your right and everything, but I personally think you shouldn't. You know, let it live and give it up for adoption. I mean, I know that as a username on Youtube you probably won't listen to me. I mean, wouldn't you be happier knowing that you had given your kid a life? Sure, maybe the condom broke but maybe good could come out of it...
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: I'd just rather you not get an abortion. it is your right but I personally think you shouldn't. let it live and give it up for adoption. I mean, wouldn't you be happier knowing that you had given your kid a life?
~~~~~~~~~~ LOLOL, we all know whose happiness you are talking about here. Im posting your unbelievable words in the CS forum ( where the eudcated adults debate) for all to see. This is the most amazing piece of self centered work I have ever seen.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "This is the most amazing piece of self centered work I have ever seen"
How is desiring that an unborn child be given the right to live self-centered? How could I possibly profit from that?
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 I think abortion is wrong and I'll forever oppose it but I don't condemn you. I just hope you let your child live. And if you don't, well, that's sad to me but I can't condemn you. I hope you let it live though.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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@SuburbiaSurvivor says: I just hope you let your child live.
~~~~~~~~~~
I hope your ass is living the life that I think is right for ME, because Im more special than you are. Im smarter than you and I KNOW what you should do to make ME happy.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor And you know...I'm only for choice to a certain extent. After a number of months in the womb I don't think abortion should be done. (just telling you to be fair to myself)
In the first few months the fetus is totally dependent on the mother ( and I'm talking 100%. Even a newborn infant is less dependent than it) in the first..um three or four months...I say, abortion is okay...anything after that...no.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 says: three or four months...I say, abortion is okay...anything after that...no.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You say no for whom? You or me? Who are you speaking for?
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 No abortion after three or four months of pregnancy.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
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@Purpledragon1766 says: No abortion after three or four months of pregnancy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The question WAS "for whom, me or you"?
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor becasue there are way too many people in the world, does the number 7 billion mean anything to you, the only other species or kinds of species with numbers close to that are insects, even if that wasn't the case, the subject of whether an unborn baby has life or not is really debatable. you could say it has, but you could also it doesn't. cause like what my friend purple dragon said, it depends on the amount of time in the womb
483091 3 months ago
@483091 No, overpopulation is a myth. And no, the scientific community all but unanimously agrees that a fetus is alive, has a life, and is a human being. It's debatable whether it's an individual or not, but not whether it's a human being or not. By all biological standards, a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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483091 3 months ago
that statement obviously shows you never took an A.P environmental science class. no matter what species, there is always a population limit, we humans just didn't hit it yet. about your comment on my friend, how you rather she not get an abortion, you really have no right to comment as its really her body. and by defintion, a zygote, embryo, and fetus is not actually a human being, but the subset of the human form. just like how a tadpole is not a frog, but will turn into one
483091 3 months ago
@483091 Well then, since you have taken A.P. environmental science, prove to me that overpopulation is a legitimate problem. As far as my comment, I do have a right, it's called freedom of speech. Similarly, I wasn't expressing hatred or malice, simply personal opinion. And you can not be a subset of the human form without being a human being. And sure, a tadpole isn't a frog, because a tadpole is a word for a certain developmental stage, but they are both of the same species.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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483091 3 months ago
@483091 cont. with more wolves, the population of deers will lower, this cycle will continue with over all, both species never going past a certain number. and its not really a personal opinion, its more like a request, freedom of speach allows you to voice your opinions. not force them onto others. meaning you can say you are pro life, but you can't really shut the other person up because they disagree with you. cont
483091 3 months ago
as for the acorn and oak example, its really invalid as you used an organism not even in the same category as an oak tree is a plant. i use organisms that doesn't require photosynthesis to survive
483091 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor ok, using another species as an example, wolves and deers, the number of each species varies indirectly to each other, if there is a high number of wolves, there will be a low number of deers, but because of competition, the number of wolves will starve and start to die off, with less wolves to worry about, the population of deers will grow, with more deer, tehre is more food for the wolves and thus the population of wolves will grow again cont.
