All you Chevy Idiots should be proud, Chevy's just become the worlds largest car company again, in terms of cars sold, overtaking Toyota, but not before defaulting on 77.5 billion in debt and a 49.5 billion Government Bailout, for which the government still owns 26.5% in stock. Chevy also reported a huge 7 billion $ profit, or less than 1/3 what Ford reported in 2011. Ford's not interested in the sales crown, Ford wants more features and a higher profit margin, and they're succeeding.
Ok stupid vette owners, i just thought id let you know that you paid over 55000 for some cheap recycled plastic with tires that are barely street legal. And if you put the same tires On the shelby you would get fucked
@FirstOnRaceDay004 So you think this car will outperform a ZR1 ?! Im betting the vette will embarass it in every category known to man, so keep dreaming dumb-ass!
@1vdn992 That will be no conciltation to the gt500 owner who just got his ass handed to him. You buy this bull crap about how 285s will suddenly work on a high hp car that is overweight. You and I have had countless arguments about gt500s and Boss mustang being able to outperform GMs best. You have been wrong every single time.
@OgleTorp You've seen one Vette you've seen'em all. Owners of FGTs report, at car shows a crowd gathers round the exotic FGT, you know, the one with the engine in the middle, while at the Vette display you can hear the crickets chirping. Same is true on the streets, nobody looks at a Vette much less take a second look. While Auto week reports, during our test drive people were cranking their necks as if a Ferrari just drove by. Apparently the Boss is more stimulating to onlookers.
@1vdn992 Most people I know look at the Boss then comment about the corny painted wheels and decal package. Maybe you will be really impressed when they bring back the hood sized cobra graphics from the Mustang Cobra 2 of 1978.
@OgleTorp I know it doesn't come close to the 150 hp C3 with the Screamin Turkey on the hood.
Guess what I saw today, a highly modified Black Base Vette, the guy bought a ZO6 badge and pasted it to his fender. It looked and sounded unimpressive though.
See and hear what Angus Mackenzie of Motor Trend thinks of a GS Vette,
@FirstOnRaceDay004 Thats a good story I just hope you kidding the Zr1 will run circles around any gt 500 on the track. The gt 500 is going to be inpressive for the price but dont put it in the Zr1 level
That exactly what this tool does finds the best numbers for Ford and uses it as a bible and trolls for the slowest times for gm and acknowledges only those times don't waste your breath on this jackass
@WelcomeToCarnate - Yes, the GT500 is nose-heavy. From the way Hameedi talks, it sounds like the real reason SVT went with a narrower tire was to compensate for unresponsive steering characteristics.
@StangpedePlus1 - Not quite. ZL1 was quicker through all corners but one. Peak lateral g's don't mean anything when you have to stay off curbs to avoid the live-axle skipping off into oblivion. Also, Boss 302 has underated hp (check it out) and is significantly lighter than ZL1. IMO, it was actually a decent match up.
True statement about tire sizing front to rear to minimize understeer/plowing. However, Ford should have gone bigger front and rear. He should have justified by saying they were trying to minimize unsprung weight for the track. Would have sounded less like B.S.
Corvette Z06, widely regarded as having some of the quickest steering response of any car on the market today(a bit too quick for some reviewers): 275 fronts, 325 rears.
Aside from the live rear axle, Ford has done pretty much everything right with the Mustang, especially the GT500. Even so, it's still one of the slowest 500+hp cars around in every respect. These guys may think 285s are adequate, but the numbers over the years tell a different story. Get with the program, SVT.
@WelcomeToCarnate You're forgetting that this vehicle has an advanced launch control system. If you'd like to see it in action, refer to the 2012 or 2013 Cobra Jet drag car that Ford offers. The '13 GT500 uses the same launch control as the Cobra Jet. It will perform excellent with the selected 285 Goodyear F1 Eagle Supercar G:2 tires that come on the GT500. Jamal Hameedi and the SVT crew have been with and now ahead of the "program". Maybe GM and Chrysler should follow suit.
@LXnastynotch93 No matter how advanced their launch control is, I doubt it's any better than what, say, Porsche offers. And guess what? Even with AWD, the 911 Turbo still uses 305s in the rear.
And the Cobra Jet? Horrible example. You sure it's the launch control and not, say, the fact that it has less than 500hp and is running on drag slicks straight from the factory? And speaking of those slicks, just how wide are they, hm? Most certainly more than 285mm.
@WelcomeToCarnate The Cobra Jet comes with an NHRA limited 445 horsepower. However, they are a flash tune and a pulley swap away from 750+ horsepower (the 4.0L Whipple model). 285mm are also wider than what the Cobra Jet comes on, which is a 9" wide tire.
The point being, this system is more than capable of launching the GT500, even with it's 650 horsepower and wider 285mm tires (11.2"). The Goodyear tires chosen also have a compound that when heated, is near as good as a cheater slick.
@LXnastynotch93 Hm, the slicks on the Jet look a lot bigger than that. Though I suppose the contrast with the fronts does create something of an optical illusion. But still, the car is wearing slicks, which means better traction by default. Near as good still isn't as good, and that WILL be a factor.
And it still doesn't change the fact that this guy's excuse is BS. Most of the best handling cars on the road use wider tires, and they don't need huge fronts to counter understeer.
@WelcomeToCarnate This "guy" is not bs'ing. That's Jamal Hameedi, chief engineer of SVT. That man is responsible for the recent years of awesome SVT products like the GT500 since 2007, the Raptor, the development of the ST Focus to a degree, etc. He knows his stuff. When he and SVT make a decision about a car, it's a well thought out prudent decision. Those tires, especially with that compound, and with the Bilstein dampers, will keep the GT500 well planted.
@LXnastynotch93 I say he's BS-ing because he's sitting there saying things that don't make much sense. Saying they'd need possibly a 295 front tire to counterbalance a 315 rear? And then justifying that by bringing up other well-sorted cars? MOST cars like that DON'T need massive fronts to compensate for big rears. Why doesn't he just say what the real problem is? The Mustang is still too nose-heavy, resulting in more inherent understeer than .
@WelcomeToCarnate Yes, that's exactly why the GT500 needs larger front tires. The tire size, front and rear, is calculated to distribute the front and rear weight bias of the car. That means that as you increase the size of the rear tire, you must continually increase the size of the front tire. For nose heavy cars like the GT500, you would need a 295 front to counterbalance a 315 rear. It's more about a ratio of weight distribution to contact patch size, rather than pure tire size alone.
@LXnastynotch93 I know, and the fact that he's NOT saying that prompts me to say he's BS-ing. He's sitting there talking about how the best handling cars in the world don't need big rear tires, when that's a complete apples/oranges excuse. Most of those cars aren't nearly as nose-heavy as the Mustang. In fact, most are mid or rear-engined, and have the majority of their weight over the rear wheels. But even so, they're still running tires larger than 285s.
@LXnastynotch93 Instead of excuses, he could just say "The Mustang is still a bit too nose-heavy, causing it to understeer. But we feel we've found a great solution to the problem without redesigning the entire chassis and whatnot."
THAT'S more like it. I don't want to hear excuses like "We don't need bigger rear tires because other manufacturers aren't using them". Not only is it untrue, since others ARE using bigger tires, it makes it sound like they're just being stubborn.
@WelcomeToCarnate The fact is that with the launch system that the '13 comes with, larger diameter tires really are not needed. There are 7 ways to Sunday that you can engineer an automobile. In this case, Ford used their technological advancements to make the GT500 handle well and hook with 285mm rear tires. The S197 Mustang is by nature a front heavy car, and getting it to run with a Ford GT around a road is a huge merit to the SVT team.
@LXnastynotch93 Yes, those are the facts, but that's NOT what he said. The excuse he gave for not using bigger tires is the supposed "fact" that other well-handling cars don't need them. That's not true, and it's an apples/oranges comparison because virtually none of the cars in that group are nearly as nose-heavy as the Mustang. The Nissan GT-R comes close, and even it was criticized for understeer in the early days.
@WelcomeToCarnate On eBay, 2012 4 seat Boss, 16 miles on the clock, Orange w/white stripping, comes with Recaros, Torsen, Car Cover, C/Mats. Does 60 in 4.0s and a 12.3s 1/4 B/stock. Buy it Now Dealer $43,575 and less than 200 miles away.
2012 Vette GS, as tested over $72,000 Motor Trend
2012 Vette GS, 60 in 4.4s and a 12.4s 1/4 mile, Edmunds
30,000 extra for a minimal performance gain & much bigger tires, I couldn't be happier with a Boss Mustang.
@1vdn992 1: Bone stock 'Vette GS has run a Motor Trend verified 3.9sec 0-60 and a 12.2 1/4 mile. Price as tested then, $57,310.
2: 2012 Boss 302, 60 in 4.4s and a 12.4s 1/4 mile, MotorWeek. See? I can look around and post the worst numbers I can find for the sake of furthering my own argument, too.
3: I bought a Boss 302, so all your Ford propaganda doesn't mean anything to me. I already know what the 302 is capable of, just like I know what a 'Vette is capable of.
@WelcomeToCarnate This is a massive amount of power, so much so that no amount of rubber can appropriately cope. As such, its 0-60 time is only 0.1 second less than the Z06 even if it actually feels much quicker. Its fuel economy is 14/20/16.
@1vdn992 0.1 second quicker? Once again, ZR1 has run a Motor Trend verified 3.3s 0-60 and an 11.2s 1/4 mile.
Should I start talking shit about the Super Snake? Still running low 4s to 60 and low 12s in the 1/4 mile even with 700+hp? No, I won't stoop to your level. You can be a little fanboy and bash whatever you want. I'll stick with being unbiased, thank you.
@WelcomeToCarnate Your wasting your time with this troll and clown fan boy this is the same guy that says it costs 4000 a year for insurance on a vette lol
@gmrtg1414 Oh, I know all about this guy. I've gotten into it with him several times before. Doesn't care about the facts unless they support his argument, and is quick to call anyone who doesn't recognise the sheer awesomeness that is the Mustang a fanboy.
Hell, I bought a Boss 302 because it was so highly praised, and I told him that. Yet here he is, still rambling on about Corvettes.
The Z06 is powered by a 7.0-liter V8 that produces 505 hp and 470 lb-ft of torque. We found that it hits 60 mph in 3.9 seconds. Fuel economy is again pretty good at 15/24/18. The ZR1 gets a supercharged version of the 6.2-liter V8 that cranks out 638 hp and 604 lb-ft.
Not to mention Vettes have poor resale value, AKA, Vettes are a dime a dozen.
@1vdn992 The Z06 has run a Motor Trend verified 3.5s 0-60 and a, 11.5s 1/4 mile. Still finding the worst numbers you can, eh?
Also, 'Vettes have been consistently ranked as having some of the best resale value of any sports car on the market. After 5 years, a given 'Vette and a 'Stang will both hold about 50% of their value. And are you really going to talk about cars being a "dime a dozen" when you're talking about Mustangs? You want to be the pot, or the kettle?
@WelcomeToCarnate Yeah sure Mr. Ranger, Motor Trend, Best Drivers Car Comparison, Corvette ZO7 as tested $105,000 and at 3300 # the 2 seat Vette rips to 60 in 3.8s powered by the 7.0L LS Loser Series and 345 Cheater Tired stickys in the rear. That's about as impressive as your knowledge of cars.
@1vdn992 My knowledge of cars FAR outclasses yours.
It doesn't matter what the Z07 package ran in that test; it's OFFICIAL record is 3.5 and 11.5. You can dispute that all you like, it just exposes you for the whiny little tool that you are. "Cheater slicks, cheater slicks, no fair!" oh, shut the hell up you little monkey! The Boss 302 LS is wearing PZero Corsas; tires with a tread wear rating even lower than the Sport Cups! I don't see you bitching about those.
btw, I saw a highly modified Black base Vette today, the guy put a fender badge on it that said ZO6. It didn't sound special, it didn't look special but I guess that's the way you Chevy guys like it. Current reviews say the GSs Cabin Tech is Crude, the Seats are still Garbage, it rides like a truck, and the Car flexes over every little bump, indicative of poor structural integrity, and the tranny shifts like a Semi.
