@judorican973 In Brazil they cost the same. And here most jujutsukas are judokas as well and vice versa. No hate, it's all grappling takedowns and ground work. Respect.
@pcjudosambo It's someone walking past the camera and all you can see is the shape of his hair. At first glance it does look like some sort of animal or something running past the camera doesn't it?
@pcjudosambo Watch again, it's just the top of someone's head. While you're at it how about resonding to my contention concerning differences between GJJ and Judo. Or, are you just a troll?
@MrMZaccone The Gracies learned Judo from a Kodokan Judoka (yes Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Member). He taught the true, traditional art of Judo before it became more of a Sport. Many eastern European and many if not all Japanese judo clubs retained that traditional atmosphere where all aspects of Judo are learned just like Mitsuyo Maeda taught to Gracies. So you have not answered the most important question: How is GJJ different from traditional Kodokan Judo in terms of technique?
@pcjudosambo Show me a defensive clinch used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a "punch block" bottom guard, side control or mount used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a defensive sag used in Kodokan Judo (it is in fact discouraged). Show me kicks and punches used as ranging weapons in Kodokan Judo and practiced outside kata. These are things taught to Gracie beginners. Don't just make claims, I want links to video or detailed instruction. If you can't find it (and you can't) there's your difference.
@jitsubr of course because everyone on the the street knows bjj how many bjj guys have been knocked no one evers makes a comment you know why they wont admit to that
The thing about this upload is I only counted 2 occasions where the defender (Helio) ended up on the ground. Those were in relation to headlock escapes, which proved to be pretty effective. As a Law Enforcement professional, I would rate these headlock escapes as very effective, IF your going to try one at all (your only seconds away from unconsciousness and possible death).
This is the best exhibition of Jiu-Jitsu AS A SELF DEFENCE ART. But that just my opinion.
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX The ground is not where you want to be, but it's not always up to you, what happens when a big guy tackles you?? Are you going to say "hey, I don't want to be on the ground, let's fight on our feet instead"? The truth is, on the street, you don't want a fight period, knowing how to fight on the feet or the ground is better than staying ignorant.
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX WHen have you ever heard ANYONE say you should PULL GUARD in a street fight? My instructor is a BB under Royler and he tells us THIS IS NOT FOR THE STREET, pulling guard is for competition or the mat. And your comments about not having stand up like judo is pure IGNORANCE and also BLINDNESS did you not see the video? I mean the video you're here commenting on. THe onewith all the stand up? GRacie self defense never EVER shows pulling guard, they show MAINLY stand up.
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX Are you retarded? Or are you just pretending? "this bbj stuff has no standup whatsoever, unlike judo.." YOUR WORDS< here we see takedowns, not just that, your quote above shows you see judo as a legit self defense art, yet EVERYTHING in this vid and in the Gracie self defense moves is JUDO BASED! In a tournament people activly grab your lapels and resist, and you can throw them, JUST LIKE A REAL FIGHT, it works, it worked for Royce in the 90s and still works today.
Because of my job I deal with alot of fights on the "street" the only thing I've ever done is jiujitsu ,but I train and compete alot so the fight hardly ever even makes it to the ground.
Sim, o judo veio do jiu jitsu e mais tarde os brasileiros aperfeiçoaram o chão, criando o Gracie Jiu Jitsu, depois chamado de Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Portanto, jiu jitsu e judo são artes irmãs.
E esse trecho da demonstração de defesa pessoal do Mestre Hélio é mesmo só de quedas e luta em pé.
you said "Portanto, jiu jitsu e judo são artes irmãs." which means they are "brother arts" I´m sorry but I have to correct you because that´s not the relaitionship betwen each other. Gjj comes from judo and judo in its turn come from jujutsu. therefore gjj is an offspring from judo. so the relationship is that of Father (judo) Son (Gjj) and you cannot be brother to your Father
Você está errado. Gracie Jiu Jitsu é arte filha da luta japonesa jujitsu e não do esporte judo. O objetivo do BJJ é finalizar o oponente e não aplicar uma bela queda ou segurar o oponente no chão por alguns segundos, o que não possui sentido algum em um combate real. Embora Conde Koma viesse de Jigoro Kano, o que ele ensinou e praticou no Brasil não foi judo, mas Jujitsu. O BJJ não nasceu de um esporte, mas sim de uma arte marcial e então se tornou a arte mais eficiente do mundo.