483091 3 months ago
@483091 Well that's a very nice example, my friend, but I asked you to prove that overpopulation isn't a myth, and if it really isn't a myth, is it really a problem? Or is it simply a distraction from real problems in the world? Such as greed, war, and famine.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivorhonestly, if i were to post my answer in this little box, i would run out of room due to lack of characters, so i will send it to you through a personal message
483091 3 months ago
@483091 Go ahead.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: ut I asked you to prove that overpopulation isn't a myth,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Prove it is.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
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@Sueezee1 I'm glad you replied :D
"Prove it is"
You sure? I will. But I've already done it like 4 times today and it requires ever so much typing...
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@483091 For example: is an acorn a tree? No. An acorn is the lowest stage of an Oak plant's development stage. But are they both Oak? Yes.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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@SuburbiaSurvivor says: But are they both Oak?
~~~~~~~~~~
You mean the same species...yes. But, as different as day & night
Sueezee1 3 months ago
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@SuburbiaSurvivor says: the scientific community all but unanimously agrees that a fetus is alive, has a life, and is a human being.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOLOL, what??? Human is a scientific term...human BEING is ONLY a legal term, nothing scientific about it . I see youre still lying your ass off and its still getting you nowhere.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: By all biological standards, a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Def of human being: an indivuidual with rights. Fetuses have NO rights so its not ahuman being.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "Def of human being: an indivuidual with rights"
False. Definition of a human being "A member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child"-The American Heritage Dictionary.
Rights come with personhood, which varies by law. For example, before slavery was abolished, black people were not persons. After it was abolished, they were persons. A person is a legal term whereas human being is a biological term. You can't argue that a fetus is biologically non-human.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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@SuburbiaSurvivor says: the scientific community all but unanimously agrees that a fetus is alive, has a life,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOLol, Do you always think if you credit "science" with somehting that it makes it valid?? Youre wrong.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: There are plenty of couples who would love your baby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You mean like there is no over population?? 250,000 kids up for adoption in the US alone today and youre demading a stranger have MORE babies for YOUR birthing satisfaction? Your a freak, sub!!
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "You mean like there is no over population"
Yes, there is no overpopulation. Also, no. I'm not demanding that stranger have more babies for my birthing satisfaction (What on earth? Birthing satisfaction? You must've made that one up on the spot, huh?). I'm demanding that babies that are conceived be allowed to live. Also, where are you getting your statistics? There are currently only 3,000 babies up for adoption and they are quickly adopted.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: Some people get over PAS extremely quickly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Youre a probirth LIAR, there is no such thing. the "postabortion traumatic stress syndrome" that YOU SPEW is NOT RECOGNIZED by either the American Psychological Association (APA) or the American Psychiatric Association.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "NOT RECOGNIZED by either the American Psychological Association (APA) or the American Psychiatric Association."
Your point? It was years before the APA's recognized PTS as a legitimate psychological affliction either. There are conflicting studies, but none that prove it does not exist.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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@SuburbiaSurvivor says: Your point?
~~~~~~~~~~
LOLOL...Guilt is a is PSYCHOLOGICAL state in which one experiences emotional conflict at having done something!! YOU perpetuate your OWN feeleings. . Guilt is not an indicator you have done something wrong, only that you have DECIDED to make it worng in your mind. Guilt dosent come from abortion. It comes from YOUR head and YOUR thoughts
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: our point?
~~~~~~~~~~ My point IS, you NON reading fool, that there is NO PTS. Women with high levels of mood disturbance PRIOR to abortion are at highest risk of post-abortal mood disorder.Studies show the relationships of optimism, perceptions of personal control, and high self-esteem were all related to better postabortion adjustment, even many yeras after the fact.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: Your point?
~~~~~~~ My point iS, you non reading fool...Psychologically speaking, guilt and its effects are self-indulgence. Women may regret having an abortion... but that does not mean they have made the wrong decision. Pro-life considerations mainly argue from the emotional perspective rather than the logical one.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "Pro-life considerations mainly argue from the emotional perspective rather than the logical one."
Translation: You Pro-Lifers are stupid and we Pro-Choicers are smart.