@1vdn992 Source on what? Performance? Motor Trend, ditchweed. Resale values? Automobile Magazine, AOL Autos, Kelley Blue Book, Consumer Reports and Yahoo's automotive articles. And I believe Edmunds had an article where the base 'Vette was just barely edged out by the GT500 in terms of retained value by some 1%(47 to 48).
Yeah, because all Mustangs look and sound so very special. In fact, last month I saw a V6 'Stang dressed up to look like a something out of a Need For Speed game.
@1vdn992 Still rambling on about Corvettes, on a Mustang video, hm? Let me remind you that I've never defended the 'Vette's shit interior. So you spouting off about it doesn't mean anything to me. And guess what? My Z06 has a full Caravaggio interior, with Daytona racing seats, alcantara, leather and/or carbon fiber on every surface. It also has an aftermarket infotainment system installed. But you just keep yacking; no one really listens to your bullshit anyway.
@1vdn992 And let's not forget you're talking up cars you don't even own! How pathetic is that? I OWN a Boss 302, 'kay? So I'm FAR more qualified to talk about it than you are. A also own a Z06, meaning I'm FAR more qualified to talk about 'Vettes as well.
So why don't you go back under your little bridge and let the grown-ups talk, hm?
As for the tires, 650hp and 285s don't mix. Wouldn't be surprised if the Zl1 is quicker to 60 and close in the quarter because the stang won't hook. The tire size is a mistake.
To those saying the boss handles better the 2011 gt500 ran 1:25 vs the Laguna seca boss at 1:26 on streets of willow same day same driver. That's on a very short and technical course. I love the boss but the 2013 gt500 is going to destroy it even on a roadcourse.
This guy isn't a very good speaker, it's like he's trying to remember words from a script. Regardless, Ford/SVT did an amazing job - can't wait for the reviews!
It's unfortunate that all this hype was put into the ZL1 just for it to be crapped on right as its release. It was made to compete with the Gt500 and the GT500 is 200 pounds lighter and makes 70 more hp lol.
Do the math. GT500 is 200 pounds lighter than the ZL1 and makes 70 more hp. If the ZL1 could barely hold it's own against the Boss, it certainly won't against the GT500.
And BTW, the ZL1 didn't out handle the Boss. Tests showed the Boss pulled a higher lateral acceleration. The Camaro won because it had 136 more hp.
Just to clarify, the the ZL1 did not out handle the Boss on the track. The specs said the Boss pulled a higher lateral acceleration than the Camaro did, which means it handles better in turns. In other words, the Camaro won on the track because of power output, and not handling. If you look at the track, there was a very long straight away for the Camaro to utilize its 136 more hp than the Boss. So yeah, the Gt500 is going to embarrass the ZL1 on the track considering the ZL1 barely held its ow
Amazing...it takes 5+ years to "dial out under-steer," makes me really happy I bought a 2010 Camaro SS. I've been spending 2+ years "dialing in power-steering" with my right foot.
And I never said GM sucks at handling, MR is a great technology and the V series and Corvette and the new ZL1 handle great for what they are, but in the case of pony cars the ZL1's weight is holding it back.
The ZL1 weight distribution is 51/49, as for power the 5.4 mod motor is good for 1000hp with a stock block. Now that its a 5.8 with a stock forged rotating assembly... I'm dreaming, but if Ford decides to make a new GT supercar the Bugatti Veyron might have a problem.
And a lot of people mistake grip for handling. They are not the same thing, which is what Jamal Hameedi is trying to explain in this video. If you put to much tire in the back, the front breaks first and the car understeers. Put too much grip in the front and it oversteers. In order to make a car feel balanced, you want both tires to break traction at about the same time, save for power oversteer.
@EatmyDust1311 this is vid is just an excuse as to why ford can not put larger tires on the current unibody mustang platform... basically, you would have to do serious redesigning to the whole car.. which ford is not interested in b/c of the cost and with the new mustang coming out in a few years. The camaro/ZL1 was designed with this in mind. Im sure the next stang will be also
continued....This has nothing to do with brand preference either... The ZL1 simply will have the better suited chassis to handle the power and that power will negate the weight advantage as well.
Also, the 2013 GT500 was developed on the Nurburgring as well, GM just made a lot more noise about it than Ford did. You can find a lot of pics and spy shots of it online. The Corvette is a 50-130k 2 seat sports car, the Zr1 is not even comparable to the Mustang. The Mustang was introduced in 1964, years after the Corvette came out but Chevy found it neccessary to make the Camaro to compete with it. Compare apples to apples. Corvette = sports car, Mustang/Camaro = pony cars with back seats.
@EatmyDust1311 The only car you mentioned with more HP was the C63 AMG which weighed more than the Boss and only had 40 more HP. A Lotus Evora and Cayman do not have more HP but still barely lost.
However you are the first Mustang guy to akowledege the fact that the Mustang is not a sports car bravo. Tell that guys like 1vdn992
@Greendude33 Those cars are mid engined and weigh a few hundred pounds less, not to mention the Porsche starts at $70,000 with PDK. The Boss 302/ Boss 302 LS might be sports cars, but not in the sense a Vette is. The Mustang is a good handling car by any measue, but when you put it up against a car built with less comprimises for practicality at a higher price point, you sort of expect one to be faster than the other.
@EatmyDust1311 The Porsche and Lotus barely lost fractions of a second to the Boss time at VIR was b/c they were underpowered in the final straight... Now as for the Vette there is no arguement there, the Mustang does not compete with the Corvette. Everywhere they went head to head even the base C6 Z51 beat the Boss and GT500.
I won't fault the Mustang or any pony car for losing to a Corvette though, that's like saying you you're a terrible boxer b/c you lost to Mike Tyson.
@Greendude33 While I dont disagree the Boss's power helps its lap times, if it had poor handling it wouldnt be able to beat the Cayam R around a track, long straight or no, because VIR has some very technical corners where weight tracition and stability are important. The Boss 302 and Corvette are no doubt the bast bang-for-buck cars in the world right now, but do not compete with each other. The Mustang competes with Camaro, and is faster in every measure.
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is only faster than the Camaro b/c GM rushed the release and decided to use a sedan chassis. The ZL1 b/c of the better CTS-V chassis and suspension components will be faster than the Boss 302 and new GT500 around the track. The current Mustang's biggest victory was the 5.0 over the SS. The ZL1 will domonstrate the importance chassis and suspension tech plays in performance.
@Greendude33 GM sushing the Camaro out the door (which I dont believe- its a tried and true rwd chassis that can take a lot of power) doesnt give me a whole lot of confidence in it. the ZL1 uses the same chassis the other Camaros do so I dont know what your talking about. The suspension will have MR, but the new GT500 has new suspension tricks as well as launch control. As for performance, all we know the the GT500 has 70 more hp and weighs hundreds of pounds less.
@EatmyDust1311 The new GT500 like the current 750+HP Supersnakes will spin most of their power away I don't expect the 70HP bump to be much of a factor esp in the corners. The chassis design of all current Mustangs limit the effectiveness of their power. The ZL1's CTS-V MR, limited slip diff and coilovers will be the difference. This isnt 1969 and adding power alone doesnt guarantee victory
@Greendude33 As was mentioned in the video above, the new car is geared to put less torque to the wheels for an easier launch. It also has a torsen diff like the Boss. The chassis of the Camaro limits it too, more though because of weight. Im not saying the ZL1 is a bad car, but it is DOA. Ford bitchslapped Chevy before the damn thing even went on sale. And the Camaro is going to remain the Shelby's bitch until the Corvette ZR1 gets 700hp and raises the hp limit on the Camaro.
@EatmyDust1311 won't be long... the 500hp LS 5.5 is already in testing by pratt & miller. "bitchslapped"? I wouldn't quite say that. the ZL-1 already laid waste to the Boss. Doesn't look like its chassis limited it there, btw, they're both unibodys. We'll wait and see what the GT500 does to the ZL-1. Yeah, the ZL-1 weighs more but is way more evenly distributed than the GT500 or Boss. ZL-1 52/48 GT500 58/42, which is very important. How the hell did an engineer overlook this?
@BEBNC1 Well the 2011 GT500 weight distribution is 56/44 for the coupe, so your wrong about that. Second, the ZL1 didn't "lay waste" to anything it doesnt compete with, and the handling of the Boss is better than anything GM makes, save maybe the Zo6. Third, I cant think of a body-on-frame car that is still being built, so saying they are unibody isn't news to anybody.
@EatmyDust1311 Wrong bud... corvette uses a fully integrated tubular frame (no need for stabilizer bars)... as MANY sports cars do (there some new for you). handling on the Boss (some 500lbs lighter) is better... debatable. Thats not what Randy Probst said. Base GS/Z51 vette handles better than ANY mustang to date.. and its not even close. Don't try to pull a select track either. C&D got 2.58 on VIR with the GS, what did C&D get with the Boss? "save maybe the Z06", you really want to go there?
@BEBNC1 the Corvette is faster, and has MR and carbon brakes, is a better track car. Randy Probst knocked the Vette (unfairly) for using Cup tires, but not the Porsche on Cup tires (wtf?) As for stabilizer bars, the Corvette uses a transverse leaf spring that acts like a stabilizer bar. Im not biased but you can't compare the 'Vette to the 'Stang. Compared to every other car GM makes, the Boss is a better handler.
@EatmyDust1311 yes, the vette use transverse leafs... but not for the same sense of stabilization as unibody cars do. they use them for body "flex". yes the Boss is a great car... more so than the GT500 IMO. the platform just seems to "work" better than anything ford made. although the ZL1 is a great handling car, agree that it is overweight by at least 300lbs but the IRS, MSR, wider stance, lower center, longer wheelbase (vs mustang) do make for a hell cornering machine for its weight
@EatmyDust1311 "the handling of the Boss is better than anything GM makes, save maybe the Z06". Really? you seem to be really biased. The whole corvette lineup handles better than the Boss and if you want to argue it i'm ready. Its not even really in the same class. Yeah, GM sucks at handling, guess thats why Ferrari, BMW, Acura etc etc purchased licensing rights from Delphi (founded by GM) for the MSR technology.
@BEBNC1 It's no disgrace for a 3600 lb 4 seater with a 5.0L to lose to a 3300 lb 2 seater with a 6.2L. It's no disgrace losing to a car that costs a lot more money. The Boss Mustang has great HP potential for not much money, a new Exhaust/ TB/CAI/Tune, has shown a 60 whp gain, add the Vettes cheater tires at the track and you have my style. What's amazing is both Boss Mustangs are faster to 60 and the 1/4 bone stock than an 08 Z51 Vette, FASTESTLAPS
Not as agile or refined as some of its competitors; old-fashioned interior.
The current-generation (C6) Corvette debuted in 2005, and although we wouldn't say it's past its prime, it's definitely feeling its age. The cabin lacks the sophistication, quality and craftsmanship of other sporting cars in its price range, while its many electronics controls still use the previous generation of GM switchgear.
@1vdn992 Mustang interior is such amazing quality right down to all the plastic chrome rings around the door speakers. If you your looking for top notch interior mustangs and corvettes aint it. Buy a BMW or Benz.
@EatmyDust1311 the GM patented MR suspension is light years ahead of what ford is offering in the new GT500 and the Boss. The GT500 should certainly be better in a straight line... should be, but cornering should be interesting b/t the two, even though the ZL1 weighs 300lbs more. We will find out in a few months
Part 4 Final Part.....u vanished in 2002 & came back in '10 dat 8yrs 2get ur shit 2gether & u still choose 2come back with a heavy car, but thats Fords fault right? Now ur facin a more powerful lighter car & we still hv the smallest engine!!!! WTF?! We havent even touch 6.0L in a Stang yet smh. See u fuckers hv a glass jaw, & r not use to takin a punch. Stop cryin & shit & man the fuck up. CLASS DISMISSED!
