Kathleen Harrison at the WPF about Salvia [part 2 of 2]

[LikeTotallyRich]

The last 15 seconds of this speach is WAY more important than you think!

[SweetSpot60a9]

@LikeTotallyRich Agreed.

[antbarton]

@LikeTotallyRich So good to read your comment,couldnt agree more.

[intuitiveworker]

"la pastora is one of my great allies"  K.H. regarding the fresh leaf form.

[mtvguy92]

i beleive smoking the plant genereates malice in lady sally but it is our job to apease her. and through apeasing her we aqtain enlightenment in a diferent manner.

[NDW21x]

i really love her voice

[tyniehawk]

Very cool thanks for posting :D

[Anomki]

This is great. Also please read The Salvia divinorum User's Guide.

[soulsurferjeweet]

Very wise words :) Does anyone have her contacts? I want to ask her something work related. Would be great!

[MWCstream]

Hey, If you like Salvia Divinorum you should search for " Salvia Divinorum Distribution Project " on here or google to get a free cutting

cya

[Khobraz]

she is brilliant, amen.

[tenthousandyearsgoon]

so no one should smoke salvia?

[Milkmadness]

Towards the end, i understand what she's saying about never coming back. i went there and had more doses of other psychs that "flipped" a switch in my mind to be able to flip flop consciously between the placidy of shrooms and post lsd trips, to the determination to BE and to GO regardless of who what or where, felt right. after a powerful salvia connection has been made, our petty games will not last through salvia.

[Milkmadness]

diggy this viddy. i love salvia.

[LeonTielman]

What the hell is she talking about at 5:59? "Some people just never come back" Be more dramatic please. Help them regulate it more with stupid comments like those, please!

[Skiddla]

I totally agree with you.

This woman is not doing Salvia advocates any favors. I seriously question her motives here.

In part 1 she talks about how Salvia is offended by drying the leaves, and how you can't have sex for 3 days and on and on. What the hell is she shoveling?

Sounds like she barley survived Jim Jones Kool aid and now considers herself some kind of expert. This is offensive to anyone with half a brain.

[Babliclat]

thats terrence mckennas wife. she runs an ethnobotanical reserve. she is an expert. Jim Jones!? i guess mentioning another douchebag might take some of the attention off you

[2bornot2b1984]

She is not being dramatic if it's true.

The truth should be spoken regardless of the potential for regulation.

The truth is some people don't return to sanity and normalcy after taking salvia.

I guess the truth isn't as important as your wants and desires.

The truth should not be spoken so that your desires can be met.

You would do well not to subject yourself to the irony of commenting that others' comments are stupid.

[LeonTielman]

I don't think my reply to this message went though the first time, so I will repost it.

Firstly, what is the truth about "they never come back".

Some people get shot, they also never come back.

Present evidence for your statement: "he truth is some people don't return to sanity and normalcy after taking salvia."

Have ever even tried Salvia yourself?

You would do well to do your own research and perhaps try things for yourself before making another "stupid" comment.

[2bornot2b1984]

"Present evidence for your statement: "he truth is some people don't return to sanity and normalcy after taking salvia." Present your evidence to the contrary.

Have you spent as much time with a culture that had used salvia for thousands of years as her? No, yet you just want to be right over someone who has.

"Have ever even tried Salvia yourself?"

No. I haven't tried Puffer Fish either. Does that mean I am not qualified to know that 50 people a year die from it?

Your logic is weak.

[LeonTielman]

If you make a statement, the burden of proof is on you.

Yes my "logic is weak" -- yet you can't even follow the basic protocols of debate.

No I have not spent as much time with a primitive culture that believe in fairies and dragons. I have however, bought and read numerous books on Salvia research and the use of Salvia -- that actually tries to back up the statements they make.

You should try that sometime, backing up a statement, instead of regressing to petty insults.

[2bornot2b1984]

"If you make a statement, the burden of proof is on you. "

You made the statement that her comments were stupid. The burden of proof is on you to prove that her position is not valid. So prove it.

"You should try that sometime, backing up a statement, instead of regressing to petty insults"

Interesting philosophy seeing as how you didn't back up your comment about her position, and you insulted her.

Hypocrite much?

Protocols or no, so far in this debate I am kicking your ass.

:-)

[LeonTielman]

Wow, look what I found by taking 2 minutes of my time and using the interWEB.

"Salvia is non-toxic. There is no known LD/50 for Salvia, and no deaths or overdoses have occurred from Salvia directly."

"Any psychoactive substance can be potentially dangerous if it is used irresponsibly. There are no known medical complications, poisonings, deaths, or cases of dependency associated with Salvia. "

Yes, once again, you have "kicked my ass".

Forum troll much?