Let's avoid the middle school dramatics, shall we?
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: Your point?
~~~~ Its that there is NO PTS... The APA concluded that abortion does not lead to increased mental health problems.Some proposed negative psychological effects of abortion have been referred to by anti-abortion advocates as a separate condition called "post-abortion syndrome." However, the existence of "post-abortion syndrome" is not recognized by any medical or psychological organization. FLOUNDER YOU UGLY FISH
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "Its that there is NO PTS"
Ummm, actually no. Post-Traumatic-Stress Syndrome is real. Go look it up. Post-Abortion-Stress Syndrome is when a woman feels regret etc. from her abortion. Not all women get it. But many do.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
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@Sueezee1 "The APA concluded that abortion does not lead to increased mental health problems"
No, they did not conclude that abortion does not lead to increased mental health problems. They concluded that there is no casual relationship between the to. Let me translate: Abortion doesn't always result in PAS, but it can and has. I can give you accounts of PAS if you are in such denial of its existence.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@Sueezee1 "FLOUNDER YOU UGLY FISH"
Hahahaha, that made me laugh :D
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor says: Your point?
~~~~~~~~
LOLOL, You know what the point is...youre just scared of it.
Sueezee1 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor To prove my point further, there is no scientific evidence of a causal relationship between abortion and poor mental health. Pre-existing factors in a woman's life, such as emotional attachment to the pregnancy, lack of social support, pre-existing psychiatric illness, and conservative views on abortion increase the likelihood of experiencing negative feelings after an abortion.
So in other words...it's really based on how and where you were raised. (raised pro-life..)
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@Purpledragon1766 Hahaha, your beginning sentence was a total rip from Wikipedia ;)
Like I said, it's inconclusive. If you read that article further it states that there are studies that suggest PSA is a legitimate condition and others that suggest that it is not. More research needs to be done on the matter.
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor And if you read it FURTHER it states that PAS is a tactic used by pro-life advocates for political purposes.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
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Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor And again, the majority of women with PAS is very slim. There aren't many women ready to blow their brains out 'cause they had an abortion...and if they did have PAS they can get over it in a matter of days. Also the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association do not recognize PAS as an actual diagnosis or condition.
Is this your only argument? I'm getting rather tiresome of the same crap you're feeding me.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor (continued) Even if she went along with the pregnancy, the baby would still die...so in cases like that it's best just to have the abortion.
Purpledragon1766 3 months ago
.......... outer space?
shorts 4 months ago
I love that that the anti abortionists are generally the same people who promote abstinence programs in schools. Yet fail to see that more safe sex means less unwanted pregnancy.
CroNuS19785 6 months ago
FACT: Abortion is a woman's choice, and if you are not either the woman or the man involved, it is none of your freakin business.
FACT: America doesn't recognize any mythology/religion as a legit basis for effecting the legal status of this medical procedure.
FACT: The earth is NOT the center of the universe
FACT: Nobody uses abortion as birth-control, so stop peddling that crap.
FACT: The earth is NOT flat
Hopefull these amazing facts will help educate pro-lifers.
14598175 6 months ago
@UncleRoofie God Hates Abortion, and we the Theist along with some of our atheist allies are doing our best to end this monstrosity that plagues this world.
CatholicCreed 6 months ago
Why don't you people do something about the real murder of children, start with pedophiles, move to mothers who nuke or drown their children. I know if I was one of those kids I would have wished to never be born. Sometimes it's better for the parent to take the sin of abortion then to give that child such a miserable life. If you can't understand that, maybe you just haven't really looked at he ugly in this world.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela There were 1,494 child murders in the US in '08. There are, roughly, 1.3 million abortions a year. Ever hear of the term "triage"?