No Você está errado!!! HELIO GRACIE himself states in his last interview "So what i began to do by watching and observing This JUDO was create a jiujitsu I could practice" (Helio gracie tv special part 1, min 5:35) look for it is in portuguese. Now sime facts. 1.Judo was born from a martial: JUJUTSU. The japanese also had ground specialists: Kosen judo. 3. nowadays both Judo and Gjj are sports. 4. the difference between the two is only the emphasis Gjj is Judo specilized on groun technics
Judo é a parte esportiva do jujutsu, criada por Jigoro pra levá-la aos meios acadêmicos. Mitsuyo Mayeda não ensinava e nem praticava o judo no Brasil, mas sim o jujutsu, com ênfase na defesa pessoal, no combate entre diferentes artes marciais e na luta de solo. Embora ele fosse também um representante do judo, não foi isso que ensinou aos Gracie. E, embora o jiu jitsu brasileiro seja tbm um esporte, ele tem como base a luta real, por isso os maiores lutadores de MMA são do BJJ.
your are denying yourself to see the facts, maeda was a longlife judoka, his experience as jujutsuka was irrelevant or simply non-existent. The point is bjj comes from Judo, HELIO himself says that!!! thats in the documentary I wrote in my prevoius post!!!
As for mma, it is true bjj was very revolutionary, but today you have to be well rounded, it is not enough with bjj only. Strong takedowns and strikes are a must and finally Fedor emelianenko (the best one) has never trained bjj
And by the way: Street is not a mma cage or ring, people gets raped, assailed, shot, stabbed, kidnapped and so on in the streets. The least interesting thing for an assailant is to compare his skills with yours he is is not in some tournament. Would you "pull the guard" when some guy is threatening you with a knife and another snatching your belongings away from you? Would you do that when assailed in a favela? Idont think so. Each context defines what is logical an sane to do
Fedor did train Judo and, Sambo, which was greatly influenced by Judo. BJJ came from Judo, so the techniques that Fedor uses are familiar with many of the top BJJ instructors.
BJJ is modified just like Sport Judo (more technique allowed and different rules). Of course, both can be used for self-defense because they are so much alike.
Judo is left of grappling arts while BJJ is the right ... the middle is Sambo, it allows ALL of what BJJ & Judo offers (even chokes for freestyle Sambo or Combat Sambo), so train Sambo :-)
@pcjudosambo GJJ in its current form is certainly not Kodokan Judo of any era. The catalog of techniques is similar but the tactical and strategic application is drastically different. How much GJJ have you studied and with whom? Where I studied, ANYTHING was allowed in the right context so I don't know what you're talking about. BJJ is GJJ modified for sport while GJJ is derived from Judo and modified for application against more modern and westernized methodologies.
@MrMZaccone how is tactical and strategic application differs from of Kodokan Judo? Defense against knife? Defense against pistol? Remember, 2+3 is the same as 3+2 ... different variations yield same results. I never studied BJJ but I've been to several dozen competitions. I've also seen GJJ demos done by top level Gracie students... how is GJJ modified? Maybe teaching method, yes but the techniques definitely no. So I don't understand how GJJ is a modified version of Kodokan Judo.
@pcjudosambo Show me a defensive clinch used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a "punch block" bottom guard, side control or mount used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a defensive sag used in Kodokan Judo (it is in fact discouraged). Show me kicks and punches used as ranging weapons in Kodokan Judo and practiced outside kata. These are things taught to Gracie beginners. Don't just make claims, I want links to video or detailed instruction. If you can't find it (and you can't) there's your difference.
@MrMZaccone Judo became the standard attacking and defense art by the Japanese military and police (and others around the world as well) after a competition between Judo & Jujutsu (Judo won). First of all, for all students, kata is learned to apply in life (not for show) as taught by Kano. Second of all self-defense kata is learned by students of all ages, third of all here is what's learned by the police since day 1: Kodokan Goshin Jutsu & Renkoho Waza. Yeah, this is taught to GJJ beginners?
@pcjudosambo Completely non-responsive to my post. I have twice provided you with techniques taught to Gracie beginners that are no where in the Kodokan Judo. Get over it, they're two different things. GJJ is based on Kokokan Judo, certainly. It also contains elements of freestyle wrestling and striking NOT found in Kodokan Judo. In addition there are techniques and tactics unique to GJJ that I have already listed. What is it you don't understand about this?
@MrMZaccone man oh man, you're just stating this to make your point valid but even you know that it's not valid. It's ok though, if you can sleep better at night knowing you tried to make a valid point, good by me. It's just funny how all GJJ blue belts that I've met, my nephew fought with, visited web sites of their schools DO NOT TRAIN the things you mentioned (kicking, punching). I think you're confusing GJJ with MMA. But it's OK, you tried to make a valid point, good try though. Thumbs UP!
@pcjudosambo My point is valid. I've studied with Royce, Rorion, Relson, Ryron, Rener, and back in the day, Helio Gracie. I know what they teach. You on the other hand have admitted that you've never even studied BJJ so If the blue belts you've met aren't learning these things, I don't know where they're studying but they need to either find someplace better or ask better questions in class. Having said that, I'll admit not all instructors are created equal, even ones named Gracie but ...
