displacement

[ReliableInsider]

After I got Ralph what's his name out of my head . . .

So you're saying that just because Monsanto is a merchant of death, they shouldn't be in charge of everything? Hmmm.

[ReliableInsider]

It's true. Ironically, by running against the Democrats, with help from Fox News and various conservative political consultants, Ralph whats-his-name put George W. Bush in office.

This is the danger of a third party in a two-party system. If it does well but doesn't win the election, it may be handing the victory to its political opponents.

[pennilesscripple]

ha! i'm psychic.

i saw that you had left a comment on this video, then i went to get a drink of water, and i thought that this would be your comment.

i posted it because of what he said, not because  of any political affiliation. still it could be easily argued he'd be a better choice than what we have now, as would pee-wee herman. and he reminds people that of the flaws in our electoral process by holding it accountable. *and* the neocons put gwb in office through trickery and theft.

[FunToRelate]

25 years ago, when I was young and idealistic, Ralph Nadar was like a god. I worshipped his brand of common sense and practicality. After siphoning off 3 million votes that probably would have gone towards the left in a presidential election, I don't know who he is any more.

[pennilesscripple]

aw sorry to pick at that scab, ftr :(

yeah i was out of the country when that all came down but i know he lost a lot of good will with that fiasco

[PositivelyPrimitive]

I watched a fave video at Dario's channel about a tribe, how they live in the forest every day, so happy in their life. It made me wonder if we could ever be satisfied with that, since we have had so much, too much, our whole lives. To be so few people, so little outside influence? I think when it comes down to it though, true happiness only needs a few people, close, loving, and enough to meet their needs.

[kewpiesbadhairday]

AMEN!

[peas1my1life]

huh!

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Where do we get our computers, I mean when we don't go to chains? Do we have people build them for us? Where do they get the parts?

[pennilesscripple]

we don't need computers

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Why are we using them then?

[pennilesscripple]

because they are part of the culture

right now they are what we have to use to connect and explore and try to amend some of the fragmentation and isolation

but we don't need them

[mistaspot1]

I disagree that we should ever get rid of computers.

[mistaspot1]

One of the criticisms of green anarchism is that it doesn't allow for real creative expression. I think computers are our way of having a kind of control that we don't normally have. It provides a medium for expression. I don't know. Computers aren't products that are good on the environment, so I'm kind of at a quandary, there. Unless we can start creating ecologically friendly computers I think they're kind of a detriment, though. I think anarchy without them would be futile though.

[pennilesscripple]

human beings have always had creative culture

culture happens regardless of the tools of its transmission--don't confuse content with form

people have expressed themselves creatively very well without computers, mista. in fact wendell berry says 'show me something written on a computer that holds a candle to milton, and maybe then i'll be interested in looking at one, but i still won't buy one.' (paraphrasing from memory so i'm sure i've got it all farked up)

[PositivelyPrimitive]

That was one of my concerns about losing materials I currently use as an artist. In fact, most of my work is done on computer now! But even, just pigments, what would I use? I panicked! lol Okay not really, but what you say is true, to express oneself can be done with very simple tools and materials. I'd still miss the computer though.

[pennilesscripple]

i dunno when i'm not around a computer i don't miss it

i might miss people whom i connect to, or yearn for creative enpdeavor, but that's not the computer--that's friends and play....

who were you before there was a computer in your life?

were you less fulfiled?

[pennilesscripple]

well we're back to true costs mista

if you could see the true costs of computers, you might see it differently

[mistaspot1]

Yes, but what would be the problem with having computers if they weren't harmful to the environment? I guess I'm trying to see if your motivation is sustainability or anti-technologicality..

I just made that up, but there wasn't another word to use, and that's the joy of the English language.

[pennilesscripple]

mediated experiences damage our souls in ways we can't even see. i dunno. maybe people can figure out a way to make computers sustainably, but that is in the realm of science fiction. so say somehow that happens and we can figure out a way to use computers that doesn't separate us from our true nature. that's the realm of fantasy.

[pennilesscripple]

i guess it's all possible, just very hard to imagine. and if we were living the way we were born to live, we wouldn't want computers...wouldn't see the need for them.

[mistaspot1]

what do you exactly mean by 'mediated experiences'?

i think technology can co-exist with nature quite peaceably and sustainably. i don't think it's in the realm of fantasy to say that computers would not separate us from our true nature. they enhance our true nature in some ways.

[pennilesscripple]

it's a phrase in common use, so googling it might give you a better definition (i'm a bit weary right now), but it means experiences where there are one or more interfaces between you and the real experience. e.g. watching a nature documentary is a mediated experience of walking in a forest.

[pennilesscripple]

okay so you have to mine the minerals to make the technology. are people going to volunteer to do that? or are you going to coerce them, as is now the way? if so that's not sustainable either for human beings or for resources. have you seen the levels of toxicity discarded electronics add to the environment?

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Where did my other comment go?

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Never mind, found it!

