Bret Hart confrontation with Abdullah The Butcher

[vancitypoet]

@altohart actually dude, bret did draw and sold tons of merchandise for them. internationally, no one drew as much as bret did in that era, and that was the name of the game....to draw worldwide, not just in new york. vince wouldnt put a belt on a guy 5 times who couldnt draw, hes all business. maybe you should do your history.

[bittyrock]

Abdulluh was like Uncle to the Harts...gotta love Young Bret

[EDDIEJ12]

To this day...I shit my pants when i remember abdullah, his run in Puerto Rico when I was a kid just scared the fuck out of me!

[BigBlackBootyDaddy]

so bret with a fucked up leg can suplex a 900 lb black man, guess psychology didnt mean shit in stampede

[530aftescho]

Great times. Real great times here.

[billyvcd]

another great company shut down because of vince.........ARSEHOLE

[barter2056]

The good ol' days.

[flatulatingmarmoset]

Bret suplexed the fat man! I didn't think he was that strong. WWE wouldn't hire Abdullah because of his fondness for blood.

[Rayla840]

@flatulatingmarmoset I guess being inducted in the HOF is as close as he'll get.

[MISTofDAN]

When did this happen?

[realityeaters]

why dont they have a new jack vs Abdullah the butcher match

you should what Abdullah the butcher did to sabu in Japan...

[RSXemperor]

There are some really ignorant "fans" writing on this page. I hate Vince as much as anyone for killing the territories. He has hurt wrestling but to disparage Austin, Bret and HBK and say they couldn't draw in the NWA is STUPID. Great wrestling is great wrestling,whether its WWE or NWA. Those guys would have drew ANYWHERE. I love old school NWA but the hate for WWF honestly goes too far cause not everything that has come out of Titan Towers has been horrible. Be real fans and not marks.

[Stldetrl]

Why does Bret not have an accent here, yet he does now?

[TheBigBadWoIf]

@Stldetrl what are you talking aboot?

[MilosChikarason]

Good god, Abby gets suplexed! Impossible is nothing.

[Murphdogg4]

in the states Bret was never a draw. Sorry but it's true.

[yourcrapsweak]

i hope you're talking about the 70s and early 80s.

he didn't need to draw in the states anyway, he was a draw everywhere else, especially in calgary, which was all he needed.

[gorf28]

if he was never a draw why was he wwfs top man for 4 nearly 5 years, before austin came on to his game? Bret probably had the best all round following, He was huge in canada, UK, Europe everywhere. I stay in the UK and I had herd of flair and sting when I was younger but i had seen them wrestle, they couldnt draw in the UK or europe like hart could.

[Gustavo11pr]

WTF guys!! You're missing the point... Here is a Gold gem: Bret Hart vs Abdullah The Butcher! The best Technical wrestler vs. The Best Hardcore Wrestler! Both Canadians.. and Both World Icons ... Abby should be in the HoF... Probably the only guy who has wrestled in every country of this Planet!

[Rayla840]

What the hell are all these people below me babbling about?

[JUSTINIGHTMARE]

Darth Sid and Majs444 you are both WRONG! Ric Flair made it big in NWA which later became WCW WWE circus made nothing of him same for SID he was WCW made same with Lex Luger ,Brian Pillman ,Chris Benoit etc

Now Flair will make TNA big and wait till they bring THE RoCK

[gorf28]

ur daft man, Rock is returning to WWE. Who in there right mind wants to watch a 62 year old man, with more lose skin thn my great gran, talk a lot of crap on TNA, Flair shud just move out the spotlight and let the young guys come through, same goes for hogan.

[MAJS444]

@JUSTINIGHTMARE --What makes you think I didn't know that? Flair still didn't draw flies in his first WWF run. Luger always sucked. Benoit, Sid, and Pillman were all used better in WWF.

If you think TNA is gonna become big and bring in the Rock (LOL!) for real, well, whatever.

Telling me that NWA became WCW is funny. The REAL NWA vanished around 1985, when it consolidated under Jim Crockett Promotions, later bought by Ted Turner.