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 Last statics was 1,502 child murders, 3.3 million reports of abuse on 6 million children, with over over 491,720 registered sex offenders who are averaged to molest between 100-200 victims each in their lifetime, •80,000 to 100,000 of the above offenders are missing. If you are into triage, I think I have your numbers beat. Yet you are more concerned that 1.3 million children will not be abused in a lifetime.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela Interesting numbers. It still doesn't change anything though. First, you're erroneously assuming that everyone who aborts is a child abuser (or, most likely, the spouse/girlfriend of one.) Also, you bring up a false dilemma; it's like saying "Don't be against war when there is still slavery in the world." One can simultaneously decry multiple forms of evil.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 Amazing, first you claim to be doing triage, as kids killed are only under 1,500 but abortion is 1.3 million a year, so I show you larger numbers of kids walking around today who are forever changed, and will not have a "normal" life, a problem that maybe if we could do more about, that 1.3million abortions might go down some, and you say that it's a false dilemma. What do you actually do to help any of the kids, preborn or preschool? Besides your comments on youtube?
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela You take for granted that there is such thing as a "normal" life. What does that even mean? You are all too eager to assume what is best for millions of unborn people (I wonder, pray tell, how you would respond if someone bigger, stronger, richer, etc. than you decided that your life wasn't all that great, either, and that you would better off dead?) What do abortion and child abuse have to do with each other (other than they both harm children.) I don't see any consistency.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 There is a level of normal a child deserves, not to sexually abused, tortured, abused, etc. No you are to eager to assume that living life would be best for 1.3 million unwanted fetus', you know better then the women who would have brought them into the world. That person you describe, isn't my biological anything, and I am already here, not a fetus. Easy one is a real crime, one is under punished, one is a real concern we should all have. What does abortion have to do with you? cont
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela Opposing abortion isn't condoning child abuse. How can you even draw that connection? You also didn't answer my earlier response to that argument, IE, not every child aborted would have been born into a home with an abuser (and even if they were, I wouldn't accept that as an acceptable excuse for abortion.) Ultimately, only one question matters. Is the fetus human? If not, no justification for abortion is necessary. If yes, no justification for abortion is possible.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 First you never asked me a question to answer, you just accused me of erroneously believing that aborted fetus would be abused. There is no such thing as needing to answer a response or statement, I actually asked you a question. You may not accept anything about abortion, no one is asking you to. We are just merely pointing out you are not the be all end all in the world. Your belief isn't anything, and you aren't going to care for all the unwanted children in the world. cont
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 As of September 30, 2009, there were an estimated 423,773 children in foster care. Yet you want to put more in there, without fixing it first? 143,000,0002 Orphans in the world today spend an average of 10 years in an orphanage or foster home. Approximately 250,000 children are adopted annually, but…Every YEAR 14,050,000 children still grow up as orphans and AGE OUT of the system never having a family.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela You see abortion as a "cure" for these issues (like if a cure for Grandma's migraine was to chop her head off.) I see abortion as a contributing part of the sick system of morals and values that rips families apart and destroys children in the womb and devalues everyone based only on what they can produce, economically. I have what is called a "Consistent Life Ethic." You see abortion as a solution, I see it, at best, as a band-aid solution, and at worse, part of the problem.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 I don't see abortion as a cure, or a solution. I see a problem to large to fix and it's gushing blood, maybe for now till we can fix it, it needs a band-aid. I would never cut grandma's head of because of a headache, that is just retarded. Families are ripped apart daily without abortion being the reason. Sorry you feel devalued for not producing more. We also offer the band-aid of therapy to get you through.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela Why the smarmy, ad hominem remarks? I am being very frank and forward. Cut the snark and dialogue like an adult. I'm glad you admit abortion is a problem, on that we have some common ground. I think you're a bit naive though to wait for the world to be a utopia before trying to fight abortion. Under your criteria, we'll be waiting forever. Injustices wont naturally stop themselves, it is up to engaged citizens to do it.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 Yeah it wasn't smarmy when you said you should have been aborted, or ridiculous when you suggested cutting grandma's head off for a headache, very straight forward and frank. Remember putting yourself on a pedestool can be a far drop. You cut the snark and maybe we can have a dialogue, but I really don't see it happening. See I am niave, that isn't ad hominem at all. You may not understand that sometimes fixing the reasons can fix the problem, but you aren't doing much either.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 "Injustices wont naturally stop themselves, it is up to engaged citizens to do it." Yes, it is up to people to make the most responsible decisions they are able to, which is why abortions are a legal right, and readily available. Injustices WONT stop themselves, I agree, but why say that, then turn around and say you want millions more unwanted kids produced with nowhere to go, no one to love them? Think it through a bit more maybe.