@MrMZaccone ok, i saved the best for last my friend. Watch this video of Royce Gracie himself stating the difference between GJJ and BJJ. In the video, he states that the ONLY difference is the teaching method (NOT THE TECHNIQUES). He admits that GJJ and BJJ is the same but the way they teach, the discipline, the way a student progresses (basic guard escapes, etc) They do NOT study kicks, strikes as a "standard from the start". But yes, it depends on the sensei.
@pcjudosambo That's funny, That's not what Royce taught me in the late nineties when I was his student 6 days a week. I also watched the video and you've misquoted it horribly. This is how you argue though so I'm getting used to the fact that you're just a waste of time who will imagine the things he wants to imagine are true to support his point. Listen to the interview again. This time don't make shit up in your head when you do.
@MrMZaccone go to any Judo school, pay them 100 bucks and ask them to teach you self-defense ONLY (not sport side of the art). Women, kids and anyone else in between ALL THE TIME. The dojo where my nephew learns, there's a self-defense Sambo program where they teach knife defense, etc and attacks as well. But the video did say by Royce himself "GJJ and BJJ is the same, the difference is teaching style". Can't argue that fact ... and BJJ (based on what you mentioned is Kodokan Judo).
@MrMZaccone also make a note, GJJ guys study self-defense BUT that's don't in Judo & Sambo as well. Any takedown, any submission even for a white belt is and can be used as a self-defense. So if Gracie states that GJJ is self-defense, so is Judo, so is Karate, so is Wrestling, Aikido, ANYTHING and ANY art can be uses as a self-defense.
@pcjudosambo Stray from the original point much? To get back to the point, Kodokan Judo and GJJ are not the same thing. One derived from the other but different. Watch the video again and listen to Royce try to explain about "kata" and "sequence" In GJJ. Know what he's talking about? I do. Go ahead, keep quote mining a three minute interview with a guy who was my instructor six days a week. Now go study some BJJ (or GJJ) for long enough that you know what you're talking about.
@pcjudosambo The fact is that even the online curriculum at Gracie University teaches exactly what I've outlined so go ahead and keep making your argument from ignorance. GJJ and Kodokan Judo are based in many of the same techniques but there are also huge differences. You can call them the same thing all you want, it doesn't make it true. I've cited facts that you can easily examine. You've cited specious bullshit without documentation. learn to argue or quit wasting my time.
@MrMZaccone I just provided an interview with Gracie stating the difference between GJJ & BJJ is only the teaching method.
Also, I guess every BJJ coach I spoke to (that represents Mochado's & Gracies) forgot to teach their students knife & gun skills at the beginning.
P.S. visit this "Gracie Combatives® blue belt requirements" for Gracie JJ is nothing more than basic takedowns (hip throws, etc) triangle chokes and arm bars (stuff any BJJ/Judoka learns) applied against attackers.
@pcjudosambo You did no such thing. Find the word "only" in that interview and then when you can't ... quit making shit up. While you're at it remember that english is not Royce's first language and you are going to have to listen for a whole lot longer than 3 minutes to get what he's saying. You might even have to study with him to understand it like I have and YOU HAVEN'T.
@pcjudosambo I'm blaming it on you making shit up. Read the fucking post. Watch the fucking vid you insist on misquoting and then go take your medication and stop hallucinating.
@pcjudosambo I never claimed there were knife and gun skills "at the beginning", where do you get this shit? I know what the GJJ Combatives requirements for blue belt are and they are certainly more than you cite. Go read it again. You've completely left out the defensive positional techniques that are NOT found in Kodokan Judo. Once again the word "ONLY" WAS NEVER USED BY ROYCE!!! I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
@MrMZaccone i bet you believe WWE is real, dont you? A basic self-defense Karate class where 50 year old women practice self-defense similar to the stuff you say ... so now they're GJJ practitioners? Grow up and watch the video of Royce telling the world that GJJ is same as BJJ but the teaching method is different. I got 4 PM's stating that you're high as a kite. Go back to your bed and turn off the computer, you don't deserve using it ... oh and hand in your white belt with 101 stripes as well.
@pcjudosambo Nice job trolling, Especially from a guy Who has admitted that he's never studied BJJ of any kind. You know two things, nothing and shit.
@MrMZaccone copied and pasted from the web site of self-defense (not jiujitsu) blue belt requirements from Royce:
Dropping in base (page 20)
Maintaining your base ( page 22)
Two-handed front choke (page 28)
Learning to fall backward, side, etc
Forward roll (page 36)
Hip throw (page 40)
Choke from behind (page 42)
no hip throw?? (pg 40). All of these things are learned in basic and sport Judo. The sad part about the whole thing is ... I've proven you wrong and I don't even practice BJJ. SAD!
