Polyurethane foam to ceiling by Insulation Works LLC, serving Southern Wisconsin

[HomeEnergyNow]

Lets keep this simple for those unknowing of btu loads. WAP is a federal low income program for energy efficiency in a home. Go search the DOE for NEAT, software that WAP administrators have to use that calculates whether an item will have better than 20 year payback(even though the avg. person lives in a home for less than 10). Foam isn't even an option. Go ahead, look it up. That is evidence it's no comparison to the insulations chosen 9/10 times. Fiberglass.

[HomeEnergyNow]

I don't worry about the fiberglass absorbing, because if it were a foam home, it wouldn't ruin the insulation, it would ruin the lumber holding the home together. Its good that fiberlass alerts you to a moisture problem, the problem is the moisture, not the insulation, and its a hell of alot easier to replace batts, than walls/rafters/floor joist/rotted sheating w/foam on it. You don't want vapor barriers in houses DOE can explain why, it's on their site. Air barrier insulation also a bad thing!

[GB3RND]

So it is better to lower an already low ceiling, or just skimp on the R-value to use fiberglass, then hope that a pieced together plastic sheet vapor barrier with staple holes all over will be more effective at preventing moisture ingress into a very absorbent material (fiberglass). Why not use a material that does not effectively absorb moisture and is a vapor and air barrier and has a higher R-value to maximize head room in an already low ceiling situation. Then what about those Box Sills?

[HomeEnergyNow]

@GB3RND There are a few good places for foam, like commercial buildings in a big city where space is limited/expensive, or maybe 1/5000 homes, and only in a few places. If the ceiling is already low, and there were 2x4 or 2x6 rafters, you cant stop the bridging w/out bringing the ceiling down with rigid foam, dont finish the attic! It is a really financially stupid thing to do to a house anyway, spend 3 times/sqft what you would for a new home.

[spraymaster77]

@GB3RND I agree with you completly&then some, Not sure about GB, Raider Nation from PA. I do not know MR home energy or care too, Maybe he has some almost new but trashed foam rig for sale he be talking about. Holly Shit he is a builder. I started business with my Dad in 1977, blown fg,cellulose,rockwool,uf foam,open&closed cell foam.Sprayed cellulose,air,vapor,fire srop,residential remodeling. I have sprayed foam for homes,business,uncle sam, joe blow,hvac. refers ect. home energy now not later

[HomeEnergyNow]

@spraymaster77 Tell me super sprayer, that makes you like a drywaller, LOL, or concrete guy. Wow one of my 10 subs. LOL good job. Not "got a/c license, BPI license, HERS rater licence" on that list? So you don't know how to calculate btu load? Thats what I thought, let the builder tell you what he wants for insulation, because we know ROI, and proper building techniques, you know insulation.

[HomeEnergyNow]

Picture a 2x4 rafter with your R-21ish closed cell in between them. Why a almost vapor barrier is a bad idea, humidity in the house floats to the upper upper story, and goes out the easiest way it can....through the 2x4 rafters. Now in the middle of winter the 2x4 rafter which is like R-2, gets to be real cold at night, and the homes humidity is wicking out, hmmmmmmm, Condensation anyone?I would NEVER leave a 2x4 or 2x6 to thermally bridge in a second story ceiling, especially w/out ventilation

[GB3RND]

How do you determine spray foam salespeople ignore math and science. Do you use fiberglass around your doors and windows? What about in the box sill or rim joist area? What happens when your customer wants to insulate their upstairs with 2x4 or 2x6 rafters and they already have a low ceiling? Do you still use fiberglass? A good insulator knows and understands all types of insulation and the science of building to best match the correct product to the application.

[HomeEnergyNow]

@GB3RNDWindow manufactures void their warranty if you use foam around them! (yes, even the "window" stuff) When we are done, no warranties are void. Go to the national OSB website and tell us what foam will do to the warranty there too! I use whatever has the best ROI, not what performs best in a 2x4 cavity. I understand gold is the best radiant barrier, but would I recommend it? Never could foam be the correct product, I explained you can NOT rely on mechanical fresh air! Health FIRST

[spraymaster77]

@HomeEnergy wtf is wrong with you, I have been in insulation business for over 30 Years. Owner and Operator & yes salesman. I provide my new and existing custmers options. Good luck cause you need it more than i do.