loathedanabhorred 6 months ago
@Jordoom777 Why won't you answer what you do to help kids besides youtube comments? Because you don't do anything, thus you are of no consequence to the issue. Good day.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela For some of us, talking about these issues is all we can do at this point. I'm a 21-year-old Politics student who has spent the summer working in a farmer's field for about $25 a day. Oh, wait, that kinda sounds like a bummed out summer... Perhaps I should have just been aborted?
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 Why is youtube comments all you can do? Because you are a student who spends their summers working on a farm? Seriously a poltitics student and the best job you can get makes you $500 a month, very sad, but not sad enough you should have been aborted, your mother clearly wanted you, sorry you are so afraid you could have been aborted, but you weren't, relax. Life is a crap shoot.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela It is very sad. I had to move back in with my old man for the summer. However, I see hardship and I say "Ok, tighten that belt and trudge on." You see hardship and start lobbing off heads (metaphorically) because for you, a hard life isn't a life worth living. Yet, o suffer is often the lot of humanity. So we deal with it. I don't only post on YouTube, I blog an have been published in local papers. I was an editor for my campus paper, and brought up life issues there.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 Your old man, is that your dad or your boyfriend? So you don't work on a "farmer's farm"lol. Geesh most would help out family for free so you get your allowance not a paycheck..got it. Ah good to know you do other then just whining on youtube, it's not much but it's something. Still I would recommend you watch a movie "If these walls could talk" both 1 and 2 are very educational.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela Once again, your maturity undermines your already weak arguments. I was being nice and honest, you've got nothing to offer but facetiousness. Good day, clearly this isn't a solemn and important issue to you. Though I will clear up, I live in a rural town (with my father), and then commute further into the boonies to work on a farm. Cheerio.
Jordoom777 7 months ago
@Jordoom777 You have not been nice or honest. I have not offered up facetiousness, I have offered up real life scenarios that you refuse to understand or believe. You can pretend to be on higher ground if that makes you feel better, but you are too young to know what is going on out here. The only thing solemn and important here, is you are not everyone, and everyone is not you. You are not the be all end all of this world.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@Lady0Pamela Abortion is REAL murder of children too.
jojoneli76 3 months ago
@jojoneli76 No abortion is the termination of a fetus especially if the woman does it before 10 weeks. If we don't fix what is happening to children who are already here we can't stop abortion. Fix the problems and you will have your solution. You guys are always preborn your cool, preschool your screwed.
Lady0Pamela 3 months ago
Abortion can't be undone? Since when can't a woman choose to have a child after an abortion? LOL! Abortion isn't a choice, it's a medical procedure and a right. You can't control what someone else does with their body. Period. The Constitution protects her choice, so there is no debate. End of story. PERIOD.
14598175 8 months ago 12
@14598175 No abortion cant be undone, you have murdered this unique person.
abortion is not a medical procedure, its murder.
the constitution protects LIFE which you pro-Choice's conveniently forget.
CatholicCreed 6 months ago
@CatholicCreed You are as ignorant as they come. A person is born, has a name, breaths oxygen. You can't kill "someone" if they are not even breathing for f*cks sake. Abortion is a medical procedure, and none of your business. So obey the law and keep your twisted delusional moral crap to yourself. I don't know where you get the idea that the constituon somehow protects your absurd notion that a lump of cells is "life" but you are clearly a clueless MORON!!