[zzz33333]

This is a great video. With all due respect, I havent eaten McDonalds or Starbucks in 5 years at least, and i've never been to Wal-Mart. I dont buy from big groceries and I dont go to chains and I dont buy unneccessary shit. I've had the same pair of shoes for years. except for those god damn adidas which were a fucking gift from my friend. So? do i sit back and wait for everyone else to follow? It seems very likely, I know.

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Never been in a walmart. wow. well, good! I am curious where do you get your custom t-shirts made though, i'd like ot get some too?

Anne

[8rf]

God dammit, this is a good video.

[HeidiSaid]

You vote everyday with the choices you make... hm,,, R. Nader, is he thinking about running again?(sorry if this has been announced but I have been out of sync & not up to date... and of course no tv...

Vote everyday. Buy gasoline / oil from companies that do not use foreign fuel or better get - don't use it at all. ~peace

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Where would we shop if we had no vehicle? I mean you and I personally, as we are so rural.

Anne

[HeidiSaid]

Got two legs. Horses work well - the Amish use them on the main roads. It can be done. Instead or 'in the meantime' I only drive 1 every 2 week max. I have a friend that drops food now and this past winter I was in for well over 3 weeks due to snow. You can hunt as well. I'm looking forward to my first turkey.

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Seems like I am ALWAYS driving, allergy shots for my daughter, to school, to appointments, orthodontist, dentist, friends, activities. And I only have ONE child! I could probably ride a horse, but the walking with sciatica is out. Also, if my disc is slipped and I can't see a doctor do I just have a treatable pain for the rest of my life, no walking? Big sacrifices, especially as one ages.

[HeidiSaid]

All things to consider... I set up all appointments and such on 1 day. Usually a Tues or Wed. My friends? I'm a hermit so that's not an issue. I suppose living in a community would help you and you would need a padded seat to cushion your disc in the buggy? :)

[PositivelyPrimitive]

It is gradually dawning on me that self-sustainability is for healthy people. I feel guilty for all the things we _need_ and do, but that doesn't get me anywhere. If we made all appointments the same day it would take 9 hours of the day and in two opposite towns 25 miles apart!

[pennilesscripple]

pos it's not an individual, daniel boone type of act

it's a collective act

indigenous cultures have babies, sick people, elderly people, etc.

they all have a place and an opportunity to serve the greater good--unlike in our current society

i hear your frustrations

indigenous cultures are not without medicine

you do your best every day to sit in the question

and i know you are doing that :o)

[pennilesscripple]

some changes are gradual

when i look back over the past five years, i realize that i have made some radical changes. but they came slowly.

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Thanks Penniless. I will try to remind myself of this when I get frustrated. You said it very well, Anne

[pennilesscripple]

thank you, anne :0)

[PositivelyPrimitive]

We have a small partially selfsustaining community started up in the next town over. I could get a one bedroom flat in a 4 family unit for a mere 280,000 dollars. I will start saving my pennies!

[PositivelyPrimitive]

Could I make her school all be on one day? Kids change everything. I know you know this. I feel frusrated at my own devil's advocateness here, but the scenario really changes when one considers poor health and children. Cushioning for the disc. :) Um, yeah. No medicines. yeah? I feel more guilty now~ argggh, Anne

[cloudmonkeys]

i like these 41 second snippets but i'm waiting for your 5 hour technicolor epic,

[pennilesscripple]

heh monkeys that would take resources i don't have....

just tryna work with the 21st century attention span....

[1mcsource]

I put him up there with Zinn. An honest, no BS factual speaker. thx -maxwell

[pennilesscripple]

yeah one of the commenters on this lecture pointed out that we could have had nader in office for the past eight years...the idea made me feel kinda dizzy and sad....

[mistaspot1]

Self-sustainability first, before anything else.

[pennilesscripple]

i would argue that it can all be done simultaneously. like many, i have been working on lessening my impact on the environment for years now. but i'm not going to wait until i get to 'zero footprint,' however that is measured before i take any other action. it's not necessary. the very common argument that if you use (insert product here) you are a hypocrite doesn't see the big picture. we're all hypocrites.

[mistaspot1]

Okay. Agreed. The problem is that these products are available. If they weren't available then they couldn't be used. But if we were to make them unavailable we would have to replace them with something. Something better. And not only that, we have to show people that they are living out of balance with nature. There are too many of us on this Earth.

[pennilesscripple]

we don't need really anything that comes from starbucks, mcdonalds, or walmart. do we? can we replace them with nothing?

yes quinn says 'make tribal success visible.' i think that is a major key to moving forward--modeling, basically. and reminding people of who they are.

yes we are overpopulated. the population problem is a direct result of industrialized civilization. if we address the root of the problem, in time the problem will resolve itself.

[mistaspot1]

heh heh heh. nice. haven't heard from olf ralph lately.

i think if we believe in co-operation co-operation is what we must do. i mean pooling our funds (as a large group), communicating and circumventing banks and economic obstacles. an "organized approach".

[pennilesscripple]

:0) i love how you keep pushing at the hard questions, mista.

[mistaspot1]

gots to. gots to. thanks for appreciating it.

[pennilesscripple]

oh yeah heaps

glad to know there's another soldier in the struggle