But what do I know?

[Ralstaan]

No doubt Flair was the hardest working heel in the business, but he wrestled in front of small crowds night after night, and Vince found out right away that Flair wasn't ready for the big time. Flair in the WWF was like oil and water. He may have been absolute gold on the mic, but his style and persona fit the regional feel of the NWA, while Andre, Hogan, Savage, Hart, and later Austin were global stars.

[Ralstaan]

I'm one of the biggest NWA/WCW marks alive, and I will say Flair could never have drew on top of the WWF the way Hogan, Austin, and Hart did. Granted, McMahon could have produced a lot of dollars with Flair as his top guy, but Ric didn't have a style fit for the "big show" up in New York. Hart and Austin knew ring psychology, while Flair bumped around for jobbers and refs. Sooner or later, the novelty of Flair escaping every match by the skin of his teeth would have bombed with WWF fans.

[createsutoo]

Hannibalz the Only1 to Ever 123 him......

[cortezangelfish]

i am a lifelong Ric Flair fan but Flair did not even draw flies as WWf champion in 1991-92. Did you ever notice that the guys that Ric Flair criticizes the most are the ones that parted on bad terms with Vince McMahon (with the possible exception of Lex Luger)? Am i to believe that Vince put the belt on Bret 5 times and Bret never drew any money for him? bullshit. And Bruno did not draw money either? that is bullshit too. Vince never gave Abdullah a phone call ...never.

[DarthSid1969]

Vince is the reason Flair didn't draw in WWF. He killed the "Real World Champ" angle too soon after WCW bought back the belt. Hogan was invisible except for 1 interview during the buildup of the MSG bout with Flair due to the "Steroid" scandal at the time. Everyone knows that. Hart was a Backlund clone - great wrestler & boring interview. Flair filled seats all over the World nightly while Hogan only wrestled on PPV events maybe twice a year & Hart filled High School gyms throughout Canada.

[MAJS444]

Do you really think Flair outdrew Hogan...ARE YOU NUTS!!!

Flair was a lousy draw in Japan, both Bret and Hogan drew better in Japan.

Flair, for most of his career, was a lousy draw in the northeast. Hogan and Bret outdrew him there.

Flair never drew in Europe. Bret Hart outdrew even Hogan in Germany.

Hogan outdrew Flair EVERYWHERE! Even in Flair`s stomping grounds.

You either lie or are hopelessly ignorant.

Look it up. Flair NEVER drew around the world.

Only in Carolina and Georgia

[DarthSid1969]

So you took a survey of everyone that purchased the tickets and confirmed that they came to see the alleged top draw as opposed to buying a ticket to see who was on the undercard? Nice assumption. Everyone knows Flair carried the NWA / WCCW all by himself and because of him they were the last dominoe to fall. You "know it alls" really don't know jack. You've convinced yourself that people came to see Hogan & Hart the so called "top of the card" draws - Hahahaha! Funny!

[MAJS444]

You are a moron, who thinks they know it all as much as I do.

Everything I said was true. Merchandise sales confirm who the top draws are. Flair never sold squat for merch. Hogan and Bret owned him on that front, and confirm their status as the top draw on top of the card.

Austin blew both of them away, and for that is the greatest of all time.

Again, these are facts, easily checked.

[DarthSid1969]

You are the moron and a fing jerkoff to boot! Buying merchandise and paying to go to a live event are 2 completely different things. Just because you buy an action figure for your kid it does not mean you bought the ticket to the event to see the action figure. You make me laugh. Hogan never would have been if not for Rocky 3 - he couldnt "sell", he couldnt make anyone but himself look good, and his interviews were repetitive. People bought a few sunglasses for Bret - big deal!

[DarthSid1969]

Austin was not that big a deal. Vince promoted him heavy but he really didn't make a good "face" character. Only Flair could travel all over and make every territories top guy look good - creating fan interest. Only Flair could wrestles as either a "face" or "villain". Most of all only Flair could make you believe that the World Championship was something worth fighting for. Hogan, Bret, and Austin were basically primadonna's that could never match Flair's work ethic. End of your lesson...