14598175 6 months ago
@14598175 is you think a fetus is a "lump of cells" then you are the MORON and it takes away your credibility. A fetus is alive you moron. It has a beating heart and a working brain, working organs, hands, feet, eyes, etc. Everything you have. It's a human and its alive and a LIFE. If you don't believe this which is not an opinion but a fact then you are lacking in brain cells. "A person is born"?? Really. So a fetus magically transform into a person once it's outside the womb but
jojoneli76 4 months ago
@jojoneli76 A fetus does not begin to have a human brain until at least week 26, when the cerebral cortex begins to develop. At week 5, it develops brain vesicles which are sacs of fluid that will develop into primitive structures such as the thalamus and midbrain, often referred to as the "lizard brain" because of their similarity to brains of the lower animals. There is no evidence that the brain functions prior to week 34. The fetus is sedated by naturally occurring chemicals in the womb.
pirbird14 4 months ago
@14598175 inside the womb it's not a person. So what is it? Let me see a person by defiinition is a human being. A human fetus has a HUMAN heart, HUMAN brain, HUMAN organs, HUMAN limbs, created by human sperm and eggs.......guess what, It's HUMAN so it's a person. By the way, most expectant parents name their baby when it is still in the womb so your a person "has a name" argument proves our side.
jojoneli76 4 months ago
Webster's 11th edition online defines "human being" as "human(n)", and then defines "human(n)" as "a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man; broadly : hominid". It then defines "man" as : a "bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) that is anatomically related to the great apes but distinguished especially by notable development of the brain with a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning" or "person".
In what way does the fetus display personhood or abstract reason?
pirbird14 4 months ago
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SpankinMusic 3 months ago
@pirbird14 You use the word person. In fact "person" means individual human being. A fetus displays personhood by its DNA alone. There are two explicitly individual human beings involved directly in the period of pregnancy. Both are party to Human Rights by virtue of their humanity. The way pro-abortion scholars have denigrated the experience of motherhood to tenancy between mother and child is such a low blow to a beautiful natural wonder. Motherhood carries our species into another generation
SpankinMusic 3 months ago
@SpankinMusic I gave you a definition of person from Webster and asked you in what way the fetus meets that definition. Instead of answering that, you just made up your own definition. If, according to you, DNA equates to person, then a hydatdiform mole is a person. A human chimera is two persons in one body. Human twins are one person in two bodies. No one is denigrating motherhood. We are talking about unwanted pregnancies. Motherhood takes place after birth.
pirbird14 3 months ago
@SpankinMusic "Mere possession of the genetic material for a future human being does not make a human being. ..A purely genetic description of the human species does not describe a human being. A human being represents a whole other level of organization, as distinct from a simple embryo as an embryo is distinct from an egg and sperm. It is the dynamics between genes and environment that make a human being. .." -Michael S. Gazzaniga, Ph.D.
pirbird14 3 months ago
@SpankinMusic American Heritage Dictionary, person: The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.
The fetus has a self?
pirbird14 3 months ago
@pirbird14 In what way does an infant or 1 year old display abstract reason?
SuburbiaSurvivor 3 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor In what way is your question relevant? The definition specifies *capacity* for abstract reason, not the actual use of abstract reason. The capacity for abstract reason begins to develop when the cerebral cortex has sufficiently developed. This organ does not even begin to develop until week 26 in the fetal stage. Most abortions happen before week 12.
pirbird14 2 months ago
@pirbird14 Which question? If you're responding to a conversation we had weeks ago you're going to want to refresh my memory.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@jojoneli76 People also name their pet rocks. Naming things doesn't make them human.
pirbird14 4 months ago
@pirbird14 hey Einstein I was responding to 14598175's comment some comments back where he/she said and I quote "A person is born, has a NAME, breaths oxygen. " I was merely saying that this is not true and many babies are already named from the very beginning as soon as the pregnancy is confirmed. I was no where saying that naming things makes it human.
jojoneli76 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jojoneli76 You also said, " By the way, most expectant parents name their baby when it is still in the womb so your a person "has a name" argument proves our side."