@pcjudosambo Once again, not the official source. There's a reason he calls it "Royce Gracie jiu-jitsu" and not just "Gracie Jiu-jitsu" any idea what that reason is? You've proven nothing as you've cited the wrong material. I'll repeat it AGAIN! There is no hip throw in the "Gracie Combaitves" which is the official academy standard for blue belt.
@pcjudosambo BTW there is no "hip throw" in the Gracie combatives course at all so you're just making shit up again. However, you will find many techniques that are not taught in Kodokan Judo. Would you like me to name them and where they are found in the combatives course?
@MrMZaccone also moron, GJJ has 2 different blue belt requirements (blue belt in self-defense) and blue belt in jiujitsu (eg. how to tie a belt, how to roll on the matt, how to jump and down, how to do safe-falls...)
@pcjudosambo Try checking the requirements for GJJ at the Academy in Torrance, the oficial source. You'll find ONE standard not two and you'll find it completely different from Royce's standard. That said, it's COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the original point and you've repeatedly and deliberately changed the subject. In addition, without actually seeing these techniques how do you know what's beign taught? YOU DON'T! Original subject KJ and GJJ are different. get back to it or get over it.
@MrMZaccone im not going to waste my time on you because i've showed you the video where Royce states that GJJ and BJJ is the same thing. I've showed you a link to his book where he explains the techniques to his GJJ self-defense blue belts (such as forward roll, back roll, hip throw stuff every BJJ & Judoka learns). If you don't believe me, that's fine, that's your choice. But I do know that you must be pretty angry with yourself that I know a bit more about this than you and I'm not a bjj guy.
@pcjudosambo I'm going to try this one more time on the off chance that you're not completely delusional. In the video you cited, Royce says no such thing even though you continue to insist for some reason that he does. Royce's book is completely irrelevant to the discussion because it's not the official standard of GJJ nor does it have anything to do with Kodokan Judo. Quit trolling and go train someplace.
@pcjudosambo By the way. Your math analogy is flawed. While addition is ineed commutative subtraction is certainly not. Nor is the answer the same when grouping terms differently. (3 x 2) + 4 for instance is 10 while 3 ( 2 + 4) is 18. To expand your analogy, perhaps the Gracies just group their terms differently. I hesitate to expand on so completely suspect an analogy but it was your silly example so have fun with that.
@MrMZaccone in addition (second grade math) order of operators does not change the final answer. Meaning, 3+2 is same as 2+3. Why did you include ( ) ??? Of course it changes everything ... what's next including FOIL method? Or exponents? The idea behind 2+3 and 3+2 is that in basic arithmetic statements that involves 2 numbers and addition it does not matter which order you put 2 #'s . This can be applied to Gracie JJ vs Judo/Sambo .. techniques are same but teaching method is different.
@pcjudosambo My point is that your analogy is not "analogous" and it's not. Fuck math, we're talking about Jiu-jitsu. If you want to continue this nonsense you must first establish a commutative property of martial arts ... good luck with that! ROFLMAO!!! While you're at it, ADDRESS THE OTHER HALF AND THE MORE IMPORTANT HALF OF MY POINT.
@fairplaynow Mitsuyo meada tought the gracies judo combined with jjj. He did not study judo until he was 18. Before that he studied ten shin shinyo-ryu jiu jitsu. Before he ever met the gracies he fought in challenge fights and relised that some of the techniques that were discarded by the kodokan were effective in real fights. Judo plus these techniques is what was tought to the gracies.
Your analogy is flawed. Martial arts like Jiu-jitsu, Judo and Jujutsu (which is merely the same word as Jiu-jitsu translated using a different convention of romanization) are not limited by the same constraints as genuine familial relationships. Trying to imply what would be implied by the term "father" or for that matter "brother" would be a mistake and not really indiciative of reality.
Just learn judo!!! Its way cheaper then bjj!
judorican973 1 month ago
@judorican973 In Brazil they cost the same. And here most jujutsukas are judokas as well and vice versa. No hate, it's all grappling takedowns and ground work. Respect.
igorsevero 2 weeks ago
It's interesting to note that almost none of this demo includes groundfighting.
rinpoche1 9 months ago
WTF 0:44 ???
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo It's someone walking past the camera and all you can see is the shape of his hair. At first glance it does look like some sort of animal or something running past the camera doesn't it?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone looks like a rabbit or something :-)
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Watch again, it's just the top of someone's head. While you're at it how about resonding to my contention concerning differences between GJJ and Judo. Or, are you just a troll?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone The Gracies learned Judo from a Kodokan Judoka (yes Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Member). He taught the true, traditional art of Judo before it became more of a Sport. Many eastern European and many if not all Japanese judo clubs retained that traditional atmosphere where all aspects of Judo are learned just like Mitsuyo Maeda taught to Gracies. So you have not answered the most important question: How is GJJ different from traditional Kodokan Judo in terms of technique?
