Chiropractic Adjustment of the Subluxation

[kirokids]

What are you thinking man? Talking about the subluxation like it is some kind of bone out of place is so 1950’s. It is all about the nervous system and measuring it is no great problem at all. It can be measured, cross-referenced to a multitude of other measureable factors and corrected by the use of an impulse at a precisely derived point.

[workingstiff76]

There is no such thing as a Subluxation. Ask five chiropractors to read an X-ray and find subluxations and you'll get get five different results. Chiropractors don't even agree on what a subluxation actually is.

[AtlasDeQuiropraxia]

@workingstiff76 You need to find five good chiros. I already done this test and got 100% of agreement.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn But golly willikers Scotty! You are in chiropractic...Everyone is Scotty. Chiropractic is in innate. Chiropractic helps the body express its g-d givin innate intelligence. Scotty! We're related dude! We're both from the same species. Yee ha! Our war is over... Come Scotty! Let's git you a chiropractic spinal adjustment! Viva Chiropractic!

[Scottrchrdsn]

@chiropractic47 Chiropractic has never saved anybody.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn By keeping you at your computer trolling YouTube chiro vids instead of roaming the streets murdering prostitutes...I'd say your chiropractic envy has saved you Scotty.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@chiropractic47 I have a VERY serious question to ask you. And, I want a truthful answer (presuming you are capable of such). Question is: How many people have you, personally, killed by doing cervical manipulations that caused a stroke? If you have seen even half the patients you claim you have then I bet you have killed a few.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn Sorry chap...all my patients (10,000 active patient files) have been accounted for and all are in general good health. Nope... no deaths on my watch, and I still pay $1500/year malpractice insurance, with no claims made. What did you kill Scotty?

[Scottrchrdsn]

I bet you have killed somebody, or at least caused a few strokes.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn You seem to have this awkward and aloof facination with death Scotty. I have a good ear and some patience...go on chap...tell me more about yourself...when and where did this all begin.... Along with the appropriate psychological counseling, please consider nervous system relaxing chiropractic care. Peace.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn Just Google the article "Dr. Bruley Goes to Chiropractic School". Innate intelligence will guide you to your next step.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@chiropractic47 Innate morality is something that you are lacking.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn Eat me.

[chiropractic47]

@darrylhaynes Then why do Doctors of Chiropractic (DC) only pay $1500.year malpractice insurance while MD's pay anywhere between $50,000 and $300,000 malpractice/year? Isn't insurance about risk and claims made?

[chiropractic47]

@chwisch87 Sorry Chris, your wrong. Chiropractic encompasses the entire body.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@chiropractic47 Like hell it does.

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn Folks, my buddy Scotty here hasen't taken meds for days. He''s a rare case where meds are indicated for antipsychotic episodes...g-d bless his poor ass soul.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@chiropractic47 Speaking of psychotic behavior; how are you doing now?

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn Re: "...how are you doing now?" Well...let's just say I still hate you...?

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn Sounds as if you've been to hell recently?

[haymaker710]

In Australia do chiropractors do adjustments clockwise?

[Scottrchrdsn]

@haymaker710 I like your witty comment!!

[xpressin]

Can this cure my brothers obesity?

[Scottrchrdsn]

I do not think much, at all, of chiropractic. Nonetheless, this man does have a charming manner and makes a good representation of a dubious practice. I would not deal with his chiropractic practice at all; but, I would buy him a drink!!

[katherine83095]

my neck curves forward the same....help?

[ospreylookout]

Chiro: In the 115 years since chiropractic began, the existence of chiropractic subluxations has never been objectively demonstrated. They have never been shown to cause interference with the nervous system. They have never been shown to cause disease.

[ospreylookout]

Chiro: I know these words are meaningless to you, however. The criteria for causation in epidemiology are strength (strength of association), consistency, specificity, temporality (temporal sequence), dose response, experimental evidence, biological plausibility, coherence, and analogy. Applied to the chiropractic subluxation, all of these criteria remain for the most part absent. So what is the construct that validates chiropractic?

[ospreylookout]

Hughes, Bolton: Is chiropractic an effective treatment in infantile colic? Arch Dis Child 2002;86:382-384 The authors conclude: The evidence suggests that chiropractic has no benefit over placebo in the treatment of infantile colic.

[ospreylookout]

Chiro: For the construct "subluxation" there's no evidence that it exists or that "doing something about it" has an effect. The burden of proof falls on chiros show that the subluxation can be objectively demonstrated, that it does cause interference with the nervous system, and that it does cause disease. They have failed to do so for 115 years.

[ospreylookout]

According to a 2006 Gallup Poll of U.S. adults, when asked how they would "rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in these different fields", chiropractic compared unfavorably with mainstream medicine. When chiropractic was rated, it "rated dead last amongst healthcare professions". While 84% of respondents considered nurses' ethics "very high" or "high," only 36% felt that way about chiropractors.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@ospreylookout In my humble opinion it is not even a healthcare profession! Having written that I will then state there are a few chiropractors who are ethical. They feel their profession is good as a physical therapy-for the lower back. And that is all it is good for. Doctors (M.D.s and D.O.s) will generally agree with that caveat. Other than that, chiropractic is quackery and should be outlawed.