[2bornot2b1984]

Wow, Look what the very next sentence was after your source material:

In 2006, the herb received negative publicity when a young man, Brett Chidester, committed suicide. Chidester had been using Salvia for a prolonged amount of time, and his parents blamed it for his severe depression, vegetative states, and random outbursts. As a result, Delaware passed "Brett's Law", SB259, which prohibits the use or sale of Salvia.

Being sort of selective aren't you? Cherry pick much?

Continued...

[LeonTielman]

I am being selective? There is no proof that this child did not have a pre-existing condition, or any other psychological problems, or that he did not use any other ILLEGAL drugs.

And as as for your wiki comment, you are correct, any one can edit that. But please, do and try to find one more example, where Salvia was die direct cause of death(which is was not in that case), and I will concede this argument, and be sure it is not parents blaming external sources, as per usual.

[LeonTielman]

die = the

which is = which it

Sorry for those, just woke up :P

[2bornot2b1984]

"I am being selective?"

Yeah, you found what you wanted, and ignored the next sentence.

"do and try to find one more example, where Salvia was die direct cause of death"

But you only found one example to support YOUR position.

We have the testimony of a culture that has used if for thousands of years.

We have one example of a salvia user going off the deep end after using salvia. No proof salvia did it, but still, an indicator.

You also can not prove that people haven't died from salvia.

[LeonTielman]

Her position is hearsay. So I guess she wouldn't be able to prove that either.

I guess we could go at this forever, but I think we established views from both sides for viewers of this video to decide for themselves.

Thanks for the mental workout :-)

[TheDivineAberration]

ahaha

he said " no deaths or overdoses have occured from salvia directly" so he commits suicide, and just happens to be a salvia user, so by that logic, if i drank water alot, and then commited suicide, my death happened directly thanks to water?

[2bornot2b1984]

So your OWN source material provides an example of someone "who never came back".

You are intellectually dishonest, and just arguing because you don't want to be wrong.

Besides, you pulled your source from a wikibook, anyone can write those.

And another thing, there was a time when there was no known LD/50 for MOST compounds.

Again your logic is weak.

Salvia is relatively new to the western world.

That was really petty to cherry pick only the source material that supported your point

FAIL

[TheDivineAberration]

you complain about the downsides of his points, yet, you don't seem to have produced any good points opposing him? so maybe its you thats the hypocrite.

[2bornot2b1984]

I produced more evidence than he did.

And I used his own source as one of the examples. Which he ignored.

You and him should get a room.

[TheDivineAberration]

you produced one piece of "evidence" which was from his source, which is in no way any kind of evidence, a kid who happens to smoke salvia commits suicide? thats no evidence, now if thousands of kids who smoke salvia alot commit suicide... but still yeah, thats not evidence.

[2bornot2b1984]

First of all, I also offered the testimony of a culture who have been using Salvia for hundreds if not thousands of years. So that's two pieces of evidence.

Secondly his parents are more qualified to correlate their sons "vegetative states" and "random outbursts" than you are.

Besides Leon's "evidence" is this:

"and no deaths or overdoses have occurred from Salvia directly"

Wow. Sources? The article doesn't even list an author. Wow. Well I guess it's fact then. I mean, Wikibooks says so.

[TheDivineAberration]

so you use a piece from one of his sources against him and say its evidence, but when he uses something from the same thing, you complain about how it doesnt list an author, so it can't be true? good one there... and this cultures testimony, is merely hearsay, its not like they have history books of their culture, so if its not even written down, let alone list authors, by your standards it really can't be taken as fact.

[2bornot2b1984]

You are dense. Google Brett Chidester. I don't need to provide a source, the case IS the source.

My point was, he ignored it.

Where as this statement: "no deaths or overdoses have occurred from Salvia directly"

IS just self-substantiated circular hearsay written by an unknown author on Wikibooks

You can't understand this difference? I hope I am not wasting my time arguing with a 10th grader

I never said the testimony of the culture was fact. I said it was evidence to support a conclusion.

[TheDivineAberration]

i can only guess as to why he ignored it, and im guessing that because 1 death against the millions of people who use/have used it, is hardly significant in any way.now if his statement about how theres been no deaths or overdoses, if that was just hearsay, don't you think you'd be able to find more cases in which people have died due to salvia? if you could produce at least 3 good sources that talk about more deaths than just this brett chidester, then i'll believe you that its hearsay.

[TheDivineAberration]

and also correct me if i'm wrong (english isn't my first language) but for it to be evidence, doesn't it need to be factual?

and what do you mean by im dense?

[2bornot2b1984]

Where is your source that millions of people have used it? You are speculating. And you are speculating that no one has died from it.

