If Eph 2:8 has occurred, we have been saved from OUR SINS for a purpose - to do the good works of God which HE prepares for us to DO. God does not prepare filthy rags for us to do. In this way, we are BEING saved. If we do not bear that good fruit, we will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Jesus said so. Do you believe him?
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ep 2:8-9, NKJV)
I'm surprised that this man would say that the Bible doesn't say that we are saved by faith alone.
The works that we do are evidence that we have truly been born again. Our works do not save us. God did this for us - just as He said in Ephesians 2:8-9.
@drdst17 We don't leave it out, we simply keep it in its context. To say that faith without works is dead is correct. But to say that this is referring to soul salvation is a violation of the text and not the subject of the book.
@ray7685 But you DO take it OUT of context! The doctrine of Sola Fide (Faith Alone) is about DIVORCING one's Faith and one's works from soul salvation! And for one to be "saved", you must possess both FAITH and do WORKS of that Faith!
You cannot divorce these two concepts, because Faith without works is dead and meaningless. So "Faith Alone" is deficient and cannot justify our souls.
@drdst17 You don't find it interesting that Paul doesn't elaborate on what you are saying, and neither does James? Have you done a study on the different meanings of the word 'salvation'? How about the different meanings of the word 'church'? The meaning of these words are determmined by their context. there are different uses of the word salvation in Scripture, and not all refer to soul salvation. So it would be an error to suppose that 'salvation' always refers to the soul.
@drdst17 Acts 15 was the perfect opportunity to make clear the issue of faith and works in terms of salvation. And Peter surely did! These passages are key in ending this issue, but I seldom hear it read when it comes to this issue. Acts15 is the reason why James is not talking about soul salvation. James speaks of a faith that doesn't arise to its intended purpose. That's why it is dead [at the moment]. All of us are guilty of this at one time or another.
@drdst17 We were all born under the 1st Adam, but those who've believed in Christ are now under the 2nd Adam (Christ) positionally. We can't go back and forth between the 1st and 2nd Adam at will -- these are spiritual positions! We didn't get salvation by being good, so we can't lose it by being bad. Salvation, not probation, is what is given to us.
@ray7685 No, we are not under Christ as the 2nd Adam unless we CHOOSE to orient our lives to Him - this is the reason that He came down from Heaven in the first place! Every single one of us is born under the stain of Original Sin - the legacy of our first parents.
Christ came to us in order to reconcile us to God - but only if we CHOOSE this - for God gave us the Free Will to either accept Him or reject Him. How we respond to this will determine our salvation.
@drdst17 I am not a Calvinist. I think you have me confused with someone else. I agree with what you are saying. What I am saying, however, is that our position in Christ (2nd Adam) is permanent once it occurs. Do you agree with this?
@ray7685 Sorry about the misunderstanding, then. Positioning in Christ is permanent only if you continue to accept Him for the rest of your existence. Free Will exists, and we can accept or deny our Lord at any point in our lives. I am a living example of this: I lived as a faithful Christian until I was in my late teens, then turned away from God into Atheism for the next 13 or so years. Only about 3 years ago did I truly accept Christ into my life, and I don't see how I could give him up.
@drdst17 Do you not think that Acts 15 settles the issue of faith and works? And what of the word 'salvation' being defined by its context? Just like to know if you have considered these two situations when resolving the faith and works dilemma.
@drdst17 Do you not think that Acts 15 settles the issue of faith and works? And what of the word 'salvation' being defined by its context? Just like to know if you have considered these two situations when resolving the faith and works dilemma.
The issue was more about what works accompany faith. The Protestants agreed that faith always has works with it, but they objected to faith being placed with the works of the priestly sacraments, and especially the bloodless re-sacrifice of Jesus in the Masse being added to the work of tghe cross. Their faith was in Christ and his death alone, not Christ and the Church's sacraments.
you guys don't get it, works = sacrife,,, when you love God ,good deeds are eforless, beacuse, the spirit lives in you, and you are saved, does a mother works to gain her childrens love? no she does it cause she loves them, does a christian do good deeds to gain salvation? no do it cause they love christ. and apreciate, him diying in the cross, and beating sin, something none of us could do
@albusai I do it 'cause I am a lost sheep seeking my Good Shepherd. I found Him! And I love Him... Look what they (the Son and the Father) did for me (and you). I will do whatever is required, including studying their Holy Words through the Living Bible. Right up until either Judgment day or my last breath, whichever comes first. And, I also have the earnest of (down payment) the Holy Spirit helping me with all things, easy or difficult.
BAPTISM IS A SIGN OF OBEDIENCE & NOT SALVATION 1 Peter 3:20 King James Version
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
Philippians 2:11-13 Work With Fear in God for Your Salvation
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
We must have a saving faith first, if not then it is a dead faith proven by our works. In the St. Joseph catholic bible it states that very fact in James 2:14. Even an atheist can do good things, but he has no saving faith, therefore he is eternally lost. Saving faith saves us from hell because our saving faith cries out to Jesus. When Peter was walking on water toward Jesus, he lost his saving faith for a brief moment and began to drown, but he cried out to Jesus save me, and Jesus saved him.
First off I'm catholic. and I believe Salvation is not through faith alone. it sounds good. but this is not the case. the case is the preacher says this just to attract members that way he gets rich. okay well that's not living like Christ. Christ could careless about being rich. he cares about helping people. so practicing good works is the ultimate key to salvation. also by saying you're saved once is like a slap in the face to Christ. you have to continuously repent and be serious about it.
The key to salvation, faith, not a dead faith, but true active faith and power; any one can say they have faith, and thay do, but is it the faith that saves, Ro: 4:20: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; Ro: 10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. good works is the result of faith,
Ro:1:16: gospel of Christ: it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
What I wonder is if a man accepts the Fathers gift of salvation on his death bed, does he receive salvation? He has no works. I write you not as one to criticize, but I really want to know how the Catholic church feels about this.
What I wonder if if a man accepts the Fathers gift of salvation on his death bed, does he receive salvation? He has no works. I write you not as one to criticize, but I really want to know how the Catholic church feels about this.
@halobenders84 I don't need your opinion or to read any of the Catholic writings in order to simply read the Bible and see how false Catholicism is, nice try..... You ready to see the pope baptize the "aliens" when they come to earth? Anyone who has any true discernment already knows about the Roman Catholic Church and there is enough info out there so if you haven't found out your already spiritually dead....
"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21). Because righteousness cannot come through the Law (through our efforts of merit), the Bible declares that we are justified before God by faith:
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
The Catholic Church is full of Fake Idols!! C'mon think about it, all the saints are white when Scripture comes out of Africa? Pope is God in the flesh? Many problems with Catholic Church, leave NOW and join the true Church, The Body Of Christ!!
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).
The perpetual ridiculous argument. I'm not a Christian in any mainline sense of the word but any dope can see certain things are expected of you in order to receive this salvation. All these people quoting St Paul forget they are quoting a lawyer who is discussing about 3 things at once, Faith, Law, Works.... These matters have been decided by holy Synods, Councils and within the early church itself!! Where's this "faith" that Jesus can shepherd his own church?
Galatians 2.....16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
actually luthers understanding was different it was the RCC that rejected it.... faith is the foundation to your salvation.. the RCC would say you must add works to your salvation to be saved....
If faith alone got you into heaven than satan himself would be in heaven for even the devil believes. Also the devil is not capable of good works, thus the works is the part of the equation that keeps the devil out for no unclean thing can enter heaven. Thus mathematically faith +works = the only way. The Catholic way. I believe We believe.
To think our good works merit anything towards our salvation is a damnable heresy. When Christ said it was finished we are to believe it. Our good works are the fruit of our salvation not the root. True believers works will be judged by the fire to see if we get any rewards. If all the works burn up then we get no rewards but we will be saved thru our faith....ALONE{1 Cor.3:13-15}
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Please reconcile these 2 scriptures.You see, in Christianity we believe that the scriptures do not contradict each other. If they do they can be reconciled with the help of the Holy Ghost and study. In Catholicism you are trained to accept mindless mysteries. :)
@InTheSpirit12 We are saved through faith? Hmm? In the Epistle of James, we read: "Like the body without the spirit is dead, so to faith without works is dead"
In Romans we read " Who(the Lord) will render everyone according to his deeds"
We show our faith and trust in him when we work for him, and we grow stronger for it.
When he said it was finished, he meant HIS work was finished, as in men could now be saved as a result of the Atonement. We still have work to do, to spread His Word.
"Like the body without the spirit is dead, so to faith without works is dead" It simply illustrates an immature faith. When our faith & works come together then our faith is made perfect{Jam 2:22}.