[MAJS444]

'Austin was not that big of a deal.'

That is the dumbest comment I have ever read. Austin was a VERY big deal. Only a retard would argue otherwise. He was on top of wrestling at the height of its popularity.

'Only Flair could work as...face or villain.'

That simply is not true. Hogan's heel turn was huge, and Hulk could always turn back to being a face, which he did.

Bret Hart worked as a face in his feud with Jerry Lawler, but in Memphis, Hart worked as a heel in the exact same feud.

[DarthSid1969]

Austin was never "on top" of wrestling especially at it's height of popularity. Don't let piped in crowd noise fool you son. Hogan's heel turn was not huge at all. Hall & Nash made the NWO popular not Hogan. Piper - Snuka and the WWF - MTV connection brought wrestling to new televised heights. There was plenty of other bought talent that helped too. You assume people were into Austin & Hogan but they weren't...

[MAJS444]

'...Flair could make you believe that the World Championship was something worth fighting for.'

You know, I am a huge Ric Flair fan. But I am not someone who lies to themselves. Flair has NEVER drawn outside of the American Southeast and midwest.

It is a fact.

Bret Hart was a way better draw in Europe, so was Hogan.

Both were better draws in Japan too.

You are making some silly comments to defend Flair. Realize that my comments are not meant to disparage Flair, they are statements of fact.

[DarthSid1969]

No one outside Canada & you were interested in Hart.  Your statements are your opinions. Where are your numbers to support them? They don't exist. If Austin & Hart were such big draws then explain there short WWF careers? Even with McMahon promoting them they were never complete. Austin couldn't wrestle and Hart couldn't talk. Hogan was nothing w/o Stallone, Piper, Andre, & Mcmahon to carry him while Flair carried the NWA/WCW on his back alone - get real bro...

[DarthSid1969]

Regarding Flair "failing" in the WWF - McMahon did not build up the Hogan vs. Flair properly. Flair had 1 feud with Piper and then straight to Hogan. The angle would have worked better with Flair delivering wrestling lessons to the WWF cartoon characters building credibilty with the "casual" WWF wrestling fans prior to the faceoff with Hogan. The steroid scandal didn't help the dream match either. Beyond that this was the real end of his career. No one could touch Flair in the 80s no one.

[MAJS444]

Watched Raw last night, seemed lots of people are still interested in Hart. Austin wrestled for 15 years, 8 of them in WWE. He retired on his own terms. Look at the numbers. You can use Google to find out that Flair never drew more than 13000. Hart drew 20000 in Germany, it's a fact.

Hogan drew WAY more than Flair, so did Austin. Both drew over 20000 on top of the card, making money like mad.

These are facts, not opinions.

[MAJS444]

And I LOVE Ric Flair. His feud with Ricky Steamboat made me a wrestling fan. But this fued unfolded with low TV viewership in front of around 5000 people, tops

Flair's 5 star 'I Quit' match with Terry Funk, a classic, drew less than 5000 people, plus fewer TV viewers than an episode of WWF Superstars.

I was there when Hart beat Flair for the WWF title, and Hart's promo gave everyone goosebumps. He could talk, not like Flair

Austin could wrestle, he was never the same after Owen broke his neck.

[DarthSid1969]

Again you assume because the promoter lists someone at the top of the card that that is who everyone paid to see. Parents bought the tickets. Their children wanted to see Hogan but the adults came out to see Flair. Austin was a product of the McMahon hype machine and an average "wrestler" at best. Hart gave you goosebumps? That is the funniest thing I ever heard. You must be a fruitcake. Austins knees were shot and Hart was as exciting as Backlund. Those are the facts. You are too funny

[DarthSid1969]

Everyone knows that the WWF won because they had MSG, Andre, & later bought up all the top talent. Hogan's leg drop was probably the most ridiculous finishing move ever. Austin gained some popularity by passing out a few beers and Hart tried to brainwash you with that best ever nonsense speech. When Hogan went to WCW people paid to see Flair vs. Hogan not Hogan vs. Flair. Flair sold out arenas all over the US except WWF due to McMAhon wanting it that way. Big in Japan too...