[ospreylookout]

We must finally come to the painful realization that the chiropractic concept of spinal subluxation as the cause of "dis-ease" within the human body is an untested hypothesis (Murphy, et al, Chiropractic & Osteopathy. Volume 16, Article 10, August 29, 2008).

[ospreylookout]

The chiropractic profession has an obligation to actively divorce itself from metaphysical explanations of health and disease as well as to actively regulate itself in refusing to tolerate fraud, abuse and quackery, which are more rampant in chiropractic than in other healthcare professions (Foreman SM Stahl MJ: Chiropractors disciplined by state chiropractic board and a comparison with disciplined medical physicians. J Manipulative Physiol Ther 2004, 27(7):472-476).

[unpurekorn]

Does anybody outside of the Chiropractic community know that I, as a Chiropractic student, had 1 full year of Anatomy WITH cadaver dissection? Do you know that the average undergraduate education is 120 credits, and here at NYCC (New York Chiropractic college) in order to graduate we need a total of 225 credits? Gee for a profession of quacks we sure have a lot of graduate level education.

[money4412]

I feel your pain. Why there is so much negativity toward the profession is beyond me. I myself have experienced the rehabilitative effects of chiro. I think people become skeptical when (a select few) chiros. claim to cure ailments beyond the scope of the back. However, the profession and its training are respectable. The general public may make hyperbolic statements, but ask them one question about how chiro. works and all you get is a blank stare.

[chiropractic47]

money4412, chiropractics scope of those helped goes well beyond musculoskeletal. Thank you otherwise for your support of chiropractic.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@money4412 I agree that anytime that a chiropractor claims to cure ailments beyond the scope of the back that even other chiropractors tend to get skeptical; as they should.

[chiropractic47]

unpurekorn, chiropractic students complete a very similar curricula (DC=classroom 4800 hrs.) as medical students (4600 classroom hrs.). Recent studies comparing chiropractic students and medical students revealed chiropractic students not only complete more classroom instruction in most advanced health science subjects but also have a greater undertanding in concepts of: anatomy and physiology, orthopedics, neurology, etc. You stay proud, we are proud of you! Chiropractic!

[clark1wd]

@chiropractic47 .....You've got to be kidding me. Greater understanding in concepts of anatomy, physiology, orthopedics, and neurology than medical students? Would you please post a link to these studies? If this were really true don't you think that the general public would have more respect for your profession? I don't have a problem with chiropractors, just don't make it seem like you're more than you really are.

[chiropractic47]

@clark1wd It's true Clark. You can simply Google: "Chiropractic students have both more instruction and greater understanding of anatomy and physiology, orthopedics, neurology than medical students". Or you can go to "The Grisanti Report" or you can go to "Dr. Bruley goes to Chiropractic School". Many medical schools employ Doctors of Chiropractic as anatomy and physiology instructors. And...chiropractic is the second largest but fastest growing primary health care profession. Viva Chiropractic!

[Hoboscouts]

It makes sense why you need so many credits. If it was a low amount the profession would be even more discredited but with all this training you guys can make your selves feel like your doing something

[ospreylookout]

unpure: It has nothing to do with how much time you spent in the anatomy lab, but more with the claims that your leaders make to the public.You are going to be one sorry, disallusioed person when, for all your hard work, you find yourself scrutinized on one side, and pushed to believe in unsubstantiated pseudo-religious quackery on the other. Where is the evidemce-based practice? Where are the high quality research stuides to support the claims? Infant colic? BS! C-spine manip for kids? Holy BS!

[chirojanee]

If chiropractic does nothing, please tell that to my patient who doesn't suffer from epilepsy anymore, my numerous migraine sufferers who now hardly ever get any headaches, the little 3 yr old boy who is now walking after his hip was returned to its normal position, my patient with half a lung who can breathe like a normal person, my patient with ecsema who stopped using cortizone because her skin is now fine, my own son who went to ICU at birth, got adjusted there and the his paediatrician.

[chiropractic47]

chirojanee, way to go doctor (DC)! Remember...ADIO! Chiropractic!

[bucknaky33]

i don't give a damn if there was zero scientific evidence to support Chiro. Thousands of people are going to Chiropractic clinics and feeling tremendously better then they ever were when they were going to medical doctors, why on earth would you criticize it if it's helping so many people? Sure, there are obviously good and bad DC's, just like any other profession, but the fact is Chiro has improved the lives of so many people that going around and telling people that Chiro is a scam is a joke.

[bucknaky33]

Go ahead and keep saying Chiropractic is completely worthless, false, pseudoscience, quackery, a scam, or whatever else you want to call it. Truth is, there are thousands and thousands of testimonials regarding Chiro. I've been to numerous DC's who have had patients come in that were on all sorts of drugs and meds and are now off them and feeling better than they ever have thanks to Chiro. Even if it was a placebo, its the best damn placebo I've ever seen. I'll take it over drugs/meds any day.