Besides, you are missing the entire point of the debate

Mrs Harrison said people should be aware that some people never return to normal after a salvia trip, based on the testimony of people who historically used salvia

Leon thought it was "stupid" for here to say that

He was against her telling people to exercise caution. And you are supporting his position.

[TheDivineAberration]

i'm not supporting his position against exercising caution, i agree with Mrs harrison entirely, i'm a beilever in being careful when using any kind of drugs i've used so far, especially psycadelics such as salvia, i was merely opposing some of the things you had said, just because i opposed you doesn't mean im supporting Leon?

[TheDivineAberration]

also about my "speculation" of millions of people using it. something you were using earlier points to the vast amount of people that use salvia, this "culture" that used salvia for thousands of years, now thats got to be alot of people there, also theres thousands of videos on youtube of people tripping on salvia, so those are just two of my sources.

and

[TheDivineAberration]

i'm definately not speculating about how virtually no one has died from direct use of salvia, if people were dying from salvia, dont you think it would be all over faux news and all the other news channels with headlines like "NEW KILLER DRUG: YOU WILL DIE AFTER FIRST USE"

[PollockQT]

@2bornot2b1984 Scientifically and statistically one single case not only is it not enough data to even entertain a theory or reach a conclusion, but it is nearly a mathematically impossible occurrence. It s such an inconclusive data it would be discarded in a scientific or statistical research as even being an accountable possibility.

Any other conclusion aside from that is mere speculation.

[PollockQT]

@2bornot2b1984 I will indeed be forever changed by the experience, and for that I'm grateful.

Every mind altering experiences is going to make you see the world differently, because it takes you to a different state of mind, and I believe people should be aware of that, specially as an encouragement. And I also believe is reckless to consume anything you have no knowledge about, and that is a responsibility that lies only on oneself, and in oneself's ignorance and negligence only.

[shamrogorr]

He was a drinker too. I believe MADD states that alcohol is related to more suicides than all illegal drugs combined. Now I don't think salvia or alcohol make you commit suicide. Depression does. And I think he probably got into salvia for all the wrong reasons; he was looking for an escape through mind altering substances. When he realized that the substance won't take his problems away, that's when he killed himself.

TLDR reason:Drugs don't make people kill themselves, depression does.

[Swaynze33]

people like you make people kill themselves

[PollockQT]

@shamrogorr If someone who is that depressed decides to take the strongest "psychedelic" known to men while mixing it with alcohol, which one can only admit it's ironically predictable, one should also entertain the idea that the objective of this trip was actually making it his last...

Also, it would be foolish not to acknowledge that the incident was caused not by the substances he consumed, but by his judgment in doing so.

People die because of alcohol ALL THE TIME, why is this alarming?

[gamesDAMNED]

@TheDivineAberration I remember back in the '80s, when some kids killed themselves and the parents blamed Judas Priest and Ozzy. Judas Priest was even put on trial, if I remember. This sort of hysteria is, unfortunately, all too common in America. There will always be a need for cultural scapegoats.

[ANDROID697]

Bhakti yoga has the same effect as this plants, a spiritual connection to higher states of conciousness released via your own DMT. It's our God gene,mis-use of this drug is only giving the law to power to criminize it. Treat it with respect, the goverment is already taking away are freedom year by year.

[batteredprimatejohn]

at 5:59 , is she saying that some people never stop tripping?

[mcnowski]

I wish that every video about Salvia on Youtube was this mature and sound. It would make me feel better about being part of the human family.

[fulltruth]

Thank you Kathleen, that was so inspiring.

[Gonzo707]

Excellent. Thanks for upping these.

[PalmTwister]

I appreciate your interest in the "Use", which you have found, shared by the tribes.

New tribes, US tribes of teens, are less spiritual when compared any older tribe. However, all substances start off as a novelty, and later turn into respect. (Not always in the same generation, and not always by the same tribes.)

It is apparent, that this tribe, the teens, need more than awareness. Since awareness only works for those who listen. But than again, those are not the ones with the problems.

[PalmTwister]

Continued...

Who is to say that the tribe which has taught you about it, is not an "Abuser", from the original "Users"? (Not that I believe they are abusing it.)

They have "Regulated", or created a regulation for use. For teens, unfortunately, the law is regulation.

I don't agree with anything natural being illegal. However, I do agree with laws that help prevent abuse. (The law which is in place now, does not prevent abuse, it will only increase abuse.)

What would the tribe do?

[ponyrodgers]

thank you to whoever or whatever's responsible for people like Kathleen Harris being around to discourse so eloquently about this stuff.

[creten69]

your so right we all are on the same living road,if someone wants to know what the plant has to say just think about it.And you wanna know whats happening in the future?just look at whats happening now.Evil is on the elevator going down and good is seeing it in the other car going up.Even if there is no hard evidence of a golden age,one is on the way.