[DarthSid1969]

Europe is not even a "real" wrestling territory those people like soccer. The 20000 came to see the WWF circus not Hart by himself. Hogan, Hart, & Austin could have never handled the schedule of the NWA champ and any of those 3 at the top of those cards would have put the NWA out of business much sooner. Even Sammartino wanted no part of that schedule. You assume way too much and believe too much propoganda. I laugh at you...

[MAJS444]

Your talk of propaganda is too funny! Official attendance numbers are not propaganda!

Austin was the biggest star the business had ever seen, period. McMahon didn't come up with Austin 3:16, Austin did!

Since I was in the arena when I saw Bret beat Flair (and I was only 13), the feeling was electric, and his speech was great.

Flair might be one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, he just wasn't the greatest draw.

McMahon's 'marketing' didn't change that Flair didn't draw.

[DarthSid1969]

Austin stood in the middle of the ring and tossed beers to the crowd while McMahon piped in the cheers for Austin just like he had Andre stand on the box during interviews. You know McMahon didn't want anyone that he did not make to outshine his guys. You could credit Jake Roberts with the 3:16 which was corny and paled in comparison to the legendary 4 Horsemen gimmick. Flair had equilibrium problems at that time of the Hart match and had to drop the belt. The Hart speech was a snooze fest!

[MAJS444]

Well, Austin coined the term after a match with Jake, who you can tell was an influence on Austin's excellent promos.

The Hart speech was short enough. Like the guy above said, do you really think that VInce would have put the belt on Bret 5 times (and brought him back) if he didn't draw?

Flair cut better promos than Bret, this is not the debate.

Flair was on the way out anyways when he dropped the belt. He was going back to WCW, which never drew close to WWE until Hogan came around.

[DarthSid1969]

Even Vince makes mistakes. He kept trying to shove Hart down everyone's throat and he thought it would work like it did with Hogan but it didn't. Austin's promos were not excellent. What? What? What? Are you serious? And it wasn't Hogan that brought people to WCW arenas it was the people he brings with him which are numerous. Bums like Duggan and Beefcake always come along for the Hogan rip off the fans tour...

[DarthSid1969]

The only guys the WWF ever had that came close to Flair's overall dominance in the ring, on the mike, and attendance are Billy Graham & Sammartino. Hart & Austin were flash in the pans. Hogan really just had the look and nothing else.

[MAJS444]

These are opinions of yours, and you are entitled to them. But, like the old saying goes 'money talks and bullshit walks'.

Hart drew more money than Flair in the 1990s.

Austin drew more money in 3 years than Flair drew in his career.

Hogan drew more fans in a year than Flair drew in a decade. Simple as that.

I am not talking about who is my favourite wrestler; I am talking about who drew the most money. And all of these guys drew more money in their careers than Flair.

[MAJS444]

Fans last night seem to disagree with you, and Vince made money the whole time, so it's pretty hard to call Bret a mistake.

Unlike Flair, who never drew a fly and cost way more than he was worth in 1992.

I was watching an old NWA title match between Flair and Magnum TA just now, and the crowd was no bigger than 5000 people.

Why? Because the NWA never outdrew WWF, and Flair never outdrew Hogan.

Even Ole Anderson said Flair can't draw, only in the Southeast and midwest.

The numbers prove it.

[MAJS444]

BTW: Do you really think anyone came to see Brutus or Duggan? Are you nuts? Those guys couldn't draw flies on their own; their careers away from Hogan prove it.

They were there to see the Hulk, you either gotta be lying to yourself or delusional not to see that!

[DarthSid1969]

You really believe that everyone buys a ticket just to see who is listed as the "top of the card"? You are delusional not me. In the mid 80s the WWF already had the larger arenas and raided the talent of the smaller territories. The ticket sales were boosted by the real talent stolen from the smaller areas. Even with Rocky 3 the "real" fan response was just as loud for Snuka as it was for Hogan. Snuka killed his girlfriend and McMahon pushed Hogan but all he really had was the "look".