[Scottrchrdsn]

@bucknaky33 I am aghast that chiropractic is still legal. 

[chiropractic47]

@Scottrchrdsn And chiropractic is still growing faser than medicine...oops! I hope this fact didn't upset you?

[caballeroinex]

Use the activator!! the activator is a key tool for chiros. The best invention created by REAL doctors!..and the best of all...It really works!!! (sarcasm:off)

[chiropractic47]

cabba-babble, Google: "Death by Medicine" by Gary Null, PhD., et al. Everyone! Let's bow our heads and reflect in silence for the 800,000 Americans who died last year while in the line of fire coming from Organized Medicine and Big Pharma. Everyone needs chiropractic care, even the likes of chiropractics detractors such as cabba-babble, etc. Chiropractic!

[ospreylookout]

We must finally come to the painful realization that the chiropractic concept of spinal subluxation as the cause of "dis-ease" within the human body is an untested hypothesis (Murphy, et al, Chiropractic & Osteopathy. Volume 16, Article 10, August 29, 2008).

[ospreylookout]

The chiropractic profession has an obligation to actively divorce itself from metaphysical explanations of health and disease as well as to actively regulate itself in refusing to tolerate fraud, abuse and quackery, which are more rampant in chiropractic than in other healthcare professions (Foreman SM Stahl MJ: Chiropractors disciplined by state chiropractic board and a comparison with disciplined medical physicians. J Manipulative Physiol Ther 2004, 27(7):472-476).

[ryderguy18]

U mean journals like Spine and JMPT? They have relativley high impact factors (rating used to index journals) w/ interdiscipinary support.

You are assuming medicine is the 'scientific community'. Not much support for their methods -acording to Smith R. 1991. "Where is the wisdom?" British Medical Journal 303: 798-799

only 15% of medical procedures have evidence to support them. or is this the science you meant- Medicine is the third leading cause of death: Starfield, B 2000 JAMA; 284:483-485

[cowy1]

Dude, you defend JMPT like it is are Nature; both (especially JMPT) have laughably low impact factors and JMPT published crap that wouldn't/can't get accepted anywhere else. That is what happens when you believe in a fictional entity like the "subluxation".

As for the "medicine as the third leading cause of death" issue, so what? It sucks, but how many more people would die if we sent them all to chiropractors?

[ryderguy18]

There is a ton of literature to support the chiropractic subluxation. Im not sure what this guy was doing but there are alot of approachs some good some bad.

If someone tells you have have a subluxation...get it taken care of. No it cannot be seen on xray. It is a complex...a clinical presentation of dysfunctional physiology. It is usually clothed in anatomy (obviosusly) but to say..there it is I can see it is incorrect..it is not a physical entity as much as it is a complex/ of dysfunction.

[cowy1]

No, there isn't. Sorry but poorly done studies with tons of problems published in shitty journals carry no weight with the scientific community outside of chiropractic.

[roszposa]

What exactly is a subluxation and can it be seen on an xray?

[Scottrchrdsn]

Believe it or not; a subluxation has never been proven to exist. And, cannot be seen on an x-ray. I am not certain what this reflex is about.

[Digitalbumpin]

It absolutely CAN be seen on an x-ray.

[Scottrchrdsn]

Well, ryderguy18 states that it cannot be seen on a X-Ray; and he believes in the existence of subluxations! So, why can't you guys who believe in chiropractic get together with your story??

[Digitalbumpin]

I don't care what anyone else thinks. The facts are the facts.

[cowy1]

No, it can't. Anybody who is showing you a chiropractic subluxation on a x-ray doesn't know what they are looking at.

[fx1967]

This is very interesting but he hasn't accomplished anything...a real patient with a significant painful subluxation won't tolerate the positions he uses or all that show-manship with the reflex hammer???/

[Scottrchrdsn]

You are so right!!

[chiropractic47]

Scotty Dog fracture! What up you medical dog?

[kirokids]

Rolfing is a soft tissue technique. The NeuroImpulse adjustment is a point specific thrust to generate neural stimulation at the right place at the irght time, usually over a joint.

It is derived from the chiropractic toggle recoil thrust and has come a long way since then. Interestingly, it can be applied to soft tissue and seems to cause myofascial release.

[SkanRashke]

I think I see. (Did some more research on rolfing, thanks very much!) So this is an altnerative to the typical approach of palpation of the spine to determine subluxations?

[kirokids]

Thanks for revisting after 1 year. This is very much an alternative to what is known as motion palpation since we are also gathering neurological evidence, not just biomechanical information about join motion. Since neural function is what chiropractic is all about, we believe chiropractors need to examine more than just range of motion and feel soft tissue changes.

[kirokids]

There are many methods varying from motion palpation of the facet joints, more subtle palpation of the soft tissues, measuring overall or global active range of motion of the spinal areas including extremity joints and using neural tests to determine nervous function.

Motion palpation is taught at all chiropractic colleges and is fine tuned in courses like NIP and others at post-graduate level.

[SkanRashke]

thanx for uploading- is this the same as rolfing?