Believers works will be judged to determine rewards or lose of rewards{1Co 3:15}. NOT to see if they merited salvation. For salvation is given freely to all who believe the gospel{Rom 3:24}.
"Men could be saved" - Not biblical bible says *He will* save His people{Matt 1:21}.
@InTheSpirit12 Yes, faith is not complete without works, if you believe in Christ, you will do his work, if you do not his work however, you have not faith in him.
That's an interesting way to put it. Faith is the key to good works.
Like the person you're talking to though I also believe that Salvation is by Faith Alone. In a Christian's Life, Faith & Works go hand-in-hand in order to be a productive believer. To prove others that you're saved, opposed to just claiming it, works proves Faith.
However, to be Saved, It cannot be both; it's either 1 or the other bc the bible is clear: we can't earn it (Romans 4:1-4).
Well, I'm not saying that we should try to earn our way to Heaven, I don't believe that. I believe, though, that we do need to at least try to do his will and try to be righteous, because say there is a person who, of his own free will, really wanted to please the Lord and was working really hard for him, and another who would do a good work here and there, but lived a widely lazy life, why would they go to the same place, unless they try real hard? I think Christ wants us to work real hard.
We should work harder bc what Christ did deserves no less than utter thankfulness and love which will sure a desire to live for him and not for self.
However, if you believe that works are also needed for salvation then that is bring back again, the curse which in Peter's words, neither they nor their fathers are able to bear (Acts 15:10).
That's why we believe Salvation is Free. Yes we should work really hard, but not to be saved, but because we're saved.
It's hard for me to explain, salvation comes free, but me being LDS, I believe in the three degrees of glory, Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms, which the ones in the Celestial Kingdom were the good, faithful, baptized, working ones go, Terrestrial Kingdom, where the righteous, but unbaptized, faithful ones go, and the Telestial Kingdom for those who believed in Christ, but were wicked in their hearts. I don't work for salvation, but to prove to Christ and the World that I believe.
I studied with the LDS before, but that was a while ago. We talkd and debated on that issue whether we should be baptized, and whether one can lose salvation which they also believed and I don't. They did share with me the three heavens which you've talked about.
Since the book or text study (2nd service on sunday) I've promised to read the BoM, but haven't been doing that lately. I should bc I promised them.
@rrgison Well, no, the only way to lose your salvation is to have a special knowledge of the Holy Spirit, then deny it, that is the unforgivable sin, next to murder, and the only way to lose your salvation, in which you are condemned to wander the in the Outer Darkness, where there is unimaginable darkness.
I think the fact that 1 can still lose it, is not really salvation at all to me bc what does Salvation mean? Deliverance from the consequences of Sin. The person is still in danger of damnation so its never salvation to begin with. I don't think Christian can ever commit murder either bc of the Holy Spirit that is inside of them (1 Joh 3:3-9).
@rrgison I'm not saying that you'll lose salvation for murder, we believe that you will go to the Telestial Kingdom. But denying the Holy Ghost is to deny Christ and that is the only way to lose salvation, it requires a very special knowledge of Christ as your Savior, God as your Father and the Holy Spirit as your guide, to deny that would be hard considering what said person has witnessed, this won't happen to just the average joe.
I see now what you're saying. I can also see how one can lose salvaiton or I think, never had it when 1 is given a special knowledge. A personal revelation of who God is, Jesus Christ, and His Gospel
Bibically that may equal that to the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit in which miraculous signs are done, and unmistakenly its from God but to dismiss it as though its false, is Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. That is only committed as an unbeliever (Hebrews 2:3-4, 6:4-6).
@masterskyrunner To part imputation, our sins are imputed to him; his righteousness is imputed to us. This is why we are saved by what he did, Ro: 1:17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, the just shall live by faith. Ro: 3:21: But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, Ro: 4:6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, is that plain enough for you,
Do you believe that God will judge you upon your works, good and evil, that were unrepentant. I do. I also believe that the way you displayed your faith in this life will also play a role in judgment.
@masterskyrunner Ac17: 31:Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will JUDGE THE WORLD in righteousness. Heb11: 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was PAST age, BECAUSE SHE FOUND HIM FAITHFUL WHO HAD PROMISSEDHeb11: 6: But without FAITH it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God MUST BELIEVE that he is,
@hoffabrando Why do people seem to think that I believe that you NEED works to be saved? Works are a product of faith, faith is the manufacturer, what good is a manufacturer that doesn't produce anything? Without faith it is impossible to please him, in that sense, you can't work your way to Heaven, but worked through faith. What good is faith not proved?
That is what James is addressing, dead faith some one saying they have faith but denying that faith without the response that is needed when, one filled with the holy spirit,
James is not saying we need the merits of works but the presents of works, and what works is he talking about, it’s the fruit of the spirit. And what is that Ga: 5:22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
James is saying that without the spirit of god, and the fruits (works) of the spirit of god in you, then you have a dead faith, and you are still in your sins,
@hoffabrando Yeah, its just i believe that you've gotta work for Christ to prove your faith; if works are a product of faith, then we'd better show it.
@masterskyrunner Ro: 12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 2Co: 13:5: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?M't:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
(161) "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation ...therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification...(162) Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man...
The Catechism also talks about our response to faith, (sections 161-162 and 1997-2000) which is to go out into the world and do as Jesus would have us do. Which is what we call Charity
Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. (Jn 4:14; 7:38-39.)
Contrary to Protestant myth and anti-Catholicism, the Catholic Church doesn't teach that one is saved by works apart from preceding and enabling grace, but that faith and works are inseparable, as in James 1 and 2. This heresy of which Catholicism is often charged, was in fact condemned by the Catholic Church at the Second Council of Orange in 529 A.D
It is known as Pelagianism, the view that man could save himself by his own natural efforts, without the necessary supernatural grace from God. A more moderate view, Semi-Pelagianism, was likewise condemned. To continue to accuse the Catholic Church of this heresy suggests a manifest ignorance of the history of theology, as well as the clear Catholic teaching of the Council of Trent (1545-63), available for all to see. Yet the myth is strangely prevalent.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
Joh:6:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
God. Ro:12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of .your mind, 1Jo:4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
@hoffabrando Matt. 7:21. "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven".
Righteousness is the end to be obtained, and the law of God is the standard. "The law worketh wrath," because "all have sinned," and "the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience." How shall we become doers of the law, and thus escape wrath, or the curse? The answer is, "The righteous shall live by faith." By faith, not by works, we pt1
become doers of the law. "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Rom.10:10. That no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident. From what does it appear?--From this,--that "the just shall live by faith." If righteousness came by works, then it would not be by faith; "if by grace, then is it no more of works; otherwise grace is pt2
no more grace." Rom.11:6. "To him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom.4:4,5. There is no exception, no half-way working. It is not said that some of the just shall live by faith, or that they shall live by pt3
faith and works, but, simply, "the just shall live by faith," and that proves that it is not by their own works. All of the just are made and kept just by faith alone. This is because the law is so holy. It is greater than can be done by man; only Divine power can accomplish it; so by faith we receive the Lord Jesus, and He lives the perfect law in us. Pt4
After listening to this video, I'm almost inclined to agree with the Council of Trent banning private ownership and interpretation of scripture without a license. There are lots of verses in the New Testament that discuss faith and faith alone, just as there are many that discuss the role of works. To deny either is ridiculous. The issue is how to interpret those scriptures in their context and relative to other scriptures..
"Good works (as they are called) are required, not as if they had any thing of merit in them, not as if they could of themselves turn away God's anger for our sins, or purchase heaven for us, but because they are the means, under God's grace, of strengthening and showing forth that holy principle which God implants in the heart, and without which (as the text tells us) we cannot see Him"
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).
"Faith alone" is acceptable in catholic soteriology but it must be fully explained: We are given saving faith in water baptism, and that "faith alone" is nurtured by the Sacraments and doing good works. In comparison, Evangelicals use "faith alone" in an isolated / exclusive sense, but catholics use it in an inclusive / un-isolated sense.
"Works" is a result of our faith and is performed out of our love for Jesus. It comes as an outpouring of our spiritual gifts after we are born again, born of the Holy Spirit. It is not a striving, it is a blessing and privilege to serve where He leads us.
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Rom 2:7
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Gal 6 the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
I've often wondered if a person who lives in an area of the world who has never been exposed to the teachings of Christianity (thus does not believe in Jesus/no faith), can be saved? Think about it. How do we as Christians address this problem? It is said that in order to be saved, we must have faith in Jesus as our lord and Saviour, but how can a person have faith if they never even heard of Jesus?