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Try reading the posts again. You must have missed it. Or do you need me to copy and paste it?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrMZaccone copy and paste it
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Show me a defensive clinch used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a "punch block" bottom guard, side control or mount used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a defensive sag used in Kodokan Judo (it is in fact discouraged). Show me kicks and punches used as ranging weapons in Kodokan Judo and practiced outside kata. These are things taught to Gracie beginners. Don't just make claims, I want links to video or detailed instruction. If you can't find it (and you can't) there's your difference.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
Comment removed
CyBeRTRoNFLuX 1 year ago
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX
On the streets or anywhere else, believe me, you will not want to be on the ground with a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu fighter.
jitsubr 1 year ago 5
@jitsubr of course because everyone on the the street knows bjj how many bjj guys have been knocked no one evers makes a comment you know why they wont admit to that
sonnych69 1 year ago
Comment removed
CyBeRTRoNFLuX 11 months ago
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX
The thing about this upload is I only counted 2 occasions where the defender (Helio) ended up on the ground. Those were in relation to headlock escapes, which proved to be pretty effective. As a Law Enforcement professional, I would rate these headlock escapes as very effective, IF your going to try one at all (your only seconds away from unconsciousness and possible death).
This is the best exhibition of Jiu-Jitsu AS A SELF DEFENCE ART. But that just my opinion.
2Richmond 11 months ago
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX The ground is not where you want to be, but it's not always up to you, what happens when a big guy tackles you?? Are you going to say "hey, I don't want to be on the ground, let's fight on our feet instead"? The truth is, on the street, you don't want a fight period, knowing how to fight on the feet or the ground is better than staying ignorant.
RightWingCon81 9 months ago
Comment removed
CyBeRTRoNFLuX 9 months ago
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX WHen have you ever heard ANYONE say you should PULL GUARD in a street fight? My instructor is a BB under Royler and he tells us THIS IS NOT FOR THE STREET, pulling guard is for competition or the mat. And your comments about not having stand up like judo is pure IGNORANCE and also BLINDNESS did you not see the video? I mean the video you're here commenting on. THe onewith all the stand up? GRacie self defense never EVER shows pulling guard, they show MAINLY stand up.
RightWingCon81 9 months ago
Comment removed
CyBeRTRoNFLuX 9 months ago
@CyBeRTRoNFLuX Are you retarded? Or are you just pretending? "this bbj stuff has no standup whatsoever, unlike judo.." YOUR WORDS< here we see takedowns, not just that, your quote above shows you see judo as a legit self defense art, yet EVERYTHING in this vid and in the Gracie self defense moves is JUDO BASED! In a tournament people activly grab your lapels and resist, and you can throw them, JUST LIKE A REAL FIGHT, it works, it worked for Royce in the 90s and still works today.
RightWingCon81 9 months ago
AWESOME FOOTAGE
SuperMetalhead63 1 year ago
0:44 RAT RACE" kkpokopkdopdkdopk
grande mestre helio. obrigado"
skatevandalpala 2 years ago
Because of my job I deal with alot of fights on the "street" the only thing I've ever done is jiujitsu ,but I train and compete alot so the fight hardly ever even makes it to the ground.
kneeknott 2 years ago
Jitsubr tem razão
laranjaworm 2 years ago
Pero si eso es JUDOOOOO..!!!!
juan83ar 2 years ago
Sim, o judo veio do jiu jitsu e mais tarde os brasileiros aperfeiçoaram o chão, criando o Gracie Jiu Jitsu, depois chamado de Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Portanto, jiu jitsu e judo são artes irmãs.
E esse trecho da demonstração de defesa pessoal do Mestre Hélio é mesmo só de quedas e luta em pé.
jitsubr 2 years ago
you said "Portanto, jiu jitsu e judo são artes irmãs." which means they are "brother arts" I´m sorry but I have to correct you because that´s not the relaitionship betwen each other. Gjj comes from judo and judo in its turn come from jujutsu. therefore gjj is an offspring from judo. so the relationship is that of Father (judo) Son (Gjj) and you cannot be brother to your Father
fairplaynow 2 years ago
Você está errado. Gracie Jiu Jitsu é arte filha da luta japonesa jujitsu e não do esporte judo. O objetivo do BJJ é finalizar o oponente e não aplicar uma bela queda ou segurar o oponente no chão por alguns segundos, o que não possui sentido algum em um combate real. Embora Conde Koma viesse de Jigoro Kano, o que ele ensinou e praticou no Brasil não foi judo, mas Jujitsu. O BJJ não nasceu de um esporte, mas sim de uma arte marcial e então se tornou a arte mais eficiente do mundo.
