Enlightenment Maps and Models ~ Shinzen Young

[sbma5833]

As much as i like Shinzen's teachings, he tends to be utopian and idealistic about the future. He suggests that we don't know much about enlightenment yet and that the maps out there aren't that good. Where he gets it wrong is to say that this situation will change. With any new emerging maps in the future, one could raise exactly the objections he is raising now. Face it:the maps we have now are not going to get any better or worse. They will just evolve. Evolution=change, not improvement.

[greenrate]

Here's maybe a better question to ask: will it ever be possible to FORCE people to be enlightened?

If the answer is "no" . . . what then?

Let's say you come up with a really "scientific" map, model, & method for enlightenment.

So what?

What if someone doesn't WANT to be enlightened? What if MOST people don't want it? What if ALMOST EVERYONE doesn't want it?

My own best guess: you'll get a lot more enlightenment science . . . but you won't get a lot more enlightenment.

[empty0grace]

Based on 40+ years of practice, I agree with everything he says here. In my experience the "fundamentalism trap" is the most dangerous of all, maybe because I spent 10 years caught in it as a result of "classical enlightenment" experience born of deep Mahasi style satipatthana practice. I also discovered as a point of interest that the application of self inquiry to higher levels of insight/mindfulness will quickly cure the "observer trap." I have made a video on this topic. with Metta, Daniel

[malt1618]

The best maps that I've found most beneficial to my own practice, and the most accessible, yet detailed, are those elucidated in Danial Ingram's book, which can be found for free in electronic form here:

interactivebuddha (dot) com/mctb.shtml

""Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha"

[xelatcrashes]

Perhaps the best map of all is the collection of all maps, taken together. But then this map must be in that collection and you have something of a contradiction . . . Russell's paradox applied to enlightenment.

[JAYDUBYAH29]

beuatiful, pragmatic, humble, intelligent, honest talk - thank you shinzen!

[powergirl901]

I have lived in a Shinzen world since the early 1990's, and it is finally so nice to see him strutting his stuff.

[sidthinker]

he is just too damm cute for words. i love you shinzen :)

[thespaceshipmartini]

What about the integral model / AQAL map? I find it most fascinating and would be curious to hear his comments.