... and if you cant have faith without good works, according to James 2:20, your faith is dead. If your faith is dead, then how can you be saved? Remember, you need faith to be saved.
DictaorStatus - Also you cannot do good works without faith. Some Catholics believe that if they do good things, then they will go to heaven. This alone without faith in Jesus, is not enough. btw..these people are misguided Catholics, because the Catholic Church teaches that you must have faith AND good works. As stated earlier, they go hand in hand. The faith produces/encourages good works (by product). So in summary, faith alone does not save you, because withouth deeds, faith is dead.
I just might sound like a catholic BUT.. What james says is that a person with faith will work because he have faith. So. you work because you have faith, not because you re saved. The word "Save" in our protestant vocabulary is a word we really like to use. If you have faith, you better do the work. THAT is what james is saying. You can say LORD, LORD as much as you want but you better act like him. Their is no piggy back ride for your salvation.
If there are no works then the faith one claims to have is not faith at all. James addressed this issue almost 2000 yrs ago and still mankind just doesnt get it, thats why the arguement rages on.
Faith without works is DEAD...can dead faith save anybody.
if a person is working to get saved, or working in order to remain saved. Then chances are that they are Lost and still hellbound. Reason I say this is becuase they are not truly trusting on Christ's finished work on the cross and are completely disregarding his grace. The bible makes it clear that salvation is a free gift, not a loan. and that Eternal life is not temporary. and according to scriptures- if you truly believe in Christ then you have eternal life already as a current possesion.
Hebrews 10:26-27 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." Anyone can say I have faith or I believe in Jesus but faith without works is dead. James 2:26, The new law convenant that Christ brought is to love your neighbor as yourself but love God first. Read the Bible reject false words from preachers!
the Thief on the cross was saved simply becuase he truly believed in Jesus. like i said before you cant be saved by works.
when james was saying that Faith without works is dead- he is simply saying that a person that was truly saved- will work becuase they have saving faith. works is just a byproduct of having saving faith. you dont work in order to be saved, rather you work becuase your saved. becuase the Holy Spirit begins a work in you that he promises to finish until day of redemption
DictatorStatus - I agree with Stamosenterprises. I agree with you also with one exception. You seem to believe that the Catholic faith believes that it is the act of the good works that saves us. It is not. It is our faith that Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour. Performing good works is a necessary byproduct, but it is necessary. If you are not performing good works, then you truly don't have faith. IE: You cant' have faith without good works. They go hand in hand.
When will you learn about our Religion before you post your dumb comments, if we didn't believe in Jesus, why do we say we believe in Jesus Christ? Stop being so ingnorant and stop reading chick tracts. Learn Catholicism from a Catholic. I suggest you repent and be baptized, because I have Jesus.
Works is not necessary, but repentance to salvation through Psalms 51:17 should obviously bring about works.
It is by grace we are saved through faith.
How are we saved?
We are saved by the grace of God for through repentance which is our only sacrifice of Psalms 51:17 we are sacrificing in the ashes of a much older sacrifice by Jesus on the cross.
Jesus saves & no work we perform can be added to it.
Repentance & grace should bring about works of God through us.
You aren't saved by works lest anyone should boast. Even faith does not save.
The message is repent and be baptized. Repent means look at Psalms 51:17 and be baptized means be identified in Jesus Christ for it is by grace that you are saved.
It is in the Bible that by grace you are saved. Jesus died for sins and thus it is the grace of God or Jesus death on the cross that saves.
I hope you aren't judged according to your works. You can't stand before a righteous God that way.
When the devil claims you as 1 who follows in his works, I hope that you have 1 rise in your defense who bought & paid for you with His blood.
That person will also rise up to take the deed to this world & He will judge it by bringing forth a lake of fire from out of its bowels. Meanwhile the scapegoat for your sins, if you accept His gift, is preparing another place. It'll be better.
When you say faith without works is dead you are judging what are the criteria for salvation. I think you are accurate that faith without works is dead. You are inaccurate if you think you are proving what saves.
The question is what saves. Faith and repentance should produce works or the faith and repentance is in question.
Jesus' death saves. You are saved by grace through faith. That also is biblical.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. - Revelation 20: 12.
Rev. 20:12,15 "dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works...whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Don't trust your works Mysteriummaenigma & DavidVelezPerez because your works condemn you. You don't do anything for your salvation other than repent of your sins.
Jesus works out your salvation. John 14:6 "Jesus said, 'I am the way, the truth, & life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'"
We believe Jesus is the way to God. But we do not believe you can go to Heaven with Faith Alone. You need works too. We do not believe we can work our way into Heaven. And is says in the bible NOT by Faith Alone (James 2:14-26)
James isn't saying works save you. James is saying true faith produces works, thus like a behaviorist a person sees faith by works. It's Christ Jesus working in you.
Paul says you aren't saved by works lest you boast, but then Paul says you aren't saved by faith though that be the instrument that gains Jesus grace.
You're saved by the grace of God. That is because Jesus is the way to God & the way provided is a sacrifice. Your sacrifice is your sin per Psalms 51:17 but Jesus blood saves.
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"- James 2:14
Faith Alone can't save you either. We need both. Catholics do not say we can work our way into Hea...you know what? Just watch the video, before you comment, please.
Be careful not to stand on something else other than the rock of your salvation. Do you know what the rock of your salvation is?
Peter said some words & Jesus said that Peter's words would be used to build a church. The people of God are the people of God based on what they stand or speak on (behavior).
Jesus' death on the cross is enough for salvation. Still belief to repentance & faith should produce works so get out there & work. The world could use it.
I think what he is trying to say though is that works shouldnt be the thing that defines you, if you do good works, yet dont believe in Jesus then those works wont save you. The works should be given up to Jesus, and they should never be used to make one personally feel better. All good in the world comes from Jesus.
Yet, what about the people who dont believe in jesus and yet do good works...I dont understand how they can perform works if their hearts have not changed?
Works don't save anyone unless you speak of the work of Jesus on the cross for mankind.
If you don't know of Jesus there is self-knowledge that should bring Psalms 51:17 which is the repentance of sin & the humility of man for their actions.
Who do you think doesn't sin? The Bible says, "none." I agree with it. The righteousness of man is basically filthy rags.
People behave due to their conditioning. We categorize things as good or bad, but you are the summation of all your behavior.
we are saved by faith through grace not by works less any man shall boast, and no were saved by babtizm doesnt meantion babtizm around eph 2:8-9 ,even roman 10 :9-10 tell us how we are saved by cofessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus and beliving in our heart that Jesus died for us and rose again from the dead, taking sripture out of contex you can get many weird doctrines, but it is by faith through grace as the scripture declairs through the bible.
I will agree to disagree with you faith it is to be saved and after faith' weare His workman ship created on to good work which he has before ordain that we should walk in them, though babtism is a inward sign in what you already belive, babtism nor does not that save you. john 3 3-5 tells us of a spirituaul new birth, you must be born again . romans10 9-10 tells you how
dippydoo102 - The original Churches, Catholic and Orthodox disagree with you. Nowhere in the bible it says that faith alone is is enough. Sola fide is unbiblical.
Faith and works are both necessary for salvation.
24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24
Catholic church think baptism is necessary for salvation. However, baptism itself is not enough. It is possible to loose salvation after baptism by vliolating God's commands.
romans 5:1 says we are Justified made rightous by faith no were in scripture can you work for Heaven, you would be like the ones that built the tower of babblei n the old testement, trying to get to God on there own merritsor works,And in collosians He took and paid for the ten commandments we couldnt keep them any ways that iwas the reason for the cross He pais the price for all so we in turn 2 cor 5 :17-21 we are new creations in christ , read that he reconciled us to Him
Well, I love 2 parts ... all the faith and works he usually mentions, and the part where he mentions, and I agree, all the parts of the Bible that mention being judged on judgement day, do not mention being judged by faith, only works (of course which faith is a part of).
Whooo hooo. Great video. Everything by John is great. Simple, easy to understand, biblical...and true!! : )
I like the part of the video where he says James 2:24 is the only place in Scripture that mention faith alone, next to each other, side by side ... and it's to say that we are NOT saved by faith alone. Period. I guess that's why the invented doctrine of faith alone only comes about after the 1500's, and never heard of by the earliest Christians.
As a consequence he stresses that a faith which does not affect life is not saving faith; hence, his emphasis on works. Actually, this is quite close to Paul's understanding. For Paul, faith is the entrusting of one's whole life to God through Christ, with the result that one's life becomes renewed with the " fruit of the Spirit" (Gal.5:22).