[HomeEnergyNow]

@spraymaster77 Get a license involving btu load, then talk to me, I am getting real sick of spray foam contractors acting like they know SHIT about btu loads.No A/C guy I know installs foam, but I know many that install any loosefill. They know that loosefill is SUPERIOR at a lower price, just takes REMdesign or some other type of btu calculator, ASHREA. I have honestly tried near ever type of foam installation in my ROI calculators, it has extremely poor ROI.

[HomeEnergyNow]

You want to know what is really unfortunate? All of the people that sit back and ignore math and science but instead listen to a spray foam salesmen. Why do you feel profit is more important than fact? Being a builder we can test in reality so there are no more games like the foam industry saying that the science is wrong because R-value is bogus......well....according to reality, homes w/loose-fill at greater R-value performed better. Wow, first ASHREA science, THEN reality. What have you got?

[HomeEnergyNow]

Loose-fills insulate to R-60. Just thought if you want to compare R-value, what does foam go to? Does it insulate to R-60? What do you do now that you cut off the homes natural fresh air flow? Do you just let the customers suffer the health problems that come from no fresh air? Do you install a mechanical fresh air system that will fail without warning and give the occupants health problems that come from lack of fresh air? Which one is it?

[GB3RND]

@HomeEnergyNow It is unfortunate you feel it necessary to add negative comments to my videos. I have not done this to you, but that may be because you don't have any content online. I would feel different about your comments if you had some scientific evidence to support your claims. Is it just really good marketing that spray foam is the only section of the insulation industry experiencing growth, or is it possible that it out performs everything else?

[HomeEnergyNow]

@GB3RND Manual J is all the science you need. Try doing one, they are not claims, why do A/C guys that offer insulation.....never offer foam?.......hmmm. What did it do, grow from 3% to 5% of the market, with the economy and housing, more foam trucks for sale than ever, it's "growth" that hasnt' really been there for 30+ years......is over.

[GB3RND]

d1incharge

Please define professional. "Professionals usually recommend against foam, especially closed cell"

If professionals recommend against foam, why would well educated architects and engineers specify and design it into their structures?

[HomeEnergyNow]

@GB3RND When did they become building professionals?

[HomeEnergyNow]

We have built many homes for engineers and architects! They know building as well as a builder knows how to run CAD. Do you know how many sets of jacked up plans we get from engineers and architects? Do you realize they go straight from college to an office, and you honestly are so stupid you think they could possibly be building professionals? They have no idea or business recommending anything. If foam was an investment, it would have a .0001% return Building Performance Analyst #CAN06347

[d1incharge]

The only "professionals" that recommend foam, are professional salesman.

[d1incharge]

And when the old plywood rots because it sees no vapor diffusion or fresh air,, you have to replace all that inslutaion with it. Professionals usually recommend against foam, especially closed cell, that is why it has been around for over 40 years and is being used in less than 1% of new homes.

[fatmanmark]

nice video...i am renovating and wish to remove non structural ceiling rafters(formerly functioned as plater/lathe ceiling support)

local code calls for r40 ceiling

existing roof rafters are 2x4. any sugestions?thanks you

[GB3RND]

R-40 will require approx 7 inches of foam. This can be achieved by adding 2x4s on top of the existing rafters and attaching them with plywood on their sides. The foam then fills the space between.

[d1incharge]

how do you know those joist werent helping to support your ridge? most super old homes that have 2x4 rafers used the ceiling joist as collar ties. Just install rafters under the old ones so that you are left with more that 12" and use batts...foam is a big con.......especially closed cell, which has had major moisture issues, among other things. Spending extra for foam to end up with the same r-value is a complete waste of money.