@BossShinoda98 "smallest engine", the pushrod 16v LS2, LS3, LS7, LS9 are all either smaller or the same size as the 4cam 32v TIVCT 5.0. The LS7 7.0 weighs the same as the 5.0 and is dimensionally smaller. LS9 weighs roughly 540lbs and the supercharged 5.8 Trinity engine is at 630lbs. "haven't touched 6.0" LOL, go learn something about a damn engine. Read this: fastestlaps(DOTCOM)/articles/horsepower_per_liter_it_is_serious_business Ford and GM both make great engines... YOU FAIL
@BEBNC1 Ok let me explain something to u b4 u tell me I need to learn something about a damn engine....yes the push rod motors Chevy uses are smaller dimensionally, i got that, however what I was more so referring to is displacement the are larger in displacement. Ford does more with less i.e. 444 out of 5.0 vs 426 out of 6.2 but wait cause I know ur gonna flex about the lack of tq, but the 5.8 (smaller again displacement wise) 650hp/600tq vs Zl1 6.2 580hp/556tq....part 1....
@BEBNC1 Part 2, watch out if Ford makes a 6L motor cuz liter for liter the DOHC (hp wise) is more powerful than the pushrod, & make no mistake about it, chevy loves the pushrod its a simple, effective powerplant. They WILL eventually fold and go DOHC look at da V6 Camaro its DOHC, funnny I remember just yesteryear chevy fans talkin bout how Chevy would never use a blower, "no replacement for displacement" blah blah blah, oh the times hv changed, so no my friend I didnt fail, no not at all.
@BEBNC1 All shit talking aside you are right and I totally agree both Company's make awesome power plants. To be frank there are pros and cons to each....to name a few Push Rod is a proven platform, easier & cheaper to work on, typically produces more tq, and generally dimensionally smaller dont need be spun to the moon to make power. DOHC had to grow/prove itself (sucked for ford in 96-10 lol) more expensive to work on, later ones obvioulsy started making more power with less displacement.
The March issue has a pretty good article on the '13 GT500, focusing on the engine most of all.
Of particular note, with respect to a shot of the dyno computer screen: "The 650 HP rating is at the maximum continuous RPM of 6250, but the redline is 7000, at which point we saw 670+ HP on the screen. But Ford probably doesn't want you to know that."
Part 3......As far as sales go gimmie a fucking break da last time Camaro out sold a stang was 85 so in '10 da Camaro outsold the stang thats 25yrs da the (weaker less powerful underdog) stang has outsold both da TransAm & da Camaro so when u hv dat kind of time in, then talk 2me about sales, u got 22yrs left, str8. Now lets talk bout weight 4 a min cuz Im sick of that shit 2, u GM guys keep bitchin about weight, smh.......Part 3 Continued.....
Part 2 continued...All of a sudden power also seems not 2matter when ur the weaker of the 2. Oh & since when da fuck did GM give a fuck about sells? Beside don't u fucks still owe the gov. a few billion dollars so its not like your enjoying ur profits as of April 2010 you owed Canada (fucking Canada?) 8Bil & da US 40Bil........Part 2 Continued.....
CLASS IN SESSION BITCHES! 1st it was "The stang is slow & weak," then it was "oh the stang can't make power with out a blower," now it's oh the stang is only runnin shit cuz its lighter." Now that we hv both a lighter faster & more powerful stang it's, "the camaro has a more advanced suspension & is outselling the stang, power & straight line performance (which by the way straight line is exactly what a muscle car is about) isnt everything." .........Continued
Come on guys, dont feed the GM trolls. They have nothing better to do than compare this car to a Vette, which automatically qualifies them as an idiot.
@FoodMoTron3k Hell yea cause even the gm guys know the zl1 doesnt stand a chance against this monster. the zl1 is loving life right now wait till motor trend puts it up against this
@ericlathamable Just curious if you think the GT500 is going to outhandle the Boss? I dont think it will. Keep in mind that the ZL1 spanked the Boss by 4 seconds a lap in the latest MT.
@OgleTorp ehh thats a hard one. honestly i dont think it will "outhandle" the boss but i do believe it will be faster around a track. why? the 650 hp will obviously tear up the straits and as far as the corners i think the svt has done some serious work to the 2013 gt500 everywhere else besides the engine. i think the 2013 gt500 especially with the performance pack and track pack is gonna be a huge step over the 2012
@ericlathamable I guess time will tell. Ford seriously needs to get this car in balance and get some rubber under it to contend with the ZL1 in my opinion.
@OgleTorp yea i could be wrong but hey i hoping they have finally learned they cant just throw in more power, what they need to do is get the damn thing to mt so we can see what it can doo
it was 2.45 seconds i believe. it would have been embarrassing for a 6.2L SC car with a "sophisticated suspension" not to beat a 5.0L NA car with a solid rear axle around the track.
They should have used bigger tires. The Camaro ZL1 was meant to kill the heavier GT500. Neither of these cars were meant to handle that good. I believe the ZL1 was made to handle so it could take out not only the GT500 but the Boss. Let's face it, most GT500 owners are not going to use it at a race track where you have to worry about understeer. The GT500 is a drag strip beast that has long needed some fat rubber at the back.
@elr456 The NA 5.0L Boss Mustang has been independently verifed as doing 60 in 3.93 & 3.97s bone stock and costs $44,000 with Recaros and the Torsen. Chevy says the 6.2L SC ZL1 will do 60 in 4.0s 6M, & 3.9s 6A and gets 12 mpg city driving economically, not to mention getting slapped with the Gas Guzzler tax, and the Boss 17.
Boss Mustang test drive,
watch?v=8TuepBVyZPg
Looks like Chevy needs a supercharger just to keep up with Ford.
correct me if im wrong, but this engineer is comparing 500hp 2900-3500lbs german cars to a 3900lb 650hp pony car...yes u have to balance the front tires with the rear and bigger fronts do induce understeer w/o proper suspension setup, but why go with the smallest set? 315s and 245s/265s would have been waay better...and if understeer is such an issue, ditch the solid axle...but as it sits, launch control or not, this GT500 is gonna have the same old problem...NO TRACTION...
i love the mustang, but he says "um" and "uh" way too much, dont get me wrong, he knows more about it than i do, i just thought it was funny how he talked.
I love and own a mustang, but anyone would know that the bigger tires will allow more power in the corners too . The corvette handles great and it has huge rear tires, I think 335's. The real reason they did this was warranty. If a 650hp car got a really hard bite, it would be ultra hard on the car's drive train. Thats why a progressive traction control system is better for the car, but bigger tires should be in every gt500 owner's future. This guy doesnt seem to know what he is talking about.
@NoUtubeDegree he was simply stating that the larger rear tire requires a larger front tire which degrades steering feel and precision. Not sure what you don't understand about that. Obviously a larger tire will mean more cornering force and grip, but Ford had to make a decision and they chose to comprimise increased cornering for improved the steering feel. There's always a give and take when designing a performance car. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
@wolfpacguy I understand what he was stating and I understand this was the only excuse he could give, but the car undoubtedly needs bigger tires. Bigger tires really wont effect steering feel and if they did then Ford should be able to correct that in the new adjustable shocks and steering setup of the car. I understand Fords decision but not for the same reasons as he said. Its still a kick ass car and will handle like a dream, but hopefully it will launch hard too.
@NoUtubeDegree He said big tires are great for the Drag Strip, or the Closed Course, but this car is engineered to be an all around car and that said it'll kill its copycat competition the ZL1, which gets an epa rated 12 city and gets slapped with a gas guzzler tax, and this 650 hp beast doesn't. Chevy is a bankrupt car company that puts cheater slicks on their Vettes that have Cobalt interiors, $105,000 for a ZO7 that does 60 in 3.8s & 11.8s 1/4, thank god Ford didn't copy them.
@1vdn992 Yes thank god Ford didn't copy Chevy, because then Chevy would actually have competition. Z06 will still put a whooping on this sillysnake, drag and track. I love the "all around car" excuse for being sub-par.
@pali311 Well said. The only true performance car Ford ever made was the GT that actually performed great in every category. When the ZL1 and GT500 are compared they will both shine at certain things but a ZO6 will whip them both just like it always has.
@pali311 Let me just compare the GT to the camaro and we will call it even. Again they are 2 different cars at 2 different price ranges. Although since the camaro is so slow the mustang gets compared to the vette.
@NoUtubeDegree Yeah, Camaros are so slow?! The mustang is Fords top performance car and Corvette is Chevrolets. Would love to see a test with GT500 and a ZR1. The ZR1 will prove once again its the Total Package and will dominate the GT500 in every segment just like the ZO6 has done forvever.
@OgleTorp Every Chevy guy falls back to that lame argument, well let's just compare it to a ZR1. Sure at $120,000.00 It had better outperform a $60,000.00 car. It's DOUBLE the cost! Lame sauce chevy boys...
@BravoII Guess you forgot that the GT cost about 90k more than the Zo6 and it gave the Gt all it could handle. For less money the ZR1 still outperforms the GT. If you think its a lame argument how do feel about sportbikes costing between 10-15k that will eat ZR1s and GTs without breaking a sweat.
@OgleTorp Sure and always will be this vs that but we should keep (as much as possible) apples to apples. The Camaro Grocery Getter, vs the Mustang Grocery Getter. The Top Camaro vs The Top Stang. Until Ford comes back with another GT there is no current Ford competitor to the Corvette. Trying to compare a Mustang to a Corvette simply will never work.
@BravoII Right and now matter how much you try to explain its camaro vs mustang and not corvette vs mustang. Chevy fan boys will only go for the camaro vs mustang if its beating it for that year. As soon as the mustang poses a threat they run to the vette. I remember when they use to bitch about how ford couldnt do shit with the mustang without a blower....the 5.0 Mustang GT and Boss 302 changed everything. & now everyone has a blower..now they wanna bitch about weight...lmaoo it will never end.
@BossShinoda98 Its performance car vs performance car. Mustang guys only use the excuse of not being in the class of corvettes, nobody else. One minute you guys duck a corvette and the next you are racing a cavalier with a fart can.
@OgleTorp Yeah, all you have to do is spend another 50 grand on an impractical 2 seater that's going to do nothing but lose you money and just maybe you can keep up with a 2013 GT500 to 60, but I doubt it.
@1vdn992 Thats ZR1 money my friend. Zr1 will dust the new GT500 in every single performance category known to man. GT500s have an amazing engine but are too heavy and way undertired. GT500 will have its hands full with the ZL1 which you claim is complete garbage.
@OgleTorp If I remember correctly the Boss Mustang does 60 in 3.93 & 3.97s to 60, independently verfied, and the late in the day ZL1 does 60 in 4.0s with a 6M.
Not to mention Ford's done something they haven't done since 1970 and that's to increase their market share 3 years in a row and analysts believe they're going to extend that streak to 4.
Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks ZO6s/ZO7s aren't worth the money as evidenced by their small sales figures.
@1vdn992 If I remember correctly you said the Boss would outperform the ZO6! Let me know when your episode of Intervention airs to get you off the crack your on.
@1vdn992 Thats the problem you dont remember shit. The ZL1 just posted a 3.8 and a 12.1 in print from Motor Trend. You know in the same issue it smoked the boss L/S fords track ready car smart guy!!! Wow a 4200 pound car slapping the shit out of Fords 2 seat track car. I thought the camaro was to heavy to go around the track just proves you FORD TOOLS and TROLLS wrong.
@gmrtg1414 Soo the hot s*** Supercharged 6.2L ZL1 is barely quicker than a Normally Aspirated 5.0L Boss Mustang with a 6M, that sounds like par for the course. Here's a Boss Mustang with TracKey and the baffles removed which nobody has tested yet,
atch?v=EEX7TeSAQS4
and a Boss Mustang with a few bolt-ons on the dyno,
@1vdn992 The ZL1 is not released yet dumbass and it will be more more than barely quicker it will have magnetic selective suspension and a CTS-V limited slip diff. It will be over 20 seconds faster than a Boss at the Ring if Ford grew a pair and ran there.