Faith is a response to grace. Good works are also a response to grace. Since grace is what saves us, both faith and works are efficacious to our salvation. Just as lack of faith is a rejection of grace, evil deeds are also a rejection of God's grace. This is why sin threatens salvation and Paul warns against sin to all the Chrisitian communities to who he writes. The entire Scriptures testify to this, not only a couple of verses.
James and Paul differ in their views on the saving significance of faith and works.Paul states, "A man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law"(Rom.3:28), and James says,"A man is justified by works,and not by faith only"(James.2:19).A closer reading of the two,however,reveals that they differ more in their definition of faith than in its essence.James writes to readers who are inclined to interpret faith as mere intellectual acknowledgment(James 2:19).
I would argue that both Paul and James have a very Catholic understanding of faith and that the definitions do not differ at all. The definition of faith that you hold is quite different Luther's understanding and that is because Luther's understanding of faith alone is violently contrary to Scripture. Protestantism, however, is unable to relinquish the doctrine of faith alone and has thus changed the definition of faith so that it encompasses the Catholic understanding as the Bible teaches.
For starters, he had to call the Epistle of James an "epistle of straw" and call Matthew, Mark, and Luke "lesser gospels" in a effort to support his belief.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by GRACE you have been saved, through FAITH and this not from yourselves, its is the gift of God--not by WORKS, so that no one can boast.
Indeed. We do not earn God's grace. We can only receive the gift. However, as some protestants would say that grace can only be received through faith, Catholics say that grace can be received through faith, good works, sacraments, and ways only known to God for grace is infinite. The Scriptures testify to this quite cleary. If you would like a deeper understanding, go to my myspace page and read the 4 part blog titled "Salvation Controvercy."
I'm not sure. Someone marked his comments as spam. I then marked them as not spam. Several comments he/she made was removed by author do to duplication of comments. But the comments not removed should be visible. Let me know if the problem persists.
"we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,"
No different than the "contradiction" of Scripture. The Catholic position is the same as Scripture teaches: We are saved by grace through the redemptive work of Christ. That grace is received primarily through faith, good works, and the Sacraments. No contradiction there.
If grace is received through good works, and the Sacraments? Then how can you explain these verses, or the entire book of Hebrews.
Romans 11:6-7
"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Well, given the context of Romans 11, I would say that Paul is discussing the works of the Old Covenant Law. He is saying that it was not in code of the Sinai Covenant in which they are saved, but by the grace of God. In the Ephesians passage Paul is clearly that it is by God's grace that we are saved and that human effort cannot be the cause of our salvation. However, these pasages do not contradict my statement. And Hebrews is very sacramental in nature. I will email you a link that is helpful
Obedience to the law has nothing to do with NT salvation.
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
I can't believe that you would say that Hebrews is "very sacramental". It is the most anti-sacramental book in the NT.
Perhaps you do not understand the Sacraments and that is how you do not see the connection in Hebrews? If you google Agape Bible Study and go to their study on Hebrews, that is an excellent place to go. I would say that obedience to Law does have say in ones salvation. See Mt 7:21-23 and Romans 2:12-24
I understand the sacraments. I was raised in a Catholic family and attended Catholic school. However, I did not know Jesus until I studied the Word of God, apart from the traditions of men. My Catholic friend, you are guilty of committing "dead works" that are the invention of a political machine in Rome.
Your predicament is described in Hebrews chapter 8 & 9. "For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
And the passage that you quote pierces near the core of Catholic belief, yet you do not know how or why. Nor do you even recognize the close proximity. I am sure of it, you left a faith that you did not understand.
I understand the church very well. In fact my understanding of Catholic dogma drove me to scripture to see if these things were true. I reasoned with God as I read His word and it was clear that His work was finished on the cross not at the mass.
"And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God"
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If Eph 2:8 has occurred, we have been saved from OUR SINS for a purpose - to do the good works of God which HE prepares for us to DO. God does not prepare filthy rags for us to do. In this way, we are BEING saved. If we do not bear that good fruit, we will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Jesus said so. Do you believe him?
StringPlunker 3 weeks ago
Catholics do believe in Faith and Works not Faith Alone (Protestant) or Works alone. Please correct your teachings.
talusan909 2 months ago
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"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ep 2:8-9, NKJV)
I'm surprised that this man would say that the Bible doesn't say that we are saved by faith alone.
The works that we do are evidence that we have truly been born again. Our works do not save us. God did this for us - just as He said in Ephesians 2:8-9.
edadan2009 4 months ago
Faith without Works is Dead: Gospel of James.
Convenient that the Protestants left that one out. But that is typical of the heretical mind.
drdst17 5 months ago
@drdst17 We don't leave it out, we simply keep it in its context. To say that faith without works is dead is correct. But to say that this is referring to soul salvation is a violation of the text and not the subject of the book.
ray7685 4 months ago
@ray7685 But you DO take it OUT of context! The doctrine of Sola Fide (Faith Alone) is about DIVORCING one's Faith and one's works from soul salvation! And for one to be "saved", you must possess both FAITH and do WORKS of that Faith!
You cannot divorce these two concepts, because Faith without works is dead and meaningless. So "Faith Alone" is deficient and cannot justify our souls.
God Bless.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 You don't find it interesting that Paul doesn't elaborate on what you are saying, and neither does James? Have you done a study on the different meanings of the word 'salvation'? How about the different meanings of the word 'church'? The meaning of these words are determmined by their context. there are different uses of the word salvation in Scripture, and not all refer to soul salvation. So it would be an error to suppose that 'salvation' always refers to the soul.
ray7685 4 months ago
@drdst17 Acts 15 was the perfect opportunity to make clear the issue of faith and works in terms of salvation. And Peter surely did! These passages are key in ending this issue, but I seldom hear it read when it comes to this issue. Acts15 is the reason why James is not talking about soul salvation. James speaks of a faith that doesn't arise to its intended purpose. That's why it is dead [at the moment]. All of us are guilty of this at one time or another.
ray7685 4 months ago
@drdst17 We were all born under the 1st Adam, but those who've believed in Christ are now under the 2nd Adam (Christ) positionally. We can't go back and forth between the 1st and 2nd Adam at will -- these are spiritual positions! We didn't get salvation by being good, so we can't lose it by being bad. Salvation, not probation, is what is given to us.
ray7685 4 months ago
@ray7685 No, we are not under Christ as the 2nd Adam unless we CHOOSE to orient our lives to Him - this is the reason that He came down from Heaven in the first place! Every single one of us is born under the stain of Original Sin - the legacy of our first parents.
Christ came to us in order to reconcile us to God - but only if we CHOOSE this - for God gave us the Free Will to either accept Him or reject Him. How we respond to this will determine our salvation.
TULIP Calvinism is pure heresy
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 I am not a Calvinist. I think you have me confused with someone else. I agree with what you are saying. What I am saying, however, is that our position in Christ (2nd Adam) is permanent once it occurs. Do you agree with this?
ray7685 4 months ago
@ray7685 Sorry about the misunderstanding, then. Positioning in Christ is permanent only if you continue to accept Him for the rest of your existence. Free Will exists, and we can accept or deny our Lord at any point in our lives. I am a living example of this: I lived as a faithful Christian until I was in my late teens, then turned away from God into Atheism for the next 13 or so years. Only about 3 years ago did I truly accept Christ into my life, and I don't see how I could give him up.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 Do you not think that Acts 15 settles the issue of faith and works? And what of the word 'salvation' being defined by its context? Just like to know if you have considered these two situations when resolving the faith and works dilemma.
ray7685 4 months ago
@drdst17 Do you not think that Acts 15 settles the issue of faith and works? And what of the word 'salvation' being defined by its context? Just like to know if you have considered these two situations when resolving the faith and works dilemma.
ray7685 4 months ago
The issue was more about what works accompany faith. The Protestants agreed that faith always has works with it, but they objected to faith being placed with the works of the priestly sacraments, and especially the bloodless re-sacrifice of Jesus in the Masse being added to the work of tghe cross. Their faith was in Christ and his death alone, not Christ and the Church's sacraments.
psalmblues 5 months ago
Old man who know nothing!
elazar79 5 months ago
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ThomasWinkworth 6 months ago
you guys don't get it, works = sacrife,,, when you love God ,good deeds are eforless, beacuse, the spirit lives in you, and you are saved, does a mother works to gain her childrens love? no she does it cause she loves them, does a christian do good deeds to gain salvation? no do it cause they love christ. and apreciate, him diying in the cross, and beating sin, something none of us could do
albusai 7 months ago 2
@albusai I do it 'cause I am a lost sheep seeking my Good Shepherd. I found Him! And I love Him... Look what they (the Son and the Father) did for me (and you). I will do whatever is required, including studying their Holy Words through the Living Bible. Right up until either Judgment day or my last breath, whichever comes first. And, I also have the earnest of (down payment) the Holy Spirit helping me with all things, easy or difficult.