jitsubr 2 years ago
No Você está errado!!! HELIO GRACIE himself states in his last interview "So what i began to do by watching and observing This JUDO was create a jiujitsu I could practice" (Helio gracie tv special part 1, min 5:35) look for it is in portuguese. Now sime facts. 1.Judo was born from a martial: JUJUTSU. The japanese also had ground specialists: Kosen judo. 3. nowadays both Judo and Gjj are sports. 4. the difference between the two is only the emphasis Gjj is Judo specilized on groun technics
fairplaynow 2 years ago
Judo é a parte esportiva do jujutsu, criada por Jigoro pra levá-la aos meios acadêmicos. Mitsuyo Mayeda não ensinava e nem praticava o judo no Brasil, mas sim o jujutsu, com ênfase na defesa pessoal, no combate entre diferentes artes marciais e na luta de solo. Embora ele fosse também um representante do judo, não foi isso que ensinou aos Gracie. E, embora o jiu jitsu brasileiro seja tbm um esporte, ele tem como base a luta real, por isso os maiores lutadores de MMA são do BJJ.
jitsubr 2 years ago
your are denying yourself to see the facts, maeda was a longlife judoka, his experience as jujutsuka was irrelevant or simply non-existent. The point is bjj comes from Judo, HELIO himself says that!!! thats in the documentary I wrote in my prevoius post!!!
As for mma, it is true bjj was very revolutionary, but today you have to be well rounded, it is not enough with bjj only. Strong takedowns and strikes are a must and finally Fedor emelianenko (the best one) has never trained bjj
fairplaynow 2 years ago
And by the way: Street is not a mma cage or ring, people gets raped, assailed, shot, stabbed, kidnapped and so on in the streets. The least interesting thing for an assailant is to compare his skills with yours he is is not in some tournament. Would you "pull the guard" when some guy is threatening you with a knife and another snatching your belongings away from you? Would you do that when assailed in a favela? Idont think so. Each context defines what is logical an sane to do
fairplaynow 2 years ago 2
hahahahahahhaahhahahaha
jitsubr 2 years ago
@fairplaynow WELL ITS STILL AN ADVANTAGE TO KNOW MMA
2submit 1 year ago
Comment removed
CyBeRTRoNFLuX 11 months ago
Fedor did train Judo and, Sambo, which was greatly influenced by Judo. BJJ came from Judo, so the techniques that Fedor uses are familiar with many of the top BJJ instructors.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
@fairplaynow That's why he got beat by Werdum.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
GJJ is not a sport. BJJ is. There is a difference and that difference is greater the closer you get to Helio as a teacher.
MrMZaccone 2 years ago
@MrMZaccone GJJ is pre-Olympic Kodokan Judo
BJJ is modified just like Sport Judo (more technique allowed and different rules). Of course, both can be used for self-defense because they are so much alike.
Judo is left of grappling arts while BJJ is the right ... the middle is Sambo, it allows ALL of what BJJ & Judo offers (even chokes for freestyle Sambo or Combat Sambo), so train Sambo :-)
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo GJJ in its current form is certainly not Kodokan Judo of any era. The catalog of techniques is similar but the tactical and strategic application is drastically different. How much GJJ have you studied and with whom? Where I studied, ANYTHING was allowed in the right context so I don't know what you're talking about. BJJ is GJJ modified for sport while GJJ is derived from Judo and modified for application against more modern and westernized methodologies.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone how is tactical and strategic application differs from of Kodokan Judo? Defense against knife? Defense against pistol? Remember, 2+3 is the same as 3+2 ... different variations yield same results. I never studied BJJ but I've been to several dozen competitions. I've also seen GJJ demos done by top level Gracie students... how is GJJ modified? Maybe teaching method, yes but the techniques definitely no. So I don't understand how GJJ is a modified version of Kodokan Judo.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Show me a defensive clinch used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a "punch block" bottom guard, side control or mount used in Kodokan Judo. Show me a defensive sag used in Kodokan Judo (it is in fact discouraged). Show me kicks and punches used as ranging weapons in Kodokan Judo and practiced outside kata. These are things taught to Gracie beginners. Don't just make claims, I want links to video or detailed instruction. If you can't find it (and you can't) there's your difference.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone Judo became the standard attacking and defense art by the Japanese military and police (and others around the world as well) after a competition between Judo & Jujutsu (Judo won). First of all, for all students, kata is learned to apply in life (not for show) as taught by Kano. Second of all self-defense kata is learned by students of all ages, third of all here is what's learned by the police since day 1: Kodokan Goshin Jutsu & Renkoho Waza. Yeah, this is taught to GJJ beginners?
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Completely non-responsive to my post. I have twice provided you with techniques taught to Gracie beginners that are no where in the Kodokan Judo. Get over it, they're two different things. GJJ is based on Kokokan Judo, certainly. It also contains elements of freestyle wrestling and striking NOT found in Kodokan Judo. In addition there are techniques and tactics unique to GJJ that I have already listed. What is it you don't understand about this?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone man oh man, you're just stating this to make your point valid but even you know that it's not valid. It's ok though, if you can sleep better at night knowing you tried to make a valid point, good by me. It's just funny how all GJJ blue belts that I've met, my nephew fought with, visited web sites of their schools DO NOT TRAIN the things you mentioned (kicking, punching). I think you're confusing GJJ with MMA. But it's OK, you tried to make a valid point, good try though. Thumbs UP!