@Greendude33: Dont worry, the new GT500 will run at the Nurburgring. And according to Car and Driver magazine, they have already tested the new GT500. And they are already saying that it puts the power down better than the previous GT500 because of its new enhanced rear spoiler. Also the new GT500 has adjustable dampers and suspension settings as well as launch control. This car will definitely at least put up a 7:35 nurburgring lap time.
@V8Supercar17:35 is where you went all wrong on your lie... That will not happen that would imply that a GT500 is faster than the Ford GT on the most technical track it has ran on.
The 2013 GT500 will be very lucky to get barely under 8 mins and that's the best case scenario... A 650HP engine on a live axled 3900lb pony car will not put it into Ford GT and Ferrari 430 Scud territory.
@Greendude33: The Ford GT was not competitively pushed on the Ring. They did a run in the Gt with other traffic on the track. Secondly. Why is it that the mustang GT 5.0 is quicker in a straight line and around a track vs. the camaro SS, even though the SS has slightly more HP?? IRS has not given the camaros any advantage over the mustangs this generation.
@V8Supercar1 First off it's weight that helps the 5.0 beat the SS by no means is it the chassis and suspension. The Camaro uses a heavy sedan chassis b/c GM did not want to delay the Camaro release and waste money on a new chaasis. The current SS is more G8 than Camaro. The ZL1 using CTS-V tech will actually be able to use all of its power and put it to the ground, the 2013 GT500 is not going to feel that much more powerful esp through corners and in lower gears.
@Greendude33: "First off it's weight that helps the 5.0 beat the SS by no means is it the chassis and suspension."
lol Okay with that said. The GT500 is also lighter than the ZL1 by around 250lbs. And you add the fact that it has 70+ more HP than the ZL1, adjustable damper settings, adjustable trac control settings + more down force than the old GT500 due to the spoiler. There is no way this car is not gonna beat the Camaro's Ring time.
@V8Supercar1 You're on drugs if you think the ZL1 will weigh the same as a CTS-V sedan... GM estimated it would be around 3900lbs which is only 100lbs more than a GT500.
The ZL1 will have a far more advanced chassis and suspension setup cmon everyone knows that, it will have magnetic dmapers, double wishbone coilovers and the LSD which is all soured from the CTS-V which is a 4200lb luxury sedan than kicks the current GT500's ass on track and strip.
@Greendude33: lol I guess I'm on drugs then. Because its listed in the latest edition of car and driver magazine that the Camaro ZL1 weighs 4,120 lbs and the GT500 weighs 3,850 lbs. lol Yeah I'm the one on drugs for thinking that a car with a superior power to weight ratio over the other is gonna be faster around a track. You see, your problem is. You are thinking like the new GT500 has the same suspension as the old one. to be continued....
@V8Supercar1 Power/weight ratios are for straight line acceleration... Do you know anything about cars or physics? By your logic ultra light top fuel dragsters with the best power/weight ratios should be the fastest track cars on the planet. The ZL1 is not going to weight as much as a luxury sedan wishful thinking on your part.
And yes the 2013 other than the engine will be the exact same chassis as the current GT500 and the oregon trail wagon tech live axle will still be there.
@Greendude33: I think you must be illiterate. Because I've already told you that Car and Driver has already tested both the ZL1 and the new GT500. They weighed both the ZL1 and the GT500. And if you think that the new GT500 will have the same suspension as the old one, you clearly have not done your homework on the new car. All you have to do is go to caranddriverDOTcom. They've got full 100% complete breakdowns of both cars. What do you think I've been making up this info?????
The March issue has a pretty good article on the '13 GT500, focusing on the engine most of all.
Of particular note, with respect to a shot of the dyno computer screen: "The 650 HP rating is at the maximum continuous RPM of 6250, but the redline is 7000, at which point we saw 670+ HP on the screen. But Ford probably doesn't want you to know that."
@Greendude33 Weight affects every aspect of performance- acceleration brking and cornering. The Nurburgring is not a technical track, just a long ass track with mostly wide sweeping turns. And if you want to bash the live axle, tell me why the Camaro still has a pushrod engine while the Mustang has 4 valve per cylinder, DOHC motor with ti-vct and 112 hp per liter and no guzzler tax while the ZL1 has 93 hp per liter and a guzzler tax?
@EatmyDust1311 No a balanced chassis with advanced suspension components and aerodynamic downforce is the formula for cornering. This is why Formula One cars are ultra light with huge spoilers and splitters to create downforce through corners. Weight is a pure liability in racing esp through corners.
PS There is no parallel between a live axle and an OHV engine... HP is HP regardless of how it is made...
@Greendude33 The mustang is on a dedicated sports car platform while the camaro uses a sedan platform. It is a few hundred pounds lighter, and that makes a big difference. mustang 1, camaro 0.
PS lap times are lap times, no matter how they are achieved. The mustang is faster around most race tracks, therefore is a better handler even with a live axle. The Corvette isnt held back by its leaf springs, nor is the 911 handicapeed by its ass engined layout. they have just been refined.
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is not a Sports Car end of story... Pony Car/Muscle Car would be the correct term. The Mustang's greatest victory was over the Camaro SS, I assure you the ZL1 with CTS-V tech will actually use all 580HP and will not lose to any production Mustang esp the new GT500 which will not be able to put all its power down. You read it here first.
The Corvette has a Transverse LS which is not used in a suspension application, it still has double wishbones.
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is not a Sports Car end of story... Pony Car/Muscle Car would be the correct term. The Mustang's greatest victory was over the Camaro SS, I assure you the ZL1 with CTS-V tech will actually use all 580HP and will not lose to any production Mustang esp the new GT500 which will not be able to put all its power down. You read it here first.
The Corvette has a Transverse LS which is not used in a suspension application, it still has double wishbones.
@Greendude33 The Mustang GT is on par with the e92 M3. That makes ia a sports car. It has a much better handling balance than the Camaro, is much lighter and beats it with less horsepower. When Motortrend compared the GT to the M3 they said it understeered less and felt lighter. And its also faster in a straight line. In 2015, the Mustang gets a new platform as well.
@EatmyDust1311 Don't start this shit... A pro on one mild amateur track managed to push a GT to an M3 competitive time. The difference is that Helen Keller could get an M3 around just as fast. This isolated incident does not justify a live axle.
The Camaro gets the 3300lb alpha platform in 2014, let's see if Ford can get a car with an advanced IRS to weigh close to that. And If the next gen Camaros will weigh 3300lbs imagine how light the C7 Vette will be.
@EatmyDust1311 When any live axled Mustang gets under 8 mins at the Nurburgring then maybe we can toy with the idea... Untill then no one cares if a pro can push a 5.0 to compete with an M3 at a very mellow track. Fact is it has no documented runs on benchmark tracks like the Ring that has turns that would actually put a live axle under stress.
When it competes on the big boy tracks let me know...
@Greendude33 In Car&Drivers Lightning Lap 2012, the Bos 302 LS lapped VIR, one of the best racetracks in the world, in 3:02.8. For comparison, on the same day with the same driver (which eliminates the HUGE credibility issue Ring times have) a C63 AMG coupe did it in 3:06, a Lotus Evora S 3:05, Cayman R 3:03.9 ect... The Nurburgring is very flawed benchmark track. Conditions vary too much. And it is NOT a technical track!
@EatmyDust1311 I remember when you were trying to compare it to the Corvette and it's funny that you mention VIR where it lost to all current Corvette models even the base Z51 and got anhilated by the Z06. So what do you do, you mention other cars with far less HP that barely lost b/c of the final straight. The Mustang is out of its league at the Ring and you know it.
Nurburgring not technical? You know crack cocaine is illegal right?
@Greendude33 No, some of those cars I mentioned have considerably more power than the Boss and all of them cost a lot. more. They are all examples of Europe's finest sports cars, and the Mustang still beats them around a strack with less power and a live axle. VIR is one of the most challenging tracks in the world, and the Rings only outstanding feature is that it's 13 miles long. The Ring is a fast course with a very long straight as well.
@Greendude33: continued... The CTSV may have beaten the GT500, but the boss 302 mustang with100HP less than the CTSV has beaten the CTSV around the laguna, the Hockenheim Short, the Virginia International Raceway, and the Sachsenring. The new GT500 will have the same suspension setup as the boss, but with even more upgrades.
@V8Supercar1 The Boss has only ran at joke tracks with mild turns Laguna Seca has the corkscrew and nothing else special. The Boss would not even be under 8 mins at the Ring with 147 technical turns and hundreds of elevation changes and sloping uneven road surfaces and turns.
PS the only Boss to beat the CTS-V was the stripped LS edition Boss, I could put Rosie O Donnel in the back seat of a CTS-V eating a cake and would have no problem keeping up with a Boss that is not poised.
@OgleTorp umm.. you do know the GT500 weighs 3820lbs and the Zr1 weighs 4120lbs. now, last time i checked, 3820 is less than 4120. make sure you got the facts before you run your mouth. ok pumpkin?
@nicp90 GM has not released any official curb weight numbers nice try... You're a wishful thinker if you think it will weigh the same as a CTS-V sedan which is already faster than the GT500 might I add.
@1vdn992 It will get dusted on the Nurburgring by the ZL1 mark my words... Live axles are shit for corners and only look good on amateur tracks with joke turns. The GT500 will be wrapped around a tree at the green hell.
All Mustangs will be even more of a joke when the Camaro gets the 3300lb Alpha chassis and C7 Corvette engine and transmission tech. Ford will never make a chassis that light with IRS.
All you Chevy Idiots should be proud, Chevy's just become the worlds largest car company again, in terms of cars sold, overtaking Toyota, but not before defaulting on 77.5 billion in debt and a 49.5 billion Government Bailout, for which the government still owns 26.5% in stock. Chevy also reported a huge 7 billion $ profit, or less than 1/3 what Ford reported in 2011. Ford's not interested in the sales crown, Ford wants more features and a higher profit margin, and they're succeeding.
FoMoCo
1vdn992 6 days ago
Ok stupid vette owners, i just thought id let you know that you paid over 55000 for some cheap recycled plastic with tires that are barely street legal. And if you put the same tires On the shelby you would get fucked
FirstOnRaceDay004 1 week ago
@FirstOnRaceDay004 So you think this car will outperform a ZR1 ?! Im betting the vette will embarass it in every category known to man, so keep dreaming dumb-ass!
OgleTorp 1 week ago
@OgleTorp In the TCO category, True Cost to Own, it'll be the Shelby Mustang way out in front of the class.
1vdn992 1 week ago 2
@1vdn992 That will be no conciltation to the gt500 owner who just got his ass handed to him. You buy this bull crap about how 285s will suddenly work on a high hp car that is overweight. You and I have had countless arguments about gt500s and Boss mustang being able to outperform GMs best. You have been wrong every single time.
OgleTorp 1 week ago
@OgleTorp You've seen one Vette you've seen'em all. Owners of FGTs report, at car shows a crowd gathers round the exotic FGT, you know, the one with the engine in the middle, while at the Vette display you can hear the crickets chirping. Same is true on the streets, nobody looks at a Vette much less take a second look. While Auto week reports, during our test drive people were cranking their necks as if a Ferrari just drove by. Apparently the Boss is more stimulating to onlookers.
1vdn992 1 week ago
@1vdn992 Ya the owners report.. We've seen the bullshit you come up with and report so if they are just as dumb as you who cares
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
@1vdn992 Most people I know look at the Boss then comment about the corny painted wheels and decal package. Maybe you will be really impressed when they bring back the hood sized cobra graphics from the Mustang Cobra 2 of 1978.
OgleTorp 1 week ago
@OgleTorp I know it doesn't come close to the 150 hp C3 with the Screamin Turkey on the hood.
Guess what I saw today, a highly modified Black Base Vette, the guy bought a ZO6 badge and pasted it to his fender. It looked and sounded unimpressive though.