[willwkrueger]

plants are conscious now? sentient too? lets face ur, wat a tripper gets from her plant is much than wat the plant gets from being picked off and consumed whether it is entertainment or the uniquely human and non-plant pursuit of meaning and construction of language of reality

[dinadanna]

can you purchase salvia anywhere in New york City??? if so, where??

[creten69]

ebay

[Bedeekin]

People seem to be upset about the way it is being abused and that it may become illegal because of this. People are enjoying themselves, what is wrong with that? Why do we have to sit there in a state of spiritual soberness? Cannabis, which is illegal is still available so why complain? People are telling people how to do something within the confines of their belief system, which is an ambiguous analogy of a tribal in the first place.

Isn't freedom the ability to do what you choose?

[luckytwentyseven]

abused? theres no video on youtube of anyone "abusing" this drug. ridiculous.

[Bedeekin]

ok touchy, so i forgot to put "abused" in quotation marks myself... I was being ironic...

I'll afford you the same inane complaint....

Drug? This is a herb... not a drug, it's an entheogen. ridiculous.

[Bedeekin]

Anyway i am pro Salvia so why are you having a go at me? picking on a word... lighten up... hang on, are you a female? anyway... Happy new year :)

[Astralnaut]

I agree with you in full.

[digimaton]

"the plant world and the human mind are co-evolving together" isn't that taken from a George Bush speech? Seriously, I accept some of her points but that statement is absurd. Tradition and superstition is not a way forward, surely anyone who is serious about mind/matter development will figure out how to use this for themselves. Entheogens are entheogens, there are more commonalties amongst them than there are differences, just different views on the same secret.

[BRUMARTUBE]

What is sure is that flower plants and insect's mind have co-evolved. Plants have competitively develop strategies for repulsing predators and attracting pollinators. It is not incompatible with Kathleen's point. Personally, I love Salvia Divinorum. I am amazed, to say the least, by her teaching and healing abilities.

[MendelKae]

That is amazing what you say there, it really drawed a line I havent yet made meyself. I always wondered way ayahuasca and mushrooms, both bring me into this collective ant- and/or bee-consciousness, and many people experience this as you propably know. Nice hypothesis. Thank you and best wishes. Mendel

[NikkiXC]

I really hope that people start to understand this true purpose rather then posting videos of them selves abusing this plant.

[tyniehawk]

@NikkiXC The nature of the plant will cause those people to understand what they did. I started doing it like that but after one good time you just don't look at it like a fun drug. It's inevitable that those people will find the true purpose.

[PollockQT]

Before I just thought people who called Salvia a goddess where just so impressed with the intensity of the trip that they idealized it (and it might be true) but now I can't say Salvia is just a "fun" psychedelic.

It's like nothing I've ever experienced, to be part of that whole universe, guided by this mystical power, this omnipresence force that just rules the whole journey.

Even as a strong atheist I can't deny that Salvia may not be just a plant, doesn't even seem from this dimension.

[TEARDUCTER]

@NikkiXC Agreed :)

[NikkiXC]

Buddhist monk on salvia? The 5th precept of Buddhism is not to consume mind altering substances. Also salvia just makes you physically laugh even without visuals, how can you stop that? I believe in the power of this plant but I find it hard to relate it with a spiritual being although I feel is has not evolved by pure chance. I agree that one must only use it with good intentions and with a goal in mind to discover knowledge or clean ones perception.

[triviumcunt]

you are wuite ignorant on this subject, i am reffering to the comment about the "physical laughter without visuals" you have obviously not used this substance and your opinion is not valid on this subject.

[NikkiXC]

Of course it is possible. I have experienced laughter with no visuals. Obviously the potency must not have been that strong enough to produce visuals. Can you possibly say that you have experienced every possible outcome from salvia? Definatly not, so who are you to say what comments are valid and whats not?

[triviumcunt]

i have experienced what you were talking about, but when you smoke it correctly you will understand why i was bothered by your comment, it is extremly potent when used right, sorry for being somewhat of a asshole earlier

[NikkiXC]

No worries ;) Peace!

[fixthatmug]

This is beautiful, we all have the potential to be healers, especially through the learning and development cultivated from teacher plants. Many abuse these sacred and ancient energies, but this woman knows about the power and is trying to do good. All who dabble in altered states, any kind of psychonaut should try to develop this kind of respectful "gift-asking" form when dealing with higher powers. We have much to learn still from this planet and from ourselves. Growth comes from within.

[yinyangaccount]

perhaps some dont get back because they are still mentally digesting things, perhaps depression, perhaps many things...perhaps it opens to some people the inner shaman and they must deal with their karma first before the session can end, and for some people this can take a life time...i may be wrong though... something to think about.