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo My point is valid. I've studied with Royce, Rorion, Relson, Ryron, Rener, and back in the day, Helio Gracie. I know what they teach. You on the other hand have admitted that you've never even studied BJJ so If the blue belts you've met aren't learning these things, I don't know where they're studying but they need to either find someplace better or ask better questions in class. Having said that, I'll admit not all instructors are created equal, even ones named Gracie but ...
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone ok, i saved the best for last my friend. Watch this video of Royce Gracie himself stating the difference between GJJ and BJJ. In the video, he states that the ONLY difference is the teaching method (NOT THE TECHNIQUES). He admits that GJJ and BJJ is the same but the way they teach, the discipline, the way a student progresses (basic guard escapes, etc) They do NOT study kicks, strikes as a "standard from the start". But yes, it depends on the sensei.
watch?v=f6jnoSbEKfw
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo That's funny, That's not what Royce taught me in the late nineties when I was his student 6 days a week. I also watched the video and you've misquoted it horribly. This is how you argue though so I'm getting used to the fact that you're just a waste of time who will imagine the things he wants to imagine are true to support his point. Listen to the interview again. This time don't make shit up in your head when you do.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone go to any Judo school, pay them 100 bucks and ask them to teach you self-defense ONLY (not sport side of the art). Women, kids and anyone else in between ALL THE TIME. The dojo where my nephew learns, there's a self-defense Sambo program where they teach knife defense, etc and attacks as well. But the video did say by Royce himself "GJJ and BJJ is the same, the difference is teaching style". Can't argue that fact ... and BJJ (based on what you mentioned is Kodokan Judo).
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone also make a note, GJJ guys study self-defense BUT that's don't in Judo & Sambo as well. Any takedown, any submission even for a white belt is and can be used as a self-defense. So if Gracie states that GJJ is self-defense, so is Judo, so is Karate, so is Wrestling, Aikido, ANYTHING and ANY art can be uses as a self-defense.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Stray from the original point much? To get back to the point, Kodokan Judo and GJJ are not the same thing. One derived from the other but different. Watch the video again and listen to Royce try to explain about "kata" and "sequence" In GJJ. Know what he's talking about? I do. Go ahead, keep quote mining a three minute interview with a guy who was my instructor six days a week. Now go study some BJJ (or GJJ) for long enough that you know what you're talking about.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo The fact is that even the online curriculum at Gracie University teaches exactly what I've outlined so go ahead and keep making your argument from ignorance. GJJ and Kodokan Judo are based in many of the same techniques but there are also huge differences. You can call them the same thing all you want, it doesn't make it true. I've cited facts that you can easily examine. You've cited specious bullshit without documentation. learn to argue or quit wasting my time.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone I just provided an interview with Gracie stating the difference between GJJ & BJJ is only the teaching method.
Also, I guess every BJJ coach I spoke to (that represents Mochado's & Gracies) forgot to teach their students knife & gun skills at the beginning.
P.S. visit this "Gracie Combatives® blue belt requirements" for Gracie JJ is nothing more than basic takedowns (hip throws, etc) triangle chokes and arm bars (stuff any BJJ/Judoka learns) applied against attackers.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo You did no such thing. Find the word "only" in that interview and then when you can't ... quit making shit up. While you're at it remember that english is not Royce's first language and you are going to have to listen for a whole lot longer than 3 minutes to get what he's saying. You might even have to study with him to understand it like I have and YOU HAVEN'T.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone oh yeah so blame it on his english now..
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo I'm blaming it on you making shit up. Read the fucking post. Watch the fucking vid you insist on misquoting and then go take your medication and stop hallucinating.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo I never claimed there were knife and gun skills "at the beginning", where do you get this shit? I know what the GJJ Combatives requirements for blue belt are and they are certainly more than you cite. Go read it again. You've completely left out the defensive positional techniques that are NOT found in Kodokan Judo. Once again the word "ONLY" WAS NEVER USED BY ROYCE!!! I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone i bet you believe WWE is real, dont you? A basic self-defense Karate class where 50 year old women practice self-defense similar to the stuff you say ... so now they're GJJ practitioners? Grow up and watch the video of Royce telling the world that GJJ is same as BJJ but the teaching method is different. I got 4 PM's stating that you're high as a kite. Go back to your bed and turn off the computer, you don't deserve using it ... oh and hand in your white belt with 101 stripes as well.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Nice job trolling, Especially from a guy Who has admitted that he's never studied BJJ of any kind. You know two things, nothing and shit.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone copied and pasted from the web site of self-defense (not jiujitsu) blue belt requirements from Royce:
Dropping in base (page 20)
Maintaining your base ( page 22)
Two-handed front choke (page 28)
Learning to fall backward, side, etc
Forward roll (page 36)
Hip throw (page 40)
Choke from behind (page 42)
no hip throw?? (pg 40). All of these things are learned in basic and sport Judo. The sad part about the whole thing is ... I've proven you wrong and I don't even practice BJJ. SAD!