[DarthSid1969]

Fast forward about 10 years and you get the same no talent bum only this time he's named the Ultimate Warrior. With the proper push even an over the hill Flair would have been a much bigger hit in the WWF but we all know Vince couldn't have that. Were were the ladies that he would often bring out in his interviews? Gone. No promo videos of the night life, lear jets, and limos either. No defense of the "Real World Title". McMahon buried Flair in the WWF just like he buried The Legion of Doom

[DarthSid1969]

By the time Austin, Hart, and Shawn Michaels were being pushed. McMahon had put everyone but WCW and ECW out of business. You bought a ticket to watch wrestling no matter who was on the card because there was no alternative. Austin, Hart, and Michaels would not have been able to fill a high school gym in the NWA and you know it. Austin was a flash in the pan wife beater and never out sold anyone or anything on his own. He never carried a promotion period. Propoganda does not prove your pt.

[MAJS444]

You are so full of shit, it is hilarious. Propaganda?!?! We are talking about wrestling, not Iran, you dunce!!!

You said 'With a proper push...Flair would have been a much bigger hit...'

WRONG! Flair got a huge push, winning a Royal Rumble, headlining Wrestlemania, etc.

AND HE DIDN'T DRAW FLIES!!!!

You missed my point. I never said Flair was a lousy wrestler; he is one of my alltime favourites.

I said he never drew like Austin, Hogan, or Hart. History proves me right!

[MAJS444]

You said `No defense of the `Real World Title`.

There could be no defense of it, and if you are a half assed NWA mark, you damn well know why!

That is a stupid point. NWA gave Flair his 25K back, and he gave them the belt back. They carried the gimmick on for awhile with a fake `real world title`, but the gig was up.

[MAJS444]

While you were crying about the loss of the old territories, Austin and Hart were having one of the premier feuds on the 90s, producing many great matches and 1 bona fide 5 star match.

This on a pathetic roster which included The Godwins and all sorts of other awful gimmicks. But you say fans came to see the mid card guys...idiocy!!!

Seriously, stop this madness! You are so wrong, it is funny. Yet you continue to peddle your opinions as if they change the FACTS.

You sir, are an ignoramus.

[gorf28]

flair wrestled most arenas in front of empty seats, FACT.

[MAJS444]

Europe is the home of `catch wrestling`, and the Hart family in general, and Bret Hart in particular, are very good catch wrestlers.

Catch wrestling is the father of modern professional wrestling, so Europe does count a lot more than you tend to believe.

That said, catch wrestling would never catch on in America, it is slow and technical, often pretty boring.

[gorf28]

ric flair came 34th based on gates/ratings the wrestlers drew as main eventers by Dave Meltzer, now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[JUSTINIGHTMARE]

@gorf28 who in their right minds want to go to wwe circus think about it? you have the old farts there like underFaker,HBGay,HHH,KANE,MARK HENRY,Y2JERKIKO,BATISTA,MYSTER­IO,ORTON is the youngest he s cool

Fagboy Cena I cannot stand

th eonly talent they pushed was Sheamus

and when HHH beats him he ll be down to the bottom of the list again

[JUSTINIGHTMARE]

@gorf28  so when you diss TNA watch it when Flair was in WWE circus they didn t use him properly

Rock has been talking over 10 years about a come back he won t come back

he hates "Fagboy John Cena

[gorf28]

i like TNA, but Hogan and biscoff will destroy it. I love Samoa Joe, AJ, Daniels, guys like tha, they can wrestle man, ive seen all 3 liveon more than 1 occasion and funnily enough, ive never been to a WWE live event. Rock will guest host raw then will return. And, he was never open to returning till recently so u sayin he has talked about it for 10 years in garbage. Flair is a 60 year old man, how would WWE use him? put the world strap on him? get real man. who want to see a 60 year old champ?

[WillIsSoAwesome]

@gorf28

Like that list means anything. Which is funny because Meltzer himself has even said as much when he's done those lists. It's not meant to be serious.