See and hear what Angus Mackenzie of Motor Trend thinks of a GS Vette,
watch?v=24MFkUnpY6s&lc=_u5q341NDQXh_3ypz5dyegoEN73l6SivWbLvh3-llG4&feature=inbox
Suspension, Seats, Rigidity, Cabin Tech and much much more, All Suck.
1vdn992 1 week ago
@FirstOnRaceDay004 Thats a good story I just hope you kidding the Zr1 will run circles around any gt 500 on the track. The gt 500 is going to be inpressive for the price but dont put it in the Zr1 level
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
That exactly what this tool does finds the best numbers for Ford and uses it as a bible and trolls for the slowest times for gm and acknowledges only those times don't waste your breath on this jackass
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
ZL1 = 7.41 at the Nurburgring. '13 GT = ?. Come on Ford. Post the lap time so we can see which is the best track car.
G8GTJav 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate - Yes, the GT500 is nose-heavy. From the way Hameedi talks, it sounds like the real reason SVT went with a narrower tire was to compensate for unresponsive steering characteristics.
G8GTJav 1 week ago
@StangpedePlus1 - Not quite. ZL1 was quicker through all corners but one. Peak lateral g's don't mean anything when you have to stay off curbs to avoid the live-axle skipping off into oblivion. Also, Boss 302 has underated hp (check it out) and is significantly lighter than ZL1. IMO, it was actually a decent match up.
G8GTJav 1 week ago
True statement about tire sizing front to rear to minimize understeer/plowing. However, Ford should have gone bigger front and rear. He should have justified by saying they were trying to minimize unsprung weight for the track. Would have sounded less like B.S.
G8GTJav 1 week ago
Corvette Z06, widely regarded as having some of the quickest steering response of any car on the market today(a bit too quick for some reviewers): 275 fronts, 325 rears.
Aside from the live rear axle, Ford has done pretty much everything right with the Mustang, especially the GT500. Even so, it's still one of the slowest 500+hp cars around in every respect. These guys may think 285s are adequate, but the numbers over the years tell a different story. Get with the program, SVT.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate You're forgetting that this vehicle has an advanced launch control system. If you'd like to see it in action, refer to the 2012 or 2013 Cobra Jet drag car that Ford offers. The '13 GT500 uses the same launch control as the Cobra Jet. It will perform excellent with the selected 285 Goodyear F1 Eagle Supercar G:2 tires that come on the GT500. Jamal Hameedi and the SVT crew have been with and now ahead of the "program". Maybe GM and Chrysler should follow suit.
LXnastynotch93 1 week ago
@LXnastynotch93 No matter how advanced their launch control is, I doubt it's any better than what, say, Porsche offers. And guess what? Even with AWD, the 911 Turbo still uses 305s in the rear.
And the Cobra Jet? Horrible example. You sure it's the launch control and not, say, the fact that it has less than 500hp and is running on drag slicks straight from the factory? And speaking of those slicks, just how wide are they, hm? Most certainly more than 285mm.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate The Cobra Jet comes with an NHRA limited 445 horsepower. However, they are a flash tune and a pulley swap away from 750+ horsepower (the 4.0L Whipple model). 285mm are also wider than what the Cobra Jet comes on, which is a 9" wide tire.
The point being, this system is more than capable of launching the GT500, even with it's 650 horsepower and wider 285mm tires (11.2"). The Goodyear tires chosen also have a compound that when heated, is near as good as a cheater slick.
LXnastynotch93 1 week ago
@LXnastynotch93 Hm, the slicks on the Jet look a lot bigger than that. Though I suppose the contrast with the fronts does create something of an optical illusion. But still, the car is wearing slicks, which means better traction by default. Near as good still isn't as good, and that WILL be a factor.
And it still doesn't change the fact that this guy's excuse is BS. Most of the best handling cars on the road use wider tires, and they don't need huge fronts to counter understeer.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate This "guy" is not bs'ing. That's Jamal Hameedi, chief engineer of SVT. That man is responsible for the recent years of awesome SVT products like the GT500 since 2007, the Raptor, the development of the ST Focus to a degree, etc. He knows his stuff. When he and SVT make a decision about a car, it's a well thought out prudent decision. Those tires, especially with that compound, and with the Bilstein dampers, will keep the GT500 well planted.
LXnastynotch93 1 week ago 6
@LXnastynotch93 I say he's BS-ing because he's sitting there saying things that don't make much sense. Saying they'd need possibly a 295 front tire to counterbalance a 315 rear? And then justifying that by bringing up other well-sorted cars? MOST cars like that DON'T need massive fronts to compensate for big rears. Why doesn't he just say what the real problem is? The Mustang is still too nose-heavy, resulting in more inherent understeer than .
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate Yes, that's exactly why the GT500 needs larger front tires. The tire size, front and rear, is calculated to distribute the front and rear weight bias of the car. That means that as you increase the size of the rear tire, you must continually increase the size of the front tire. For nose heavy cars like the GT500, you would need a 295 front to counterbalance a 315 rear. It's more about a ratio of weight distribution to contact patch size, rather than pure tire size alone.
LXnastynotch93 1 week ago
@LXnastynotch93 I know, and the fact that he's NOT saying that prompts me to say he's BS-ing. He's sitting there talking about how the best handling cars in the world don't need big rear tires, when that's a complete apples/oranges excuse. Most of those cars aren't nearly as nose-heavy as the Mustang. In fact, most are mid or rear-engined, and have the majority of their weight over the rear wheels. But even so, they're still running tires larger than 285s.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@LXnastynotch93 Instead of excuses, he could just say "The Mustang is still a bit too nose-heavy, causing it to understeer. But we feel we've found a great solution to the problem without redesigning the entire chassis and whatnot."
THAT'S more like it. I don't want to hear excuses like "We don't need bigger rear tires because other manufacturers aren't using them". Not only is it untrue, since others ARE using bigger tires, it makes it sound like they're just being stubborn.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate The fact is that with the launch system that the '13 comes with, larger diameter tires really are not needed. There are 7 ways to Sunday that you can engineer an automobile. In this case, Ford used their technological advancements to make the GT500 handle well and hook with 285mm rear tires. The S197 Mustang is by nature a front heavy car, and getting it to run with a Ford GT around a road is a huge merit to the SVT team.
LXnastynotch93 1 week ago
@LXnastynotch93 Yes, those are the facts, but that's NOT what he said. The excuse he gave for not using bigger tires is the supposed "fact" that other well-handling cars don't need them. That's not true, and it's an apples/oranges comparison because virtually none of the cars in that group are nearly as nose-heavy as the Mustang. The Nissan GT-R comes close, and even it was criticized for understeer in the early days.
That's my gripe with his so-called "explanation".
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate On eBay, 2012 4 seat Boss, 16 miles on the clock, Orange w/white stripping, comes with Recaros, Torsen, Car Cover, C/Mats. Does 60 in 4.0s and a 12.3s 1/4 B/stock. Buy it Now Dealer $43,575 and less than 200 miles away.
2012 Vette GS, as tested over $72,000 Motor Trend
2012 Vette GS, 60 in 4.4s and a 12.4s 1/4 mile, Edmunds
30,000 extra for a minimal performance gain & much bigger tires, I couldn't be happier with a Boss Mustang.
1vdn992 1 week ago
@1vdn992 1: Bone stock 'Vette GS has run a Motor Trend verified 3.9sec 0-60 and a 12.2 1/4 mile. Price as tested then, $57,310.
2: 2012 Boss 302, 60 in 4.4s and a 12.4s 1/4 mile, MotorWeek. See? I can look around and post the worst numbers I can find for the sake of furthering my own argument, too.
3: I bought a Boss 302, so all your Ford propaganda doesn't mean anything to me. I already know what the 302 is capable of, just like I know what a 'Vette is capable of.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate This is a massive amount of power, so much so that no amount of rubber can appropriately cope. As such, its 0-60 time is only 0.1 second less than the Z06 even if it actually feels much quicker. Its fuel economy is 14/20/16.
2012 Garbage Motors Corvette
Edmunds
1vdn992 1 week ago
@1vdn992 0.1 second quicker? Once again, ZR1 has run a Motor Trend verified 3.3s 0-60 and an 11.2s 1/4 mile.
Should I start talking shit about the Super Snake? Still running low 4s to 60 and low 12s in the 1/4 mile even with 700+hp? No, I won't stoop to your level. You can be a little fanboy and bash whatever you want. I'll stick with being unbiased, thank you.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate Your wasting your time with this troll and clown fan boy this is the same guy that says it costs 4000 a year for insurance on a vette lol
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
@gmrtg1414 Oh, I know all about this guy. I've gotten into it with him several times before. Doesn't care about the facts unless they support his argument, and is quick to call anyone who doesn't recognise the sheer awesomeness that is the Mustang a fanboy.
Hell, I bought a Boss 302 because it was so highly praised, and I told him that. Yet here he is, still rambling on about Corvettes.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate 2012 Garbage Motors Corvette
Edmunds
The Z06 is powered by a 7.0-liter V8 that produces 505 hp and 470 lb-ft of torque. We found that it hits 60 mph in 3.9 seconds. Fuel economy is again pretty good at 15/24/18. The ZR1 gets a supercharged version of the 6.2-liter V8 that cranks out 638 hp and 604 lb-ft.
Not to mention Vettes have poor resale value, AKA, Vettes are a dime a dozen.
1vdn992 1 week ago
@1vdn992 The Z06 has run a Motor Trend verified 3.5s 0-60 and a, 11.5s 1/4 mile. Still finding the worst numbers you can, eh?
Also, 'Vettes have been consistently ranked as having some of the best resale value of any sports car on the market. After 5 years, a given 'Vette and a 'Stang will both hold about 50% of their value. And are you really going to talk about cars being a "dime a dozen" when you're talking about Mustangs? You want to be the pot, or the kettle?
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate Yeah sure Mr. Ranger, Motor Trend, Best Drivers Car Comparison, Corvette ZO7 as tested $105,000 and at 3300 # the 2 seat Vette rips to 60 in 3.8s powered by the 7.0L LS Loser Series and 345 Cheater Tired stickys in the rear. That's about as impressive as your knowledge of cars.
1vdn992 1 week ago
@1vdn992 My knowledge of cars FAR outclasses yours.
It doesn't matter what the Z07 package ran in that test; it's OFFICIAL record is 3.5 and 11.5. You can dispute that all you like, it just exposes you for the whiny little tool that you are. "Cheater slicks, cheater slicks, no fair!" oh, shut the hell up you little monkey! The Boss 302 LS is wearing PZero Corsas; tires with a tread wear rating even lower than the Sport Cups! I don't see you bitching about those.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@WelcomeToCarnate Well ass, then what's your source?
btw, I saw a highly modified Black base Vette today, the guy put a fender badge on it that said ZO6. It didn't sound special, it didn't look special but I guess that's the way you Chevy guys like it. Current reviews say the GSs Cabin Tech is Crude, the Seats are still Garbage, it rides like a truck, and the Car flexes over every little bump, indicative of poor structural integrity, and the tranny shifts like a Semi.
1vdn992 1 week ago
@1vdn992 Source on what? Performance? Motor Trend, ditchweed. Resale values? Automobile Magazine, AOL Autos, Kelley Blue Book, Consumer Reports and Yahoo's automotive articles. And I believe Edmunds had an article where the base 'Vette was just barely edged out by the GT500 in terms of retained value by some 1%(47 to 48).
Yeah, because all Mustangs look and sound so very special. In fact, last month I saw a V6 'Stang dressed up to look like a something out of a Need For Speed game.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@1vdn992 Still rambling on about Corvettes, on a Mustang video, hm? Let me remind you that I've never defended the 'Vette's shit interior. So you spouting off about it doesn't mean anything to me. And guess what? My Z06 has a full Caravaggio interior, with Daytona racing seats, alcantara, leather and/or carbon fiber on every surface. It also has an aftermarket infotainment system installed. But you just keep yacking; no one really listens to your bullshit anyway.