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Once again, not the official source. There's a reason he calls it "Royce Gracie jiu-jitsu" and not just "Gracie Jiu-jitsu" any idea what that reason is? You've proven nothing as you've cited the wrong material. I'll repeat it AGAIN! There is no hip throw in the "Gracie Combaitves" which is the official academy standard for blue belt.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo What the fuck are you talking about??? I'd laugh if it weren't evident that you're mentally ill.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo BTW there is no "hip throw" in the Gracie combatives course at all so you're just making shit up again. However, you will find many techniques that are not taught in Kodokan Judo. Would you like me to name them and where they are found in the combatives course?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone also moron, GJJ has 2 different blue belt requirements (blue belt in self-defense) and blue belt in jiujitsu (eg. how to tie a belt, how to roll on the matt, how to jump and down, how to do safe-falls...)
type this up without spaces
spartanbjj . com / bluebelt.pdf
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo Try checking the requirements for GJJ at the Academy in Torrance, the oficial source. You'll find ONE standard not two and you'll find it completely different from Royce's standard. That said, it's COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the original point and you've repeatedly and deliberately changed the subject. In addition, without actually seeing these techniques how do you know what's beign taught? YOU DON'T! Original subject KJ and GJJ are different. get back to it or get over it.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone im not going to waste my time on you because i've showed you the video where Royce states that GJJ and BJJ is the same thing. I've showed you a link to his book where he explains the techniques to his GJJ self-defense blue belts (such as forward roll, back roll, hip throw stuff every BJJ & Judoka learns). If you don't believe me, that's fine, that's your choice. But I do know that you must be pretty angry with yourself that I know a bit more about this than you and I'm not a bjj guy.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo I'm going to try this one more time on the off chance that you're not completely delusional. In the video you cited, Royce says no such thing even though you continue to insist for some reason that he does. Royce's book is completely irrelevant to the discussion because it's not the official standard of GJJ nor does it have anything to do with Kodokan Judo. Quit trolling and go train someplace.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo By the way. Your math analogy is flawed. While addition is ineed commutative subtraction is certainly not. Nor is the answer the same when grouping terms differently. (3 x 2) + 4 for instance is 10 while 3 ( 2 + 4) is 18. To expand your analogy, perhaps the Gracies just group their terms differently. I hesitate to expand on so completely suspect an analogy but it was your silly example so have fun with that.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone in addition (second grade math) order of operators does not change the final answer. Meaning, 3+2 is same as 2+3. Why did you include ( ) ??? Of course it changes everything ... what's next including FOIL method? Or exponents? The idea behind 2+3 and 3+2 is that in basic arithmetic statements that involves 2 numbers and addition it does not matter which order you put 2 #'s . This can be applied to Gracie JJ vs Judo/Sambo .. techniques are same but teaching method is different.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo My point is that your analogy is not "analogous" and it's not. Fuck math, we're talking about Jiu-jitsu. If you want to continue this nonsense you must first establish a commutative property of martial arts ... good luck with that! ROFLMAO!!! While you're at it, ADDRESS THE OTHER HALF AND THE MORE IMPORTANT HALF OF MY POINT.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@fairplaynow Mitsuyo meada tought the gracies judo combined with jjj. He did not study judo until he was 18. Before that he studied ten shin shinyo-ryu jiu jitsu. Before he ever met the gracies he fought in challenge fights and relised that some of the techniques that were discarded by the kodokan were effective in real fights. Judo plus these techniques is what was tought to the gracies.
charliemurphyslaw 1 year ago
Your analogy is flawed. Martial arts like Jiu-jitsu, Judo and Jujutsu (which is merely the same word as Jiu-jitsu translated using a different convention of romanization) are not limited by the same constraints as genuine familial relationships. Trying to imply what would be implied by the term "father" or for that matter "brother" would be a mistake and not really indiciative of reality.
MrMZaccone 2 years ago
Most of this is plain Judo.
Hotora86 2 years ago
Judo chop these balls!
dmullen671 2 years ago
@Hotora86 No ... it's not.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
Valeu, imagens do Mestre dos Mestres!!! Helio Gracie foi eh e sera o mais grande Mestre!!!
malandrojiujitsu 3 years ago
Parabens amigos, e tambem muito obrigado por compatir uma reliquia como o video, GJJ # 1
chalio33 3 years ago
Histórico!
jitsubr 3 years ago