I expect all kinds of sufferings (2 Cor. 1:7).
SwordofSpirit1 4 months ago
So, according to Protestants, anyone is saved by solely "believing"... huh... how easy and fake.
ChrisDaron 9 months ago
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WE ARE SAVE BY GRACE ALONE
BAPTISM IS A SIGN OF OBEDIENCE & NOT SALVATION 1 Peter 3:20 King James Version
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
lakayna 11 months ago
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lakayna 11 months ago
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lakayna 11 months ago
Philippians 2:11-13 Work With Fear in God for Your Salvation
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
SwordofSpirit1 1 year ago 2
God message. That's the way i see it in the Bible too.
rossdaboss1959 1 year ago
We must have a saving faith first, if not then it is a dead faith proven by our works. In the St. Joseph catholic bible it states that very fact in James 2:14. Even an atheist can do good things, but he has no saving faith, therefore he is eternally lost. Saving faith saves us from hell because our saving faith cries out to Jesus. When Peter was walking on water toward Jesus, he lost his saving faith for a brief moment and began to drown, but he cried out to Jesus save me, and Jesus saved him.
bornagainsaint1 1 year ago
First off I'm catholic. and I believe Salvation is not through faith alone. it sounds good. but this is not the case. the case is the preacher says this just to attract members that way he gets rich. okay well that's not living like Christ. Christ could careless about being rich. he cares about helping people. so practicing good works is the ultimate key to salvation. also by saying you're saved once is like a slap in the face to Christ. you have to continuously repent and be serious about it.
FallofDarkness55 1 year ago
@FallofDarkness55
The key to salvation, faith, not a dead faith, but true active faith and power; any one can say they have faith, and thay do, but is it the faith that saves, Ro: 4:20: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; Ro: 10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. good works is the result of faith,
Ro:1:16: gospel of Christ: it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
hoffabrando 1 year ago
What I wonder is if a man accepts the Fathers gift of salvation on his death bed, does he receive salvation? He has no works. I write you not as one to criticize, but I really want to know how the Catholic church feels about this.
boat027 1 year ago
What I wonder if if a man accepts the Fathers gift of salvation on his death bed, does he receive salvation? He has no works. I write you not as one to criticize, but I really want to know how the Catholic church feels about this.
boat027 1 year ago
What I wonder is if a man accepts Christs gift of Salvation, is he saved. He has no works right?
boat027 1 year ago
@halobenders84 I don't need your opinion or to read any of the Catholic writings in order to simply read the Bible and see how false Catholicism is, nice try..... You ready to see the pope baptize the "aliens" when they come to earth? Anyone who has any true discernment already knows about the Roman Catholic Church and there is enough info out there so if you haven't found out your already spiritually dead....
RicoRicanNYC 1 year ago
"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21). Because righteousness cannot come through the Law (through our efforts of merit), the Bible declares that we are justified before God by faith:
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
Bible or Man
greatestgiftis 1 year ago
"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21).
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).
greatestgiftis 1 year ago
The Catholic Church is full of Fake Idols!! C'mon think about it, all the saints are white when Scripture comes out of Africa? Pope is God in the flesh? Many problems with Catholic Church, leave NOW and join the true Church, The Body Of Christ!!
RicoRicanNYC 1 year ago
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
mindquest1 1 year ago
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"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
The perpetual ridiculous argument. I'm not a Christian in any mainline sense of the word but any dope can see certain things are expected of you in order to receive this salvation. All these people quoting St Paul forget they are quoting a lawyer who is discussing about 3 things at once, Faith, Law, Works.... These matters have been decided by holy Synods, Councils and within the early church itself!! Where's this "faith" that Jesus can shepherd his own church?
N1k1mon 1 year ago
Galatians 2.....16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
actually luthers understanding was different it was the RCC that rejected it.... faith is the foundation to your salvation.. the RCC would say you must add works to your salvation to be saved....
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
If faith alone got you into heaven than satan himself would be in heaven for even the devil believes. Also the devil is not capable of good works, thus the works is the part of the equation that keeps the devil out for no unclean thing can enter heaven. Thus mathematically faith +works = the only way. The Catholic way. I believe We believe.
Dreamsex101 1 year ago
To think our good works merit anything towards our salvation is a damnable heresy. When Christ said it was finished we are to believe it. Our good works are the fruit of our salvation not the root. True believers works will be judged by the fire to see if we get any rewards. If all the works burn up then we get no rewards but we will be saved thru our faith....ALONE{1 Cor.3:13-15}
InTheSpirit12 1 year ago 2
@InTheSpirit12 -- "A man is justified by works and not by faith alone" James 2 24
HouseHaunter484 1 year ago
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@HouseHaunter484
James 2 24
"A man is justified by works and not by faith alone" James 2 24
Romans 3:28
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Please reconcile these 2 scriptures.You see, in Christianity we believe that the scriptures do not contradict each other. If they do they can be reconciled with the help of the Holy Ghost and study. In Catholicism you are trained to accept mindless mysteries. :)
InTheSpirit12 1 year ago
@InTheSpirit12 We are saved through faith? Hmm? In the Epistle of James, we read: "Like the body without the spirit is dead, so to faith without works is dead"
In Romans we read " Who(the Lord) will render everyone according to his deeds"
We show our faith and trust in him when we work for him, and we grow stronger for it.
When he said it was finished, he meant HIS work was finished, as in men could now be saved as a result of the Atonement. We still have work to do, to spread His Word.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
"Like the body without the spirit is dead, so to faith without works is dead" It simply illustrates an immature faith. When our faith & works come together then our faith is made perfect{Jam 2:22}.
Believers works will be judged to determine rewards or lose of rewards{1Co 3:15}. NOT to see if they merited salvation. For salvation is given freely to all who believe the gospel{Rom 3:24}.
"Men could be saved" - Not biblical bible says *He will* save His people{Matt 1:21}.
InTheSpirit12 1 year ago
@InTheSpirit12 Yes, faith is not complete without works, if you believe in Christ, you will do his work, if you do not his work however, you have not faith in him.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
That's an interesting way to put it. Faith is the key to good works.
Like the person you're talking to though I also believe that Salvation is by Faith Alone. In a Christian's Life, Faith & Works go hand-in-hand in order to be a productive believer. To prove others that you're saved, opposed to just claiming it, works proves Faith.
However, to be Saved, It cannot be both; it's either 1 or the other bc the bible is clear: we can't earn it (Romans 4:1-4).
rrgison 1 year ago
Well, I'm not saying that we should try to earn our way to Heaven, I don't believe that. I believe, though, that we do need to at least try to do his will and try to be righteous, because say there is a person who, of his own free will, really wanted to please the Lord and was working really hard for him, and another who would do a good work here and there, but lived a widely lazy life, why would they go to the same place, unless they try real hard? I think Christ wants us to work real hard.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
We should work harder bc what Christ did deserves no less than utter thankfulness and love which will sure a desire to live for him and not for self.
However, if you believe that works are also needed for salvation then that is bring back again, the curse which in Peter's words, neither they nor their fathers are able to bear (Acts 15:10).
That's why we believe Salvation is Free. Yes we should work really hard, but not to be saved, but because we're saved.
rrgison 1 year ago
It's hard for me to explain, salvation comes free, but me being LDS, I believe in the three degrees of glory, Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms, which the ones in the Celestial Kingdom were the good, faithful, baptized, working ones go, Terrestrial Kingdom, where the righteous, but unbaptized, faithful ones go, and the Telestial Kingdom for those who believed in Christ, but were wicked in their hearts. I don't work for salvation, but to prove to Christ and the World that I believe.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
I studied with the LDS before, but that was a while ago. We talkd and debated on that issue whether we should be baptized, and whether one can lose salvation which they also believed and I don't. They did share with me the three heavens which you've talked about.