The fact that some parents name their fetus does not prove that the fetus is a person.
pirbird14 3 months ago
@pirbird14 Of course not. I never said that. Again, i was responding to what 1498175 said and the fact that he used the "a person has name" argument. I was merely stating the fact that many expectant mothers/fathers already name their fetus so if a person has a name according to him, then a fetus is a person according to him.
jojoneli76 3 months ago
@14598175 No guess what it is a medical procedure which kills people and it is LSO UNBCOBSTITUTIONAL TO KILL PEOPLE AND THE WOMEN SHAREAS THE BODY WITH THE CHILD SO THE CHILD HAS AN EQUAL SAY, ALSO GETTING A CHILD LATER MEANS A DIFFERENT CHILD THE ONE CHILD IS STILL DEAD!!!!!
reviewreviewer1 3 months ago
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breemystic 9 months ago
Does any one else notice that she has a hanger around her neck... not a real good way to help debate your side...
Breana9109 11 months ago
@Breana9109 Yeah.... well they seem to rejoice in mutilation, as long as it isn't their own arms, legs, torso, and head everything is hunky dory.
crawfordroses 9 months ago
@Breana9109 She has the hanger around her neck, because when abortion was illegal that is what was used on women in back alleys. You can't stop abortion, even if you make it illegal, you will just send it back to the dark alleys.
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
Thats why there is Birth Control, and also the simple fact of saying no, and keeping her legs closed.
southernwolf93 1 year ago
@southernwolf93 but it's all fine and dandy if a woman spreads her legs, get's pregnant twice by two different guys if she has them right? If she accepts her punishment and makes the best of her situation?
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
Oh my goodness.... that little girl and baby are so PRECIOUS! Please choose life!
bluepuppyboy 1 year ago
@bluepuppyboy
Oh yes, just because you think children are cute, women should be forced lived with unwanted children who will not have a good life.
Sims2Loveee 1 year ago 2
@Sims2Loveee
Are you kidding me? It's not because children and babies are cute, it's because they're precious--you aren't forced to live with them---if you can't raise them, there are many adoptive parents-in-waiting who would love that child as their own, doting and caring about them with every fiber of their being.
bluepuppyboy 1 year ago
@bluepuppyboy they may be precious in YOUR opinion, but i'm not fucking keeping one of those around, and i'm sure as hell not wasting 9 months putting my body and social life through hell to make one of those little shits. you like them so much, go adopt some!
froggymicwop 10 months ago
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bluepuppyboy 10 months ago
@froggymicwop
as a matter of fact, I AM adopting one--I don't consider babies or children to be "little shits" as you call them--Someone must have been pretty mean to you for you to feel this way...
bluepuppyboy 10 months ago
@bluepuppyboy good that you're adopting, but if you base your opinions on whether or not people were mean to you, you must be extremely stupid or at least mentally unstable. most of us don't form our opinions that way. perhaps you know this and are just having a pathetic attempt at shaming me for having a different opinion than you. in that case, let me make this clear: i am under NO obligation to like (or bear) children.
froggymicwop 10 months ago
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bluepuppyboy 9 months ago
@froggymicwop
Your mother bore you--and you turned out to be very, very nasty... Way to insult anyone who disagrees with you.
bluepuppyboy 9 months ago
@bluepuppyboy you're the one insulting someone who disagrees with you. i'm not nasty because i don't like something, but am to people who deserve it. like, you know, logically retarded pro-lifers on youtube who are too stupid to get their comments right the first time and those who think something's wrong with you if you don't like something they do. none of your points even make any sense. my mother bore me-so what? she chose to do that. now go abort yourself you dumb twat. i'm done with you.
froggymicwop 9 months ago
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bluepuppyboy 9 months ago
@bluepuppyboy Maybe you ppl should have thought of that before you stopped her mother from going into that clinic...JK
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@froggymicwop This explains everything. You are chilfree child hater so of course you are FOR the murder of babies. Your opinions are biased because you hate children.
jojoneli76 3 months ago
@jojoneli76 everyone's opinion is biased. if you like children, it biases you. if you are against sex, it biases you. it doesn't matter though, because everyone has bias and a right to their own opinion as long as they don't go legislating others' actions.
froggymicwop 3 months ago
@froggymicwop Hitler had a bias and he murdered millions of innocent people because of it so yes biases do matter sometimes.
jojoneli76 3 months ago
@jojoneli76 again, EVERYONE has a bias. and no, troll, i'm not going to go off topic with you and talk about hitler lol.