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
@1vdn992 And let's not forget you're talking up cars you don't even own! How pathetic is that? I OWN a Boss 302, 'kay? So I'm FAR more qualified to talk about it than you are. A also own a Z06, meaning I'm FAR more qualified to talk about 'Vettes as well.
So why don't you go back under your little bridge and let the grown-ups talk, hm?
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
Comment removed
WelcomeToCarnate 1 week ago
As for the tires, 650hp and 285s don't mix. Wouldn't be surprised if the Zl1 is quicker to 60 and close in the quarter because the stang won't hook. The tire size is a mistake.
304teddy 1 week ago
To those saying the boss handles better the 2011 gt500 ran 1:25 vs the Laguna seca boss at 1:26 on streets of willow same day same driver. That's on a very short and technical course. I love the boss but the 2013 gt500 is going to destroy it even on a roadcourse.
304teddy 1 week ago
This guy isn't a very good speaker, it's like he's trying to remember words from a script. Regardless, Ford/SVT did an amazing job - can't wait for the reviews!
DrumProdigy83 1 week ago
The GT 500 is 300 lbs lighter than the Zl1- not 200. 4120-3820= 300. More bad news for the general.
reefblue331 1 week ago
Gotta love it
gcornel2 1 week ago
Fuck yeah.
Lateralusum 2 weeks ago
It's unfortunate that all this hype was put into the ZL1 just for it to be crapped on right as its release. It was made to compete with the Gt500 and the GT500 is 200 pounds lighter and makes 70 more hp lol.
StangpedePlus1 2 weeks ago
Do the math. GT500 is 200 pounds lighter than the ZL1 and makes 70 more hp. If the ZL1 could barely hold it's own against the Boss, it certainly won't against the GT500.
And BTW, the ZL1 didn't out handle the Boss. Tests showed the Boss pulled a higher lateral acceleration. The Camaro won because it had 136 more hp.
StangpedePlus1 2 weeks ago
Just to clarify, the the ZL1 did not out handle the Boss on the track. The specs said the Boss pulled a higher lateral acceleration than the Camaro did, which means it handles better in turns. In other words, the Camaro won on the track because of power output, and not handling. If you look at the track, there was a very long straight away for the Camaro to utilize its 136 more hp than the Boss. So yeah, the Gt500 is going to embarrass the ZL1 on the track considering the ZL1 barely held its ow
StangpedePlus1 2 weeks ago
Amazing...it takes 5+ years to "dial out under-steer," makes me really happy I bought a 2010 Camaro SS. I've been spending 2+ years "dialing in power-steering" with my right foot.
TheBulldawg4life 2 weeks ago
And I never said GM sucks at handling, MR is a great technology and the V series and Corvette and the new ZL1 handle great for what they are, but in the case of pony cars the ZL1's weight is holding it back.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
The ZL1 weight distribution is 51/49, as for power the 5.4 mod motor is good for 1000hp with a stock block. Now that its a 5.8 with a stock forged rotating assembly... I'm dreaming, but if Ford decides to make a new GT supercar the Bugatti Veyron might have a problem.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
And a lot of people mistake grip for handling. They are not the same thing, which is what Jamal Hameedi is trying to explain in this video. If you put to much tire in the back, the front breaks first and the car understeers. Put too much grip in the front and it oversteers. In order to make a car feel balanced, you want both tires to break traction at about the same time, save for power oversteer.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 this is vid is just an excuse as to why ford can not put larger tires on the current unibody mustang platform... basically, you would have to do serious redesigning to the whole car.. which ford is not interested in b/c of the cost and with the new mustang coming out in a few years. The camaro/ZL1 was designed with this in mind. Im sure the next stang will be also
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
continued....This has nothing to do with brand preference either... The ZL1 simply will have the better suited chassis to handle the power and that power will negate the weight advantage as well.
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
Only track where Corvette was tested by same source as Boss 302 and GT500 was VIR by C&D...
Corvette C6 GS 2:58.8
Corvette C6 Z51 3:01.2
Boss 302 LS: 3:02.8
GT500 3:04.0
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
Also, the 2013 GT500 was developed on the Nurburgring as well, GM just made a lot more noise about it than Ford did. You can find a lot of pics and spy shots of it online. The Corvette is a 50-130k 2 seat sports car, the Zr1 is not even comparable to the Mustang. The Mustang was introduced in 1964, years after the Corvette came out but Chevy found it neccessary to make the Camaro to compete with it. Compare apples to apples. Corvette = sports car, Mustang/Camaro = pony cars with back seats.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The only car you mentioned with more HP was the C63 AMG which weighed more than the Boss and only had 40 more HP. A Lotus Evora and Cayman do not have more HP but still barely lost.
However you are the first Mustang guy to akowledege the fact that the Mustang is not a sports car bravo. Tell that guys like 1vdn992
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 Those cars are mid engined and weigh a few hundred pounds less, not to mention the Porsche starts at $70,000 with PDK. The Boss 302/ Boss 302 LS might be sports cars, but not in the sense a Vette is. The Mustang is a good handling car by any measue, but when you put it up against a car built with less comprimises for practicality at a higher price point, you sort of expect one to be faster than the other.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The Porsche and Lotus barely lost fractions of a second to the Boss time at VIR was b/c they were underpowered in the final straight... Now as for the Vette there is no arguement there, the Mustang does not compete with the Corvette. Everywhere they went head to head even the base C6 Z51 beat the Boss and GT500.
I won't fault the Mustang or any pony car for losing to a Corvette though, that's like saying you you're a terrible boxer b/c you lost to Mike Tyson.
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 While I dont disagree the Boss's power helps its lap times, if it had poor handling it wouldnt be able to beat the Cayam R around a track, long straight or no, because VIR has some very technical corners where weight tracition and stability are important. The Boss 302 and Corvette are no doubt the bast bang-for-buck cars in the world right now, but do not compete with each other. The Mustang competes with Camaro, and is faster in every measure.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is only faster than the Camaro b/c GM rushed the release and decided to use a sedan chassis. The ZL1 b/c of the better CTS-V chassis and suspension components will be faster than the Boss 302 and new GT500 around the track. The current Mustang's biggest victory was the 5.0 over the SS. The ZL1 will domonstrate the importance chassis and suspension tech plays in performance.
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 GM sushing the Camaro out the door (which I dont believe- its a tried and true rwd chassis that can take a lot of power) doesnt give me a whole lot of confidence in it. the ZL1 uses the same chassis the other Camaros do so I dont know what your talking about. The suspension will have MR, but the new GT500 has new suspension tricks as well as launch control. As for performance, all we know the the GT500 has 70 more hp and weighs hundreds of pounds less.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The new GT500 like the current 750+HP Supersnakes will spin most of their power away I don't expect the 70HP bump to be much of a factor esp in the corners. The chassis design of all current Mustangs limit the effectiveness of their power. The ZL1's CTS-V MR, limited slip diff and coilovers will be the difference. This isnt 1969 and adding power alone doesnt guarantee victory
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 As was mentioned in the video above, the new car is geared to put less torque to the wheels for an easier launch. It also has a torsen diff like the Boss. The chassis of the Camaro limits it too, more though because of weight. Im not saying the ZL1 is a bad car, but it is DOA. Ford bitchslapped Chevy before the damn thing even went on sale. And the Camaro is going to remain the Shelby's bitch until the Corvette ZR1 gets 700hp and raises the hp limit on the Camaro.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago 13
@EatmyDust1311 won't be long... the 500hp LS 5.5 is already in testing by pratt & miller. "bitchslapped"? I wouldn't quite say that. the ZL-1 already laid waste to the Boss. Doesn't look like its chassis limited it there, btw, they're both unibodys. We'll wait and see what the GT500 does to the ZL-1. Yeah, the ZL-1 weighs more but is way more evenly distributed than the GT500 or Boss. ZL-1 52/48 GT500 58/42, which is very important. How the hell did an engineer overlook this?
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 Well the 2011 GT500 weight distribution is 56/44 for the coupe, so your wrong about that. Second, the ZL1 didn't "lay waste" to anything it doesnt compete with, and the handling of the Boss is better than anything GM makes, save maybe the Zo6. Third, I cant think of a body-on-frame car that is still being built, so saying they are unibody isn't news to anybody.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 Wrong bud... corvette uses a fully integrated tubular frame (no need for stabilizer bars)... as MANY sports cars do (there some new for you). handling on the Boss (some 500lbs lighter) is better... debatable. Thats not what Randy Probst said. Base GS/Z51 vette handles better than ANY mustang to date.. and its not even close. Don't try to pull a select track either. C&D got 2.58 on VIR with the GS, what did C&D get with the Boss? "save maybe the Z06", you really want to go there?
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 the Corvette is faster, and has MR and carbon brakes, is a better track car. Randy Probst knocked the Vette (unfairly) for using Cup tires, but not the Porsche on Cup tires (wtf?) As for stabilizer bars, the Corvette uses a transverse leaf spring that acts like a stabilizer bar. Im not biased but you can't compare the 'Vette to the 'Stang. Compared to every other car GM makes, the Boss is a better handler.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 yes, the vette use transverse leafs... but not for the same sense of stabilization as unibody cars do. they use them for body "flex". yes the Boss is a great car... more so than the GT500 IMO. the platform just seems to "work" better than anything ford made. although the ZL1 is a great handling car, agree that it is overweight by at least 300lbs but the IRS, MSR, wider stance, lower center, longer wheelbase (vs mustang) do make for a hell cornering machine for its weight
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 "the handling of the Boss is better than anything GM makes, save maybe the Z06". Really? you seem to be really biased. The whole corvette lineup handles better than the Boss and if you want to argue it i'm ready. Its not even really in the same class. Yeah, GM sucks at handling, guess thats why Ferrari, BMW, Acura etc etc purchased licensing rights from Delphi (founded by GM) for the MSR technology.
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 It's no disgrace for a 3600 lb 4 seater with a 5.0L to lose to a 3300 lb 2 seater with a 6.2L. It's no disgrace losing to a car that costs a lot more money. The Boss Mustang has great HP potential for not much money, a new Exhaust/ TB/CAI/Tune, has shown a 60 whp gain, add the Vettes cheater tires at the track and you have my style. What's amazing is both Boss Mustangs are faster to 60 and the 1/4 bone stock than an 08 Z51 Vette, FASTESTLAPS
Z51 is now the GS
1vdn992 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 2012 Chevrolet Corvette
Cons
Not as agile or refined as some of its competitors; old-fashioned interior.
The current-generation (C6) Corvette debuted in 2005, and although we wouldn't say it's past its prime, it's definitely feeling its age. The cabin lacks the sophistication, quality and craftsmanship of other sporting cars in its price range, while its many electronics controls still use the previous generation of GM switchgear.
Edmunds
aka Garbage Interior
1vdn992 2 weeks ago
@1vdn992 Mustang interior is such amazing quality right down to all the plastic chrome rings around the door speakers. If you your looking for top notch interior mustangs and corvettes aint it. Buy a BMW or Benz.
OgleTorp 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 the GM patented MR suspension is light years ahead of what ford is offering in the new GT500 and the Boss. The GT500 should certainly be better in a straight line... should be, but cornering should be interesting b/t the two, even though the ZL1 weighs 300lbs more. We will find out in a few months
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
Part 4 Final Part.....u vanished in 2002 & came back in '10 dat 8yrs 2get ur shit 2gether & u still choose 2come back with a heavy car, but thats Fords fault right? Now ur facin a more powerful lighter car & we still hv the smallest engine!!!! WTF?! We havent even touch 6.0L in a Stang yet smh. See u fuckers hv a glass jaw, & r not use to takin a punch. Stop cryin & shit & man the fuck up. CLASS DISMISSED!