All eras and areas are not equal. There's tons of factors that might make Wrestler A look like more a draw than Wrestle B, none of which have anything to do with the wrestlers themselves.

[frank5304]

true, but you must admit, if you compare the people they defended against, bret cannot compete with the guys flair defended against...funks,brisco's,race,­lugar,steamboat,muta,sting..et­c.

[StanKingston420]

@cortezangelfish Ahaha Vince Would've Been TOO Afraid to Get His Ass Stabbed And Being Tha Money Hungry Bastard That He Is... He Wouldn't give Abby Such A Great Push Even At That Time.

[seddrock]

@cortezangelfish so i guess in order to be "great" you had to have worked for Vince? Thats BS... there are wrestlers who have turned Vince down

[altohart]

@cortezangelfish Well, business was awful when Bret was champion, mostly because a lot of the wrestlers either disappeared (Ultimate Warrior, British Bulldog) or lost a great deal of size after the steroid trial. I don't blame Bret but he never drew as champ. Also, the reason Vince doesn't talk to Bruno was because Bruno ripped him for years about steroid use. So, learn your history son.

[angryfoodie]

@altohart--Bruno don`t talk to Vince you mean, and straight up talks shit about him regularly.

Bret was a decent champ.

[Mortagne]

Durring the course of an excellent interview Larry Shreeve ( Abdullah the Butcher ) explains that Bret Hart was not all that good. I agree with Abdullah and these comments are backed up by the Nature Boy. Hart had moves but coundn't draw outside of his fathers territory or the N.Y. erea during is WWF days.

[Hulkamania4eva]

WWF expanded Nationally during Bret's tenure in the WWE. He drew just as much, if not more than one Ric Flair, who you referred too.

[Mortagne]

Then care to explain why Vince bought him out and why he failed into the WCW. I did like Brett. But he is no where near the class of Hogan , Flair , Austin or Triple HHH .

[Hulkamania4eva]

Where did I compare Bret's drawing ability to Hogan and Austin?

Flair drew leftovers when Hogan was drawing every where. Bret was the main guy in the WWF when they started to expand into Europe. You talk about Bret failing in WCW. Flair failed in the WWE. He couldn't even draw with Hogan for crying out loud. Summerslam 92, Flair didn't even wrestle, bumped by Warrior for a middle of the card match.

[yojimbo81]

WCW fans liked Goldberg. That has nothing to do with Hart.

[MAJS444]

HHH is a bum compared to Bret Hart. I tend to agree with you about Hogan and Austin, Flair is a step down from those two, but putting HHH on that list destroyed your credibility.

It is no coincidence that once he was left alone on top of the card, no Austin, no Jericho, that WWE ratings and house show draw plummeted.

[mike584]

If Bret had the bad knee at this point then this took place during Stampede's dying says in 84 before Vince bought out the territory.

[brendan909]

I have the match above on tape. His opponent is Jerry Marrow. It's on one of the 3 'Best of Abdullah the Butcher' tapes I have. One of only a couple of wins by Abby in the collection.

I would have loved to see Bret vs Abby too. He faced a few WWF superstars on the tapes.

[crankyno]

that was bret? wow!!

[Superteq]

This is fucking awesome! What a suplex! I really wish they wrestled, it could have been a fantastic wild match.

[B44501xRacerEX]

Wow, he suplexed Abby

[goodoldbill]

'Abby' helped him out though

[gristlethrob777]

always heard they had some sort of confrontation though bret said they never wrestled. thanks for posting.

[miffykitty666]

dosnt Abdullah the butcher sounds like a lovely fellow.. :0p

[davvvvvvvid]

Awesome. Which federation did this take place in?

[rojoy2]

This took place in Stampede Wrestling which at that time was part of the NWA. This took place around (I'm guessing) mid 70's to early 80's. This was when Stampede was at the height of it's career.

[everflowinceo]

i believe this takes place sirca 81, vince bought stampede in 84.

[Lfdjake91]

Cool! I always wondered if these 2 guys ever fought.

[NiceVideos11]

Bret says they never wrestled

[oldschoolbrad]

awsome rare footage