froggymicwop 3 months ago
@jojoneli76 Well, hitler was a christian, murdering people is practically a definition of Christianity, but your right about bias.
humanistheart 3 months ago
@bluepuppyboy no thanks.
froggymicwop 10 months ago
these anti abortion people are not pro life they are anti choice
neoarcadezr 1 year ago 2
@neoarcadezr then pro-choice are anti-life and pro-abortion.
jojoneli76 3 months ago
@jojoneli76 no pro-choice is pro-life just anti-control :)
neoarcadezr 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It is only if human life is respected from conception to death that the ethics of peace is also possible and credible," concluded the Pope. "It is only then that non-violence can express itself in every direction; only then that we truly welcome creation, and only then that we can arrive at true justice." Pope Benedict XVI
The most Dangerous Place in the world is not Iraq or any other military zone, but a Mother's Womb - 300 Million Dead World Wide so far.
teton99 1 year ago
It is only if human life is respected from conception to death that the ethics of peace is also possible and credible," concluded the Pope. "It is only then that non-violence can express itself in every direction; only then that we truly welcome creation, and only then that we can arrive at true justice." Pope Benedict XVI
The most Dangerous Place in the world is not Iraq or any other military zone, but a Mother's Womb - 300 Million Dead World Wide so far.
teton99 1 year ago
@teton99 you are certainly right, in each year alone there are over 43 million natural miscarriages worldwide. The mother's womb seems to be quite hostile, what do you intend to do about it?
fatmeteor 1 year ago
@fatmeteor I saw we invade it like we did Iraq and bomb the shit out of it! Once again fighting for freedom! GO USA!!!
mucura1 1 year ago
ABORTION WITHOUT APOLOGY
XBENJAMINBREAKDOWNX 1 year ago
either side, pro life or pro choice continuously arguing over a hopeless cause. Nip the problem at the bud, make birth control more affordable, educate young women and men about abortion..its not a pretty thing..and then educate them on how to never have to make that decision. I don't agree with abortion unless its life or death for the mother. But come on...arguing about it isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
ProudMommy705 2 years ago 2
@ProudMommy705 Very well said!
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
@ProudMommy705 I never agree with abortion, but there is a safer way in the case of health of the mother, and it does not involve ripping someone into tinny peaces.
CatholicCreed 6 months ago
I think the only reason an abortion should be made available is if a woman's life is at risk if they were to continue carrying a child. Pregnancy caused by rape can be avoided by the morning after pill..I'm not saying this to be insensitive to rape victims in any way. But why increase emotional and physical scarring with abortion when a simple pill can be taken to stop fertilization before it happens? I also think that MORE should be put into education/availability of BIRTH CONTROL instead of...
ProudMommy705 2 years ago
1. Those babies are adorable
2. Every baby deserves to be loved
3. If you don't give people the choice to be responsible, then how responsible will their parenting be?
iwantwatermellon 2 years ago
@iwantwatermellon i get 1 and 2 but 3.... your right and there is also some couples that cant have babies , and it kills them .. let them have the miracle of life!
I myself was adopted and deeply loved , it can do WONDERS for a child as well as the parent..
Miinnniie 1 year ago
Anybody who sees the abortion issue as a simple one, is a complete and utter simpleton.
Taking away a person's right to decide whether they are fit to become a mother or not is fucking stupid.
Abortion should be legal - but we should be smart enough by now to ensure that we don't ever need to use it.
^wonders why he is even bothering... *sigh*
LeatherCladVegan 2 years ago
@LeatherCladVegan Well said
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
Fuckin pro choice cunts
livermurf 2 years ago
@livermurf Wow so glad someone stopped your mom from going into the clinic, would have hated to miss your wit! lol
Lady0Pamela 7 months ago
Abortion can't be undone. It last for more than 5 minutes dumbasses
funnystuff123d3 2 years ago 3
@funnystuff123d3 Neglected children can't be undone either, and they last a LOT longer than 5 minutes.
chinesemonk 8 months ago
@chinesemonk
Neglect and abuse can be undone murder can't
funnystuff123d3 8 months ago