Since the book or text study (2nd service on sunday) I've promised to read the BoM, but haven't been doing that lately. I should bc I promised them.
rrgison 1 year ago
@rrgison Well, no, the only way to lose your salvation is to have a special knowledge of the Holy Spirit, then deny it, that is the unforgivable sin, next to murder, and the only way to lose your salvation, in which you are condemned to wander the in the Outer Darkness, where there is unimaginable darkness.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
I think the fact that 1 can still lose it, is not really salvation at all to me bc what does Salvation mean? Deliverance from the consequences of Sin. The person is still in danger of damnation so its never salvation to begin with. I don't think Christian can ever commit murder either bc of the Holy Spirit that is inside of them (1 Joh 3:3-9).
rrgison 1 year ago
@rrgison I'm not saying that you'll lose salvation for murder, we believe that you will go to the Telestial Kingdom. But denying the Holy Ghost is to deny Christ and that is the only way to lose salvation, it requires a very special knowledge of Christ as your Savior, God as your Father and the Holy Spirit as your guide, to deny that would be hard considering what said person has witnessed, this won't happen to just the average joe.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
I see now what you're saying. I can also see how one can lose salvaiton or I think, never had it when 1 is given a special knowledge. A personal revelation of who God is, Jesus Christ, and His Gospel
Bibically that may equal that to the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit in which miraculous signs are done, and unmistakenly its from God but to dismiss it as though its false, is Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. That is only committed as an unbeliever (Hebrews 2:3-4, 6:4-6).
rrgison 1 year ago
@rrgison I'll need to get going but have a great thanksgiving
God bless!
rrgison 1 year ago
@rrgison Right.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner I mean unlikely.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner To part imputation, our sins are imputed to him; his righteousness is imputed to us. This is why we are saved by what he did, Ro: 1:17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, the just shall live by faith. Ro: 3:21: But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, Ro: 4:6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, is that plain enough for you,
hoffabrando 1 year ago
@hoffabrando Yes, I believe that.
Do you believe that God will judge you upon your works, good and evil, that were unrepentant. I do. I also believe that the way you displayed your faith in this life will also play a role in judgment.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner Ac17: 31:Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will JUDGE THE WORLD in righteousness. Heb11: 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was PAST age, BECAUSE SHE FOUND HIM FAITHFUL WHO HAD PROMISSEDHeb11: 6: But without FAITH it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God MUST BELIEVE that he is,
hoffabrando 1 year ago
@hoffabrando Why do people seem to think that I believe that you NEED works to be saved? Works are a product of faith, faith is the manufacturer, what good is a manufacturer that doesn't produce anything? Without faith it is impossible to please him, in that sense, you can't work your way to Heaven, but worked through faith. What good is faith not proved?
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
That is what James is addressing, dead faith some one saying they have faith but denying that faith without the response that is needed when, one filled with the holy spirit,
hoffabrando 1 year ago
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hoffabrando 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner
James is not saying we need the merits of works but the presents of works, and what works is he talking about, it’s the fruit of the spirit. And what is that Ga: 5:22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
James is saying that without the spirit of god, and the fruits (works) of the spirit of god in you, then you have a dead faith, and you are still in your sins,
hoffabrando 1 year ago
@hoffabrando Yeah, its just i believe that you've gotta work for Christ to prove your faith; if works are a product of faith, then we'd better show it.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner Ro: 12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 2Co: 13:5: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?M't:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
hoffabrando 1 year ago
@hoffabrando Yes, I think we concur here.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
Sections 161-162 the Catechism says:
(161) "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation ...therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification...(162) Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man...
The Catechism also talks about our response to faith, (sections 161-162 and 1997-2000) which is to go out into the world and do as Jesus would have us do. Which is what we call Charity
martlut 1 year ago
Section 1996 of the Catechism says:
Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. (Jn 4:14; 7:38-39.)
martlut 1 year ago
Contrary to Protestant myth and anti-Catholicism, the Catholic Church doesn't teach that one is saved by works apart from preceding and enabling grace, but that faith and works are inseparable, as in James 1 and 2. This heresy of which Catholicism is often charged, was in fact condemned by the Catholic Church at the Second Council of Orange in 529 A.D
martlut 1 year ago
It is known as Pelagianism, the view that man could save himself by his own natural efforts, without the necessary supernatural grace from God. A more moderate view, Semi-Pelagianism, was likewise condemned. To continue to accuse the Catholic Church of this heresy suggests a manifest ignorance of the history of theology, as well as the clear Catholic teaching of the Council of Trent (1545-63), available for all to see. Yet the myth is strangely prevalent.
martlut 1 year ago
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
martlut 1 year ago
Joh:6:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
God. Ro:12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of .your mind, 1Jo:4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him
hoffabrando 1 year ago
John 14:12
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
flameboy1236 1 year ago
@hoffabrando Matt. 7:21. "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven".
kingsmen711 1 year ago
@kingsmen711
1Co:15:22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
ARE YOU IN CHRIST, and is he your king, Doing the will of God,? is this the will of God,? changing the definition of sin,
Ex:20:4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Ex:20:8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. The 7th not the 1st
Ex:20:13: Thou shalt not kill. Inquisitions
M'r:7:7: Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
hoffabrando 1 year ago
How to Become Just.
Righteousness is the end to be obtained, and the law of God is the standard. "The law worketh wrath," because "all have sinned," and "the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience." How shall we become doers of the law, and thus escape wrath, or the curse? The answer is, "The righteous shall live by faith." By faith, not by works, we pt1
hoffabrando 1 year ago
become doers of the law. "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Rom.10:10. That no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident. From what does it appear?--From this,--that "the just shall live by faith." If righteousness came by works, then it would not be by faith; "if by grace, then is it no more of works; otherwise grace is pt2
hoffabrando 1 year ago
no more grace." Rom.11:6. "To him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom.4:4,5. There is no exception, no half-way working. It is not said that some of the just shall live by faith, or that they shall live by pt3
hoffabrando 1 year ago
faith and works, but, simply, "the just shall live by faith," and that proves that it is not by their own works. All of the just are made and kept just by faith alone. This is because the law is so holy. It is greater than can be done by man; only Divine power can accomplish it; so by faith we receive the Lord Jesus, and He lives the perfect law in us. Pt4
hoffabrando 1 year ago
After listening to this video, I'm almost inclined to agree with the Council of Trent banning private ownership and interpretation of scripture without a license. There are lots of verses in the New Testament that discuss faith and faith alone, just as there are many that discuss the role of works. To deny either is ridiculous. The issue is how to interpret those scriptures in their context and relative to other scriptures..
loveworthfinding 1 year ago
I quote from a Cardinal:
"Good works (as they are called) are required, not as if they had any thing of merit in them, not as if they could of themselves turn away God's anger for our sins, or purchase heaven for us, but because they are the means, under God's grace, of strengthening and showing forth that holy principle which God implants in the heart, and without which (as the text tells us) we cannot see Him"
PauAngie 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
Man this video hits the nail right on the head.
baredd79 1 year ago
"Faith alone" is acceptable in catholic soteriology but it must be fully explained: We are given saving faith in water baptism, and that "faith alone" is nurtured by the Sacraments and doing good works. In comparison, Evangelicals use "faith alone" in an isolated / exclusive sense, but catholics use it in an inclusive / un-isolated sense.
AtomicMonster454 2 years ago
"Works" is a result of our faith and is performed out of our love for Jesus. It comes as an outpouring of our spiritual gifts after we are born again, born of the Holy Spirit. It is not a striving, it is a blessing and privilege to serve where He leads us.
judykins11772 2 years ago
@judykins11772
Heb 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Rom 2:7
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Gal 6 the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
chestertonrules 2 years ago
@judykins11772
1 Cor 9:27
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
2 Tim 4:7
7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
chestertonrules 2 years ago
Saved from what?
isaie2222 2 years ago
I've often wondered if a person who lives in an area of the world who has never been exposed to the teachings of Christianity (thus does not believe in Jesus/no faith), can be saved? Think about it. How do we as Christians address this problem? It is said that in order to be saved, we must have faith in Jesus as our lord and Saviour, but how can a person have faith if they never even heard of Jesus?
ordphx 2 years ago
@ordphx
With God all things are possible.
To whom much is given, much is expected.
chestertonrules 2 years ago
A pygmy living on an Island where Jesus is unkown. Is the pygmy saved by Jesus' ?
ordphx 2 years ago
... and if you cant have faith without good works, according to James 2:20, your faith is dead. If your faith is dead, then how can you be saved? Remember, you need faith to be saved.
ordphx 2 years ago
DictaorStatus - Also you cannot do good works without faith. Some Catholics believe that if they do good things, then they will go to heaven. This alone without faith in Jesus, is not enough. btw..these people are misguided Catholics, because the Catholic Church teaches that you must have faith AND good works. As stated earlier, they go hand in hand. The faith produces/encourages good works (by product). So in summary, faith alone does not save you, because withouth deeds, faith is dead.
ordphx 2 years ago
That is a strawman argument. Some Catholics may believe something such as what you describe but not because that is a Catholic teaching.