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
@BossShinoda98 "smallest engine", the pushrod 16v LS2, LS3, LS7, LS9 are all either smaller or the same size as the 4cam 32v TIVCT 5.0. The LS7 7.0 weighs the same as the 5.0 and is dimensionally smaller. LS9 weighs roughly 540lbs and the supercharged 5.8 Trinity engine is at 630lbs. "haven't touched 6.0" LOL, go learn something about a damn engine. Read this: fastestlaps(DOTCOM)/articles/horsepower_per_liter_it_is_serious_business Ford and GM both make great engines... YOU FAIL
BEBNC1 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 Ok let me explain something to u b4 u tell me I need to learn something about a damn engine....yes the push rod motors Chevy uses are smaller dimensionally, i got that, however what I was more so referring to is displacement the are larger in displacement. Ford does more with less i.e. 444 out of 5.0 vs 426 out of 6.2 but wait cause I know ur gonna flex about the lack of tq, but the 5.8 (smaller again displacement wise) 650hp/600tq vs Zl1 6.2 580hp/556tq....part 1....
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 Part 2, watch out if Ford makes a 6L motor cuz liter for liter the DOHC (hp wise) is more powerful than the pushrod, & make no mistake about it, chevy loves the pushrod its a simple, effective powerplant. They WILL eventually fold and go DOHC look at da V6 Camaro its DOHC, funnny I remember just yesteryear chevy fans talkin bout how Chevy would never use a blower, "no replacement for displacement" blah blah blah, oh the times hv changed, so no my friend I didnt fail, no not at all.
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
@BEBNC1 All shit talking aside you are right and I totally agree both Company's make awesome power plants. To be frank there are pros and cons to each....to name a few Push Rod is a proven platform, easier & cheaper to work on, typically produces more tq, and generally dimensionally smaller dont need be spun to the moon to make power. DOHC had to grow/prove itself (sucked for ford in 96-10 lol) more expensive to work on, later ones obvioulsy started making more power with less displacement.
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
@BossShinoda98 2013 GT500 in Hot Rod Magazine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The March issue has a pretty good article on the '13 GT500, focusing on the engine most of all.
Of particular note, with respect to a shot of the dyno computer screen: "The 650 HP rating is at the maximum continuous RPM of 6250, but the redline is 7000, at which point we saw 670+ HP on the screen. But Ford probably doesn't want you to know that."
1vdn992 2 weeks ago
Part 3......As far as sales go gimmie a fucking break da last time Camaro out sold a stang was 85 so in '10 da Camaro outsold the stang thats 25yrs da the (weaker less powerful underdog) stang has outsold both da TransAm & da Camaro so when u hv dat kind of time in, then talk 2me about sales, u got 22yrs left, str8. Now lets talk bout weight 4 a min cuz Im sick of that shit 2, u GM guys keep bitchin about weight, smh.......Part 3 Continued.....
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
Part 2 continued...All of a sudden power also seems not 2matter when ur the weaker of the 2. Oh & since when da fuck did GM give a fuck about sells? Beside don't u fucks still owe the gov. a few billion dollars so its not like your enjoying ur profits as of April 2010 you owed Canada (fucking Canada?) 8Bil & da US 40Bil........Part 2 Continued.....
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
CLASS IN SESSION BITCHES! 1st it was "The stang is slow & weak," then it was "oh the stang can't make power with out a blower," now it's oh the stang is only runnin shit cuz its lighter." Now that we hv both a lighter faster & more powerful stang it's, "the camaro has a more advanced suspension & is outselling the stang, power & straight line performance (which by the way straight line is exactly what a muscle car is about) isnt everything." .........Continued
BossShinoda98 2 weeks ago
LMAO at 00:19, mr jamals face, lol
suppaman12 3 weeks ago
Come on guys, dont feed the GM trolls. They have nothing better to do than compare this car to a Vette, which automatically qualifies them as an idiot.
FoodMoTron3k 3 weeks ago 12
@FoodMoTron3k Hell yea cause even the gm guys know the zl1 doesnt stand a chance against this monster. the zl1 is loving life right now wait till motor trend puts it up against this
ericlathamable 2 weeks ago
@ericlathamable Just curious if you think the GT500 is going to outhandle the Boss? I dont think it will. Keep in mind that the ZL1 spanked the Boss by 4 seconds a lap in the latest MT.
OgleTorp 2 weeks ago
@OgleTorp ehh thats a hard one. honestly i dont think it will "outhandle" the boss but i do believe it will be faster around a track. why? the 650 hp will obviously tear up the straits and as far as the corners i think the svt has done some serious work to the 2013 gt500 everywhere else besides the engine. i think the 2013 gt500 especially with the performance pack and track pack is gonna be a huge step over the 2012
ericlathamable 2 weeks ago
@ericlathamable I guess time will tell. Ford seriously needs to get this car in balance and get some rubber under it to contend with the ZL1 in my opinion.
OgleTorp 2 weeks ago
@OgleTorp yea i could be wrong but hey i hoping they have finally learned they cant just throw in more power, what they need to do is get the damn thing to mt so we can see what it can doo
ericlathamable 2 weeks ago
@ericlathamable I think they will burning lots of rubber!
OgleTorp 2 weeks ago
@OgleTorp lol could be
ericlathamable 2 weeks ago
it was 2.45 seconds i believe. it would have been embarrassing for a 6.2L SC car with a "sophisticated suspension" not to beat a 5.0L NA car with a solid rear axle around the track.
tailhook44 2 weeks ago
@tailhook44 Kinda like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
OgleTorp 2 weeks ago
They should have used bigger tires. The Camaro ZL1 was meant to kill the heavier GT500. Neither of these cars were meant to handle that good. I believe the ZL1 was made to handle so it could take out not only the GT500 but the Boss. Let's face it, most GT500 owners are not going to use it at a race track where you have to worry about understeer. The GT500 is a drag strip beast that has long needed some fat rubber at the back.
elr456 4 weeks ago
@elr456 The NA 5.0L Boss Mustang has been independently verifed as doing 60 in 3.93 & 3.97s bone stock and costs $44,000 with Recaros and the Torsen. Chevy says the 6.2L SC ZL1 will do 60 in 4.0s 6M, & 3.9s 6A and gets 12 mpg city driving economically, not to mention getting slapped with the Gas Guzzler tax, and the Boss 17.
Boss Mustang test drive,
watch?v=8TuepBVyZPg
Looks like Chevy needs a supercharger just to keep up with Ford.
1vdn992 4 weeks ago
The GT500 and ZL1, judging by the info that has been given out by the companies,it looks like the GT500 will be the better car.
GhostFaceKilllah 1 month ago
correct me if im wrong, but this engineer is comparing 500hp 2900-3500lbs german cars to a 3900lb 650hp pony car...yes u have to balance the front tires with the rear and bigger fronts do induce understeer w/o proper suspension setup, but why go with the smallest set? 315s and 245s/265s would have been waay better...and if understeer is such an issue, ditch the solid axle...but as it sits, launch control or not, this GT500 is gonna have the same old problem...NO TRACTION...
mtooshort20 1 month ago
i love the mustang, but he says "um" and "uh" way too much, dont get me wrong, he knows more about it than i do, i just thought it was funny how he talked.
yardsausage 1 month ago
I love and own a mustang, but anyone would know that the bigger tires will allow more power in the corners too . The corvette handles great and it has huge rear tires, I think 335's. The real reason they did this was warranty. If a 650hp car got a really hard bite, it would be ultra hard on the car's drive train. Thats why a progressive traction control system is better for the car, but bigger tires should be in every gt500 owner's future. This guy doesnt seem to know what he is talking about.
NoUtubeDegree 1 month ago
@NoUtubeDegree he was simply stating that the larger rear tire requires a larger front tire which degrades steering feel and precision. Not sure what you don't understand about that. Obviously a larger tire will mean more cornering force and grip, but Ford had to make a decision and they chose to comprimise increased cornering for improved the steering feel. There's always a give and take when designing a performance car. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
wolfpacguy 1 month ago
@wolfpacguy You can if you dont put 56% of the cars weight on the front tires.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@wolfpacguy I understand what he was stating and I understand this was the only excuse he could give, but the car undoubtedly needs bigger tires. Bigger tires really wont effect steering feel and if they did then Ford should be able to correct that in the new adjustable shocks and steering setup of the car. I understand Fords decision but not for the same reasons as he said. Its still a kick ass car and will handle like a dream, but hopefully it will launch hard too.
NoUtubeDegree 1 month ago
@NoUtubeDegree He said big tires are great for the Drag Strip, or the Closed Course, but this car is engineered to be an all around car and that said it'll kill its copycat competition the ZL1, which gets an epa rated 12 city and gets slapped with a gas guzzler tax, and this 650 hp beast doesn't. Chevy is a bankrupt car company that puts cheater slicks on their Vettes that have Cobalt interiors, $105,000 for a ZO7 that does 60 in 3.8s & 11.8s 1/4, thank god Ford didn't copy them.
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Yes thank god Ford didn't copy Chevy, because then Chevy would actually have competition. Z06 will still put a whooping on this sillysnake, drag and track. I love the "all around car" excuse for being sub-par.
pali311 1 month ago
@pali311 Well said. The only true performance car Ford ever made was the GT that actually performed great in every category. When the ZL1 and GT500 are compared they will both shine at certain things but a ZO6 will whip them both just like it always has.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@pali311 Let me just compare the GT to the camaro and we will call it even. Again they are 2 different cars at 2 different price ranges. Although since the camaro is so slow the mustang gets compared to the vette.
NoUtubeDegree 1 month ago
@NoUtubeDegree Yeah, Camaros are so slow?! The mustang is Fords top performance car and Corvette is Chevrolets. Would love to see a test with GT500 and a ZR1. The ZR1 will prove once again its the Total Package and will dominate the GT500 in every segment just like the ZO6 has done forvever.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@OgleTorp Every Chevy guy falls back to that lame argument, well let's just compare it to a ZR1. Sure at $120,000.00 It had better outperform a $60,000.00 car. It's DOUBLE the cost! Lame sauce chevy boys...
BravoII 1 month ago
@BravoII Guess you forgot that the GT cost about 90k more than the Zo6 and it gave the Gt all it could handle. For less money the ZR1 still outperforms the GT. If you think its a lame argument how do feel about sportbikes costing between 10-15k that will eat ZR1s and GTs without breaking a sweat.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@OgleTorp Sure and always will be this vs that but we should keep (as much as possible) apples to apples. The Camaro Grocery Getter, vs the Mustang Grocery Getter. The Top Camaro vs The Top Stang. Until Ford comes back with another GT there is no current Ford competitor to the Corvette. Trying to compare a Mustang to a Corvette simply will never work.
BravoII 1 month ago
@BravoII Right and now matter how much you try to explain its camaro vs mustang and not corvette vs mustang. Chevy fan boys will only go for the camaro vs mustang if its beating it for that year. As soon as the mustang poses a threat they run to the vette. I remember when they use to bitch about how ford couldnt do shit with the mustang without a blower....the 5.0 Mustang GT and Boss 302 changed everything. & now everyone has a blower..now they wanna bitch about weight...lmaoo it will never end.
BossShinoda98 1 month ago
@BossShinoda98 As soon as the Chevy boys pull out the vette pull out the ace in the hole, the Ford GT.
rcman123 1 month ago
@BossShinoda98 Its performance car vs performance car. Mustang guys only use the excuse of not being in the class of corvettes, nobody else. One minute you guys duck a corvette and the next you are racing a cavalier with a fart can.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@OgleTorp Yeah, all you have to do is spend another 50 grand on an impractical 2 seater that's going to do nothing but lose you money and just maybe you can keep up with a 2013 GT500 to 60, but I doubt it.
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Thats ZR1 money my friend. Zr1 will dust the new GT500 in every single performance category known to man. GT500s have an amazing engine but are too heavy and way undertired. GT500 will have its hands full with the ZL1 which you claim is complete garbage.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@OgleTorp If I remember correctly the Boss Mustang does 60 in 3.93 & 3.97s to 60, independently verfied, and the late in the day ZL1 does 60 in 4.0s with a 6M.
Not to mention Ford's done something they haven't done since 1970 and that's to increase their market share 3 years in a row and analysts believe they're going to extend that streak to 4.
Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks ZO6s/ZO7s aren't worth the money as evidenced by their small sales figures.
1vdn992 1 month ago 2
@1vdn992 If I remember correctly you said the Boss would outperform the ZO6! Let me know when your episode of Intervention airs to get you off the crack your on.
OgleTorp 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Thats the problem you dont remember shit. The ZL1 just posted a 3.8 and a 12.1 in print from Motor Trend. You know in the same issue it smoked the boss L/S fords track ready car smart guy!!! Wow a 4200 pound car slapping the shit out of Fords 2 seat track car. I thought the camaro was to heavy to go around the track just proves you FORD TOOLS and TROLLS wrong.
gmrtg1414 3 weeks ago
@gmrtg1414 Soo the hot s*** Supercharged 6.2L ZL1 is barely quicker than a Normally Aspirated 5.0L Boss Mustang with a 6M, that sounds like par for the course. Here's a Boss Mustang with TracKey and the baffles removed which nobody has tested yet,
atch?v=EEX7TeSAQS4
and a Boss Mustang with a few bolt-ons on the dyno,
watch?v=LW1zRLjkOeY
1vdn992 3 weeks ago
@1vdn992 The ZL1 is not released yet dumbass and it will be more more than barely quicker it will have magnetic selective suspension and a CTS-V limited slip diff. It will be over 20 seconds faster than a Boss at the Ring if Ford grew a pair and ran there.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33: Dont worry, the new GT500 will run at the Nurburgring. And according to Car and Driver magazine, they have already tested the new GT500. And they are already saying that it puts the power down better than the previous GT500 because of its new enhanced rear spoiler. Also the new GT500 has adjustable dampers and suspension settings as well as launch control. This car will definitely at least put up a 7:35 nurburgring lap time.
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@V8Supercar1 7:35 is where you went all wrong on your lie... That will not happen that would imply that a GT500 is faster than the Ford GT on the most technical track it has ran on.
The 2013 GT500 will be very lucky to get barely under 8 mins and that's the best case scenario... A 650HP engine on a live axled 3900lb pony car will not put it into Ford GT and Ferrari 430 Scud territory.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33: The Ford GT was not competitively pushed on the Ring. They did a run in the Gt with other traffic on the track. Secondly. Why is it that the mustang GT 5.0 is quicker in a straight line and around a track vs. the camaro SS, even though the SS has slightly more HP?? IRS has not given the camaros any advantage over the mustangs this generation.
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@V8Supercar1 First off it's weight that helps the 5.0 beat the SS by no means is it the chassis and suspension. The Camaro uses a heavy sedan chassis b/c GM did not want to delay the Camaro release and waste money on a new chaasis. The current SS is more G8 than Camaro. The ZL1 using CTS-V tech will actually be able to use all of its power and put it to the ground, the 2013 GT500 is not going to feel that much more powerful esp through corners and in lower gears.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33: "First off it's weight that helps the 5.0 beat the SS by no means is it the chassis and suspension."
lol Okay with that said. The GT500 is also lighter than the ZL1 by around 250lbs. And you add the fact that it has 70+ more HP than the ZL1, adjustable damper settings, adjustable trac control settings + more down force than the old GT500 due to the spoiler. There is no way this car is not gonna beat the Camaro's Ring time.
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@V8Supercar1 You're on drugs if you think the ZL1 will weigh the same as a CTS-V sedan... GM estimated it would be around 3900lbs which is only 100lbs more than a GT500.
The ZL1 will have a far more advanced chassis and suspension setup cmon everyone knows that, it will have magnetic dmapers, double wishbone coilovers and the LSD which is all soured from the CTS-V which is a 4200lb luxury sedan than kicks the current GT500's ass on track and strip.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33: lol I guess I'm on drugs then. Because its listed in the latest edition of car and driver magazine that the Camaro ZL1 weighs 4,120 lbs and the GT500 weighs 3,850 lbs. lol Yeah I'm the one on drugs for thinking that a car with a superior power to weight ratio over the other is gonna be faster around a track. You see, your problem is. You are thinking like the new GT500 has the same suspension as the old one. to be continued....
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@V8Supercar1 Power/weight ratios are for straight line acceleration... Do you know anything about cars or physics? By your logic ultra light top fuel dragsters with the best power/weight ratios should be the fastest track cars on the planet. The ZL1 is not going to weight as much as a luxury sedan wishful thinking on your part.
And yes the 2013 other than the engine will be the exact same chassis as the current GT500 and the oregon trail wagon tech live axle will still be there.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33: I think you must be illiterate. Because I've already told you that Car and Driver has already tested both the ZL1 and the new GT500. They weighed both the ZL1 and the GT500. And if you think that the new GT500 will have the same suspension as the old one, you clearly have not done your homework on the new car. All you have to do is go to caranddriverDOTcom. They've got full 100% complete breakdowns of both cars. What do you think I've been making up this info?????
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@V8Supercar1 2013 GT500 in Hot Rod Magazine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The March issue has a pretty good article on the '13 GT500, focusing on the engine most of all.
Of particular note, with respect to a shot of the dyno computer screen: "The 650 HP rating is at the maximum continuous RPM of 6250, but the redline is 7000, at which point we saw 670+ HP on the screen. But Ford probably doesn't want you to know that."
________
1vdn992 2 weeks ago
@1vdn992: Thats no surprise. The DOHC engine is just proven. And they are just getting better and better with OHC engines overall.
V8Supercar1 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 Weight affects every aspect of performance- acceleration brking and cornering. The Nurburgring is not a technical track, just a long ass track with mostly wide sweeping turns. And if you want to bash the live axle, tell me why the Camaro still has a pushrod engine while the Mustang has 4 valve per cylinder, DOHC motor with ti-vct and 112 hp per liter and no guzzler tax while the ZL1 has 93 hp per liter and a guzzler tax?
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 No a balanced chassis with advanced suspension components and aerodynamic downforce is the formula for cornering. This is why Formula One cars are ultra light with huge spoilers and splitters to create downforce through corners. Weight is a pure liability in racing esp through corners.
PS There is no parallel between a live axle and an OHV engine... HP is HP regardless of how it is made...
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 The mustang is on a dedicated sports car platform while the camaro uses a sedan platform. It is a few hundred pounds lighter, and that makes a big difference. mustang 1, camaro 0.
PS lap times are lap times, no matter how they are achieved. The mustang is faster around most race tracks, therefore is a better handler even with a live axle. The Corvette isnt held back by its leaf springs, nor is the 911 handicapeed by its ass engined layout. they have just been refined.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is not a Sports Car end of story... Pony Car/Muscle Car would be the correct term. The Mustang's greatest victory was over the Camaro SS, I assure you the ZL1 with CTS-V tech will actually use all 580HP and will not lose to any production Mustang esp the new GT500 which will not be able to put all its power down. You read it here first.
The Corvette has a Transverse LS which is not used in a suspension application, it still has double wishbones.
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is not a Sports Car end of story... Pony Car/Muscle Car would be the correct term. The Mustang's greatest victory was over the Camaro SS, I assure you the ZL1 with CTS-V tech will actually use all 580HP and will not lose to any production Mustang esp the new GT500 which will not be able to put all its power down. You read it here first.
The Corvette has a Transverse LS which is not used in a suspension application, it still has double wishbones.
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 The Mustang is not a sports car don't make me laugh...
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 The Mustang GT is on par with the e92 M3. That makes ia a sports car. It has a much better handling balance than the Camaro, is much lighter and beats it with less horsepower. When Motortrend compared the GT to the M3 they said it understeered less and felt lighter. And its also faster in a straight line. In 2015, the Mustang gets a new platform as well.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 Don't start this shit... A pro on one mild amateur track managed to push a GT to an M3 competitive time. The difference is that Helen Keller could get an M3 around just as fast. This isolated incident does not justify a live axle.
The Camaro gets the 3300lb alpha platform in 2014, let's see if Ford can get a car with an advanced IRS to weigh close to that. And If the next gen Camaros will weigh 3300lbs imagine how light the C7 Vette will be.
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 When any live axled Mustang gets under 8 mins at the Nurburgring then maybe we can toy with the idea... Untill then no one cares if a pro can push a 5.0 to compete with an M3 at a very mellow track. Fact is it has no documented runs on benchmark tracks like the Ring that has turns that would actually put a live axle under stress.
When it competes on the big boy tracks let me know...
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 In Car&Drivers Lightning Lap 2012, the Bos 302 LS lapped VIR, one of the best racetracks in the world, in 3:02.8. For comparison, on the same day with the same driver (which eliminates the HUGE credibility issue Ring times have) a C63 AMG coupe did it in 3:06, a Lotus Evora S 3:05, Cayman R 3:03.9 ect... The Nurburgring is very flawed benchmark track. Conditions vary too much. And it is NOT a technical track!
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@EatmyDust1311 I remember when you were trying to compare it to the Corvette and it's funny that you mention VIR where it lost to all current Corvette models even the base Z51 and got anhilated by the Z06. So what do you do, you mention other cars with far less HP that barely lost b/c of the final straight. The Mustang is out of its league at the Ring and you know it.
Nurburgring not technical? You know crack cocaine is illegal right?
Greendude33 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33 No, some of those cars I mentioned have considerably more power than the Boss and all of them cost a lot. more. They are all examples of Europe's finest sports cars, and the Mustang still beats them around a strack with less power and a live axle. VIR is one of the most challenging tracks in the world, and the Rings only outstanding feature is that it's 13 miles long. The Ring is a fast course with a very long straight as well.
EatmyDust1311 2 weeks ago
@Greendude33: continued... The CTSV may have beaten the GT500, but the boss 302 mustang with100HP less than the CTSV has beaten the CTSV around the laguna, the Hockenheim Short, the Virginia International Raceway, and the Sachsenring. The new GT500 will have the same suspension setup as the boss, but with even more upgrades.
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@V8Supercar1 The Boss has only ran at joke tracks with mild turns Laguna Seca has the corkscrew and nothing else special. The Boss would not even be under 8 mins at the Ring with 147 technical turns and hundreds of elevation changes and sloping uneven road surfaces and turns.
PS the only Boss to beat the CTS-V was the stripped LS edition Boss, I could put Rosie O Donnel in the back seat of a CTS-V eating a cake and would have no problem keeping up with a Boss that is not poised.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33: "The Boss has only ran at joke tracks with mild turns Laguna Seca"
lol The Laguna Seca and the VIR are the top 2 rated tracks here in the U.S. Do you even watch any GT1 racing???
V8Supercar1 3 weeks ago
@OgleTorp umm.. you do know the GT500 weighs 3820lbs and the Zr1 weighs 4120lbs. now, last time i checked, 3820 is less than 4120. make sure you got the facts before you run your mouth. ok pumpkin?
nicp90 4 weeks ago
@nicp90 I think you mean Z L 1. ZR1 is a corvette.
OgleTorp 3 weeks ago
@nicp90 GM has not released any official curb weight numbers nice try... You're a wishful thinker if you think it will weigh the same as a CTS-V sedan which is already faster than the GT500 might I add.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@OgleTorp did you not just watch the video? tire size isnt everything. maybe that why the zr1 only goes in straight lines?
3NOSHITSHERLOCK3 3 weeks ago
@3NOSHITSHERLOCK3 Do you mustang morons even know what a ZR1 is?
OgleTorp 3 weeks ago
@OgleTorp This car has great suspension and puts all its power down,
watch?v=c-dymza3iTA&feature=related
1vdn992 3 weeks ago
@1vdn992 It will get dusted on the Nurburgring by the ZL1 mark my words... Live axles are shit for corners and only look good on amateur tracks with joke turns. The GT500 will be wrapped around a tree at the green hell.
All Mustangs will be even more of a joke when the Camaro gets the 3300lb Alpha chassis and C7 Corvette engine and transmission tech. Ford will never make a chassis that light with IRS.
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
@Greendude33 Boy that must be some gooood crack
1vdn992 3 weeks ago
@1vdn992 It's not my fault Ford is scared of real technical tracks like the