Some protestants now extract up 26-28 books from the traditional christian-Catholic Bible and then lecture Catholics on sola scriptura!
Do you see my point?
CatholicConversion 1 year ago
I just might sound like a catholic BUT.. What james says is that a person with faith will work because he have faith. So. you work because you have faith, not because you re saved. The word "Save" in our protestant vocabulary is a word we really like to use. If you have faith, you better do the work. THAT is what james is saying. You can say LORD, LORD as much as you want but you better act like him. Their is no piggy back ride for your salvation.
christseulsauve 2 years ago
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christseulsauve 2 years ago
If there are no works then the faith one claims to have is not faith at all. James addressed this issue almost 2000 yrs ago and still mankind just doesnt get it, thats why the arguement rages on.
Faith without works is DEAD...can dead faith save anybody.
nrhouseman 2 years ago
if a person is working to get saved, or working in order to remain saved. Then chances are that they are Lost and still hellbound. Reason I say this is becuase they are not truly trusting on Christ's finished work on the cross and are completely disregarding his grace. The bible makes it clear that salvation is a free gift, not a loan. and that Eternal life is not temporary. and according to scriptures- if you truly believe in Christ then you have eternal life already as a current possesion.
DictatorStatus 2 years ago
Hebrews 10:26-27 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." Anyone can say I have faith or I believe in Jesus but faith without works is dead. James 2:26, The new law convenant that Christ brought is to love your neighbor as yourself but love God first. Read the Bible reject false words from preachers!
stamosenterprises 2 years ago
The thief on the cross was saved without having to do any works.
DictatorStatus 2 years ago
Dictator, was the thief on the cross saved under the law and the old covenant or was he saved under the new covenant?
nrhouseman 2 years ago
the Thief on the cross was saved simply becuase he truly believed in Jesus. like i said before you cant be saved by works.
when james was saying that Faith without works is dead- he is simply saying that a person that was truly saved- will work becuase they have saving faith. works is just a byproduct of having saving faith. you dont work in order to be saved, rather you work becuase your saved. becuase the Holy Spirit begins a work in you that he promises to finish until day of redemption
DictatorStatus 2 years ago
DictatorStatus - I agree with Stamosenterprises. I agree with you also with one exception. You seem to believe that the Catholic faith believes that it is the act of the good works that saves us. It is not. It is our faith that Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour. Performing good works is a necessary byproduct, but it is necessary. If you are not performing good works, then you truly don't have faith. IE: You cant' have faith without good works. They go hand in hand.
ordphx 2 years ago
the thief was asking forgiveness Jesus forgived him for his sins.
cebuano1997 2 years ago
im not catholic but i totally agree with this .. good video
XvBiBleMaNvX 2 years ago 2
I watched this video DavidVelezPerez.
Neither faith or works saves. Jesus death saves you. Repent (Psalms 51:17) & be baptized (ID yourself in work of Jesus).
Jesus' work on the cross saves, but Jesus work can save those who know nothing of Jesus' work like those in South America in 100 B.C. or 100 A.D.
Your sacrifice is only good with Jesus' sacrifice, but your sacrifice is your sin according to Psalms 51:17 & it saves.
Your works upon sacrificing sin would be different no doubt.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
When will you learn about our Religion before you post your dumb comments, if we didn't believe in Jesus, why do we say we believe in Jesus Christ? Stop being so ingnorant and stop reading chick tracts. Learn Catholicism from a Catholic. I suggest you repent and be baptized, because I have Jesus.
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
I know Catholics believe in Jesus Christ.
I never said the Catholic wasn't saved.
I am saying neither works nor faith save you.
All our saved by the grace of God even if they never heard of the name of Jesus Christ.
Also the works do not add anything to the salvation of yourself. They are a manifestation.
Repentance and faith help the blood of Jesus to cover sins. Repentance more so though.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Works is not necessary, but repentance to salvation through Psalms 51:17 should obviously bring about works.
It is by grace we are saved through faith.
How are we saved?
We are saved by the grace of God for through repentance which is our only sacrifice of Psalms 51:17 we are sacrificing in the ashes of a much older sacrifice by Jesus on the cross.
Jesus saves & no work we perform can be added to it.
Repentance & grace should bring about works of God through us.
Jesus' sacrifice saves.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
ABAisSCIENCE - Nowhere in bible it says that we are saved by faith alone. Sola fide is unbiblical
You must have faith and you must do good works (eg follow ten commandments)
A selfish person can have faith but the selfish person may not do any good works. In that case that selfish person may not be saved
People in rich countries will have hard time going to heaven:
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Mark 10:25
mysteriumaenigma 2 years ago
You aren't saved by works lest anyone should boast. Even faith does not save.
The message is repent and be baptized. Repent means look at Psalms 51:17 and be baptized means be identified in Jesus Christ for it is by grace that you are saved.
It is in the Bible that by grace you are saved. Jesus died for sins and thus it is the grace of God or Jesus death on the cross that saves.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Don't put anything into your works Mysteriumaenigma.
You don't do anything for your salvation other than repent of your sins.
Jesus works out your salvation. In fact He already did it.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
But we have to respond to that grace.
flameboy1236 2 years ago
We will be judge according to our works.
flameboy1236 2 years ago
I hope you aren't judged according to your works. You can't stand before a righteous God that way.
When the devil claims you as 1 who follows in his works, I hope that you have 1 rise in your defense who bought & paid for you with His blood.
That person will also rise up to take the deed to this world & He will judge it by bringing forth a lake of fire from out of its bowels. Meanwhile the scapegoat for your sins, if you accept His gift, is preparing another place. It'll be better.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
No, im not judging and faith without works is dead.
flameboy1236 2 years ago
When you say faith without works is dead you are judging what are the criteria for salvation. I think you are accurate that faith without works is dead. You are inaccurate if you think you are proving what saves.
The question is what saves. Faith and repentance should produce works or the faith and repentance is in question.
Jesus' death saves. You are saved by grace through faith. That also is biblical.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
No, love is greater than faith but of course, we do need faith. Also, we need to respond to Gods grace.
flameboy1236 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God's grace is greater than faith.
What do you think makes God extend His grace if not love?
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
It is Jesus death that saves us which is grace thanks to his love.
Thanks for agreeing that your works are filthy rags in comparison to a righteous God.
Paul states God works in us. Don't take pride in your works.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. - Revelation 20: 12.
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
Rev. 20:12,15 "dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works...whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Don't trust your works Mysteriummaenigma & DavidVelezPerez because your works condemn you. You don't do anything for your salvation other than repent of your sins.
Jesus works out your salvation. John 14:6 "Jesus said, 'I am the way, the truth, & life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'"
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Of course, Jesus also said, "I and the Father are one."
So have you come to Jesus? If you don't than you are not with God.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
We believe Jesus is the way to God. But we do not believe you can go to Heaven with Faith Alone. You need works too. We do not believe we can work our way into Heaven. And is says in the bible NOT by Faith Alone (James 2:14-26)
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
James isn't saying works save you. James is saying true faith produces works, thus like a behaviorist a person sees faith by works. It's Christ Jesus working in you.
Paul says you aren't saved by works lest you boast, but then Paul says you aren't saved by faith though that be the instrument that gains Jesus grace.
You're saved by the grace of God. That is because Jesus is the way to God & the way provided is a sacrifice. Your sacrifice is your sin per Psalms 51:17 but Jesus blood saves.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"- James 2:14
Faith Alone can't save you either. We need both. Catholics do not say we can work our way into Hea...you know what? Just watch the video, before you comment, please.
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
To God be the glory DavidVelezPerez.
Be careful not to stand on something else other than the rock of your salvation. Do you know what the rock of your salvation is?
Peter said some words & Jesus said that Peter's words would be used to build a church. The people of God are the people of God based on what they stand or speak on (behavior).
Jesus' death on the cross is enough for salvation. Still belief to repentance & faith should produce works so get out there & work. The world could use it.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
I think what he is trying to say though is that works shouldnt be the thing that defines you, if you do good works, yet dont believe in Jesus then those works wont save you. The works should be given up to Jesus, and they should never be used to make one personally feel better. All good in the world comes from Jesus.
RockyBalboa211 2 years ago
Works come due to a changed heart.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Yet, what about the people who dont believe in jesus and yet do good works...I dont understand how they can perform works if their hearts have not changed?
RockyBalboa211 2 years ago
Works don't save anyone unless you speak of the work of Jesus on the cross for mankind.
If you don't know of Jesus there is self-knowledge that should bring Psalms 51:17 which is the repentance of sin & the humility of man for their actions.
Who do you think doesn't sin? The Bible says, "none." I agree with it. The righteousness of man is basically filthy rags.
People behave due to their conditioning. We categorize things as good or bad, but you are the summation of all your behavior.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
we are saved by faith through grace not by works less any man shall boast, and no were saved by babtizm doesnt meantion babtizm around eph 2:8-9 ,even roman 10 :9-10 tell us how we are saved by cofessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus and beliving in our heart that Jesus died for us and rose again from the dead, taking sripture out of contex you can get many weird doctrines, but it is by faith through grace as the scripture declairs through the bible.
dippydoo102 2 years ago
Faith alone does not save you nor works alone save you.
You need both faith and works.
Baptism is necessary for salvation. Water baptism is so important that Christ himself received water baptism to set an example of what we should do.
" John 3:5, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of ...
"
It is talking about water baptism.
mysteriumaenigma 2 years ago
I will agree to disagree with you faith it is to be saved and after faith' weare His workman ship created on to good work which he has before ordain that we should walk in them, though babtism is a inward sign in what you already belive, babtism nor does not that save you. john 3 3-5 tells us of a spirituaul new birth, you must be born again . romans10 9-10 tells you how
dippydoo102 2 years ago
dippydoo102 - The original Churches, Catholic and Orthodox disagree with you. Nowhere in the bible it says that faith alone is is enough. Sola fide is unbiblical.
Faith and works are both necessary for salvation.
24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24
Catholic church think baptism is necessary for salvation. However, baptism itself is not enough. It is possible to loose salvation after baptism by vliolating God's commands.
mysteriumaenigma 2 years ago
romans 5:1 says we are Justified made rightous by faith no were in scripture can you work for Heaven, you would be like the ones that built the tower of babblei n the old testement, trying to get to God on there own merritsor works,And in collosians He took and paid for the ten commandments we couldnt keep them any ways that iwas the reason for the cross He pais the price for all so we in turn 2 cor 5 :17-21 we are new creations in christ , read that he reconciled us to Him
dippydoo102 2 years ago
dippydoo102 - Yes, you must be born again.
You must believe in Jesus, properly baptized in water and received the Holy Spirit.
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. John 3:5
mysteriumaenigma 2 years ago
Comment removed
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
DavidVelezPerez - Catholics do not believe that we are saved by works alone.
Catholic church believes that we are saved by faith AND works.
mysteriumaenigma 2 years ago
I didn't say they did. I said some people do. The Pluralists do.
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
Well, I love 2 parts ... all the faith and works he usually mentions, and the part where he mentions, and I agree, all the parts of the Bible that mention being judged on judgement day, do not mention being judged by faith, only works (of course which faith is a part of).
Rev. 20:12-13
Rev. 22:12
1 Peter 1:17
Romans 2:6
2 Cor. 5:10
Mt. 16:27
Mt.25:31-46
and others...
These clearly teach that works are necesarry along side faith as James, chapter 2 talks about.
StJohnsYG 2 years ago
Whooo hooo. Great video. Everything by John is great. Simple, easy to understand, biblical...and true!! : )
I like the part of the video where he says James 2:24 is the only place in Scripture that mention faith alone, next to each other, side by side ... and it's to say that we are NOT saved by faith alone. Period. I guess that's why the invented doctrine of faith alone only comes about after the 1500's, and never heard of by the earliest Christians.
Mowfest 2 years ago 3
As a consequence he stresses that a faith which does not affect life is not saving faith; hence, his emphasis on works. Actually, this is quite close to Paul's understanding. For Paul, faith is the entrusting of one's whole life to God through Christ, with the result that one's life becomes renewed with the " fruit of the Spirit" (Gal.5:22).
prisg2924 2 years ago
Faith is a response to grace. Good works are also a response to grace. Since grace is what saves us, both faith and works are efficacious to our salvation. Just as lack of faith is a rejection of grace, evil deeds are also a rejection of God's grace. This is why sin threatens salvation and Paul warns against sin to all the Chrisitian communities to who he writes. The entire Scriptures testify to this, not only a couple of verses.
haojiesheng 2 years ago
James and Paul differ in their views on the saving significance of faith and works.Paul states, "A man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law"(Rom.3:28), and James says,"A man is justified by works,and not by faith only"(James.2:19).A closer reading of the two,however,reveals that they differ more in their definition of faith than in its essence.James writes to readers who are inclined to interpret faith as mere intellectual acknowledgment(James 2:19).
prisg2924 2 years ago
I would argue that both Paul and James have a very Catholic understanding of faith and that the definitions do not differ at all. The definition of faith that you hold is quite different Luther's understanding and that is because Luther's understanding of faith alone is violently contrary to Scripture. Protestantism, however, is unable to relinquish the doctrine of faith alone and has thus changed the definition of faith so that it encompasses the Catholic understanding as the Bible teaches.
haojiesheng 2 years ago
Why is Luther's understanding of faith alone a violently contrary to Scripture?
prisg2924 2 years ago
For starters, he had to call the Epistle of James an "epistle of straw" and call Matthew, Mark, and Luke "lesser gospels" in a effort to support his belief.
haojiesheng 2 years ago
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by GRACE you have been saved, through FAITH and this not from yourselves, its is the gift of God--not by WORKS, so that no one can boast.
prisg2924 2 years ago
Indeed. We do not earn God's grace. We can only receive the gift. However, as some protestants would say that grace can only be received through faith, Catholics say that grace can be received through faith, good works, sacraments, and ways only known to God for grace is infinite. The Scriptures testify to this quite cleary. If you would like a deeper understanding, go to my myspace page and read the 4 part blog titled "Salvation Controvercy."
haojiesheng 2 years ago
Also Peter said that we obtain as the outcome of our faith, the salvation of our souls. 1 Peter 1:9
SRobacker 2 years ago
Why can't we see the comments that anotherwhosoever was making anymore?
BergersonWindow 2 years ago
I'm not sure. Someone marked his comments as spam. I then marked them as not spam. Several comments he/she made was removed by author do to duplication of comments. But the comments not removed should be visible. Let me know if the problem persists.
haojiesheng 2 years ago
"we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,"
Hebrews 10:10-12
peitsch316 2 years ago
In Latin the phrase for this belief is fidem formata caritatem- faith reinforced by works. See Matthew 24.
RomneyGack 2 years ago
So the catechism doesn't teach works ..... but faith alone is not enough .... sound like you live in the middle of a big contradiction.
AnotherWhosoever 2 years ago
No different than the "contradiction" of Scripture. The Catholic position is the same as Scripture teaches: We are saved by grace through the redemptive work of Christ. That grace is received primarily through faith, good works, and the Sacraments. No contradiction there.
haojiesheng 2 years ago
If grace is received through good works, and the Sacraments? Then how can you explain these verses, or the entire book of Hebrews.
Romans 11:6-7
"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."
AnotherWhosoever 2 years ago
Well, given the context of Romans 11, I would say that Paul is discussing the works of the Old Covenant Law. He is saying that it was not in code of the Sinai Covenant in which they are saved, but by the grace of God. In the Ephesians passage Paul is clearly that it is by God's grace that we are saved and that human effort cannot be the cause of our salvation. However, these pasages do not contradict my statement. And Hebrews is very sacramental in nature. I will email you a link that is helpful
haojiesheng 2 years ago
Obedience to the law has nothing to do with NT salvation.
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
I can't believe that you would say that Hebrews is "very sacramental". It is the most anti-sacramental book in the NT.
AnotherWhosoever 2 years ago
Perhaps you do not understand the Sacraments and that is how you do not see the connection in Hebrews? If you google Agape Bible Study and go to their study on Hebrews, that is an excellent place to go. I would say that obedience to Law does have say in ones salvation. See Mt 7:21-23 and Romans 2:12-24
haojiesheng 2 years ago
I understand the sacraments. I was raised in a Catholic family and attended Catholic school. However, I did not know Jesus until I studied the Word of God, apart from the traditions of men. My Catholic friend, you are guilty of committing "dead works" that are the invention of a political machine in Rome.
AnotherWhosoever 2 years ago
Your predicament is described in Hebrews chapter 8 & 9. "For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
AnotherWhosoever 2 years ago
And the passage that you quote pierces near the core of Catholic belief, yet you do not know how or why. Nor do you even recognize the close proximity. I am sure of it, you left a faith that you did not understand.
haojiesheng 2 years ago
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I understand the church very well. In fact my understanding of Catholic dogma drove me to scripture to see if these things were true. I reasoned with God as I read His word and it was clear that His work was finished on the cross not at the mass.
"And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God"
Hebrews 10:11&12
AnotherWhosoever 2 years ago